PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Mr Pou on October 16, 2018, 05:16:03 AM
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/10/15/hillary-clinton-lewinsky-affair-not-abuse-power/1649942002/
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Abuse of power? Hell yes. She was a vulnerable 22 year old EMPLOYEE enamored with a charismatic (to her), lecherous, much older President who was a serial sexual predator. He put the security of this country at risk over what he did in the Oval Office.
Hillary screwed the pooch on this one, and right before the midterms. Her, and Warren make a great pair of political buffoons. The DNC leadership is freaking out, and rightly so. GOOD!!!
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Run Hillary Run.
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I happen to agree with Hillary on this point. It was not abuse of power by Bill; Monica was a consenting adult. To consider that abuse of power one would have to believe any and all romantic involvement between individuals at work where one holds a higher position is abuse and I'm not going there. There is no evidence whatsoever that Bill made sex a condition of employment. In fact, the reverse is true, he wanted her in that job, and on her part she pursued him and wanted the sexual contact also, and got a lot of ego boost from having an affair with the most powerful man on earth. For her to turn around now and claim victimhood is damaging for all women in the workplace. It is making men reluctant to hire women or include them on business trips for fear of future charges of misconduct.
But there was someone who committed an abuse of power in this situation: Hillary herself. It was Hillary, not Bill, who got Monica removed from Whitehouse duties for reasons having nothing to do with her actual work, but because of personal jealousy. That it was Hillary, not Bill, who damaged Monica's job is well documented and Hillary knows it. She's not stupid enough to try to put that on Bill.
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I think Monica idolized Bill, and she wanted a relationship as much as he did. However, he was married, her boss, the President, and had the responsibility of not exposing himself to blackmail by foreign, or domestic enemies of the U.S. So, in effect he abused his power by being irresponsible, not necessarily to force Monica to do anything against her will. However, would Monica have been so enamored with him if he was just some Joe Smoe, and not the President?
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How did the Lewinsky story come to light? I can’t remember. I lean toward Anthony’s take on this, but mostly because I do expect my President will conduct himself honorably while in office.
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I happen to agree with Hillary on this point. It was not abuse of power by Bill; Monica was a consenting adult.
That dog just doesn't point in the #metoo era. Imagine what would happen if Trump happened to be caught in an uncompromising position with a 22yr old intern? And Hillary would be at the front of the frothy line...
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That dog just doesn't point in the #metoo era. Imagine what would happen if Trump happened to be caught in an uncompromising position with a 22yr old intern? And Hillary would be at the front of the frothy line...
You're right about that.
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I think Monica idolized Bill, and she wanted a relationship as much as he did. However, he was married, her boss, the President, and had the responsibility of not exposing himself to blackmail by foreign, or domestic enemies of the U.S. So, in effect he abused his power by being irresponsible, not necessarily to force Monica to do anything against her will. However, would Monica have been so enamored with him if he was just some Joe Smoe, and not the President?
Okay I agree with your point about him being irresponsible in that it could have hurt the country and yes you can say that's abuse of power. But I don't like to call the affair itself abuse of power over Monica just because he was in a position of authority at the work place and much older.
First, because women on average hold lower status positions than men, any random attraction between coworkers is going to be more likely to have him in a position higher than her. This is simply a statistical reality, not evidence that men in higher positions are using the position difference as a weapon against women.
Second, women are biologically programmed to get crushes on men from menarche (average age 13) and men are biologically programmed to pursue females from puberty on (average age 15). Our society has rather unnaturally decided those ages are too young to be considered consensual (but only for females) and arbitrarily picked higher ages, 18 or at most 21, as the age of consent. Now we are breaking even that and declaring a 22 year old woman not mature enough for choosing to have consensual sex and be responsible for her decision yet we are holding males accountable at age 17! Not buying this, nope. If Kavanaugh can be strung up for sexual urges at 17, Monica can damn sure accept responsibility at 22.
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How did the Lewinsky story come to light? I can’t remember. I lean toward Anthony’s take on this, but mostly because I do expect my President will conduct himself honorably while in office.
I believe Linda Tripp, a friend of Lewinsky's, brought it to Ken Starr's attention.
https://www.history.com/news/lewinsky-affair-bill-clinton-impeachment-blue-dress-linda-tripp
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Okay I agree with your point about him being irresponsible in that it could have hurt the country and yes you can say that's abuse of power. But I don't like to call the affair itself abuse of power over Monica just because he was in a position of authority at the work place and much older.
