PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: JeffDG on February 09, 2016, 09:33:10 AM
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No wonder they swoon over Sanders. You just ruined my entire day, Jeff.
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As a Pennsylvania native, please remind me when the Holocaust occurred here. I must have missed that history lesson.
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I admit to not knowing the answers to some of the questions.
I had to google "night of broken glass", and while I can recognize the names of some of the concentration camps I probably couldn't come up with them off the top of my head.
In any case, I have to wonder what was taught in their history courses.
oh btw, was anyone taught about the genocide against Armenians in Turkey early in the 20th Century?
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I admit to not knowing the answers to some of the questions.
I had to google "night of broken glass", and while I can recognize the names of some of the concentration camps I probably couldn't come up with them off the top of my head.
In any case, I have to wonder what was taught in their history courses.
oh btw, was anyone taught about the genocide against Armenians in Turkey early in the 20th Century?
I've actually never heard of the "night of broken glass", but have heard of Kristallnacht. If asked to name concentration camps, I'd probably be able to do 3: Auschwitz, Buchenwald and Dachow.
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"Arbeit macht frei."
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*****SPOILER ALERT*****
She asked a very poignant question: Where was the Holocaust? Guess what? It's wasn't in America!!! Yet there are taxpayer dollars spent for a past problem that has been solved. While I disagree that the lesson hasn't been learned, I think the proble m is that society doesn't give a wombat-shit about application of the lessons.
I had never heard that a US President sent a boatload of Jews back to Europe.
Someone at 7:37 may be on hormone therapy (?)
It's interesting that it's not well known that the Nazis targeted groups other than Jews. Jews just have been the most vocal about keeping the knowledge of the Holocaust alive.
Clearly this video is proof that miseducation is equal opportunity as I fully expected the young Black woman to get the answer about Genocide.
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I had never heard that a US President sent a boatload of Jews back to Europe.
I had, and I think most educated Jews know the story, in at least rough outline.
It's interesting that it's not well known that the Nazis targeted groups other than Jews.
I thought it was fairly well known - 11 million total, of which 6 million were Jews.
Of course, my view of who knows what may be slanted by my Jewish upbringing.
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It's usually presented as "the Jewish Holocaust".
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My step daughter had a whole section of study on the holocaust, visited the museum, and read books about it. In 5th grade. Public school, Palm Beach County, FL.
I am not a history buff and did not know answers to a number of the questions in the video. But would have done drastically better than most of them.
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It is estimated Hitler had 6 million Jews exterminated, but there were other races/religion mixed in the concentration camps, but they were mostly Jews. My dad was one of the medical officers that liberated the camps. He was also assigned to the Nuremberg War Crime Trials and knew many of the Nazi's on trial personally.
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It's usually presented as "the Jewish Holocaust".
Nope. Not my experience.
"The Holocaust" needs no modifiers, and is a human tragedy.
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It's usually presented as "the Jewish Holocaust".
Except of course for the Roma, gays, the mentally defective...it was all the Jews.
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I had, and I think most educated Jews know the story, in at least rough outline.
Me too...and not Jewish...don't think I met my first Jewish person until I was in my 20s (drawbacks of growing up in a town of <500 people!)
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Me too...and not Jewish...don't think I met my first Jewish person until I was in my 20s (drawbacks of growing up in a town of <500 people!)
Yeah, but you like me were playing pond hockey, so it all works out in the end.
(^^^^what does that even mean?)
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Yeah, but you like me were playing pond hockey, so it all works out in the end.
(^^^^what does that even mean?)
Pond hockey rocks! No freakin' lawyers telling you that you have to wear 20 pounds of crap so you don't crack your skull open and sue.
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We wore no pads, no helmet, nothing. Jeans, a sweatshirt or two, and skates. That's it. And when the ice got thin, we were smart enough not to skate there! Duh!
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When I was a kid in the mid 80s, our family friend owned a diner. One of the regulars had strange set of numbers on his forearm, but I didn't know the significance of it st the time. Fast forward to a few years ago, my mother's friend was showing us some of her family items. One item was a certificate from a concentration camp; her parents and grandparents all survived. I thought it was strange to have an actual certificate.
