Post by: nddons on September 12, 2017, 03:08:33 PM
Any true believers still think that Trump meant what he said on the campaign trail?
https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/12/white-house-well-sign-daca-bill-without-key-demand/
Post by: Anthony on September 14, 2017, 06:00:43 AM
Post by: nddons on September 14, 2017, 08:20:52 AM
I will wait, and see what ultimately happens to pass judgment. If he goes back on his promises, then yes he should be held accountable. I can only guess that he is negotiating some how.I am so fucking sick of getting lied to by politicians. There is literally no reason to delay his promises, unless he never meant them to begin with. Of all his promises, the only thing we got was a conservative Supreme Court justice.
Yes, Congress bears a lot of blame. However I thought the Art of the Deal guy was going to be a lot better at negotiations than what I've seen. He can't even influence recalcitrant Republicans. You do that by either giving them something they want, or threaten their destruction as a politician. He doesn't seem to have tried either. Twitter doesn't count.
Post by: Little Joe on September 14, 2017, 08:37:11 AM
What did Trump really promise those guys?
Post by: Anthony on September 14, 2017, 08:41:17 AM
I am so fucking sick of getting lied to by politicians. There is literally no reason to delay his promises, unless he never meant them to begin with. Of all his promises, the only thing we got was a conservative Supreme Court justice.
Yes, Congress bears a lot of blame. However I thought the Art of the Deal guy was going to be a lot better at negotiations than what I've seen. He can't even influence recalcitrant Republicans. You do that by either giving them something they want, or threaten their destruction as a politician. He doesn't seem to have tried either. Twitter doesn't count.
I am trying to think what leverage the guy has over fellow Republicans in Congress. He can't control if they get voted in, nor out of office, nor offer them leadership positions. If his own party is against him, what can he do? Bully pulpit? I think he's tried that. Maybe during the mid terms. We are f*cked!
Edit: Is Trump "playing" Schumer, and Pelosi?
Quote
But before he officially took to the floor, Schumer bounded into the Senate chamber just after a speech by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and took a minute to converse with a colleague. "Sorry, just got here. Anything new?" Schumer can be heard saying on C-SPAN2's live feed of the Senate, though he's not seen on video. Then: "He likes us! He likes me, anyway," Schumer says with a chuckle.
Schumer is presumably referring to himself and Pelosi, and Trump's apparent affection for them — or one of them, anyway. He continues telling his unseen colleague that the statement he and Pelosi put out about Trump's DACA promise was "exactly accurate." "Here's what I told him," Schumer continues. "I said: 'Mr. President, you're much better off if you can sometimes step right and sometimes step left. If you have to step just in one direction, you're boxed.' He gets that."
http://theweek.com/speedreads/724607/chuck-schumer-caught-hot-mic-basking-trumps-adulation
It looks like they are buying it.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 14, 2017, 10:09:29 AM
IEdit: Is Trump "playing" Schumer, and Pelosi?
I think he is.
Post by: LevelWing on September 14, 2017, 10:55:33 AM
Post by: nddons on September 14, 2017, 11:03:56 AM
Do you guys really believe that he's playing some huge master game to secretly subvert the Democrats? Really?No, I don't. Remember during the primaries when I and many others were trying to remind people that he's a New York liberal? Well, he started saying all the right things and got me to support him. It's not like I had any other choice. And Trump knows that.
Post by: nddons on September 14, 2017, 11:06:46 AM
Seems to me that having soured on Trump, you are now ready to believe Pelosi and Schumer over Trump.No, I'm believing Trump. He said the wall will happen, just not now. Why the fuck not now? HE'S the one that set the 6 months DACA expiration deadline for Congress to do something. No one else.
What did Trump really promise those guys?
I see it as he gave up a bargaining chip for ... nothing in return. Nothing.
Post by: LevelWing on September 14, 2017, 11:08:40 AM
I see it as he gave up a bargaining chip for ... nothing in return. Nothing.Maybe he's a true Republican after all?
Post by: nddons on September 14, 2017, 11:11:25 AM
Maybe he's a true Republican after all?Well played. I agree with you.
Post by: Anthony on September 14, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
Maybe he's a true Republican after all?
Yep. They are masters of giving away the store for a promise never to happen, or not even a promise.
Post by: Anthony on September 14, 2017, 02:19:52 PM
Do you guys really believe that he's playing some huge master game to secretly subvert the Democrats? Really?
My optimism is only eclipsed by my utter naiveté. Ugh.
Post by: Lucifer on September 14, 2017, 02:41:27 PM
No, I'm believing Trump. He said the wall will happen, just not now. Why the fuck not now? HE'S the one that set the 6 months DACA expiration deadline for Congress to do something. No one else.
I see it as he gave up a bargaining chip for ... nothing in return. Nothing.
Here's how I see it. Trump is in a rock and a hard spot. The establishment Republicans are not going to do anything to further his agenda unless it's something they want (such as Gorsuch). The establishment republicans have never had any intention on repealing Obamacare and they have demonstrated that. They really do not want tax reform in regards to what the President wants. And they sure as hell don't want that wall to be built.
I've said it before, Ryan and McConnell are playing a long game. They are convinced if they keep delaying anything in the agenda that it will make Trump look bad and they'll be able to get "one of their own" (either R or D) back in the WH in 2020.
For the Republicans to hold the House and the Senate and be playing this stupid game is beyond the pale. Ryan and McConnell are beholden to their donors and could give a shit less about the people they represent.
Post by: nddons on September 14, 2017, 02:57:35 PM
Here's how I see it. Trump is in a rock and a hard spot. The establishment Republicans are not going to do anything to further his agenda unless it's something they want (such as Gorsuch). The establishment republicans have never had any intention on repealing Obamacare and they have demonstrated that. They really do not want tax reform in regards to what the President wants. And they sure as hell don't want that wall to be built.I agree with what you say completely, but none of this explains Trump's actions. I'm not the only Trump voter who is getting fucking pissed, and sick and tired of the games these people are playing, including Trump.
I've said it before, Ryan and McConnell are playing a long game. They are convinced if they keep delaying anything in the agenda that it will make Trump look bad and they'll be able to get "one of their own" (either R or D) back in the WH in 2020.
For the Republicans to hold the House and the Senate and be playing this stupid game is beyond the pale. Ryan and McConnell are beholden to their donors and could give a shit less about the people they represent.
Post by: Lucifer on September 14, 2017, 03:12:10 PM
I agree with what you say completely, but none of this explains Trump's actions. I'm not the only Trump voter who is getting fucking pissed, and sick and tired of the games these people are playing, including Trump.
I'm going to watch this play out for a bit, it's far from a done deal.
Yes, the gamesmanship of the swamp is bullshit. It's evident that Ryan and McConnell don't believe (or care) just how pissed off the average American is over this bullshit. Their entire focus is on preserving their beloved swamp.
Post by: invflatspin on September 18, 2017, 11:08:43 AM
He was sent there to drain the swamp, but he's being slowly drowned in the swamp he was sent into.
Beltway fever. Remember when it happened to Reagan?
81 - fires ATC for illegal strike: http://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/reagan-fires-11-000-striking-air-traffic-controllers-aug-5-1981-012292
86 - Amnesty for illegals already in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986
Trump has a great deal of will. But like all the other, the 'crats will win out.
Post by: Little Joe on September 19, 2017, 05:09:01 AM
Only because the 'crats understand the theory of "united we stand, divided we fall" and the R's don't.
Trump has a great deal of will. But like all the other, the 'crats will win out.
But Trump does, and that is why he is negotiating with them.