PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Little Joe on January 07, 2025, 03:37:02 PM
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I was hoping for a boost after Trump won so handily. But it hasn't happened.
YET.
Hopefully it will happen after he shows results.
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By historical standards metrics such as the S&P 500 P/E ratio, Price to Book Value, Price to Sales Ratio, and Dividend Yield show the market is overvalued, sometimes by several standard deviations above historic means and medians.
This site has a nice collection of graphs that include the metrics I mention, plus several others:
https://www.multpl.com/ (https://www.multpl.com/)
There should not be a lot of head room for further market increases, but a bull market like the last couple years could last a couple more. Or some event could trigger a bear market.
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IIRC 1981 didn’t have immediate market relief after Reagan whacked carter out of the White House.
The bump right after Election Day was nice but the corrupt pig and his staff of cowards, communists, and corruptocrats have been working feverishly to crush any normal bump.
Give it time, I’d say.
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My DJT stock is up to only a 50% loss since I bought it.
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I've been watching this too. I have deeper thoughts about it I'll get into later. And no, Trump isn't a miracle maker.
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By historical standards metrics such as the S&P 500 P/E ratio, Price to Book Value, Price to Sales Ratio, and Dividend Yield show the market is overvalued, sometimes by several standard deviations above historic means and medians.
This site has a nice collection of graphs that include the metrics I mention, plus several others:
https://www.multpl.com/ (https://www.multpl.com/)
There should not be a lot of head room for further market increases, but a bull market like the last couple years could last a couple more. Or some event could trigger a bear market.
“It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” -- Yogi Berra
Looks like the triggering event was "an act of war, to some degree" according to Warren Buffett:
US President Donald Trump is set to impose tariffs on Canada and Mexico, along with additional tariffs on China, from March 4. Breaking his silence on the string of Trump’s tariff announcements, legendary investor Warren Buffet has called them, “an act of war, to some degree.”
In an interview with CBS over the weekend, Buffett said that he’s had a lot of experience with tariffs and according to him, they’re an act of war to some extent. He wet on to say that over a period of time, they are tax on goods. “I mean, the Tooth Fairy doesn’t pay ’em!” Buffet added with a chuckle. He further commented saying, “And then what? You always have to ask that question in economics. You always say, and then what?”
Source: https://www.financialexpress.com/world-news/tooth-fairy-doesnt-pay-them-warren-buffett-breaks-silence-on-trumps-tariffs-calls-them-an-act-of-war/3765118/ (https://www.financialexpress.com/world-news/tooth-fairy-doesnt-pay-them-warren-buffett-breaks-silence-on-trumps-tariffs-calls-them-an-act-of-war/3765118/)
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Let Canada declare war. See what happens next. Pissant little country (large wasteland geographically, small population). 90% of them Iive on the U.S. border.
They chose to side with England. Let them rot.
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It’s just a pissing contest. Everybody needs to calm down.
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Buying opportunities abound.
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Buying opportunities abound.
The kid with the lemonade stand dropped the price of a glass from $20 to $16. Buying opportunity?
I’m not that thirsty.
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The kid with the lemonade stand dropped the price of a glass from $20 to $16. Buying opportunity?
I’m not that thirsty.
I hear ya. On the other hand, due to inflation, the actual real value went from $3 to $2.
Except your wage stayed at $1 so it’s still a problem unless you’re rich enough to have stock market “play” money.
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The kid with the lemonade stand dropped the price of a glass from $20 to $16. Buying opportunity?
I’m not that thirsty.
Idiotic comparison, and once again shows you have no clue to investing or markets.
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When will Canada drop its tariffs on us? 250% on milk that's been there for years? Trump's position is that we'll drop tariffs if they drop them too. Sounds fair. People are only focusing on the most recent 25% across the board.
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When will Canada drop its tariffs on us? 250% on milk that's been there for years? Trump's position is that we'll drop tariffs if they drop them too. Sounds fair. People are only focusing on the most recent 25% across the board.
Exactly. Canada has been raping the US on many products (like Europe) and then the outrage when we do it to them. The goal here is fair trade.
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I hear ya. On the other hand, due to inflation, the actual real value went from $3 to $2.
Except your wage stayed at $1 so it’s still a problem unless you’re rich enough to have stock market “play” money.
I don't have stock market play money. But I do have a portfolio of my investments, and I keep cash available to make purchases when buying opportunities arise.
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The same people whom ever made a Peep while the obama biden bullshit drove inflation to sky high levels, now itch because it’s been 42 days and everything isn’t ‘fixed.’
Such stupidity is typical but annoying as hell.
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With hundreds of billions of corrupt gifts being suddenly yanked back by less criminal people in government, the buying, spending, bribing power of those billions is no longer in play.
The market is going to react at least a little until the new levels are apparent.
Pretending that each indicator operates in a vacuum is as stupid as thinking the corruption of decades should be corrected overnight.
Stupid, but typical of leftists.
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The same people whom ever made a Peep while the obama biden bullshit drove inflation to sky high levels, now itch because it’s been 42 days and everything isn’t ‘fixed.’
Such stupidity is typical but annoying as hell.
I hope you are not saying that I never complained about obama or biden.
Buying opportunities abound.
That doesn't really help me. I am virtually fully invested already and mostly live off dividends or interest, or occasionally asset liquidation. When the value of the stock goes down and I have to liquidate, I don't get that back when the price goes back up.
I'm not complaining (too much). The reason I am able to live off of my investments is due to my past investing, and I am fully aware that stocks go up and down. But I'm just a little concerned that Trump is biting off a bit too much all at once and it might take a long time to recover. It's kind of like when a patient has cancer and needs chemotherapy. In the long run the chemo might prove worth it. On the other hand it could be fatal.
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I have a lot of retirement money invested through my various retirement plans over the years. I'm just trusting that they are doing the right thing with the investments. I get yearly statements showing overall growth, so that's good. I do have the choice of picking the level of risk I'm willing to take on. I'm just happy with the "growth" option.
I also have some money an IRA that I inherited from my mother. I have to take some percentage out every year, but I'm playing the market with the rest since it's "free" money that I really can't take out without paying taxes on it. Just invest and hold. Everything is doing OK overall. Except my DJT stock. That's down 70% since purchase. Thinking of buying some more :)
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I don't have stock market play money. But I do have a portfolio of my investments, and I keep cash available to make purchases when buying opportunities arise.
I call that play money. Unless by play you mean only buying risky stuff just for fun, like I did DJT 😂
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I have a lot of retirement money invested through my various retirement plans over the years. I'm just trusting that they are doing the right thing with the investments. I get yearly statements showing overall growth, so that's good. I do have the choice of picking the level of risk I'm willing to take on. I'm just happy with the "growth" option.
I also have some money an IRA that I inherited from my mother. I have to take some percentage out every year, but I'm playing the market with the rest since it's "free" money that I really can't take out without paying taxes on it. Just invest and hold. Everything is doing OK overall. Except my DJT stock. That's down 70% since purchase. Thinking of buying some more :)
Haha! I made the post below before I read yours.
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Trump has added more clarity to his tariff plan. Stock futures are indicating the market doesn't like what it sees.
Our retirement portfolio is at 57% stocks, 28% money market (earning ~4%), and 15% bonds (earning ~4.2%). Last summer we were near 70% stocks but started selling as the market climbed.
Will be interesting to see how the market goes the rest of the year.
Meanwhile, Turkey and Israel may tussle over Syria and the US is staging a lot of firepower in the Indian ocean and mideast. More than seems needed for just attacks on Yemen.
We are indeed living in interesting times.
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Meanwhile, Turkey and Israel may tussle over Syria and the US is staging a lot of firepower in the Indian ocean and mideast. More than seems needed for just attacks on Yemen.
I don't know how much is needed for just Yemen, but so far, we don't seem to have used enough to stop them. Apparently, we need more than we thought.
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Today's Executive Order on tariffs goes into detail on its justifications and goals and if you'd rather not rely on a news outlet to summarize it you can read it here:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/regulating-imports-with-a-reciprocal-tariff-to-rectify-trade-practices-that-contribute-to-large-and-persistent-annual-united-states-goods-trade-deficits/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/regulating-imports-with-a-reciprocal-tariff-to-rectify-trade-practices-that-contribute-to-large-and-persistent-annual-united-states-goods-trade-deficits/)
The part that seems to provide relief to targeted countries appears to be this, which requires they open their markets:
(b) Should any trading partner retaliate against the United States in response to this action through import duties on U.S. exports or other measures, I may further modify the HTSUS to increase or expand in scope the duties imposed under this order to ensure the efficacy of this action.
(c) Should any trading partner take significant steps to remedy non-reciprocal trade arrangements and align sufficiently with the United States on economic and national security matters, I may further modify the HTSUS to decrease or limit in scope the duties imposed under this order.
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Today's Executive Order on tariffs goes into detail on its justifications and goals and if you'd rather not rely on a news outlet to summarize it you can read it here:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/regulating-imports-with-a-reciprocal-tariff-to-rectify-trade-practices-that-contribute-to-large-and-persistent-annual-united-states-goods-trade-deficits/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/regulating-imports-with-a-reciprocal-tariff-to-rectify-trade-practices-that-contribute-to-large-and-persistent-annual-united-states-goods-trade-deficits/)
The part that seems to provide relief to targeted countries appears to be this, which requires they open their markets:
And what I have difficulty finding is indication of what other countries tariffs are. Oh, it's simple to find the media "reporting" on what increases other countries impose, but not what the tariffs were before Jan 2025
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And what I have difficulty finding is indication of what other countries tariffs are. Oh, it's simple to find the media "reporting" on what increases other countries impose, but not what the tariffs were before Jan 2025
They don't want you to see them, because it justifies Trump's tariffs RETALIATION.
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Today should be interesting.
Some will call it a buying opportunity. But at some point you run out of cash trying to catch falling knives.
The DOW jumps out at - $1,174, but that's only 2.74%. The NASDAQ 100 is down 3.84%.
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I’m one to freak out when the market goes down and I have had to be “talked off the ledge” by our CFA several times, notably the 2020 pandemic crash. Hopefully we will get past this too, real fast, before the midterms. There’s a lot of hate directed toward Trump on X and I’m not feeling good about that, but it could be a lot of paid bot accounts, who the hell knows.
Like I said, people like stability and when you’ve been stuffing your money into stocks your whole life because tax law encouraged it with 401(k)s and IRAs, under the impression that despite ups and downs the market grows “on average” some amount over time, and if you will just hold on and be patient it will all turn out alright in the end, a sudden radical change in policy like talking about doing away with income tax and replacing it with tariffs isn’t seen as just another temporary downturn but a radical reorganizing the entire fiscal infrastructure.
Which feels very threatening to aforementioned stability. But, something had to be done, because we were heading for catastrophe. Trouble is, most people are a) too stupid or misinformed to see that we are headed for catastrophe and b) even if they do, they are too “invested” (pun intended) in their own portfolios to be able to tolerate downturns in its value, especially if they’re on the cusp of retirement, and also being falsely told Trump is “cutting social security”.
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Temporary volatility. Gold is at a new high due to perceived uncertainty and change. Markets hate any changes, even if they're going to be positive in the mid and long term. But, they don't know that yet.
My calculated risk taking says it will turn around.
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Temporary volatility. Gold is at a new high due to perceived uncertainty and change. Markets hate any changes, even if they're going to be positive in the mid and long term. But, they don't know that yet.
My calculated risk taking says it will turn around.
My devil’s advocate response is: This is based on the fact that historically they always have turned around, and that was due to the fact that historically we were a growing economy. Trump promises a booming economy. He needs to deliver, and fast. The voting public will turn against him if he doesn’t, because it’s the wishy washy independents that decide elections and they aren’t known for deep understanding of fiscal matters.
But I hope you are right.
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With the amount of stuff that Black Rock and Vanguard now control, I wonder how much influence they have on the markets ups and downs.
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I don't pay much attention to the market at all. I let the company that has my annuity handle that and the adviser that handles my wife's IRA take care of her money. Neither pot is very large.
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With the amount of stuff that Black Rock and Vanguard now control, I wonder how much influence they have on the markets ups and downs.
I asked Grok that a while back and the answer was something like, influence yes but not total control. I condense that from many paragraphs it gave me.
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Everyone seems to forget the artificial market caused by the combination of printed money and how it was doled out as grift, bribes and outright theft.
It will take a bit for the real market value to be realized.
The current hysteria is as phony as the recent market highs.
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don't overlook the fact that, generally, people sell stocks they think will go down and people buy stocks they think will go up.
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They don't want you to see them, because it justifies Trump's tariffs RETALIATION.
I'm surprised AP published this photo (from Wed speech in the Rose Garden)
eta: https://apnews.com/article/trump-tariffs-liberation-day-2a031b3c16120a5672a6ddd01da09933
(full of snarky editorial commentary rather than being focused on just reporting the facts)
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I was hoping for a boost after Trump won so handily. But it hasn't happened.
YET.
Hopefully it will happen after he shows results.
I'm still waiting for results. So far, it looks to me like Trump has lost his mind.
I hope someone can change my mind.
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I'm still waiting for results. So far, it looks to me like Trump has lost his mind.
I hope someone can change my mind.
I think you have unreasonable expectations.
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Bargains abound, buy, buy, buy
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I think you have unreasonable expectations.
I hope you are right. What would you call reasonable expectations?
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I'm still waiting for results. So far, it looks to me like Trump has lost his mind.
I hope someone can change my mind.
How long has Trump been in office? How long was COVID and the subsequent disastrous response and policies of the last Administration?
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How long has Trump been in office? How long was COVID and the subsequent disastrous response and policies of the last Administration?
I don't get the connection.
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How long does it take to fix a problem that was 4+ years in the making?
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How long does it take to fix a problem that was 4+ years in the making?
That's part of the problem. Trump appears to be trying to fix everything all at once.
If he were to tackle just a few things at a time we might see some results, then go on to the next step.
It's the old "how do you eat an elephant?" question. Answer: One bite at a time. Trump is trying to swallow the whole elephant.
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That's part of the problem. Trump appears to be trying to fix everything all at once.
If he were to tackle just a few things at a time we might see some results, then go on to the next step.
It's the old "how do you eat an elephant?" question. Answer: One bite at a time. Trump is trying to swallow the whole elephant.
Trump has had four years to plan what he could not accomplish the first time around. If he took his time, as you would like, it would give the Democrats too much time to react. He's got them spinning in circles trying to keep up with what he is doing.
Are you not in favor of smaller Government spending less money, working to get to a balanced state to start and then paying down the debt with surpluses? Do you not feel the Government has become bloated with far too many departments? How about there being 4+M credit cards? How about the number of people over the age of 120 being on the SS roles? There is quite a large list of questions I could ask,
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Trump has had four years to plan what he could not accomplish the first time around. If he took his time, as you would like, it would give the Democrats too much time to react. He's got them spinning in circles trying to keep up with what he is doing.
Are you not in favor of smaller Government spending less money, working to get to a balanced state to start and then paying down the debt with surpluses? Do you not feel the Government has become bloated with far too many departments? How about there being 4+M credit cards? How about the number of people over the age of 120 being on the SS roles? There is quite a large list of questions I could ask,
A bloated government isn't reduced in size by increasing taxes, which is what the tariffs are doing.
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That's part of the problem. Trump appears to be trying to fix everything all at once.
If he were to tackle just a few things at a time we might see some results, then go on to the next step.
It's the old "how do you eat an elephant?" question. Answer: One bite at a time. Trump is trying to swallow the whole elephant.
It seems like you want it both ways.
Out of one side of your mouth you are complaining that change hasn’t happened fast enough for you. Then you complain that he is doing things too fast.
Is it that you are one of those that no matter what happens you are going to complain and blame him?
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A bloated government isn't reduced in size by increasing taxes, which is what the tariffs are doing.
The actual, real purpose of the tariffs is national security. Covid revealed that we’ve gotten ourselves into a terrible predicament: Dependent on shipments from foreign countries like China for basics, like medications. We need to bring some of that back home.
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It seems like you want it both ways.
Out of one side of your mouth you are complaining that change hasn’t happened fast enough for you. Then you complain that he is doing things too fast.
Is it that you are one of those that no matter what happens you are going to complain and blame him?
No, I'm saying he isn't getting any positive results because he is trying to do too much all at once.
I agree with (almost) everything he is doing. But that doesn't mean it should all be done at the same time.
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The actual, real purpose of the tariffs is national security. Covid revealed that we’ve gotten ourselves into a terrible predicament: Dependent on shipments from foreign countries like China for basics, like medications. We need to bring some of that back home.
While the EO does list national security and reducing dependency on China as a reasonable objective, it goes further and lists other objectives (or whining) that end up targeting products and material sourced from the rest of the entire fucking world. That crosses the line from "national security" to extreme paranoia, IMHO. I can't think of any non-nuclear war scenario where Canadian (or Mexican) products or material would be deliberately blocked from entering the US.
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While the EO does list national security and reducing dependency on China as a reasonable objective, it goes further and lists other objectives (or whining) that end up targeting products and material sourced from the rest of the entire fucking world. That crosses the line from "national security" to extreme paranoia, IMHO. I can't think of any non-nuclear war scenario where Canadian (or Mexican) products or material would be deliberately blocked from entering the US.
