PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on April 13, 2016, 05:25:21 AM
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/04/13/peabody-energy-coal-chapter-11-bankruptcy/82971246/
"The nation's biggest coal company, Peabody Energy, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/amid-prolonged-industry-downturn-peabody-energy-takes-major-step-to-strengthen-liquidity-and-reduce-debt-through-chapter-11-protection-300250678.html?tc=eml_cleartime)on Wednesday as the coal industry grapples with the fallout of low natural gas prices, costly regulations and legacy costs."
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We have the technology now to burn coal cleanly, yet Obama, and the Democrats couldn't wait to destroy the industry and THOUSANDS OF JOBS. Thank goodness for the fracking industry providing inexpensive natural gas.
Almost half of our electricity is generated by COAL. Where do you think the price is going to go?
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We have the technology now to burn coal cleanly, yet Obama, and the Democrats couldn't wait to destroy the industry and THOUSANDS OF JOBS. Thank goodness for the fracking industry providing inexpensive natural gas.
Almost half of our electricity is generated by COAL. Where do you think the price is going to go?
Didn't you hear? Bernie wants to shut down fracking not just for New York, but the entire nation.
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Didn't you hear? Bernie wants to shut down fracking not just for New York, but the entire nation.
So, what are we going to use to run the country, wind, and solar? We have tremendous energy resources here in the U.S. Oil, natural gas, coal, and we need to allow the use of it. If Hillary wins she will continue the economically destructive policies of the Obama Admin. Sad.
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I'll be taking a bath on the couple thousand shares of $BTU that I once had possession.
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Didn't you hear? Bernie wants to shut down fracking not just for New York, but the entire nation.
The Kingdom must be funding his campaign.
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So, what are we going to use to run the country, wind, and solar? We have tremendous energy resources here in the U.S. Oil, natural gas, coal, and we need to allow the use of it. If Hillary wins she will continue the economically destructive policies of the Obama Admin. Sad.
Not to worry, electric cars will solve the energy crisis.
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Not to worry, electric cars will solve the energy crisis.
COOL! Coal powered cars!
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Not to worry, electric cars will solve the energy crisis.
COOL! Coal powered cars!
Wait. Electric cars take electricity? No, you just plug it into the wall outlet. It's free energy, and probably created by the flutter of butterfly wings, which by the way is a renewable resource, sir.
You conservatives know NOTHING about what is good for our country.
HATERS!
Feel the Bern! Woo hoo!
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Wait. Electric cars take electricity? No, you just plug it into the wall outlet. It's free energy, and probably created by the flutter of butterfly wings, which by the way is a renewable resource, sir.
You conservatives know NOTHING about what is good for our country.
HATERS!
Feel the Bern! Woo hoo!
(https://writerchick.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/brain-dead.jpg)
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If our Federal government had their way, we'd all be taking public transportation, and herded into cattle cars. Then comes the Zyklon B.
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If our Federal government had their way, we'd all be taking public transportation, and herded into cattle cars. Then comes the Zyklon B.
And moved into the inner city urban environment, into high rise apartments, with only two lane roads leading in and out of town because the rest of the right of way is being used for "light rail."
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"The internal combustion engine is our greatest threat." - Al Gore
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"The internal combustion engine is our greatest threat." - Al Gore
Did he really say that, what a doofus.
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"The internal combustion engine is our greatest threat." - Al Gore
Meanwhile he jets around in G IV's, and in caravans of black Chevy Suburbans, but that's OK. I have no problem with that, just don't tell me I need to give up my car and take the bus while you do that.
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Meanwhile he jets around in G IV's, and in caravans of black Chevy Suburbans, but that's OK. I have no problem with that, just don't tell me I need to give up my car and take the bus while you do that.
(https://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/fearmongore.png)
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Didn't you hear? Bernie wants to shut down fracking not just for New York, but the entire nation.
Like most of Bernie's slogans, this one doesn't pass the giggle test of one looks behind the curtain. Apparently he likes the idea of being dependent on Saudi Arabia for energy and loves paying them handsomely so that they can fund terrorists to attack us.
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The scary thing about Bernie is that there are so many supposedly intelligent people who are championing him.
Of course, the same could be said about Hillary.
