PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Lucifer on December 12, 2016, 02:40:46 PM

Title: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 12, 2016, 02:40:46 PM
There!  There it is!

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/completed-wisconsin-recount-widens-donald-trump-s-lead-by-votes/article_3f61c6ac-5b18-5c27-bf38-e537146bbcdd.html
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 12, 2016, 02:58:07 PM
The Russians clearly hacked the recount in addition to the original vote!!!

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 12, 2016, 03:02:00 PM
The Russians clearly hacked the recount in addition to the original vote!!!

Cunning little devils aren't they!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 12, 2016, 03:12:50 PM
Cunning little devils aren't they!

Does the possibility of Russian state sponsored meddling in an American election register even the slightest bit of concern in your mind? 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 12, 2016, 03:16:48 PM
Does the possibility of Russian state sponsored meddling in an American election register even the slightest bit of concern in your mind?

Yep.  But given the current administration's "transparency" and the DNC with their propaganda arm of the MSM, call me skeptical.

Until I see something that confirms this could have happened I'm not going to blindly go along with the MSM and their "message".
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 12, 2016, 03:29:42 PM
Here's just another hit piece carrying the DNC Talking Points of today:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/clinton-campaign-backs-call-for-intelligence-briefing-before-electoral-college-vote-232512

 Get this:

Quote
“The bipartisan electors' letter raises very grave issues involving our national security,” Podesta said in a statement Monday. “Electors have a solemn responsibility under the Constitution and we support their efforts to have their questions addressed.”

 Bipartisan?  You call 9 democrats and one republican bipartisan?  Bullshit.

 And excuse me, since when has it become the procedure of the EC to review "intelligence briefings" before convening to vote?  Again, I call bullshit.

 The liberal progressives have cried Clinton got more votes, then Jill Stein pulled her recount scam and that imploded, now they are resorting to this. 

 God only knows what they will resort to next week.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on December 12, 2016, 03:39:13 PM
Liberals will NEVER admit defeat. This is all about trying to create a media agenda that never allows Donald Trump to serve as the legitimate president. Think how pathetically the liberals cling to the George W. Bush bullshit line. It's the same shit, different president.
Poor little snowflakes didn't get their way, therefore they have to create what they believe is a legitimate reason to hate Trump.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 12, 2016, 04:58:34 PM
Does the possibility of Russian state sponsored meddling in an American election register even the slightest bit of concern in your mind?
Yes, if I thought it was real.  But I put this in the same realm as the fake video that caused Benghazi.  It is just more lies from a corrupt regime trying to deflect blame from themselves.

If it were Trump making the claim, would YOU put any credence into the claim without further proof?

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 12, 2016, 06:18:21 PM
Does the possibility of Russian state sponsored meddling in an American election register even the slightest bit of concern in your mind?

Only if it benefits the mean republicans.

Does it register at all to you that the liberals haven't cared about foreign meddling when it was them raking in the brib^H^H^H^Hdonations?

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 12, 2016, 07:18:02 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-intelligence-idUSKBN14204E?il=0
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 12, 2016, 09:50:34 PM
So what exactly did the Russians hack?  There are only voters, and vote counters.  Did they hack the people voting?  How is that possible?  Did they hack the people counting the votes?  Did they hack every voting machine in the country, even though many are manual?   
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 12, 2016, 10:19:48 PM
So what exactly did the Russians hack?  There are only voters, and vote counters.  Did they hack the people voting?  How is that possible?  Did they hack the people counting the votes?  Did they hack every voting machine in the country, even though many are manual?

They hacked the DNC and Clinton.  Which is why there are so many DNC hacks and Clinton hacks.  :)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 12, 2016, 10:36:07 PM
So what exactly did the Russians hack?  There are only voters, and vote counters.  Did they hack the people voting?  How is that possible?  Did they hack the people counting the votes?  Did they hack every voting machine in the country, even though many are manual?
From what I can tell, it doesn't matter. Because hack. Because Russia. Because Trump. Because Hillary should have won.

Is it even possible to have a robust and honest investigation of any accusation by any branch of any government institution?

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 13, 2016, 06:02:56 AM
Kind of funny how the DNC and Clintons tried the same shit on Trump that they did to Herman Cain and it didn't work.  Maybe people are wising up and get the that it was made up shit by women the DNC got to say things.  Folks are getting tired of the shit they pull every election.


Did the Russians convince Hillary that calling half the country deplorables was a good move?


Did the Russians convince Donna Brazille that passing debate questions on the Hillary was a good move?


Did the Russians convince Hillary not to campaign in some battleground states?


Did the Russians convince Hillary to have rallies with only a few hundred supporters while Trump was holding rallies with 10,000+?


Did the Russians convince Hillary that staying in seclusion for days at a time while Trump was having rallied with a packed house was a good idea?


BTW, the Republicans picked up another seat in the Senate this weekend with the runoff in Louisiana.



Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 13, 2016, 06:14:11 AM
Did the Russians convince Obama to:

Have eight years of economic malaise
Preach divisiveness, and identity politics
Alienate middle income earners
Alienate white people
Side with criminals and cop killers
Bring down our standing in the world
Fight un-winnable wars worldwide with impossible rules of engagement
Kill four Americans in Benghazi including an ambassador
Over regulate
Over tax
Politicize the IRS, DOJ, FBI, CIA, EPA, Interior, etc

 
Have Hillary campaign on four more years of extending Obama's failed policies, then complain that it didn't work, and that we need even more liberal/progressive nonsense. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mr Pou on December 13, 2016, 06:21:19 AM
Did the Russians convince Obama to:

Have eight years of economic malaise
Preach divisiveness, and identity politics
Alienate middle income earners
Alienate white people
Side with criminals and cop killers
Bring down our standing in the world
Fight un-winnable wars worldwide with impossible rules of engagement
Kill four Americans in Benghazi including an ambassador
Over regulate
Over tax
Politicize the IRS, DOJ, FBI, CIA, EPA, Interior, etc

 
Have Hillary campaign on four more years of extending Obama's failed policies, then complain that it didn't work, and that we need even more liberal/progressive nonsense.

I think the young were in love with the terms "fundamental transformation" and "hope and change" without ever investigating exactly what those things really meant. They just wanted to be in on the ground floor of these feel goody things.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 13, 2016, 06:22:14 AM
BTW, the Republicans picked up another seat in the Senate this weekend with the runoff in Louisiana.

See!  See!  More evidence of Russian hacking!!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 13, 2016, 06:31:37 AM
This is just another Obama/Hillary/DNC and MEDIA cabal to UNDERMINE the American people.  I agree with Bolton that it is a False Flag.  I want a full investigation, just like I wanted the failed recount that found more votes for Trump!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 13, 2016, 06:33:50 AM
This is just another Obama/Hillary/DNC and MEDIA cabal to UNDERMINE the American people.  I agree with Bolton that it is a False Flag.  I want a full investigation, just like I wanted the failed recount that found more votes for Trump!

You know the Russians secretly inserted those extra votes for Trump in Wisconson............
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mr Pou on December 13, 2016, 06:45:55 AM
This is just another Obama/Hillary/DNC and MEDIA cabal to UNDERMINE the American people.  I agree with Bolton that it is a False Flag.  I want a full investigation, just like I wanted the failed recount that found more votes for Trump!

Just another deflection tactic, if people are concerned about potential Russian hacking, they're not looking at HRC/Clinton foundation/e-mails for shady dealings. A masterful deflection, actually. Recounts, hacking, they've kept attention off themselves for weeks.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 13, 2016, 06:49:17 AM
Julian Assange is out there saying that the emails did not come from Russian hackers but came from a Clinton insider. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 13, 2016, 07:50:33 AM
Julian Assange is out there saying that the emails did not come from Russian hackers but came from a Clinton insider.

Not exactly a trustworthy source.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 13, 2016, 07:59:38 AM
Not exactly a trustworthy source.

Really?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 13, 2016, 11:21:16 AM
Did the Russians convince Obama to:

Have eight years of economic malaise
Preach divisiveness, and identity politics
Alienate middle income earners
Alienate white people
Side with criminals and cop killers
Bring down our standing in the world
Fight un-winnable wars worldwide with impossible rules of engagement
Kill four Americans in Benghazi including an ambassador
Over regulate
Over tax
Politicize the IRS, DOJ, FBI, CIA, EPA, Interior, etc

 
Have Hillary campaign on four more years of extending Obama's failed policies, then complain that it didn't work, and that we need even more liberal/progressive nonsense.

Let's be a little fair - all these things were bad, but they were not ultimately what caused Hillary to lose.  She lost because she took the union vote in the rust belt for granted despite her messages which said that more jobs would go away and because she never campaigned there. 

Compare that to Trump who actually got out and told people that he wanted to bring jobs back the US.  That was the tipping point difference in the election.  I think enough of the voters in those states looked at the decay, looked at their future and said "what the heck, let's give him a try".  These states were close to being with.  The margin of voters Trump had to win over from the polls was about 200,000 in PA, 200,000 in MI and 230,000 in WI.  Flipping just 650,000 voters turned the election.

The rest of the states split as expected and predicted by the late polling.  Without Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, Trump would have lost by about 15 EVs, Nevada and New Hampshire being the two states he fell short in. 

I said early - the ultimate indictment of both candidates is that neither was able to establish a commanding position over the other despite all the faults.  You gave a laundry list of Hillary's problems, but Trump's are of the same calibre, starting with "Grab 'em in the p***y".
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 13, 2016, 11:27:15 AM


I said early - the ultimate indictment of both candidates is that neither was able to establish a commanding position over the other despite all the faults.  You gave a laundry list of Hillary's problems, but Trump's are of the same calibre, starting with "Grab 'em in the p***y".

Yeah, all the things that the DNC candidate did equate to all the things Trump said.

 ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 13, 2016, 11:29:39 AM
I said early - the ultimate indictment of both candidates is that neither was able to establish a commanding position over the other despite all the faults.  You gave a laundry list of Hillary's problems, but Trump's are of the same calibre, starting with "Grab 'em in the p***y".

I disagree.  So how did Trump get 15,000 plus attendees to many of his rallies, when Hillary had to pay a few hundred people to show up?  Trump said some bad things, unrelated to public policy.  Hillary did, and said a lot of bad things directly related to public policy.  Hillary was way worse, and it showed in the election results.  I will agree, somewhat that a Trump vote in many ways was an anti Hillary vote, as she was not genuine, perceived to be, and was as a liar, and unlikeable. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 14, 2016, 08:04:11 AM
Quote
Former CIA officer Kent Clizbe charges that Mr. Brennan has politicized the spy agency, and with the hacking brief to Congress, even more so today.
“But all the politicization of the CIA of the previous eight years is nothing compared to Brennan’s current operation — his vile use of the good name of the CIA in an attempt to invalidate our presidential election,” Mr. Clizbe said. “Brennan’s misuse of the CIA in an effort to serve his political masters is unprecedented and unforgivable. These are the actions of totalitarian dictators, using foreign security services to sully political opponents. Someone needs to stop him before it’s too late.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/13/obama-shrugs-off-russian-hacking-until-donald-trum/
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 14, 2016, 10:09:20 AM
Does anyone else find it hypocritical that the same people who campaign so strongly for a global world are upset when another country influences the election? 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 14, 2016, 10:21:18 AM
Does anyone else find it hypocritical that the same people who campaign so strongly for a global world are upset when another country influences the election?