I wouldn’t call it extreme paranoia but I do agree we should have open and free trade with Mexico and Canada, free of tariffs on both sides.
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There is some contradictory messaging going on:
U.S. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and senior trade adviser Peter Navarro both told cable news programs on Thursday the president would not back off, and that the tariff increases were not a negotiation.
Trump then appeared to contradict them, telling reporters, "The tariffs give us great power to negotiate. Always have. I used it very well in the first administration, as you saw, but now we're taking it to a whole new level."
Source: https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/top-news/202504032033RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_KCN3GB0SQ-OUSBS_1 (https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/top-news/202504032033RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_KCN3GB0SQ-OUSBS_1)
Here's Thomas Sowell, a black conservative and economist was asked about Trump's tariffs and Dave Rubin, a conservative commentator, posted it to his Youtube channel:
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There is some contradictory messaging going on:Source: https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/top-news/202504032033RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_KCN3GB0SQ-OUSBS_1 (https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/top-news/202504032033RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_KCN3GB0SQ-OUSBS_1)
Here's Thomas Sowell, a black conservative and economist was asked about Trump's tariffs and Dave Rubin, a conservative commentator, posted it to his Youtube channel:
The Youtube link won’t render for me.
Edit: Now it’s there. Did you do something to fix it? Or was it just me?
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Why do progressives feel the need to defend uneven tariffs negatively affecting
American manufacturing interests?
Just like most democrats, thise whining are supporting policies that hurt working Americans to conform to progressive ideology.
As almost always the case, democrats play on both sides of the fence, while talking out of both sides of their mouths.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/04/03/watch-nancy-pelosi-in-1996-assails-u-s-free-trade-with-china-is-this-reciprocal/
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Dow heads for another 1,000-point drop, futures indicate, after China retaliates to Trump tariffs: Live updates
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(https://media1.tenor.com/m/4oP3PNsXDbEAAAAd/fall.gif)
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Why are the tariffs on china crap lower than the tariffs imposed by china on US products?
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To reduce the whining from the entitlement whores when prices temporarily rise, causing manufacturers to onshore jobs back to the USA.
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No one seemed too upset when a couple trillion dollars cash was dumped on the economy with no place to put it except the stock market. Driving all prices up artificially. Now that we have to do something about the huge 35 trillion debt, money has to flow back out bringing the stock market back to where it should be.
It's not like Trump is doing all the changes himself. He's put together a team. He makes the big decisions, then lets his staff take care of the details and the work. He's had four years to figure out what decisions need to be made. He just let them loose all at once.
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Doesn’t EVERYBODY know that anything bad is always Trump’s fault???
That is the basic democrat commie platform.
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No, I'm saying he isn't getting any positive results because he is trying to do too much all at once.
I agree with (almost) everything he is doing. But that doesn't mean it should all be done at the same time.
Why not? Why wait?
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omg - the market is down (to where it was July 2024).
panic
panic
panic
panic
panic
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When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.
Or if Trump does anything remotely beneficial for the country.
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Here is my heavy criticism of both sides:
The Uniparty, Trump haters, low information public: The tariffs will crash the economy, turn the rest of the world against us and ruin free trade.
My criticism: The U.S. not being self sufficient is a real problem. Globalism was good for a while and in some ways. It brought millions up out of poverty. It resulted in lower consumer prices in America. It allowed an explosion of manufacturing advances due to the vanishingly tiny transportation cost of container shipping, protected by the U.S. by international agreement after WW2.
But the down side was relocating our manufacturing base off our homeland, and in many cases to the other hemisphere, and to an enemy country FFS; the very entity we fought and lost not one but two wars by proxy since WW2. What the F are we thinking? Care to think about where we got our steel to fight WW2? Where were the airplanes built? Now where is that stuff coming from if we need to ramp up to fight another major war? What the hell are we doing putting airplane parts on Boeing passenger planes that are made in China?!
Trump is correctly identifying just how f#cking insane this is. Furthermore, with the crashing world population we will eventually be forced to become more self sufficient. Better to be proactive early.
MAGA: We will bring back manufacturing, a strong economy, and be greater than ever. This is the goal of the tariffs and other policies:
My criticism: You think today’s youth are clambering to work in steel mills you bring back home? Do you think we even have enough youth anymore? The industrial age and post war boom was a historical anomaly never to be repeated. There will be no returning to the nostalgic days of many small businesses on Main Street, textile mills and steel mills employing a huge young male population eager to bust their ass to support a young wife popping out babies. Women don’t want men now and they damn sure don’t want babies so men have no reason to work. You’re not turning that Titanic around with your tariffs.
At best, the economy will improve but it will be a very different reality from the past age of American greatness and with half the country ideologically divorced from even basic American values, steeped in literal communism and eager to sabotage anything good you do. That was not the case in the post war boom, where 90% of Americans were proud patriots.
You’re trying to sell us a pipe dream and it will only give the enemy (the U.S. left) more ammunition when it fails to live up to the stratospheric promises. You need to tone it down a bit. And you need to understand how much you are spooking people with this speed and aggressiveness.
But to the naysayers: FUCK OFF. You seriously have no comprehension of America’s imminent bankruptcy? The first president to come along to actually keep his promise to cut spending and balance the budget, and to demand world acknowledgment of how the United States has been carrying them for 80 years, protecting the seas so Europe can get their shipments, funding NATO so Europe can avoid another war, and allowing tariff imbalances to boost small countries’ economies because we can afford to, because we are so massive and rich, the first president to say, time to put our own citizens first for a change, balance the budget so their social security doesn’t go bankrupt, and you Trump haters and commie left have a problem with that? You’re insane, stupid, evil, or all three.
Taking care of the world was fine post WW2, nothing wrong with our generosity. We helped the world to heal and ushered in global progress. But instead of thanks, we are getting tantrums from these nations as we decide enough is enough. It is exactly like weaning a toddler from the teat. Mommy has had it!
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I suppose now is not the time to mention that I bailed took out my retirement funds that were in stocks. (ok, technically some of it is still in stocks, but not the risky growth stocks) (I bailed December)
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I suppose now is not the time to mention that I bailed took out my retirement funds that were in stocks. (ok, technically some of it is still in stocks, but not the risky growth stocks) (I bailed December)
I also took out enough cash from my IRA in December so that combined with SS I should have enough cash to get by for almost two years. So I'm not necessarily worried about the immediate future, and IF TRUMP IS RIGHT, that should be enough time to see those results I have been talking about.
If he is wrong, then we are all in deep shit. That is quite a gamble. If he is wrong I may have to sell the Bonanza in two years, if there is anyone left that will be able to buy it.
My problem is that I think he is handling a few things wrong. And the last few days in the market are not making me change my mind (DOW down 2,000 points TODAY or around 5% and the other indexes are down even more). It's gonna take a long time before they catch up to where they were, if ever.
I think he is wrong on Canada and Greenland. I'd love to see friendly mergers with both of them, but threats are not going to help anything. I don't mind his tactics with Mexico, China or even the EU.
I think the tariffs can be a useful tool, but I disagree with his blanket tariffs on the whole world. Perhaps Chuck Norris or Jean-Claude Van Damme can walk into a bar full of thugs and take them all on at once, but I don't think that is a wise move for us to take. He should start with top few countries that have excessive tariffs on us. As they get brought into line, go after the next few on the list. When Liliput sees what we do with China, Vietnam and others, and they know they are next they will address the inequities before we have t get tough with them.
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I suppose now is not the time to mention that I bailed took out my retirement funds that were in stocks. (ok, technically some of it is still in stocks, but not the risky growth stocks) (I bailed December)
Perfectly understandable. People have different levels of risk tolerance and are at different stages of life. There are options to minimize risk, such as zero loss, half growth instruments, converting part of your porfolio into a lifelong annuity, etc. Some people have zero risk tolerance and preserving principle is priority. Problem with that is you can lag behind inflation, so you're in reality taking a loss anyway. But we all have to figure out what we're most comfortable with without any of us having a crystal ball.
Edit:
EEEEEK!!! I just checked our account. We lost enough so far today to buy a small house.
Well.... it gained back $1500 in the past 10 minutes of me being logged in. Wonder what I should buy while it's low?
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Nah, we don't need no stinking friends or allies.
ROME — Hours after failing to stave off U.S. tariffs during meetings in Washington last month, the European Union’s trade representative landed in Beijing to a warmer reception. After meetings with Chinese officials, Maros Sefcovic, the trade representative, heralded E.U.-China ties, with both sides signaling their intent to deepen “trade and investment.”
So far, I've lost enough to buy a late model (not new) Cirrus.
I still say Trump has lost his mind.
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Nah, we don't need no stinking friends or allies.
So far, I've lost enough to buy a late model (not new) Cirrus.
I still say Trump has lost his mind.
Well there is news that several countries are already talking about negotiating these tariffs down. But mainstream media won’t tell you that. And when the stock market rallies they will conveniently not talk about that either.
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First lawsuit alleging that Trump's tariffs are unlawful:
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/trump-tariffs-lawsuit-ieepa-simplified-supreme-court-83cd70f9?st=33xgur&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink (https://www.wsj.com/opinion/trump-tariffs-lawsuit-ieepa-simplified-supreme-court-83cd70f9?st=33xgur&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)
Trump’s Tariffs Get a Legal Challenge
A Florida company says the President is violating the Supreme Court’s major questions doctrine. It’s a strong case.
Might the Supreme Court stop President Trump’s huge tariff-tax increase? Here’s hoping, and now comes a lawsuit from a small business that argues his tariffs violate the High Court’s major questions doctrine.
Simplified, a stationery company in Florida, on Thursday challenged the President’s earlier 20% tariffs on China, though its legal arguments also apply to this week’s Liberation Day blitzkrieg. Simplified imports goods from China and says the tariffs have forced it to pay higher costs, resulting in financial harm.
Mr. Trump justified his tariffs on China, as well as this week’s tariffs, under the 1977 International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA). The sanctions law gives the President authority to address an “unusual and extraordinary threat” if he declares a national emergency. Mr. Trump in February deemed fentanyl and other drugs such an emergency.
Simplified isn’t challenging the emergency declaration. Instead, it argues “there is no ‘necessary’ connection between the across-the-board tariff and the opioid problem” and that “IEEPA does not authorize a president to impose tariffs.”
Presidents have used the law to ban imports, freeze assets and impose export controls, but Mr. Trump is the first to impose tariffs under it. Simplified argues that “if the President is permitted to use the IEEPA to bypass the statutory scheme for tariffs, the President will have nearly unlimited authority to commandeer Congress’s power over tariffs.”
Trade laws authorize the President to impose tariffs “only on industries or countries that meet specified criteria, and only under specified conditions, after following specified procedures,” Simplified says. They also “require advance investigations, detailed factual findings, and a close fit between the statutory authority and a tariff’s scope.”
Mr. Trump used IEEPA to bypass such requirements. Simplified argues the tariffs violate the Supreme Court’s major questions doctrine, which requires executive actions that “present a question of ‘vast economic and political significance’” to be “clearly” authorized by Congress.
Simplified cites the Supreme Court’s West Virginia v. EPA (2022) precedent and notes that “When an agency claims to discover in a long-extant statute an unheralded power to regulate ‘a significant portion of the American economy,’ we typically greet its announcement with a measure of skepticism.”
Mr. Trump has arrogated sweeping new powers over trade by invoking a nearly 50-year-old sanctions law. If Mr. Trump gets away with this, Simplified says, a President “would be empowered to declare a national emergency based on some long-running national problem, then impose tariffs purportedly in the name of that emergency.” Think of the next Democratic President imposing tariffs to fight what he’d call a climate “emergency.”
That’s essentially what Mr. Trump did this week by declaring the trade deficit a national emergency. Congress has given the President discrete authority to impose tariffs of up to 15% only for as long as 150 days to remedy “large and serious” trade deficits. Mr. Trump used IEEPA to circumvent those limits.
A court ruling in Simplified’s case would apply only to the Chinese tariffs, but his tariffs this week are legally suspect for the same reasons. Let’s hope the rest of the business world finds the courage to challenge this week’s tariff barrage on similar grounds.
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Meanwhile, WSJ writer James Freeman wonders if Trump really intends to negotiate lower trade barriers when countries agree to his terms:
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/will-trump-take-yes-for-an-answer-e36a60f9?mod=hp_opin_pos_5#cxrecs_s (https://www.wsj.com/opinion/will-trump-take-yes-for-an-answer-e36a60f9?mod=hp_opin_pos_5#cxrecs_s)
Will Trump Take Yes for an Answer?
Quick rewards for those who drop trade barriers will encourage others to do the same.
Ever since President Donald Trump announced huge tax increases on international commerce this week, investors have rationally responded by marking down the value of businesses. That’s because firms are suddenly likely to have lower earnings in the future. Of course consumers will pay for tariffs too in the form of higher prices. Fortunately a number of world leaders seem ready to offer Mr. Trump a beautiful way out of his trade fracas.
It’s often hard to tell exactly what the president’s goal is—and perhaps he likes it that way—but if the objective is simply to collect more revenue for the U.S. government then the market and consumer pain will persist for a long time. On the other hand, if the goal is to force foreign governments to allow their people to enjoy American products, then he can score some quick wins now and create the incentive for more market-opening victories in the future.
He can and he must. The Journal’s Jasmine Li reports:
Sen. Ted Cruz (R., Texas) said that he hopes President Trump’s tariffs work as leverage to get other countries to quickly lower trade barriers, which could spark an economic boom. But he sees big risks for jobs and inflation.
“This is throwing a long ball deep into the end zone,” he said on his Verdict podcast.
“If we’re in a scenario 30 days from now, 60 days from now, 90 days from now, with massive American tariffs and massive tariffs on American goods and every other country on earth, that is a terrible outcome,” he said.
In that scenario, “This is the biggest tax increase we have seen in a long, long time,” he said.
Fact check: True.
Erica York and Alex Durante offer their assessment for the Tax Foundation:
The newly announced universal Trump tariffs on April 2 will raise $1.5 trillion in revenue over the next decade and shrink US GDP by 0.4 percent. The April 2 escalation comes in addition to previously announced tariffs, which will raise $1.3 [trillion] in revenue over the next decade and shrink US GDP by 0.3 percent. Altogether, the Trump tariffs will raise nearly $2.9 trillion in revenue over the next decade and reduce US GDP by 0.7 percent, all before foreign retaliation.
The Trump tariffs will reduce after-tax income by an average of 1.9 percent and amount to an average tax increase of more than $1,900 per US household in 2025.
China, Canada, and the European Union have announced or imposed retaliatory tariffs. In 2025, the Trump tariffs will increase federal tax revenues by $258.4 billion, or 0.85 percent of GDP, making the tariffs the largest tax hike since 1982. The Trump tariffs are larger than the tax increases enacted under Presidents George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama.
On Wednesday this column noted the beautiful response to the White House from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who called for an immediate end to his country’s tariffs on U.S. goods. Mr. Trump should reciprocate and take our own tariffs to zero on goods from Israel—a win for U.S. consumers and a strong incentive for other countries to allow their consumers to enjoy easier, cheaper access to U.S. goods. Media reports suggest that a number of foreign leaders are very eager to create the art of a deal—or at least something that won’t crush their economies.
Reuters notes:
U.S. trading partners have few good options in their trade war with President Donald Trump, other than to sue for peace.
Hit by 10%-50% tariffs on their exports to the world’s dominant economic superpower, most lack the firepower to hit back or the political will to slug it out, say government officials, economists and trade experts.
This is why the vast majority of trading partners did not immediately retaliate and indicated a readiness to negotiate a face-saving compromise with Trump. Even among those that have taken counter measures, the door was left ajar to talks.
From China, which on Friday slapped extra tariffs of 34% on all U.S. goods, to Canada, which has taken limited retaliation, nations are tipped to come to the negotiating table sooner or later, given U.S. consumption is so important globally — two-thirds bigger than EU consumption, according to World Bank data.
The Financial Times reports:
Donald Trump’s decision to impose sweeping tariffs on US trade partners — including close security allies — has triggered a rush to find ways of placating Washington in the brief window before the radical measures take effect. The US president’s executive order on the tariffs extended an olive branch to countries taking “significant steps” to remedy trade surpluses with the US and address tax, regulatory and licensing practices deemed unfair.
Karishma Mehrotra reports for the Washington Post from New Delhi:
The pressure from Washington has reignited a long-standing debate in India over whether to open up its heavily protectionist economy… India has struggled to attract manufacturers looking to pivot away from China, partly because of high tariffs on required components. And other peer nations, including Malaysia, the Philippines and Brazil, could cut into any potential competitive edge.
The Indian government has been trying to satisfy the White House as the Post reports:
India unveiled a series of preemptive goodwill measures, reducing tariffs on some cars, motorcycles, electronics, solar components, chemicals and alcohol. It also proposed eliminating what is referred to as the “Google tax” on online advertisements…
India has long been one of the world’s most protectionist countries, only opening up its economy in the 1990s to avert a financial crisis. In 2023, India’s average tariff (not accounting for trade deals) stood at 17 percent, nearly six times the average U.S. rate, according to the World Trade Organization…
For some economists, the U.S. pressure represents a welcome and overdue catalyst for domestic reform.
