PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: nddons on February 21, 2016, 10:27:28 AM
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Why does this not surprise me any more?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/20/us/politics/donald-trump-in-triage-mode-after-shocking-conservatives-with-health-care-comments.html
Tell me again how Trump is a Conservative? Or is it another word that begins with a C?
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I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Democrat-In-All-But-Name.
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I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Democrat-In-All-But-Name.
Is he a corrupt bastard blaming conservatives for everything?
If not, then he really isn't a democrat.
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You guys do know that on several occasions the Heritage Foundation itself has supported an individual mandate, right?
And you know it was, at the time, supported by Newt Gingrich, right?
Conservative enough for you?
Many reasons for people to not support Trump but try and keep it rational and fact based, Conservatives are partly responsible for the individual mandate, not as it exists in Obamacare (which is also what Trump said, coincidentally), but it definitely has a significant Conservative history.
'Gimp
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I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Democrat-In-All-But-Name.
As stated by a LINO. ;D
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As stated by a LINO. ;D
Yet you seem to have the right to opine, and won't take any position yourself.
Ever check my profile, I have both "conservative" and "libertarian" checked. But I guess a Trumpkin gets confused by multi-syllable words.
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Conservative enough for you?
No. I look at policies on their actual merits, not based upon the personality of the person who advocates them.
Makes me less susceptible to cults of personality.
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You guys do know that on several occasions the Heritage Foundation itself has supported an individual mandate, right?
And you know it was, at the time, supported by Newt Gingrich, right?
Conservative enough for you?
Many reasons for people to not support Trump but try and keep it rational and fact based, Conservatives are partly responsible for the individual mandate, not as it exists in Obamacare (which is also what Trump said, coincidentally), but it definitely has a significant Conservative history.
'Gimp
Sigh. Heritage's support was for (a) an employer mandate, requiring large employers to provide insurance, and (b) a catastrophic insurance mandate to insulate the public from carrying these costs. I think Heritage set this forth in an amicus brief when the ACA went to the Supreme Court.
Where i have trouble with Trump is that he can't even articulate a conservative position in support for the individual mandate. Instead, he fell back to the same tired, liberal lies used by the democrats to support the mandate: "I don't want people dying on the streets."
COME ON! Jesus Christ, does he really need to use democrat's lies to support this liberal position? Can't this "conservative" make a Conservative argument for it?
He is giving democrats general election sound bites to support THEIR positions!
He is an unserious candidate for POTUS using using sound bites as serious as "You're fired" and no one seems to be blinking an eye.
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Sigh. Heritage's support was for (a) an employer mandate, requiring large employers to provide insurance, and (b) a catastrophic insurance mandate to insulate the public from carrying these costs. I think Heritage set this forth in an amicus brief when the ACA went to the Supreme Court.
Where i have trouble with Trump is that he can't even articulate a conservative position in support for the individual mandate. Instead, he fell back to the same tired, liberal lies used by the democrats to support the mandate: "I don't want people dying on the streets."
COME ON! Jesus Christ, does he really need to use democrat's lies to support this liberal position? Can't this "conservative" make a Conservative argument for it?
He is giving democrats general election sound bites to support THEIR positions!
He is an unserious candidate for POTUS using using sound bites as serious as "You're fired" and no one seems to be blinking an eye.
No, individual mandate was from Heritage and Gingrich, in the early 90's - in opposition to the 'Hillarycare'.
From a Forbes article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/#61e23aeb621b), my emphasis:
Stuart Butler’s lecture describes what the Heritage’s mandate would look like:
We would include a mandate in our proposal–not a mandate on employers, but a mandate on heads of households–to obtain at least a basic package of health insurance for themselves and their families. That would have to include, by federal law, a catastrophic provision in the form of a stop loss for a family’s total health outlays. It would have to include all members of the family, and it might also include certain very specific services, such as preventive care, well baby visits, and other items.
Suggesting someone who is spending millions of his own money and putting himself out there each and every day in pursuit of the nomination as 'unserious' is itself, I propose, unserious.
I don't like the throw away lines like 'people dying in the streets' anymore than you do, reminds me of W's 'compassionate conservative' trope - conservatism IS the only truly compassionate political philosophy in my opinion and it needs no explanation, to our fellow conservatives - but there are not enough of us to win elections. What I think Trump gets more than any Republican candidate in a generation or two, is that getting votes takes marketing and he is a great marketer.