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We wore no pads, no helmet, nothing. Jeans, a sweatshirt or two, and skates. That's it. And when the ice got thin, we were smart enough not to skate there! Duh!
I insisted on precisely one piece of protective equipment at all times.
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When I was a kid in the mid 80s, our family friend owned a diner. One of the regulars had strange set of numbers on his forearm, but I didn't know the significance of it st the time. Fast forward to a few years ago, my mother's friend was showing us some of her family items. One item was a certificate from a concentration camp; her parents and grandparents all survived. I thought it was strange to have an actual certificate.
Germans are nothing if not effective at maintaining documentation of their activities.
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Germans are nothing if not effective at maintaining documentation of their activities.
Do you know anything about Mauser C-96 or P0-8 Luger production records? If you are a collector it's kind of a nightmare. The serial numbers, and other info are very hard to follow production dates, variants, etc. Kind of surprised me too. Now the Swiss....
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It's usually presented as "the Jewish Holocaust".
I've never heard it qualified as "the Jewish Holocaust".
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I insisted on precisely one piece of protective equipment at all times.
Yeah, well of course that was a requirement. You only need to get dinged once. I was a Lacrosse player too so.......
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I'll bet they were taught about anal sex and how to put on a condom though.... priorities.
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Yeah, well of course that was a requirement. You only need to get dinged once. I was a Lacrosse player too so.......
Beer league hockey player here. Never too old to play! Even as a goalie.
Sent from my iPad . Squirrel!!
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I'll bet they were taught about anal sex and how to put on a condom though.... priorities.
I'd argue that's an equal or higher priority.
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Beer league hockey player here. Never too old to play! Even as a goalie.
Sent from my iPad . Squirrel!!
Man, I remember refereeing a beer league one year. That was rough.
One guy made the mistake of lipping off on the wrong night. It was game #4 (3 minor hockey games, then the beer league) for the day, and #30 for the month and I was beat. Really should have turned the assignment down...he said something to me and I insta-tossed his ass out of the game. Not proud of that.
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I played in a summer Lacrosse league after the spring HS league ended. I broke my clavicle in a game, and a month later I was at the Naval Academy Lacrosse camp in Annapolis for a month of torture. I played through it. Yes, I wore my cup. ;D
Endeavor to persevere.
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Oh my God. My head hurts. I sincerely cannot believe that COLLEGE STUDENTS can be that fucking ignorant and stupid. How did they make it out of high school without taking a History if Western Civilization course? How did they make it into college in the first place? Oh. my. God. Think of the TRILLIONS wasted on public education.
Yea, now let's make college FREE! That's exactly what these lobotomized drones will be doing in November.
I think I'm going to vomit.
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Man, I remember refereeing a beer league one year. That was rough.
One guy made the mistake of lipping off on the wrong night. It was game #4 (3 minor hockey games, then the beer league) for the day, and #30 for the month and I was beat. Really should have turned the assignment down...he said something to me and I insta-tossed his ass out of the game. Not proud of that.
Meh, around here some refs will toss you if you do that. Some toss a player for swearing, those games aren't much fun though. I'm jazzed if I make more saves than I let in. I'm ecstatic if I do it without feeling like death warmed over the next day.
We got 20 something controllers at my facility starting out, planning a recreation league team this May. Should be like watching a dumpster fire...which coincidentally is our team name!
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
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You folks do understand how these "man on the street" video agitprop pieces work, right??!!! Man, YouTube is shaping people's opinion. That's what's scary to me!!! Interview 100+ people on the street corner and edit out the 85% of people that answer correctly. Only put in the dumb asses. If you don't get enough dumb asses, explain to your interviewees what you're up to and many will volunteer to be dumb asses "for the cause".
Please don't think that these types of videos that are very popular now, actually represent the truth!! It's propaganda to advance an agenda. This women hates Nazis, but Goebbels would be proud of her and would have absolutely reveled in the internet.
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Oh, you mean sorta like the guy with the camera who goes to a Tea Party deal and looks and looks till he finds someone with a swastika who didn't belong there in the first place and then tries to pass that off as typical.
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Oh, you mean sorta like the guy with the camera who goes to a Tea Party deal and looks and looks till he finds someone with a swastika who didn't belong there in the first place and then tries to pass that off as typical.
Yes.
