PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Number7 on November 12, 2025, 01:19:33 PM
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The Ukraine “Justice” Minister suspended due to $100billion corruption case.
Sounds about right. I wonder how much of that ended up as bribes to the deleware state vegetable and his cabinet of crooks, and how much went to the midget would-be empower bank accounts.
All the opportunity for bribes went out the window when Americans voted by a lot above the margin on democrat fraud to take back the government from the obama/biden fraud machine.
https://nypost.com/2025/11/12/world-news/ukraine-justice-minister-suspended-over-100m-corruption-case-rocking-zelenskys-govt/
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That war would be over if Zelenskyy would have allowed elections and went into exile somewhere.
As long as that little dictator is around there will not be an end to the war, he has too much to lose.
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That war would be over if Zelenskyy would have allowed elections and went into exile somewhere.
As long as that little dictator is around there will not be an end to the war, he has too much to lose.
Like the risk of a firing squad.
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That war would be over if Zelenskyy would have allowed elections and went into exile somewhere.
As long as that little dictator is around there will not be an end to the war, he has too much to lose.
Substitute Putin for Zelenskyy
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Substitute Putin for Zelenskyy
Nope, my comments are directed at Zelenskyy.
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Nope, my comments are directed at Zelenskyy.
For once, I agree with Bob.
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Zelensky is the one dragging out the war.
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Zelensky is the one dragging out the war.
What is his alternative?
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What is his alternative?
Admit defeat and give up the land Russia took.
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Zelenskyy knows once the war is over there will be an election and he is done.
He also realizes he may end up in prison, or worse. He will have to flee and hope some country gives him asylum.
Of course in asylum he’ll have his millions (billions?) to ease the pain.
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Admit defeat and give up the land Russia took.
I don't blame him for not doing that. I would hope our politicians had his spine.
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I don't blame him for not doing that. I would hope our politicians had his spine.
But there comes a point you have to be realistic. Russia is never going to withdraw, and Russia has the resources to keep going indefinitely. Meanwhile a couple hundred of your people per day are dying and four times as many injured. With virtually no gain. It’s pretty much a stalemate.
Tell me where I’m wrong. How do you propose to kick Russia out of Ukraine?
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But there comes a point you have to be realistic. Russia is never going to withdraw, and Russia has the resources to keep going indefinitely. Meanwhile a couple hundred of your people per day are dying and four times as many injured. With virtually no gain. It’s pretty much a stalemate.
Tell me where I’m wrong. How do you propose to kick Russia out of Ukraine?
Perhaps winning is a distant dream. But I sort of remember how we lionized Patrick Henry:
"Give me Liberty,
or Give me Death".
And didn't Ben Franklin have something to say along the same lines about deserving liberty?
I'm sort of surprised Putin hasn't been taken out. Yet. Get him and a few of his hard-line cohorts and the war would be over soon. One way or the other.
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Perhaps winning is a distant dream. But I sort of remember how we lionized Patrick Henry:
"Give me Liberty,
or Give me Death".
And didn't Ben Franklin have something to say along the same lines about deserving liberty?
I'm sort of surprised Putin hasn't been taken out. Yet. Get him and a few of his hard-line cohorts and the war would be over soon. One way or the other.
I understand your sentiment and fully agree, with caveats. Trump himself said in an interview when asked what is the one piece of advice you would give. His response: “Never give up.” This is indeed what you need to win when it looks like the odds are stacked against you.
However another wise man, Thomas Sowell, says, “There are no solutions, only tradeoffs.” There is a cost to not giving up. At some point the cost outweighs the benefit of winning.
The U.S. revolution is a bad comparison. England was an ocean away. Prosecuting a war from the opposite hemisphere is entirely different from a shared land border, many times more difficult and expensive. The colonies not only had a good shot at winning from the start, it was almost predestined, a theme literally written into our lore.
As for Putin being taken out, not gonna happen. His approval rating in Russia is too high.
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As for Putin being taken out, not gonna happen. His approval rating in Russia is too high.
yup - just ask him what his approval rating is.
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yup - just ask him what his approval rating is.
That’s not Putin, it’s an independent poll. The numbers might be inflated a bit due to fears living under an authoritarian regime but the polling is anonymous. Estimates that they overinflate the approval are from 10-20% which still puts Putin well above 50%, way higher than any of our recent presidents which never get out of the 40s. Putins approval is in the 80s.
I think it’s legit because while he is an authoritarian dictator, he is stable. Stability means a lot to people. Better the devil you know.
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There is little likelihood that many people are going to answer that poll with anything derogatory about Putin. Most people, even Russians, would prefer to stay out of Siberian Gulags. We might think our DOJ has been weaponized, but they are amateurs compared to Russia's.