“We have to reduce tariffs,” [Shiv Nadar University economics professor Rajat Kathuria] said. “This is an opportunity for India to do something that it always wants to do, and has wanted to do, but is politically difficult to do. ”
The Modi government has signaled it is inching in this direction. In March, the Commerce Ministry urged Indian businesses to shed their “protectionist mindset.”
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Meanwhile...
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7969.0;attach=4684)
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Meanwhile...
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7969.0;attach=4684)
Stupid question. What’s a yield?
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Stupid people (liberals) are functionally illiterate when the subject is economics. I’m not sure if that is intentional, or just fallout from all their other stupid-ness.
Try explaining anything more complicated than zero sum to a liberal and you might as well be reciting the periodic table in Latin, or Greek.
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Stupid question. What’s a yield?
10 year yield is the interest rate on 10 year bonds.
But I don't know if this effects the $36+trillion of debt that is already out there, or only new debt.
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The Dow is back down to where it was a year ago. Long term, it will be back up.
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10 year yield is the interest rate on 10 year bonds.
But I don't know if this effects the $36+trillion of debt that is already out there, or only new debt.
I asked Grok, and then I said, oh, BONDS. Why didn’t he say so? I know what a bond is. He just said “10 year yield”. I’m literal. Probably autistically so. Say what you mean!
It affects the debt that’s already there (the servicing, not the principle) because as the 10 year BONDS mature (of which there are some every year) the government rolls them over into new bonds and the new ones having a lower interest rate means the annual interest to service that debt goes down, to the tune of billions per year.
Yeah, this is big.
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Stupid people, (democrats) are too mentally disturbed to look at anything but who are they supposed to hate today, and should they hate someone else tomorrow,
Their cognitive functions resemble a drunk monkey on crack with half a banana.
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Stupid people, (democrats) are too mentally disturbed to look at anything but who are they supposed to hate today, and should they hate someone else tomorrow,
Their cognitive functions resemble a drunk monkey on crack with half a banana.
I don’t see the need to insult monkeys.
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I don’t see the need to insult monkeys.
Case in point:
https://www.offthepress.com/flashback-nancy-pelosi-was-for-tariffs-before-she-was-against-them/
Assholes don’t even bother to see what they hated last time, before hating something this time.
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Case in point:
https://www.offthepress.com/flashback-nancy-pelosi-was-for-tariffs-before-she-was-against-them/
Assholes don’t even bother to see what they hated last time, before hating something this time.
I saw that, almost posted it myself!
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An excellent perspective, especially remarks by Vice President Vance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEzb89YYNjE
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(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7969.0;attach=4686)
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Randy,
That chart lies.
It shows a closing Dow value of 42,225.32.
That was its closing value on April 2.
April 2nd was Trump's Liberation day. He announced his global tariff values after the markets closed.
The chart deliberately chops off the steep two-day decline that followed.
The Dow closed today, the 4th, at 38314.86.
A nearly 10% drop in 2 days is a big deal. Over long periods of time the average yearly gain on the Dow is 10% or less.
But the real wailing comes from those who realize this could be just the start because the market is historically overvalued and could lose as much as half its value to bring it back in line with long term average EPS valuations. The doubling time for the market is about 7.2 years - a long wait to get back to your old net worth.
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Stupid question. What’s a yield?
A Yield is the rate of return on an ANNUAL basis, typically for a one year term of bonds, or stocks. An Internal Rate of Return (IRR) is for multiple years, and multiple year investments such as for stocks, bonds, investment real estate, etc.
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(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7969.0;attach=4686)
That's not a statistic, or a lie. It is a "damn lie".
The market closed at $38,314, NOT $45k. That is another (approx) 10% and that is a big Fing deal. Worse than anything Obama or Biden did and that was including the results of the Covid scam.
edit: I see that Jim already addressed this.
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Randy,
That chart lies.
It shows a closing Dow value of 42,225.32.
That was its closing value on April 2.
April 2nd was Trump's Liberation day. He announced his global tariff values after the markets closed.
The chart deliberately chops off the steep two-day decline that followed.
The Dow closed today, the 4th, at 38314.86.
A nearly 10% drop in 2 days is a big deal. Over long periods of time the average yearly gain on the Dow is 10% or less.
But the real wailing comes from those who realize this could be just the start because the market is historically overvalued and could lose as much as half its value to bring it back in line with long term average EPS valuations. The doubling time for the market is about 7.2 years - a long wait to get back to your old net worth.
it would more truthful to have the chart start from 30 or 50 or 100 years ago.
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it would more truthful to have the chart start from 30 or 50 or 100 years ago.
Or for the Y axis to start at zero. But for some reason, nobody does that.
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Randy,
That chart lies.
It shows a closing Dow value of 42,225.32.
That was its closing value on April 2.
April 2nd was Trump's Liberation day. He announced his global tariff values after the markets closed.
The chart deliberately chops off the steep two-day decline that followed.
The Dow closed today, the 4th, at 38314.86.
A nearly 10% drop in 2 days is a big deal. Over long periods of time the average yearly gain on the Dow is 10% or less.
But the real wailing comes from those who realize this could be just the start because the market is historically overvalued and could lose as much as half its value to bring it back in line with long term average EPS valuations. The doubling time for the market is about 7.2 years - a long wait to get back to your old net worth.
BINGO! The market is bullshit, and all our wealth in it is illusory and we all have known it for a while now. Don’t claim you didn’t! We all knew a correction was needed and now that Trump is forcing it we’re all crying like toddlers when mommy takes away our candy.
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BINGO! The market is bullshit, and all our wealth in it is illusory and we all have known it for a while now. Don’t claim you didn’t! We all knew a correction was needed and now that Trump is forcing it we’re all crying like toddlers when mommy takes away our candy.
I think Jim is projecting his desire for President Trump to fail so he can feel superior. The leftist in him struggles to fit his longing for a communist utopia with the reality of the real world.
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Ten percent is called a correction and should not elicit panic. How many of you actually hold individual portfolios and manage them yourself? How much of this has been driven by Black Rock and Vanguard? Between 7/24/23 and 10/23/2023 the DOW dropped from $35,459 to $32,417 a drop of 8.6%. Between 8/8/2022 and 8/26/22 it dropped from $33,761 to $28,725 a drop of 14.9%. I'm not going to go searching, but I wonder how many posts Jim or Little Joe authored in abject horror at those drops.
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Ten percent is called a correction and should not elicit panic. How many of you actually hold individual portfolios and manage them yourself? How much of this has been driven by Black Rock and Vanguard? Between 7/24/23 and 10/23/2023 the DOW dropped from $35,459 to $32,417 a drop of 8.6%. Between 8/8/2022 and 8/26/22 it dropped from $33,761 to $28,725 a drop of 14.9%. I'm not going to go searching, but I wonder how many posts Jim or Little Joe authored in abject horror at those drops.
There is a difference between a correction and a reaction to sudden, sweeping and damaging policies by the richest and most powerful nation in the world.
What we are seeing now is not a correction.
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There is a difference between a correction and a reaction to sudden, sweeping and damaging policies by the richest and most powerful nation in the world.
What we are seeing now is not a correction.
Damaging policies in your estimation because you are not interested in watching how it plays out. You've predetermined the outcome rather than seeing what happens. I see you have bo response to the two examples I posted and whether you ro Jim posted your horror to those two events.
What is your response the various videos showing Pelosi and Schumer touting tariffs?
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I feel confident that jim is obsessed with hating President Trump but he tries to hide it.
He occasionally slips up and his real personality bleeds out in his leftist media sound bite posts. His professed libertarianism seems to be just a scam, hiding his true hard leftism.
Joe just seems to want to whine like a ten year old who had his playstation taken away for not doing his schoolwork.
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Here are a couple of our accounts over the past 12 months. I had to use ones that did not have a big bump from an inheritance or drop from payments to our construction contractor and whatnot. These two we left alone. The "today" is April 5 but the balance of course is yesterday's close, so it is one year lookback. We are still higher than one year ago and one of them is roughly equal to where we were last August. Question: Did we panic last August?
I will feel fine if next week things calm down. If they continue crashing below April 2024 I might have to ask my doctor for some Xanax.
I realize these accounts do NOT represent the DOW or the market overall, but they are what I care about.
Doesn't anybody care about the fact that crude is down and gas prices as well as transportation cost for everything you buy is going to come down? Christ people, have some perspective, and patience. And I'm including myself in that admonition.
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There is a difference between a correction and a reaction to sudden, sweeping and damaging policies by the richest and most powerful nation in the world.
What we are seeing now is not a correction.
Is too. Doesn't matter what triggered it. We've been needing a correction for a long time.
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I feel confident that jim is obsessed with hating President Trump but he tries to hide it.
He occasionally slips up and his real personality bleeds out in his leftist media sound bite posts. His professed libertarianism seems to be just a scam, hiding his true hard leftism.
Joe just seems to want to whine like a ten year old who had his playstation taken away for not doing his schoolwork.
But if they voted for Trump they're okay in my book. Unless they get disgusted and start voting Democrat and against whatever Trump is doing. He is still far, far, far, FAR better than the alternative. Because the alternative was continued rot as we disintegrate.
Truth: We are in a MESS decades in the making. We are headed for complete disaster. Our options were: Trump and short term pain as he breaks down the whole system to rebuild something functional, or, maintain the course under the Uniparty (Harris) and go straight off the cliff.
I realize we are betting that Trump knows what he's doing and there is a non-zero chance that a) he doesn't, or b) he does but gets so undermined by all his enemies that he fails. Life is risky. Suck it up and face it. We took the only rational choice we had to try to save our nation. Now we need to put our support behind him and have some faith. What else do you want to do, impeach him and remove him from office? And install some Unipartiest who won't rock the boat but just let it hit the iceberg and sink? Is that the plan now?
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It's the difference between short term and long term thinking. Long term we're headed for disaster. The fix causes some short term pain. Too often corporate CEOs destroy their company to look good on their quarterly report. But if you're willing to have a couple bad quarters, and if the board of directors / shareholders are willing to keep the CEO on board, then the company emerges much stronger and everyone in the company wins. Trump and Musk are taking a long term view of the country, knowing that in the short term the will take a huge amount of flak not only from the usual people who hate Trump, but from everyone who takes a short term view of the economy. I'm willing to wait and see, trust that they know what they are doing, and celebrate a more powerful, stable country. I'm not planning to cash out of the market, and I've always been in it for the long term.
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Damaging policies in your estimation because you are not interested in watching how it plays out. You've predetermined the outcome rather than seeing what happens.
Of course I am interested in how it turns out. I fervently hope Trump is right and I'm wrong. If by the mid-terms things turn around and we finally get that "red wave" I will be the first to admit I was wrong and give Trump credit and admit that all of you were right too.
I just don't think that will be the case.
I see you have bo response to the two examples I posted and whether you ro Jim posted your horror to those two events.
What is your response the various videos showing Pelosi and Schumer touting tariffs?
First, I rarely watch videos. But I did watch a few minutes of one of them and I saw no relevance. If I remember,they were touting targeted tariffs against China to counter their tariffs and other unfair trade practices on us. Personally, I think that is a perfectly fine way to use Tariffs. I was all for it when Trump was doing that. I'm not sure though, are you saying I should be for or against all tariffs on the basis of Pelosi or Schumer being for some of them? I can't believe you would actually say that though.
I don't think putting blanket tariffs on the entire world is the same thing, nor do I think it is productive.
And my biggest gripe against Trump is the way he is making an enemy of Canada. That is insane. Go after Mexico, China, India etc and I am fine.
I'm going to drop out of this conversation for a while to see how things play out. It makes no sense to voice opinions of what I think the future holds and be told that is what I WANT to happen.
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I'm going to drop out of this conversation for a while to see how things play out.
Wash, rinse, repeat.....................
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It's the difference between short term and long term thinking. Long term we're headed for disaster. The fix causes some short term pain. Too often corporate CEOs destroy their company to look good on their quarterly report. But if you're willing to have a couple bad quarters, and if the board of directors / shareholders are willing to keep the CEO on board, then the company emerges much stronger and everyone in the company wins. Trump and Musk are taking a long term view of the country, knowing that in the short term the will take a huge amount of flak not only from the usual people who hate Trump, but from everyone who takes a short term view of the economy. I'm willing to wait and see, trust that they know what they are doing, and celebrate a more powerful, stable country. I'm not planning to cash out of the market, and I've always been in it for the long term.
I’m reading a book right now called “Leaders Eat Last” by Simon Sinek. It talks about exactly that, in the context of a good CEO who looks long term recognizes that he must care for the people in the company like they are family: do what’s in the company’s and hence all its employees’ best long term interest. A company can’t thrive without its employees being loyal, feeling included and working as a team having each other’s backs.
He gives an example, well several, but it boils down to: Hire carefully. Gatekeep who you hire for talent and competence and “fit” with the team. Then, hold on to them no matter what. In bad times, instead of laying off, give an across the board pay cut including the CEO, and the team will feel secure in their employment even if things are tight for a while. In the one example, everybody go back pay when the bad time ended. Who wouldn’t rather work for a company like that and give it their all, rather than fear being laid off and suffer all the mistrust and hostility of company politics?
I don’t know but I have to think Musk is like this. Him firing a ton of Twitter employees is him getting rid of dead weight. The ones he keep he must be loyal to. I assume the same with all his companies, I don’t know but when I saw the room cheer when SpaceX splashed down with the astronauts it sure looked like they were all bought into teamwork as a family.
Musk and Trump might be trying to get the government like that but I do have reservations. Maybe the biggest problem is that we change leaders every four years. There’s limited incentive to be loyal to a particular one.
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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/04/trumps-tariffs-are-working-here-are-all-countries/
President Trump’s tariffs are already having an impact.
Earlier this week, Trump announced a sweeping new trade policy that included a universal 10 percent tariff on all imports into the United States.
In addition to this baseline measure, the administration introduced a system of reciprocal tariffs targeting countries with significant trade surpluses over the U.S.
The tariffs vary in severity, with higher rates imposed on nations deemed to have particularly unbalanced trade relationships or who refuse to buy American goods.
However, many countries are already offering the U.S. concessions:
Vietnam — Following the announcement of a nearly 50 percent tariff on their imports, Vietnam has immediately entered negotiations with the White House.
President Trump reported a “very productive call” with Vietnam’s Communist Party General Secretary To Lam, during which Lam expressed a willingness to reduce tariffs to zero contingent on the signing of a free trade agreement.
India — India has initiated discussions with the U.S. to address the trade barriers.
Officials are reportedly exploring the possibility of reducing or eliminating tariffs on certain U.S. imports and increasing purchases of American goods.
Israel — Israel wants to negotiate terms and potentially secure exemptions or reductions and has already agreed to scrap all its tariffs on U.S. imports.
Prime Minister Netanyahu will further discuss the issue with Trump on Monday.
European Union (27 countries) — The EU has proposed lowering car tariffs and increasing purchases of U.S. energy and military equipment in an effort to negotiate exemptions and reductions.
Trump has long complained about the EU’s unwilligness to buy American cars.
Japan — Japan has signaled a willingness to negotiate by pledging increased imports of U.S. liquefied natural gas (LNG) and investments in artificial intelligence.
South Korea — South Korea is looking at possible trade concessions that would involve leveraging strategic sectors like semiconductors to reach a favorable agreement.
Thailand — Facing the prospect of billions in losses, the Thai government is planning to increase imports from the U.S. and reduce tariffs on American products to address the trade imbalance.
—
Many other countries are also readying trade delegations and concessions to try and win exemptions.
Trump, meanwhile, says that “every country” has called him asking to renegotiate their trade arrangements.
“Every country has called us, that’s the beauty of what we do, we’ve put ourselves in the driving seat,” she said.
”If we’d asked most of these countries to do us a favour, they’d have said no, now they’ll do almost anything for us… the tariffs give us great power to negotiate”.
To add Premier Ford in Canada has already signaled they would like to negotiate as well.
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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/04/trumps-tariffs-are-working-here-are-all-countries/
To add Premier Ford in Canada has already signaled they would like to negotiate as well.
I suppose CNN and MSNBC are all reporting all of this?
I hope the Vietnam one goes well. Any item of clothing I get that is made in Vietnam is way better than the made in China stuff. Same with Cambodia, Pakistan (I’m wearing Pakistan socks right now), Mexico and Thailand. Once in a while I’ll get a decent Made in China thing, but most of their stuff sucks. Trump is right to move away from China. Except I don’t want to drive them into the arms of Russia.
Speaking of which we need to befriend Russia. There are tons of economic opportunities there. What's with the sudden hatred of Russia by the left? Just because Trump is able to have a friendly conversation with Putin. The commie left hates commie Russia. Makes no sense. The cognitive dissonance and stupidity is mind boggling.
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BINGO! The market is bullshit, and all our wealth in it is illusory and we all have known it for a while now. Don’t claim you didn’t! We all knew a correction was needed and now that Trump is forcing it we’re all crying like toddlers when mommy takes away our candy.
