PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Anthony on December 28, 2016, 07:54:00 AM
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President Barack Obama added an additional $7.917 trillion to America’s national debt, which amounts to a 68 percent increase from the $11.657 trillion debt level President George W. Bush accrued by the end of his presidency.
While there are several ways to determine a president’s contribution to the U.S. debt, the most accurate figure is achieved by combining the budget deficits from each fiscal year and adding the total amount to whatever the debt level was at when the last president left office.
For example, when President George W. Bush took office the national debt level was at $5.8 trillion. Bush added $5.849 trillion to the national debt. So when President Obama was sworn in, the national debt level was at $11.657 trillion.
We need to close entire Federal agencies, grow the economy, and dig our way out of this mess.
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The one and only thing I can give Obama is he had to deal with a crisis. In 2008 we were staring down a depression. I can't blame the POTUS or Congress for sending us into debt to deal with a crisis. What I don't like is that we're not dealing with a crisis, we're at peace (more or less), and we're still deficit spending. Problem is there is no easy way to address this. Everyone has to pay. Since no one wants to pay our politicians keep kicking the can down the road. Given the big promises made by the POTUS elect during his campaign I expect to see lots more kicking. That guy is clearly comfortable with lots of debt.
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We need to close entire Federal agencies, grow the economy, and dig our way out of this mess.
The waste of the federal government is massive. When going through each agency and looking at waste alone, if just that was eliminated would mean massive savings.
Then take on the federal agencies that are duplicating state agencies. We don't need a department of education or a department of energy. Let the individual states handle education, eliminate the DoE as it actually does nothing, and eliminate the EPA and again turn that over to individual states.
And there are a host of other federal agencies that only duplicating what's being handled at state level.
Once that is under control, go through the federal agencies and review contracts and eliminate the over budget not necessary ones.
Then reign in entitlements and put that at the state levels.
Finally, tie congress, senate and executive pay scales to the national budget. Go over budget and no pay increases. Also drastically cut back congressional benefits and retirement packages. And while we're at it, make sure any bill passed by congress mandates no exemptions for congress.
Term limiting congress would also reduce cost.
That would do more to pay off the national debt than anything else suggested.
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The one and only thing I can give Obama is he had to deal with a crisis. In 2008 we were staring down a depression. I can't blame the POTUS or Congress for sending us into debt to deal with a crisis. What I don't like is that we're not dealing with a crisis, we're at peace (more or less), and we're still deficit spending. Problem is there is no easy way to address this. Everyone has to pay. Since no one wants to pay our politicians keep kicking the can down the road. Given the big promises made by the POTUS elect during his campaign I expect to see lots more kicking. That guy is clearly comfortable with lots of debt.
I hate to break this to you, but we've just been through another depression. In the 30's most didn't have the perspective to call it "The Great Depression" (http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/61931). That came later. Not to mention I dare say the media was more decentralized, and far less (willingly) under the control of the (Democratic) administration, so they were not nearly as willing to hide the ball in their reporting.
In this depression, Obama played the part of Herbert Hoover -- ascending to office on the cusp of a existential challenge, and entirely inadequate to meet the task before him.
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The one and only thing I can give Obama is he had to deal with a crisis. In 2008 we were staring down a depression. I can't blame the POTUS or Congress for sending us into debt to deal with a crisis. What I don't like is that we're not dealing with a crisis, we're at peace (more or less), and we're still deficit spending. Problem is there is no easy way to address this. Everyone has to pay. Since no one wants to pay our politicians keep kicking the can down the road. Given the big promises made by the POTUS elect during his campaign I expect to see lots more kicking. That guy is clearly comfortable with lots of debt.
I see you made the normal liberal mistake. You completely ignore reducing spending one method of dealing with a deficit. You also completely ignore growing the economy. Instead you focus of making people pay more.
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Make a list of all the non-essential people and departments that are shuttered when the government "shuts down" during a budget dispute. Then close that stuff down permanently.
