PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: asechrest on March 25, 2016, 09:08:46 PM
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No more wars! Cool Great idea. Fantastic.
Tell it to ISIS.
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World peace? Is he running for president or Miss USA?
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Everybody will love him so much that they will not want to fight anymore, just get along. Sound familiar?
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No more wars! Cool Great idea. Fantastic.
Tell it to ISIS.
Stop funding one side against the other side. The history of America and the banking industry has been to pit peoples survival interests against political policy. War is inevitable when you do that!
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Oh jeez... now Trump will have to get trained falcons to land on either arm during his tough guy speeches. ::) Pretty soon we will see candidates worrying about the "bird" gap.
I do have to say though, that little bird was pretty cool.
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Stop funding one side against the other side. The history of America and the banking industry has been to pit peoples survival interests against political policy. War is inevitable when you do that!
Henning? Is that you?
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No more wars! Cool Great idea. Fantastic.
Tell it to ISIS.
Who cares about ISIS? I agree with Bernie in the sense that there should be no more optional American wars of foreign adventure. Since WWII we have been choosing to fight wars overseas, none of which actually threatened the United States or it's people. The closest was the Cuban Missile Crisis and that wasn't a war thankfully.
Syria is not US territory. Iraq is not US territory. The people living and suffering there are not US citizens and many here don't want them ever to be. ISIS is not our fight. Just because there is a conflict in the world, doesn't mean we have to be involved.
You guys keep going on about how if you incentivize an action with subsidies, you just get more of the same. We need to end military welfare to the rest of the world. Just think of how much faster we could pay off the national debt and balance the budget if we weren't on a war footing all over the globe. No where in the constitution does it say we need to fight other people's wars for them.
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Can't we all get along?
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Who cares about ISIS?
A lot of people. They are expanding their territory and are no longer a regional threat, but a world threat. They attack anyone who does not fall in line with their ideology. They are brutal.
Syria is not US territory. Iraq is not US territory. The people living and suffering there are not US citizens and many here don't want them ever to be. ISIS is not our fight. Just because there is a conflict in the world, doesn't mean we have to be involved.
It is our fight, whether we like it or not. Burying your head in the sand and pretending like it isn't our fight doesn't make it so. That's currently the policy of President Obama. ISIS blows up an airport and kills scores of people and he embraces a brutal, communist dictator and then does the tango in Argentina. Notice that I haven't said we should invade Syria but I do think we need to be on the offensive against ISIS.
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Henning? Is that you?
No, he's just discovered all the same goofy stuff Henning did. When you discover such a neat little cause for all the world's suffering, you just have to share it with everybody.
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A lot of people. They are expanding their territory and are no longer a regional threat, but a world threat. They attack anyone who does not fall in line with their ideology. They are brutal.
How so? Think about it. The threat isn't an organization, or a country, or an army. It's an idea. You can't invade Syria and Iraq and kill this idea. Sorry, you just can't. The best approach is to marginalize the idea. Bombing the hell out of ISIS does the exact opposite, it strengthens the idea.
They are brutal, but they are brutal over there to people that aren't US citizens. We also don't need to stoop to their level of brutality.
It is our fight, whether we like it or not. Burying your head in the sand and pretending like it isn't our fight doesn't make it so.
I said nothing about burying our heads, or pretending it isn't there. We of course should remain vigilant and apprised of what's going on in the world. When ISIS landing craft hit the shores of Florida, we'll be ready. Until then, let the Europeans and Russians have at it. Let's see how well they can kill an idea with bombs and we see where the focus of future ISIS suicide attacks will occur.
Unfortunately, the way to marginalize, or even kill the idea, must come from the international Muslim community, not America. By letting Arabs fight Arabs and Muslims fight Muslims the fight becomes one of a Muslim concern and if more and more Muslim territory falls to ISIL, then perhaps the Muslims of the world will get off the dime, organize and work to kill this idea that springs from their own beliefs.
What are we worried about? Losing a cheap oil supply? Aren't we beyond that now?
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How so? Think about it. The threat isn't an organization, or a country, or an army. It's an idea. You can't invade Syria and Iraq and kill this idea. Sorry, you just can't. The best approach is to marginalize the idea. Bombing the hell out of ISIS does the exact opposite, it strengthens the idea.