You must let the economy and markets have down cycles. It will be much, much worse if you don't have corrections. Think 1929 worse.
The bedwetters here are economicly challenged, and hoping for Trump and America to FAIL
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You must let the economy and markets have down cycles. It will be much, much worse if you don't have corrections. Think 1929 worse.
The bedwetters here are economicly challenged, and hoping for Trump and America to FAIL
It's like a pressure relief valve.
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Well well well. Looks like the people are approving of Trump’s tariffs. Maybe the stupidity is less than I thought. Or maybe more, who the hell knows.
https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1908565866125648048
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14573081/trump-tariffs-americans-deliver-verdict-trade-poll.html
Americans deliver shock verdict on Trump's controversial new tariffs
President Donald Trump is more popular now than before he sent the global markets into a frenzy by enacting sweeping new tariffs.
An exclusive DailyMail.com/J.L. Partners survey of over 1,000 registered voters conducted from March 31 to April 3 found that the Republican remains largely popular in the U.S.
The poll found that Trump's approval rating rose to 53 percent, a 4-point increase over last week when it was 49 percent.
Trump's rising approval rating is surprising given the flak the White House has received over the tariff order signed Wednesday.
It is up by 13 points since March 7 among those aged 18 to 29.
Trump also saw a six-point increase in favorability among Democrats and independents, according to the survey.
The Republican's support among black voters skyrocketed 17 points since last week, the poll found.
When it comes to Trump's universal 10 percent tariff on all goods coming in from other countries, more Americans support the policy than oppose it.
One in three respondents (36 percent) support Trump's 10 percent minimum tariff, the poll found.
Only 28 percent are opposed to the policy, while the remaining 36 percent were unsure.
Respondents also supported, by a slim margin, increasing tariffs on all goods from all foreign countries.
The survey found 39 percent of registered voters support increasing tariffs on all goods while 37 percent oppose it. The remainder, 24 percent, were unsure.
Voters' support for sweeping tariffs on China and the European Union has gone up since last month.
They also broadly support tariffs that impact specific sectors like aircraft, plastics, precious metals, iron and steel.
Although the survey found support for the new economic policy, the announcement may come at a steep price for U.S. citizens.
Advancing American Freedom, a conservative advocacy group, estimates that the Trump tariffs will cost American families more than $3,500 a year.
The analysis found that major purchases such as a new home or car could cost families $7,000 more.
Whether the tariffs will stick is seemingly still up for debate.
Trump posted on Truth Social Friday afternoon announcing negotiations with Vietnam to cut the tariffs on the Asian country to zero, indicating he is open to making deals.
'Just had a very productive call with To Lam, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, who told me that Vietnam wants to cut their tariffs down to zero if they are able to make an agreement with the U.S.,' Trump wrote
'I thanked him on behalf of our country, and said I look forward to a meeting in the near future,' he continued.
China, however, retaliated against the U.S. on Friday by imposing 34 percent tariffz on goods coming from the U.S.
Officials in Beijing have slammed the move by Trump.
'This practice of the U.S. is not in line with international trade rules, seriously undermines China’s legitimate rights and interests, and is a typical unilateral bullying practice,' the Chinese Finance Ministry said in a statement.
Responding, Trump posted on social media slamming China for making the wrong decision.
'China played it wrong, they panicked - the one thing they cannot afford to do!' Trump wrote.
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Unfortunately there might be lower ratings from the stock market PANIC!!!
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This is the problem with the libertarian free trade absolutist position, and I say that as a libertarian.
https://x.com/CynicalPublius/status/1908597559402307916
People who are truly intelligent know when they were wrong about something. Usually when smart people are wrong, it’s because they have flawed assumptions.
I was once a staunch advocate of the system we called “free trade.” (Even though it was really not free trade, so for purposes of this post I’ll call the restrictive reality “globalist free trade.") My support for globalist free trade was based on the following four assumptions:
1. Globalist free trade will result in fair trade policies honored by all nations.
2. Countries like China, Myanmar and Vietnam will abandon their tyrannical governments and oppressive social conventions once globalist free trade is in place, and will join the world of free, peaceful, democratic societies.
3. Globalist free trade will make unskilled workers in poor countries into a robust middle class.
4. US manufacturing jobs will leave, but all American citizens will then have robust opportunities in the knowledge economy that will raise the standards of living for all.
These four assumptions underpinned all support for globalist free trade.
All four of these assumptions were badly, badly wrong. They were wildly off the mark.
Today, our intelligentsia are unable to do what I did (admit my assumptions were wrong) and instead cling to the same Chamber of Commerce 1990s rhetoric that brought us to this hellscape.
The mark of true intelligence is the ability to admit you were wrong. Our self-appointed “elites” are showing us in the tariffs argument just how unintelligent they actually are.
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For those unable to understand the concept of four D chess, often things are happening that have huge impact, but are missed in the heat of poor journalism, lousy partisanship, and ugly stupid liberalism.
communist democrat senator chris coons praised the new tariffs on ‘dirty’ chinese steel.
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2025/04/05/coons-tariffs-on-dirty-steel-from-china-and-russia-would-level-playing-field/
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Yesterday there were dozens of "Hands Off" rallies across the country. They are protesting: “With Trump and congressional Republicans doubling down on their agenda to gut essential services, everyday Americans are sending a clear message: Take your hands off our healthcare, our Social Security, our civil rights, our freedom, and our education,” the organizers of the “Hands Off!” rallies said in a statement, according to CBS News." None of which Trump or republicans are doing. Yet they are bleating the MSM crazy panic trying to convince everyone that the world is coming to an end. Trump has been in office a little over a month. Sheesh.
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Yesterday there were dozens of "Hands Off" rallies across the country. They are protesting: “With Trump and congressional Republicans doubling down on their agenda to gut essential services, everyday Americans are sending a clear message: Take your hands off our healthcare, our Social Security, our civil rights, our freedom, and our education,” the organizers of the “Hands Off!” rallies said in a statement, according to CBS News." None of which Trump or republicans are doing. Yet they are bleating the MSM crazy panic trying to convince everyone that the world is coming to an end. Trump has been in office a little over a month. Sheesh.
They are so stupid. My lefty brother attended one of those and bragged that they were peaceful and didn't burn anything down.
This time, bro. You want a medal?
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They are so stupid. My lefty brother attended one of those and bragged that they were peaceful and didn't burn anything down.
This time, bro. You want a medal?
He needs his participation trophy to show he is ‘down’ with the struggle…
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He needs his participation trophy to show he is ‘down’ with the struggle…
Probably being paid by some Soros funded, or our tax dollar funded, organization to “save democracy”. Fucking commies.
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It's good that Trump is doing all this repair work early in his term. That way all the nutbags get out right away and will lose their effectiveness as time goes on. By the midterm elections, their sponsors will run out of money and the "protesters" will be tired of screaming into the wind.
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https://babylonbee.com/news/financial-advisor-announces-its-time-to-panic-urges-clients-to-make-hasty-emotional-decisions
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50 countries, including several big players, have contacted the Trump Administration to NEGOTIATE NEW TRADE DEALS. Which is exactly the goal of this entire exercise.
I don't know how to post links with my phone, but it's out there on the non Commie sources.
But, bedwetters, keep it up! You may want to get a life preserver!
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Stock Futures markets have re-opened and at this instant showing about 4% to 5% down.
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Stock Futures markets have re-opened and at this instant showing about 4% to 5% down.
People making money
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Stock Futures markets have re-opened and at this instant showing about 4% to 5% down.
Dow futures fall 1,500 points Sunday as Trump tariff market collapse worsens
At this point, I'm almost tempted to take some of that cash I pulled out in December and buy something.
But I'm chicken.
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At this point, I'm almost tempted to take some of that cash I pulled out in December and buy something.
But I'm chicken.
We have some cash in our accounts and are debating whether to put some of that into buying back into the market at this point, but the question is, what? I was thinking oil drilling companies?
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We have some cash in our accounts and are debating whether to put some of that into buying back into the market at this point, but the question is, what? I was thinking oil drilling companies?
Oil futures are down, too. Seems the market thinks demand for oil will decrease worldwide. Drilling would presumably have to be cut back.
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50 countries, including several big players, have contacted the Trump Administration to NEGOTIATE NEW TRADE DEALS. Which is exactly the goal of this entire exercise.
I don't know how to post links with my phone, but it's out there on the non Commie sources.
But, bedwetters, keep it up! You may want to get a life preserver!
It would be great if that were Trump's goal, since it is allegedly working.
However, Trump has claimed several goals, not all of which can be entirely met simultaneously. I recall the following:
(1) Bring manufacturing back to the states. (Re-shore)
(2) Use tariff income to lower or eliminate income taxes. (Tax reduction)
(3) Reduce or eliminate bilateral trade barriers with countries that currently impede US exports. (Free trade)
Free trade goal conflicts with tax reduction goal and impairs re-shoring goal. And long term the tax reductions from tariffs conflicts with re-shoring as manufacturing relocates back home. Income taxes would likely creep up as tariff income drops as imports drop.
Free trade seems to be the quickest least painful goal to accomplish, which is probably why several people here and elsewhere (such as editorials on the WSJ and recently Elon Musk) believe or hope it is Trump's priority goal.
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As hard as it is for someone suffering myopic tds, there are many potential benefits from the strategy employed by the President. The main goal is what is best for the USA.
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Mortgage interest rates are coming down.
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Mortgage interest rates are coming down.
Great! My son is building a house so I’ll have to tell him to lock in a rate.
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He talks about a pencil, but here’s the thing: 1000 years ago or even just 500 years ago, the great majority of humanity used resources within a day’s horse ride from their village to craft everything in their lives. Trade items from afar were available only to the rich elite. 1000 years ago you had silk and you had spices from distant lands and that was about it for “globalism”.
The industrial revolution and explosion in technological development were enabled by improvements in ship building leading to expansion of exploration and exploitation of resources from afar. The items we have now such as this pencil and all things upholding our modern existence depend on the system of global trade we have today.
This fact coexists with extreme tension over the interdependency it creates. It makes us very uncomfortable. We evolved to live in groups no larger than about 120 individuals and we view everyone outside of this limited sphere with some degree of suspicion. Rightly so, the farther out you get from your local tribe the greater the cultural differences and enmity. We find ourselves dependent on imports from distant peoples we would never want to live amongst and with whom we are but one misunderstanding or perceived insult away from a hot war.
You can put up trade barriers and try to unring this bell but it’s not possible. As we are seeing it causes a worldwide crash of trust in the entire system (as I said before, the stock market is nothing but an expression of the amount of trust in the future behavior of your fellow man).
So Trump’s goal better be negotiating tariffs down to nothing and a gradual rebuilding of some of our industry and securing back some of our supply chain security, but the problem is we aren’t giving up the technological advances that came with globalization. We aren’t going back to WW2 technology where we were able to build all our own planes and ships unless we want to ditch the technological advances made since then.
And even then it can’t happen. We can build our own steel plants again, but the machinery needed to do that is from elsewhere and even more concerning, the engineering knowledge to install and operate it is overseas. We have lost the very skills and knowledge to do these things. The generation (WW2) that had them is dead now and the next best (boomers) are retiring and dying and the ones following (millennials and younger) aren’t learning how to make steel.
Trying to divorce from globalism would result in exactly what we are seeing: A global market meltdown. It needs to transform into something more like staying together for the sake of the kids even if we don’t love each other anymore, while gradually disentangling our assets. I hope Trump understands this.
https://x.com/elisdee_one/status/1909187831819575599
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Mortgage interest rates are coming down.
That often means housing prices will be increasing. I have a contract to sell my house, so that is good. But I have an offer in to buy another with cash. That is not so good, but perhaps a wash.
Edit: I thought I had deleted this post because it is not exactly correct. But it has already been quoted, so I'll just leave it here with this disclaimer.
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That often means housing prices will be increasing. I have a contract to sell my house, so that is good. But I have an offer in to buy another with cash. That is not so good, but perhaps a wash.
I've found that it's always a balance high rates = low prices, low rates = high prices. It's getting the timing right that's a challenge.
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Mortgage interest rates are coming down.
A federal judge will place an order to put those mortgage rates back up.
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Somehow I don't remember the pearl clutching and bedwetting over this:
https://x.com/POTUS46Archive/status/1790385220983677016
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Somehow I don't remember the pearl clutching and bedwetting over this:
https://x.com/POTUS46Archive/status/1790385220983677016
So corporate taxes are paid by the consumers?
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Somehow I don't remember the pearl clutching and bedwetting over this:
https://x.com/POTUS46Archive/status/1790385220983677016
You may want to have an examination for early Alzheimer's. Just one of several articles on those tariffs:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/may/17/jared-polis/will-joe-bidens-new-china-tariffs-hit-every-family/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/may/17/jared-polis/will-joe-bidens-new-china-tariffs-hit-every-family/)
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You may want to have an examination for early Alzheimer's. Just one of several articles on those tariffs:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/may/17/jared-polis/will-joe-bidens-new-china-tariffs-hit-every-family/ (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/may/17/jared-polis/will-joe-bidens-new-china-tariffs-hit-every-family/)
LOL right.
And I take financial advice from a graduate of the Paul Krugman Institute of Economics as well as the Jim Cramer School of Finance. ::)
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Just out of curiosity, has kramer ever been right about any prediction he made?
His success rate seems to mirror the mmgw bullshit alarmists’.
I guess the communist scum at the eu are seeing the light of truth.
https://nypost.com/2025/04/07/us-news/eu-offers-to-remove-industrial-tariffs-on-us-goods-ready-for-a-good-deal/
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LOL right.
And I take financial advice from a graduate of the Paul Krugman Institute of Economics as well as the Jim Cramer School of Finance. ::)
You don't seem to have point to your posts beyond belittling the millions around the world who make the market. You need to post your brilliant insights where those millions can see them.
Read post two of this thread, made three months ago. It was an unemotional observation about the probable future direction I thought the market could go, and why. Trump provided the trigger and a bear market appears more probable than a turn to a bull market anytime soon.
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You don't seem to have point to your posts beyond belittling the millions around the world who make the market. You need to post your brilliant insights where those millions can see them.
Read post two of this thread, made three months ago. It was an unemotional observation about the probable future direction I thought the market could go, and why. Trump provided the trigger and a bear market appears more probable than a turn to a bull market anytime soon.
So did you get a Masters from both PKIE and the JCSoF, or go for the full doctorate?
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Gee… I bet no one in the ass sucking media noticed this one, either.
Someone message ithese over to jim.
https://www.offthepress.com/amazon-most-of-the-other-dominant-us-stocks-the-magnificent-seven-closed-higher-monday/
https://www.offthepress.com/oil-prices-continue-to-drop-nearly-down-to-60-per-barrel/
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It's nice to see a necessary correction without the FED doing it. Let the markets be markets people, and maybe just maybe, we can have the stock markets mean something, and rely on FUNDAMENTALS instead of just being another CASINO.
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(https://i.imgur.com/wV00a1A.jpg)
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Gee…
After all the lies, bed wetting, and bullshit whining, and now just four days later…
Market set to open 1000 points higher.
I wonder if our TDS sufferers will give President Trump credit or just throw out more stupid shit instead.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/07/stock-market-today-live-updates.html
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(https://i.imgur.com/wV00a1A.jpg)
https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/ (https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/)
“ As of April 4th, 2025 (end-of-day), the total market capitalization of the U.S. stock market stands at $52.0 trillion ($52,010,031.5 million). Since the start of the year, $10 trillion in value has been wiped out from the U.S. stock market.”
So ~16% drop, not 4%.
And whereas it took decades to accrue $36 trillion in debt, Trump’s tariff war generated $10 trillion in loses in three months. (Deficit for 2025 projected to be about $1.9 trillion.)
Lastly, if the market were to fall to its 20 year mean EPS ratio it would have dropped by around half its original value. Half of $62 trillion is what, Lucifer?
That’s a bad meme you dragged in here. Tsk.
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New day… same stupid shit from our libertarian.
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https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/ (https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/)
“ As of April 4th, 2025 (end-of-day), the total market capitalization of the U.S. stock market stands at $52.0 trillion ($52,010,031.5 million). Since the start of the year, $10 trillion in value has been wiped out from the U.S. stock market.”
So ~16% drop, not 4%.
And whereas it took decades to accrue $36 trillion in debt, Trump’s tariff war generated $10 trillion in loses in three months. (Deficit for 2025 projected to be about $1.9 trillion.)
Lastly, if the market were to fall to its 20 year mean EPS ratio it would have dropped by around half its original value. Half of $62 trillion is what, Lucifer?
That’s a bad meme you dragged in here. Tsk.
Apples and oranges. Debt is REAL. You are obligated to pay it. Stock market losses are just imagination. Like I've said, capital investment is just optimism, it's gambling. There isn't and never was any real value in it. It's all based on hope for a future that may never happen. This is why you don't count losses OR GAINS until you sell it. Trump didn't lose us $10 trillion in anything but wishful thinking. To the extent any of us are in the stock market at all is the extent we're gamblers and idiots.
