Post by: FastEddieB on March 30, 2016, 03:42:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Jpoecf0xY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Jpoecf0xY)
He's backtracked now, but seems to have inflamed both sides on this one.
Post by: asechrest on March 30, 2016, 03:59:08 PM
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 04:12:06 PM
Take a good look, Trump fans. This is what the general election will look like should Trump be the nominee.
At some point, you all should have been demanding specific and detailed answers to tough questions. Instead, you accepted word salad and platitudes and "tough talk" as sufficient enough to want to make him the Republican nominee.
I can't believe that I'm thankful that a despicable character such as Chris Matthews finally exposed the man behind the curtain.
Understand that because of Donald Trump, the Democrats are revving up the "GOP WAR ON WOMEN" machine to eviscerate not only Trump, but EVERY Republican running for office.
Goodbye Senate.
Thanks for nothin'.
Post by: Bob Noel on March 30, 2016, 04:24:27 PM
Understand that because of Donald Trump, the Democrats are revving up the "GOP WAR ON WOMEN" machine to eviscerate not only Trump, but EVERY Republican running for office.
Goodbye Senate.
Thanks for nothin'.
Then I guess the democrats will be depending on the stupidity of voters.
Post by: PaulS on March 30, 2016, 04:30:32 PM
Post by: FastEddieB on March 30, 2016, 04:32:39 PM
Sooooo..... if someone does something illegal there should be no penalty, pretty much what happens now I guess.
I was waiting for that.
I am pretty firmly anti-abortion.
But jailing the women? In what is already the country with the highest incarceration rate?
Needs to be considered very carefully, if you're really going to go down that road.
Post by: Mase on March 30, 2016, 04:39:50 PM
Understand that because of Donald Trump, the Democrats are revving up the "GOP WAR ON WOMEN" machine to eviscerate not only Trump, but EVERY Republican running for office.
Goodbye Senate.
Thanks for nothin'.
They would do that no matter who the candidate is, including if it was Fiorina.
Post by: Anthony on March 30, 2016, 04:41:21 PM
However, he owned Trump on that interview. Very disappointing.
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 04:43:29 PM
They would do that no matter who the candidate is, including if it was Fiorina.True, but do we have to hand them the rope to hang ourselves??
Post by: Little Joe on March 30, 2016, 04:45:46 PM
Lead story on CBS Evening News is Trump saying women should be jailed if they have an illegal abortion.OK, I didn't watch the video, but the quote says "Trump saying women should be jailed if they have an ILLEGAL abortion."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Jpoecf0xY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Jpoecf0xY)
He's backtracked now, but seems to have inflamed both sides on this one.
And the people that are whining about it (because Trump said it) are mostly the same people that have such a conniption when Ds don't make a distinction between "immigrants" and "illegal" aliens.
If it is Trump that says "Illegal" is "Illegal", that is bad. Yeah, I get it.
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 04:47:00 PM
My uncle went to High School with Chris Mathews, and knew him well. LaSalle College High School. He told me Mathew's family were far left, ideological Democrats. That's all Mathews knows. He does sometime make a more conservative remark but that is for sensationalism.My daughter went to the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Mass. Walking through the bookstore, I noticed the books written by famous alumni, including Clarence Thomas. Moving to the far left side of the bookshelf (OK, not really, but humor me) I saw a book by Chris Matthews. He's sure living those Catholic values, isn't he?
However, he owned Trump on that interview. Very disappointing.
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 04:48:27 PM
OK, I didn't watch the video, but the quote says "Trump saying women should be jailed if they have an ILLEGAL abortion."Watch the video and then get back to us.
And the people that are whining about it (because Trump said it) are mostly the same people that have such a conniption when Ds don't make a distinction between "immigrants" and "illegal" aliens.
If it is Trump that says "Illegal" is "Illegal", that is bad. Yeah, I get it.
Post by: LevelWing on March 30, 2016, 04:51:49 PM
Post by: Anthony on March 30, 2016, 04:53:30 PM
My daughter went to the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Mass. Walking through the bookstore, I noticed the books written by famous alumni, including Clarence Thomas. Moving to the far left side of the bookshelf (OK, not really, but humor me) I saw a book by Chris Matthews. He's sure living those Catholic values, isn't he?
