PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: asechrest on April 03, 2016, 07:10:14 PM
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Anyone following this incredibly massive data leak from a Panamanian company that creates and manages shell companies? It is 2.6 TB of data and more than 11 million files, And over 400 journalists from around the globe have been involved in processing the data.
Heads of state are already being revealed, and apparently there is much more to come.
http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/56febff0a1bb8d3c3495adf4
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OMG! Corruption exists!! Sorry to be cynical, but get back to me when famous people go to jail for life and multinational companies are ruined. This is just blah, blah, blah to sell advertising. Even if it is true, we all know nothing will happen and it will effect my life exactly zero. Rich and powerful people have been running the world since the beginning of civilization. Ever since the fall of the monarchs they have just had to hide it and pretend like the common people are in control.
It's their world and we just live in it.
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OMG! Corruption exists!! Sorry to be cynical, but get back to me when famous people go to jail for life and multinational companies are ruined. This is just blah, blah, blah to sell advertising. Even if it is true, we all know nothing will happen and it will effect my life exactly zero. Rich and powerful people have been running the world since the beginning of civilization. Ever since the fall of the monarchs they have just had to hide it and pretend like the common people are in control.
It's their world and we just live in it.
That just may be the most ridiculous post you ever made.
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Anyone following this incredibly massive data leak from a Panamanian company that creates and manages shell companies? It is 2.6 TB of data and more than 11 million files, And over 400 journalists from around the globe have been involved in processing the data.
Heads of state are already being revealed, and apparently there is much more to come.
http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/56febff0a1bb8d3c3495adf4
Should be interesting reading! But I'm shocked that there could be corruption going on in the world!! :) ;D
Gary
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That just may be the most ridiculous post you ever made.
What's the ridiculous part? ???
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As a result of the Panama Papers, Iceland's PM is facing a no confidence vote (http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/politics_and_society/2016/04/03/iceland_is_in_for_another_storm/) as well as large protests demanding he step down.
(http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5702d7321e0000b3007062f6.jpeg)
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The Chilean head of Transparency International has resigned.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N1771Z1
Looks like it is having an effect. Data on people from the US is forthcoming, apparently.
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The PM of Iceland has resigned.
http://grapevine.is/news/2016/04/05/prime-minister-resigns/
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My biggest issue with this one is one of rhetoric.
Folks like POTUS are talking about the evils of "tax avoidance". That bothers me.
To me, "tax avoidance" is the patriotic duty of every taxpayer. It is finding the legal way to pay the least possible taxes.
Tax evasion, on the other hand, is a crime. That is where you break the law.
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My biggest issue with this one is one of rhetoric.
Folks like POTUS are talking about the evils of "tax avoidance". That bothers me.
To me, "tax avoidance" is the patriotic duty of every taxpayer. It is finding the legal way to pay the least possible taxes.
Tax evasion, on the other hand, is a crime. That is where you break the law.
otoh - when the liberals avoid paying taxes, they (the liberals) somehow don't talk about how evil it is (local examples are the massachusetts liberals who opt not to pay the slightly higher income tax rate or the massholes that defend john live-shot kerry's docking his yacht in RI to avoid thousands in property taxes).
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otoh - when the liberals avoid paying taxes, they (the liberals) somehow don't talk about how evil it is (local examples are the massachusetts liberals who opt not to pay the slightly higher income tax rate or the massholes that defend john live-shot kerry's docking his yacht in RI to avoid thousands in property taxes).
I forgot about that. Kerry is a real hypocrite like most progressives. Like he needs the money. I'm sure Teresa is worth a pretty penny.
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Yeah, my point wasn't the hypocrisy, it's the change in rhetoric from tax avoidance being the duty of every taxpayer to something where if you use the law, you're evil because of it.
At least we don't have the GAAR here like in Canada. Revenue Canada has a regulation called the "General Anti Avoidance Rule", where if you do something that's completely legal, and they determine that you did it for the purpose of avoiding taxes, they will assess those taxes regardless. If you do something that's legal, however obscure it is, it's legal...period.
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Yeah, my point wasn't the hypocrisy, it's the change in rhetoric from tax avoidance being the duty of every taxpayer to something where if you use the law, you're evil because of it.
