PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Little Joe on April 06, 2023, 04:05:01 AM
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I don't agree with all the hand-wringing about "we are doomed", "There is nothing we can do" etc.
And I especially don't agree with the feeling that there is nothing we can do because however many people vote Republican, the Dems will just cheat and create all the votes they need.
I do agree with the conservative stances on things like economics, defense, gun rights, personal responsibility, voter ID, border security and a lot more, but there are some very hot and very divisive issues where we need to find some middle ground.
I think many of the Republicans problems are brought on by themselves.
(go ahead, call me a pussy, rino, liberal troll whatever).
But I think one of the big things killing their chances at the polls is their stance on abortion. I don't agree with abortion, but I don't think my opinion should be foisted on others.
Here is what I think the Repbulican position on abortion should be:
Abortion should be decided on by the woman over 18 (or pick an age), her doctor, AND the father.
Or
decided by the girl, her doctor AND her parents.
The Federal government should not fund abortion, but they should not stand in the way of private abortion financing
They should not turn doctors and abortion clinics into criminals, unless they do something criminal (like selling baby parts).
That would take a lot of the stamina out of the pro-abortionist movement, and thus the anti-Republican movement.
There are other issues. When I get time I will start another similar thread on the environment.
Fire away.
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Abortion is a state issue. See the Dobbs decision.
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The problem with the “find middle ground” scenario is the left has gone so far radical, and they will not budge.
The left expects the right to give on everything, with nothing in return. How’s that negotiating?
And the right usually cucks itself and bends, only to get it shoved up our asses.
You and a few others still deny that the democrat party is no more, and refuse to accept we are now dealing with a violent radical faction he’ll bent on destruction.
BTW, for anyone that missed it, on last nights Tucker Carlson he had Jason Whitlock on. Mr Whitlock began expressing his views on dealing with the radicals, and said it’s time to break away. Fox News cut the feed off and went to commercials, and ended his segment. Don’t expect to see Mr Whitlock invited back.
These are the radicals that demand censorship over conversation. You tell me how we “negotiate” with that.
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Abortion is a state issue. See the Dobbs decision.
Ok, then change one word in my post.
"The Federal government should not fund abortion, but they should not stand in the way of private abortion financing"
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The problem with the “find middle ground” scenario is the left has gone so far radical, and they will not budge.
That is very true about the Democrat party, and many Liberals.
But there are a lot of "not-so-left" Democrat voters and many independent voters that could be swayed.
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I don't agree with all the hand-wringing about "we are doomed", "There is nothing we can do" etc.
And I especially don't agree with the feeling that there is nothing we can do because however many people vote Republican, the Dems will just cheat and create all the votes they need.
I do agree with the conservative stances on things like economics, defense, gun rights, personal responsibility, voter ID, border security and a lot more, but there are some very hot and very divisive issues where we need to find some middle ground.
I think many of the Republicans problems are brought on by themselves.
(go ahead, call me a pussy, rino, liberal troll whatever).
But I think one of the big things killing their chances at the polls is their stance on abortion. I don't agree with abortion, but I don't think my opinion should be foisted on others.
Here is what I think the Repbulican position on abortion should be:
Abortion should be decided on by the woman over 18 (or pick an age), her doctor, AND the father.
Or
decided by the girl, her doctor AND her parents.
The Federal government should not fund abortion, but they should not stand in the way of private abortion financing
They should not turn doctors and abortion clinics into criminals, unless they do something criminal (like selling baby parts).
That would take a lot of the stamina out of the pro-abortionist movement, and thus the anti-Republican movement.
There are other issues. When I get time I will start another similar thread on the environment.
Fire away.
The Republicans ARE THE PROBLEM. It doesn't matter if they get elected or not. They are complicit with the Dems in a big, controlling, overbearing, expensive Government/Corporate cabal. Please, elections don't matter anymore. Neither does protest, political activism, nor financial support. The USA no longer exists. It is the Democratic Republic of the former Los Estados Unidos.
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The Republicans ARE THE PROBLEM. It doesn't matter if they get elected or not. They are complicit with the Dems in a big, controlling, overbearing, expensive Government/Corporate cabal. Please, elections don't matter anymore. Neither does protest, political activism, nor financial support. The USA no longer exists. It is the Democratic Republic of the former Los Estados Unidos.
That's exactly the attitude I reject. If I ever come around to that viewpoint, and perhaps I will some day, I will pack up and leave.