But yeah, if anyone knocked off Putin, the average Russian would become enraged due to life long indoctrination and the tribal mentality that makes people unite around their own homeland. I'd have been pissed if a Russian killed Obama or Biden.
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There is little likelihood that many people are going to answer that poll with anything derogatory about Putin. Most people, even Russians, would prefer to stay out of Siberian Gulags. We might think our DOJ has been weaponized, but they are amateurs compared to Russia's.
But yeah, if anyone knocked off Putin, the average Russian would become enraged due to life long indoctrination and the tribal mentality that makes people unite around their own homeland. I'd have been pissed if a Russian killed Obama or Biden.
Saying they approve of him doesn’t mean they love him. The loyalty is real but it’s pragmatic, not ideological. They might actually prefer liberty and democracy but life under Putin is “good enough” and any change risks chaos. Generational memories of the chaos of the 20th century, then immediate memories of the post-Soviet chaos has them loathe to rock the boat - again.
Therefore saying they approve of Putin isn’t a lie. It’s collective agreement on the surface to keep things steady as we go, while individually deep down they recognize they don’t have the liberty we do in the West. So you’re right, it’s tribal. Putin might be an evil dictator, but he’s our evil dictator.
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I think you are not taking into consideration the difference between public statements and private thoughts.
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I think you are not taking into consideration the difference between public statements and private thoughts.
I literally said they approve on the surface but deep down wish for something different.
What you and Joe are trying to say is that the surface approval is a complete lie. What you aren’t taking into consideration is 1) They are manipulated by propaganda pushing them to favor Putin and 2) Things aren’t that bad. Compared to Western standards they are, but compared to a lot of their own history, things are pretty good.
And 3) We in the West tend toward wishful thinking that everybody else on the planet wants to be like us. So we look at Russians through the lens of our own classical liberalism, cheered on by a few escapees from behind the Iron Curtain. Nothing wrong with that: Our side is still right. Capitalism is better than a centrally managed economy. But Russia today is not Russia under Stalin. And the lesson from our adventures in the Mid-East should have taught us that no, they don’t all want to be like us.
Most recently Russians are alarmed at western woke ideology, the LBGT+ crap and extreme feminism; what they view as moral decadence. This is much like the Muslim world’s criticism of the West’s “freedoms”, and I must say, they’re not wrong. Social conservatism is important. Admittedly, upholding traditional values is another propaganda point in Russia but that doesn’t change the sincerity of Russian people’s distaste for that sort of crap.
The one bad thing is the war. If it continues to drag on Putin’s support may decline - may. Or the reverse could happen if the Russians feel entitled to Ukrainian land, and/or they fear the encroachment of NATO, in which case they might rally around Putin. Much like we rallied around GW at similar levels (80s) right after 9/11.
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I literally said they approve on the surface but deep down wish for something different.
What you and Joe are trying to say is that the surface approval is a complete lie. What you aren’t taking into consideration is 1) They are manipulated by propaganda pushing them to favor Putin
I'm absolutely not ignoring manipulation propaganda (after all, look at how sucesseful it is here in the US). My position is that the people in Russia are not complete morons.
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What you and Joe are trying to say is that the surface approval is a complete lie.
That's not exactly what I said. In some cases what they say are honest opinions. In others, it may be a complete lie. But how do you tell the difference?
Example:
Ask random people, "Are you male"? If you say "no", you just may wind up in Siberia.
Everyone says "yes".
About half the people are lying.
(yeah, I know. Stupid example but its the first thing I came up with).
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Maybe Zelensky will be the one to have an accident?
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That's not exactly what I said. In some cases what they say are honest opinions. In others, it may be a complete lie. But how do you tell the difference?
Example:
Ask random people, "Are you male"? If you say "no", you just may wind up in Siberia.
Everyone says "yes".
About half the people are lying.
(yeah, I know. Stupid example but its the first thing I came up with).
Okay it’s a stupid example. Not stupid so much as completely inapplicable.
You assume everyone gives the answer the dictator wants, but if 86% approved of Putin, 14% weren’t afraid to give the wrong answer.
In your example half the people are lying (or are delusional and don’t know their own sex) but that doesn’t mean half the approving Russians are lying. Some may be.
Ending up in Siberia because you answered one question on an anonymous poll isn’t a big risk. Yes it’s sort of a risk and I don’t blame Russians for being paranoid. But I would think you’d have to get a little more on the radar, visibly, like hand out pamphlets and attend meetings, to get in that much trouble.
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I'm absolutely not ignoring manipulation propaganda (after all, look at how sucesseful it is here in the US). My position is that the people in Russia are not complete morons.
What are you talking about? Most people everywhere are complete morons.
;D