 You mean like this:  http://thehill.com/policy/international/236565-netanyahu-pollster-obama-role-in-election-larger-than-reported

or this?  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-us-has-been-meddling-in-other-countries-elections-for-a-century-it-doesnt-feel-good_us_57983b85e4b02d5d5ed382bd

and this: http://politistick.com/flashback-when-obama-interfered-with-israeli-election/
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on December 14, 2016, 11:12:09 AM
It is clear when our progressive friends claim that the Russians might have stolen the election from their dear criminal Hilary, they are starting to find that other progressives are waking up to the hard reality that they don't automatically get their way just because they are whining, little, pathetic, snowflakes.

The anecdotes are different but the narrative is the same across battlegrounds, where Democratic operatives lament a one-size-fits-all approach drawn entirely from pre-selected data — operatives spit out “the model, the model,” as they complain about it — guiding Mook’s decisions on field, television, everything else. That’s the same data operation, of course, that predicted Clinton would win the Iowa caucuses by 6 percentage points (she scraped by with two-tenths of a point), and that predicted she’d beat Bernie Sanders in Michigan (he won by 1.5 points).

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 14, 2016, 12:11:49 PM
I'm curious.  I realize that many of you refuse to believe there's anything to reports of Russian government hacking into DNC emails and that it's all a case of whining Democrats trying to delegitimize Trump's victory.  I get that. 

Just hypothetically, do any of you think it's acceptable for a foreign entity (or domestic one for that matter)  to hack into a political party email server in the US?  Do you consider hacking no big deal because one shouldn't put anything on the internet you're not willing to have leaked?  Or do you believe any evidence of malfeasance or illegal acts are okay to use regardless of the manner in which they are obtained?

I suspect many will just start spouting anti-liberal rhetoric and not answer my questions but I'm just trying to determine just what y'all think is okay and not what your opinion (whether the CIA is right or wrong in its determination) of the current controversy happens to be. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 14, 2016, 12:21:33 PM
In all its history, Wikileaks has never gotten it wrong.  Although I have felt in the past that they revealed some damaging information that should not have been made public, they have not been caught making things up.  Assange has stated it was not the Russians who leaked the Hillary and DNC emails, and I believe him.

Personally, I believe, without any substantial proof, that a disillusioned Hillary (or Bernie) supporter or other insider leaked this stuff.  Not the Russians.

Maybe Trump should pardon Assange and get him out of that embassy.  And make him head of the CIA.

Just kidding.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 14, 2016, 12:31:26 PM
John Podesta was an idiot for using a gmail account.  HRC was an idiot for using a home brewed server.  They opened themselves up for hacking and were careless with information.

Noticed all of the leaked emails from the Trump campaign and the RNC?  Me neither.  Why?  They took security seriously to prevent this from happening.

I'm willing to bet that won't happen again to the dems come 2020.



Personally, I believe, without any substantial proof, that a disillusioned Hillary (or Bernie) supporter or other insider leaked this stuff.  Not the Russians.


 You betcha.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 14, 2016, 01:32:20 PM
I'm curious.  I realize that many of you refuse to believe there's anything to reports of Russian government hacking into DNC emails and that it's all a case of whining Democrats trying to delegitimize Trump's victory.  I get that. 

Just hypothetically, do any of you think it's acceptable for a foreign entity (or domestic one for that matter)  to hack into a political party email server in the US?  Do you consider hacking no big deal because one shouldn't put anything on the internet you're not willing to have leaked?  Or do you believe any evidence of malfeasance or illegal acts are okay to use regardless of the manner in which they are obtained?

I suspect many will just start spouting anti-liberal rhetoric and not answer my questions but I'm just trying to determine just what y'all think is okay and not what your opinion (whether the CIA is right or wrong in its determination) of the current controversy happens to be.


I'm curious if anyone feels that the liberals going apeshit over Romney's comments about the 47% were ok given that he was recorded without his permission.

oh wait, THAT was ok.   ::) ::)


my goodness you ask some stupid questions.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 14, 2016, 04:28:55 PM
John Podesta was an idiot for using a gmail account.  HRC was an idiot for using a home brewed server.  They opened themselves up for hacking and were careless with information.

Noticed all of the leaked emails from the Trump campaign and the RNC?  Me neither.  Why?  They took security seriously to prevent this from happening.

I'm willing to bet that won't happen again to the dems come 2020.


 You betcha.
So you don't believe any of the reports that both the RNC and DNC were hacked with only the DNC emails given out for distribution?  Seems, if true, to lend credence to whomever did the hacking attempting to help one candidate over the other instead of merely causing general mayhem in the election.

I know, I know, only believe whatever fits your bias.  DNC--stupid.  RNC--brilliant.