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What about the rights of the baby/fetus/blob?
The baby/fetus/blob is a genetically distinct life.
I have no issue with "my body, my choice"... but that isn't exactly the case with a woman who is pregnant. It's not just her body.
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That's exactly the attitude I reject. If I ever come around to that viewpoint, and perhaps I will some day, I will pack up and leave.
Except for Trump, what have any of them really DONE to stop the march to Fascism, the big Government/Corporate/Uniparty?
So you're in denial and deluding yourself. Ok, if that works for you. (Not trying to trigger you, btw)
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Just for perspective:
Name a major issue the left has negotiated in good faith on in the last ten years?
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Except for Trump, what have any of them really DONE to stop the march to Fascism, the big Government/Corporate/Uniparty?
So you're in denial and deluding yourself. Ok, if that works for you. (Not trying to trigger you, btw)
What did Trump actually stop? He added as much debt as any recent President. I have enjoyed the tax system with the large standard deduction, saves me time doing my taxes. The tough part is predicting each year how much of my SS the Government is going to tax. I wish someone would campaign on not taxing your SS benefits.
The lower gas prices were good too. We're still up 59% from 1/18/21.
Unemployment is currently as low as it was under Trump.
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I hold many thoughts at once on this subject, trying as always to stick with hard facts, reality and pragmatism.
1. Abortion is killing a live human no matter the stage of pregnancy.
2. Under some circumstances, killing a live human is morally justified but where that line is, is a matter of opinion. In my opinion, it is justified only in two cases: 1. to save the life of the mother, 2. If the baby has a severe defect and will suffer needlessly if allowed to be born. Those are the only justifications for abortion. I do not think rape or incest justifies killing a healthy baby, nor just because the mother is 14 and it would “ruin her life.”
3. Having said that, we must acknowledge there is a cost to the individual and to society of young unwed motherhood. There is a strong association between being raised without a father and criminal behavior, and the cost to the taxpayer to raise a child that the parents couldn’t afford is much higher than the cost of an abortion.
4. Having said that, that doesn’t mean I support using taxpayer dollars to pay for people’s abortions. First, it doesn’t matter the relative savings, public money shouldn’t be used to fund anyones “healthcare” anyway. Second, the cost to society preventing these children from being born, even if a proportion of them turn out to be criminals, may be way higher in the long run, due to population collapse. We need a lot of babies to be born. We are dangerously close to dipping under replacement rate.
5. Due to feminism among other things, the trend among young people is away from marriage and nuclear family. This bodes very badly for many reasons but what to do about it is far from clear. Birth control and women entering the workforce are two big factors, but we can’t simply become the Taliban and outlaw those things, hoping to return to the 1950s traditional paradigm.
6. It may seem like outlawing abortion will result in more babies but that’s not certain. Where abortion is outlawed women up their use of birth control and get pregnant less often in the first place, and women travel to other states where it’s legal. To say for example, “When it was legal in this state there were 1000 abortions but since we outlawed it there were only 100 therefore we saved 900 babies” is very bad logic. You aren’t going to have 900 more babies. You may have some number more but it’s unclear how many.
7. So, painting all that backdrop, conservatives, upholding morality, i.e. “Thou Shalt Not Kill”, and wishing a return to traditional family structure, want to outlaw all abortion; while liberals, with the morals of a psychopath, and the false specter of human overpopulation “destroying the planet”, want to eradicate reproduction altogether and are fine with killing the baby up to and after birth at full term.
8. In actual reality that last scenario probably almost never happens outside the context of a severely deformed child in which case I agree the decisions about how to handle the situation should remain between the parents and their doctor. This used to be the case, but now the political climate has made both sides dig in to extreme positions: The left: Abort a healthy baby up to 9 months. The right: Outlaw allowing even a sick, deformed baby to die naturally by withholding care.
9. So finally to get to the politics. We had an uneasy truce for half a century that actually coincided with public opinion as well as historical norms. Prior to modern technology, life was considered to begin with “quickening” or when the mother felt the baby move, around 16 to 20 weeks. Abortion was illegal after that point, but not before. There weren’t really any safe surgical techniques for most of history but there were herbs used to terminate a pregnancy. Roe v Wade roughly followed that same timeline. Abortion legal in the 1st trimester, limited in the 2nd and not allowed in the 3rd. That aligns with majority of public opinion. A majority believe abortion should be legal in the first trimester but a majority also believe late term abortions should be illegal.
