PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: bflynn on May 11, 2018, 11:54:13 AM

Title: War in the Middle East?
Post by: bflynn on May 11, 2018, 11:54:13 AM
I got this question from someone earlier today - here's my take on what's really going on with Iran:

My Friend: ****************************

I wonder if Netanyahu has been coordinating the attack with Trump? It could provide a cover for an attack on Iran's nuclear sites. But, the timing seems off a bit. We'll see.

Israel, Iran move closer to open war after exchanging missile barrages
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/10/israel-iran-closer-war-after-missile-barrages/

Me: ****************************

No, not necessarily. The Left is peeing their pants right now. They have all concluded that Trump must be meaning to attack Iran, that has been the playbook for the past 3-4 administrations. They have no concept that anything else can be done.

If the president follows what he did with North Korea, there will be a "simmer" period followed by us approaching Iran and giving them options to be friendly or be our enemies. He makes it very clear that the survival of their country is in their hands; we would prefer peace and Iran is such a beautiful and historic country. It's destruction and reduction to rubble like Afghanistan or Syria would be tragic for the world. We want to be friends, we want you to be successful and we want us to be successful. Choose peace and there are minor things you have to do. You don't need nuclear weapons, they do not enhance your security, they make you and your beautiful and historic country a target. Can we agree on this and begin the basis of a friendship?

Of course, if they say no, spit on us, kick us out, or take hostages then the US military has a new target. It would be tragic, but when you're confronted with an enemy who is determined to choose war, you cannot prevent it - all you can do is end it as quickly as possible.

So here's one place that Kerry may have really, really stepped in it. Whatever he did, whatever he said, is going to affect how Iran reacts to that overture. Kerry may literally have created a war without knowing it because he didn't know what Trump was doing...and nobody could know or else it wouldn't be effective...or else the President's team doesn't know what Kerry said and because of contradictions, they're not viewed a legitimate or competent..hence a war.

Regardless, my observation is that the president is one to choose force as a last resort, but there are almost always other options.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Number7 on May 11, 2018, 12:23:33 PM
Progressive bed wetters are lost whenever the topic strays from what they have been told to be concerned about.

The average progressive can't find Iran on a map. Those who can cannot verbally describe what the problem is with Iran, who their allies are, or what that means to middle east and world security.

When you try to educate a progressive on the actual facts, not the ones they think they understand because they were told to be concerned, or unconcerned about them, they become angry, dismissive, combative, or bat shit crazy, depending on how indoctrinated they are. The stupidest people I've ever met, with regards to national security concerns are college professors, who simply believe that they are better than the rest of us, and don;t have to actually know what they are pontificating about, so long as their cheering section roots them onward.

The professor who claims to know all about genetics and thinks that entitles him to be our savior on the subject of mmgw, is an excellent example. Stupidity is universal, but it takes a special kind of stupid to be progressive stupid.

Iran is our enemy. IF Donald Trump were to successfully NORK them, it would be a YUGGGEEEE boon to America and our allies.

Imbecile progressives like insane Maxine and idiotic Frederika haven't got the intelligence to understand the first thing about geo-political reality, so they rant and babble like magpies, thinking that the press they get is a benefit to their reelection and bribe taking agendas, instead of making them out to be as stupid as they really are.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Anthony on May 11, 2018, 12:59:14 PM
Like North Korea, and other rogue states, all the Iranians respect is the threat of force.  They do not respect appeasement that Obama/Kerry gave them.  They laughed at us, took our money then did whatever they wanted to do.  Obama was a IDIOT dealing with them.  Trump is signaling, just like Reagan did that he just may be crazy enough to destroy their worthless asses. 
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Number7 on May 11, 2018, 01:02:13 PM
Trump is signaling, just like Reagan did that he just may be crazy enough to destroy their worthless asses.

That would fine with me...
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Little Joe on May 11, 2018, 01:55:51 PM
Can anyone think of any of the crazy, horrible things that the left said Trump would that he has actually done?

Well, maybe something like appointing Gorsuch to the SC was horrible for the Left, but I mean horrible for the US and the world?
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Username on May 11, 2018, 02:19:10 PM
Can anyone think of any of the crazy, horrible things that the left said Trump would that he has actually done?