You're talking about two separate issues. The first, the overarching one, is the ideology of radical Islamic terrorists. You are correct that the only way win against that is to destroy the ideology, which is difficult. However, ISIS is an actual organization, a loose country and does have an army. Invading a country won't stop an idea but it can stop the individuals who are part of the organization, country and army. Fight them on their territory and force them to defend their land, not force us to defend ours. Just to be clear, when I say fight them on their land and not ours, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be our military invading the country.
They are brutal, but they are brutal over there to people that aren't US citizens. We also don't need to stoop to their level of brutality.
Tell that to the two dead Americans (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/03/25/kerry-holds-counter-terrorism-talks-brussels/82245744/) who died in the Belgium attacks.
I said nothing about burying our heads, or pretending it isn't there. We of course should remain vigilant and apprised of what's going on in the world. When ISIS landing craft hit the shores of Florida, we'll be ready. Until then, let the Europeans and Russians have at it. Let's see how well they can kill an idea with bombs and we see where the focus of future ISIS suicide attacks will occur.
That's what you're advocating doing when you suggest we do nothing but stay aware of what's going on. We don't have to wait for "ISIS landing craft" to "hit the shores of Florida", they're already here. The Europeans may finally be starting to realize that something needs to be done about ISIS now that attacks are occurring on their soil but I'm not seeing a lot of action from them yet. The same goes for the Russians. They just pulled out of Syria.
Unfortunately, the way to marginalize, or even kill the idea, must come from the international Muslim community, not America. By letting Arabs fight Arabs and Muslims fight Muslims the fight becomes one of a Muslim concern and if more and more Muslim territory falls to ISIL, then perhaps the Muslims of the world will get off the dime, organize and work to kill this idea that springs from their own beliefs.
I agree with part of this. You're right that the international Muslim community needs to come together and stand up against it but you don't see that happening. Why? Is it because they believe in the ideology? Is it because they that if they take a stand against them they will be the next targets?
What are we worried about? Losing a cheap oil supply? Aren't we beyond that now?
The oil argument is tired and old.
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The oil argument is tired and old.
And incorrect.
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Henning? Is that you?
No, Henning would have said "European banking" as his code for Jews
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Who cares about ISIS? I agree with Bernie in the sense that there should be no more optional American wars of foreign adventure. Since WWII we have been choosing to fight wars overseas, none of which actually threatened the United States or it's people. The closest was the Cuban Missile Crisis and that wasn't a war thankfully.
Syria is not US territory. Iraq is not US territory. The people living and suffering there are not US citizens and many here don't want them ever to be. ISIS is not our fight. Just because there is a conflict in the world, doesn't mean we have to be involved.
You guys keep going on about how if you incentivize an action with subsidies, you just get more of the same. We need to end military welfare to the rest of the world. Just think of how much faster we could pay off the national debt and balance the budget if we weren't on a war footing all over the globe. No where in the constitution does it say we need to fight other people's wars for them.
Ever hear of a little country in western Europe called "Germany"? How much of a threat were they to US in 1939?
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How do you marginalize something like this? These people are migrating all over and multiplying like freaking rabbits compared to the population the move into. Within a decade they will have taken over a large portion of Europe.
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How do you marginalize something like this? These people are migrating all over and multiplying like freaking rabbits compared to the population the move into. Within a decade they will have taken over a large portion of Europe.
Who are "these people" you are speaking of? What makes you think they will have taken over "a large part of Europe" in ten years? A hunch? A guess? Why can't Europe worry about Europe? Why should I care if they take over Europe when Europe doesn't care? Do you think the Europeans are powerless to deal with it?
Europe has a long, long history with the Islamic world. We do not. Europe is partly to blame for their troubles. We should watch and learn. What happens in Europe doesn't need to happen here.
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Who are "these people" you are speaking of? What makes you think they will have taken over "a large part of Europe" in ten years? A hunch? A guess? Why can't Europe worry about Europe? Why should I care if they take over Europe when Europe doesn't care? Do you think the Europeans are powerless to deal with it?