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Like most of Bernie's slogans, this one doesn't pass the giggle test of one looks behind the curtain. Apparently he likes the idea of being dependent on Saudi Arabia for energy and loves paying them handsomely so that they can fund terrorists to attack us.
If you've heard his speech on this, apparently fracking is responsible for water pollution, earthquakes, and male pattern baldness.
What I find so stunning are the monkeys who are clapping and cheering when he says things like shutting down fracking. Apparently they don't know one of my clients who runs a precision machine tool shop that builds equipment for the fracking industry and employs several hundred people, or anyone in the Wisconsin mining industry that mines sand used in fracking, or the hundreds of thousands of other people who would lose their jobs if this becomes policy.
I heard someone call these people "Ungrateful Americans." The same people who were screaming to break our dependency on Middle East oil now want to shit on the very industry that has helped us accomplish that goal.
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The scary thing about Bernie is that there are so many supposedly intelligent people who are championing him.
Of course, the same could be said about Hillary.
Or Trump, or Cruz. It's all a matter of who's trusted "facts" you want to use and what your core issues are.
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If you've heard his speech on this, apparently fracking is responsible for water pollution, earthquakes, and male pattern baldness.
Ummm... it has caused water pollution an it does cause earthquakes. These are facts. The water contamination can be controlled and the earthquakes are minor and of no consequence. The problem is, there is a right way to frack and there are horrible ways to frack. Unfortunately, without proper regulation and monitoring, the free market will select the horrible way to frack and water supplies will be ruined.
The best solution of course is not an outright ban on fracking, but rather close monitoring and real liabilities for those that engage in it. However in the whipped up hysteria of the sky is literally falling and killing us climate change environment, all things carbon is bad, so the ban is super duper good. Realistically since nobody really wants the pain of life without carbon, the US would like to do what it has historically done for decades and just export it's pollution to lesser countries.
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The scary thing about Bernie is that there are so many supposedly intelligent people who are championing him.
Of course, the same could be said about Hillary.
Hollywood types, and others, were fully supportive of an Obama "benign" dictatorship, to correct, you know, the "disastrous" presidency of W.
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Ummm... it has caused water pollution an it does cause earthquakes. These are facts.
(http://i.imgur.com/dRN7rXT.png)
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Ummm... it has caused water pollution an it does cause earthquakes. These are facts. The water contamination can be controlled and the earthquakes are minor and of no consequence. The problem is, there is a right way to frack and there are horrible ways to frack. Unfortunately, without proper regulation and monitoring, the free market will select the horrible way to frack and water supplies will be ruined.
The best solution of course is not an outright ban on fracking, but rather close monitoring and real liabilities for those that engage in it. However in the whipped up hysteria of the sky is literally falling and killing us climate change environment, all things carbon is bad, so the ban is super duper good. Realistically since nobody really wants the pain of life without carbon, the US would like to do what it has historically done for decades and just export it's pollution to lesser countries.
Prove it. I have yet to see a credible article about water pollution from fracking, though there is plenty from the panty wetters who have an axe to grind.
Fracking happens much, much deeper than any ground water or acquifer.
As for earthquakes, I don't think so. It does cause tremors, but I've heard that those are actually beneficial as they relieve pressure. However, I've just told you my sum knowledge of earthquakes.
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There is no way that fracking causes groundwater pollution.
Fracking, however, does cause heads to explode within the anti-fossil-fuel contingent.
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Fracking is already HYPER regulated by the EPA and state departments. Show me evidence of where fracking has caused water pollution, and if it has where the fracking company hasn't been held accountable?
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The scary thing about Bernie is that there are so many supposedly intelligent people who are championing him.
Of course, the same could be said about Hillary.
And, of course, the same could be said about Trump.
Edited to add: I see Dav8or beat me to it.
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Ummm... it has caused water pollution an it does cause earthquakes. These are facts. The water contamination can be controlled and the earthquakes are minor and of no consequence. The problem is, there is a right way to frack and there are horrible ways to frack. Unfortunately, without proper regulation and monitoring, the free market will select the horrible way to frack and water supplies will be ruined.