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You folks do understand how these "man on the street" video agitprop pieces work, right??!!! Man, YouTube is shaping people's opinion. That's what's scary to me!!! Interview 100+ people on the street corner and edit out the 85% of people that answer correctly. Only put in the dumb asses. If you don't get enough dumb asses, explain to your interviewees what you're up to and many will volunteer to be dumb asses "for the cause".
Please don't think that these types of videos that are very popular now, actually represent the truth!! It's propaganda to advance an agenda. This women hates Nazis, but Goebbels would be proud of her and would have absolutely reveled in the internet.
These dumb asses are in college. They somehow made it into higher education. The bar should be higher for them than the "man on the street." Even the 15% should know something about the topic.
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These dumb asses are in college. They somehow made it into higher education. The bar should be higher for them than the "man on the street." Even the 15% should know something about the topic.
Are subjects like the Holocaust and WWII even taught in high school today?
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Are subjects like the Holocaust and WWII even taught in high school today?
Only under the premise that we actually caused those problems and all since.
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Only under the premise that we actually caused those problems and all since.
Do you have a source for that?
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Only under the premise that we actually caused those problems and all since.
I remember in college, my roommate was taking a history course and the prof was blaming the US for Japan's attack at Pearl Harbor.
It is sad that people are so easily confused.
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Do you have a source for that?
Let's start here:
http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/136/conspiracy-did-fdr-deceive-the-american-people-in-a-push-for-war?utm_expid=22625156-1.jO__KIIlQVuEPc9uLGsmiQ.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F (http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/136/conspiracy-did-fdr-deceive-the-american-people-in-a-push-for-war?utm_expid=22625156-1.jO__KIIlQVuEPc9uLGsmiQ.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
Then of course the apology tour by our Commander in Chief:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/06/barack-obamas-top-10-apologies-how-the-president-has-humiliated-a-superpower (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/06/barack-obamas-top-10-apologies-how-the-president-has-humiliated-a-superpower)
Are you suggesting there is no discussions on college campuses that blame the US for past and current problems in the world?
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Are you suggesting there is no discussions on college campuses that blame the US for past and current problems in the world?
No.
My working assumption is that most history courses teach from outlines that present traditional interpretation of historical events. I further assume that most approved history texts do not take a radical perspective.
I will change that assumption if presented with evidence, not a handful of anecdotes.
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No.
My working assumption is that most history courses teach from outlines that present traditional interpretation of historical events. I further assume that most approved history texts do not take a radical perspective.
I will change that assumption if presented with evidence, not a handful of anecdotes.
Ah....moving the goal posts. Well done.
I will change my opinion if you can present facts that prove the President's apology tour didn't happen, and theories about Roosevelt or others like this are not discussed and taught on college campuses. https://mises.org/library/how-us-economic-warfare-provoked-japans-attack-pearl-harbor (https://mises.org/library/how-us-economic-warfare-provoked-japans-attack-pearl-harbor)
I suggest you go spend a little time on college campus or two. Have you done so in the past 10 years?
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Ah....moving the goal posts. Well done.
Thanks!
I subtly moved the goalposts from asking for a source to asking for evidence.
Got me!
Oh, and this quickly morphed from Bob Noel asking if WWII and the Holocaust were still taught in high school to possible liberal bias on college campuses. Well done.
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Thanks!
I subtly moved the goalposts from asking for a source to asking for evidence.
Got me!
Oh, and this quickly morphed from Bob Noel asking if WWII and the Holocaust were still taught in high school to possible liberal bias on college campuses. Well done.
You're welcome.
it's just not reasonable given the rhetoric of the last 7-8 years to not acknowledge there is some level of belief in this country that we as a superpower have been the cause of the world's problems dating back to the early part of the last century. In my opinion that sentiment has grown under Obama, because he believes it to be the case.
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You're welcome.
it's just not reasonable given the rhetoric of the last 7-8 years to not acknowledge there is some level of belief in this country that we as a superpower have been the cause of the world's problems dating back to the early part of the last century. In my opinion that sentiment has grown under Obama, because he believes it to be the case.
The late 50's, 60's, and 70's had the enlightened ones feeling guilty of our post WWII success. It started with the Beatnik generation and the "Ban the Bomb" movement, then moved into the anti Vietnam era which the DEMOCRATS did by the way. It became chic to hate America and our success.