Europe has a long, long history with the Islamic world. We do not. Europe is partly to blame for their troubles. We should watch and learn. What happens in Europe doesn't need to happen here.
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/02/06/pew-fertility-rate-for-muslims-and-non-muslims-in-europe/
"Pew: Fertility Rate for Muslims vs. Non-Muslims in Europe"
What do you think to outcome of that chart says?
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Who are "these people" you are speaking of? What makes you think they will have taken over "a large part of Europe" in ten years? A hunch? A guess? Why can't Europe worry about Europe? Why should I care if they take over Europe when Europe doesn't care? Do you think the Europeans are powerless to deal with it?
Europe has a long, long history with the Islamic world. We do not. Europe is partly to blame for their troubles. We should watch and learn. What happens in Europe doesn't need to happen here.
(http://www.jbott.com/rose_colored_glasses1.jpg)
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Who are "these people" you are speaking of? What makes you think they will have taken over "a large part of Europe" in ten years? A hunch? A guess? Why can't Europe worry about Europe? Why should I care if they take over Europe when Europe doesn't care? Do you think the Europeans are powerless to deal with it?
Europe has a long, long history with the Islamic world. We do not. Europe is partly to blame for their troubles. We should watch and learn. What happens in Europe doesn't need to happen here.
Simple. Given the mass amounts of refugees flooding European countries, there's going to be those who are already radicalized and embedded (they blend in already), those who become radicalized and those who are just overall disenfranchised. ISIS will use this discontent to spread the ideology.
I get it, you're an isolationist but to say we should do nothing is setting us up for failure. What do you propose we do, other than bury our heads in the sand and pretend that nothing bad will happen to the U.S. if we just ignore the problems in Europe?
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(http://www.jbott.com/rose_colored_glasses1.jpg)
Please elaborate on your dip shit meme. Am I claiming the world is all OK? Am I claiming ISIS is actually misunderstood and not brutal at all?? Am I claiming ISIS is our new best friends?
Rose colored glasses implies that I think all is right with the world. This not the case at all. Like the experienced hiker, I know to avoid the poison ivy and the rattle snakes. The world is full of pitfalls and snares, we don't need to fall into every trap that comes along. We need to be smart, not impulsive and emotional. It would be a welcome change for American foreign policy IMO.
I would accuse you of having magnifying glasses. Sorry, I don't have a cute meme for that, but basically you and people like minded, go looking for fights that America should take up to "fix the world" and potentially relive that WWII victory moment when we were the world's savior. This isn't that fight. This fights leads to a rabbit hole of misery. That's it.
Nothing more.
It's not our fight.
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I get it, you're an isolationist but to say we should do nothing is setting us up for failure. What do you propose we do, other than bury our heads in the sand and pretend that nothing bad will happen to the U.S. if we just ignore the problems in Europe?
I never sad we should do nothing. I believe we should collect intelligence, monitor and keep a close eye on things. I think we should monitor current events, the internet, monitor our borders and our immigrants. Basically keep an eye on things. There is zero reason we need to get involved militarily. Doing so will accomplish nothing and just set us up for more suicide attacks that we probably can't prevent.
Let's say we send every single B-52 we have plus every other aircraft we have to bomb ISIS around the clock 24/7 and they are nearly wiped out, what do you think that will accomplish???? They, or somebody with a different name will come back even stronger. We will bomb and fight on, meanwhile there will be more and more "terrorist" attacks here at home. Do you see the correlation at all?
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That bird was just looking for somewhere to take a crap, it found the perfect spot.
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It's not our fight.
THEY are making it OUR fight.
Cancer, caught early, can be cured.
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I never sad we should do nothing. I believe we should collect intelligence, monitor and keep a close eye on things. I think we should monitor current events, the internet, monitor our borders and our immigrants. Basically keep an eye on things. There is zero reason we need to get involved militarily. Doing so will accomplish nothing and just set us up for more suicide attacks that we probably can't prevent.
Let's say we send every single B-52 we have plus every other aircraft we have to bomb ISIS around the clock 24/7 and they are nearly wiped out, what do you think that will accomplish???? They, or somebody with a different name will come back even stronger. We will bomb and fight on, meanwhile there will be more and more "terrorist" attacks here at home. Do you see the correlation at all?