The best solution of course is not an outright ban on fracking, but rather close monitoring and real liabilities for those that engage in it. However in the whipped up hysteria of the sky is literally falling and killing us climate change environment, all things carbon is bad, so the ban is super duper good. Realistically since nobody really wants the pain of life without carbon, the US would like to do what it has historically done for decades and just export it's pollution to lesser countries.
This!!
There are hundreds of documented cases where fracking has contaminated drinking water supplies. A few listings I'm familiar with can be found here:
http://files.dep.state.pa.us/OilGas/BOGM/BOGMPortalFiles/OilGasReports/Determination_Letters/Regional_Determination_Letters.pdf
Even with the best equipment, materials and intentions, wells go bad, that is also a fact. It can be greatly minimized with planning but still, cannot be eliminated. That does not mean fracking should be stopped, no matter what Bernie says. Proper regulation and monitoring is necessary.
The biggest issue, IMHO, is that once drinking water aquifers are contaminated, they are ruined for many, many years, they are not easily "fixed".
The earthquake issue is something I believe to be not proven, however there is a huge amount of data that points in that direction.
Gary
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Or Trump, or Cruz. It's all a matter of who's trusted "facts" you want to use and what your core issues are.
Every time the facts damn a progressive policy, a progressive pops up and says, "Oh Yeah?? Well the republicans are bad."
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Prove it. I have yet to see a credible article about water pollution from fracking, though there is plenty from the panty wetters who have an axe to grind.
Fracking happens much, much deeper than any ground water or acquifer.
As for earthquakes, I don't think so. It does cause tremors, but I've heard that those are actually beneficial as they relieve pressure. However, I've just told you my sum knowledge of earthquakes.
Like I said, there are good ways to frack and there are bad ways. The fracking itself likely doesn't cause ground water contamination, it's the waste water created by fracking as a by product that does. Responsible disposal, or recycling is the solution, but when operators want to get rid of it on the cheap, that is when there are problems. The problem was so bad, the State of Pennsylvania requires fracking companies to truck the waste to Ohio for disposal.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-fracking-wastewater-wells-poisoning-ground-beneath-our-feeth/ (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-fracking-wastewater-wells-poisoning-ground-beneath-our-feeth/)
In addition, there are still on going studies about the impact of the actual fracking itself.
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/14522/20150505/chemicals-from-shale-drilling-discovered-in-pennsylvania-tap-water.htm (http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/14522/20150505/chemicals-from-shale-drilling-discovered-in-pennsylvania-tap-water.htm)
On the earthquake thing, tremors are earthquakes. They are just very small and don't cause any damage. Usually 4.0 and less. We get them all the time naturally in California. They are no big deal, but fracking does cause them. The effect of these tremors in geologically sensitive areas like California is not really known or fully understood. For those living in North Dakota, or Pennsylvania, it's no big deal, but maybe alarms people that didn't grow up with this stuff.
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This!!
There are hundreds of documented cases where fracking has contaminated drinking water supplies. A few listings I'm familiar with can be found here:
http://files.dep.state.pa.us/OilGas/BOGM/BOGMPortalFiles/OilGasReports/Determination_Letters/Regional_Determination_Letters.pdf
Even with the best equipment, materials and intentions, wells go bad, that is also a fact. It can be greatly minimized with planning but still, cannot be eliminated. That does not mean fracking should be stopped, no matter what Bernie says. Proper regulation and monitoring is necessary.
The biggest issue, IMHO, is that once drinking water aquifers are contaminated, they are ruined for many, many years, they are not easily "fixed".
The earthquake issue is something I believe to be not proven, however there is a huge amount of data that points in that direction.
Gary
Fracking is already very heavily regulated on the Fed, and State level as you know. What more should we do?
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If you've heard his speech on this, apparently fracking is responsible for water pollution, earthquakes, and male pattern baldness.
What I find so stunning are the monkeys who are clapping and cheering when he says things like shutting down fracking. Apparently they don't know one of my clients who runs a precision machine tool shop that builds equipment for the fracking industry and employs several hundred people, or anyone in the Wisconsin mining industry that mines sand used in fracking, or the hundreds of thousands of other people who would lose their jobs if this becomes policy.