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Stock market losses are only losses if you sell. Oil prices also went down. Transportation costs will go down because of it. That will put real money in the pockets of everyone.
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Apples and oranges. Debt is REAL. You are obligated to pay it. Stock market losses are just imagination.
Ahem. Lucifer introduced the meme with the invalid comparison, not I. I just pointed out that the percentage loss in the meme was wrong, and that if translated to dollar amounts the values were of comparable magnitude.
As to imaginary losses and gains: owning stock is a claim on real physical assets and any profits distributed by the company. Value of that stock at any moment is a matter of differing speculation on its future returns, but that speculated value isn't synonymous with imaginary value. The latter implies a belief similar to belief in unicorns or fairies.
And yes, I'm aware that a lot of people confuse the stock market with Vegas so that the trading prices become untethered from any association with underlying value. Long term, though, market prices vary with the underlying physical and profit values.
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https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/ (https://siblisresearch.com/data/us-stock-market-value/)
“ As of April 4th, 2025 (end-of-day), the total market capitalization of the U.S. stock market stands at $52.0 trillion ($52,010,031.5 million). Since the start of the year, $10 trillion in value has been wiped out from the U.S. stock market.”
So ~16% drop, not 4%.
And whereas it took decades to accrue $36 trillion in debt, Trump’s tariff war generated $10 trillion in loses in three months. (Deficit for 2025 projected to be about $1.9 trillion.)
Lastly, if the market were to fall to its 20 year mean EPS ratio it would have dropped by around half its original value. Half of $62 trillion is what, Lucifer?
That’s a bad meme you dragged in here. Tsk.
You still don’t get it, and never will.
My portfolio is not doing too bad, but I make informed smart decisions unlike 401k commandos like you that respond to fear of the unknown.
The people that trade on emotion enable people like me to profit in the market.
Keep crying.
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TDS is a terrible thing.
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Ahem. Lucifer introduced the meme with the invalid comparison, not I. I just pointed out that the percentage loss in the meme was wrong, and that if translated to dollar amounts the values were of comparable magnitude.
As to imaginary losses and gains: owning stock is a claim on real physical assets and any profits distributed by the company. Value of that stock at any moment is a matter of differing speculation on its future returns, but that speculated value isn't synonymous with imaginary value. The latter implies a belief similar to belief in unicorns or fairies.
And yes, I'm aware that a lot of people confuse the stock market with Vegas so that the trading prices become untethered from any association with underlying value. Long term, though, market prices vary with the underlying physical and profit values.
I realize that. The point of the meme is Trump hatred, not discernment about the differences between the two metrics.
And yes you get something real out of stocks like dividends and potential claims to assets. Tell that to my mother who was misguided into buying a bunch of Lehman Brothers. It’s still mostly gambling on a future that hasn’t happened. Which is the reason tax on “unrealized gains” is evil - which is in turn why that moronic cunt Harris proposed it.
And I understand the long term performance and still agree with it however cautiously. We’re not pulling out. But while past performance is the best predictor of future performance in some things (like the behavior of criminals), in the context of a macroeconomy one is prudent to take civilizational cycles into consideration. And that behavior shows signs that we are actually on the cusp of a fatal downturn. But it may take a century or two so in the meantime we will stay in the market based on hope in the unicorns and fairies as you put it.
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You still don’t ence.get it, and never will.
My portfolio is not doing too bad, but I make informed smart decisions unlike 401k commandos like you that respond to fear of the unknown.
The people that trade on emotion enable people like me to profit in the market.
Keep crying.
I knew the market was over-valued for months and even posted about its overvaluation in this thread. I haven't done ANY lamenting at all, nor sold on the way down. About the only thing we agree on is that people shouldn't act in panic. If you can't handle having your faulty memes corrected why not engage a little critical thinking before forwarding them to this forum? Even you should have known the market has dropped more than 4% from its recent high.
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Ahem. Lucifer introduced the meme with the invalid comparison, not I.
The meme wasn't comparing debt to stock market value.
The meme was comparing the reaction to the enormous debt vs the reaction to the drop is stock values.
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The meme wasn't comparing debt to stock market value.
The meme was comparing the reaction to the enormous debt vs the reaction to the drop is stock values.
Exactly. It's the reaction that's the funny part. However. both the stock market and the debt can be handled easily. Simply print and distribute $100T. The debt goes away, all that money goes into the stock market, and everyone becomes a billionaire. Sure, eggs are a $million each, but who cares when you're a billionaire?
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The meme wasn't comparing debt to stock market value.
The meme was comparing the reaction to the enormous debt vs the reaction to the drop is stock values.
The meme got the reaction to government debt wrong, too. Its existence was one reason Republicans took control of all the branches of the Federal government. Only Lucifer and the author of that meme think no one had been wailing about the national debt.
Bottom line is the meme is trying to down-play the danger and cost of Trump's global tariffs.
It appears there are two opposite forms of TDS:
The one in which Trump can do no right.
The one in which Trump can do no wrong.
DOGE, de-regulation, cutting the government down in size are all examples of good work by Trump.
The universal 10% tariffs and "reciprocal" tariffs are not good and the alleged benefits are speculative.
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As always jimmy plays a stupid card and loses.
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The meme got the reaction to government debt wrong, too. Its existence was one reason Republicans took control of all the branches of the Federal government. Only Lucifer and the author of that meme think no one had been wailing about the national debt.
Bottom line is the meme is trying to down-play the danger and cost of Trump's global tariffs.
It appears there are two opposite forms of TDS:
The one in which Trump can do no right.
The one in which Trump can do no wrong.
DOGE, de-regulation, cutting the government down in size are all examples of good work by Trump.
The universal 10% tariffs and "reciprocal" tariffs are not good and the alleged benefits are speculative.
But they're not universal 10% tariffs! They're just a threat to bring other countries to the table to lower THEIR tariffs.
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With over 50 nations having already reached out to equalize tariffs the bedwetting from out resident Trump hater is hollow and insincere.
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Maybe we should let all of this play out and then decide whether it was good or bad. I know in these days of 24 hour news and wanting instant results, that's asking for a lot.
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The meme got the reaction to government debt wrong, too. Its existence was one reason Republicans took control of all the branches of the Federal government. Only Lucifer and the author of that meme think no one had been wailing about the national debt.
Bottom line is the meme is trying to down-play the danger and cost of Trump's global tariffs.
It appears there are two opposite forms of TDS:
The one in which Trump can do no right.
The one in which Trump can do no wrong.
DOGE, de-regulation, cutting the government down in size are all examples of good work by Trump.
The universal 10% tariffs and "reciprocal" tariffs are not good and the alleged benefits are speculative.
are you joking?
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are you joking?
Could you be specific about which parts of my post you dispute, and why?
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I knew the market was over-valued for months and even posted about its overvaluation in this thread. I haven't done ANY lamenting at all, nor sold on the way down. About the only thing we agree on is that people shouldn't act in panic. If you can't handle having your faulty memes corrected why not engage a little critical thinking before forwarding them to this forum? Even you should have known the market has dropped more than 4% from its recent high.
Read Rush’s reply, she summed it up well.
You obviously can’t understand humor. You must be a real killjoy at parties when someone tells a joke and you proceed to fact check them.
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Maybe we should let all of this play out and then decide whether it was good or bad. I know in these days of 24 hour news and wanting instant results, that's asking for a lot.
This is an outstanding point. Someone does something, instantly it's on X or elsewhere, people start screaming immediately, and soon something else happens that negates the first thing or makes it good instead of bad, or bad instead of good. We should implement a rule here that all government policy decisions cannot be commented on for one week after announcement. Well, at least I'll (try to) wait a week before deciding if it's good or bad.
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The meme got the reaction to government debt wrong, too. Its existence was one reason Republicans took control of all the branches of the Federal government. Only Lucifer and the author of that meme think no one had been wailing about the national debt.
Bottom line is the meme is trying to down-play the danger and cost of Trump's global tariffs.
It appears there are two opposite forms of TDS:
The one in which Trump can do no right.
The one in which Trump can do no wrong.
DOGE, de-regulation, cutting the government down in size are all examples of good work by Trump.
The universal 10% tariffs and "reciprocal" tariffs are not good and the alleged benefits are speculative.
Jim, it's a negotiating tool, that's all. We're already seeing many countries including several big players either acquiescing, or saying they want to negotiate new trade deals.
I think it's a good strategy and Trump should NOT back down. Yes, we may have temporary pain we NEED to go through, short term
Relax. Stop the knee jerk reactions.
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Jim, it's a negotiating tool, that's all. We're already seeing many countries including several big players either acquiescing, or saying they want to negotiate new trade deals.
I think it's a good strategy and Trump should NOT back down. Yes, we may have temporary pain we NEED to go through, short term
Relax. Stop the knee jerk reactions.
It's kind of important he not back down. He needs to keep projecting Alpha status in every arena. We need people like Islamo terrorists, Putin, Iran, Zelensky, China, Little Rocket Man and the whole world to know he's the boss. There is no other way. We need to re-strengthen our country after Biden's ruinous mess and decades of corrupt Uniparty mismanagement both domestic and abroad.
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This article reflects Jim’s thinking on Trump.
https://babylonbee.com/news/analysts-clarify-that-trump-is-only-responsible-for-the-stock-market-when-it-goes-down
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Elon Musk Says Peter Navarro Is 'Dumber Than a Sack of Bricks'
Musk is right. Navarro is a socialist with foolish economic views who should never have been put in charge of anything.
...
In a series of tweets over the past few days, Musk has taken aim at Navarro, the White House's top trade policy adviser. In one diatribe, Musk accused Navarro of being a "moron" and pointed out that Navarro "ain't built shit."
On Tuesday morning, Musk put a finer point on it: "Navarro is dumber than a sack of bricks."
...
"Navarro is both the dumbest economist in America, and the most influential," Noah Smith wrote on X last month, in response to Navarro's claim on Fox News that "tariffs are tax cuts." (The opposite is true: These tariffs are a major tax hike.)
Since then, Navarro has only made his shortcomings more apparent. When he's not spouting more nonsense during cable news interviews, he's reportedly blocking attempts by foreign countries to strike deals with Trump that could lower tariffs. Yesterday, after the European Union and Vietnam indicated their willingness to negotiate lower tariffs if America would do the same, Navarro immediately crapped all over the idea. "When they come to us and say, we'll go to zero tariffs, that means nothing to us," he said.
But the roots of Navarro's economic illiteracy run deep.
As I detailed in a 2020 feature for Reason, Navarro became one of the most powerful people in the first Trump administration after a failed left-wing political career—longtime California political pundit Joe Matthews has called him "San Diego's Bernie Sanders."
That analogy helps explain a lot about the current moment, I think. If Sanders—a longtime advocate for tariffs and opponent of free trade who thinks consumers don't need variety or choice in the marketplace—was appointed to run U.S. trade policy, would anything be different?
When Navarro wasn't losing elections or inventing fake economists to support his positions, Navarro also founded an anti-growth community organization and helped entrench some of the regulatory hurdles to building housing that are still harming California today.
...
Full article here:
https://reason.com/2025/04/08/elon-musk-says-peter-navarro-is-dumber-than-a-sack-of-bricks/ (https://reason.com/2025/04/08/elon-musk-says-peter-navarro-is-dumber-than-a-sack-of-bricks/)
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This guy needs fired.
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Are we having fun yet?
This reminds me of the old limbo song:
HOW LOW CAN YOU GO?
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I just hope this doesn't result in a backlash that loses Trump in the midterms. Damn, times need to turn around and get good SOON.
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It took years to get this country into this mess, it will not be solved in a matter of days.
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It took years to get this country into this mess, it will not be solved in a matter of days.
The stupid ones being lied to are going to turn a correction into a catastophe. Like my brother, protesting DOGE finding fraud in social security. Meanwhile 2 million illegal aliens got ss numbers in 2023. IIRC, something like that. Trump's trying to SAVE social security for you you goddamn stupid idiot.
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I just hope this doesn't result in a backlash that loses Trump in the midterms. Damn, times need to turn around and get good SOON.
That’s been my point all along.
Even if I agree with what he is doing, the way he is going about it is going to get us killed in 2026.
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(https://i.imgur.com/CUp82H4.jpg)
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A person replied to a friends FB post that they had lost $40k in their retirement account. I replied that they hadn't lost anything unless they were foolish enough to cash in.
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Immunized in the media and government have on in west hood people to believe whatever lies they think serve their criminal purposes at the time, and never question the outright hypocrisy of their claims.
Really stupid people think they can pretend that Trump didn’t mean something good to happen because their favorite bullshit form of Pravda said so.
We have one of those that posts occasionally.
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(https://i.imgur.com/CUp82H4.jpg)
Mommy: Lucifer, stop hitting your head with that hammer.
Lucifer: why. When Biden was hitting me with a hammer you didn’t make him stop.
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That’s been my point all along.
Even if I agree with what he is doing, the way he is going about it is going to get us killed in 2026.
THIS is a great argument against “democracy” and for benevolent dictatorship. If Trump were actually a dictator like the left claims, he would be free to do all this without fear of voter backlash against a Republican held Congress (or even the WH in 2028). He would be able to force us all to undergo short term pain for long term gain for however long it takes. Of course the whole problem with dictatorships is they’re often not benevolent. But democracies can be just as bad. They decay into rule by the stupid, uninformed and uneducated.
There was good reason voting in the U.S. was originally limited to white male property owners over the age of 21. (Varied by state but that was the general rule.) While I don’t agree with using race and sex to deny you the right to vote, it did work out statistically to limit voting to the more educated, and to those with direct responsibility for their stake in the economy.
But over time we expanded voting rights to demographics that were on average less educated, less invested in the economic engine, or more likely to vote on emotion rather than facts. I’m looking at women! Turns out giving blacks the vote was a good thing, until they flipped en masse to Democrat after the Democratic party lured them into destroying their nuclear families and embracing parasitism.
But giving women the vote was a disaster. Women are default economic parasites, needing to be supported by a man because their job is to make babies to continue the species. A job they are now abandoning in droves. They entered the workforce and devalued men’s jobs by half but somehow fail to change their voting to support good economic policy and instead still favor parasitic policies (socialism, communism). Methinks they protest too much about being “strong and independent” while still thinking the world owes them a financial safety net.
The other massive stupid mistake was dropping the voting age to 18. I understand the argument about “if you’re old enough to go to war you should be able to vote” but I dispute that. Just because an 18 year old male is hard wired to follow another male into battle to protect his group does not give him insight into geopolitics or macroeconomics and make him a wise voter.
Our problem is the voters. If we just let Trump do his thing unfettered, things will sort themselves out. But do we have enough time before the voters fuck us in the ass, or the left drags us into civil war?
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Mommy: Lucifer, stop hitting your head with that hammer.
Lucifer: why. When Biden was hitting me with a hammer you didn’t make him stop.
Uh, OK Joe...............
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I like Trump's slash and burn approach. It's what is needed to get results. I'm doubling down. Go Don!
Is he perfect? NO.
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I like Trump's slash and burn approach. It's what is needed to get results. I'm doubling down. Go Don!
Is he perfect? NO.
This is a very fine needle to thread. He must act fast (slash and burn) to throw the opposition off balance and to achieve some correction before the voters have a chance to block it all, yet the slash and burn approach could backfire because of the instability I talked about earlier. People HATE instability.
The rot is so deep though, that torching it all might be the only way to kill off the infestation. Even so it won’t be complete. There will remain remnants. There are already rogue factions within the CIA and among those let go who are organizing surreptitiously into an actual insurrectionist movement.
This is a pivotal moment in history. No president has tried to course correct like Trump is doing and there is a massive amount of inertia to overcome. He’s pulling up hard on the yoke to avoid hitting the mountain and we pax in the back are freaking out.
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The only way to be sure.
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Regarding midterms. He declares the end of income tax. The whole country goes red.
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Regarding midterms. He declares the end of income tax. The whole country goes red.
Oh man! Please make it so.
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Regarding midterms. He declares the end of income tax. The whole country goes red.
doubtful... so many people don't directly pay income tax.
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Markets are suddenly up. WSJ reports:
By WSJ Staff
“Based on the lack of respect that China has shown to the World’s Markets, I am hereby raising the Tariff charged to China by the United States of America to 125%, effective immediately,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “At some point, hopefully in the near future, China will realize that the days of ripping off the U.S.A., and other Countries, is no longer sustainable or acceptable.”
Trump added that he has authorized a “90 day PAUSE, and a substantially lowered Reciprocal Tariff during this period, of 10%, also effective immediately.” It wasn’t immediately clear whether Trump’s 10% baseline tariff was on a pause, or if his higher reciprocal rates were on a pause.
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Markets are suddenly up. WSJ reports:
huh - I guess being up 2441 is "up", eh?
don't get me wrong, I'm not getting excited either way...
eta: I am soooooo glad I'm not in the market .... yes, I missed "making" oodles of money, but I also missed "losing" oodles and going absolutely bonkers watching the market swings.
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Holy shit!! We just made back about half of what we lost.