Right. It's all our fault. Thanks for the clarification.
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Right. It's all our fault. Thanks for the clarification.
If that's the way you want to see it, so be it, but it's not what I have said, nor is it what I believe.
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THEY are making it OUR fight.
Cancer, caught early, can be cured.
Maybe yes, maybe no, but one thing is certain, we do not have the cure for this cancer. I believe the International Islamic world may though.
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I never sad we should do nothing. I believe we should collect intelligence, monitor and keep a close eye on things. I think we should monitor current events, the internet, monitor our borders and our immigrants. Basically keep an eye on things. There is zero reason we need to get involved militarily. Doing so will accomplish nothing and just set us up for more suicide attacks that we probably can't prevent.
Let's say we send every single B-52 we have plus every other aircraft we have to bomb ISIS around the clock 24/7 and they are nearly wiped out, what do you think that will accomplish???? They, or somebody with a different name will come back even stronger. We will bomb and fight on, meanwhile there will be more and more "terrorist" attacks here at home. Do you see the correlation at all?
Belgium hasn't been actively involved in fighting ISIS militarily in Iraq and Syria and yet they were attacked anyway. These are evil people who use religion as a justification for their attacks. I never suggested we use B-52s to bomb them around the clock, though there are theories out there that say certain strategies involving constant use of strikes may work.
The attacks are not going to stop. Your isolationist position towards this would lead towards even more attacks.
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Belgium hasn't been actively involved in fighting ISIS militarily in Iraq and Syria and yet they were attacked anyway. These are evil people who use religion as a justification for their attacks. I never suggested we use B-52s to bomb them around the clock, though there are theories out there that say certain strategies involving constant use of strikes may work.
The attacks are not going to stop. Your isolationist position towards this would lead towards even more attacks.
Do a little checking on Belgian history. They, like France have a long history with Muslims and just like France have treated large Muslim populations in their country for decades as second class citizens. An attack in Belgium is not a surprise. The Belgians are not just innocent bystanders that got randomly attacked.
I am not saying that innocent Belgian citizens deserved to be attacked or that this attack was justified. I am saying it shouldn't come as a surprise. We'll never know if isolationism works or not since it hasn't been tried since Woodrow Wilson and likely will not be tried going into the future. Americans love fighting and a contest. We still believe our military can fix the world's problems by force even though the historical record has plainly shown otherwise. Both Hillary, Trump and Cruz can't wait to get mixed up in the Middle East again, so rest assured, we will be ramping up and there will be more attacks here at home.
So fear not, you will be getting your daily news gun camera footage of ISIS guys being blown up, you'll get your body counts, you'll get your videos of smoking wrecked buildings and vehicles and you'll get your daily talking heads declaring "ISIS is on the run". You'll also get your public bombing and mass shootings here at home to give you and our elected "representatives" further inspiration to borrow more money and fight on.
Isolationism never works. Oh yeah, when was the last time there was a war, a conflict, or a suicide attack in Switzerland?? A thousand years ago or something?
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Maybe yes, maybe no, but one thing is certain, we do not have the cure for this cancer. I believe the International Islamic world may though.
Yeah, they've been protesting having Sharia imposed upon them, the Islamic Women's Rights movement is in full bloom, and people are turning in radicalized family members left and right.
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Yeah, they've been protesting having Sharia imposed upon them, the Islamic Women's Rights movement is in full bloom, and people are turning in radicalized family members left and right.
This very well may come to pass if we give it chance. When the West gets involved we become the distraction. We become the focus of their anger instead of the real problems that are inward looking. If it's just Muslims causing Muslim suffering, they may well decide to change, but as long as we're involved, you're right they'll never change their attitudes.
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Isolationism never works. Oh yeah, when was the last time there was a war, a conflict, or a suicide attack in Switzerland?? A thousand years ago or something?
Switzerland is an interesting example. They have a very fine defensive military. All young men are required to serve. Women are permitted to volunteer for any position. One reason they have never been attacked is they have very mountainous borders that are custom made for the many anti tank ditches they build.
