PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Number7 on December 07, 2020, 06:01:26 PM
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...and time them traitors.
Today I began speaking truth to communism.
Every weak minded, cowardly republican and communist (democrat) that spoke against the obvious truth that the communist party (I will never refer to a democrat as anything but a communist again), heard me challenged their lies and deciding, with the truth.
It is treason and they are traitors.
That goes for every poster here that is obsessed with going along to get along.
Communism is a sickness and the democrat party is simply another form of communism.
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Well, you should get to it then.
Before you start throwing that word around, make sure you are using it correctly. Someone who disagrees with your idea of the United States is not a traitor.
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Well, you should get to it then.
Before you start throwing that word around, make sure you are using it correctly. Someone who disagrees with your idea of the United States is not a traitor.
On one hand the constitution defines it thusly:
“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”
On the other hand dictionaries contain broader colloquial definitions, such as this one from online Merriam-Webster:
Definition of treason
1 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family
2 : the betrayal of a trust : TREACHERY
Merriam-Webster has an article on the word - the definition in the U.S. Constitution for legal purposes isn’t even that clear, according to it. Even Thomas Jefferson used it in a broader sense than the constitution defines. The older meaning “betrayal of trust” or “any act (overt or covert) to overthrow the government”, a meaning found in some other online dictionaries, seem to best fit Number7’s usage.
Merriam-Webster’s article: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-treason-word-history-usage (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-treason-word-history-usage)
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Well, you should get to it then.
Before you start throwing that word around, make sure you are using it correctly. Someone who disagrees with your idea of the United States is not a traitor.
Sedition is probably a better fit.
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Sedition is probably a better fit.
Isn't that what some of the Trump supporters advocate, i.e., rebel against the state?
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Isn't that what some of the Trump supporters advocate, i.e., rebel against the state?
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
-Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
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Isn't that what some of the Trump supporters advocate, i.e., rebel against the state?
Has the State become tyrannical, oppressive and doing Unconstitutional (illegal) things? I think several States have been doing that, and not only with Covid restrictions, gun laws, and other things, as have the Feds.
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Sedition is probably a better fit.
Actually what is taking place in this country right now is treason. We have people, foreign and domestic that are actively trying to overthrow our government using an election by manipulating it. Many of those domestic types are being aided by foreigners, and those foreign nations are committing acts of war against our country.
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https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1336117667015630849
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Actually what is taking place in this country right now is treason. We have people, foreign and domestic that are actively trying to overthrow our government using an election by manipulating it. Many of those domestic types are being aided by foreigners, and those foreign nations are committing acts of war against our country.
Yes, I think it fits, now that I think about it more. Sedition isn't really a good fit after reading the definition again, although elements of it probably do. The Democrats, the MEDIA and foreign manipulators are attempting a COUP and winning.
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https://therightscoop.com/watch-tucker-exposes-scrubbed-video-of-chinese-professor-saying-they-have-people-at-top-of-america/
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And for the record, Avios is a hard left publication.
https://www.axios.com/china-spy-california-politicians-9d2dfb99-f839-4e00-8bd8-59dec0daf589.html
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https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/08/chinese-spy-eric-swalwell-christine-fang/
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-Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence
-Thomas Jefferson
oh, don't get me wrong. Sometimes it can be imperative.
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oh, don't get me wrong. Sometimes it can be imperative.
The founders realized that down the road there could be massive threats, and they made it clear that if it happened for the citizens to dispose of that government and replace it. Thus one reason we have the second amendment.
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https://bigleaguepolitics.com/china-is-using-campus-groups-to-silence-anti-ccp-discourse-at-american-universities/
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Actually what is taking place in this country right now is treason. We have people, foreign and domestic that are actively trying to overthrow our government using an election by manipulating it. Many of those domestic types are being aided by foreigners, and those foreign nations are committing acts of war against our country.
So you assert that people who support Biden want to take over, do away with the Constitution and rule by force of...what? If they're ignoring laws, the courts will eventually force them down.
What I'm afraid of is that they will use the Constitution to change laws to execute on their own personal bigotry. But that wouldn't be treason, it would be just be them beating you.
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So you assert that people who support Biden want to take over, do away with the Constitution and rule by force of...what? If they're ignoring laws, the courts will eventually force them down.