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gotta love some of the accounting terms...
unrealized gain/profit
unrealized loss
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gotta love some of the accounting terms...
unrealized gain/profit
unrealized loss
Oh it’s all imaginary. Paper money is bad enough, relying on society’s agreement that it’s worth anything. We don’t even have that anymore. All our bank accounts and investment accounts are just digital promises on servers somewhere.
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Regarding midterms. He declares the end of income tax. The whole country goes red.
I'd love that. But it's still going to be hated as a handout to millionaires and billionaires. Just like any tax cut. As Bob says, most don't pay taxes. And with no income tax, they can't get "refunds" of more money than they paid in due to all the credits.
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huh - I guess being up 2441 is "up", eh?
don't get me wrong, I'm not getting excited either way...
eta: I am soooooo glad I'm not in the market .... yes, I missed "making" oodles of money, but I also missed "losing" oodles and going absolutely bonkers watching the market swings.
I guess up by 2441 is not real, or positive, so the whining contingent is ignoring it, hoping everyone misses the bounce.
Typical of leftist trash.
When citizens are doing well lefties HATE it.
Those same whiners will bitch to high heaven every time normal people get a tax break. It’s so fucking dishonest and utterly expected of the left.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/08/stock-market-today-live-updates-.html
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Trump made his announcement at 1:18 EST and the historic jump started by 1:26.
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Trump made his announcement at 1:18 EST and the historic jump started by 1:26.
Obviously unconnected.
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Obviously unconnected.
On the contrary, it is proof that the President can have a major impact on the economy and the stock market (which are two separate things).
In general, when the economy does shitty, party in charge says the President has no effect on the economy, but when the market does well, those same people attribute that to their President.
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The stock markets and the "economy" are two different things.
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They are interrelated.
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On the contrary, it is proof that the President can have a major impact on the economy and the stock market (which are two separate things).
In general, when the economy does shitty, party in charge says the President has no effect on the economy, but when the market does well, those same people attribute that to their President.
Trump has blown in like a force of nature stirring up the entire freaking world! He’s going to go down in history as one of THE most powerful, transformative, and iconoclastic men ever to have lived.
It’s like the trope of the evil mastermind plotting to “take over the world” and someone finally did, except he’s not evil. He’s doing it for good. Because he loves his country and its people.
Look how people completely change their behavior based on nothing but some words he says, never mind if he takes action. The illegals are now self deporting. Europe is stepping up its own defense. The markets over the entire world melted down in panic because he uttered the word “tariff” and they surged with joy when he said “pause”. Hamas started releasing hostages because he said, “Do it or there will be hell to pay.” He didn’t have to say anything at all for Putin to signal willingness to negotiate over Ukraine.
In theory other presidents should have had this power but they didn’t have the personality and sheer presence to actually exercise it. They were all basically figureheads as we are finding out. The president of the U.S. being “The most powerful man on the planet” may have been true in times past but not anymore. The unelected deep state has been the real power for quite a few decades - until Trump 2.0.
And he’s playing everyone like a puppet master pulling strings, the whole planet! It’s astounding. Even more astounding is he’s doing it all with good intentions: Peace, prosperity, freedom and security. How RARE is that, for a man to climb to the top of all humanity for the purpose of doing all these good things for us.
He may yet not succeed; a bullet may still find him any day, or he’s human and imperfect, he may miscalculate and badly screw everything up. But it sure is a wild ride!
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In general, when the economy does shitty, party in charge says the President has no effect on the economy, but when the market does well, those same people attribute that to their President.
Actually, that's only part of the story. Sometimes the President was, in fact, the cause of the economy tanking, sometimes the President did, in fact, help the economy improve. Not always. But it's much easier to screw up the economy than to fix it.
But people need to consider the rooster, thinking he causes the sun to rise simply because he crows in the morning.
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Actually, that's only part of the story. Sometimes the President was, in fact, the cause of the economy tanking, sometimes the President did, in fact, help the economy improve. Not always. But it's much easier to screw up the economy than to fix it.
But people need to consider the rooster, thinking he causes the sun to rise simply because he crows in the morning.
Right. Bill Clinton supposedly balancing the budget is an excellent example. No he didn’t. It was a Republican Congress that set the budget. But he did contribute to it by setting some policy that helped enable to tech boom which brought in more revenue.
Typically it’s a mix. A LOT is carrying over from the precious term and a lot is things outside the president’s control, while he can also do a lot to tweak it.
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Yep
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Trump has blown in like a force of nature stirring up the entire freaking world! He’s going to go down in history as one of THE most powerful, transformative, and iconoclastic men ever to have lived.
It’s like the trope of the evil mastermind plotting to “take over the world” and someone finally did, except he’s not evil. He’s doing it for good. Because he loves his country and its people.
Look how people completely change their behavior based on nothing but some words he says, never mind if he takes action. The illegals are now self deporting. Europe is stepping up its own defense. The markets over the entire world melted down in panic because he uttered the word “tariff” and they surged with joy when he said “pause”. Hamas started releasing hostages because he said, “Do it or there will be hell to pay.” He didn’t have to say anything at all for Putin to signal willingness to negotiate over Ukraine.
In theory other presidents should have had this power but they didn’t have the personality and sheer presence to actually exercise it. They were all basically figureheads as we are finding out. The president of the U.S. being “The most powerful man on the planet” may have been true in times past but not anymore. The unelected deep state has been the real power for quite a few decades - until Trump 2.0.
And he’s playing everyone like a puppet master pulling strings, the whole planet! It’s astounding. Even more astounding is he’s doing it all with good intentions: Peace, prosperity, freedom and security. How RARE is that, for a man to climb to the top of all humanity for the purpose of doing all these good things for us.
He may yet not succeed; a bullet may still find him any day, or he’s human and imperfect, he may miscalculate and badly screw everything up. But it sure is a wild ride!
Yesterday’s Coffee & Covid outlines exactly what you said.
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/the-art-of-the-global-deal-wednesday
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Also, today’s is interesting too. It’s so clear … Trump is for us, the left is for themselves.
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/serendipity-thursday-april-10-2025
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Right. Bill Clinton supposedly balancing the budget is an excellent example. No he didn’t. It was a Republican Congress that set the budget. But he did contribute to it by setting some policy that helped enable to tech boom which brought in more revenue.
Typically it’s a mix. A LOT is carrying over from the precious term and a lot is things outside the president’s control, while he can also do a lot to tweak it.
it didn't hurt that the clinton scum inherited a recovering economy
plus adding in the "surplus" from social security taxs.
a lot of smoke and mirrors, deferring expenses, etc went into the so-called balanced budgets.
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The stock markets and the "economy" are two different things.
That's exactly what I said:
edit: they are separate, but I agree they are related. A strong economy can boost the stock market. Or subsidization by the government (eg: Quantative easing) can boost the stock market in a weak econony.
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Stock market losses are only losses if you sell. Oil prices also went down. Transportation costs will go down because of it. That will put real money in the pockets of everyone.
My pipeline stocks all cratered because tariffs on exports of LNG. Oh well, I'm still up massively.
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Strong economies can also cause inflation and higher interest rates, which usually hurts the stock markets.
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Yesterday’s Coffee & Covid outlines exactly what you said.
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/the-art-of-the-global-deal-wednesday
WOW! I perceived it but didn’t articulate it as well as that article.
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Strong economies can also cause inflation and higher interest rates, which usually hurts the stock markets.
True. That's why I said the economy and the stock market are two different things and can go in different directions at the same time.
When I was making a ton in the stock market, my less fortunate siblings were struggling to find jobs and buy groceries.
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True. That's why I said the economy and the stock market are two different things and can go in different directions at the same time.
When I was making a ton in the stock market, my less fortunate siblings were struggling to find jobs and buy groceries.
Are you the firstborn? Mark and I are both firstborn and we are doing significantly better than any of our siblings. I can’t help but think birth order matters. I don’t know if statistics back that up but anecdotally I have noticed firstborns tend to be more responsible and conscientious. Maybe that’s just a myth.
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Are you the firstborn? Mark and I are both firstborn and we are doing significantly better than any of our siblings. I can’t help but think birth order matters. I don’t know if statistics back that up but anecdotally I have noticed firstborns tend to be more responsible and conscientious. Maybe that’s just a myth.
I'm the youngest of three.
I think we are all pretty responsible and conscientious.
so, an exception to your myth.
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Are you the firstborn? Mark and I are both firstborn and we are doing significantly better than any of our siblings. I can’t help but think birth order matters. I don’t know if statistics back that up but anecdotally I have noticed firstborns tend to be more responsible and conscientious. Maybe that’s just a myth.
I'm second of six.
#1 is probably the smartest all around of us all, but when he came back from Vietnam he was a different person. Bitter and sarcastic. But he started to mellow out at around age 70.
#3 died young of Pancreatic cancer at 65. He was the smartest at some things and dumb as a brick at others. He was a great engineer though. (I really miss him)
#4 had to do a year in prison for drugs and divorce her enabling husband before straightening herself out.
#5 is second most successful. (she married well)
Least successful is #6. He was the baby and was always treated as such. Given everything he wanted and never really had to follow the rules the rest of us did.
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I'm second of six.
#1 is probably the smartest all around of us all, but when he came back from Vietnam he was a different person. Bitter and sarcastic. But he started to mellow out at around age 70.
#3 died young of Pancreatic cancer at 65. He was the smartest at some things and dumb as a brick at others. He was a great engineer though. (I really miss him)
#4 had to do a year in prison for drugs and divorce her enabling husband before straightening herself out.
#5 is second most successful. (she married well)
Least successful is #6. He was the baby and was always treated as such. Given everything he wanted and never really had to follow the rules the rest of us did.
I’m the first of five. #2 was a nurse, died of breast cancer at age 48. Numbers 3 and 4, both female, are hard workers, but not in jobs as lucrative as engineering which I got into. Number 5, the only boy and the baby, is also an engineer but seems not to have saved as much or as early as hubby and I did. He’s struggling to figure out how to pay for his kid’s college. And… like yours, has that entitlement attitude. He’s the lefty liberal.
But there’s a twist: I’m only the first born of my mother, and the eldest in the household growing up. My father did an oopsie with a girl in college and 35 years later the result called up my dad and said, “Hi! I’m your son!” The lady had given him up for adoption and he had tracked down the records and found his bio-parents.
So I’m the second born of my father. But I don’t think that messes up the birth order thing because we didn’t grow up together. I didn’t even know he existed until I was 30 but we instantly bonded and have been very close ever since.
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I’m 5th of 7.
The first two suffered severe health issues and were in nursing homes early.
The third died from radiation exposure at 56. He was gifted with things mechanical but had horrible luck with marriages.
The fourth is a single senior citizen that lives in a rent controlled apartment she rented in 1977. Smart girl.
The seventh is in medicine and has lost at marriage four times.
The sixth died at six…. So we will never know.
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I'm the second of two. My brother died a couple days after birth, so I'm really an only child. I had a half brother, he died of a massive heart attack a couple of years ago and I have a half sister that lives in IL. She never finished HS but got a G.E.D. and works as a QC person in a manufacturing plant. Two years ago she had bypass surgery and still has stents to go with it. Currently on workers comp, had a hip replacement due to a fall in the parking lot at work. She'll be out a while as they had to do it using the posterior method due to the excessive bone damage. Her blood flow got cut off ot the bone and a bunch of it died off.
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I'm the second of two. My brother died a couple days after birth, so I'm really an only child. I had a half brother, he died of a massive heart attack a couple of years ago and I have a half sister that lives in IL. She never finished HS but got a G.E.D. and works as a QC person in a manufacturing plant. Two years ago she had bypass surgery and still has stents to go with it. Currently on workers comp, had a hip replacement due to a fall in the parking lot at work. She'll be out a while as they had to do it using the posterior method due to the excessive bone damage. Her blood flow got cut off ot the bone and a bunch of it died off.
You mention the brother that died shortly after birth. My mother had 4 miscarriages but I only found out a couple of years ago one of them wasn’t an early miscarriage but more like a stillbirth. She and my father took it to the family cemetery where they buried it, but there is no marker!
As for the hip replacement, I had the posterior method and prefer it. Osteonecrosis? Yikes! Indeed if there is extensive damage the posterior approach allows more maneuvering room and less risk of damage to nerves.
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(https://i.imgur.com/cEzSver.jpg)
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So, futures are down this morning. I asked Grok how much influence Black Rok and Vanguard have on the markets....
BlackRock and Vanguard wield significant influence on global financial markets due to their massive assets under management (AUM) and ownership stakes in publicly traded companies. As of 2025, BlackRock manages approximately $10.5 trillion in AUM, while Vanguard oversees around $8.6 trillion, making them the two largest asset managers globally. Their influence stems from several key factors:
Ownership of Equities: Together, BlackRock and Vanguard own substantial shares in a vast number of publicly traded companies, often holding 5-10% or more of major firms across industries like technology, healthcare, finance, and consumer goods. For example, they are among the top shareholders in companies like Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, and JPMorgan Chase. Their combined ownership in S&P 500 companies is estimated to be around 15-20%, giving them significant voting power in corporate governance.
Index Funds and ETFs: Both firms dominate the passive investing space through index funds and exchange-traded funds (ETFs). Their low-cost funds, such as BlackRock’s iShares and Vanguard’s Total Stock Market Index Fund, attract trillions in investor capital. Since these funds track major indices like the S&P 500, they automatically allocate capital to thousands of companies, amplifying their influence over market dynamics. This passive investing trend has led to concerns about concentrated ownership and reduced competition, as these firms hold stakes in competing companies within the same sector.
Proxy Voting and Corporate Governance: BlackRock and Vanguard exercise considerable influence through proxy voting on shareholder resolutions. They can sway decisions on issues like executive compensation, mergers, environmental policies, and board elections. BlackRock’s CEO, Larry Fink, has emphasized environmental, social, and governance (ESG) factors, which can shape corporate strategies. However, their voting power has sparked debate about whether they prioritize shareholder value or broader agendas.
Market Stability and Liquidity: Their scale impacts market stability. Their ETFs and mutual funds provide liquidity, but large-scale buying or selling (e.g., during market downturns) can amplify volatility. Their dominance in passive investing also means market movements are increasingly tied to index fund flows rather than individual stock performance.
Criticism and Concerns: Critics argue that their size creates systemic risks, as their failure or coordinated actions could destabilize markets. There’s also concern about “common ownership,” where their stakes in competing firms might reduce market competition or influence pricing. Regulatory bodies, like the U.S. SEC, have scrutinized their influence, though no major restrictions have been imposed as of 2025.
For real-time data or specific examples of their holdings, I can search the web or analyze relevant X posts if needed. Let me know if you want me to dig deeper into a particular aspect.
P.S. The BB software does a piss poor job with pasted formatted text
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So, futures are down this morning. I asked Grok how much influence Black Rok and Vanguard have on the markets....
P.S. The BB software does a piss poor job with pasted formatted text
I cannot get Grok copies to paste with proper format. And it is inconsistent. Once or twice it did paste with all the formatting but I could not duplicate it and I have no idea what I did that made it work.
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I have had various problems trying to get the output from a couple of AIs to copy and paste.
A somewhat satisfactory work around is to take a screen shot and then load and import the saved file into a browse or other document.
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From the WSJ:
Now Trump Wants a Shipping Tax (https://www.wsj.com/opinion/donald-trump-shipping-tax-jamieson-greer-trade-china-exports-d29c2fd3?st=g4HbSu&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)
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From the WSJ:
Now Trump Wants a Shipping Tax (https://www.wsj.com/opinion/donald-trump-shipping-tax-jamieson-greer-trade-china-exports-d29c2fd3?st=g4HbSu&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)
I don't believe the Executive branch has the power to levy a tax.
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From the WSJ:
Now Trump Wants a Shipping Tax (https://www.wsj.com/opinion/donald-trump-shipping-tax-jamieson-greer-trade-china-exports-d29c2fd3?st=g4HbSu&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)
Sucks doesn’t it? Trying to unring the bell of becoming utterly dependent on China for all our crap.
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Sucks doesn’t it? Trying to unring the bell of becoming utterly dependent on China for all our crap.
A commenter to the WSJ piece claimed this, which seems related to your comment:
In 2024, U.S. imports from China were approximately 13.4% of the total U.S. goods imports. The total value of U.S. goods imports from China in 2024 was $438.9 billion. As a fraction of the U.S. GDP, which was roughly $29 trillion in 2024, this represents about 1.5%.
Another poster pointed out it wasn't the small fraction of imports that mattered as much as the nature of the imports, and gave this example:
Nearly half of generic active pharmaceutical ingredients consumed in the U.S. originate there (China).
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A commenter to the WSJ piece claimed this, which seems related to your comment:
In 2024, U.S. imports from China were approximately 13.4% of the total U.S. goods imports. The total value of U.S. goods imports from China in 2024 was $438.9 billion. As a fraction of the U.S. GDP, which was roughly $29 trillion in 2024, this represents about 1.5%.
Another poster pointed out it wasn't the small fraction of imports that mattered as much as the nature of the imports, and gave this example:
Nearly half of generic active pharmaceutical ingredients consumed in the U.S. originate there (China).
Exactly. That’s the problem, dependency on really important stuff. Although it’s not just China.
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Jim ignores one of china’s biggest imports isn’t tracked against out gdp and that is fentanyl.