Since all young men are required to serve in the military, and all military personnel are required to keep their guns at home, Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. And when they exit the service, they are able to get a permit to keep their weapon. But they do have to buy their own ammunition.
But you are correct that their non-interventionist philosophy is one reason they have not been attacked, along with the fact that they would be a formidable target. Today's air power could change that, but their extremely business friendly environment with low taxes ensures that Countries that have the ability to attack by air also have huge corporations doing business there and have no reason to attack.
Low taxes; business friendly; extensively armed civilians; what's not to love. And a dangerous place to attack; even by terrorists.
That was a good example you chose. I mean that, but for a different reason that you may have intended.
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(https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1393976/fidel-castro.jpg)
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Do a little checking on Belgian history. They, like France have a long history with Muslims and just like France have treated large Muslim populations in their country for decades as second class citizens. An attack in Belgium is not a surprise. The Belgians are not just innocent bystanders that got randomly attacked.
I am not saying that innocent Belgian citizens deserved to be attacked or that this attack was justified. I am saying it shouldn't come as a surprise. We'll never know if isolationism works or not since it hasn't been tried since Woodrow Wilson and likely will not be tried going into the future. Americans love fighting and a contest. We still believe our military can fix the world's problems by force even though the historical record has plainly shown otherwise. Both Hillary, Trump and Cruz can't wait to get mixed up in the Middle East again, so rest assured, we will be ramping up and there will be more attacks here at home.
So fear not, you will be getting your daily news gun camera footage of ISIS guys being blown up, you'll get your body counts, you'll get your videos of smoking wrecked buildings and vehicles and you'll get your daily talking heads declaring "ISIS is on the run". You'll also get your public bombing and mass shootings here at home to give you and our elected "representatives" further inspiration to borrow more money and fight on.
Isolationism never works. Oh yeah, when was the last time there was a war, a conflict, or a suicide attack in Switzerland?? A thousand years ago or something?
There are many ways to attack the problem of radical Islamic terrorism and not all are militarily, but a lot are. So if I understand you correctly, we should collect intelligence and monitor the situation but do nothing else to stop ISIS? If we do that and there's another attack in the U.S., what do we do then? I guess nothing, because it's not our problem.
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There are many ways to attack the problem of radical Islamic terrorism and not all are militarily, but a lot are. So if I understand you correctly, we should collect intelligence and monitor the situation but do nothing else to stop ISIS? If we do that and there's another attack in the U.S., what do we do then? I guess nothing, because it's not our problem.
Dave's sentiment is that we stop being world police.
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Dave's sentiment is that we stop being world police.
Yep, those guys sawing people's heads off over there? Nothing to see, don't look, say nothing, we are peaceful, none of our business, nope, conscience clear, they must have deserved it.
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There are many ways to attack the problem of radical Islamic terrorism and not all are militarily, but a lot are. So if I understand you correctly, we should collect intelligence and monitor the situation but do nothing else to stop ISIS? If we do that and there's another attack in the U.S., what do we do then? I guess nothing, because it's not our problem.
I wouldn't do nothing. I would pass on whatever intelligence we do have on them to those that actually are fighting them on the ground. As to what if another attack (there will be no matter what in the future BTW) If it is home grown ISIS operatives then intense police work to find out who if there are anymore collaborators and if there are, you round them up, or kill them. Their choice. If there are foreign ISIS operatives then in addition to the above police work, you figure out the way they got in and work to keep that from happening again. Anything we learn, we pass on to the people that are fighting ISIS.
I wouldn't call that nothing, but to those that can only imagine the US being in perpetual war, maybe it is nothing.
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Yep, those guys sawing people's heads off over there? Nothing to see, don't look, say nothing, we are peaceful, none of our business, nope, conscience clear, they must have deserved it.
Yeah, and those women that get kidnapped, raped, sold, tortured, brainwashed and turned into suicide bombers;
who cares? They are just . . .
girls.
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Dave's sentiment is that we stop being world police.
That is a concept that is very uncomfortable and doesn't sit well with many Americans. We like to believe we have control, but the very fact that ISIS exists shows we don't.
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That is a concept that is very uncomfortable and doesn't sit well with many Americans. We like to believe we have control, but the very fact that ISIS exists shows we don't.