10. This truce worked however it was unconstitutional. The SC was correct to overturn it. However that has had disastrous effects politically for the Republicans. It was thought it would have little impact on the midterms but our huge red tsunami slowed to a trickle. We know much of the reason was the lack of RINO support for certain MAGA candidates, and there was cheating in certain districts but it’s unclear how much abortion was on the minds of young voters in particular. As I said, youth are shunning the idea of marriage and family and know no world where early abortion wasn’t legal. To them, reversing RvW was as shocking as if they woke up one day to see we’d transported back to the dinosaur age.
11. It would have been much more politically strategic if the SC had not taken the case at this time. They are supposed to rule by the Constitution, not politics, but there is nothing forcing them to take cases, they reject hundreds if not thousands of cases for each one they take. And I personally would have preferred they take Texas et al and addressed election fraud rather than RvW, because if we lose fair elections we lose the Republic and if we lose the Republic the U.S. loses its position as safety patrol of ocean trade routes and if the U.S. loses that, the entire global economy is threatened leading to far more human death than abortion in the U.S.
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What did Trump actually stop? He added as much debt as any recent President. I have enjoyed the tax system with the large standard deduction, saves me time doing my taxes. The tough part is predicting each year how much of my SS the Government is going to tax. I wish someone would campaign on not taxing your SS benefits.
The lower gas prices were good too. We're still up 59% from 1/18/21.
Unemployment is currently as low as it was under Trump.
Off the top of my head:
Domestic Energy Independence/Low Energy Costs overall/net exporter of energy
Helped create a very positive economic environment with job growth, real wage increases, very low unemployment/LOW INFLATION
Slowed down illegal alien invasion
National Defense/Security were much better (fewer wars, no new wars)
Stood up to anti-American Wokeism, BLM. Antifa, CRT, etc
Promoted America First and practical/pragmatic priorities not DIVISIVE LGBTqxz, Racism, Sexism, etc
So while not perfect, he accomplished a lot and was at least TRYING to do the rest.
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Unemployment is currently as low as it was under Trump.
That’s partially an illusion. It doesn’t take into account the numbers of people who have given up looking for a job or who have left the job market or refused to enter it (ie young men living in mom’s basement playing video games and jerking off to porn all day).
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That is very true about the Democrat party, and many Liberals.
But there are a lot of "not-so-left" Democrat voters and many independent voters that could be swayed.
Here’s the problem with your premise.
This is a wedge issue for the democrats. The incumbents know it, and will never let it go.
John Roberts guaranteed this wedge issue right before the 2022 race.
Republicans could offer free abortions, but only through the 10th month of pregnancy, and the democrats would reject it, and send the ugly hags who could never get laid if their life depended on it out to the Capitol screaming “My body, my choice.”
There is no compromise in their mind.
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That’s partially an illusion. It doesn’t take into account the numbers of people who have given up looking for a job or who have left the job market or refused to enter it (ie young men living in mom’s basement playing video games and jerking off to porn all day).
Companies are announcing layoffs constantly now. Unemployment is a LAGGING Economic Indicator. Our economy is tanking and so will Employment....unfortunately. >:(
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Companies are announcing layoffs constantly now. Unemployment is a LAGGING Economic Indicator. Our economy is tanking and so will Employment....unfortunately. >:(
Another part of the problem is employment is very skewed. Yes, companies are laying off, but they are white collar jobs in the tech fields and elsewhere. In other areas there is a shortage of workers. Construction, car maintenance, railroad workers, basically the jobs that keep the economy actually going.
This is the consequence of generations of telling kids they all must go to college and get journalism or law degrees. Nobody wants to be a plumber or truck driver.
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Another part of the problem is employment is very skewed. Yes, companies are laying off, but they are white collar jobs in the tech fields and elsewhere. In other areas there is a shortage of workers. Construction, car maintenance, railroad workers, basically the jobs that keep the economy actually going.
This is the consequence of generations of telling kids they all must go to college and get journalism or law degrees. Nobody wants to be a plumber or truck driver.
The higher wage "value added" jobs are being reduced as are layers of management which are also higher paying. Especially Tech and Media which are the Wokest. Yes, we need more tradesman and technicians that actually fix and make stuff.
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That’s partially an illusion. It doesn’t take into account the numbers of people who have given up looking for a job or who have left the job market or refused to enter it (ie young men living in mom’s basement playing video games and jerking off to porn all day).