He banged a porn star and said "pussy" a few years ago.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Number7 on May 11, 2018, 06:42:14 PM
Can anyone think of any of the crazy, horrible things that the left said Trump would that he has actually done?

He refused to lose to hilary even after the rat bag leftists told him he was supposed to and that not doing so would be considered racist.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: bflynn on May 11, 2018, 07:53:04 PM
He banged a porn star and said "pussy" a few years ago.

And the left keeps bringing it up like we're all going to suddenly be shocked at it. 

Left out that he probably banged a Playboy playmate too.  As if that is actually a negative...
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Steingar on May 14, 2018, 08:48:08 AM
The Israelis shot down an Iranian drone.  The Iranians claimed they'd have revenge and tried to get it, but the Israelis give as good as they get and then some.  This tit for tat could easily escalate, but I think the Russians will keep them both in check.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Little Joe on May 14, 2018, 09:55:10 AM
The Israelis shot down an Iranian drone.  The Iranians claimed they'd have revenge and tried to get it, but the Israelis give as good as they get and then some.  This tit for tat could easily escalate, but I think the Russians will keep them both in check.
Just for context, that drone had been weaponized and had crossed into Israeli territory.  Shooting it down was completely justified.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Number7 on May 14, 2018, 08:22:50 PM
Liberals HATE Israel.

They have no fucking clue why they hate Israel. They were just told to hate Israel and they always do what they are told.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: bflynn on May 15, 2018, 05:15:05 AM
Liberals HATE Israel.

They have no fucking clue why they hate Israel. They were just told to hate Israel and they always do what they are told.

My observation, they despise religion because religion has moral rules that regulate behavior and they want to do what they want.  Israel is a country whose identity is tied up in Judaism and they cannot stand that.

And then there are others like Palestinians who have just been raised to hate and want to kill every Israeli and maybe every Jewish person that exists.  I believe the right name for that is genocide.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Steingar on May 15, 2018, 07:07:04 AM
Just for context, that drone had been weaponized and had crossed into Israeli territory.  Shooting it down was completely justified.
Yup, all true.  Doesn't change anything.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Little Joe on May 15, 2018, 07:35:19 AM
Yup, all true.  Doesn't change anything.
Uh, yes it does.

edit:  Actually, it does not change any of the dynamics in the region.  But it does change the spin from your narrative.  It is not just a series of random events spinning out of control.  One side is the aggressor, the other is defending itself and it's right to exist.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 15, 2018, 07:37:17 AM
Arabs hate Israel because in the Arab's view, the Judeo-Christian world stole the glory of the Arab state several thousand years ago. See In the Shade of the Qur'an by Sayyid Qtub.

Liberals hate Israel because they see it as having driven off the rightful residents of a piece of land. And it's all about the underdogs for liberals. That's why they go silent when an underdog misbehaves.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: bflynn on May 15, 2018, 11:32:43 AM
Liberals hate Israel because they see it as having driven off the rightful residents of a piece of land. And it's all about the underdogs for liberals. That's why they go silent when an underdog misbehaves.

On at least 6 occasions, the refugees have had legitimate internationally backed offers to  give them land to settle on.  They have rejected all of them in favor of continuing to seek the genocide of all Jews. 

In 2001, Yassar Arafat told Bill Clinton that he was a great man.  Clinton responded by saying "The hell I am.  I am a colossal failure and you made me one."

One day the Palestinian children will ask their parents "why do we hate Israel" and their parents won't have a reasonable answer.  When those children grow up, then we can have peace.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on May 15, 2018, 02:41:32 PM
I've always thought the problem between US liberals and Israeli people was one of self-determination. If anything - Israel is the poster-child for independent thought and action. And yes - I do know all about their financial subsidies. Which is stranger yet - because liberals are usually all about the underdog, and if there ever was an underdog in the ME it would clearly be the Israeli people.