He got a thrill or chill up his leg when Obama spoke. That's all we need to know.
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 05:04:55 PM
He tried to dodge it and Matthews' forced him to give an answer. He didn't give a specific answer on what the punishment should be and this is going to keep coming up. The Democrats will use this, and every other thing he's said, during the general election if he's the nominee.It will be really, really ugly.
Post by: JeffDG on March 30, 2016, 05:18:39 PM
They would do that no matter who the candidate is, including if it was Fiorina.But Trumpy is giving the Democrats the bullets.
Post by: Mase on March 30, 2016, 05:21:50 PM
True, but do we have to hand them the rope to hang ourselves??
Nope. We do not. We just need to publish the SPY cover <VBG> ;D
Post by: nddons on March 30, 2016, 06:08:44 PM
Nope. We do not. We just need to publish the SPY cover <VBG> ;DBASTARD!!!!!!
Post by: Little Joe on March 30, 2016, 06:37:47 PM
It will be really, really ugly.It will be really really ugly, regardless of who the R nominee is.
Post by: FastEddieB on March 30, 2016, 07:00:08 PM
I used to enjoy Hardball almost every day.
The following letter I sent in 2010 explains what changed:
Wednesday, May 12, 2010
Dear Hardball,
I've attempted to watch Hardball with Chris Matthews pretty much every day for many, many years, either recording it for later viewing or listening to it on satellite radio (when available). I also recorded the Chris Matthews Show every week for later viewing.
I’m somewhat conservative, but always found his point of view interesting. But recently Matthews has drifted further and further left, and has left me behind.
First, it was denigrating the Tea Party as "tea-baggers" and heaping derision on them whenever possible.
Second, it was his attacking Sarah Palin for giving speeches written by someone else. This from someone who was formerly a speechwriter for Jimmy Carter.
Now, this exchange from the May 3 Hardball, regarding the Times Square attempted bombing:
MATTHEWS: Well, two questions. First of all, how do you rule out just a right-wing attack by somebody on the right who‘s mad at the establishment? How do you know for sure it‘s not an American versus America situation here?
CRESSEY (NBC News terrorist analyst): Oh, you don‘t. And you could easily find out that this wasn't someone who was—either had a right-wing agenda or was mentally disturbed or had other things that were driving—driving it. My caution on a—on the right-wing extremists is that, typically, they go after symbols of authority, symbols of power. Times Square is a symbol of American culture, American society.
Why right-wing? Hasn't as much violence been propagated by left-wing, or even anarchist groups/individuals? Not to mention the obvious first choice, Muslim terrorism, which again turned out to be the case.
Anyway, goodbye Chris - its been fun.
_____________________
Ed Benson
Mineral Bluff, GA
PS - the only show on MSNBC I still find palatable for “balance” is Morning Joe.
Post by: Mase on March 30, 2016, 07:05:46 PM
Post by: nddons on March 31, 2016, 06:46:45 AM
Did you ever have to give a speech or presentation on a topic with which you weren't very knowledgeable, or with which you weren't "sold" or committed? I have, and those are the ones that I have done the worst on. Why? Because I haven't "lived" those topics.
I had to teach corporate reorganizations at my firm's tax conference a few years ago. I took a course on the topic back around 1989 when I was getting my Masters in Tax, but otherwise it was an area that I just didn't practice. I was capable of reading the Code and Regs, and putting together a good Power Point presentation, but when it came time to speak about it, my presentation was lacking.
I saw the same thing in Trump yesterday. He may have tried to say what he thought a pro-lifer would say, but because he previously stated "I'm pro-choice in all respects", he was inauthentic at best.
At worst, he caricatured what a New York liberal thought that a pro-lifer would want - to throw those women in jail!
Did you also noticed that he tried to say what Republicans would think (in order to insulate himself from the answer he was about to give) before Matthews made Trump say what HE would do?
