PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: bartmc on February 18, 2016, 08:52:20 AM
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A friend that works for Intel just told me that they pay $2500 referral fee to people who find gay people to come to work for them. I thought he was bsing me...Google says the fee is $4000 now and says its for "women and minorities"
YGBFSM
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Yep. "Diversity" is all the rage and very fashionable in the tech industry right now. Each company in Silicon Valley is competing to be able to brag about how diverse their work force is. I think the belief is, that a wider diversity of work force will allow more creative and alternative solutions to problems. It's theory and they're testing it right now. Now if one or more of Jaybird's black lives actually stayed in school and learned some tech, those lives could write their own ticket down there right now. Sadly, those lives are still waiting for government assistance before they can educate themselves.
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Yep. "Diversity" is all the rage and very fashionable in the tech industry right now. Each company in Silicon Valley is competing to be able to brag about how diverse their work force is. I think the belief is, that a wider diversity of work force will allow more creative and alternative solutions to problems. It's theory and they're testing it right now. Now if one or more of Jaybird's black lives actually stayed in school and learned some tech, those lives could write their own ticket down there right now. Sadly, those lives are still waiting for government assistance before they can educate themselves.
Blacks currently represent about 2% of the tech industry, which I agree is piss-poor.
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Blacks currently represent about 2% of the tech industry, which I agree is piss-poor.
What are you and your fellows doing about it?
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I've read about several initiatives to get STEM and Computer training into classrooms where there is a high black concentration. This is all private activity.
I also personally donated time to a majority black HS and have a few friends that do the same (at other HSs).
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I've read about several initiatives to get STEM and Computer training into classrooms where there is a high black concentration. This is all private activity.
I also personally donated time to a majority black HS and have a few friends that do the same (at other HSs).
I'm happy to hear that Jaybird!
Keep it up and spread the word.
The best help is self-help.
Someday we will get where we want to be.
I'll try to help do my part by standing against racial prejudice.
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I've read about several initiatives to get STEM and Computer training into classrooms where there is a high black concentration. This is all private activity.
I also personally donated time to a majority black HS and have a few friends that do the same (at other HSs).
That's great, as. STEM teacher it depresses me how hard it is to get girls and minorities (really any kids) to show an interest in Engineering.
-Dan
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That's great, as. STEM teacher it depresses me how hard it is to get girls and minorities (really any kids) to show an interest in Engineering.
-Dan
Why do you think that is?
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Why do you think that is?
Because nobody in hard science gives a shit about whatever grievances they might have about what happened over a century ago. Physics or chemistry care not a whit if your great grandfather was a slave. Your work is either good or it isn't.
If they want to have their grievances coddled to, then they end up in whatever _______ Studies is the flavour of the month among the grievance mongers.
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Why do you think that is?
I think it's for two reasons. One is cultural and the other is the way engineering is taught. Culturally there is a stigma about being an engineer as a pocket protector geek. Also the pay scale has always been poor compared to lawyer, or doctor, or just business careers. Software engineering and computers have changed that somewhat though. As culture we still don't respect the engineering field very much. It's still just a room full of geeks with little prestige.
IMO, the way engineering is taught is ridiculous. I was born into a whole family of engineers. When my brother and I were growing up, it was just assumed by everybody that we would become engineers too. We were building things and designing things from about 4 years old. We had a family machine shop and we were constantly building things.
In the end, neither my brother, nor I got engineering degrees. We both started, but both couldn't hack, or stand the all the fucking math. We wanted to do what we always had done, build things, not solve calculous problems. So we never got jobs working as engineers, but we are still building just the same.
Now, my cousin did get his degree in mechanical engineering and his dad (also and engineer) didn't have much of a shop at the house. So my cousin with a BS degree in hand, never really built a damn thing in his life! He was amazed at the stuff we were doing on our own. In his entire undergraduate program for mechanical engineering, they never actually built anything. All they did was crunch numbers and pretend they were going to make something.
My cousin never used his degree. He moved to the San Francisco Bay Area and refused to live elsewhere. There wasn't a lot of use here for mechanical engineers and his resume was kinda lame. He never built anything, or worked for anybody. After struggling at lame dead end jobs for years, he went back to school, got some 9 month certificate in database programming got hired right away and has been making good money here ever since. It turns out, he likes the work. I think I would shoot myself.
