PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Jim Logajan on March 11, 2025, 03:08:38 PM
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An event that I vividly recall only because, at the time, I found it amazing and relatively economically literate. Not sure what changed Trump - several possibilities come to mind.
June 9, 2018: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44423072 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44423072)
Trump at G7: US president calls for end to tariffs and trade barriers
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"No tariffs, no barriers. That's the way it should be. And no subsidies. I even said, 'no tariffs'," the US president said, describing his meetings with fellow Group of Seven leaders as positive "on the need to have fair and reciprocal trade".
"The United States has been taken advantage of for decades and decades," he continued, describing America as a "piggy bank that everyone keeps robbing".
Then on July 24, 2018: https://apnews.com/article/9f26e4a32322470fa290d4607cc1089b (https://apnews.com/article/9f26e4a32322470fa290d4607cc1089b)
The Latest: Trump suggests no tariffs between US, Europe
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President Donald Trump says he’ll propose to European officials on Wednesday that both sides drop all tariffs, barriers and subsidies.
Trump has floated the idea in the past, but he tweeted Tuesday night that he doubts the Europeans will go for the idea.
The president says on Twitter: “That would finally be called Free Market and Fair Trade! Hope they do it, we are ready - but they won’t!”
Trump tweeted earlier Tuesday that trade partners must either negotiate a fair deal or pay tariffs.
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OK Mr. Van Winkle, wake up from your nap. The world has changed.
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OK Mr. Van Winkle, wake up from your nap. The world has changed.
It sure has.
I used to be proud to be an American.
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I’m still proud to be an American. That’s never changed.
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OK Mr. Van Winkle, wake up from your nap. The world has changed.
Trump was 72 years old when he made those statements in 2018. The world has been through a lot of big changes since 1946 - so he was likely expressing long-established principles he wished were realized, though he knew his wishes were improbable.
It seems unlikely, but the fairest possibility I see is that Trump still believes in international free markets but is resorting to negative Pavlovian conditioning to show the value of no tariffs or government subsidies. Reciprocal tariffs are one bit of evidence in favor of that view.
Otherwise Trump has changed - and on free trade not for the better, in my very humble opinion.
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Trump was 72 years old when he made those statements in 2018. The world has been through a lot of big changes since 1946 - so he was likely expressing long-established principles he wished were realized, though he knew his wishes were improbable.
It seems unlikely, but the fairest possibility I see is that Trump still believes in international free markets but is resorting to negative Pavlovian conditioning to show the value of no tariffs or government subsidies. Reciprocal tariffs are one bit of evidence in favor of that view.
Otherwise Trump has changed - and on free trade not for the better, in my very humble opinion.
I don’t see any change. He’s for fair trade, not unilateral tariffs, except for using tariff threats to get border cooperation.
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Jim, you are SO determined to paint a picture that reflects your politics and ignores reality… again.
I believe in a world of no tariffs and free markets, BUT, our trade partners do not, and have not for generations, taking advantage of American producers in ever expanding ways.
So fuck your obsession with hating President Trump.
Grow up and stop pretending.
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I don’t see any change. He’s for fair trade, not unilateral tariffs, except for using tariff threats to get border cooperation.
He's been demanding control of illegal fentanyl and aliens. And lately claiming how income tax could be replaced with income from tariffs. That appears new - I could find no previous mention by him until last year. Also, neither fentanyl or tariffs appear in his book from 2000. And as pointed out, as recently as 2018 he expressed a desire for trade free of tariffs or subsidies.
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Jim, you are SO determined to paint a picture that reflects your politics and ignores reality… again.
I believe in a world of no tariffs and free markets, BUT, our trade partners do not, and have not for generations, taking advantage of American producers in ever expanding ways.
So fuck your obsession with hating President Trump.
Grow up and stop pretending.
Nothing more real than quoting Trump himself. And then comparing with his current actions.
I've never hated Trump. I don't even hate or dislike you. I do appreciate a man who sticks with his principles, and there is a lot I like about many of Trump's principles. Maybe Trump is acting on behalf of free and fair trade principles, but if so he hasn't mentioned those principles as the reasons for imposing the current round of tariffs. I'd be delighted if that were his hidden goal.
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Is it against libertarian principles to impose equal tariffs rather than always cause American producers to work at a disadvantage???
What is it about America first that offends you, Jim?
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Is it against libertarian principles to impose equal tariffs rather than always cause American producers to work at a disadvantage???
How does another country imposing a tax on its own citizens affect an American producer? That other country's tax doesn't affect the American producer's sales to fellow Americans, nor to sales to people in other countries that don't impose a tariff on American imports. The only losers are the citizens of the country imposing the tariff.
Reciprocal tariffs might work if the objective is to force the other country to reduce its tariffs on its citizens - but if it was effective it would have been done a long time ago. The world is rife with tariffs. Creating a tariff on imports from that other country now impoverishes citizens of both countries and the leaders of the two countries are laughing all the way to their banks.