You simply want to ignore the elephant in the room. This is not about who won, this is about how our election process has been compromised and is under full assault. Ignoring this and moving on to be "gentlemanly" will destroy our country and election process and plunge us as a country into a banana republic.
What I'm afraid of is that they will use the Constitution to change laws to execute on their own personal bigotry. But that wouldn't be treason, it would be just be them beating you.
Again, you are ignoring the huge elephant in the room.
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So have people seen the news about Kemp’s daughter’s boyfriend Harrison Deal dying in a fiery car crash? Engine block landed several hundred feet away. That’s a car bomb, folks.
Deal was also a staffer for Loeffler.
Woke up in the night last night and thought ... this was a message for Kemp. He has four daughters. The message: This time it was your daughter’s boyfriend. Next time it’s your daughter.
Change my mind.
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They’re telling him to keep certifying and to stop all investigations into fraud.
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So have people seen the news about Kemp’s daughter’s boyfriend Harrison Deal dying in a fiery car crash? Engine block landed several hundred feet away. That’s a car bomb, folks.
Deal was also a staffer for Loeffler.
Woke up in the night last night and thought ... this was a message for Kemp. He has four daughters. The message: This time it was your daughter’s boyfriend. Next time it’s your daughter.
Change my mind.
I have been thinking that but didn’t want to bring it up.
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Pussies will be along to poo poo it and make light of anyone wondering how dirty the communist Chinese in and outside the American government will play.
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Number 7 wouldn't know Communism if it bit him in the Ass. It's just a word he bandies about without the slightest understanding of it's meaning.
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Number 7 wouldn't know Communism if it bit him in the Ass. It's just a word he bandies about without the slightest understanding of it's meaning.
Let me guess. You’re going to say that if government doesn’t own the means of production then it’s not communism, right? If that’s not right then what is it?
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You simply want to ignore the elephant in the room. This is not about who won, this is about how our election process has been compromised and is under full assault. Ignoring this and moving on to be "gentlemanly" will destroy our country and election process and plunge us as a country into a banana republic.
Again, you are ignoring the huge elephant in the room.
Is there such a thing as a non huge elephant?
I'm not ignoring that there are irregularities in elections. This election has proven that there ARE issues and maybe now those issues will be addressed. Laws were not followed and people need to be held accountable for that, possibly prohibited from performing that task in the future. More likely adding oversight, for example allowing 24x7 poll watching until ballots are counted and election is certified. We should have systems that defy attempts to inject ballots.
Once again, as we did 4 years ago, there are questions about the integrity of voter rolls -> ballots -> votes. Every illegal ballot counted is a legal vote nullified, but the systems today do not permit auditing. That's a huge issue and one that every state should be addressing. We have secrecy in voting, but I believe we have made the mistake of treating secrecy as anonymity. Today, once a ballot exists, it is impossible to tell a valid ballot from an invalid one. We need to tighten up the voter rolls and ensure that it is impossible to add ballots after the fact.
But is this treason or incompetence? The topic of this thread is treason, remember?
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But is this treason or incompetence? The topic of this thread is treason, remember?
just a side comment: this is Pilot Spin, not POA. We are allowed, perhaps even encouraged, to have thread drift. :-)
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just a side comment: this is Pilot Spin, not POA. We are allowed, perhaps even encouraged, to have thread drift. :-)
Lol.
Of course. But changing the argument as a matter of spin will also get called out. The thread literally went like this in 4 posts:
"This is treason!"
"You're just sore because you got beat"
"You don't understand - the election isn't valid"
"Yes, but is it because of treason or incompetence"
That isn't drift, it's trying to walk back a statement after being nailed down on a spectacular statement that cannot justified.
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But is this treason or incompetence? The topic of this thread is treason, remember?
So you are saying there is no evidence of foreign interference in this election?
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Lol.
Of course. But changing the argument as a matter of spin will also get called out.
And is nothing new on the interweb... :-)
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The thread literally went like this in 4 posts:
"This is treason!"
"You're just sore because you got beat"
"You don't understand - the election isn't valid"
"Yes, but is it because of treason or incompetence"
That isn't drift, it's trying to walk back a statement after being nailed down on a spectacular statement that cannot justified.