Anyhow, maybe things have changed in the last 25 years, but when I started down the engineering path, it was a dull, tedious annoying path with little reward at the end of it. I don't blame anyone for skipping it and doing something else. IMO, if you want kids to be engineers, you should have them building things right from the get go. More practical engineering rather then theoretical engineering. Just my opinion.
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I think it's for two reasons. One is cultural and the other is the way engineering is taught. Culturally there is a stigma about being an engineer as a pocket protector geek. Also the pay scale has always been poor compared to lawyer, or doctor, or just business careers. Software engineering and computers have changed that somewhat though. As culture we still don't respect the engineering field very much. It's still just a room full of geeks with little prestige.
IMO, the way engineering is taught is ridiculous. I was born into a whole family of engineers. When my brother and I were growing up, it was just assumed by everybody that we would become engineers too. We were building things and designing things from about 4 years old. We had a family machine shop and we were constantly building things.
In the end, neither my brother, nor I got engineering degrees. We both started, but both couldn't hack, or stand the all the fucking math. We wanted to do what we always had done, build things, not solve calculous problems. So we never got jobs working as engineers, but we are still building just the same.
Now, my cousin did get his degree in mechanical engineering and his dad (also and engineer) didn't have much of a shop at the house. So my cousin with a BS degree in hand, never really built a damn thing in his life! He was amazed at the stuff we were doing on our own. In his entire undergraduate program for mechanical engineering, they never actually built anything. All they did was crunch numbers and pretend they were going to make something.
My cousin never used his degree. He moved to the San Francisco Bay Area and refused to live elsewhere. There wasn't a lot of use here for mechanical engineers and his resume was kinda lame. He never built anything, or worked for anybody. After struggling at lame dead end jobs for years, he went back to school, got some 9 month certificate in database programming got hired right away and has been making good money here ever since. It turns out, he likes the work. I think I would shoot myself.
Anyhow, maybe things have changed in the last 25 years, but when I started down the engineering path, it was a dull, tedious annoying path with little reward at the end of it. I don't blame anyone for skipping it and doing something else. IMO, if you want kids to be engineers, you should have them building things right from the get go. More practical engineering rather then theoretical engineering. Just my opinion.
As a 35 year active member of the profession, I agree 100%.
I started in an Engineering Science program at the local community college (I think a semester's tuition was about $350) and after the first year was asking "So when do we start designing things?" Never got an answer. Eventually switched to Computer Science, but the ironic thing is I have always worked as a hardware-centric EE. Programming, except at the device level, never really interested me. I eventually (like 25 years into the career) went back to school at night and got an MSEE, just to back up my real life experience with a pedigree and as a personal challenge. Hardest thing I've ever done, and 50% math. But the program did emphasize practical applications, which was touted as a reason to choose that school over others. Maybe things are changing.
But the bigger issue with the current generation is that they are being brought up as "users", not "builders". Actually making stuff (other than writing "apps") is completely alien. There's a lot of reasons for that, but I'll leave it here for now.
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As a 35 year active member of the profession, I agree 100%.
I started in an Engineering Science program at the local community college (I think a semester's tuition was about $350) and after the first year was asking "So when do we start designing things?" Never got an answer. Eventually switched to Computer Science, but the ironic thing is I have always worked as a hardware-centric EE. Programming, except at the device level, never really interested me. I eventually (like 25 years into the career) went back to school at night and got an MSEE, just to back up my real life experience with a pedigree and as a personal challenge. Hardest thing I've ever done, and 50% math. But the program did emphasize practical applications, which was touted as a reason to choose that school over others. Maybe things are changing.
But the bigger issue with the current generation is that they are being brought up as "users", not "builders". Actually making stuff (other than writing "apps") is completely alien. There's a lot of reasons for that, but I'll leave it here for now.
One of the things I tell my children in the mornings is, "Solve a problem today." When we live in a world where technology gives us every beacon call and convenience there is very little reason to come up with the better mousetrap, afterall you don't have mice because your parents have the money to hire a good exterminator.
My 6-yo daughter likes to mix stuff and sometimes wants to cook. I encourage it. Soon enough she will be making her own recipes. I hope it inspires a love of chemistry, but my aspirations for her are in the fields of International Law. My 3-yo son likes construction equipment, monster-trucks and really all the "boy stuff" he can get his attention on. Sometimes he puts things together or takes them apart with his building toys. I have hopes of him graduating with a MS Engineering Degree.