I heard someone call these people "Ungrateful Americans." The same people who were screaming to break our dependency on Middle East oil now want to shit on the very industry that has helped us accomplish that goal.
Even if there are mild negatives to fracking, I think that problem of shipping huge quantities of money to people who want to destroy us is more problematic. If the west wants to deal with the Middle East problem it needs to achieve enough energy independence so that we need to buy the oil less than the middle east needs to sell it. They have taken our money and grown their populations way above what the land will support. They have to import food. We have the food. Let them need that more than we need their oil and all the problems of the middle east becomes much more manageable.
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Even if there are mild negatives to fracking, I think that problem of shipping huge quantities of money to people who want to destroy us is more problematic. If the west wants to deal with the Middle East problem it needs to achieve enough energy independence so that we need to buy the oil less than the middle east needs to sell it. They have taken our money and grown their populations way above what the land will support. They have to import food. We have the food. Let them need that more than we need their oil and all the problems of the middle east becomes much more manageable.
So, how do you feel about a heartless far-right wing radical conservative agreeing with YOU? 😄
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I'd just like to state my position on frakcing. I am very much in favor of it. It is a fantastic technology and more important now than ever. I will say that like all large scale industrial operations, it very much has it's environmental hazards. This is not to say that it's unmanageable, just that it needs a very close watch because private enterprise over and over again has demonstrated that short term profits are often more important than long term environmental consequences in their view.
Like Kristen, I believe that energy independence is of an utmost importance. Fracking helps us achieve this and has changed the game. This does not mean that we should quit work on other forms of energy independence. Wind, solar, geo thermal, bio fuels and nuclear are also very important. I am no green weenie by any stretch, but I think that simply "drill baby, drill" and a heavy reliance on the quickest, cheapest form of energy is very short sighted.
Why not rebuild towards an ideal, rather than just the cheapest, easiest route? Yes, I'm willing to pay more for a better future.
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Wind, and solar are a joke. Oil, Gas, Coal are where we get our real energy. For every unit of wind, and solar we build we must have a back up unit of fossil fuel because sometimes the sun doesn't shine, and the wind doesn't blow. It is politically driven, just like ETHANOL. Another debacle. We have so much domestic energy, we need to use. I agree with Kristin, and others. Let's use our domestic resources, and stop buying oil from countries that hate us.
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More nuclear, please.
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I don't see anyway around having more nuclear if we want to cut our carbon footprint and still keep the economy running. I am all for solar and wind, but we have to be honest with ourselves that they are not the sole solution. I am not convinced by the doomsday climate scenarios and even if they are true, we can't stop it at this point short of causing a human mass extinction event. So it makes sense to hedge our bets and work to reduce the carbon footprint in ways that ensure that our economy keeps functioning. The natural gas that we can get from fracking is a much cleaner source of energy than coal which will cause a decline in coal use though not eliminate it. I am sure we can burn coal cleanly, but the question will be whether the clean coal technology is economically competitive with fracked natural gas.
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Fracking is already very heavily regulated on the Fed, and State level as you know. What more should we do?
Good question!
If you had a foolproof answer, you would probably be the most successful petrochem consultant in the world. Yep we have lot's of standards, regulation and guidance for fracking, much of it developed in the last 20 years. Would argue that there is less regulation than running a refinery however. I see no need to curtail fracking, it's a big boon for us and does help a lot for energy independence. However, if we are going to continue fracking, it would be my preference for greater enforcement of what standards we already have. If we are going to do it, let's do it right the first time. Too many times I've seen corners cut in favor of budgets and schedule. Mostly things work out OK, but when they don't the repercussions are pretty nasty (see BP Deepwater Horizon well - yes I understand that's not a fracking well).
I'm also for the continued research into alternate sources, solar isn't just a pipe dream anymore and bio-fuels are up and coming. Ever notice that quite a few of the oil majors have made investments in those areas? As an example, TOTAL SA owns 60% of SunPower.
Yes coal has taken a big hurt, but that's the free market at work. Coal isn't going away, but it is hard to handle, rather dirty, lots of safety issues and natural gas is just easier, cleaner and cheaper.
I'll also jump on the more nukes bandwagon!