Are you saying the purposeful use of Mail In Voting to commit voter fraud through manufactured ballots, and fake votes is mere incompetence, not Treason? All justified by a trumped up Virus over reaction. This is the deliberate manipulation of an election with probable foreign influence and money.
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Let me guess. You’re going to say that if government doesn’t own the means of production then it’s not communism, right? If that’s not right then what is it?
He believes police, fire, and the military is socialism, so......
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Laws were not followed and people need to be held accountable for that, possibly prohibited from performing that task in the future.
Wow, you’re hard core - the Judge Roy Bean of Pilot Spin.
I hope I end up in your court if I commit a felony.
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Are you saying the purposeful use of Mail In Voting to commit voter fraud through manufactured ballots, and fake votes is mere incompetence, not Treason? All justified by a trumped up Virus over reaction. This is the deliberate manipulation of an election with probable foreign influence and money.
The only way to confirm one person, one vote is to go back to same day, in-person voting, with valid photo ID. No college ID as they doesn’t show residence of record. No same-day registration. No provisional ballots. No advanced voting. No Mail-in ballots. If you want an absentee ballot, you must have a verifiable need and only allowed in circumstances beyond your control, such as military being deployed overseas. Being on vacation in Mexico doesn’t count as a valid excuse.
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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/grenell-secret-intelligence-shows-much-more-on-us-china-collusion
Former acting Director of National Intelligence Richard Grenell said that China is a "top" security concern and claimed there is "much more" to U.S.-Chinese relations.
Grenell, the current special presidential envoy for Serbia and Kosovo peace negotiations, made the comment on Twitter Tuesday morning following a segment on Tucker Carlson Tonight that the host dedicated to the threat that the Chinese government poses to the United States.
"This is a must watch," he said of the segment. "Everyone in the intel community knows that China is a top US national security concern. And there is so much more that we can’t say."
During the segment, Carlson played a clip of Di Donsheng, a professor at Renmin University in Beijing, claiming that the Chinese Communist Party has people “at the top of America’s core inner circle of power and influence.” The video was deleted off of China's social media platforms shortly after it was uploaded.
Di claimed, according to Carlson, that the people they have in the top levels of the U.S. government have been less successful in their espionage attempts since President Trump was elected.
"But the problem is that after 2008, the status of Wall Street has declined, and more importantly, after 2016, Wall Street can't fix Trump," he said. "Why? It's very awkward. Trump had a previous soft default issue with Wall Street, so there was a conflict between them. But I won't go into details. I may not have enough time. So, during the U.S.-China trade war, they [Wall Street] tried to help. And I know that — my friends on the U.S. side told me that they tried to help, but they couldn't do much."
On Monday, Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe warned that while China has not caught up with the U.S. as the world’s foremost superpower, policymakers should not be complacent in the face of the rising threat that the country poses.
“China knows that, at this point, the United States is still the world’s superpower. They know they’re catching us in all those respects. They’re banking on the fact that we’re not going to do anything until they're superior in all those respects,” Ratcliffe said. “We don’t ever want to be in a position where we're looking up at China. And all of the plans that they have, all of the initiatives made in China, the digital Silk Road, Belt and Road Initiative — those are all thin veneers and facades for which China is going around the world and essentially gaining the influence, power to become the world superpower and supplant the United States in that role.”
Carlson's segment, and Grenell's tease of additional information, coincided with an Axios report that a female Chinese spy targeted a host of politicians nationwide, including California officials and congressmen, Midwestern mayors, and more.
https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1336327964019937284
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The only way to confirm one person, one vote is to go back to same day, in-person voting, with valid photo ID. No college ID as they doesn’t show residence of record. No same-day registration. No provisional ballots. No advanced voting. No Mail-in ballots. If you want an absentee ballot, you must have a verifiable need and only allowed in circumstances beyond your control, such as military being deployed overseas. Being on vacation in Mexico doesn’t count as a valid excuse.
Exactly!!!
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Wow, you’re hard core - the Judge Roy Bean of Pilot Spin.
I hope I end up in your court if I commit a felony.
Depends on what you did.
If you injected 1.4 million ballots, 99% of which go for Biden, then you'll spend the rest of your life breaking rocks into gravel, making concrete and then breaking that apart into rocks. Show who did this (fingerprints on the ballots?) and let's fit a sledgehammer for them.
