PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on August 18, 2025, 05:23:48 PM
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It could actually happen this time.
https://apnews.com/live/donald-trump-news-updates-8-18-2025#00000198-bf8a-d244-abbf-ff8bad850000
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Hope so, but Zelenskyy is the wild card.
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They're both wild cards (Zelensky and Putin).
It appears the proposal is for Ukraine to cede land in and around the Donbas region, and in return Russia agrees to allow Article 5 style security arrangements between Europe, the US, and Ukraine.
I can't see Zelensky getting on board with the former. He's said recently that their constitution forbids him from allowing that.
And I can't see Putin agreeing to a Ukraine with troops from NATO nations on the ground, even if they aren't actual NATO forces.
I hope I'm wrong. Maybe something happened today to change Zelensky's mind, but if so, I missed it.
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They're both wild cards (Zelensky and Putin).
It appears the proposal is for Ukraine to cede land in and around the Donbas region, and in return Russia agrees to allow Article 5 style security arrangements between Europe, the US, and Ukraine.
I can't see Zelensky getting on board with the former. He's said recently that their constitution forbids him from allowing that.
And I can't see Putin agreeing to a Ukraine with troops from NATO nations on the ground, even if they aren't actual NATO forces.
I hope I'm wrong. Maybe something happened today to change Zelensky's mind, but if so, I missed it.
Yeah, I heard that there’s a crack in Zelensky’s resolve about the land. It seems very plain it’s a stalemate there, Russia can hold it forever, especially if the U.S. quits giving Ukraine funding, Ukraine is running out of young men to go die for it, and the residents of Donbas actually voted to join Russia. It’s possible Zelensky is being worn down. But he is a wild card, I think more wild than Putin.
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The problem with Zelenskyy is that he declared martial law to keep the billions coming from whoever ran the white house while the Delaware state vegetable was occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and the nit wits in Europe.
He has no welcome waiting for him once the war has ended and he can’t maintain martial law. He thinks he is as popular as castro, but is even more hated by the people and his next stop might up against a brick wall as soon as the war ends.
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Yeah, I heard that there’s a crack in Zelensky’s resolve about the land. It seems very plain it’s a stalemate there, Russia can hold it forever, especially if the U.S. quits giving Ukraine funding, Ukraine is running out of young men to go die for it, and the residents of Donbas actually voted to join Russia. It’s possible Zelensky is being worn down. But he is a wild card, I think more wild than Putin.
It's a tough issue. While that may be true of the inhabitants of Donbas, i saw a poll today that some 70% of Ukrainians in general are against ceding any land. And if it really is a constitutional limitation on presidential authority, Zelensky's hands might be tied.
As to Putin being a wildcard, I meant that there might be some fact that's not been reported, some detail that explains Putin's willingness to accept an Article 5 type arrangement for Ukraine. Possibly limitations on where the peacekeeping forces would be deployed, numbers of troops, etc. Or it could just be a carrot that Putin is dangling to keep the process going, while he keeps attacking Ukraine's cities. If I was going to bet, I would bet carrot. But the optimism I'm hearing from Trump's team and even some analysts makes me wonder if they haven't found some formula that has a chance.
As you said, there's an obvious stalemate there in both sides' basic stance, and it's hard to see how this can end with a deal - unless there's wiggle room, especially on Zelensky's side, that we don't know about yet.
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Here's a sober analysis of the likely outcomes, from WSJ (I hope the "gift" link removed the paywall):
https://www.wsj.com/world/how-will-the-war-in-ukraine-end-two-scenarios-2bcc0d99?st=VJg6FZ&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink (https://www.wsj.com/world/how-will-the-war-in-ukraine-end-two-scenarios-2bcc0d99?st=VJg6FZ&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)
The freezing the lines scenario, de facto Russian control of the occupied territory with no formal recognition that they're part of Russia is a possibility I've heard elsewhere, too. Maybe there's a glimmer of hope there - I'm just afraid that plus the security guarantees will be a nonstarter for Putin.
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Zelensky needs to make a deal to cede Russia the land, then if he's smart get out of Dodge quickly. I'm sure he has a contingency plan to move him, and his family to a neutral country where they can live in luxury with his stolen fortune.
I'm ok with buying the guy off to ensure peace, and end this MIC Welfare War. If there were justice, he probably should be in front of a brick wall, surrounding a cemetery somewhere.
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Here's a sober analysis of the likely outcomes, from WSJ (I hope the "gift" link removed the paywall):
https://www.wsj.com/world/how-will-the-war-in-ukraine-end-two-scenarios-2bcc0d99?st=VJg6FZ&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink (https://www.wsj.com/world/how-will-the-war-in-ukraine-end-two-scenarios-2bcc0d99?st=VJg6FZ&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)
The freezing the lines scenario, de facto Russian control of the occupied territory with no formal recognition that they're part of Russia is a possibility I've heard elsewhere, too. Maybe there's a glimmer of hope there - I'm just afraid that plus the security guarantees will be a nonstarter for Putin.
It must have worked because I had no paywall. Thanks!