Fuck them and the whores they buy in our government and courts.
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I sure would like to see some positive results from Trump's actions. I believe in what he is doing, but at my age, I can't wait too long.
Any day now; right?
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I sure would like to see some positive results from Trump's actions. I believe in what he is doing, but at my age, I can't wait too long.
Any day now; right?
There are some indications we are entering (or are already in) a recession. This will falsely be blamed on Trump of course. Expecting rainbows and butterflies quickly after 4 years of Biden and decades of Uniparty mismanagement is unrealistic to say the least. Although I share your unrealistic hope.
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There are some indications we are entering (or are already in) a recession. This will falsely be blamed on Trump of course. Expecting rainbows and butterflies quickly after 4 years of Biden and decades of Uniparty mismanagement is unrealistic to say the least. Although I share your unrealistic hope.
He has about 19 months. If he doesn't produce some credible results by then we will be seeing Ds take over both the House and Senate. It will be all downhill after that. I still say he shouldn't be trying to fix everything at once. Tackle s few problems, show some results, then go on to other things.
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There are some indications we are entering (or are already in) a recession. This will falsely be blamed on Trump of course. Expecting rainbows and butterflies quickly after 4 years of Biden and decades of Uniparty mismanagement is unrealistic to say the least.
This.
Anyone expecting a quick turn around from decades of mismanagement is delusional. On the trajectory prior to 2025 we were headed for a collapse of the dollar as well as collapses of government (social security, Medicare, etc). FJB’s cronies had accelerated the process by allowing the treasury to be raided and treated like a slush fund, which was assisted by congress.
The hatred of Trump/Musk is tied to the exposure of corruption and is being fueled by those who have been cut off from the money spiket. The fake news media, who know nothing about economics or markets are happily spinning lies to appease their liberal masters.
The corrections are coming, but not at social media speed (why hasn’t it already happened? )
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I sure would like to see some positive results from Trump's actions. I believe in what he is doing, but at my age, I can't wait too long.
Any day now; right?
You can't be serious. It's fucking April 21. Trump's term started January 20th. Do the math. ::)
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You can't be serious. It's fucking April 21. Trump's term started January 20th. Do the math. ::)
I'm dead serious.
I know we haven't seen the long term effects yet. But I see what he does on a daily basis and I see how the market reacts. He has 19 months to turn this around despite what you or I think. If he doesn't, then he will have gambled and lost. I don't know if he has time to see any results from his barrage. If he did a little triage and tackled the most important issues first, then he/we might see some results, then we could go on to the next set of priorities. You gotta eat the elephant one bite at a time. You can't swallow it whole.
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I'm dead serious.
I know we haven't seen the long term effects yet. But I see what he does on a daily basis and I see how the market reacts. He has 19 months to turn this around despite what you or I think. If he doesn't, then he will have gambled and lost. I don't know if he has time to see any results from his barrage. If he did a little triage and tackled the most important issues first, then he/we might see some results, then we could go on to the next set of priorities. You gotta eat the elephant one bite at a time. You can't swallow it whole.
You might be right. Then again you might not.
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You might be right. Then again you might not.
I thought I was wrong once,
but I was mistaken.
I certainly hope I am wrong now. I will gladly accept a few "I told you so's". (I have no idea if I punctuated that right).
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there is a certain level of evil humor to watching the market whiplash up down up down up down...
and watching people absolutely freak out
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there is a certain level of evil humor to watching the market whiplash up down up down up down...
and watching people absolutely freak out
Yeah. When people say, "I lost everything I worked for for the last year!" because their portfolio is back to last year's total: No you didn't! You never had it! You don't have it until you sell it. Your stocks are all just imaginary assets.
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Yeah. When people say, "I lost everything I worked for for the last year!" because their portfolio is back to last year's total: No you didn't! You never had it! You don't have it until you sell it. Your stocks are all just imaginary assets.
Ignorance of how stocks work is why the liberal media like whipsawing the public with fake news and propaganda. The market goes down and the amateurs start selling “to save what I can”. Of course this creates buying opportunities, so we need the idiots to sell and create hysteria.
Then these same idiots jump in and buy when it’s up, again creating wealth for other investors.
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there is a certain level of evil humor to watching the market whiplash up down up down up down...
and watching people absolutely freak out
You think that's funny? That really is evil.
And stupid.
You do realize that those people that are freaking out vote, don't you. Do you think they are going to vote for the person causing the whiplash?
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Yeah. When people say, "I lost everything I worked for for the last year!" because their portfolio is back to last year's total: No you didn't! You never had it! You don't have it until you sell it. Your stocks are all just imaginary assets.
Those who actually live on retirement funds invested in the stock market do not have the luxury of treating their investment gains and loses as imaginary. They must sell semi-regularly, whether the market is up or down. In particular, "sequence of returns risk" is very real to them. A manufactured down market isn't going to be appreciated by an important part of the electorate: the older retired group that votes most reliably.
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Those who actually live on retirement funds invested in the stock market do not have the luxury of treating their investment gains and loses as imaginary. They must sell semi-regularly, whether the market is up or down. In particular, "sequence of returns risk" is very real to them. A manufactured down market isn't going to be appreciated by an important part of the electorate: the older retired group that votes most reliably.
I’m part of that group. But I’m a realist. I see them as imaginary because they are imaginary, until we sell, when the gain or loss becomes real. You think I’m happy about selling at a loss? I’m just not having to recover from the shock of thinking I “lost” a bird I never had in the hand.
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Those who actually live on retirement funds invested in the stock market do not have the luxury of treating their investment gains and loses as imaginary. They must sell semi-regularly, whether the market is up or down. In particular, "sequence of returns risk" is very real to them. A manufactured down market isn't going to be appreciated by an important part of the electorate: the older retired group that votes most reliably.
Then they're idiots if the have their money in anything with volitility at all. They should have at least 90% of their funds in bonds and money market.
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Then they're idiots if the have their money in anything with volitility at all. They should have at least 90% of their funds in bonds and money market.
That is logical, if you think everyone should do like you think they should and take the same risks you would. And even if true, those idiots still VOTE.
I don't like losing enough imaginary money to buy an imaginary airplane in a just couple of days, but I'll survive without a few extra airplanes. What I'm worried about is who gets the votes in two years. Or four, but at my age I don't make plans much further out than that.
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Then they're idiots if the have their money in anything with volitility at all. They should have at least 90% of their funds in bonds and money market.
That's the conventional wisdom. As soon as you retire, rebalance to prioritize protecting the principle rather than growth. But there has been some rethinking of that in recent times as people are living longer. Nowadays there’s a bigger chance your money has to last 30 years after you stop working. When you trade growth for risk, you acquire a different risk: that your nest egg won’t keep up with inflation. That's essentially the same as a market loss.
The extreme example is to keep your money in your mattress at home. Zero risk (if you discount a house fire). I had a great uncle who did that. He didn’t trust banks. When he died his children found $70,000 literally in his mattress, that nobody knew he had. If he had instead been putting his earnings into the stock market over 45 working years, that would have been a quarter million when he died. Or about $800,000 in today’s dollars, over three times the value of the cash in the mattress.
Keeping it in a no loss but low growth asset or your mattress is fine if you’re only going to live a few years after retirement. But if you don’t die early there’s a good chance you will eventually need nursing home care on top of just living expenses for three decades. There’s a good argument for continuing a moderately aggressive growth strategy even after retirement.
It might be the wrong choice! All of this involves needing a crystal ball to foresee the future and the trust that the future will behave more or less like it has in the past: a dangerous assumption!
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That is logical, if you think everyone should do like you think they should and take the same risks you would. And even if true, those idiots still VOTE.
I don't like losing enough imaginary money to buy an imaginary airplane in a just couple of days, but I'll survive without a few extra airplanes. What I'm worried about is who gets the votes in two years. Or four, but at my age I don't make plans much further out than that.
Losing enough in a couple of days to buy an imaginary airplane or an imaginary house is a good problem to have. Most people don't have portfolios big enough to calculate their losses in units of airplanes.
They are counting on social security and not much else to survive old age. That’s why we are seeing crowds of older people protesting DOGE because they think Trump is cutting social security. And they’re panicking over any loss of their smaller nest eggs.
You are not wrong to worry about how they’re going to vote.
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We don't have that kind of money. We live on our SS, two small pensions and a monthly check from a small annuity. I have no complaints. My wife's health doesn't allow us to do much traveling. I'm happy to have been retired for fourteen years now, have a house that is paid off and enjoy lots of time with my wife. She has a small IRA that is managed by a local money guy.
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You think that's funny? That really is evil.
And stupid.
You do realize that those people that are freaking out vote, don't you. Do you think they are going to vote for the person causing the whiplash?
I realize that a lot of people vote. Did you for a moment think I don't know that people vote?
Do YOU realize that President Trump doesn't cause people to freak out? A large number of people freak out because of what other people told them they should do...
Your angst is misplaced.
TDS is strong with you.
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We don't have that kind of money. We live on our SS, two small pensions and a monthly check from a small annuity. I have no complaints. My wife's health doesn't allow us to do much traveling. I'm happy to have been retired for fourteen years now, have a house that is paid off and enjoy lots of time with my wife. She has a small IRA that is managed by a local money guy.
Yep, it's not so much your net worth, but rather your income vs outgo. If your house is paid off, you don't live extravagantly, you have three sources of income (however small; they add up) in addition to SS, you're doing okay.
I was going to mention pensions, which are fantastic if you can get them. Unfortunately in the private sector they've mostly gone away.
My mother had a small annuity that was just over $200 a month. She lived so frugally she never spent it, and after I took over her finances I would just transfer it into her money market account and let it sit there and grow. When you buy an annuity you trade the potential for more growth in the market for the safety of a lifelong income stream. You're betting you are going to live a very long time, and that the market could do very poorly, in which case you will be very glad you have that income in the end.
There are no right or wrong answers except in retrospect with 20/20 hindsight. Planning for retirement is kind of a guessing game with a lot of moving parts. Most of us will make some bad decisions and some good ones. For my great uncle, keeping his nest egg in his mattress was a bad decision, but it was made in the context of him having lived through the 1929 crash and ensuing decade of poverty with the Great Depression. From that point of view it was a rational decision.
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I realize that a lot of people vote. Did you for a moment think I don't know that people vote?
Do YOU realize that President Trump doesn't cause people to freak out? A large number of people freak out because of what other people told them they should do...
Your angst is misplaced.
TDS is strong with you.
In Joe's defense, people do vote, despite voting based on lies, misinformation, propaganda, and TDS. We are still in great danger of being manipulated back onto the commie left's track toward total destruction. I get Joe's angst, although I am trying hard to have faith things are going to work out with Trump's administration. I do have a lot of concerns though.
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I realize that a lot of people vote. Did you for a moment think I don't know that people vote?
The only other explanation is that you get more joy out of seeing people freak out than you get angst for seeing them vote against Trump.
Do YOU realize that President Trump doesn't cause people to freak out? A large number of people freak out because of what other people told them they should do...
And a lot of people freak out because of some of the things Trump does.
Your angst is misplaced.
TDS is strong with you.
I have an honest question for you. What is your criteria for diagnosing TDS? Apparently it is a pretty low bar in that if anyone disagrees with anything he does or says, they have TDS.
I submit that there is a corollary to TDS which I will coin as BTF (Blind Trump Follower). When you accuse me of having TDS it sounds to me like you think you have to belong to a Trump Cult in order to not have TDS. Do you drink Kool-Aid much?
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Those who actually live on retirement funds invested in the stock market do not have the luxury of treating their investment gains and loses as imaginary. They must sell semi-regularly, whether the market is up or down.
You’re doing it wrong if that is your strategy. ???
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You’re doing it wrong if that is your strategy. ???
What would be your strategy? Try to time the market to always sell at peaks? Good luck with that.
Here is part of my problem.
I have a contract to sell my house and close on a certain date. I have found a new house and I got a really good deal because I agreed to close in 10 days. But that same day the market dropped like a rock and when I went to sell securities to close on the new house I lost around $60k. I sold any way because I was going to need that money in 10 days and if it kept going that direction I wouldn't have enough to close my new house without selling even more at an even bigger loss.
The stock market hates uncertainty and many people are uncertain about anything Trump is doing.
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You’re doing it wrong if that is your strategy. ???
I said "they" not myself. Rudimentary pronouns escape you.
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What would be your strategy? Try to time the market to always sell at peaks? Good luck with that.
I don’t need to sell in order to derive income. I let my principal work for me.
Here is part of my problem.
I have a contract to sell my house and close on a certain date. I have found a new house and I got a really good deal because I agreed to close in 10 days. But that same day the market dropped like a rock and when I went to sell securities to close on the new house I lost around $60k. I sold any way because I was going to need that money in 10 days and if it kept going that direction I wouldn't have enough to close my new house without selling even more at an even bigger loss.
Sounds like poor planning.
The stock market hates uncertainty and many people are uncertain about anything Trump is doing.
The “uncertainty” is by people who are clueless to how the markets work being fueled by a fake news media with an agenda.
Meanwhile others are profiting.
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I said "they" not myself. Rudimentary pronouns escape you.
Let me guess, you’re a 401k type invested into mutual funds.
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You’re doing it wrong if that is your strategy. ???
Question. A lot of these accounts we're talking about are IRAs, 401(k)s and the like where you are required to withdraw a certain amount annually beginning at age 73. You have to withdraw from the retirement account in order to pay taxes on it, but you don't have to spend it. You can keep investing it in some account other than the retirement account.
So lets say it's all stocks. Do you have to sell the amount needed for the mandatory minimum withdrawal? Then you calculate the tax owed as both income tax and also possible capital gains (or loss)? Then you can invest the remainder in stock in whatever non-retirement account you have?
Or can you withdraw stocks from the retirement account valued at the dollar amount you need but keep it in the stocks? Transfer those stocks directly into your non-retirement account, and just calculate the tax on the value of it the day you did the transfer? Then pay the tax out of the cash you have in your regular checking account?
I'm not an accountant or investment banker or tax attorney and we have not reached 73 yet so I have no idea how this works. Although when my mother died and they divvied up her investments between me and my siblings, we ended up with an account with the exact same stocks in the exact same proportions mom had, only just 1/4 the amount (because there were four of us) but I have no idea what the banker did to accomplish that. Sell and rebuy, or just split the stock totals and move them around into different accounts?
Stupid question probably.
I'm gonna guess you can move stocks around without selling them first. So when your mandatory withdrawal happens at age 73, you can take out the stocks of that value WITHOUT having to sell them at a loss. Just put them in another account and pay the tax out of your pocket cash.
But I know that's not what you and Jim are talking about. Jim is saying some people must sell regularly (whether it's a retirement account or not) for their monthly income for living expenses. Maybe what you're saying is they should have set it up differently, like buy an income annuity by selling when the market is high, thus transforming their asset from a high risk form into a safe, lifelong income. Or even better, manage to build so much wealth it doesn't hurt you to sell when the market is bad. EDIT: Or, reading your subsequent post, have enough principle structured for income and dividends to live off of.
This is the whole problem (for ordinary people, not the super rich) with living off your investments instead of the old days when a company paid you a pension and you didn't live very long anyway after retirement. BUT in the old days you were loyal to your company and your company was loyal to you because you tended to stay with one company your entire life. The world has changed a lot since then.
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I don’t need to sell in order to derive income. I let my principal work for me.
Wow. You let your principal work for you and still have enough cash to buy a house out of pocket without selling equities or other assets..
I wish I could do that.
As for planning, we have been looking for the perfect house for 15 months. It finally came along and we jumped on it. And since we were able to do that, I think I planned it just about as well as possible during these turbulent times.
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Wow. You let your principal work for you and still have enough cash to buy a house out of pocket without selling equities or other assets..
I wish I could do that.
As for planning, we have been looking for the perfect house for 15 months. It finally came along and we jumped on it. And since we were able to do that, I think I planned it just about as well as possible during these turbulent times.
Yeah I think you just had unlucky timing. You couldn't have foreseen Trump would announce tariffs on that day and the market would react like it did and all that happened to occur just after you signed the contract to buy the house in 10 days, which you are right to jump on the right house when it comes along. You made the decision based on the information you had at the time.
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Yeah I think you just had unlucky timing. You couldn't have foreseen Trump would announce tariffs on that day and the market would react like it did and all that happened to occur just after you signed the contract to buy the house in 10 days, which you are right to jump on the right house when it comes along. You made the decision based on the information you had at the time.
To be clear, there are work arounds for such situations. I would have tapped a line of credit short term for the cash, then paid it off when conditions were right to minimize loss.
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Wow. You let your principal work for you and still have enough cash to buy a house out of pocket without selling equities or other assets..
I wish I could do that.
As for planning, we have been looking for the perfect house for 15 months. It finally came along and we jumped on it. And since we were able to do that, I think I planned it just about as well as possible during these turbulent times.
I don't know the details of your deal, wouldn't taking a mortgage while you wait for the market to recover had been an option?
