PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: LevelWing on March 29, 2016, 09:04:23 PM

Title: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 29, 2016, 09:04:23 PM
Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandoski, was charged with battery today in Jupiter, Florida. He's accused of grabbing the arm of reporter Michelle Fields at a Trump rally in Florida several weeks back.

I'm glad to see he was charged. The police released video from the security camera which is the best angle by far and clearly shows Lewandoski grabbing her and pulling her. The Trump campaign continued to say he was innocent and nothing happened. Pretty sad that he won't fire his campaign manager over this.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/local/trump-aide-charged-with-misdemeanor-battery-on-ex-/nqtkY/

Link to my original thread:
http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?topic=522.msg8622#msg8622
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: FastEddieB on March 30, 2016, 04:57:40 AM
I have mixed feelings here.

In FL, Simple Battery is any "unlawful touching", so the bar is pretty low.

Then again, there is a fundamental right not to have anyone lay their hands on you without your permission.

But this particular fracas seems like much ado about (nearly) nothing. It's almost like aggressive reporters "in the fray", so to speak, can expect to get grabbed/pushed/jostled as a cost of doing business. Not sure why one's campaign manager would normally be in the trenches, but once there I can see how he or she might physically put themselves between a pushy reporter and their candidate.

If the bruises on the reporter's arm were a result of this, the charge is appropriate. Normally, this would get plead out in some sort of pre-trial intervention - counseling or the like for the perpetrator.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: JeffDG on March 30, 2016, 05:11:04 AM
I have mixed feelings here.

In FL, Simple Battery is any "unlawful touching", so the bar is pretty low.

Then again, there is a fundamental right not to have anyone lay their hands on you without your permission.

But this particular fracas seems like much ado about (nearly) nothing. It's almost like aggressive reporters "in the fray", so to speak, can expect to get grabbed/pushed/jostled as a cost of doing business. Not sure why one's campaign manager would normally be in the trenches, but once there I can see how he or she might physically put themselves between a pushy reporter and their candidate.

If the bruises on the reporter's arm were a result of this, the charge is appropriate. Normally, this would get plead out in some sort of pre-trial intervention - counseling or the like for the perpetrator.
If you ask me, when this first happened, had the defendant's reaction been "Sorry, my bad" instead of "You're delusional", these charges wouldn't have happened.


The Trumpalumpa campaign is infected with their leader's "I can do no wrong, and I shall denounce any who say I do wrong" attitude, and in this case, it's bitten him in the ass.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: PaulS on March 30, 2016, 05:22:34 AM
She's a baby.  She knew she wasn't supposed be asking questions and pursuing Trump, yet she barges in and grabs his arm.  Lewandowski grabbed her and turned her away..... the Secret Service should have tackled her.   Bruises are easy to fake and it didn't look that violent to me.  I think this will get thrown out of court.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on March 30, 2016, 05:46:45 AM
Let's make sure that this gets tried here and in the media before it gets to court.  After all that's the American way.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: FastEddieB on March 30, 2016, 05:48:17 AM
I think this will get thrown out of court.

Elements of the crime:

Did he touch her? Yes.

Was it intentional? Yes.

Did he have her permission? No.

Unlikely to get thrown out if the elements in the charge are even probably true.

The court will decide if there's proof beyond a reasonable doubt that said crime occurred.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: PaulS on March 30, 2016, 05:59:57 AM
Elements of the crime:

Did he touch her? Yes.

Was it intentional? Yes.

Did he have her permission? No.

Unlikely to get thrown out if the elements in the charge are even probably true.

The court will decide if there's proof beyond a reasonable doubt that said crime occurred.

Ok, thrown out of court = found not guilty to me.... not a lawyer here.   I think they have to look at the circumstances here.  This was not a lady standing on a sidewalk minding her own business then grabbed.  This was a reporter, aggressively pursuing her agenda, chasing a presidential candidate, making unwanted contact with the candidate, then pulled away from the candidate by one of the candidate's staff.  If she had been doing what she was supposed to be doing she never would have been touched.  She is a sleaze-ball pursuing this.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 06:03:29 AM
She's a baby.  She knew she wasn't supposed be asking questions and pursuing Trump, yet she barges in and grabs his arm.  Lewandowski grabbed her and turned her away..... the Secret Service should have tackled her.   Bruises are easy to fake and it didn't look that violent to me.  I think this will get thrown out of court.
The Secret Service didn't tackle her because she obviously wasn't a threat. She's a reporter who was doing what all reporters do: following the candidate and asking questions. The newly released security footage clearly shows Lewandoswki reaching through a Secret Service agent to get to her. Nobody has the right to place their hands on someone else unless it's a defense of some sort and there was clearly no intent to harm Trump. That's why he has Secret Service protection.