First, because women on average hold lower status positions than men, any random attraction between coworkers is going to be more likely to have him in a position higher than her. This is simply a statistical reality, not evidence that men in higher positions are using the position difference as a weapon against women.
Second, women are biologically programmed to get crushes on men from menarche (average age 13) and men are biologically programmed to pursue females from puberty on (average age 15). Our society has rather unnaturally decided those ages are too young to be considered consensual (but only for females) and arbitrarily picked higher ages, 18 or at most 21, as the age of consent. Now we are breaking even that and declaring a 22 year old woman not mature enough for choosing to have consensual sex and be responsible for her decision yet we are holding males accountable at age 17! Not buying this, nope. If Kavanaugh can be strung up for sexual urges at 17, Monica can damn sure accept responsibility at 22.
I pretty much agree with all of that. I think it was more an abuse of power due to irresponsibility, not that Bill "needed" to use his superior position to coerce and pressure Monica into a sexual relationship. She wanted it as much or more than he did. Why he picked her, I could never understand.
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I believe Linda Tripp, a friend of Lewinsky's, brought it to Ken Starr's attention.
https://www.history.com/news/lewinsky-affair-bill-clinton-impeachment-blue-dress-linda-tripp
I remember now! I was driving when I heard the taped phone conversations between Tripp and Lewinsky. It was truly middle school sounding, with lots of breathless gasping and trash talk.
I was also driving when I heard Hillary being interviewed about the affair. She said it was a vast, right wing conspiracy, and I remember hitting the dashboard with my hand in frustration. The dashboard and steering wheel took a lot of abuse when I used to listen to NPR.
My dental hygienist grew up on Arkansas and says the Clintons were both famous for having multiple affairs. They’ve always seemed creepy to me, from the moment they appeared on the national stage.
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I happen to agree with Hillary on this point. It was not abuse of power by Bill; Monica was a consenting adult. To consider that abuse of power one would have to believe any and all romantic involvement between individuals at work where one holds a higher position is abuse and I'm not going there. There is no evidence whatsoever that Bill made sex a condition of employment. In fact, the reverse is true, he wanted her in that job, and on her part she pursued him and wanted the sexual contact also, and got a lot of ego boost from having an affair with the most powerful man on earth. For her to turn around now and claim victimhood is damaging for all women in the workplace. It is making men reluctant to hire women or include them on business trips for fear of future charges of misconduct.
But there was someone who committed an abuse of power in this situation: Hillary herself. It was Hillary, not Bill, who got Monica removed from Whitehouse duties for reasons having nothing to do with her actual work, but because of personal jealousy. That it was Hillary, not Bill, who damaged Monica's job is well documented and Hillary knows it. She's not stupid enough to try to put that on Bill.
I understand your point, even though I disagree with it.
"Consenting" is a difficult thing to prove when one of the participants holds such an incredible amount of power over another. This would apply even if the sexes were reversed. What could possibly happen to her job and career if she refused him?
There are well and rightly entrenched rules in our military (of which Bill was CIC) against fraternization, and this is the worst kind of "fraternization". I am sure Bill probably approved the punishment of numerous military officers for lesser offenses.
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My dental hygienist grew up on Arkansas and says the Clintons were both famous for having multiple affairs. They’ve always seemed creepy to me, from the moment they appeared on the national stage.
Damn......wish you hadn't gone there............How anyone could.....damn!
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I disagree with Rush on this. And not going to get wrapped around the axle on definitions.
1. Morally wrong. He was and is married. She knew he was married. Not that this is high on my list of concerns, but if a man will lie to his wife about this, what else will he lie about?
2. Ethically wrong. He was in a position of power, she was the position of supplicant. There doesn't need to be a direct or overt threat of employment, it is implied any time there is a large discrepancy between the two people's roles. This is specifically enhanced when there is a direct link between the employment of one over the other(either gender).
3. Legally wrong. I have taken a required course in office relations with co-workers and in each state there is specific and clear wording that fraternization with co-workers in a position of authority over another can be legally treacherous.
4. Leverage; Monica seems like a nice young girl, with a desire to support her country. What if she wasn't so nice, and was working indirectly for another country? Or, that she became a pawn of another country which learned about the affair and pressured her, to pressure him. It would start out small; 'Bill, you need to vote yes on the gay-marriage ban'. Once in, he could never ever get out. 'Bill, I need to to approve $11 Billion appropriation for the XYZ company environmental clean-up'. Now, she's controlling policy, and who is controlling her? 'Bill, we need 3000 combat troops in Somalia to counteract the rebel insurgency'. And on, and on.