I understand the workforce participation rate is not what it was. How many of those that hear the number understand that?
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I understand the workforce participation rate is not what it was. How many of those that hear the number understand that?
“Lying flat” is becoming a reality in the U.S.
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Except for Trump, what have any of them really DONE to stop the march to Fascism, the big Government/Corporate/Uniparty?
So you're in denial and deluding yourself. Ok, if that works for you. (Not trying to trigger you, btw)
What did Trump do before he got elected?
I can definitely see and agree with not voting for members of the swamp that have proven their worthlessness.
But Trump is not the ONLY man in America that can do good things. The problem is that we don't elect those good people for any number of stupid reasons.
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Here’s the problem with your premise.
This is a wedge issue for the democrats. The incumbents know it, and will never let it go.
John Roberts guaranteed this wedge issue right before the 2022 race.
Republicans could offer free abortions, but only through the 10th month of pregnancy, and the democrats would reject it, and send the ugly hags who could never get laid if their life depended on it out to the Capitol screaming “My body, my choice.”
There is no compromise in their mind.
And here is the problem with your objection:
You are lumping every democrat VOTER and every liberal VOTER in with the same mindset.
Yes, all of the politicians, on both sides follow the party line, and most of the press parrots the leftist party line, but not all of them.
There are still a lot of voters that are actually swayed by issues. Some, like me, struggle over balancing all of the issues, weighing the pros and cons and deciding which group best fits my view. And there are a lot (too many) that are single issue voters (eg, abortion, 2A, environment).
Of those, I think the abortionists are the most passionate group on the left.
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What about the rights of the baby/fetus/blob?
The baby/fetus/blob is a genetically distinct life.
I have no issue with "my body, my choice"... but that isn't exactly the case with a woman who is pregnant. It's not just her body.
Yeah, that's the rub. But to be honest and for very complex reasons, that argument doesn't bother me too much. Nor does it bother a whole bunch of VOTERS. And in this country, we still vote on things (either directly or through representatives).. We don't rule by religious decree.
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Ok, then change one word in my post.
"The Federal government should not fund abortion, but they should not stand in the way of private abortion financing"
Now you’re dealing with 50 different situations.
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Now you’re dealing with 50 different situations.
Can’t please you, can I? ;)
But no. I’m only dealing with ONE issue.
Conservative position on abortion.
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Yeah, that's the rub. But to be honest and for very complex reasons, that argument doesn't bother me too much. Nor does it bother a whole bunch of VOTERS. And in this country, we still vote on things (either directly or through representatives).. We don't rule by religious decree.
And in most of those situations, the representatives are not following the will of the voters. Nor does the party.
You need to remove the rose colored glasses and realize the changes that have taken place. Tyrants don’t have any use for voters, or laws they dislike.
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Can’t please you, can I? ;)
But no. I’m only dealing with ONE issue.
Conservative position on abortion.
It’s not a matter of pleasing me or anyone else. It’s a matter of reality.
You started this with a weak understanding of the law. I corrected you by stating a fact. Then you tweaked your question, but even that doesn’t make sense.
Abortion is a state matter. We have 50 states, with different make ups. What works in California doesn’t work in Florida.
The founding fathers wanted it this way. They wanted the states run individually and very little if any involvement by the federal government. The solution to problems is not by expanding government.
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It’s not a matter of pleasing me or anyone else. It’s a matter of reality.
You started this with a weak understanding of the law. I corrected you by stating a fact. Then you tweaked your question, but even that doesn’t make sense.
Abortion is a state matter. We have 50 states, with different make ups. What works in California doesn’t work in Florida.
The founding fathers wanted it this way. They wanted the states run individually and very little if any involvement by the federal government. The solution to problems is not by expanding government.
The only thing I disagree with here is your estimation of my understanding.
I have always said that most issues, including abortion, should be a state matter. I have especially expounded on this idea regarding education. The educational needs in Alaska are different than in Florida or DC or Alabama. If something works in one state and fails in another state, then at least the whole country didn't experience the failure. States that choose the wrong path will either wake up or not.
And just because there are 50 states, I only live in one of them (at the moment anyway). I deal with my state and hope the other states do the right thing. But that is the choice of people that live in those states.
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And here is the problem with your objection:
You are lumping every democrat VOTER and every liberal VOTER in with the same mindset.