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Let's start here:
http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/136/conspiracy-did-fdr-deceive-the-american-people-in-a-push-for-war?utm_expid=22625156-1.jO__KIIlQVuEPc9uLGsmiQ.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F (http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/136/conspiracy-did-fdr-deceive-the-american-people-in-a-push-for-war?utm_expid=22625156-1.jO__KIIlQVuEPc9uLGsmiQ.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
Then of course the apology tour by our Commander in Chief:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/06/barack-obamas-top-10-apologies-how-the-president-has-humiliated-a-superpower (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/06/barack-obamas-top-10-apologies-how-the-president-has-humiliated-a-superpower)
Are you suggesting there is no discussions on college campuses that blame the US for past and current problems in the world?
Points:
- There is nothing wrong with discussion
- I am confident that these discussions took place in the past as well
- The US is not a perfect country
- Discussing whether the US has any culpability for past or present world problems is not the same as curriculum which teaches that it is our country's fault for all problems past and present.
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Are subjects like the Holocaust and WWII even taught in high school today?
I have no clue what they teach today because I have no children, but back in my day they never taught us anything about WWI, or WWII. I went to all public schools that were considered very good for public schools and I graduated high school in 1981. Everything I know about 20th century conflicts I learned myself because I was interested in the subject and actually came to love history.
At some point, there is only so much time in a school day I guess.
My wife and I unknowingly attended an infamous showing of Schindler's List. It happened in Oakland, CA and the movie had just come out. We went to a matinee to save money and a local public high school teacher decided to take a whole class to see the movie. Well, things got out of hand and they had to stop the movie three times. The kids were laughing and making fun of what they saw in the movie!
After the third time they had to stop the film and turn the lights on, the projectionist accidentally ruined the print by burning it. We all got rain checks to come see the film again and lots of apologies. Well, some folks in the audience were so shocked by the kid's reactions, that the incident made first the local news and then national news. It started this whole national discussion of public education about the holocaust. Even Steven Speilberg got involved.
It turns out that there was nothing anti semitic about it at all. When they interviewed these kids to find out why they would crack jokes and laugh at such a human tragedy, they found out that these kids did not know what the holocaust was, did not know who the Nazis were, did not know anything about WWII and they did not know who Jews were. They knew Germany was another country. That's about it. They were completely disassociated from the subject. To them it was a story a long time ago, in galaxy far, far away...
Well anyhow, this issue has been going on a long time now and that's how I got to see Schindler's List 1.75 times.
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Are subjects like the Holocaust and WWII even taught in high school today?
It likely depends on the state, but the answer is yes. It is taught starting in elementary school in FL public schools.
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This appears to be a typical high school World History syllabus:
http://hhshobbs.sharpschool.com/staff/Social_Studies_Department/jeremy_walker/w_o_r_l_d_h_i_s_t_o_r_y_s_y_l_l_a_b_u_s (http://hhshobbs.sharpschool.com/staff/Social_Studies_Department/jeremy_walker/w_o_r_l_d_h_i_s_t_o_r_y_s_y_l_l_a_b_u_s)
Relevant to this discussion:
Events Leading to World War II (1939-1945)
1. Analyze and evaluate the causes of WWII.
2. Discuss principal theaters of battle, major turning points and geographic factors in military
decisions and outcomes.
3. Discuss the effects of totalitarianism with particular emphasis on the holocaust
4. Analyze and evaluate international developments following WWII
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I have no clue what they teach today because I have no children, but back in my day they never taught us anything about WWI, or WWII. I went to all public schools that were considered very good for public schools and I graduated high school in 1981. Everything I know about 20th century conflicts I learned myself because I was interested in the subject and actually came to love history.
At some point, there is only so much time in a school day I guess.
I graduated from a Catholic high school in the Chicago area in 1978, and we had either a semester or a full year of the History of Western Civilization. That was my sophomore year and it was taught by Fr. King.
Our friendly Air Traffic Controller MarkZ went to the same high school, but he's just a young buck, so I wonder if he was also taught Western Civ. "Chicago Approach, Cessna 7861A, request." We'll see if he pops in.
My daughter graduated from Charlotte (NC) Catholic HS in 2010, and she had a good course in Western Civ. as well.