If you just didn't follow procedures, then you're going to be banned from participating.
Either way, there needs to be a focus on fixing this, securing elections and making sure only valid electors are voting.
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Number 7 wouldn't know Communism if it bit him in the Ass. It's just a word he bandies about without the slightest understanding of it's meaning.
Does your vagina hurt?
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Are you saying the purposeful use of Mail In Voting to commit voter fraud through manufactured ballots, and fake votes is mere incompetence, not Treason? All justified by a trumped up Virus over reaction. This is the deliberate manipulation of an election with probable foreign influence and money.
I suspect He is saying that he got his feelings hurt by a tweet from President Trump, therefore it justifies treason and calling treason is mean.
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I suspect He is saying that he got his feelings hurt by a tweet from President Trump, therefore it justifies treason and calling treason is mean.
I am saying that treason has a very serious and specific definition and you cheapen it by throwing the word around to justify a loss. Your side got beat and you’re not enough of a man to face it.
Treason is reserved for people who attack the country, not people who hurt you.
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I am saying that treason has a very serious and specific definition and you cheapen it by throwing the word around to justify a loss. Your side got beat and you’re not enough of a man to face it.
Treason is reserved for people who attack the country, not people who hurt you.
Your premise is our side got beat fairly. If we got beat through cheating, and you knew the cheating for a fact, would you still say we need to get over it and concede?
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I am saying that treason has a very serious and specific definition and you cheapen it by throwing the word around to justify a loss. Your side got beat and you’re not enough of a man to face it.
Treason is reserved for people who attack the country, not people who hurt you.
Massive Election fraud is treason. The push for mail in voting with the excuse of the Virus enabled it.. The Democrats are owned by the Chinese and other foreigners. That's Treason. So you are wrong.
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Your premise is our side got beat fairly. If we got beat through cheating, and you knew the cheating for a fact, would you still say we need to get over it and concede?
IF Republicans lost because of cheating then I wouldn't be where I am. But there is no proof, you cannot even show the mechanism of how it happened with evidence. Maybe that's because elections are too loose and there is an inability to audit them after the fact to detect cheating. But regardless, you cannot prove any assertions that have been made.
Also, the Supreme Court is never going to tell a state that their election was invalid, not even a 5.5 to 3.5 court. Continuing to chase that is costing you credibility and may cost you Georgia.
An opportunity - pick your best case and lay out the hard evidence. Show me. But if you fail, realize that your best case can't be proven, maybe you're wrong.
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I am saying that treason has a very serious and specific definition and you cheapen it by throwing the word around to justify a loss.
So does "racist." But your ilk uses it constantly to shut down legitimate debate.
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So does "racist." But your ilk uses it constantly to shut down legitimate debate.
"Your ilk". I'm not sure what ilk you have assigned to me, but I'm pretty sure you don't have it correct.
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"Your ilk". I'm not sure what ilk you have assigned to me, but I'm pretty sure you don't have it correct.
Those who identify as "Lieberals"
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Those who identify as "Lieberals"
That's a lower case "L". Liberal and liberal are almost complete opposites now. Politically, I'm a moderate liberal and independent.
Still can't call it treason just because it didn't turn out how you wanted. That's what leftists and democrats do.
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That's a lower case "L". Liberal and liberal are almost complete opposites now. Politically, I'm a moderate liberal and independent.
Still can't call it treason just because it didn't turn out how you wanted. That's what leftists and democrats do.
You still don't get it. There is NO way to control or verify Mail In Votes when so many states had no effective rules or ways to verify they were real. So, we know the Dems use fraudulent voting tactics. Do you really think Democrat controlled States like mine, PA would let that opportunity go to waste? If you do then you are the most naive Liberal I know.
Wake up, grow up and smarten up.
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That's a lower case "L". Liberal and liberal are almost complete opposites now. Politically, I'm a moderate liberal and independent.
Still can't call it treason just because it didn't turn out how you wanted. That's what leftists and democrats do.
But it DID turn out how we wanted. Then it was snatched away from us after 11:00 pm. There is no way in hell Biden won.