The 'state of Palestine' is a myth. The Arab sect and mixed band of nomadic people that make up the Palestinians never had a 'homeland'. They are truly the itinerant farmers/herders who move up and down the Levant never staying in one place more than a few months. There has never been a Palestinian king/president, there is no such thing as currency, historical dwellings(nomadic, remember), legacy, or any kind of trappings that people typically associate with a 'statehood'. It wasn't until the establishment of Israel did the Arab/Egyptian/Palestinian 'homeland' become a thing. Israel has offered the olive branch dozens of times, in a dozen different ways to the Arabs who live in the occupied territory, and all the 7th century nut-bags want to do is make bombs, and throw rocks.

Somehow, this has captured the interest of the liberals, and they are fomenting further revolution for people who would be just fine if they accepted the state of Israel, like the rest of the PLANET. But no, according to them Israel does not exist. Jeezalou....
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Number7 on May 15, 2018, 03:25:50 PM
Arabs hate Israel because in the Arab's view, the Judeo-Christian world stole the glory of the Arab state several thousand years ago. See In the Shade of the Qur'an by Sayyid Qtub.

Liberals hate Israel because they see it as having driven off the rightful residents of a piece of land. And it's all about the underdogs for liberals. That's why they go silent when an underdog misbehaves.

I disagree for this reason, the Arabs hate the Jews out of little more than jealousy.

Israel survived and then flourished while many Arabs sat on their asses hating Jews.

The concept of a successful Israel pisses off the Arabs because they could have had that land but didn’t want it until Jews did the work to make those farms productive.

The the Arabs got all pissed off and wanted what they didn’t work for, just like democrats.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: nddons on May 15, 2018, 05:06:52 PM
On at least 6 occasions, the refugees have had legitimate internationally backed offers to  give them land to settle on.  They have rejected all of them in favor of continuing to seek the genocide of all Jews. 

In 2001, Yassar Arafat told Bill Clinton that he was a great man.  Clinton responded by saying "The hell I am.  I am a colossal failure and you made me one."

One day the Palestinian children will ask their parents "why do we hate Israel" and their parents won't have a reasonable answer.  When those children grow up, then we can have peace.
Sorry, but when Palestinian youth are schooled from day one how to be one a
Martyr, I fear that day will never come.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: asechrest on May 15, 2018, 06:22:21 PM
Newsflash - the vast, vast majority of liberals have little opinion on Israel, and certainly don't care enough to hate them. Most of the rest of them like Israel.

The number of liberals who are politically savvy enough to tow some supposed party-line hatred of Israel is minuscule.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Little Joe on May 15, 2018, 06:52:14 PM
Newsflash - the vast, vast majority of liberals have little opinion on Israel, and certainly don't care enough to hate them. Most of the rest of them like Israel.

The number of liberals who are politically savvy enough to tow some supposed party-line hatred of Israel is minuscule.
I don't know about most liberals hating Israel, but Obama sure did, and so did his sycophants.
There is also the scenario where Trump seems to like Israel, and that means the majority of liberals have to at least pretend to hate them.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Rush on May 16, 2018, 06:16:09 AM
Newsflash - the vast, vast majority of liberals have little opinion on Israel, and certainly don't care enough to hate them. Most of the rest of them like Israel.

The number of liberals who are politically savvy enough to tow some supposed party-line hatred of Israel is minuscule.

I hope that is true, just like it is true that most conservatives are not gap toothed hillbillies, but the liberal image of all conservatives is exactly that. This country has split into two camps growing wider apart by the hour, and each camp is painting the other as ever more some made up Face of Evil. The reality is that only a few on each side are ideological fanatics, most don't care much about politics or just blindly swallow their camp's ideas. To the extent liberals hate Israel seems to me just the outcome of the latter: a very skewed media portrayal of Israel as some oppressor of the poor disadvantaged Arabs, a lack of knowledge of their history as I think invflatspin pointed out. If you go back thousands of years you will find the roots of the desert nomads - they were pushed out of the fertile coastal regions by pure OVERPOPULATION (relative to that day's agricultural technology) and evolved into their own culture. This is neither good nor bad, it is just what it is no more no less. But it does result in tension between the descendants of both groups with the nomadic one having no more claim over any particular territory because we are talking about far more than just today's Israel. To say they deserve Israel would be like saying today's descendants of the mid 19th century immigrants fleeing the Irish potato famine deserve property claims in today's state of Ireland. Nuts! The reality is that the best rational choice for these people is to assimilate into the modern construct such as it exists. Those who refuse and choose terrorist "jihad" instead only screw themselves in the process - the Stone Age behavior and morality of that culture, which served them well in harsh desert conditions, will never be tolerated in today's modern world.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Number7 on May 16, 2018, 12:54:55 PM
The nomads are still wanderers. That is their culture, just like stealing everything from electricty to Mercedes is their culture.