Yes, all of the politicians, on both sides follow the party line, and most of the press parrots the leftist party line, but not all of them.
There are still a lot of voters that are actually swayed by issues. Some, like me, struggle over balancing all of the issues, weighing the pros and cons and deciding which group best fits my view. And there are a lot (too many) that are single issue voters (eg, abortion, 2A, environment).
Of those, I think the abortionists are the most passionate group on the left.
I’m using the laboratory of the Wisconsin Supreme Court race as my evidence that democrats vote issues, not people, and abortion was the key issue in this race.
The liberal that won was a serial elder abuser who beat her conservative judge husband who was twice her age, called blacks “niggers” in the back rooms of the courthouse, soft on crime, giving serial rapists probation and letting murderers out of long sentences, and other things, announced she would advocate for abortion and overturn gerrymandered maps, Act 10, voter ID, violating every tenet of judicial behavior.
She pulled a Biden and never campaigned, and agreed to only one debate - held at 11:45AM on a Tuesday in the Wisconsin Bar offices, un-televised, so the electorate wouldn’t see her on a debate.
Fucking John Fetterman had more debate visibility than this judge.
Yet Wisconsin democrats elected her overwhelmingly over a constitutionalist conservative judge.
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I’m using the laboratory of the Wisconsin Supreme Court race as my evidence that democrats vote issues, not people, and abortion was the key issue in this race.
That is my point, so it looks like you agree with me, but I was under the impression you did not agree with me.
So as Lucifer says, I must be weak on understanding things.
Abortion was the key issue in that race, and abortion will be the key issue in a whole bunch of races next year. Conservatives can choose to die on that hill, but I advise against it.
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I’m using the laboratory of the Wisconsin Supreme Court race as my evidence that democrats vote issues, not people, and abortion was the key issue in this race.
The liberal that won was a serial elder abuser who beat her conservative judge husband who was twice her age, called blacks “niggers” in the back rooms of the courthouse, soft on crime, giving serial rapists probation and letting murderers out of long sentences, and other things, announced she would advocate for abortion and overturn gerrymandered maps, Act 10, voter ID, violating every tenet of judicial behavior.
She pulled a Biden and never campaigned, and agreed to only one debate - held at 11:45AM on a Tuesday in the Wisconsin Bar offices, un-televised, so the electorate wouldn’t see her on a debate.
Fucking John Fetterman had more debate visibility than this judge.
Yet Wisconsin democrats elected her overwhelmingly over a constitutionalist conservative judge.
Thank you.
Until the republicans decide to fight fire with fire, nothing changes. People need to realize the democrat party is no more, and is run by tyrannical leftist. Trying to negotiate and bargain with them gets us nowhere.
Thinking that elections are fairly ran and won is a thing of the past. These fuckers play the long game, and take no prisoners.
It’s past time to turn the tables.
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That is my point, so it looks like you agree with me, but I was under the impression you did not agree with me.
So as Lucifer says, I must be weak on understanding things.
Abortion was the key issue in that race, and abortion will be the key issue in a whole bunch of races next year. Conservatives can choose to die on that hill, but I advise against it.
How much are you willing to give up for nothing in return?
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\He added as much debt as any recent President. ...
<sigh> The President doesn't add or subtract debt.
Spending is the responsibility of Congress.
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That is my point, so it looks like you agree with me, but I was under the impression you did not agree with me.
So as Lucifer says, I must be weak on understanding things.
Abortion was the key issue in that race, and abortion will be the key issue in a whole bunch of races next year. Conservatives can choose to die on that hill, but I advise against it.
I never thought the Republicans should make abortion an issue again. It is a lose/lose, although I agree with it being in the jurisdiction of the States not the Feds.
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I’m using the laboratory of the Wisconsin Supreme Court race as my evidence that democrats vote issues, not people, and abortion was the key issue in this race.
The liberal that won was a serial elder abuser who beat her conservative judge husband who was twice her age, called blacks “niggers” in the back rooms of the courthouse, soft on crime, giving serial rapists probation and letting murderers out of long sentences, and other things, announced she would advocate for abortion and overturn gerrymandered maps, Act 10, voter ID, violating every tenet of judicial behavior.
She pulled a Biden and never campaigned, and agreed to only one debate - held at 11:45AM on a Tuesday in the Wisconsin Bar offices, un-televised, so the electorate wouldn’t see her on a debate.