Post by: Lucifer on March 31, 2016, 07:01:57 AM
I've been thinking more about this interview.
Did you ever have to give a speech or presentation on a topic with which you weren't very knowledgeable, or with which you weren't "sold" or committed? I have, and those are the ones that I have done the worst on. Why? Because I haven't "lived" those topics.
I had to teach corporate reorganizations at my firm's tax conference a few years ago. I took a course on the topic back around 1989 when I was getting my Masters in Tax, but otherwise it was an area that I just didn't practice. I was capable of reading the Code and Regs, and putting together a good Power Point presentation, but when it came time to speak about it, my presentation was lacking.
I saw the same thing in Trump yesterday. He may have tried to say what he thought a pro-lifer would say, but because he previously stated "I'm pro-choice in all respects", he was inauthentic at best.
At worst, he caricatured what a New York liberal thought that a pro-lifer would want - to throw those women in jail!
Did you also noticed that he tried to say what Republicans would think (in order to insulate himself from the answer he was about to give) before Matthews made Trump say what HE would do?
Trump is not a politician. Politicians spend hours "crafting" their messages to remain PC and to appeal to voters. They also have consultants who focus key words into their messages as well as prepare speeches.
As a country we have accepted these polished politicians and their carefully orchestrated talk even knowing they really don't mean what they say and that in fact they are pandering. Barack Obama is so teleprompter dependent he can't speak coherently without one, yet he enjoys high approval ratings despite of what he actually does and says.
If Trump would have spent a few years being groomed as a politician I suspect much of the hysteria would be nonexistent today as he could give the same carefully crafted message in political speak that so many desire. The public desires being lied to in political rhetoric rather than plain talk, it's just easier to accept.
Post by: You Only Live Twice on March 31, 2016, 07:48:19 AM
Post by: Dav8or on March 31, 2016, 07:54:42 AM
Trump is not a politician. Politicians spend hours "crafting" their messages to remain PC and to appeal to voters. They also have consultants who focus key words into their messages as well as prepare speeches.
As a country we have accepted these polished politicians and their carefully orchestrated talk even knowing they really don't mean what they say and that in fact they are pandering. Barack Obama is so teleprompter dependent he can't speak coherently without one, yet he enjoys high approval ratings despite of what he actually does and says.
If Trump would have spent a few years being groomed as a politician I suspect much of the hysteria would be nonexistent today as he could give the same carefully crafted message in political speak that so many desire. The public desires being lied to in political rhetoric rather than plain talk, it's just easier to accept.
No, we don't "accept" polished speeches, we expect our politicians to have a position and be able to articulate thoughtful run down of that position. Yes, we expect our politicians to deliver a professional message, say what they mean and mean what they say. Like it or not, Donald Trump now is a politician. He will have to up his game for the general and stop shooting off his mouth like a some guy in bar. He'll have to actually study the issues, take concrete, unwavering positions and be able to defend those positions in debate and interview like a professional.
What I see good portion of America "accepting", is an amateur, clueless politician as their savior and potential commander and chief, who's only qualifications are, he's angry, he can shout simple slogans and sound bites, loves controversy, is willing to buy his way into the presidency with his own money and claims to be an outsider, though very much would like to be an insider. Oh yeah, and he's doing it all for the good of the American people. Talk about accepting! ::)
Post by: FastEddieB on March 31, 2016, 07:56:05 AM
I think Hillary's message is clear.
That was pretty ruff!
Post by: nddons on March 31, 2016, 07:57:55 AM
Trump is not a politician. Politicians spend hours "crafting" their messages to remain PC and to appeal to voters. They also have consultants who focus key words into their messages as well as prepare speeches.Oh please. Give me a break. You're hearing from Trump what you want to hear.
As a country we have accepted these polished politicians and their carefully orchestrated talk even knowing they really don't mean what they say and that in fact they are pandering. Barack Obama is so teleprompter dependent he can't speak coherently without one, yet he enjoys high approval ratings despite of what he actually does and says.