They are not there problem. Its the jealous, lazy, Arabs who want whatever the Jews have. The are just like parasitic progressives demanding reparations from people who never owned or mistreated a slave, by people who were never mistreated or owned by a white slaver.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on May 16, 2018, 02:59:46 PM
Newsflash - the vast, vast majority of liberals have little opinion on Israel, and certainly don't care enough to hate them. Most of the rest of them like Israel.

The number of liberals who are politically savvy enough to tow some supposed party-line hatred of Israel is minuscule.

You're prolly right, most libs have marginal opinion on jews, some good, few bad. However, it seems the powerful elite quite often have a hard-on for jews in their ranks. Outside of the entertainment industry, in other professions jews are often marginalized. I've seen it in the medical field, and in science. To whit - JR Oppenheimer. Maybe the smartest man on the planet for a couple years there. More or less saved thousands of US lives in WWII with his bomb work. How did we repay him? Made him a pariah and stabbed him in the back(figuratively). Happens in other areas too, including politics.

(BWT - just a reminder it is 'toe the line' not 'tow'. but we know what you meant)
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Little Joe on May 16, 2018, 03:21:09 PM

(BWT - just a reminder it is 'toe the line' not 'tow'. but we know what you meant)
Thanks, I didn't know that.
http://grammartips.homestead.com/toetheline.html

BTW, it is BTW, not BWT. ;)
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: You Only Live Twice on May 16, 2018, 08:26:51 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gE_I2o2EdvI/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: asechrest on May 17, 2018, 06:41:44 AM
You're prolly right, most libs have marginal opinion on jews, some good, few bad. However, it seems the powerful elite quite often have a hard-on for jews in their ranks. Outside of the entertainment industry, in other professions jews are often marginalized. I've seen it in the medical field, and in science. To whit - JR Oppenheimer. Maybe the smartest man on the planet for a couple years there. More or less saved thousands of US lives in WWII with his bomb work. How did we repay him? Made him a pariah and stabbed him in the back(figuratively). Happens in other areas too, including politics.

(BWT - just a reminder it is 'toe the line' not 'tow'. but we know what you meant)

Ah, I hate it when I find out I've been using the wrong word for a long time! Did that for years with "latter". Thanks for the catch.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Lucifer on June 03, 2018, 06:19:32 AM
Sorry, but when Palestinian youth are schooled from day one how to be one a
Martyr, I fear that day will never come.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798499/Proud-parents-video-fives-dressed-jihadis-storming-Israeli-building.html

Quote
Disturbing footage has emerged of children at nursery school in Gaza dressing up as jihadis and storming an Israeli building.

The children, who are no older than five-years-old, are seen carrying fake rifles, handguns and gas masks.

The young children then take a child dressed in Orthodox Jewish clothing hostage, before pretending to kill an Israeli soldier during the performance at the Al-Hoda nursery.

Their end-of-term production also includes smoke going off in a cardboard building as the young boys children carry out an invasion, placing a sign down which read 'Israel has fallen' in Hebrew and Arabic on the back of a soldier.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: bflynn on June 03, 2018, 10:58:26 AM
Sorry, but when Palestinian youth are schooled from day one how to be one a
Martyr, I fear that day will never come.

Yes, it may take a while. But at some point they will either accomplish their genocide and kill every person in Israel or else they will question why they have a culture built on hate and why they keep rejecting peace. Sooner or later someone is going to question it. 
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 03, 2018, 03:22:05 PM
Yes, it may take a while. But at some point they will either accomplish their genocide and kill every person in Israel or else they will question why they have a culture built on hate and why they keep rejecting peace. Sooner or later someone is going to question it.