In case you haven't figured it out by now my bias is DNC=RNC  Both have exactly the same ethical standards as do their fanatical proponents.  Trump however, is a loose cannon that doesn't fit into either xNC mold.  Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen but it potentially could be extremely bad which should concern us all.  I truly hope the change is positive but change there will be.

In general it seems the usual pattern is Democrats win Presidency followed by Republican victory followed by Democrat etc etc.  Very few times in my lifetime has one party put together a string of victories.  Bush followed Reagan but was a one termer.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 14, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
Priebus has stated unequivocally that the RNC was not hacked and claims they had the FBI investigate and confirm that fact.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 14, 2016, 05:41:24 PM
So you don't believe any of the reports that both the RNC and DNC were hacked with only the DNC emails given out for distribution?  Seems, if true, to lend credence to whomever did the hacking attempting to help one candidate over the other instead of merely causing general mayhem in the election.

So where are those supposed hack RNC emails?  Do you have a link? Source?  Anything??  What are the source of these "reports'?

I know, I know, only believe whatever fits your bias.  DNC--stupid.  RNC--brilliant.

 You keep resorting back to this every time you can't make a cohesive argument. 

In case you haven't figured it out by now my bias is DNC=RNC  Both have exactly the same ethical standards as do their fanatical proponents.  Trump however, is a loose cannon that doesn't fit into either xNC mold.  Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen but it potentially could be extremely bad which should concern us all.  I truly hope the change is positive but change there will be.

 Compared to the alternative, a sick old tired career criminal named Hillary, I'll take my chances with Trump.

 If you go back to when I started posting here I was for whoever got the republican nomination.  I absolutely did not want the crazy bitch named Clinton to get in the WH. This country has suffered eight long years under the greatest hoax ever perpetuated on the American people and HRC would even be worse. How anyone could look at the crazy bitch and think she should be president needs their head examined.

 I'm willing to give trump a chance. So far he's doing well assembling his cabinet and I think his first year will see many changes, for the better.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 14, 2016, 06:24:29 PM
Priebus has stated unequivocally that the RNC was not hacked and claims they had the FBI investigate and confirm that fact.

Computer experts say there are only two groups of internet users, the first group has been hacked and they know it, the second group has been hacked but doesn't know they've been hacked.  Priebus is a fool if he thinks any system on the internet is totally secure.  The best you can hope for is to detect an intrusion and stop it before too much damage or loss.  The FBI would never unequivocally confirm any system has not been hacked--the most they could say is they couldn't find evidence of an intrusion.   Oftentimes the only evidence of a hack is the publishing of the hacked information.  Don't publish/use the info and the clueless victim never knows his data has been compromised.




Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 14, 2016, 07:13:03 PM
Who would have known that it would take Russians hacking Podesta's email in order to get the Left to recognize the evils of Globalization. 

Whether you recognize it or not, they are upset because another country (Russia) used our free speech protections and their technical prowess to write and post things that influenced our election.  That is exactly why the Right has been against any other country having any kind of say over American laws.    Yes, Russia committed a crime first, but how are you going to stop them?

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 14, 2016, 08:55:02 PM
I'm curious.  I realize that many of you refuse to believe there's anything to reports of Russian government hacking into DNC emails and that it's all a case of whining Democrats trying to delegitimize Trump's victory.  I get that. 

Just hypothetically, do any of you think it's acceptable for a foreign entity (or domestic one for that matter)  to hack into a political party email server in the US?  Do you consider hacking no big deal because one shouldn't put anything on the internet you're not willing to have leaked?  Or do you believe any evidence of malfeasance or illegal acts are okay to use regardless of the manner in which they are obtained?

I suspect many will just start spouting anti-liberal rhetoric and not answer my questions but I'm just trying to determine just what y'all think is okay and not what your opinion (whether the CIA is right or wrong in its determination) of the current controversy happens to be.
Yeah, I think it would be a big deal if the Russians did that.  But so far the only proof I have is partisan accusations.  And accusations aren't proof.

Also, do you think we ever hack (or try to hack) them?

Here is a bit of irony:  Some Democrats are calling for a real shooting war with Russia over this.  I thought only Rs were war crazy.
This would be even more irony:  About the only way we are going to prove they hacked us is to hack them to find out.  Would that justify them declaring war on us?

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 15, 2016, 08:08:14 AM
Trying to remember the Democrat protests when Dem operatives were trying to get Netanyahu defeated in Israel.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 15, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
I'm curious.  I realize that many of you refuse to believe there's anything to reports of Russian government hacking into DNC emails and that it's all a case of whining Democrats trying to delegitimize Trump's victory.  I get that. 

Just hypothetically, do any of you think it's acceptable for a foreign entity (or domestic one for that matter)  to hack into a political party email server in the US?  Do you consider hacking no big deal because one shouldn't put anything on the internet you're not willing to have leaked?  Or do you believe any evidence of malfeasance or illegal acts are okay to use regardless of the manner in which they are obtained?

I suspect many will just start spouting anti-liberal rhetoric and not answer my questions but I'm just trying to determine just what y'all think is okay and not what your opinion (whether the CIA is right or wrong in its determination) of the current controversy happens to be.

I for one absolutely believe that the DNC emails were hacked.  Podesta fell for a phishing scam and it cost him.

Is it "acceptable"?  No, it is behavior that I do not condone.  But on the other hand, I'm a realist and know that we cannot stop them from trying.  The best we can do is to play great defense.  A great network design with great security products can protect your network.  Google Mail will not.  But before you call it illegal, please cite the law that Russian hackers supposedly broke. 