5. Horrible optics. Let me expand. Clinton was not the first to have an affair while in the WH. In fact, I would guess there's a pretty long list. However, Bill's taste in women are - shall we say, pedestrian? Monica? Jennifer? Paula? Yikes... Lets presume a president is going to have an affair. Kennedy was shtupping while in office too, but look who he chose. We can all understand hitting Marilyn, "happy---------birthday-------toooooooo you. Happy------------birthday--------toooo you", any guy can wink, wink, nod, nod that but jeez if one is going to stray off the marriage due to being married to Hillary, why not chose someone like Raquel, or Debbie Harry(I hit that), or that girl from the Weird Science movie? Monica? Oh - jeez, no offense meant but the first time I saw her I said 'no way he was tooting on that' because she is just - homely.
Anyway, call it what you like, I think he should have been required to step down. Not just for the affair, but for the twisted tangle of lies after, which cost him his law license.
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The general employment relationship between Bill and Monica alone would be textbook sexual harassment under the law, consent is irrelevant, add in the age difference and the fact that he held the most powerful office ON THE PLANET at the time you simply cannot call it anything but abuse of power.
And everyone knows if the shoe was on the other foot for say W, or HW, or especially Trump the Radical Alt Left Government-Media complex would be fucking apoplectic, just look at how seriously and respectfully they treated Stormy Daniels, a PORN ACTRESS and likely CALL GIRL (although the recent decision in Trump's favor there will soon see her 15 minutes over too).
The hypocrisy is ASTRONOMICAL in scale.
'Gimp
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Yes, the double standard is huge. Stormy Daniels is a Prostitute (escort), Porn Actress, and Stripper, yet the Media made her seem like Princess Diana. If a Republican was doing an intern in the Oval Office, then lied under oath the Media would have had a 24/7 meltdown for years, calling for Impeachment. I mean look what they did to Trump over a made up LIE?
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I disagree with Rush on this. And not going to get wrapped around the axle on definitions.
1. Morally wrong. He was and is married. She knew he was married. Not that this is high on my list of concerns, but if a man will lie to his wife about this, what else will he lie about?
2. Ethically wrong. He was in a position of power, she was the position of supplicant. There doesn't need to be a direct or overt threat of employment, it is implied any time there is a large discrepancy between the two people's roles. This is specifically enhanced when there is a direct link between the employment of one over the other(either gender).
3. Legally wrong. I have taken a required course in office relations with co-workers and in each state there is specific and clear wording that fraternization with co-workers in a position of authority over another can be legally treacherous.
4. Leverage; Monica seems like a nice young girl, with a desire to support her country. What if she wasn't so nice, and was working indirectly for another country? Or, that she became a pawn of another country which learned about the affair and pressured her, to pressure him. It would start out small; 'Bill, you need to vote yes on the gay-marriage ban'. Once in, he could never ever get out. 'Bill, I need to to approve $11 Billion appropriation for the XYZ company environmental clean-up'. Now, she's controlling policy, and who is controlling her? 'Bill, we need 3000 combat troops in Somalia to counteract the rebel insurgency'. And on, and on.
5. Horrible optics. Let me expand. Clinton was not the first to have an affair while in the WH. In fact, I would guess there's a pretty long list. However, Bill's taste in women are - shall we say, pedestrian? Monica? Jennifer? Paula? Yikes... Lets presume a president is going to have an affair. Kennedy was shtupping while in office too, but look who he chose. We can all understand hitting Marilyn, "happy---------birthday-------toooooooo you. Happy------------birthday--------toooo you", any guy can wink, wink, nod, nod that but jeez if one is going to stray off the marriage due to being married to Hillary, why not chose someone like Raquel, or Debbie Harry(I hit that), or that girl from the Weird Science movie? Monica? Oh - jeez, no offense meant but the first time I saw her I said 'no way he was tooting on that' because she is just - homely.
Anyway, call it what you like, I think he should have been required to step down. Not just for the affair, but for the twisted tangle of lies after, which cost him his law license.
I'm swamped with work at the moment and can't read all of this but the last sentence I agree with. Just because I don't think he "abused" Monica doesn't mean I approve of what he did. Make no mistake!