Remember that this isn't the first time Lewamdowski has been accused of mishandling people and reporters. Shortly after that incident he was accused of grabbing another person by the back of the collar, this time a protestor. He did grab him and pull but so did an undercover security member at the same time.

This is the type of culture that surrounds Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: JeffDG on March 30, 2016, 06:04:37 AM
She is a sleaze-ball pursuing this.
Yeah, right.


Right after this happened, the Trumpkins were all "If there's no police report, you're a liar and it never happened", so she took them up on it, and filed a police report.


Here's what the defendant said to Fields:  "You are totally delusional. I never touched you. As a matter of fact, I have never even met you."


That's a lie.


Like I said, a response of "Sorry, my bad" would have had this go away instantly.  The "You are totally delusional" response, however, invited a more vigorous pursuit of the matter.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 06:07:13 AM
Ok, thrown out of court = found not guilty to me.... not a lawyer here.   I think they have to look at the circumstances here.  This was not a lady standing on a sidewalk minding her own business then grabbed.  This was a reporter, aggressively pursuing her agenda, chasing a presidential candidate, making unwanted contact with the candidate, then pulled away from the candidate by one of the candidate's staff.  If she had been doing what she was supposed to be doing she never would have been touched.  She is a sleaze-ball pursuing this.
No, thrown out of court is not the same as not guilty. Not guilty is a verdict rendered after a trial in which a judge or your peers have reviewed evidence and decided you didn't do it. Thrown out of court means dismissed, with or without prejudice, for some reason. May be the district attorney feels there's not enough evidence and asks it to be dismissed, may be thrown out based a motion filed by the defense. It doesn't mean the defendant didn't do it.

I like how you're blaming the victim here. Do you really believe she was some sort of threat to Trump? If she had been the Secret Service would have detained and questioned her. Also remember that Lewandowski said on Twitter that he never touched her, which has now been proven false.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: You Only Live Twice on March 30, 2016, 06:08:20 AM
What do you think would happen if some conservative reporter put his hands on Hillary?
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 06:10:39 AM
Like I said, a response of "Sorry, my bad" would have had this go away instantly.  The "You are totally delusional" response, however, invited a more vigorous pursuit of the matter.
Michelle Fields even said so herself. In fact she said she was contacted by the campaign and asked for her phone number so they could apologize, which is all she wanted.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Bob Noel on March 30, 2016, 06:11:55 AM
What do you think would happen if some conservative reporter put his hands on Hillary?

his hands would burn?


Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: You Only Live Twice on March 30, 2016, 06:23:11 AM
Michelle Fields even said so herself. In fact she said she was contacted by the campaign and asked for her phone number so they could apologize, which is all she wanted.

Yeah, bullshit.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: JeffDG on March 30, 2016, 06:25:19 AM
Yeah, bullshit.
Guess we'll never actually know.  But lying and calling her delusional didn't work out so well, did it?
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 06:32:25 AM
The Secret Service didn't tackle her because she obviously wasn't a threat. She's a reporter who was doing what all reporters do: following the candidate and asking questions. The newly released security footage clearly shows Lewandoswki reaching through a Secret Service agent to get to her. Nobody has the right to place their hands on someone else unless it's a defense of some sort and there was clearly no intent to harm Trump. That's why he has Secret Service protection.

Remember that this isn't the first time Lewamdowski has been accused of mishandling people and reporters. Shortly after that incident he was accused of grabbing another person by the back of the collar, this time a protestor. He did grab him and pull but so did an undercover security member at the same time.

This is the type of culture that surrounds Trump.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 06:50:38 AM
What do you think would happen if some conservative reporter put his hands on Hillary?
his hands would burn?
"Is that an unsecured Blackberry in your front pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: FastEddieB on March 30, 2016, 06:55:08 AM
"Is that an unsecured Blackberry in your front pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"

I think I have a magazine cover somewhere that might be appropriate here.

Let me look...
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: You Only Live Twice on March 30, 2016, 06:57:33 AM
Guess we'll never actually know.  But lying and calling her delusional didn't work out so well, did it?

Not when you have a complicit media.

IIRC her original complaint (made by her Right Wing boyfriend) was that she was pulled to the ground, which is bullshit.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: You Only Live Twice on March 30, 2016, 06:58:10 AM
I think I have a magazine cover somewhere that might be appropriate here.