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Make a list of all the non-essential people and departments that are shuttered when the government "shuts down" during a budget dispute. Then close that stuff down permanently.
What none of you clearly understand is that you could send home the entire Executive and Legislative branches, shutter their offices, and pay nothing and we would still be in the red. That's how bad it is. From what I've seen its a toss-up between military spending, Social Security, and Medicare. They seem to be the big drivers in government spending and debt. You can't resolve the debt without doing something about these three, its like trying to bail out an ocean with a teaspoon.
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As always I have trouble with the math at how these things are reported. According to the treasury the national debt at the end of November was $19.948 trillion. If I take the article at its word that Obama started with $11.657 trillion, I remember it being much lower, but I seem to remember some finagling with the numbers. So any way if I do the math, I get $8.291 trillion and the year isn't over.
If I carry it a little further, then I get $10.632 trillion on Jan. 31, 2009, which makes Obama's contribution $9.316 Trillion.
Now some will argue that the first year shouldn't count, but I reject that, it should go from beginning of term to beginning of term, yes there is some overlap, but all in all it evens out.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2016/opds112016.pdf
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2009/opds012009.pdf
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What none of you clearly understand is that you could send home the entire Executive and Legislative branches, shutter their offices, and pay nothing and we would still be in the red. That's how bad it is. From what I've seen its a toss-up between military spending, Social Security, and Medicare. They seem to be the big drivers in government spending and debt. You can't resolve the debt without doing something about these three, its like trying to bail out an ocean with a teaspoon.
This is for 2015 from the CBO:
(https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/images/pubs-images/50xxx/51110-Land_Overall.png)
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/images/pubs-images/50xxx/51110-Land_Overall.png
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I wonder why so many people want to present the debt and deficit as a percentage of the GDP. Why are they trying to hide the actual debt and deficit?
I'd prefer to see the debt and deficit presented as dollars. F the GDP.
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What none of you clearly understand is that you could send home the entire Executive and Legislative branches, shutter their offices, and pay nothing and we would still be in the red. That's how bad it is. From what I've seen its a toss-up between military spending, Social Security, and Medicare. They seem to be the big drivers in government spending and debt. You can't resolve the debt without doing something about these three, its like trying to bail out an ocean with a teaspoon.
General math, accounting and debt management seem difficult for you to understand.
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What none of you clearly understand is that you could send home the entire Executive and Legislative branches, shutter their offices, and pay nothing and we would still be in the red. That's how bad it is. From what I've seen its a toss-up between military spending, Social Security, and Medicare. They seem to be the big drivers in government spending and debt. You can't resolve the debt without doing something about these three, its like trying to bail out an ocean with a teaspoon.
But, but,but what about the lock box :o
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I wonder why so many people want to present the debt and deficit as a percentage of the GDP. Why are they trying to hide the actual debt and deficit?
I'd prefer to see the debt and deficit presented as dollars. F the GDP.
I disagree that the hard number is what is important. A billion dollar debt for a 2 billion dollar economy is not the same as a billion dollars for a trillion dollar economy.
Percentages are a good indicator of the size of the debt. But perhaps expressing the debt as a "per capita" number would be better.
Rounded off, we have a $20T debt compared to roughly 330 Million people. That comes to around $61k for every man, woman and child in the country. A family of four owes ~$240,000. And we all know that not all 330 million of us are contributing to it's payment.
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It hits a little closer to home if you do debt per tax payer. There were about 137,000,000 federal tax payers in 2011, the latest numbers I found. So at $20 trillion that works out to $145,985 per tax payer.
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Debt is the one sure thing that can take down America. The left has known and lived by this for decades. Piling up useless debt, like other presidents has nothing on the Obama policy of handing out trillions in idiotic gifts and grants. The money handed over to the Iranians is an excellent example.
Those things add up and will take down even the strongest economies over time.