If I get the time later to read the rest I'll let you know if I disagree with it. ;D
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I disagree with Rush on this. And not going to get wrapped around the axle on definitions.
1. Morally wrong. He was and is married. She knew he was married.
I don't think I would consider what they have as a marriage. More like a contract between two snakes to help each other slither as far up the political ladder as they can. At that, they succeeded quite well.
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I don't think I would consider what they have as a marriage. More like a contract between two snakes to help each other slither as far up the political ladder as they can. At that, they succeeded quite well.
Like I mentioned, I don't have a big problem with the moral aspects of the situation. However, a marriage as contract in any state I'm aware has an implied(if not explicit) codicil of sexual monogamy, unless specifically waived by both parties. If they had an open marriage I suspect that one or both of them would have mentioned that over the course of Bill's wandering penis.
Which brings up the question - who is Chelsea's dad? She looks a bit like mom, but nothing like Bill. Which leads to the age old college question - how drunk was I(that I shtupped Hillary)?
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Like I mentioned, I don't have a big problem with the moral aspects of the situation. However, a marriage as contract in any state I'm aware has an implied(if not explicit) codicil of sexual monogamy, unless specifically waived by both parties. If they had an open marriage I suspect that one or both of them would have mentioned that over the course of Bill's wandering penis.
Which brings up the question - who is Chelsea's dad? She looks a bit like mom, but nothing like Bill. Which leads to the age old college question - how drunk was I(that I shtupped Hillary)?
Chelsea's dad is Webb Hubbell, a former law partner of Hillary.
See the pic below of Hubbell's daughter and Chelsea.
(https://preview.redd.it/3j1v1wv09c2z.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=09652e3cacc3d104ab5b861c6e2518bf23f6673b)
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Holy shit, you're right!!
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Damn......wish you hadn't gone there............How anyone could.....damn!
FWIW, I have always been repulsed by Bill and can’t imagine anyone wanting to touch him. Ewww. Remember “I feel your pain?” Ewww.
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FWIW, I have always been repulsed by Bill and can’t imagine anyone wanting to touch him. Ewww. Remember “I feel your pain?” Ewww.
But wait. He promoted himself as the "First Black President". Does that change things for you? You know Jungle Fever and all. :)
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FWIW, I have always been repulsed by Bill and can’t imagine anyone wanting to touch him. Ewww. Remember “I feel your pain?” Ewww.
Me too!!! I never understood how people say he has charisma. He has always repulsed me, and it didn't even have anything to do with his politics.
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It has long been my opinion that the worst thing that President Clinton did in regards to the Lewinski matter was to lie under oath. Yes, most opinions that sexual relations between people with an employer-employee relationship usually constitute a breach of law are correct. But that is bad law or at least a law that is frequently over applied and misapplied. As long as there is no tit for tat involved but rather if simply based on mutual attraction, there is nothing wrong with it, in my opinion. Of course relationships frequently go south and complications can arise so prudence might dictate avoiding such relationships by both parties. So I don’t care that he was married or that Monica was an employee of his. They were both consenting adults. However the lie under oath was wrong though in my opinion the question probably should never have been asked.
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Yes, the double standard is huge. Stormy Daniels is a Prostitute (escort), Porn Actress, and Stripper, yet the Media made her seem like Princess Diana. If a Republican was doing an intern in the Oval Office, then lied under oath the Media would have had a 24/7 meltdown for years, calling for Impeachment. I mean look what they did to Trump over a made up LIE?
Yes the double standard is huge but it's also a gender double standard. If Sarah Palin were President and some 22 year old male intern did her, would we be saying Palin "abused" him? Or would people be congratulating the kid for diddling a hot cougar. At the least there wouldn't be much outpouring or sympathy for the "victim".
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Yes the double standard is huge but it's also a gender double standard. If Sarah Palin were President and some 22 year old male intern did her, would we be saying Palin "abused" him? Or would people be congratulating the kid for diddling a hot cougar. At the least there wouldn't be much outpouring or sympathy for the "victim".
I am certain, given what we’ve seen lately from the Dems, that they would defend and justify almost any behavior by one of their own, even toward one of their own.
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I disagree with Rush on this. And not going to get wrapped around the axle on definitions.
1. Morally wrong. He was and is married. She knew he was married. Not that this is high on my list of concerns, but if a man will lie to his wife about this, what else will he lie about?