At least we don't have the GAAR here like in Canada. Revenue Canada has a regulation called the "General Anti Avoidance Rule", where if you do something that's completely legal, and they determine that you did it for the purpose of avoiding taxes, they will assess those taxes regardless. If you do something that's legal, however obscure it is, it's legal...period.
You will like this, Jeff.
Judge Learned Hand (great name) said the following in the landmark tax case Gregory v. Helvering:
"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."
That being said, Gregory v. Helvering put into place two doctrines that serve to act like GAAR. In order for a transaction to stand on its own, it needs to have a business purpose other than tax avoidance, and it must survive the doctrine of substance over form. In other words, if a transaction looks like a dog and smells like a dog but is described as a cat, the courts can recharacterize it as a dog.
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You will like this, Jeff.
Judge Learned Hand (great name) said the following in the landmark tax case Gregory v. Helvering:
"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."
That being said, Gregory v. Helvering put into place two doctrines that serve to act like GAAR. In order for a transaction to stand on its own, it needs to have a business purpose other than tax avoidance, and it must survive the doctrine of substance over form. In other words, if a transaction looks like a dog and smells like a dog but is described as a cat, the courts can recharacterize it as a dog.
That decision may well be the source of the line that it is the duty of taxpayers to pay as little tax as possible...I know the line comes from somewhere, but while the line stuck in my memory, the source did not.
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Tax evasion, on the other hand, is a crime. That is where you break the law.
But that line is many times gray. And the grayness almost always falls on the side of the Government if there's ever a question. This is how they keep people "in line." Make uncertainty scary and people will be less inclined to walk in the tax shadows, therefore profiting the Government.
Going to EVERYONE PAYS 10%, PERIOD puts a lot of accountants, lawyers, and Government Drones on the unemployment line, which is why it will never happen.
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Yes, many time that line is gray.
However the shift rhetorically is disturbing. POTUS and others are trying to make tax avoidance evil in and of itself, not tax evasion.
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But that line is many times gray. And the grayness almost always falls on the side of the Government if there's ever a question. This is how they keep people "in line." Make uncertainty scary and people will be less inclined to walk in the tax shadows, therefore profiting the Government.
Going to EVERYONE PAYS 10%, PERIOD puts a lot of accountants, lawyers, and Government Drones on the unemployment line, which is why it will never happen.
I'm a CPA working 80 hour weeks, so I would welcome it. However, I spend 95% of my time doing tax work for businesses and that would be somewhat unaffected by flat tax proposals. So it's not going to put me out of work.
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Yes, many time that line is gray.
However the shift rhetorically is disturbing. POTUS and others are trying to make tax avoidance evil in and of itself, not tax evasion.
That's exactly right. Honestly I haven't kept up on this Panama Papers story, but if exposes hypocritical leftists, I'm ALL for it.
These people destroy their countries by brutal tax and spend policies, and these "leaders" seek out tax havens for themselves.
I don't fault people for doing that. I fault them for being hypocrites.
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That's exactly right. Honestly I haven't kept up on this Panama Papers story, but if exposes hypocritical leftists, I'm ALL for it.
These people destroy their countries by brutal tax and spend policies, and these "leaders" seek out tax havens for themselves.
I don't fault people for doing that. I fault them for being hypocrites.
I have a feeling the exposure will be bi-partisan.
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I have a feeling the exposure will be bi-partisan.
Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be. And given the testicle-free Republicans in the party, most will apologize and show extreme remorse. Others should say "Fuck yea I did it. So what?"
But most Liberals have been on the "paying taxes is patriotic" bandwagon. That's who I'm talking about.
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Others should say "Fuck yea I did it. So what?"
Why? This is about tax evasion using off-shore shell companies.
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Why? This is about tax evasion using off-shore shell companies.
"Evasion" is an operative word. Is that what it is, as in illegal tax fraud? Or is it tax avoidance? Like j said, I haven't been able to keep up on this story, being tax season and all.
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Why? This is about tax evasion using off-shore shell companies.
Actually, most of this is tax avoidance, not tax evasion.