Let me look...
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: JeffDG on March 30, 2016, 06:59:04 AM
Not when you have a complicit media.

IIRC her original complaint (made by her Right Wing boyfriend) was that she was pulled to the ground, which is bullshit.
Nope, that was never said.  I believe she claimed that she was almost pulled down.  The story has never changed, and is supported by the video.


What was the point of lying and saying he never touched her?  Or calling her delusional?  Or is that just the Trump campaign's thugish culture?
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: FastEddieB on March 30, 2016, 07:06:42 AM
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Seriously, it would not be that hard to find!  8)
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 07:17:02 AM
Not when you have a complicit media.

IIRC her original complaint (made by her Right Wing boyfriend) was that she was pulled to the ground, which is bullshit.
Not true. Her story has been consistent the entire time.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: FastEddieB on March 30, 2016, 07:32:56 AM
Not true. Her story has been consistent the entire time.

They just read her original statement on the CNN Town Hall I'm watching from last night.

She said something like almost pulled to the ground. Seems a bit overstated from the video, but I imagine that was her honest take on it at the time.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 07:37:19 AM
They just read her original statement on the CNN Town Hall I'm watching from last night.

She said something like almost pulled to the ground. Seems a bit overstated from the video, but I imagine that was her honest take on it at the time.
That presumes that what Trump handed to Anderson Cooper was factual.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: JeffDG on March 30, 2016, 07:38:55 AM
That presumes that what Trump handed to Anderson Cooper was factual.
Like his Trump University BBB report.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: PaulS on March 30, 2016, 08:29:19 AM
Apparently Michelle Fields has a history of doing crap like this.

http://gotnews.com/calling-bullshit-michelle-fields/

Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: pilot_dude on March 30, 2016, 08:33:40 AM
I am very happy to see that Donald Trump is losing ground to Ted Cruz, day by day, and that ever day, more people take off the blinders and wake up to his shenanigans.
President Clinton (shemale) is also pleased as punch.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: JeffDG on March 30, 2016, 08:36:07 AM
Apparently Michelle Fields has a history of doing crap like this.

http://gotnews.com/calling-bullshit-michelle-fields/ (http://gotnews.com/calling-bullshit-michelle-fields/)
And in related news...the Wifebeaters Association of America has endorsed Trump for validating all their arguments!
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Little Joe on March 30, 2016, 08:37:12 AM
When I hear stories like this, all I can think of is how far the press went to discredit Sara Palin.

Now it is not only the press, but the GOP establishment and the hard-core conservatives as well.
Is it no wonder that some people that already despise Trump are so quick to jump in defense of this reporter?

With all the shit being thrown up, and with people so ready to believe anything bad about Trump, it is no wonder these things get so blown up.

Perhaps is was assault, but in the current atmosphere, I don't believe anything I here without hard proof, and without context.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Little Joe on March 30, 2016, 08:40:49 AM
And in related news...the Wifebeaters Association of America has endorsed Trump for validating all their arguments!
I'm sure there's a cute name for that sort of response, but I"m not sure what it is.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Lucifer on March 30, 2016, 08:43:42 AM
When I hear stories like this, all I can think of is how far the press went to discredit Sara Palin.

Now it is not only the press, but the GOP establishment and the hard-core conservatives as well.


 In the case of Palin not only did the media do anything and everything to discredit her but the GOP and RNC establishment also joined in.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 08:45:31 AM
Perhaps is was assault, but in the current atmosphere, I don't believe anything I here without hard proof, and without context.
Theres multiple audio and video of the incident, including the security footage released yesterday. She's a reporter, not a protestor. Oh yeah, she was working for a pro-Trump outlet at the time.

Her story hasn't changed but the Trump campaign's has and she is still, somehow, the bad person in all of this.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: PaulS on March 30, 2016, 09:15:43 AM
First the assault charges, next the multi million dollar lawsuit.  Mark my words.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 09:22:58 AM
First the assault charges, next the multi million dollar lawsuit.  Mark my words.
Yep. Trump threatened yesterday to sue her because she touched Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: PaulS on March 30, 2016, 09:25:37 AM
Yep. Trump threatened yesterday to sue her because she touched Trump.