If Trump would have spent a few years being groomed as a politician I suspect much of the hysteria would be nonexistent today as he could give the same carefully crafted message in political speak that so many desire. The public desires being lied to in political rhetoric rather than plain talk, it's just easier to accept.
The only people more polished than politicians are successful business people. Words matter. Words move markets. Words can damage companies in a flash. Why do you think quarterly investor calls from CEOs and CFOs are so important and monitored by the markets?
Trump has had a lifetime to be proficient in these topics. He declared his candidacy almost 10 months ago. He didn't have the time or inclination in the last 10 months to be proficient on one of the most controversial topics in political discourse since Roe v Wade?
Hell, any one of us on Pilot Spin could have answered that question better than Trump.
I'll say it again. Trump fans should have been demanding specific, direct answers to hard questions instead of accepting word salad. Because Matthews' interview is a window into how the general election campaign will look. Trump can't shoot from the hip and speak in platitudes any more.
I will say Obama became president by speaking in platitudes. But that's because he had a compliant knee pad-wearing press. Do you think Trump will get the same kid glove treatment?
Post by: asechrest on March 31, 2016, 08:04:53 AM
Trump is not a politician. Politicians spend hours "crafting" their messages to remain PC and to appeal to voters. They also have consultants who focus key words into their messages as well as prepare speeches.
As a country we have accepted these polished politicians and their carefully orchestrated talk even knowing they really don't mean what they say and that in fact they are pandering. Barack Obama is so teleprompter dependent he can't speak coherently without one, yet he enjoys high approval ratings despite of what he actually does and says.
If Trump would have spent a few years being groomed as a politician I suspect much of the hysteria would be nonexistent today as he could give the same carefully crafted message in political speak that so many desire. The public desires being lied to in political rhetoric rather than plain talk, it's just easier to accept.
I believe the problem is that he hasn't thought deeply about many of these subjects. Abortion is one of the most contentious and high-profile issues we deal with. He should have spent enough time thinking about his position to be able to field a question like that.
Post by: Lucifer on March 31, 2016, 08:08:42 AM
No, we don't "accept" polished speeches, we expect our politicians to have a position and be able to articulate thoughtful run down of that position. Yes, we expect our politicians to deliver a professional message, say what they mean and mean what they say. Like it or not, Donald Trump now is a politician. He will have to up his game for the general and stop shooting off his mouth like a some guy in bar. He'll have to actually study the issues, take concrete, unwavering positions and be able to defend those positions in debate and interview like a professional.
What I see good portion of America "accepting", is an amateur, clueless politician as their savior and potential commander and chief, who's only qualifications are, he's angry, he can shout simple slogans and sound bites, loves controversy, is willing to buy his way into the presidency with his own money and claims to be an outsider, though very much would like to be an insider. Oh yeah, and he's doing it all for the good of the American people. Talk about accepting! ::)
Yes, he is now a politician.
If you would have actually read my post you may have understood what I was saying. Your vitriol is so overwhelming you cannot even have a civilized discussion, which is oddly the same attitudes liberals have and have been pushing for years.
I get it, you like a polished politician, even when you know he is pandering and lying to you. Again, this why BHO enjoys high approval ratings because he appeals to an audience with a message targeted right at them.
A polished politician can convince his audience he can pick a turd up by the clean end.
Post by: Lucifer on March 31, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Oh please. Give me a break. You're hearing from Trump what you want to hear.
And you only want to hear what you masters at National Review or the RNC talking points tell you what to hear and think.
Post by: FastEddieB on March 31, 2016, 08:16:13 AM
Abortion is one of the most contentious and high-profile issues we deal with.
I pulled up Graham Parker's "Alive In America" album yesterday as background music. He's one of my favorite artists.
If you don't know this song, I think its a powerful take on abortion.
I think it walks a fine line of showing the complexity of the subject, pointing out how emotional the whole process can be, without taking a moral stand.
The man certainly has a way with a lyric.
Post by: nddons on March 31, 2016, 08:17:59 AM
And you only want to hear what you masters at National Review or the RNC talking points tell you what to hear and think.Oooh, good comeback. This is going to be a high level conversation, isn't it?