What is it about America first that offends you, Jim?
What is it about free trade that offends you?
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Sorry but Free Trade does not mean American industry exports are charged excessive tariffs, while foreign imports are not equally burdened.
Some trade partners have to be taught not to unfairly punish American goods, and previous administrations have not had the courage to do so.
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An event that I vividly recall only because, at the time, I found it amazing and relatively economically literate. Not sure what changed Trump - several possibilities come to mind.
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Trump tweeted earlier Tuesday that trade partners must either negotiate a fair deal or pay tariffs.[/i]
Reset your frame of reference with Trump. He is a deal maker. Everything he does is about leverage to close a deal.
Does a change of mind about tariffs make more sense now?
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An event that I vividly recall only because, at the time, I found it amazing and relatively economically literate. Not sure what changed Trump - several possibilities come to mind.
June 9, 2018: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44423072 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44423072)
Trump at G7: US president calls for end to tariffs and trade barriers
...
"No tariffs, no barriers. That's the way it should be. And no subsidies. I even said, 'no tariffs'," the US president said, describing his meetings with fellow Group of Seven leaders as positive "on the need to have fair and reciprocal trade".
I don't see any change of mind at all. He's against tariffs. All tariffs. So to get rid of the tariffs other countries have on our goods, he puts tariffs on them. End result, removal of all tariffs. When at economic war, use all tools at your disposal. This is one tool to get to where we want to be. Fair trade. And exactly right... tariffs (although he hates them) are simply leverage to close a fair trade deal.
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Can anyone explain to me specifically what Canada has done to cause Trump to treat them worse than he treats our enemies?
I'm for most of the things he is doing, but it seems to me he has a little problem with enemy identification.
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Can anyone explain to me specifically what Canada has done to cause Trump to treat them worse than he treats our enemies?
I'm for most of the things he is doing, but it seems to me he has a little problem with enemy identification.
Having a fruity pussy for a leader.
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I see this as nothing more than friendly rivalry and teasing on the way to a much more beneficial and fair trade agreement and cooperation. They are doing some things we don't like. We're now doing some things that they don't like. In a week or so all will be well, we'll hug and be prosperous together.
It's the countries that he's being quiet about that have to worry.
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Having a fruity pussy for a leader.
That too.
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Auto tariffs are four times our reciprocal amount which is why Chrysler went there to begin with.
Other tariffs are also outsized and previous administrations did nothing to correct them.
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Reset your frame of reference with Trump. He is a deal maker. Everything he does is about leverage to close a deal.
Does a change of mind about tariffs make more sense now?
^^^^^^^This!!!
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I see this as nothing more than friendly rivalry and teasing on the way to a much more beneficial and fair trade agreement and cooperation. They are doing some things we don't like. We're now doing some things that they don't like. In a week or so all will be well, we'll hug and be prosperous together.
It's the countries that he's being quiet about that have to worry.
Yes. The U.S., Canada, and Mexico, taking up the entire North American continent, are deeply tied together in mutually beneficial interaction. I audit rail freight for a job. There are millions of rail cars per year (several thousand per day) crossing those two borders. There is no chance any of the three of our countries are going to blow up these relationships. That would be catastrophic for all of us.
It’s more like we are siblings in a family quarreling amongst ourselves. But if a real threat came from the other hemisphere we would band together to defend our continent and each other. The U.S. is the most powerful by far, like the big brother to torture the analogy, and sometimes big brothers act like bullies.
It’ll sort itself out. People need to stop hyperventilating over it.
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It's all the hyper short-term thinking. Trump does something and the entire TDS community goes from 0 to 100 on the crazy meter. But wait a day or so and it sorts itself out for the better. Like investing. Investing in a stock for anything less than a year is just gambling. Trump is playing a much longer game than most are used to. And the 24/7 MSM news can't adjust.
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I still agree with most of what Trump is doing, but he is acting like a bully when it isn't necessary, and I disagree with that.
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I still agree with most of what Trump is doing, but he is acting like a bully when it isn't necessary, and I disagree with that.
My personality is very non-confrontational. In person anyway, I don’t know how I come across online.
But anyway, because of that, I do find some of his bullying cringe. But, knowing that I can’t pull off that kind of bullying, and knowing that it is sometimes effective at demonstrating dominance, I give the benefit of the doubt and hope he knows what he’s doing.
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When I played high-school football there is one game I remember like it was yesterday. I was a freshman and during our homecoming game I scored two rushing touchdowns. With about 7 seconds left in the game on second down, we were down 15 to 14. The coach decided to go for a 40 yard field goal rather than risk having the clock run out on us. Our kicker's longest field goal had been 39 yards.
I thought WTF is Coach doing? We had enough time to run one more play and at least get closer. I knew that he knew more than I did but he was still scaring the hell out of me.
I just hope Coach Trump knows what he is doing and that this turns out better than our game did.
I didn't get to play in my Jr. or Sr. years because I only had a few minutes after the final bell to get to work.