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Why do you think that is?
I've been in engineering for a couple decades now. Fortunately I am blessed with finding math to be quite easy. Unfortunately I am in the minority. Of all the math taken during post-secondary education, very little is used today as a quality engineer. Sure, it may be used in some of our FMEA analytics. There is literally no math needed when we conduct IS/ISNOT analysis.
Math is difficult and curriculum should be created to ensure the basics are understood and implement the advanced math for specific engineering disciplines.
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That's great, as. STEM teacher it depresses me how hard it is to get girls and minorities (really any kids) to show an interest in Engineering.
-Dan
Do you think the word "engineer" is not used enough in high school?
I think STEM is stressed, at least at the Catholic high school that she attended. She was a science freak, but tended more toward the biology/chemistry side of science, and is now a veterinarian.
I don't recall engineering being something addressed early enough in high school, but I admit I'm not in touch with that today.
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I came across this article this morning and just HAD to share it, as it bears on the discussion in this thread.
Here is one of the most premier scientists in America (and he happens to be Black) explaining why the low numbers in STEM. Please click on the video it's a about a couple minutes in length.
http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow (http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow)
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I came across this article this morning and just HAD to share it, as it bears on the discussion in this thread.
Here is one of the most premier scientists in America (and he happens to be Black) explaining why the low numbers in STEM. Please click on the video it's a about a couple minutes in length.
http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow (http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow)
Interesting. He basically is saying the equivalent of "you can't have a country when immigration is out of control." The change must precede the conversation.
As a minority, I understand that I have to try harder in certain venues, so, like Neil, I do. The more respectable, competent people who rise in any minority group make it more acceptable and easier for those who follow
That is why I wish women like Melinda Gates would run for president, but that's another topic.
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I came across this article this morning and just HAD to share it, as it bears on the discussion in this thread.
Here is one of the most premier scientists in America (and he happens to be Black) explaining why the low numbers in STEM. Please click on the video it's a about a couple minutes in length.
http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow (http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow)
Great guy.
Great points.
We need more like him. He was a trailblazer. Now he needs to get more black kids to follow him. And all black parents need to use him as an example and a role model. He has shown what can be done in spite of hurdles rather than using the hurdles as an excuse. In fact, the hurdles he had to overcome probably made him even stronger and a better scientist.
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Great guy.
Great points.
We need more like him. He was a trailblazer. Now he needs to get more black kids to follow him. And all black parents need to use him as an example and a role model. He has shown what can be done in spite of hurdles rather than using the hurdles as an excuse. In fact, the hurdles he had to overcome probably made him even stronger and a better scientist.
While all of this is true, don't think for a second that he didn't have instances of sabotage even after he secured employment. No successful person can ever claim that the hurdles were an excuse because they made it. But gentlemen like Dr. Tyson apparently understands that he is a statistical anomaly in the sea of other potentially great ones that didn't make it for one reason or another, and those reasons are structurally interwoven into the society at large and touch every field of endeavor in America.
People are "the system". It is human designed. As such, there is no cause to believe "the system" is accidental or the result of happenstance by primordial soup.
I damn sure didn't get to where I am today by giving up. I literally had to reinvent myself when my dream profession didn't work out. I am also a statistical anomaly.
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I came across this article this morning and just HAD to share it, as it bears on the discussion in this thread.
Here is one of the most premier scientists in America (and he happens to be Black) explaining why the low numbers in STEM. Please click on the video it's a about a couple minutes in length.
http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow (http://www.upworthy.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-reveals-that-hes-been-black-his-whole-life-hilarity-and-wisdom-follow)
Blah blah blah victim blah blah
Admit it: The REAL problem is that in the "community" excelling in school is "acting White."
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right, because if you are WHITE and are successful, you didn't have any adversity or challenges.
good grief.
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I came across this article this morning and just HAD to share it, as it bears on the discussion in this thread.
Tyson made two good points: 1. He faced the soft bigotry of low expectations, as explained by George Bush, and 2. he had the fortitude and desire to overcome that.
Tyson is wrong about climate change, but he is a darn good astro guy.