Gary
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Gary, I think coal has taken more of a hurt due to Fed EPA regs, and a Fed desire to shut it down for political (false climate change reasons) than free market, but I agree that the abundance of natural gas is also a part of it.
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More nuclear, please.
Agreed. If we can just get people to understand that nuclear power generation technology has really progressed since the 80's. The new reactor designs are not your granddad's reactor. The risks and the waste is significantly less then the past. Three mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima need not happen. It's like saying the 1965 Ford Fairlane is as good as the automobile can be, or the the IBM XT 286 is the best computer mankind can build.
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The government has sold it's soul to to the cartel and fight real energy independence with everything they have available.
No one is more that way than obama. His devotion to the Arab oil magnates is total.
To break free of them you have to break free of the 'leadership' we have in DC, and that means a revolution at the ballot box.
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The government has sold it's soul to to the cartel and fight real energy independence with everything they have available.
No one is more that way than obama. His devotion to the Arab oil magnates is total.
To break free of them you have to break free of the 'leadership' we have in DC, and that means a revolution at the ballot box.
George Bush was also in bed with the Saudis. Why are we so in love with this fascist regime?
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George Bush was also in bed with the Saudis. Why are we so in love with this fascist regime?
At least Bush didn't bow down to them.
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George Bush was also in bed with the Saudis. Why are we so in love with this fascist regime?
The love affair is and has always been centered around oil. Even as we are less dependent on it the US still has a lot of money invested there and other countries such as China are huge buyers.
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The scary thing about Bernie is that there are so many supposedly intelligent people who are championing him.
Of course, the same could be said about Hillary.
And Cruz.
And Trump.
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I'd just like to state my position on frakcing. I am very much in favor of it. It is a fantastic technology and more important now than ever. I will say that like all large scale industrial operations, it very much has it's environmental hazards. This is not to say that it's unmanageable, just that it needs a very close watch because private enterprise over and over again has demonstrated that short term profits are often more important than long term environmental consequences in their view.
Like Kristen, I believe that energy independence is of an utmost importance. Fracking helps us achieve this and has changed the game. This does not mean that we should quit work on other forms of energy independence. Wind, solar, geo thermal, bio fuels and nuclear are also very important. I am no green weenie by any stretch, but I think that simply "drill baby, drill" and a heavy reliance on the quickest, cheapest form of energy is very short sighted.
Why not rebuild towards an ideal, rather than just the cheapest, easiest route? Yes, I'm willing to pay more for a better future.
Wind, solar, geo thermal and bio fuels are all losers to date. Too expensive, not reliable to consistently power the grid, they need to come a long way to be useful in other than niche areas. Nuclear is getting hammered by cheap natural gas and relatively cheap oil. It's not competing now price wise, too much regulation for one. My take on oil is that fracking is here to stay although it is being curtailed by the Saudi's pumping the way they should have been pumping right along. I think once the oil price hits the magic number, probably around $45 a bbl, it will stabilize there as suppliers will open the fracking spigots. I also think that in the next 10 years or so fracking will become cheaper and that number may lower sans inflation.
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Wind, solar, geo thermal and bio fuels are all losers to date. Too expensive, not reliable to consistently power the grid, they need to come a long way to be useful in other than niche areas. Nuclear is getting hammered by cheap natural gas and relatively cheap oil. It's not competing now price wise, too much regulation for one. My take on oil is that fracking is here to stay although it is being curtailed by the Saudi's pumping the way they should have been pumping right along. I think once the oil price hits the magic number, probably around $45 a bbl, it will stabilize there as suppliers will open the fracking spigots. I also think that in the next 10 years or so fracking will become cheaper and that number may lower sans inflation.
Wind, Solar etc don't have to reliably power the grid 7x24. Every KW they produce is one more KW that doesn't have to be generated by oil and the less oil we use for the grid,the less we have to buy from the Saudis.
It is true that so far, photo-voltaic solar systems have been too expensive and inefficient. They still are, but the technology is improving. The important thing is that we cut the ties to foreign oil.
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Top sources and amounts of U.S. petroleum imports, exports, and net imports, 2015
OPEC countries 31%
Persian Gulf countries 16%
Top five countries
Canada 40%
Saudi Arabia 11%
Venezuela 9%
Mexico 8%
Colombia 4%