This kind of logic is predicated on people with an IQ of greater than about 85. Inbreeding by the muslim families combined with the limited schooling of girls, and the binders of any advanced technology stunt the intellectual advancement of the entire ME islamic, well - I can't really say 'culture'. I guess - tribalism? The Persians many hundreds of years ago were on a roll. Advances in math, astronomy and cellular division were all focused in the Persian community. Then - like a locust, islam ravaged Persia, and destroyed much of the advances made during the western 'dark ages'. Then, if that wasn't enough, the christians came along and burned and sacked what remained.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: bflynn on June 03, 2018, 07:09:49 PM
Inbreeding by the muslim families combined with the limited schooling of girls, and the binders of any advanced technology stunt the intellectual advancement of the entire ME islamic, well - I can't really say 'culture'.

This kind of thinking is indicative of an IQ of about 85.  Do you really think that Muslim families inbreed and that educated women and advanced tech are required for them to want to just live?  Are you seriously that bigoted or is this just throwing off a bunch of insults because you don't want to be bothered to recognize that they are also people?

What I'm saying is that eventually people WILL question why they're doing this.  Maybe it's after we're all dead, but it will come one day. 
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 03, 2018, 08:24:19 PM
This kind of thinking is indicative of an IQ of about 85.  Do you really think that Muslim families inbreed and that educated women and advanced tech are required for them to want to just live?  Are you seriously that bigoted or is this just throwing off a bunch of insults because you don't want to be bothered to recognize that they are also people?

What I'm saying is that eventually people WILL question why they're doing this.  Maybe it's after we're all dead, but it will come one day.

You don't know much about the people of the ME do you? I've been there. I know there is a lot of inbreeding. I also know that an educated or powerful muslim woman is a rarity. Benazir Bhutto is the perfect example. Born to a wealthy and politically powerful family, she was 'allowed' to study, and advance in a very restrictive society. Now, get down to the level of the common folk, it's uncle marrying niece, cousin marrying cousin, and so forth.

I'm sorry if the truth about muslim inbreeding is offensive. Facts sometimes are unpleasant. Quite often, one needs to go outside of the US mainstream media to get the truth. Other countries aren't as scared to write about, and study it.

https://en.europenews.dk/-Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society-78170.html

The general consensus is that IQ rates of muslims are between 11-17% lower than the std dev measure of central tendency, which would be an even 100, based on large(global) population. It's easy enough to see the effects in the lack of advancement even in the most rudimentary needs.  Islamic nations rely on outside help for basically everything except religion.

How can people who are barely able to hold a conversation able to consider their self-awareness? Or question their motives? They are told by some bearded old goober, who probably likes little boys anyway, and that's what they strive for. Make the mullah happy. Burn the Israel flag, whatever it takes.

Go there, see what I've seen. Live like they live for a while. It will be a real experience.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: bflynn on June 04, 2018, 08:17:14 AM
I've been to the Middle East, but we never surfaced.

Inbreeding is a legitimate problem there?  I thought that was only in Kentucky. 

I'm still doubtful, it comes across as a racist rant.  This is the kind of thing they said about blacks in early 20th century to justify why they needed to be separated from the white people.  Not saying you're wrong, more nolo contendere - I'll take it under advisement.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 04, 2018, 09:03:57 AM
I've been to the Middle East, but we never surfaced.

Inbreeding is a legitimate problem there?  I thought that was only in Kentucky. 

I'm still doubtful, it comes across as a racist rant.  This is the kind of thing they said about blacks in early 20th century to justify why they needed to be separated from the white people.  Not saying you're wrong, more nolo contendere - I'll take it under advisement.