Thanks Obama.
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Dave's sentiment is that we stop being world police.
There's a difference between being the world's police and dealing with a threat to the U.S. and to the world.
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That is a concept that is very uncomfortable and doesn't sit well with many Americans. We like to believe we have control, but the very fact that ISIS exists shows we don't.
I don't want control over the world or other nations, but I do want ensure that America is safe from threats, both internal and external. Sometimes that means taking pre-emptive action against an enemy before they can do (more) damage to us.
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Yep, those guys sawing people's heads off over there? Nothing to see, don't look, say nothing, we are peaceful, none of our business, nope, conscience clear, they must have deserved it.
By what method do you choose to help some but not others? What about all the other areas of the world where people are brutalized?
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There's a difference between being the world's police and dealing with a threat to the U.S. and to the world.
I'll remind you that our actions as world police helped create the environment from which ISIS sprang forth.
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I'll remind you that our actions as world police helped create the environment from which ISIS sprang forth.
Actually, abandoning that role prematurely is what created them.
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Actually, abandoning that role prematurely is what created them.
No, sorry. You can't take a link in the chain and pretend the rest of the chain doesn't exist. A bit further up the chain and you'll find our real folly.
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No, sorry. You can't take a link in the chain and pretend the rest of the chain doesn't exist. A bit further up the chain and you'll find our real folly.
No, sorry, you can't possibly track that chain as it goes back 1000s of years. The folly is Iraq was won but it wasn't perfect so liberals snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
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No, sorry, you can't possibly track that chain as it goes back 1000s of years. The folly is Iraq was won but it wasn't perfect so liberals snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
The interesting thing about the United States is that every four years there is a chance we will have a president who is not interested in continuing a never-ending fiasco of a war that we never should've entered into.
My point stands. MacArthur was right.
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The interesting thing about the United States is that every four years there is a chance we will have a president who is not interested in continuing a never-ending fiasco of a war that we never should've entered into.
Supposedly, we have had one of those for the past 8 years. What is the result? Are we better off, safer, than we were 8 years ago?
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Supposedly, we have had one of those for the past 8 years. What is the result? Are we better off, safer, than we were 8 years ago?
No, we are weaker and more vulnerable than ever.
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More world police fun:
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html
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Fantastic. Maybe they will wipe each other out.
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Supposedly, we have had one of those for the past 8 years. What is the result? Are we better off, safer, than we were 8 years ago?
Strange question given 9/11.
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Fantastic. Maybe they will wipe each other out.
Remind me why that would be a good outcome.
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Strange question given 9/11.
9/11 was 15 years ago, and the President at the time saw to it that it did not happen again. I ask again, are we better off or safer than 8 years ago. When the current "no more wars" President took office.
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Remind me why that would be a good outcome.
For the same reason that it would have been good if the Iraqis and Iranians had wiped each other out, or the Nazis and the Russians had wiped each other out.
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Remind me why that would be a good outcome.
The isolationist crowd should be cheering this. Muslim factions going against each other is exactly what they were calling for to begin with.
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9/11 was 15 years ago, and the President at the time saw to it that it did not happen again. I ask again, are we better off or safer than 8 years ago. When the current "no more wars" President took office.
It did happen again. But anyway, I feel about as safe now as I ever did, with the exception of 9/11 and some bit of time after, when I truly wondered whether more was coming.
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It did happen again.
It did? I must have missed it. Which skyscrapers were brought down by hijacked airliners? Where were 3000 innocent civiians killed by fanatics?
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I'll remind you that our actions as world police helped create the environment from which ISIS sprang forth.
The action that helped create ISIS was abandoning the environment and allowing ISIS to spring forth.
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It did? I must have missed it. Which skyscrapers were brought down by hijacked airliners? Where were 3000 innocent civiians killed by fanatics?
Terror attacks happened again. If you intended to judge only by an attack of the scale of 9/11, Obama has kept us safer.
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For the same reason that it would have been good if the Iraqis and Iranians had wiped each other out, or the Nazis and the Russians had wiped each other out.