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But it DID turn out how we wanted. Then it was snatched away from us after 11:00 pm. There is no way in hell Biden won.
Consider there are over 1000 signed sworn affidavits detailing election fraud, several renowned computer experts have given detailed analysis of the improbability of vote counts, thousands of records of dead people voting, prisoners voting, hundreds of people voting using the same address of an empty lot, people voting in states in which they are not residents, underage voters, etc, etc.
Yet the mantra is “no credible evidence”...... to which now has changed to “well, not enough evidence to change the outcome”.
BTW, read the Texas lawsuit and he details how each state indeed has a determinative outcome.
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You still don't get it. There is NO way to control or verify Mail In Votes when so many states had no effective rules or ways to verify they were real. So, we know the Dems use fraudulent voting tactics. Do you really think Democrat controlled States like mine, PA would let that opportunity go to waste? If you do then you are the most naive Liberal I know.
Wake up, grow up and smarten up.
Why do you think I don’t understand and why is your reaction to move to insults?
The governor of PA overstepped his authority and screwed up the election. But that doesn’t invalidate the election, it doesn’t appear that his mistake caused anything unfair. Did he order ballots only mailed to Democrats? Did he instruct poll workers to throw away ballots? If I’m wrong, tell me what happened and prove it.
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Then it was snatched away from us after 11:00 pm.
HOW? When they counted and numbers went strongly for Biden because Democrats stayed home and mailed ballots? Why must that have been fraudulent and not just how it came out?
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HOW? When they counted and numbers went strongly for Biden because Democrats stayed home and mailed ballots? Why must that have been fraudulent and not just how it came out?
Statistical analysis as well as a lot of other evidence shows that no, mail in ballots were not all for Biden because for some unfathonable reason only Democrats wanted to stay home and mail in their vote.
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Why do you think I don’t understand and why is your reaction to move to insults?
The governor of PA overstepped his authority and screwed up the election. But that doesn’t invalidate the election, it doesn’t appear that his mistake caused anything unfair. Did he order ballots only mailed to Democrats? Did he instruct poll workers to throw away ballots? If I’m wrong, tell me what happened and prove it.
Well you equated us with Leftists and Democrats for seeing the obvious. That's an insult. The rules the Governor implemented and corrupt Democrat controlled court upheld allowed fraud. Why they heck else would he do that?
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You don’t hide what you’re doing unless you don’t want to get caught doing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31obYct7Q7I&feature=emb_title
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You don’t hide what you’re doing unless you don’t want to get caught doing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31obYct7Q7I&feature=emb_title
I want to know why Youtube has removed the “the AP has said Biden won!” notice.
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Why do you think I don’t understand and why is your reaction to move to insults?
The governor of PA overstepped his authority and screwed up the election. But that doesn’t invalidate the election, it doesn’t appear that his mistake caused anything unfair. Did he order ballots only mailed to Democrats? Did he instruct poll workers to throw away ballots? If I’m wrong, tell me what happened and prove it.
He violated the law by making changes he wasn't entitled to make. Does that not mean anything to you?
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He violated the law by making changes he wasn't entitled to make. Does that not mean anything to you?
Laws don't count anymore, we'll just roll with feelings.
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He violated the law by making changes he wasn't entitled to make. Does that not mean anything to you?
Yeah?
Well Trump said something mean on Twitter. So there!
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Maybe bflynn can point out where in the PA Constitution it say the Governor or Supreme Court can make a change to the election process.
I'll be here waiting.
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He violated the law by making changes he wasn't entitled to make. Does that not mean anything to you?
Yes, I am a huge proponent of law. The governor was wrong and he was corrected. He extended the mail in ballot deadline, was told it wrong, was told to segregate the late ballots and they weren't counted. The one single thing that might be open still is that he ordered ballots mailed out to everyone, but there is no way to correct that short of the Supreme Court telling PA that this time, their people don't count. Do you really want to open that door for Democrats when it won't matter? I am curious - did the ballots only get mailed to Democrats? (question) Is that why 99% of them came back voting for Biden?
Otherwise - there's a claim that they received more mail in ballots than they sent out, but this is false, it mixes the count of ballots mailed during the primary with the count of ballots received during the election.
The president's campaign was told - by a Trump appointed judge - to produce evidence. They couldn't.