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My niece and nephew-in-law are in a similar boat. They put their house up for sale thinking it would move quickly but it hasn’t. They were going to use the proceeds to buy their new house and have already packed up to move. But they flat refuse to get a mortgage for the new house. They are terrified of debt I guess. Apparently they have enough equity to buy the house outright after the other one sells but don’t want to even get a temporary bridge loan. I don’t get it.
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I don't know the details of your deal, wouldn't taking a mortgage while you wait for the market to recover had been an option?
It would have been an option, and I did consider it,
But it would have been expensive in itself (closing costs).
And it would have taken longer.
I got a good deal on the house because I could close in 10 days. They had other, better offers contingent on financing that would have taken longer, but they had also already bought another house and wanted a quick closing.
Lucifer is partly right. With better planning (ie, if I could have predicted the future) I could have handled it better. But as it is, I'm getting a better, bigger house in a better location and pocketing quite a chunk of money in the deal. I am going from almost an acre to about a third of an acre, but that big yard was about to kill me anyway.
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My niece and nephew-in-law are in a similar boat. They put their house up for sale thinking it would move quickly but it hasn’t. They were going to use the proceeds to buy their new house and have already packed up to move. But they flat refuse to get a mortgage for the new house. They are terrified of debt I guess. Apparently they have enough equity to buy the house outright after the other one sells but don’t want to even get a temporary bridge loan. I don’t get it.
I do. Perhaps it is because i grew up poor because my Mother and Stepfather were always borrowing more money than they could afford. I have an aversion to debt unless it is absolutely necessary and the terms are in my favor. I even paid off a zero percen auto loan early because I hate debt.
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I do. Perhaps it is because i grew up poor because my Mother and Stepfather were always borrowing more money than they could afford. I have an aversion to debt unless it is absolutely necessary and the terms are in my favor. I even paid off a zero percen auto loan early because I hate debt.
With a 10 day turnaround I can see not risking losing the deal. Can also see hangups from childhood never going away. I have a few.
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That is logical, if you think everyone should do like you think they should and take the same risks you would. And even if true, those idiots still VOTE.
I don't like losing enough imaginary money to buy an imaginary airplane in a just couple of days, but I'll survive without a few extra airplanes. What I'm worried about is who gets the votes in two years. Or four, but at my age I don't make plans much further out than that.
Understand, and that's reasonable.
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Oil is around $60/barrel, the Dow is up to around 40,000. Down from its peak of 44,000 but recovering nicely. The stock market in general (my stocks at least) and the economy seem to be doing well. What am I missing about how Trump is destroying the world?
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Oil is around $60/barrel, the Dow is up to around 40,000. Down from its peak of 44,000 but recovering nicely. The stock market in general (my stocks at least) and the economy seem to be doing well. What am I missing about how Trump is destroying the world?
I hope you are right and I am wrong.
My fear is that unless something turns around soon, 2026 and 2028 could turn into disaster.
The idea of who gives a shit if our allies hate us or don't trust is misguided.
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A Tucker Carlson interview about China and tariffs....
https://x.com/i/status/1908292249471119418
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I hope you are right and I am wrong.
My fear is that unless something turns around soon, 2026 and 2028 could turn into disaster.
The idea of who gives a shit if our allies hate us or don't trust is misguided.
You're misguided. Trump is negotiating with countries that have abused our trust for decades.
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You're misguided. Trump is negotiating with countries that have abused our trust for decades.
Other than China, it would help to name the other countries and the nature of their abuse. To my knowledge Trump himself has never offered specifics. If you can fill in the gaps of knowledge that would be appreciated.
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Other than China, it would help to name the other countries and the nature of their abuse. To my knowledge Trump himself has never offered specifics. If you can fill in the gaps of knowledge that would be appreciated.
That is pure bullshit.
President Trump explained tariff inequities multiple times. What you say about those inequities is sheer partisan bullshit.
Don’t demand I do your home work.
Set aside your bullshit leftist ideology and look it up yourself.
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A Tucker Carlson interview about China and tariffs....
https://x.com/i/status/1908292249471119418
Brilliant. Here’s the long version. Well worth it.
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That is pure bullshit.
President Trump explained tariff inequities multiple times. What you say about those inequities is sheer partisan bullshit.
Wasn't talking to you, bozo. So tell me, how many of the economic inequities Trump claims others committed against the US have never been committed by the US against others? We did not have tariffs prior to Trump? We did not and do not subsidize favored industries? Does Trump's rhetoric mention any of this so as to not pass the U.S. off as a free market saint?
Don’t demand I do your home work.
Since I was responding to someone else I wasn't asking you to do shit.
Set aside your bullshit leftist ideology and look it up yourself.
Says the man defending a US president attempting central economic manipulation and planning on a global scale.
You defend a principal because you haven't any principles to defend.
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Wasn't talking to you, bozo. So tell me, how many of the economic inequities Trump claims others committed against the US have never been committed by the US against others? We did not have tariffs prior to Trump? We did not and do not subsidize favored industries? Does Trump's rhetoric mention any of this so as to not pass the U.S. off as a free market saint?
Since I was responding to someone else I wasn't asking you to do shit.Says the man defending a US president attempting central economic manipulation and planning on a global scale.
You defend a principal because you haven't any principles to defend.
It’s kinda the other way around, if you listen to the whole Lighthizer video I just posted. He’s actually trying to reverse the global (centralized) policies that hollowed out our middle class and has transferred much of our wealth out of the hands of Americans. Our situation is actually a national security emergency.
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Poor jimmy can’t get anyone to tell him he is the smartest person in the room, again.
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It’s kinda the other way around, if you listen to the whole Lighthizer video I just posted. He’s actually trying to reverse the global (centralized) policies that hollowed out our middle class and has transferred much of our wealth out of the hands of Americans. Our situation is actually a national security emergency.
What utter nonsense. That is rationalization for Trump's actions after-the-fact founded on false claims.
The US holds more wealth than any other country in the world. Roughly 30% of the wealth of the world while having only 4.2% of the world's population.
Because it is Trump, an increase of taxes on the middle class by a central figure is OK by his acolytes. And now someone claims that same taxation really adds wealth back to that same middle class. Um, WTF? If Biden or Harris were doing this tariff shit the problem would be painfully self-evident.
P.S. Try listening to Ben Shapiro on tariffs rather than anyone Tucker Carlson interviews. Lighthizer is trained as a lawyer, not an economist, and so has a slick tongue trained to persuade.
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Poor jimmy can’t get anyone to tell him he is the smartest person in the room, again.
Jim isn't the smartest person in the room. That would be Rush. Jim is maybe #2 or 3.
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What utter nonsense. That is rationalization for Trump's actions after-the-fact founded on false claims.
The US holds more wealth than any other country in the world. Roughly 30% of the wealth of the world while having only 4.2% of the world's population.
Because it is Trump, an increase of taxes on the middle class by a central figure is OK by his acolytes. And now someone claims that same taxation really adds wealth back to that same middle class. Um, WTF? If Biden or Harris were doing this tariff shit the problem would be painfully self-evident.
P.S. Try listening to Ben Shapiro on tariffs rather than anyone Tucker Carlson interviews. Lighthizer is trained as a lawyer, not an economist, and so has a slick tongue trained to persuade.
Have you actually listened to the whole video?
The problem is you and other ideological libertarians (not that there’s anything wrong with that) are stuck on the concept of “free trade” as being best for everyone, but you haven’t kept up with history. It is best, to a point, but there is a cost.
The problem is, due to the rapid advancement of technology such as container shipping, which upscaled very fast from the 50s to the 80s, trade went from a few luxury items you couldn’t grow at home, (or a necessary thing for small countries with few resources) to materials, parts and finished products of virtually every single thing we need every day for our very survival.
Which means we have given away our self sufficiency, and with it, the skills to make all the things necessary for survival or self defense. But it also resulted in hollowing out our middle class. I never said most or all of our wealth was taken out of our hands, I said much of it. That wealth that we still have? It skews more to the rich. In real terms the middle and working class are losing ground.
As for tariffs being a tax on the middle class, are you following along? Tariffs are not an end, they are part of a complex strategy to unwind decades of disastrous decision making by other erstwhile presidents. If you give the plan a chance you will find out that it includes drastic income tax cuts, like zero for under $200k a year. And the return of high paying jobs, actually making something tangible you can be proud of, instead of working at a service job such as an orderly in a nursing home.
The tariff situation we have is the result of “free trade” in the sense that other countries set their terms, manipulated their currencies, and engaged in unfair practices. Trump talks about “fair trade” but what Lighthizer says is we need balanced trade. We’ve given away almost all of our domestic manufacturing. That “giant sucking sound” happened.
We need to get some of our self sufficiency back. It’s quite scandalous that our homeland has gotten itself into this predicament. Whether Trump will succeed in all of this is another matter but are you seriously suggesting we should keep things as they are, rely on cheap foreign crap forever? Do you expect to not have short term pain as we try to regain manufacturing?
Yes it would be nice to do it more gradually but Trump doesn’t have that luxury. Unlike what the news is telling you, he is not declaring himself permanent dictator. The problem is he is the only one uniquely able to stand against the tsunami of resistance. He needs to get the ball rolling fast in the right direction because whoever his successor is will need positive results to back him or the commies will start winning elections again.
I know the argument is he will cause the commies, excuse me, Democrats, to win in 2026 and 2028 because of the disruption, but we have to take that risk because if we don’t fix this what difference does it make? The soul of America is dying.
I wasn’t aware Ben Shapiro was an economist, but guess what? I am. Not that that means anything, so is Krugman and he’s the biggest fool on the planet.
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Have you actually listened to the whole video?
The problem is you and other ideological libertarians (not that there’s anything wrong with that) are stuck on the concept of “free trade” as being best for everyone, but you haven’t kept up with history. It is best, to a point, but there is a cost.
The problem is, due to the rapid advancement of technology such as container shipping, which upscaled very fast from the 50s to the 80s, trade went from a few luxury items you couldn’t grow at home, (or a necessary thing for small countries with few resources) to materials, parts and finished products of virtually every single thing we need every day for our very survival.
Which means we have given away our self sufficiency, and with it, the skills to make all the things necessary for survival or self defense. But it also resulted in hollowing out our middle class. I never said most or all of our wealth was taken out of our hands, I said much of it. That wealth that we still have? It skews more to the rich. In real terms the middle and working class are losing ground.
As for tariffs being a tax on the middle class, are you following along? Tariffs are not an end, they are part of a complex strategy to unwind decades of disastrous decision making by other erstwhile presidents. If you give the plan a chance you will find out that it includes drastic income tax cuts, like zero for under $200k a year. And the return of high paying jobs, actually making something tangible you can be proud of, instead of working at a service job such as an orderly in a nursing home.
The tariff situation we have is the result of “free trade” in the sense that other countries set their terms, manipulated their currencies, and engaged in unfair practices. Trump talks about “fair trade” but what Lighthizer says is we need balanced trade. We’ve given away almost all of our domestic manufacturing. That “giant sucking sound” happened.
We need to get some of our self sufficiency back. It’s quite scandalous that our homeland has gotten itself into this predicament. Whether Trump will succeed in all of this is another matter but are you seriously suggesting we should keep things as they are, rely on cheap foreign crap forever? Do you expect to not have short term pain as we try to regain manufacturing?
Yes it would be nice to do it more gradually but Trump doesn’t have that luxury. Unlike what the news is telling you, he is not declaring himself permanent dictator. The problem is he is the only one uniquely able to stand against the tsunami of resistance. He needs to get the ball rolling fast in the right direction because whoever his successor is will need positive results to back him or the commies will start winning elections again.
I know the argument is he will cause the commies, excuse me, Democrats, to win in 2026 and 2028 because of the disruption, but we have to take that risk because if we don’t fix this what difference does it make? The soul of America is dying.
I wasn’t aware Ben Shapiro was an economist, but guess what? I am. Not that that means anything, so is Krugman and he’s the biggest fool on the planet.
^^^^^°^^This! All of it! Well said Rush.
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^^^^^°^^This! All of it! Well said Rush.
Thank you but we will see how it all turns out. Thomas Sowell himself has spoken out more or less in agreement with Jim and he’s THE Uber-economist. Never thought I’d disagree with him. But he's in his 90s now and might possibly suffer from sticky retention of earlier paradigms which is definitely a thing with old people. Prior to the 90s and 2000s the ill effects of globalism were not obvious but we were enjoying the great part - way cheaper goods. The 90s and 2000s were when the floodgates really opened up and by then Sowell may have been set in his ways. Bless his heart.
The theory of free trade is spot on, but who could have predicted the technological and shipping advances of the late 20th century that enabled the utter disaggregation - segmentation - of making a thing and scattering all the individual processes all over the planet. It’s no longer, “You sell me bananas and I’ll sell you cars.” It’s now, I can’t make a car without steel from China, chips from Taiwan, upholstery from wherever, rubber from - well we always had to import rubber - etc. etc.
If we had to suddenly depend on ourselves to make everything needed for say, a necessary war, we’d be up the creek without a paddle.
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Jim isn't the smartest person in the room. That would be Rush. Jim is maybe #2 or 3.
Jim is a pseudo intellectual. When he post you get to see what's known as the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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Have you actually listened to the whole video?
It's 96 minutes long and your summary indicates the video needs some rebutting. I'd have to commit several hours to watching, researching, and composing a response. But the number of up-votes to your post suggests there is almost no audience on this forum for such a rebuttal post.
That said, I'd still watch the video and post my thoughts on it if you promised to reply to that post and respond to my points and rebuttals. Otherwise not worth my effort.
It doesn't help that just today I saw Tucker Carlson say the following about changing the only highway in the U.S. with distances in kilometers markings back to distances in miles:
“They’re not using gallons and miles in North Korea. They’re using the metric system—so are Iran and China. I can’t imagine why we’d want any of that in our country,” Tucker Carlson said in an interview.
There are a couple good reasons to argue to change to miles in this specific case, but Tucker offers the stupidest fucking reason I can imagine. I hesitate to give his channel a minute of my time, let alone 96.
I wasn’t aware Ben Shapiro was an economist, but guess what? I am. Not that that means anything, so is Krugman and he’s the biggest fool on the planet.
AOC also has an undergraduate degree in economics - as did Ronald Reagan. And Elon Musk. Shrug.
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It's 96 minutes long and your summary indicates the video needs some rebutting. I'd have to commit several hours to watching, researching, and composing a response. But the number of up-votes to your post suggests there is almost no audience on this forum for such a rebuttal post.
That said, I'd still watch the video and post my thoughts on it if you promised to reply to that post and respond to my points and rebuttals. Otherwise not worth my effort.
It doesn't help that just today I saw Tucker Carlson say the following about changing the only highway in the U.S. with distances in kilometers markings back to distances in miles:
“They’re not using gallons and miles in North Korea. They’re using the metric system—so are Iran and China. I can’t imagine why we’d want any of that in our country,” Tucker Carlson said in an interview.
There are a couple good reasons to argue to change to miles in this specific case, but Tucker offers the stupidest fucking reason I can imagine. I hesitate to give his channel a minute of my time, let alone 96.
AOC also has an undergraduate degree in economics - as did Ronald Reagan. And Elon Musk. Shrug.
Only put the time into it if it’s fun or rewarding for you in some way. I myself am swamped with work and really should not spend as much time on this stuff as I do, but it is fun and rewarding… in every way except making me money.
Tucker does say some cringe things. I don’t always agree with him but he did say something in that video, I think it was that video, that was insightful.
He said, for 2000 years the world has been basically divided into the Christian West, and the non-Christian East, which would include the Mid East of course as they went careening off into Islam. (Maybe Africa is the Stone Age up for grabs). He says, Russia is part of the Christian West believe it or not.
We have a lot more in common with the Russian people and culture (not the communist government!) than either we, or the Russians, have in common with the Chinese. We really need to ally with them, if warily.
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We have a lot more in common with the Russian people and culture (not the communist government!) than either we, or the Russians, have in common with the Chinese. We really need to ally with them, if warily.
Yeah, 'bout that....
We are rushing headlong into it. The Russians, if anything, are slowly moving away from it.
They're not trustworthy, but when the Dems are in charge, neither are we.
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Yeah, 'bout that....
We are rushing headlong into it. The Russians, if anything, are slowly moving away from it.
They're not trustworthy, but when the Dems are in charge, neither are we.
Exactly! The commie left is now our left. They really did infiltrate. Got into our schools and taught our kids. Now we have a big problem. We have a couple of young generations to de-program, and we have to get the Marxists out of our educational system.
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Exactly! The commie left is now our left. They really did infiltrate. Got into our schools and taught our kids. Now we have a big problem. We have a couple of young generations to de-program, and we have to get the Marxists out of our educational system.
You're not going to de-program them. We just have to make sure we minimize, or block their damage. We can try to change these institutions by showing how destructive Leftism is, so future generations don't go down the same road.
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You're not going to de-program them. We just have to make sure we minimize, or block their damage. We can try to change these institutions by showing how destructive Leftism is, so future generations don't go down the same road.
Some come around on their own. The internet now thwarts complete isolation into a cult although the internet itself can have cult bubbles.
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Some come around on their own. The internet now thwarts complete isolation into a cult although the internet itself can have cult bubbles.
I really like my cult bubble.