Post by: asechrest on March 31, 2016, 08:18:08 AM
Yes, he is now a politician.
If you would have actually read my post you may have understood what I was saying. Your vitriol is so overwhelming you cannot even have a civilized discussion, which is oddly the same attitudes liberals have and have been pushing for years.
I get it, you like a polished politician, even when you know he is pandering and lying to you. Again, this why BHO enjoys high approval ratings because he appeals to an audience with a message targeted right at them.
A polished politician can convince his audience he can pick a turd up by the clean end.
This was not unpolished. This was someone who had not thought about the details of his superficial position. All Chris did was ask him the details of his own stance. It's ok to admit he botched it.
Post by: Bob Noel on March 31, 2016, 08:20:23 AM
I believe the problem is that he hasn't thought deeply about many of these subjects. Abortion is one of the most contentious and high-profile issues we deal with. He should have spent enough time thinking about his position to be able to field a question like that.
(caveat: I'm not trump fan)
What does it really matter what a Presidential candidate thinks about abortion? dispite the BS from obama, the President doesn't make laws.
Post by: nddons on March 31, 2016, 08:22:54 AM
This was not unpolished. This was someone who had not thought about the details of his superficial position. All Chris did was ask him the details of his own stance. It's ok to admit he botched it.Admitting an error is blasphemy to a Trump fan. Their hero has never had to apologize to anyone. He said so in the Town Hall in Wisconsin this week. He also said that he has never asked God for forgiveness about anything. It's wonderful to be perfect. Like the Dos Equis guy, "his only regret is not knowing what regret feels like."
Post by: nddons on March 31, 2016, 08:26:22 AM
(caveat: I'm not trump fan)Then he should have answered something like this:
What does it really matter what a Presidential candidate thinks about abortion? dispite the BS from obama, the President doesn't make laws.
"Morally and religiously I'm against abortion. However, since Roe v Wade is the law of the land, there is virtually nothing that a president or Congress can do about it. So I think your question is a moot issue intended to divide us as a nation. Let's focus on the questions that unite us."
Post by: asechrest on March 31, 2016, 08:31:03 AM
(caveat: I'm not trump fan)
What does it really matter what a Presidential candidate thinks about abortion? dispite the BS from obama, the President doesn't make laws.
With due respect, I find it really strange that you wouldn't care what the leader of the free world thinks about a contentious and high-profile issue that is important to millions of people, and for which battles are being fought all over the country. To suggest he or she couldn't hold some sway over the issue once in office seems dubious.
Post by: Lucifer on March 31, 2016, 08:34:24 AM
Oooh, good comeback. This is going to be a high level conversation, isn't it?
Truth hurts doesn't it?
Post by: Bob Noel on March 31, 2016, 08:42:03 AM
With due respect, I find it really strange that you wouldn't care what the leader of the free world thinks about a contentious and high-profile issue that is important to millions of people, and for which battles are being fought all over the country. To suggest he or she couldn't hold some sway over the issue once in office seems dubious.
I worry/care about the myriad of things a President can do.
Post by: nddons on March 31, 2016, 08:42:13 AM
Truth hurts doesn't it?Truth about you bringing the conversation into the gutter, just like Trump? Yea, I'm counting on it. I'm surprised you haven't called me "Lyin' nddons."
Post by: asechrest on March 31, 2016, 08:54:26 AM
I worry/care about the myriad of things a President can do.
My evaluation of the character of a presidential candidate is not that narrow. Further, there are many ways a president can affect things even though he or she doesn't make laws. This includes federal abortion policy and surrounding issues.
Post by: Dav8or on March 31, 2016, 08:59:32 AM
A polished politician can convince his audience he can pick a turd up by the clean end.
And Donald Trump can get people to vote for a turd with "plain talk". Why do you believe that Donald is not lying to you? Why do you believe that he is not playing the same game of bait and switch that all the other politicians play? Is that what makes truth... plain talk?
It must be that New York accent. People from New York never lie.