I've asked here multiple times. I'm getting nothing here either.
Reminder - I don't have a dog in the fight except for the Republic. Law is my guideline and the campaign has had many, many chances in courts to avail themselves of law. They just don't have evidence to be able to do that.
I see huge incompetence, all the way from the governor down to some poll workers. But that isn't treason and it isn't even necessarily criminal. It is absolutely immoral to know that a process is this broken and do nothing to correct it.
But the voters of PA got what they voted for. Maybe in 2 years someone can run against this guy and remind everyone of how this guy's hubris screwed things up so badly and made PA look so incompetent.
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I want to know why Youtube has removed the “the AP has said Biden won!” notice.
Maybe because it violates their own suddenly imposed policy of not mentioning fraud!!!!
Censored by their own algorithm, perhaps. 😁
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...
But the voters of PA got what they voted for.
you don't know that. You can't know that. The election was screwed up. As a result (no pun), you can't determine a winner.
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Yes, I am a huge proponent of law. The governor was wrong and he was corrected. He extended the mail in ballot deadline, was told it wrong, was told to segregate the late ballots and they weren't counted. The one single thing that might be open still is that he ordered ballots mailed out to everyone, but there is no way to correct that short of the Supreme Court telling PA that this time, their people don't count. Do you really want to open that door for Democrats when it won't matter? I am curious - did the ballots only get mailed to Democrats? (question) Is that why 99% of them came back voting for Biden?
Otherwise - there's a claim that they received more mail in ballots than they sent out, but this is false, it mixes the count of ballots mailed during the primary with the count of ballots received during the election.
The president's campaign was told - by a Trump appointed judge - to produce evidence. They couldn't.
I've asked here multiple times. I'm getting nothing here either.
Reminder - I don't have a dog in the fight except for the Republic. Law is my guideline and the campaign has had many, many chances in courts to avail themselves of law. They just don't have evidence to be able to do that.
I see huge incompetence, all the way from the governor down to some poll workers. But that isn't treason and it isn't even necessarily criminal. It is absolutely immoral to know that a process is this broken and do nothing to correct it.
But the voters of PA got what they voted for. Maybe in 2 years someone can run against this guy and remind everyone of how this guy's hubris screwed things up so badly and made PA look so incompetent.
So the voters of PA voted for massive voter fraud and a rigged Presidential election and a Coup?
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Hahaha!!
(http://)
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Is that social media fact checking a bullshit post?
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So the voters of PA voted for massive voter fraud and a rigged Presidential election and a Coup?
They voted for an self centered governor who tried to - maybe did - put party and fear over what was good for the people of his state. Shame on them for not recognizing it.
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Why do you think I don’t understand and why is your reaction to move to insults?
The governor of PA overstepped his authority and screwed up the election. But that doesn’t invalidate the election, it doesn’t appear that his mistake caused anything unfair. Did he order ballots only mailed to Democrats? Did he instruct poll workers to throw away ballots? If I’m wrong, tell me what happened and prove it.
The governors actions do in fact invalidate all votes cast under his overstepping of authority. How can it not?
The law is the law. Any vote cast outside of the four corners of the law should be rejected. Anything else is abetting fraud, which is precisely what the PA Supreme Court did.
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The governors actions do in fact invalidate all votes cast under his overstepping of authority. How can it not?
The law is the law. Any vote cast outside of the four corners of the law should be rejected. Anything else is abetting fraud, which is precisely what the PA Supreme Court did.
To the heart of the matter, if we, as a union, allow a rogue state executive and SSC to invalidate their election laws to sway an election, it in turn violates the US constitution on equal treatment.
We as voters in the free states obeyed the laws and value our votes, one person one vote. These 4 states named in the Texas Lawsuit (plus others) are trying to dilute our votes and render them useless by usurping the laws.
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To the heart of the matter, if we, as a union, allow a rogue state executive and SSC to invalidate their election laws to sway an election, it in turn violates the US constitution on equal treatment.
We as voters in the free states obeyed the laws and value our votes, one person one vote. These 4 states named in the Texas Lawsuit (plus others) are trying to dilute our votes and render them useless by usurping the laws.
Even if fraud did not occur, this invalidates the election result.
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Even if fraud did not occur, this invalidates the election result.