Fucking John Fetterman had more debate visibility than this judge.
Yet Wisconsin democrats elected her overwhelmingly over a constitutionalist conservative judge.
I think that liberal voters care more about the (D) next to a candidates name. If people really cared about issues they would research for themselves instead of listening to talking points from the media, and they would have an epiphany of original thinking and see how they are being lied to. They sure as hell didn't learn their lesson with the new mayor in Chicago.
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<sigh> The President doesn't add or subtract debt.
Spending is the responsibility of Congress.
<sigh>Congress passes spending bills, the President must sign those before any spending can take place.
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What did Trump do before he got elected?
I can definitely see and agree with not voting for members of the swamp that have proven their worthlessness.
But Trump is not the ONLY man in America that can do good things. The problem is that we don't elect those good people for any number of stupid reasons.
Donald Trump employed thousands and thousands of people in good paying jobs, added to the economy, he did more than the entire swamp put together.
Your bullshit aside, using that aa a whipping post is pure assholeryl
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Donald Trump employed thousands and thousands of people in good paying jobs, added to the economy, he did more than the entire swamp put together.
Your bullshit aside, using that aa a whipping post is pure assholeryl
My point was that he never did anything within and about the bureaucracy and the swamp, UNTIL he got elected President. Then he did a lot of good things. So I'm not using him as a whipping post. That is strictly in your imagination. I am holding him up as an example.
My other point is that Trump is not the ONLY man in America that can do good things once elected.
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I never thought the Republicans should make abortion an issue again. It is a lose/lose, although I agree with it being in the jurisdiction of the States not the Feds.
The thing is, they didn’t, except for morons like Lindsey Graham who sends an abortion bill right before the 2022 elections.
In general, I see silence from the Republicans on abortion. They are comfortable taking a win on the Dobbs decision, and letting the states fight it out.
That doesn’t matter to democrats, however. If you have an R on your jersey, you are deemed to endorse making raped little girls to carry a baby to term, and then you’re dead, politically.
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That is my point, so it looks like you agree with me, but I was under the impression you did not agree with me.
So as Lucifer says, I must be weak on understanding things.
Abortion was the key issue in that race, and abortion will be the key issue in a whole bunch of races next year. Conservatives can choose to die on that hill, but I advise against it.
I think we differ on two points:
1. I don’t think a “compromise” exists on abortion that will get democrats to back off and not smear Republican candidates; and
2. I think that liberal voters don’t care about the character of a D candidate or their issues. Abortion is the only thing that matters to them, again, based on what I saw in Wisconsin on Tuesday.
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An abortion bill without some qualifications will be a loser every time.
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The thing is, they didn’t, except for morons like Lindsey Graham who sends an abortion bill right before the 2022 elections.
In general, I see silence from the Republicans on abortion. They are comfortable taking a win on the Dobbs decision, and letting the states fight it out.
That doesn’t matter to democrats, however. If you have an R on your jersey, you are deemed to endorse making raped little girls to carry a baby to term, and then you’re dead, politically.
One problem that I see is that some Red States have passed, or are trying to pass very strict anti-abortion laws, to the point of being absurd.
Then the Democrats have an easy job of painting all Rs with the anti-abortion brush. I don't see this as a winning approach.
I agree that this should be a State issue. But it is also a highly inflammatory issue and an issue that many voters make THE ONLY ISSUE. If Republicans ever want to win again,they need to distance themselves from issues that are not essential to the national economy or national defense and that rile up so many people to such lofty heights of rage.
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I think we differ on two points:
1. I don’t think a “compromise” exists on abortion that will get democrats to back off and not smear Republican candidates;
But why make their job so easy?
and
2. I think that liberal voters don’t care about the character of a D candidate or their issues. Abortion is the only thing that matters to them, again, based on what I saw in Wisconsin on Tuesday.
We don't differ on that, even if we do differ on how to respond. Politicians that take an anti-abortion stance are merely putting a target on their back and saying "shoot me". They are going to be shot at anyway, but why make the target so clear? In the scheme of things, how does abortion hurt anyone not involved. Like the meme I see on here all the time: "show me on the doll where someone else getting abortion hurts you".
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I'm making a separate, standalone post here to re-iterate:
I am not pro abortion. I am all about getting conservatives elected by abandoning a position that is so emotional and so irrelevant to everything else. I'm not trying to advocate abortion. I'm advocating dropping the issue altogether.