Is it a public school thing?
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Is it a public school thing?
No. And I would bet that Dave is misremembering, though I hope he doesn't take offense that I say that. I graduated high school in 1998, having gone through all public schooling, and had plenty of exposure to all of this. And as I mentioned, current public schooling in FL gives exposure to this at least at two points during pre-college schooling. There is likely some variation in exposure from state to state, though.
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I guess one way to make sure things like this get taught is to establish a "common core" of required areas of study.
Or is that a dirty word?
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Some crudity, but worth the watch. On thread theme!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j556MWGVVqI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j556MWGVVqI)
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I'm going to ask some teachers I know what the Holocaust and WWII teaching is like now. In high school, I wrote a paper on the rise of Adolph Hitler, and throughout my college education never once encountered a Holocaust denier.
I think there was a shift at some point. Curious as to where and when that was. And of course, why.
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Holocaust denial has a long, sordid history (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10008003), beginning with the Nazis themselves. It would take some research to understand whether denial of the holocaust is more common than it used to be, or simply more visible.
[Edit] - Spelling
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Holocaust denial has a long, sordid history (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10008003), beginning with the Nazis themselves. It would take some research to understand whether denial of the holocaust is more common that it used to be, or simply more visible.
I would vote for simply more visible. The interweb has provided opportunities for every nutcase moron out there to honor us with their wisdom.
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Our friendly Air Traffic Controller MarkZ went to the same high school, but he's just a young buck, so I wonder if he was also taught Western Civ. "Chicago Approach, Cessna 7861A, request." We'll see if he pops in.
Father Retnor and Father Kuhn taught us western civ, and world religions. We learned about all of them (including Islam). Good classes.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
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Father Retnor and Father Kuhn taught us western civ, and world religions. We learned about all of them (including Islam). Good classes.
Sent from my iPhone . Squirrel!!
Father Kuhn was just out of the seminary when I was in school. Small world.
I took a "Religions of the East" course in college. Fascinating.
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In any case, I have to wonder what was taught in their history courses.
That's a gimme: The United States is responsible for everything bad in the world.
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I guess one way to make sure things like this get taught is to establish a "common core" of required areas of study.
Or is that a dirty word?
The question is: who controls what is in the common core?
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The question is: who controls what is in the common core?
Theoretically, "we the people" via our elected representatives.
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I have no clue what they teach today because I have no children, but back in my day they never taught us anything about WWI, or WWII.
At some point, there is only so much time in a school day I guess.
That is unbelievable.
What did they have time for?
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That is unbelievable.
What did they have time for?
They taught us colonization of North America, the revolution, westward expansion, the civil war, reconstruction and the industrial revolution. They pretty much ended there. That's all I can remember. We didn't learn anything about international history unless it was related to the US history.
I personally had a fascination with WWII based on the movies and documentaries I saw on TV. In my 30's I became obsessed and did a lot of reading on the subject and traveled to Europe to see some of the actual locations of the war in Europe. My wife calls that trip the Nazi invasion tour as I dragged her to some pretty obscure places that most tourist never go.
I eventually burned out on WWII and turned my attention to whatever the hell WWI was about. I got the basics, but it just didn't interest me as much as WWII. A big dumb, boring war and one of most miserable chapters in human history. That's really all anybody needs to know on that. ;D I like history, so I got up to speed on what happened in the 20th century on my own.
Like I said though, had that woman interviewed me in college I would have gotten nearly all her questions right and if she had interviewed me just out of college, I would have likely been able to tell here a thing or two. Either way, I would hit the cutting room floor for the purpose of her propaganda piece. However, the kids that graduated my high school would have failed and made the cut.
In the big picture, it's really not that big of a deal. My high school had a very high rate of graduates going to college and many of them are very successful to this day. I'm sure they all have watched enough popular entertainment to get the gist of the Holocaust. It really makes no difference anyways. Genocide has continued on in the world ever since and will continue to do so into the future. There are people talking of using atomic bombs on Muslims right now. The future always looks better without those "other people" in it.
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Theoretically, "we the people" via our elected representatives.
Which is exactly why all of these decisions should be done at the local level, rather than underneath multiple layers within the bureaucracy in the far off morass called Washington.