2. Ethically wrong. He was in a position of power, she was the position of supplicant. There doesn't need to be a direct or overt threat of employment, it is implied any time there is a large discrepancy between the two people's roles. This is specifically enhanced when there is a direct link between the employment of one over the other(either gender).
3. Legally wrong. I have taken a required course in office relations with co-workers and in each state there is specific and clear wording that fraternization with co-workers in a position of authority over another can be legally treacherous.
4. Leverage; Monica seems like a nice young girl, with a desire to support her country. What if she wasn't so nice, and was working indirectly for another country? Or, that she became a pawn of another country which learned about the affair and pressured her, to pressure him. It would start out small; 'Bill, you need to vote yes on the gay-marriage ban'. Once in, he could never ever get out. 'Bill, I need to to approve $11 Billion appropriation for the XYZ company environmental clean-up'. Now, she's controlling policy, and who is controlling her? 'Bill, we need 3000 combat troops in Somalia to counteract the rebel insurgency'. And on, and on.
5. Horrible optics. Let me expand. Clinton was not the first to have an affair while in the WH. In fact, I would guess there's a pretty long list. However, Bill's taste in women are - shall we say, pedestrian? Monica? Jennifer? Paula? Yikes... Lets presume a president is going to have an affair. Kennedy was shtupping while in office too, but look who he chose. We can all understand hitting Marilyn, "happy---------birthday-------toooooooo you. Happy------------birthday--------toooo you", any guy can wink, wink, nod, nod that but jeez if one is going to stray off the marriage due to being married to Hillary, why not chose someone like Raquel, or Debbie Harry(I hit that), or that girl from the Weird Science movie? Monica? Oh - jeez, no offense meant but the first time I saw her I said 'no way he was tooting on that' because she is just - homely.
Anyway, call it what you like, I think he should have been required to step down. Not just for the affair, but for the twisted tangle of lies after, which cost him his law license.
I've had time to read the rest. I don't disagree with most of it but I need to clarify that I did not agree with Hillary that Bill should be given a pass. I think he should have stepped down for lying and for defiling the Oval Office. What I agreed with her on was that he did not abuse his power relative to Monica.
To your bullet number two. I don't get why women fear an "implied threat" to employment from those in power. Maybe it's because I don't allow myself to end up working for such scumbags in the first place. It's a job, not slavery.
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Oh come on. It's what the #metoo movement is all about.
Secretary propositioned by the boss, casting couch, glass ceiling. Really? Don't get it? You must be the most evolved person on the planet if you can't see the historical perspective once women entered the male-dominated realm of politics, business and industry.
It's why I stay away from women in my business dealings now. If I were to ask a female subordinate to lunch it's fraught with ethical and legal issues. Some time in the future, it's going to turn into: "I am not going to be IGNORED Dan!!!" Then we got stewed rabbits, screaming kiddies, and eventually the knives and pistols come out. No one wins.
It is what it is. There is such a great divide between the prez and an intern he could easily make or break her budding career with a shake of his peter. Or, as it turned out - she could make or break him with a spooge-stained blue dress. Now it has affected the whole nation and put another barrier between working men and women. What a shame.
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It's why I stay away from women in my business dealings now. If I were to ask a female subordinate to lunch it's fraught with ethical and legal issues.
Amen, brother! Sing it! I don't say SHIT to women I don't know anymore, in business, at church, even walking down the street. I don't smile at them, I don't say hello, I just walk on by minding my own business. Too many recently have been burned over innocuous comments that have "offended" someone. The deviciveness of the previous administration[1] continues to wreak havoc on society.
[1] And the current left
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I ran into a dear friend the other day and while he and I were hugging it went through my mind that an observer could really take it wrong. So sad to even have to think that.
I’ve had three instances of men hitting on me sleazily. I use those terms because two of them were married while I was single, and one proceeded to push his agenda despite my big fat wedding ring. In all cases I cut the whole scenario short with brief but pointed verbal lambasting regarding the sleaziness of their behavior. If any of them had been my boss or had control over my professional destiny, I have NO doubt whatsoever that I would have responded exactly the same. I don’t relate at all to women whose values allow them to tolerate exploitation by men, or to exploit men, to get something they want.
Another guy used to just stand too close. I’d just move away while telling him I wasn’t comfortable with him moving into my space like that. Rush will understand when I say it took him a good long while before he realized I meant it, and stopped.