'Gimp
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I don't get all the name calling here. But if you all like that kind of discussion, more power to you.
Here is my order of preference of the remaining viable candidates:
Rubio
Trump
Cruz
Sanders
(If Obama were running again, he would be here)
Hillary.
If we keep slamming the Rs that we don't like, we will end up with Hillary.
Even my wife (the Democrat) said we could move to Canada in the summer and somewhere else warm in the winter if Hillary wins.
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Yet you seem to have the right to opine, and won't take any position yourself.
Ever check my profile, I have both "conservative" and "libertarian" checked. But I guess a Trumpkin gets confused by multi-syllable words.
You're a LINO, period. As I've said before you apparently found a used copy of "Politics for Dummies" but only skimmed through it.
You can't make a coherent argument but can only resort to childish name calling, like a petulant child that doesn't get his way. You are only here to find people to bully that won't fall in line with your inane diatribes.
Sorry, no way I can take you seriously and thus will treat you as such.
Now, I'll await your reply where you will repeat the same things over and over and of course the silly name calling.
Too predictable.
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A post saying that I only resort to name calling that is nothing but name calling. Well played, sir, well played.
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I don't get all the name calling here. But if you all like that kind of discussion, more power to you.
Here is my order of preference of the remaining viable candidates:
Rubio
Trump
Cruz
Sanders
(If Obama were running again, he would be here)
Hillary.
If we keep slamming the Rs that we don't like, we will end up with Hillary.
Even my wife (the Democrat) said we could move to Canada in the summer and somewhere else warm in the winter if Hillary wins.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/02/20/ice-council-president-reveals-ugly-new-details-of-rubios-gang-of-eight-betrayal-ahead-of-sc-vote-308105
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http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/02/20/ice-council-president-reveals-ugly-new-details-of-rubios-gang-of-eight-betrayal-ahead-of-sc-vote-308105
That page had ads for just about everything I searched for in the past month or so. It was hard to read anything because the ad frames kept squishing the text around.
But I did get that someone has a beef with Rubio because he didn't get what he wanted a few years ago. And that article was from before the SC primary, and it tried to make it sound like his beef was going to cripple Rubio. It didn't.
And this is an example of what I mean. Once we get through picking all the Republicans apart we can just hand the election to Hillary, who you may have noticed is my LAST choice.
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Trump has made various comments that don't come across as conservative. While I don't know if Trump is a true conservative or not, I do think that it's okay to have positions that not all conservatives have and still be conservative. Just because one differs from another on a particular issue doesn't make him/her less conservative than the other.
That being said, I'd like to know what people here would say if a state decided to mandate health insurance instead of the federal government?
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That page had ads for just about everything I searched for in the past month or so. It was hard to read anything because the ad frames kept squishing the text around.
But I did get that someone has a beef with Rubio because he didn't get what he wanted a few years ago. And that article was from before the SC primary, and it tried to make it sound like his beef was going to cripple Rubio. It didn't.
And this is an example of what I mean. Once we get through picking all the Republicans apart we can just hand the election to Hillary, who you may have noticed is my LAST choice.
The President of the ICE union met with Rubio to express issues with the Gang of Eight bill. Rubio had hias staff in the meeting but would not allow the gentleman to have any of his people in the meeting. Rubio heard the issues and said he agreed and the bill should have amendments made to it yet ultimately filed the bill as it was ignoring the issues that were raised.
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That being said, I'd like to know what people here would say if a state decided to mandate health insurance instead of the federal government?
Such a situation would be, in my opinion, unwise. However, it would not have the Constitutional issues and the "no, really it's a tax" requirement that Obamacare had.
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Such a situation would be, in my opinion, unwise. However, it would not have the Constitutional issues and the "no, really it's a tax" requirement that Obamacare had.
Yet states are free to do that under the 10th Amendment.
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Yet states are free to do that under the 10th Amendment.
As I said...the Constitutional issue doesn't apply to the States.
The States are free to do some things that are unwise, even stupid.
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I figured you two would say that, and I agree. I'd be curious what Jaybird has to say about it.
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Trump has made various comments that don't come across as conservative. While I don't know if Trump is a true conservative or not, I do think that it's okay to have positions that not all conservatives have and still be conservative. Just because one differs from another on a particular issue doesn't make him/her less conservative than the other.