I am also not ready to suspend the First Amendment and censor anyone's free speech, especially on websites located outside the US. I simply refuse to agree to the government having that power.  Russia had the human right to free speech, just like you did.  If you want to protect against that then you need to raise the bar in education and make sure the students, especially in higher education, are capable of independent thought and of rigorously questioning what is being said to them.  I will not even go to the point of saying "we think you got this via hacking, so you cannot post it".  Way too much abusable power in that.

This is globalization.  This is what an international government or international community looks like.  The only shock is that suddenly you're discovering that you don't like it either.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 15, 2016, 08:50:11 AM
What amazes me is the fact that a campaign would have their workers, especially someone at Podestas level, using Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail or anything other than something the campaign would set up and make sure it was secured.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 15, 2016, 08:52:42 AM
What amazes me is the fact that a campaign would have their workers, especially someone at Podestas level, using Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail or anything other than something the campaign would set up and make sure it was secured.

Campaign= Hillary Clinton.

Apparently the CAB didn't think her home brewed server needing protecting either.  Face it, these people are just plain stupid.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 15, 2016, 09:29:47 AM
Trying to remember the Democrat protests when Dem operatives were trying to get Netanyahu defeated in Israel.

And did it with taxpayer dollars.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on December 15, 2016, 10:29:05 AM
And did it with taxpayer dollars.

Progressives NEVER admit the shoe is on the other foot. It's all about their agenda and their agenda only.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 15, 2016, 01:21:20 PM
Not the Russians:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html)

"A Wikileaks envoy today claims he personally received Clinton campaign emails in Washington D.C. after they were leaked by 'disgusted' whisteblowers - and not hacked by Russia.

Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and a close associate of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, told Dailymail.com that he flew to Washington, D.C. for a clandestine hand-off with one of the email sources in September.

'Neither of [the leaks] came from the Russians,' said Murray in an interview with Dailymail.com on Tuesday. 'The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks.'


Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Ron22 on December 16, 2016, 12:04:48 PM
But but I just heard Obama say it was the Russian and they will not get away with it.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 16, 2016, 01:37:46 PM
I for one absolutely believe that the DNC emails were hacked.
I don't think there is any question about that.  The only question is WHO did the hacking?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 16, 2016, 04:08:21 PM
I don't think there is any question about that.  The only question is WHO did the hacking?

I don't think there was ever any disagreement in the intelligence community about who did the hacking.  They all agree(d) Russia.  There was some initial disagreement about whether or not the intent was to benefit a single candidate or just to mess with the system.  Latest reports indicate that all the intelligence agencies have reached agreement based on what has been learned between then and now, that the Russian government at the highest levels was behind efforts to elect one candidate rather than any other. 

You may now continue blaming HRC for manufacturing this controversy and somehow influencing the intelligence apparatus of the US into backing her supporters thinly disguised effort to delegitimize the election of Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 16, 2016, 05:35:58 PM
I don't think there was ever any disagreement in the intelligence community about who did the hacking.  They all agree(d) Russia. 

Cite your references for that.



There was some initial disagreement about whether or not the intent was to benefit a single candidate or just to mess with the system.  Latest reports indicate that all the intelligence agencies have reached agreement based on what has been learned between then and now, that the Russian government at the highest levels was behind efforts to elect one candidate rather than any other. 

 Again, cite your references.

You may now continue blaming HRC for manufacturing this controversy and somehow influencing the intelligence apparatus of the US into backing her supporters thinly disguised effort to delegitimize the election of Donald Trump.

 Yes, poor poor Hillary...... ::)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 16, 2016, 05:41:42 PM
I don't think there was ever any disagreement in the intelligence community about who did the hacking. 

You are incorrect.  Pretty much the entire intelligence community except the CIA believe it was non-state actors. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 16, 2016, 05:45:43 PM
http://www.npr.org/2016/12/16/505890551/fbi-cia-agree-that-russia-was-trying-to-help-trump-win-the-election
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 16, 2016, 05:52:05 PM
http://www.npr.org/2016/12/16/505890551/fbi-cia-agree-that-russia-was-trying-to-help-trump-win-the-election

NPR?  You're using NPR as a source?

(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w464/flybywire1959/giphy_zpsgec4so1e.gif)

Quote
Two intelligence sources say the FBI agrees with the CIA assessment that Russia interfered in the U.S. election, in part to help Donald Trump, clearing up any confusion and other reporting that the agencies weren't in sync.

 Unnamed sources??

Quote
The entire intelligence community, in fact, is now in alignment that the hacks were partly motivated to try and install Trump as president. The FBI and others continue to say that Russia didn't actually think that was going to happen.

An intelligence source also notes

 IOW, she (the writer) is pulling this out of her ass using unnamed sources.

 Carrie Johnson, the author.

Quote
Prior to coming to NPR in 2010, Johnson worked at the Washington Post for 10 years,

 Well hell, we all know that WashPo is the bastion of unbiased media!  Johnson is a liberal hack.

 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 16, 2016, 07:24:36 PM
suuuuurrrrrreee.  All of this stuff is unclassified.

Yep, we can talk about all of this stuff in the clear.

 ::)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 16, 2016, 07:27:22 PM
suuuuurrrrrreee.  All of this stuff is unclassified.

Yep, we can talk about all of this stuff in the clear.