We armed these two rebel groups intending to help them fight against ISIS and to try to push Assad to the negotiating table. If these two rebel groups wipe each other out, not only are none of our objectives accomplished, but our arms again (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/26/us-backed-rebels-give-arms-al-qaeda-group/72831840/) fall into the wrong hands.
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Terror attacks happened again. If you intended to judge only by an attack of the scale of 9/11, Obama has kept us safer.
Upon what information are you basing this? This list would seem to be contrary to your opinion:
http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/terror-attacks-radical-islam/2015/12/07/id/704847/ (http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/terror-attacks-radical-islam/2015/12/07/id/704847/)
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Upon what information are you basing this? This list would seem to be contrary to your opinion:
http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/terror-attacks-radical-islam/2015/12/07/id/704847/ (http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/terror-attacks-radical-islam/2015/12/07/id/704847/)
To which quoted point is it contrary? That attacks happened after 9/11 and during Bush's term, or that no attacks of 9/11 scale have happened under Obama?
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Thanks Obama.
You're delusional if you think Obama, George W, or even Donald Trump could totally wipe out ISIS and end Islamic terrorism. ISIS is not Obama's creation. It can be traced back to decades of poor American policy in the Muslim world long before he even knew he was going into politics.
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You're delusional if you think Obama, George W, or even Donald Trump could totally wipe out ISIS and end Islamic terrorism. ISIS is not Obama's creation. It can be traced back to decades of poor American policy in the Muslim world long before he even knew he was going into politics.
The evolution of ISIS goes way back before America was even part of the known world, around 700AD.
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There's a difference between being the world's police and dealing with a threat to the U.S. and to the world.
There is and always has been threats to America. We have to pick and choose which require deployment of military deployment. ISIS does not threaten us in a way that requires serious military deployment. Border scrutiny, intelligence and good police work yes, but carrier group, B-52s and fighter/bomber squadrons... no.
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There is and always has been threats to America. We have to pick and choose which require deployment of military deployment. ISIS does not threaten us in a way that requires serious military deployment. Border scrutiny, intelligence and good police work yes, but carrier group, B-52s and fighter/bomber squadrons... no.
I'm sure people in London, Warsaw, and Stalingrad thought the exact same thing at some point before the Nazis attacked THEM.
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Is there a reason you want to wait until they are here en mass before we strike them? Why not get them beforehand? They are here and more are coming.
"See you in New York."
They have not left much to the imagination about their intentions.
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The evolution of ISIS goes way back before America was even part of the known world, around 700AD.
And even earlier. Evil has existed in the world since at least the first human.
But don't expect the blame-america crowd to understand that.
It is disappointing that sooooo many people don't understand cause and effect.
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Is there a reason you want to wait until they are here en mass before we strike them? Why not get them beforehand? They are here and more are coming.
"See you in New York."
They have not left much to the imagination about their intentions.
Once they have demonstrated nuclear or bio-warfare capabilities, the world is theirs.
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The action that helped create ISIS was abandoning the environment and allowing ISIS to spring forth.
Which would have never happened had we not entered the war, removed Saddam Hussein from power, and disbanded the Iraqi army. Indeed, the totality of our world police debacle helped create the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to arise.
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Terror attacks happened again. If you intended to judge only by an attack of the scale of 9/11, Obama has kept us safer.
External terrorism doesn't worry me so much. What are the percentage deaths from that? What scares me is the internal subterfuge, and erosion of our culture, and society that Obama has promoted and implemented for almost eight years. The artificial racism, war on women, gays, dividing us along racial, religious, gender, and sexual orientation.
The PC/Fascist mantra is killing us, not terrorists. So no, Obama has not made us safer.
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Which would have never happened had we not entered the war, removed Saddam Hussein from power, and disbanded the Iraqi army. Indeed, the totality of our world police debacle helped create the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to arise.
And pray tell what the world would be like right now had we not entered the war.
I'll wait.
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And pray tell what the world would be like right now had we not entered the war.
I'll wait.
Impossible to know, as I am sure you are aware, but the decade prior to the war is likely instructive as to what Iraq would be like. That doesn't preclude us from deciding whether the choice to go to war in Iraq was subjectively "good" or "bad" for us and for the region.