Decide it doesn't exist. Be like all the other PC blind people. I didn't say anything about separating from white people, as that would be clearly racist. I can tell you this. Muslims do not fit in around the globe. Everywhere there is a muslim population there is strife, and discontent. They don't get along well with anyone else. Christians get along ok with jews. Hindus get along with Shinto, etc. Most everyone gets along with everyone except - muslims. They are almost literally stuck in the 7th century. I'm sorry again if that's not PC, but jeez, the rest of the planet has moved on - and they are stuck because their leader decided that interbreeding was just fine. We KNOW better! But - muslims will - not - accept - that. And why won't they? Think about it.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Steingar on June 05, 2018, 12:30:37 PM
Says you.  I've had lots of Arab and Muslim students, some American and some recent immigrants.  Sorry, I haven't noticed any obvious deficits.

Funny (I think) story.  I was the outside guy on a recent thesis defense.  I thought it was going to be the ethnology of ants, which sounded really interesting.  Silly me, the young lady had the word "ant" in her title, but it was ethnography of Saudi women.  I have to admit, it threw me for a loop.  I should really read these requests more often.

So I quickly read the thing and attended the exam.  Good to get out of my comfort zone occasionally.  Seemed to have good data collection, be responsive to the established literature in the field and even be making a cogent contribution.  The other faculty thought she'd passed, and I had no reason to object.

My favorite doctoral defense (outside my own students) was a fellow looking at asexual reproduction of newts.  He did all sorts of fun things, including put them on treadmills, I kid you not.  Didn't come to any solid conclusions, but that's how blue sky research turns out sometimes.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: You Only Live Twice on June 05, 2018, 01:02:13 PM
Arab/Muslim society has been around several X more than the USA.

Why don't they have great universities that international students compete to get admitted into?
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 05, 2018, 03:04:54 PM
Says you. 

Nope sez just about anyone who's studied the effects. Too bad you slept through biology, and didn't bother with physiology. I only included one source. There are many, many others, just not typically in the US.

As for your experience with this or that individual, Lack of understanding populations,  and deviations, I'm guessing you also skipped stats too. Sigh,,,,
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 05, 2018, 03:07:32 PM
Arab/Muslim society has been around several X more than the USA.

Why don't they have great universities that international students compete to get admitted into?

C'mon, not just that, muslim centers of population can barely manage sewage, lights, and fresh water. Asking about advanced education is like asking a turtle to play clarinet.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Number7 on June 05, 2018, 05:37:06 PM
I remember a military science instructor reminding the class that the most impressive thing the Muslims contributed to the world was venerial disease.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Steingar on June 06, 2018, 08:30:04 AM
Nope sez just about anyone who's studied the effects. Too bad you slept through biology, and didn't bother with physiology. I only included one source. There are many, many others, just not typically in the US.

As for your experience with this or that individual, Lack of understanding populations,  and deviations, I'm guessing you also skipped stats too. Sigh,,,,

Well, I get to eat crow on this one.  Apparently there is a selection underway here, we appear to be getting the outbred ones, or at least those not suffering inbreeding depression.

What the boy is saying is utterly correct.  Rates of consanguinity in the Arab world are among the highest on Earth, and its compounded by the founder effects operant on tribal societies.  Explains a few things, that's for certain.

I learn something new today.  Thank you.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 06, 2018, 09:56:36 AM
You're not alone. The majority of the developed nations of the planet are wary of mentioning it due to the touchy PC narrative. Another of islams dirty little secrets that will hold them back now for literally centuries. Even if interbreeding were stopped cold today, June 6th 2018, the recessive alleles have made their mark, and done untold genetic damage.

If you want a real study in this, investigate the Ptolemies of Egypt. But - don't bother starting with Wiki to get the low down. One needs to hunt carefully for the truth. Short course; They became a dynasty after Alexander, and interbred themselves into penury, death, and disease.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Jim Logajan on June 06, 2018, 02:00:02 PM
You're not alone. The majority of the developed nations of the planet are wary of mentioning it due to the touchy PC narrative. Another of islams dirty little secrets that will hold them back now for literally centuries. Even if interbreeding were stopped cold today, June 6th 2018, the recessive alleles have made their mark, and done untold genetic damage.

If you want a real study in this, investigate the Ptolemies of Egypt. But - don't bother starting with Wiki to get the low down. One needs to hunt carefully for the truth. Short course; They became a dynasty after Alexander, and interbred themselves into penury, death, and disease.