Correct. This is at the heart of all of this. It's no longer "who won", it's about election integrity. Without election integrity we lose a major component of our constitution. The founding fathers did not intend on giving any state more control over other states, which this effectively does.
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Correct. This is at the heart of all of this. It's no longer "who won", it's about election integrity. Without election integrity we lose a major component of our constitution. The founding fathers did not intend on giving any state more control over other states, which this effectively does.
Bingo. This must go forward. Some Justices of the USSC will attempt to look at the political implications of this case, and allow that to shape their decision to not intervene. They cannot do that. This case will determine whether we will remain a republic, or turn into an oligarchy.
Invalidating the votes of the citizens of GA, PA, MI and WI (and thus turning over that power to their legislatures) may just save the right of the people to once again have confidence in the integrity of their vote.
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If there is no integrity in the election process, we have no country.
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If there is no integrity in the election process, we have no country.
Exactly.
This is why I'm alarmed to see "Your guy lost, get over it" comments as these people are showing they have no clue to the severity of this problem and are willing to accept it and move on.
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To the heart of the matter, if we, as a union, allow a rogue state executive and SSC to invalidate their election laws to sway an election, it in turn violates the US constitution on equal treatment.
I am highly doubtful that they will get 5 Supreme Court justices to agree.
Did they intend to sway the election or was that a byproduct? Could they have known what that outcome would be?
The PA governor at least was trying to score points with those (mostly Democrats) cowering in their basements. I don't know what the complaints about the other states were.
I suppose the question comes down to malice or incompetence and I don't believe it's possible to prove malice.
In any case, I'm out, there's nothing to be gained talking about more. Prediction, the SC will not take the Texas case or if they do, they will not rule for Texas, but use it as a warning shot for states to follow laws. The Court is not going to invalidate a state's election.
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I am highly doubtful that they will get 5 Supreme Court justices to agree.
Did they intend to sway the election or was that a byproduct? Could they have known what that outcome would be?
The PA governor at least was trying to score points with those (mostly Democrats) cowering in their basements. I don't know what the complaints about the other states were.
I suppose the question comes down to malice or incompetence and I don't believe it's possible to prove malice.
In any case, I'm out, there's nothing to be gained talking about more. Prediction, the SC will not take the Texas case or if they do, they will not rule for Texas, but use it as a warning shot for states to follow laws. The Court is not going to invalidate a state's election.
The SC is not being asked to "invalidate" an election. The SC is being asked to rule on the constitutionality of how 4 states violated the US Constitution and the effects it has had on our election process. A possible decision (and the one I believe will happen) is the SC will reinforce the power of the constitution to the state legislatures for them to decide on how to proceed without interference of the executive and judicial.
That could result is a) Declaring a new election, b) trying to salvage the existing election results by only counting votes cast in accordance with applicable state laws, c) invalidating the state election and the legislature choose the electors, or d) invalidating the election and sending no electors.
Personally I see (d) as the answer, and letting the constitution take over and send the election to the house of representatives.
As for intent on swaying an election, it is incredulous to believe that in 6+ states that individuals all decided on their own to quickly intercede and rewrite election laws that would open the state up to massive fraud. The body of evidence now indicates a heavily concerted effort to manipulate votes across state lines. Also the statistical and electronic forensics also indicate that this was well planned out.
This was orchestrated under the guise of covid and "never let a crisis go to waste".
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Historically voter fraud and intimidation has occurred throughout U.S. history. The various political machines can run for decades in spite of attempts to remove them. I did a quick web search using keywords of political machines I was aware of (Chicago Boston New York political machines Daley) to find historical summaries, and one of the first hits was this interesting article, which mentions some of the current alleged techniques :
https://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/bosses.htm (https://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/bosses.htm)
It actually includes some that I was unaware of. Anyway, the point of my post is that well run political machines can survive against attack for decades even when attacked from outside.
I think if they were handed the task of deciding the election by the SCOTUS, the Republican House legislators of the contested states would follow whatever political winds blow strongest - which is not necessarily going to favor Trump. As for the other states - it would be political suicide for the legislators to vote contrary to the popular presidential vote in their states.
IMHO anyone who believes that Trump would invoke any use of martial law or the military actually doesn't understand the president.