Post by: Lucifer on March 31, 2016, 09:07:12 AM
And Donald Trump can get people to vote for a turd with "plain talk". Why do you believe that Donald is not lying to you? Why do you believe that he is not playing the same game of bait and switch that all the other politicians play? Is that what makes truth... plain talk?
It must be that New York accent. People from New York never lie.
Everyone running for president is pandering, period. I even brought that up previously, as well as the fact I haven't supported anyone yet as I'm waiting for the convention to see who the nominee will be, which as I have said, will probably not be any of the candidates currently running.
People are attracted to the smooth political talk, the scripted answers with focal group key words. This is why BHO has been so successful and even enjoys high approval ratings today. Never mind the lies and deceptions, go for the smooth talker seems to be the mantra of modern politics.
Post by: JeffDG on March 31, 2016, 09:27:41 AM
I worry/care about the myriad of things a President can do.You may, but no evidence of Trump caring about things a President can do is sparse at best.
Post by: asechrest on March 31, 2016, 09:41:04 AM
I pulled up Graham Parker's "Alive In America" album yesterday as background music. He's one of my favorite artists.
If you don't know this song, I think its a powerful take on abortion.
<snipped video>
I think it walks a fine line of showing the complexity of the subject, pointing out how emotional the whole process can be, without taking a moral stand.
The man certainly has a way with a lyric.
Interesting. I'd never heard of him or this song. When reading about the song, I discovered they also have a song about abortion laws:
Post by: Lucifer on March 31, 2016, 04:02:14 PM
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ted-cruz/statements/
And yes, they are there for everyone else running also. Trying to paint anyone running for office as true blue and honest as the day is long is a myth, they ALL misspeak at one time or another.
Post by: PaulS on March 31, 2016, 05:50:43 PM
Here's an interesting collection of lies and half truths of Ted Cruz:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ted-cruz/statements/
And yes, they are there for everyone else running also. Trying to paint anyone running for office as true blue and honest as the day is long is a myth, they ALL misspeak at one time or another.
Politifact sucks, partisan crap.
Post by: nddons on March 31, 2016, 06:44:59 PM
Here's an interesting collection of lies and half truths of Ted Cruz:So let me get this straight. You ridicule and diminish National Review as an "establishment" source, but you cite a left-leaning site like Politifact to attempt to make a point?
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ted-cruz/statements/
And yes, they are there for everyone else running also. Trying to paint anyone running for office as true blue and honest as the day is long is a myth, they ALL misspeak at one time or another.
Post by: Lucifer on March 31, 2016, 06:54:45 PM
So let me get this straight. You ridicule and diminish National Review as an "establishment" source, but you cite a left-leaning site like Politifact to attempt to make a point?
Are you saying all of the lies and half truths, even when backed up with facts, are simply not true?
Post by: nddons on March 31, 2016, 07:05:03 PM
Are you saying all of the lies and half truths, even when backed up with facts, are simply not true?I'm saying you are a hypocrite and have selective outrage.
Post by: Lucifer on March 31, 2016, 07:17:48 PM
I'm saying you are a hypocrite and have selective outrage.
Hello pot! Meet kettle!
;D
Post by: JeffDG on March 31, 2016, 08:35:56 PM
Hello pot! Meet kettle!You keep saying that, but you never, ever, back it up.
;D
Post by: Gary on April 01, 2016, 04:39:51 PM
Politifact sucks, partisan crap.
Where did Politifact get the facts wrong? I'm willing to be convinced.
Gary
Post by: nddons on April 01, 2016, 07:05:47 PM
Where did Politifact get the facts wrong? I'm willing to be convinced.
Gary
Fact, as in 7 pages of assertions??
Read the second to last paragraph in this assertion. Politifact claims that Cruz was wrong, but admits that background checks can vary widely. In my view, that's what Cruz was implying, and I agree. If the background checks take 1 to 1 1/2 years (per the article) and Obama wants 100,000 refugees this year, do YOU really think background checks are going to happen just because Obama said they would be vetted?
I don't.
And that's what Politifact does. They ask an "expert" about something, take that as fact, and then claim a gotcha. Most of them have holes as I described above.