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"Evasion" is an operative word. Is that what it is, as in illegal tax fraud? Or is it tax avoidance? Like j said, I haven't been able to keep up on this story, being tax season and all.
There is nothing illegal about using these offshore accounts. There is not even anything wrong with using shell companies that used offshore accounts.
The problem is that there are a lot of illegal activities that are able to launder their money by using shells within shells within shells that hide money in off-shore accounts and are thus able to evade taxes. And that practice is prevalent.
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There is nothing illegal about using these offshore accounts. There is not even anything wrong with using shell companies that used offshore accounts.
I have to file a document with the Treasury Department every year about my retirement account in Canada, so, yes, I have "offshore" accounts.
Also, anyone ever wonder what the "TD" stands for in "TD Ameritrade"? Toronto Dominion bank.
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I have to file a document with the Treasury Department every year about my retirement account in Canada, so, yes, I have "offshore" accounts.
Also, anyone ever wonder what the "TD" stands for in "TD Ameritrade"? Toronto Dominion bank.
Huh. I never knew that.
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Huh. I never knew that.
Pretty obvious to any Canadian. There are 5 major banks in Canada, and the logo is VERY well known as #2.
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Actually, most of this is tax avoidance, not tax evasion.
Ok. I may be mistaken, then. I thought this was all about tax evasion using fake companies. I'll have to do more reading.
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Ok. I may be mistaken, then. I thought this was all about tax evasion using fake companies. I'll have to do more reading.
Myself as well.
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I'm a CPA working 80 hour weeks, so I would welcome it. However, I spend 95% of my time doing tax work for businesses and that would be somewhat unaffected by flat tax proposals. So it's not going to put me out of work.
Why should businesses be stuck with the burden of paperwork? You know that tax ramifications affect almost every business decision. How great would it be to not have to deal with that?
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Why should businesses be stuck with the burden of paperwork? You know that tax ramifications affect almost every business decision. How great would it be to not have to deal with that?
Even if you make a flat tax, businesses will still need accountants to keep their books straight, just to determine what their profit is for the purposes of calculating the flat tax.
I've not seen a "flat tax" proposal that is on gross revenue, almost always net, so you have to keep track of your expenses, and your capex v. opex and all that fun stuff. Those are things that a business owner needs to know regardless of taxes anyway. You could exempt businesses from tax, and accountants would still be firmly in business.
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Even if you make a flat tax, businesses will still need accountants to keep their books straight, just to determine what their profit is for the purposes of calculating the flat tax.
I've not seen a "flat tax" proposal that is on gross revenue, almost always net, so you have to keep track of your expenses, and your capex v. opex and all that fun stuff. Those are things that a business owner needs to know regardless of taxes anyway. You could exempt businesses from tax, and accountants would still be firmly in business.
Absolutely, that's a productive occupation. But a vast simplification of the tax code makes that easier.
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Absolutely, that's a productive occupation. But a vast simplification of the tax code makes that easier.
Just for fun, page through the Internal Revenue Code Table of Contents.
http://taxtv.com/code/toc-2013/
(I never heard of "TaxTV" but the table is accurate.)
Then see how much is related to individual taxation, and how much pertains to everything else.
To put it in perspective, I have a two-book set of the Internal Revenue Code on my bookshelf that takes up about 6" of shelf space, printed in small type on that thin paper stock. It's 5,622 pages, plus indexes, etc.
The Income Tax Regulations that interpret the Code take up 16" of shelf space, printed in small type on that thin paper stock, and is 93,614 pages long.
A flat tax will make very little impact on the Code.
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To put it in perspective, I have a two-book set of the Internal Revenue Code on my bookshelf that takes up about 6" of shelf space, printed in small type on that thin paper stock. It's 5,622 pages, plus indexes, etc.
The Income Tax Regulations that interpret the Code take up 16" of shelf space, printed in small type on that thin paper stock, and is 93,614 pages long.
That's soft tyranny.
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That's soft tyranny.
It really is.
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Cruz wants to abolish the IRS, and replace it with a simple flat tax. That would be great.
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Ok. I may be mistaken, then. I thought this was all about tax evasion using fake companies. I'll have to do more reading.
thats what I read it is about. Unless someone knows different, that's what I'm going with.