Higher rates of consanguinity appears to be arabic in tradition, not islamic - at least according to this NIH linked article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2765422/pdf/1742-4755-6-17.pdf (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2765422/pdf/1742-4755-6-17.pdf)
And this one, which suggests arabic tradition in this instance made its way into islamic custom:
http://www.pnas.org/content/107/suppl_1/1779 (http://www.pnas.org/content/107/suppl_1/1779)
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 06, 2018, 02:28:59 PM
That pnas.org article is a good one. I have a small but important critique. The author wants to disassociate the problem of interbreeding and autosomal DNA reinforcement. This is something that bears closer examination, and like he said - there's not a lot out there on this study from western science. Also, the lack of understanding that interbreeding affects the mental acuity, and mental awareness(trying not to use 'IQ') which is IMNSHO a significant factor in the decline of civilized advancement under islam. As for which came first in the downward spiral of interbreeding, the Arabs or the muslims, I don't have an answer. Maybe there is some of each, with an echo chamber reinforcement going on. I would point out again that Persia was on the road to advanced civilization, including medicine(surgery), astronomy, math, and even philosophy before being ravaged by islam. So - to me, there is no doubt that the life of Muhammad and  his womanizing played a role in the sura which governs who may marry. Frankly, the Koran reads like stereo receiver instructions or chicken Kiev recipe to me, but supposedly in the native language it is quite poetic.

I think getting down to simple terms, smart people are also smart enough to find out how to get more out of life. Dumb people seem to be more easily accepting of their lot in life, and don't seek advancement. This may or may not be a function of intelligence, but there seems to be a rather close equivalence to smart = prosperous. I think we can see this in almost any population, including the US. I would go so far as to say this webboard is a petri dish example. Most people here are pretty smart, and most of us have advanced degrees, and most of us are financially well-off, sufficient to own/operate/pilot an airplane. The fact that we are almost universally conservative - well, that's just a given.  8)
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 06, 2018, 06:53:48 PM
Seriously, I didn't see this story when I posted yesterday.

http://www.circleofblue.org/2018/middle-east/tehran-faces-crisis-as-irans-water-supply-runs-low/

Think about this. Is Iran really any kind of threat to the US, or any other nation? Water? That's about as basic as it gets.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Lucifer on June 06, 2018, 07:00:49 PM
Seriously, I didn't see this story when I posted yesterday.

http://www.circleofblue.org/2018/middle-east/tehran-faces-crisis-as-irans-water-supply-runs-low/

Think about this. Is Iran really any kind of threat to the US, or any other nation? Water? That's about as basic as it gets.

 No big deal. Allah will provide for them.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Number7 on June 06, 2018, 07:29:34 PM
The Iranian leadership has tried just about everything to rile other muslin nations against the US and Israel and not been all that successful.

The Iranian citizens are not friendly with their government and it could all blow up i their faces if the water crisis worsens.

You’ll know it started when the international news reports difficulty getting government officials to answer their phones.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: Steingar on June 07, 2018, 05:44:55 AM
As I understand it, the Quran bans marriage between immediate family members, but not between cousins.  Moreover, in heavily tribal societies cousins are the only people with any familiarity.  Marriage between first cousins produces an inbreeding coefficient (the chances that someone will have the same two alleles from a grandparent) of 1/16, or 0.0625.  That similarly means that in every offspring from a first cousin marriage 1/16 of the genome is homozygous.  The is bad for a whole bunch of reasons, not the least of which is that homozygosity for dangerous recessive allele can produce genetic disease.  My reading has suggested that the rate of genetic disease among Arabs is far higher than in the West.  Communicable diseases are inexpensive to treat, but genetic disease is ruinously expensive, as the patient never gets cured and needs continuous treatment throughout their lifetimes.
Title: Re: War in the Middle East?
Post by: invflatspin on June 07, 2018, 06:13:55 AM
that's because somewhere in the prophets history were a couple of cousins. Notwithstanding his pedophilia. When one chooses a spiritual leader who is a pedophile, philanderer, thief and racist, it's a telling tale. Sadly, all that doesn't affect their ability to reproduce.