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Tyson is wrong about climate change, but he is a darn good astro guy.
Maybe in a pop-sci kind of way. Astronomy is a bit of a hobby of mine, and I read a lot of the literature. His publishing record is pretty pedestrian, he's not particularly highly cited. I've not seen anything of a fundamental character in his scholarly work honestly.
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Blah blah blah victim blah blah
Admit it: The REAL problem is that in the "community" excelling in school is "acting White."
Where you get that BS from? I attended public HS in the inner-city and no one was ostracized for being Honor Roll, perfect attendance or any other superlative. I recall quite vividly that excellence was celebrated and names were called over the PA system every morning for accomplishments.
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Where you get that BS from? I attended public HS in the inner-city and no one was ostracized for being Honor Roll, perfect attendance or any other superlative. I recall quite vividly that excellence was celebrated and names were called over the PA system every morning for accomplishments.
How old are you?
This has changed.
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How old are you?
This has changed.
How in-touch are you with the thoughts of the Black Community?
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Maybe in a pop-sci kind of way. Astronomy is a bit of a hobby of mine, and I read a lot of the literature. His publishing record is pretty pedestrian, he's not particularly highly cited. I've not seen anything of a fundamental character in his scholarly work honestly.
But he's damn good at getting science into the conversations of younger folks.
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But he's damn good at getting science into the conversations of younger folks.
And he is good at explaining complex scientific stuff in layman's terms.
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How in-touch are you with the thoughts of the Black Community?
My DIL is a high school science teacher, and my son counsels underpriviledged people on employment opportunities. They both see a lot of this "acting white" crap.
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My DIL is a high school science teacher, and my son counsels underpriviledged people on employment opportunities. They both see a lot of this "acting white" crap.
I'll do some recon and let you know if I find the same.
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"engineer" is such a broad category as to be meaningless. Software engineers overlap with civil engineers almost nowhere.
In early school STEM is a great concept that (around here) has lots of traction across all demographics. Still a broad term but it brings kids to a "logical thinking" type of basis which IMHO is much more relevant to engineering than math (and I love math).
Of course the bureaucrats are now trying to turn it into STEAM (adding Art, because, well, I don't know).
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My DIL is a high school science teacher, and my son counsels underpriviledged people on employment opportunities. They both see a lot of this "acting white" crap.
It's been a few years since I've been actively involved in the HS environment, so I decided to do a quick survey. I have 3 educators in my family: 1 currently works in Elementary/ Special Education in a Blue-Collar predominately Black town, the other here in DC at a Public HS and the third, who I didn't survey is a law professor.
The Elementary/Special Ed teacher said that teasing happens around 4-5th grades. She reported a few instances of teasing the high achievers, but noted that teasing is common for any reason and is common in that age group. IMO, this is something that needs counteraction in the Black community - the teasing culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dozens) that can adversely affect self-esteem. She did not report any instances of teasing for "acting White".
The other teacher is at a high school and she estimates that 95% of the students are Black and she says that teasing of high achievers is not a factor at the school. She further went on to qualify that she doesn't hear the term, "acting White" at the school in student-student adverse relations. We then spoke specifically about her daughter, who is in a STEM program at a racially diverse school where they live in Maryland and that she is the singular Black student in the program. She credits herself for knowing how to navigate the system (as an educator) and being an effective advocate for her daughter. She says what was supposed to happen is that the student is to be identified and nominated for the program, but it didn't happen where her daughter was concerned despite her Honors classes, extracurricular activities and social popularity amongst her peers. So she took up the campaign banner and had the conversations, etc to get her into the program. So, that is a sample size of (1) to argue that a hidden social barrier exists at a multiracial school (in a reputed discriminatory county - Anne Arundel (http://www.policemisconduct.net/2010-npmsrp-police-misconduct-statistical-report/)).
This experience is juxtaposed with a friend who's son attends another school in the same county who is on the darker side of the spectrum of colorism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_based_on_skin_color). He is also a high-achiever and is teased for "acting white", also at a racially diverse school.
In conclusion, I believe that the issue of teasing of high-achievers in the Black Community is more complex of a subject than your DIL and son may realize, through no fault of their own.
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In conclusion, I believe that the issue of teasing of high-achievers in the Black Community is more complex of a subject than your DIL and son may realize, through no fault of their own.
That is certainly possible.