 ::)

My "sources" have told me that space aliens were responsible for the hacks.  "Sources" in all of the intelligence agencies agree it was space aliens.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 16, 2016, 08:15:12 PM
And Julian Assange says a colleague of his went to D.C. and met a DNC operative that gave him those emails.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 16, 2016, 08:20:17 PM
So you don't believe Congressmen from either party or press statements from the current administration or NPR or the Washington Post but when Trump vomits out words on Twitter, you take it as gospel. I don't think they (intel agencies) will publicly release the evidence they have especially if it involves classified sources and methods but I tend to believe the conclusions of knowledgeable people who see the evidence if they arrive at a consensus with a high confidence factor.  Every day more news stories come out citing intelligence sources developing more and more evidence linking the Russian government with deliberate attempts to corrupt an American election and instead of voicing outrage, many of you continue to attempt to kill the messenger.  I can recall only one post where someone actually agreed that Russian interference in a American election would be a bad thing so apparently most of you think its acceptable.  God help us all when we've become so partisan that some Americans accept foreign attempts at manipulating the American political system.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 16, 2016, 08:20:29 PM
And Julian Assange says a colleague of his went to D.C. and met a DNC operative that gave him those emails.

And no one has ever been able to show his exposures to be false, ever.  Even if you don't like some of the things he has done.  I think he has more credibility than anyone who has been under the influence of Obama for 8 years.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 16, 2016, 08:22:23 PM
And Julian Assange says a colleague of his went to D.C. and met a DNC operative that gave him those emails.

Just because a DNC operative might have given Assange some emails doesn't prove that the Russians didn't hack into the DNC and hand out others.  This had been going on for quite some time.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 16, 2016, 08:23:21 PM
So you don't believe Congressmen from either party or press statements from the current administration or NPR or the Washington Post but when Trump vomits out words on Twitter, you take it as gospel. I don't think they (intel agencies) will publicly release the evidence they have especially if it involves classified sources and methods but I tend to believe the conclusions of knowledgeable people who see the evidence if they arrive at a consensus with a high confidence factor.  Every day more news stories come out citing intelligence sources developing more and more evidence linking the Russian government with deliberate attempts to corrupt an American election and instead of voicing outrage, many of you continue to attempt to kill the messenger.  I can recall only one post where someone actually agreed that Russian interference in a American election would be a bad thing so apparently most of you think its acceptable.  God help us all when we've become so partisan that some Americans accept foreign attempts at manipulating the American political system.

Don't confuse rejection of the politically motivated crap coming from the administration with agreement that Russian interference in our election isn't bad.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 16, 2016, 08:28:40 PM
Once again, Obama and all his sycophants have accomplished their goal, which was to divert attention from the content of the emails to the source of them.  The emails themselves are damning evidence of corruption at the highest levels and prove unfitness to hold high office.

And EVEN IF ( a big IF) it was the Russians who did it (unlikely), that in itself shows the total incompetence of the people entrusted with our national secrets.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 16, 2016, 08:45:19 PM
So you don't believe Congressmen from either party or press statements from the current administration or NPR or the Washington Post but when Trump vomits out words on Twitter, you take it as gospel. I don't think they (intel agencies) will publicly release the evidence they have especially if it involves classified sources and methods but I tend to believe the conclusions of knowledgeable people who see the evidence if they arrive at a consensus with a high confidence factor.  Every day more news stories come out citing intelligence sources developing more and more evidence linking the Russian government with deliberate attempts to corrupt an American election and instead of voicing outrage, many of you continue to attempt to kill the messenger.  I can recall only one post where someone actually agreed that Russian interference in a American election would be a bad thing so apparently most of you think its acceptable.  God help us all when we've become so partisan that some Americans accept foreign attempts at manipulating the American political system.

Oh fuckin' puleeze!   

 The best you can come up with is MSM "sources" to affirm what they want you to believe. And you cite the most liberal progressive hacks as your information sources.

 Yea, no bias there, only pure journalistic integrity.

 Don't worry, come Tuesday, after the EC meets Monday the moonbats will be talking impeachment just as soon as Trump is sworn in.  They even started that today.  And you'll eat up every word as the gospel truth.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 16, 2016, 09:20:55 PM
Once again, Obama and all his sycophants have accomplished their goal, which was to divert attention from the content of the emails to the source of them.  The emails themselves are damning evidence of corruption at the highest levels and prove unfitness to hold high office.

And EVEN IF ( a big IF) it was the Russians who did it (unlikely), that in itself shows the total incompetence of the people entrusted with our national secrets.
Yes, if I were the Dems, I'd be careful to not call attention to the emails at all. Letting the issue drop and regrouping to save the party at the next election might be a higher priority. The more this story bloats, the more exposure the existence of the DNC whistleblower who gave the emails to Assange will get, and thus more exposure of the corruption of HRC and the Clinton Foundation.

That makes me wonder if an ultimate outcome might be the Dems using HRC as a sacrificial lamb, to supposedly cleanse themselves and through political means hijack the presidency for someone else.

And while the actual hackers (Guccifer?) might be Russian (they seem to produce hackers over there), an individual hacker does not necessarily represent Russia or its government.

Can't help but picture Putin laughing himself silly over all this.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 17, 2016, 06:56:08 AM
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/the-democrats-newest-scapegoat-the-russians/article/2609809

Quote
The Democratic Party has latched onto reports citing anonymous CIA sources who allege the Russians tried to sway the 2016 presidential election. After blaming Fake News, the FBI, racism, sexism and the Electoral College, it appears the newest scapegoat for Hillary Clinton's and the party's crushing defeat is Russia.