Unfortunately, sleazebag men and women, and men and women who enable them, have made it difficult for all of us.
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I ran into a dear friend the other day and while he and I were hugging it went through my mind that an observer could really take it wrong. So sad to even have to think that.
I’ve had three instances of men hitting on me sleazily. I use those terms because two of them were married while I was single, and one proceeded to push his agenda despite my big fat wedding ring. In all cases I cut the whole scenario short with brief but pointed verbal lambasting regarding the sleaziness of their behavior. If any of them had been my boss or had control over my professional destiny, I have NO doubt whatsoever that I would have responded exactly the same. I don’t relate at all to women whose values allow them to tolerate exploitation by men, or to exploit men, to get something they want.
Another guy used to just stand too close. I’d just move away while telling him I wasn’t comfortable with him moving into my space like that. Rush will understand when I say it took him a good long while before he realized I meant it, and stopped.
Unfortunately, sleazebag men and women, and men and women who enable them, have made it difficult for all of us.
Thank you so much Becky. This was exactly what I was trying to say in my last post but you expressed it much more clearly. I'm not sure why invflatspin thinks I'm more "evolved" because this is the way I am. I do not tolerate any situation where I feel threatened by anyone. If those actions you mention above don't take care of the problem then the man is a psychopathic rapist and I don't remain in situations with people like that. No job is worth it.
I suspect that often women who feel exploited in this way might be making up the threat in their own head and hence go along with the sex, because from the start they imagine themselves powerless victims. I wonder how many times the poor old dude thinks he's got a hot young secretary for a girlfriend only to find out later she was pretending to like him because she feared for her job. Who's the victim there? He's been mindfucked because of her insecurity and false assumptions and maybe even faces a misconduct lawsuit.
But more often I bet it's a mutual attraction. I don't care how many laws and policies you make about workplace romance. Human nature makes you fall for people you spend a lot of time around and age difference or position difference is not going to stop the sexual chemistry if it's destined. That's probably what usually happens, then when they break up the person in the one down position (usually the female) re-paints the ex as a manipulative monster because we often feel that way after a bad break up, and that right there is ripe for accusations of manipulation, misconduct, abuse of power, etc.
Yes this #metoo movement is backfiring badly on women, causing men to not have anything to do with us. We may be seeing the end of the golden age of women being accepted in male dominated workplaces.
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I have no problem with any kind of fraternization among co-workers, of similar or equivalent positions. Heck, I used to hit on girls all the time at work back in the 80s. I've been hit on a few times at work myself, back when men were allowed to do some fairly aggressive flirting(was that sleazy? Can't be sure - but it worked).
Here's a true tale from the past. I used to work in an office with 5 women. There were 2 guys in the dept. I would regularly join them for lunch when asked, or when it was likely that the whole crew would go together. One of the women - Janet, was pretty well endowed, and like girls do, they got to talking about 'support'. After listening for a minute I said I would speak up and have an opinion. There was some grins around the table and they turned to me when I said that 'support' was overrated, and I'd like to see more of the '60s theme at work. Then I looked at Janet and said; 'except for Janet, that would be far too disturbing'. I said it with a grin and they all had a good laugh. Eventually, Janet and I hooked up, and were good friends. What would happen today? Well, first - there is NO WAY I would go to lunch unless it was a required function. Next, I would sit quietly, and nod and comment on the food; 'the fish is overcooked'. If someone asks me about a topic of the day, having to do with gender, or sex, or breasts, or anything like that I would change the subject to weather; 'Wish it would warm up some'.
And this is sad, because I like women. I like being around them, and I like working with them, and I like to be friends with them. But I can't anymore. What is sleazy? I've had married women at work make it well-known they were open for business. So what if I take a shot, and get rebuffed and a few days later she's diddling the guy from sales? How's it going to end? My guess is there's a good chance the guy from sales is going to be reported for some kind of behavior, and either counseled or dismissed depending on how his sales track record goes. Now, put either of them in management, and one of them reports to the other(gender doesn't matter). Can o worms. Even worse than a co-worker.
So, easier all around to just ostracize them. Going back to Hillary, I mean look at how she treated the women who bedded Bill. Even today, they are the butt of jokes, and none of them are in the power-elite. Hillary successfully ended any kind of career that could have had if any of them were competent or even brilliant at the chosen profession(I admit I don't know what any of them do). Everyman's Anita Hill, or Dr Ford is right around the corner. I just don't NEED IT. Call me a misogynist, that's an easy out. Meh - don't care even if I am one.