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Impossible to know, as I am sure you are aware, but the decade prior to the war is likely instructive as to what Iraq would be like. That doesn't preclude us from deciding whether the choice to go to war in Iraq was subjectively "good" or "bad" for us and for the region.
True.
But I think those who think it couldn't possibly be any worse may simply lack imagination.
That said, I basically agree with you.
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Impossible to know, as I am sure you are aware, but the decade prior to the war is likely instructive as to what Iraq would be like. That doesn't preclude us from deciding whether the choice to go to war in Iraq was subjectively "good" or "bad" for us and for the region.
"likely instructive"? Assuming facts not in evidence.
Possibly instructive is the only supportable conclusion.
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I'm sure people in London, Warsaw, and Stalingrad thought the exact same thing at some point before the Nazis attacked THEM.
Yes Mr. Godwin, Nazis and ISIS are just the same. ::)
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Is there a reason you want to wait until they are here en mass before we strike them? Why not get them beforehand? They are here and more are coming.
"See you in New York."
They have not left much to the imagination about their intentions.
What mass is this you see coming? How are they going to get here and how will they do it undetected? How can we "get them" before hand? Do we rally know where these masses are?
You guys read too many fantasy novels.
Once again, my point is, the Arabs living in that region should be the ones "getting them", not us. It is in their interest to do so. They will never step up as long as they think it likely we will work for them.
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It is disappointing that sooooo many people don't understand cause and effect.
No kidding! Amen to that!
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Once they have demonstrated nuclear or bio-warfare capabilities, the world is theirs.
Hmmmm... The Soviets demonstrated both nuclear and biological warfare capabilities ages ago. Does that mean the world belongs to them?
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What mass is this you see coming? How are they going to get here and how will they do it undetected? How can we "get them" before hand? Do we rally know where these masses are?
Sleeper cells. The potential to be embedded in the 100,000 "refugees" the President has insisted he will bring into this country this year. Those already here who become radicalized ("homegrown" terrorists). No, we don't know where everyone of them is or else we'd be out there stopping them. We find them through intelligence collection, police work, communities reporting suspicious people, etc.
Once again, my point is, the Arabs living in that region should be the ones "getting them", not us. It is in their interest to do so. They will never step up as long as they think it likely we will work for them.
A lot of the Arabs are having a hard time keeping their own country together let alone trying to find and stop potential ISIS members from leaving their country and coming to ours. I'd be willing to bet that some of the Arab countries are actually okay with ISIS members leaving their countries so long as it means they have less issues in their own country.
You were just suggesting that we use intelligence to monitor the situation and now you're saying the Arabs need to find them on their own? Which is it? You seem to be growing more and more isolationist.
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Hmmmm... The Soviets demonstrated both nuclear and biological warfare capabilities ages ago. Does that mean the world belongs to them?
The Soviets developed that and thus ensued Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). Each side had it and it was the ultimate deterrent, at least for a period of time. If ISIS could get their hands on a full nuclear weapon I don't doubt that they would use it. It's more likely for them to set off a dirty bomb, though. Either way, ISIS is far more likely to use a weapon of mass destruction than the Soviets were.
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What mass is this you see coming? How are they going to get here and how will they do it undetected? How can we "get them" before hand? Do we rally know where these masses are?
You guys read too many fantasy novels.
Once again, my point is, the Arabs living in that region should be the ones "getting them", not us. It is in their interest to do so. They will never step up as long as they think it likely we will work for them.
Do you not see that ISIS and sympathetic radical Islamists are infiltrating the western world, usually through an open door?
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Hmmmm... The Soviets demonstrated both nuclear and biological warfare capabilities ages ago. Does that mean the world belongs to them?
No. Ronnie put a stop to that. For a while.
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The Soviets were not suicidal. The ISIS pukes are.
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Hmmmm... The Soviets demonstrated both nuclear and biological warfare capabilities ages ago. Does that mean the world belongs to them?
Can't believe I'm going to waste cycles responding to that, but we are talking about a completely different mindset. The Soviets had as much to lose as we did; ever hear of MAD? The lunatics in the Levant WELCOME DEATH.
If you really think that the USSR and ISIL are the same then you need to be sent to the reeducation camp for a brain enema.