The mainstream media and the Clinton campaign were in an uproar during the general election when President-elect Trump wouldn't commit to accepting the outcome. Now they are the ones who aren't accepting the outcome, even claiming that the election was rigged. After Clinton's lawyers joined Green Party candidate Jill Stein's bogus recount efforts, campaign chairman John Podesta has now upped the ante by calling for the electors to receive an intelligence briefing before they vote on Dec. 19.

Podesta's calls come on the heels of a letter sent by a small group of electors to National Intelligence Director James Clapper, which was spearheaded by the daughter of Democratic Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. According to Reuters, Clapper's agency, which oversees the 17-agency intelligence community, has not embraced the CIA leaker's assessment. It is important to note that the FBI also reached a different conclusion than the reported CIA sources.

Given the reported lack of agreement in the intelligence community, the biased coverage of the media of the general election, and the Democratic Party's desperate attempts to find a scapegoat, this reeks of politics. Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson has already said the decentralized nature of our electoral system protects it from serious disruption. The White House has previously said there is no evidence of hackers tampering with the election. And even if Russia was behind the emails WikiLeaks uncovered, the damage was nominal at best.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 17, 2016, 07:02:54 AM
Just curious here, did the Russians hack the polling organizations that showed that Clinto was going to win?  Care to explain that one?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on December 17, 2016, 07:14:22 AM
The scary part of all this is the POTUS with 4 weeks left in his term is talking about initiating retaliation for this. I'm thinking that he wants to leave Trump with a mess.   I'm also thinking that Putin will just ignore and laugh at Obama while he retaliates.   What is getting little press is that Assange has said it was a disgruntled democrat who leaked the emails.  And that Podesta, in his infinite stupidity fell for a phishing scheme that allowed the hackers months long access to his files.  If it weren't so sad it would be funny.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 17, 2016, 07:21:06 AM
Just curious here, did the Russians hack the polling organizations that showed that Clinto was going to win?  Care to explain that one?

From the article I posted above, Lisa Boothe wrote this:

Quote
The Russians didn't make Clinton defy government rules by setting up a private email server, using software to bleach tens of thousands of emails, and then lie about it, which prompted a criminal probe by the FBI. The Russians didn't force Clinton to engage in pay-for-play scenarios involving the Clinton Foundation and foreign donations. The Russians didn't prevent Clinton from stepping foot in Wisconsin, being a likable person, or effectively driving a message that resonated with voters. The Russians also didn't prevent minority voters from turning out in cities such as Philadelphia and Detroit. President Obama even acknowledged the Clinton campaign's failure to invest time in rural towns as a major misstep.

 Hillary and the DNC cannot come to terms they lost this election.  It was her turn, it was owed to her. And the Clinton Campaign started believing their own bullshit and the propaganda of the MSM that she was winning.  Phony poll after phony poll and a MSM that was her de facto media arm that went all in to get her elected and made no apologies for it.

 Any news stories that came out and even suggested Trump may win was quickly dismissed.  Trump supporters were scorned and the infamous "irredeemable deplorables" comment from Clinton herself was an attempt to shame people into voting for this tired old sick power hungry criminal.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 17, 2016, 07:24:33 AM
   What is getting little press is that Assange has said it was a disgruntled democrat who leaked the emails.  And that Podesta, in his infinite stupidity fell for a phishing scheme that allowed the hackers months long access to his files.  If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

Exactly. Hard to believe one of the party faithful would see what a corrupt manipulated campaign this was and hand over access to the emails to Wiki Leaks.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 17, 2016, 07:35:58 AM
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Username on December 17, 2016, 10:42:32 AM
The Russians could not have possibly hacked the election.  Obama told Putin to "cut it out" and "stop it" way back in September.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 17, 2016, 11:08:47 AM
So the Democrats, and the media are just saying the Russians hacked Hillary's email and divulged all the dirt that she committed with the DNC, and others?  They are not saying the Russians hacked the results, correct?

Therefore, it doesn't matter that she did all these horrible things, it just matters who exposed them?  Wow.  Talk about priorities. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 17, 2016, 11:47:38 AM
So the Democrats, and the media are just saying the Russians hacked Hillary's email and divulged all the dirt that she committed with the DNC, and others?  They are not saying the Russians hacked the results, correct?

Therefore, it doesn't matter that she did all these horrible things, it just matters who exposed them?  Wow.  Talk about priorities.

Bingo!

Except their talking points are spoken in a vagueness in order to plant the seed of doubt.  After watching and reading the news this morning it's amazing how lock step they are in their daily talking points.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on December 17, 2016, 02:20:03 PM
Bingo!

Except their talking points are spoken in a vagueness in order to plant the seed of doubt.  After watching and reading the news this morning it's amazing how lock step they are in their daily talking points.