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I've been hit on a few times at work myself, back when men were allowed to do some fairly aggressive flirting(was that sleazy? Can't be sure - but it worked).
Sooooooooo.......you were hit on by other men?........
That explains a few things.... ;D
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Sooooooooo.......you were hit on by other men?........
That explains a few things.... ;D
And I'm sure he ended up in meaningful relationships with them too. :)
No need for prostate exams huh?
:)
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And I'm sure he ended up in meaningful relationships with them too. :)
No need for prostate exams huh?
:)
NTTAWWT! 8)
Although I did live and work in SoCal, and yes, I have been hit on by men before, the clarification is that both sexes did it back then. Men hit on women at work and women hit on men at work. Perhaps a bit less overt, but girls have been more open about what they wanted and when they wanted it. I recall bringing in a tennis racquet to work one day, and don't recall why, but the next day there was a female co-worker who 'just happened' to have her tennis racquet with her at work too. Hmmm, says I, this is an interesting turn of events. We never did get around to playing tennis, but that's another story. Glad I was able to provide some fodder for y'all latent homosexuality. Again, NTTAWWT.
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We very often meet mates at work. This might be having a dampening effect on that. People are resorting to finding mates online.
I met my husband at work. He was an engineer at the plant and I was an engineer in the general office and I was assigned to help out on one of his projects. One day we went to lunch together and in general chit chat he mentioned his girlfriend and I mentioned my boyfriend. Later on he called me at the office and asked, "How committed are you to your boyfriend?" I said, "About 97% but I'm willing to explore the other 3%. Why don't you call me at home tonight?" He did and we talked for two hours. We both then immediately broke up with our respective girl/boy friends and started dating on the low down (against company policy), and got engaged three months later. We kept it secret for several months until shortly before the wedding and in the meantime the company changed the anti nepotism policy so didn't fire either of us.
We've been married 33 years.
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I always avoided relationships at work (yes with women) until I did it one time, and it ultimately became a royal pain in the ass. Never again. It was easy to refuse the married ones, the single ones, well...…...
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I tended the other direction. If it so much as brushed back a strand of hair in my presence I was like the proverbial dog with tail wagging. Today it would surely be called sleazy. I ran about 90/10 rejection/accept ratio. Back then, it was quantity over quality. A few times I woke up and wanted to chew my arm off to get away, away quickly please! lolz
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Met my SO at work.
Now I'm in upper management (why does that sound so Office Space-y?) and have to worry about even having a woman in my office alone with me. You need the buddy system now. And I definitely don't go to lunch alone with any of my female employees.
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Met my SO at work.
Now I'm in upper management (why does that sound so Office Space-y?) and have to worry about even having a woman in my office alone with me. You need the buddy system now. And I definitely don't go to lunch alone with any of my female employees.
Yep, gone are the days you could shut the door and have a conversation with your boss and no one thought a thing about it. I still think it's bizarre to have a nurse in the room when a doctor examines me. I'm not scared the doctor will molest me and I'm a bit offended at the implication I would falsely accuse him. But in these times they have to.
It not a good sign when trust breaks down in a society.
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I tended the other direction. If it so much as brushed back a strand of hair in my presence I was like the proverbial dog with tail wagging. Today it would surely be called sleazy. I ran about 90/10 rejection/accept ratio. Back then, it was quantity over quality. A few times I woke up and wanted to chew my arm off to get away, away quickly please! lolz
I think that's called "Coyote Ugly". Even drunk I knew better. :)
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Yep, gone are the days you could shut the door and have a conversation with your boss and no one thought a thing about it. I still think it's bizarre to have a nurse in the room when a doctor examines me. I'm not scared the doctor will molest me and I'm a bit offended at the implication I would falsely accuse him. But in these times they have to.
It not a good sign when trust breaks down in a society.
sigh - we are both(genders) at fault. No doubt young guys like me have been objectifying women for single purpose for centuries. No doubt women have been playing the tease or accuse game for just as long. That weird NASA chick who drove across the country wearing a diaper just hit my brain. Fatal Attraction did more for monogamy than all the sunday sermons since the Salem Witch trials.
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Don't ya'll kid yourself. It's the curse of being a pilot. Men kneel before you and women throw their panties. It's entirely up to you to decide what you do about that.
;D ;D
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