Lol,  yep, that too.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 09:30:48 AM
Trump's treatment of the media is pretty indicative of how he would treat them as President Trump. There is a lot to be said for his ability to push back against the liberal media and not put up with their crap, but the overall treatment is poor. He's hostile towards media personalities that question him and he tries to control them every way he can. That's pretty sad.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on March 30, 2016, 09:31:21 AM
Can someone point me to a frame from the video that clearly shows his hand around her arm?
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Lucifer on March 30, 2016, 09:50:19 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3515932/Clinton-backer-called-Trump-divisive-inflammatory-charge-Trump-aide-prosecution-Florida.html

Quote
The Florida-based prosecutor whose office will handle the battery case of Donald Trump's campaign manager is a Hillary Clinton supporter who once characterized the Republican frontrunner's rhetoric as 'divisive and inflammatory.'

Dave Aronberg, the 44-year-old State Attorney for Palm Beach County, was a former Democratic state senator and in November was named as part of Clinton's 'Florida Leadership Team.'

These political connections have caused Trump supporters to take to Twitter worrying that Corey Lewandowski, Trump's campaign manager who yesterday was charged with simple battery over an altercation with ex-Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields, wouldn't get a fair shake.

A representative for Aronberg's spokesman Mike Edmondson said the office would not be commenting on political matters.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 09:50:19 AM
Can someone point me to a frame from the video that clearly shows his hand around her arm?
The video shows it better, but there's this:

Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 10:01:07 AM
Here is an article in the Washington Post from yesterday. It basically says that when Trump says something, whatever it is, however dumb it is, regardless if it's the opposite of what he said before, it must be true.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2016/03/29/the-day-trump-killed-the-fact/
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Little Joe on March 30, 2016, 10:14:36 AM
The video shows it better, but there's this:
In the pic, I see him reaching towards her, but it looks more like she is grabbing Trump.

She has pulled this shit before.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on March 30, 2016, 10:43:41 AM
The video shows it better, but there's this:

A judge will laugh that picture right out of court.  While folks will convict him in their minds and in the media, if that is the best evidence there is, this will be a nothing burger.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Lucifer on March 30, 2016, 11:18:23 AM
http://www.wnd.com/2016/03/lewandowski-prosecutor-outed-as-hillary-supporter/
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: You Only Live Twice on March 30, 2016, 12:13:52 PM


The Florida prosecutor who brought battery charges against Donald Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, supports Hillary Clinton’s campaign for president.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2016/03/lewandowski-prosecutor-outed-as-hillary-supporter/#YRHe5gAP1VabbVut.99
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: You Only Live Twice on March 30, 2016, 12:15:04 PM
Trump's treatment of the media is pretty indicative of how he would treat them as President Trump. There is a lot to be said for his ability to push back against the liberal media and not put up with their crap, but the overall treatment is poor. He's hostile towards media personalities that question him and he tries to control them every way he can. That's pretty sad.

OH! The irony...
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 12:20:16 PM
OH! The irony...
You would think with $2 BILLION of free media coverage that The Donald would be OK with a question or two.  Instead he just wants to have his own open platform, because, you know, these media outlets make MILLIONS just by having Trump on. They should be paying HIM!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: You Only Live Twice on March 30, 2016, 12:44:27 PM
You would think with $2 BILLION of free media coverage that The Donald would be OK with a question or two.  Instead he just wants to have his own open platform, because, you know, these media outlets make MILLIONS just by having Trump on. They should be paying HIM!  :rolleyes:

THIS is what is ironic:

"He's hostile towards media personalities that question him and he tries to control them every way he can. That's pretty sad."

I can think of two others that this describes perfectly. One is already in the White House and the other is re-measuring the windows for new drapes.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Little Joe on March 30, 2016, 12:52:21 PM
THIS is what is ironic:

"He's hostile towards media personalities that question him and he tries to control them every way he can. That's pretty sad."

I can think of two others that this describes perfectly. One is already in the White House and the other is re-measuring the windows for new drapes.
Can't she just return the ones she stole when she moved out last time?

No, wait. 
That was the china.  Sorry
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 04:56:30 PM
THIS is what is ironic:

"He's hostile towards media personalities that question him and he tries to control them every way he can. That's pretty sad."

I can think of two others that this describes perfectly. One is already in the White House and the other is re-measuring the windows for new drapes.
It's no less sad when the other two do it, either. It's probably even more sad when a person running for the Republican nomination is doing it, though.
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: Lucifer on April 15, 2016, 06:18:32 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3540520/No-charges-Trump-campaign-manager-reporter-battery-case-investigators-say-reacting-touched-Trump-did-needed-do.html
Title: Re: Trump Campaign Manager Charged with Battery
Post by: FastEddieB on April 15, 2016, 06:59:05 AM
Always seemed like "much ado about nothing" in my view.