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My other point is that Trump is not the ONLY man in America that can do good things once elected.
Maybe, Maybe Not. But he is the only one that has in the last 45 years.
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Maybe, Maybe Not. But he is the only one that has in the last 45 years.
I’m not sure if you are referring to Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter as the last great President.
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Maybe, Maybe Not. But he is the only one that has in the last 45 years.
Ronald Reagan hardest hit.
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Ronald Reagan hardest hit.
I regard RR as being the greatest President I can remember. But he was President 34 to 42 years ago, and since I assumed #7 can do basic arithmetic, he must have ruled RR out as a President that did good things.
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One problem that I see is that some Red States have passed, or are trying to pass very strict anti-abortion laws, to the point of being absurd.
Then the Democrats have an easy job of painting all Rs with the anti-abortion brush. I don't see this as a winning approach.
I agree that this should be a State issue. But it is also a highly inflammatory issue and an issue that many voters make THE ONLY ISSUE. If Republicans ever want to win again,they need to distance themselves from issues that are not essential to the national economy or national defense and that rile up so many people to such lofty heights of rage.
It has indeed inflamed both sides, and Republicans in some cases are going too far. For example, instilling fear in doctors with, for example, poorly worded bans on abortion with exceptions to save the life of the mother, and doctors fearing prosecution if they draw the line somewhere short of what the state believes is imminent danger to the mother’s life. Some states use the term “medical emergency”.
For example, ectopic pregnancy in the Fallopian tube should be removed immediately but the woman’s life isn’t in danger right away, only after it grows to the point of being about to rupture the tube. It’s not a medical emergency until then. The doctor fears prosecution if he doesn’t wait until it’s critical.
Ectopic pregnancy outside the tube, in the abdominal cavity. Can be viable, the baby can grow to term and be surgically removed and survive. I have heard some Republicans say such a pregnancy should not be terminated because the mother’s life isn’t technically immediately in danger. But abdominal pregnancy is extremely dangerous and it’s very irresponsible to allow it to proceed. There is a high likelihood the baby will die anyway and kill its mother in the process. But you will hear radical pro-life people insist such pregnancies should be allowed to continue. I even heard one person say such a pregnancy should be transplanted into the uterus. Needless to say that is ignorant as hell. You cannot transplant a placenta.
Natural death of the baby at all stages of pregnancy is very common but not talked about much, so people are unaware that the treatment is identical to abortion unless your body goes into labor on its own which it often doesn’t. In states that banned abortion there are now problems finding doctors to treat you when your baby dies inside you. These states didn’t account for doctors who provided the full range of services to close shop and leave.
If the baby dies early you can be treated with the “abortion pill” but states are now banning those meds and sometimes banning mail ordering them, forcing women to travel to another state or wait for weeks while carrying their dead baby to see if their body will finally expel it. The law might be written to make exceptions for miscarriage but in reality doctors are fearing they’ll be accused of fudging the record to get around the abortion ban, so they stop treating miscarriage, and tell the woman to wait a while and see if it comes out on its own. If it doesn’t, you can get an infection, then go septic, THEN it’s a “medical emergency” and now the doctor can remove the now rotted remains.
These are the unintended consequences of abortion bans and ironically the people they hurt the most are the mothers grieving the loss of a very much wanted baby.
Reversing RvW was constitutionally correct - it never should have existed in the first place. But since it did, the entire country’s OB/GYN industry has evolved for half a century with all these services intertwined and the sudden reversal and states’ “trigger” laws has left a vacuum for care of women who actually want their babies.
Before RvW these medical tragedies were handled as a private matter between the woman and the doctor, as they should be. But we can’t go back to that now because we’ve had this long interval where the healthcare industry has grown under a nationwide legal environment that has now been suddenly disrupted and hasn’t had a chance to settle into a new system that will support the women who desperately want a baby but suffer sometimes multiple miscarriages and stillbirths.
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I regard RR as being the greatest President I can remember. But he was President 34 to 42 years ago, and since I assumed #7 can do basic arithmetic, he must have ruled RR out as a President that did good things.
Um…. wow. 34 to 42? It can’t be that long ago. I’m not that old. That was just, like, yesterday. Wasn’t it?
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I’m not sure if you are referring to Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter as the last great President.
Gerald afford was nice man but rather milk toast as President.
Jimmy was a fucking train wreck.
45 years was a play on words.
Think about it.