PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Steingar on June 04, 2018, 06:16:03 PM

Title: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: Steingar on June 04, 2018, 06:16:03 PM
...thus effectively placing himself above the law. All hail Hair Fuerer. No doubt you will all approve and decry any opinions to the contrary to be liberal nonsense.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: You Only Live Twice on June 04, 2018, 06:19:36 PM
So can any president. The Constitution is silent in the matter.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: invflatspin on June 04, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
The constitution is not silent on it. There are specific and clear remedies for 'high crimes and misdemeanors'. They include the indictment by the house, and the trial by the senate. There is no 'pardon' from that. It has been tested twice, and the system works(although neither were found guilty). If there is to be a legal remedy to the investigation of Trump, it will go through the house, and pending indictment, he would be bound for trial by the senate. It's very clear cut. There will be no other remedy except that. If he were removed by force from office, then he would no longer be in position to exercise a pardon.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: You Only Live Twice on June 04, 2018, 06:56:59 PM
The constitution is not silent on it. There are specific and clear remedies for 'high crimes and misdemeanors'. They include the indictment by the house, and the trial by the senate. There is no 'pardon' from that. It has been tested twice, and the system works(although neither were found guilty). If there is to be a legal remedy to the investigation of Trump, it will go through the house, and pending indictment, he would be bound for trial by the senate. It's very clear cut. There will be no other remedy except that. If he were removed by force from office, then he would no longer be in position to exercise a pardon.
That is Impeachment, not criminal indictment.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: invflatspin on June 04, 2018, 07:12:19 PM
There's no such thing as a presidential criminal indictment. It is ONLY an impeachment. Removal and trial for the president can only be done through impeachment. It's very clear. No bill of attainder would be granted for the president who was accused and investigated for a crime. Only impeachment.

The case of slick willy is very clear on that. He was caught red-handed lying under oath. For that, he agreed to give up his law license forever, and he faced impeachment. His 'high crime' was perjury, and obstruction. He did both, and he got away with both in the senate. There was never an outside indictment, or arrest, or anything like that because the constitution is quite specific on how the president and vice president are to be tried. It is the most extra-judicial method known. The founders were NOT going to have a rogue law enforcement arm going around arresting the leader of the country. Checks and balances.

Just know that there is nothing the DOJ, or AG, or any other copper in the land can do to Trump or Pence. Impeachment is it.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: Lucifer on June 04, 2018, 08:35:42 PM
...thus effectively placing himself above the law. All hail Hair Fuerer. No doubt you will all approve and decry any opinions to the contrary to be liberal nonsense.

 Had you actually read the entire dialogue on the matter, which started with Rudy Giuliani being interviewed if he thought the president could recuse himself.   Rudy replied:

Quote
In an interview with Business Insider, Giuliani said he believed the president was "making it clear that he's not going to" pardon himself.

"He doesn't have to do it, because he's done nothing wrong," Giuliani said. "If you just look at the Constitution, it says the president can pardon, and there are not words of limitation. Somebody could probably argue that there is a limitation, but it hasn't been decided by the court."

 Trump had some fun with this, which immediately began triggering the mouth foaming progressives. 

 Here are the actual words used by the President:

Quote
As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong? In the meantime, the never ending Witch Hunt, led by 13 very Angry and Conflicted Democrats (& others) continues into the mid-terms!

 So your alt left progressive talking points fail once again.

 But, I have to admit, it's fun watching the libs constantly go down in flames.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: Number7 on June 04, 2018, 09:12:32 PM
...thus effectively placing himself above the law. All hail Hair Fuerer. No doubt you will all approve and decry any opinions to the contrary to be liberal nonsense.

A fake post by a fake academic, babbling fake news.

Why am I not surprised???

Take a quarter and go buy yourself a brain, mike...
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: bflynn on June 05, 2018, 04:12:52 AM
Quote
The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Actually, the power to pardon IS limited.  The president may not pardon an impeachment and I would say he cannot pardon a state offense.  Other than that, there is no limit, including pardoning himself. Of course, Trump has no need to pardon himself because he has done nothing wrong.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: Username on June 05, 2018, 04:48:33 AM
Actually, the power to pardon IS limited.  The president may not pardon an impeachment and I would say he cannot pardon a state offense. 

Ford pardoned Nixon of his alleged state crime of obstruction of justice and "all offenses against the United States."  However, this was before Nixon was convicted and impeached.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on June 05, 2018, 07:12:47 AM
Before the election there were lots of articles about how President Hillary could pardon herself from consequences of her email mishandling. The conclusion was that yes, she could. But it was not advised, because it would be an admission of guilt.
Title: Re: Trump has decided he can pardon himself
Post by: Steingar on June 05, 2018, 07:30:22 AM
What a surprise, a reasoned and intelligent discussion.  Keep this up and you might have yourselves a vibrant and interesting website.