That being said, I'd like to know what people here would say if a state decided to mandate health insurance instead of the federal government?
If my State tried to mandate health coverage, I would vote against it, but if it passed, I would accept it. If I thought it was too egregious to live with, I could move to another State. But I still don't accept the fact that the FedGov had the right to do it, and moving to another country is a little to extreme for now.
But I do sort of agree with you that I don't hold all candidates to stick to every espoused conservative "principal". I have many differences with the GOP, but all in all, I still prefer the GOP to the Dems.
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Trump has made various comments that don't come across as conservative. While I don't know if Trump is a true conservative or not, I do think that it's okay to have positions that not all conservatives have and still be conservative. Just because one differs from another on a particular issue doesn't make him/her less conservative than the other.
That being said, I'd like to know what people here would say if a state decided to mandate health insurance instead of the federal government?
If Trump is the nominee, I will vote for him over Biden, Hillary, or Bernie. However, I do not trust him to uphold the 2A. That's it for me. The 2A supports all others. I do not have patience for candidates that do no support the 2A. Trump talks a good game, but I do not trust him.
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If Trump is the nominee, I will vote for him over Biden, Hillary, or Bernie. However, I do not trust him to uphold the 2A. That's it for me. The 2A supports all others. I do not have patience for candidates that do no support the 2A. Trump talks a good game, but I do not trust him.
Does Trump have to take out his twenty two magnum automatic revolver with a clip loaded with cop killer bullets and cap someone's ass for you to believe that he's a true Two Amendment guy?
Geeze. The things we have to do to convince some of you that Trump is a good 'ol Midwestern conservative.
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Does Trump have to take out his twenty two magnum automatic revolver with a clip loaded with cop killer bullets and cap someone's ass for you to believe that he's a true Two Amendment guy?
Geeze. The things we have to do to convince some of you that Trump is a good 'ol Midwestern conservative.
What's going to happen after the first mass shooting when he's president?
The reason people aren't sold on his conservative credentials, in particular his stance on the 2nd Amendment, is because of statements like this:
The Republicans walk the NRA line and refuse even limited restrictions,” he wrote in his book The America We Deserve. I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I also support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun.
While true that people can change their positions over time, and be sincere about their new stances, Trump comes across as changing his position based on the political winds, which is something President Obama has done a lot (read: gay marriage).
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/uncategorized/a-flip-flop-trump-now-supports-second-amendment
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/make-america-great-again#.foPLXladA
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights
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What's going to happen after the first mass shooting when he's president?
The reason people aren't sold on his conservative credentials, in particular his stance on the 2nd Amendment, is because of statements like this:
While true that people can change their positions over time, and be sincere about their new stances, Trump comes across as changing his position based on the political winds, which is something President Obama has done a lot (read: gay marriage).
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/uncategorized/a-flip-flop-trump-now-supports-second-amendment
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/make-america-great-again#.foPLXladA
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights
That's exactly my point. And I would like to ask Trump supporters, do you really believe Trump is pro-Second Amendment and if so, what convinces you of that? Is it because of his statements on the 2-A from this campaign, or is it something else? What gives you that confidence?
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That's exactly my point. And I would like to ask Trump supporters, do you really believe Trump is pro-Second Amendment and if so, what convinces you of that? Is it because of his statements on the 2-A from this campaign, or is it something else? What gives you that confidence?
I'm not sure that Trump fully supports the 2nd Amendment. Do I think he supports the right to gun ownership? Yes. Do I think he believes there should be limitations? Based on past comments, I'd have to lean towards yes. I also think that events and politics will drive his view on this. I trust Cruz and Rubio more on the 2nd Amendment than I do Trump.
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Obama doesn't like the 2A, doesn't mean he can unilaterally change it.
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Obama doesn't like the 2A, doesn't mean he can unilaterally change it.
See attached pic
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See attached pic
Suuuuuuurrrrrreeeeee.
Let's ignore reality and pretend republicans are merely the party of No.
While we are at it, we can pretend that hillary is the epitome of truth, bill is the epitome of faithfulness, .....
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See attached pic
Come on Jaybird; you are better than that.
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Like Chris Christie, Trump has flip flopped on the 2A over the years even saying he is OK with a "assault weapons ban". Well assault weapon are just semi auto rifles like many others. That bothers me about Trump.