Not surprising considering how lockstep the progressives have been about repeating whatever they are told to repeat. The indoctrination continues.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 17, 2016, 04:15:31 PM
While the liberal/progressives are all aghast that those mean evil Russians hacked the election, they are very conveniently staying away from the content of those hacked emails which are far more troubling and damaging. 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/10/13/the-most-explosive-wikileaks-clinton-revelations-so-far/

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2016/10/29/the-5-biggest-revelations-about-hillary-clinton-from-wikileaks-n2238298

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/hillary-clinton-wikileaks

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37639370

http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/

http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/26-wikileaks-bombshells-on-hillary-you-need-to-know/

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/20/13308108/wikileaks-podesta-hillary-clinton

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/wikileaks-emails-hillary-clinton-campaign-john-podesta

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/john-podesta-wikileaks-hacked-emails-229304

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/complete-list-of-wikileaks-podesta-email-dump/

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-08/latest-wikileaks-revelations

http://www.the-lighthouse.net/podesta-wikileaks-revelation-recap/

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/12/497698455/whats-in-the-latest-wikileaks-dump-of-clinton-campaign-emails

https://shadowproof.com/2016/10/17/podesta-emails-revelations-collection/

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-wikileaks-explained-20161031-story.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/12/top-10-hillary-clinton-scandals-exposed-wikileaks/

(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w464/flybywire1959/leak_zps3yi4fhz5.jpg)

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 17, 2016, 06:08:25 PM
the corruption of the liberals is old news.

why don't people realize that the possibility of the russians "influencing" the election is much much much more important?

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 17, 2016, 07:35:02 PM
the corruption of the liberals is old news.

why don't people realize that the possibility of the russians "influencing" the election is much much much more important?

Maybe because in a globalized world, every country has the opportunity to influence our election?  Seriously, unless you want to try a complete ban on foreign money, this is where we are. 

It isn't like a foreign billionaire(s?) hasn't been pumping money in to influence our elections for a decade already.  The Left is upset now because they don't like Putin.   Also old news.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 18, 2016, 07:50:55 AM
Maybe because in a globalized world, every country has the opportunity to influence our election?  Seriously, unless you want to try a complete ban on foreign money, this is where we are. 

It isn't like a foreign billionaire(s?) hasn't been pumping money in to influence our elections for a decade already.  The Left is upset now because they don't like Putin.   Also old news.

Soros, the Saudis, China, etc are foreign.  They, and MANY other foreign entities have given money to Hillary, and Bill for decades purely for influence over U.S. public policy, and elections.  The media says nothing about that.  Why?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 18, 2016, 09:48:32 AM
Stolen from another forum I am on:

How was Putin able to get the sitting AG of the United States to meet in secret with the spouse of a potential Defendant on a tarmac?

How was Putin able to get the DNC to rig the primaries against Bernie Sanders?

How was Putin able to get the Republicans to start a #NeverTrump movement?

How was Putin able to trick the former Secretary of State into running a pay-for-play scam?

Can one of the liberal/progressives answer these questions?  No, the CIA would never LIE, no never. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2016, 09:55:15 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-13/saudi-arabia-has-funded-20-hillarys-presidential-campaign-saudi-crown-prince-claims

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russian-government-initiative-gave-millions-to-clinton-foundation/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2016/08/01/hillary-clinton-sure-has-a-lot-of-ties-to-the-russians-n2200650

http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/hillary-campaign-chief-linked-to-money-laundering-in-russia/

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 18, 2016, 10:12:37 AM
The content of the emails...the content of the emails....the content of the emails....

The topic for this thread was Russian hacking.

All most of you can rant on about is "the content of the emails"

You can discuss the content of the emails in another thread but as usual you answer anything about anything by immediately going into defense mode and blaming those evil democrats for everything that is wrong with the world.  I stubbed my toe this morning...damn Obama said you could keep your doctor.  Got stuck in traffic....damn Hillary emails are still missing.  Sure is cold today....proof global warming is a Democratic fiction.

I can accept some partisan politics as the price for freedom in this country, but to accept Russian meddling in American politics should be a huge redline no American should accept Russia stepping over.  All I hear from most on this board is...but the content of the emails....or...I'm not convinced Russia is behind hacking as I believe Trump when he dismisses the entire intel community's assessment based on.............nothing

It forces me to conclude that the concept of American patriotism is no longer a strong unifying factor for Americans.  We've become such a polarized society that it's Conservatism, Liberalism, Republican, Democrat, Black, White, Christian, or Muslim FIRST and anyone of some other pursuasion must be evil incarnate, Russia excepted, provided the laws they break benefit my particular persuasion.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 18, 2016, 10:16:08 AM
Stolen from another forum I am on:

How was Putin able to get the sitting AG of the United States to meet in secret with the spouse of a potential Defendant on a tarmac?

How was Putin able to get the DNC to rig the primaries against Bernie Sanders?

How was Putin able to get the Republicans to start a #NeverTrump movement?

How was Putin able to trick the former Secretary of State into running a pay-for-play scam?

Can one of the liberal/progressives answer these questions?  No, the CIA would never LIE, no never.

What does any of the above have to do with Russian hacking?  You might as well answer the question about Russians killing civilians indiscriminately in Aleppo by commenting on HRC, pay for play bull crap.  Russian hacking?....but what about ....fill in the blank with any off topic rant....
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 18, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Russian meddling pales in comparison to the meddling Bill, and Hillary have BEEN PAID TO DO from FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS, and foreign corporations.  They SOLD THEIR INFLUENCE for years, now these same people, (another foreigner, Soros, etc) are pissed they spent 1.2 BILLION DOLLARS for Hillary's campaign, yet she still LOST.  Boo Hoo, progressives.  Go sell Communism, and Totalitarianism elsewhere.  Your dreams of being ROYALTY have been put on permanent HOLD.

The content of the emails shows how illegal, immoral, and unethical Hillary was.  And yes I say WAS as she is irrelevant now.  Buh bye Hillary, Bill, Huma, Chelsea, Valerie, Hussein, and Michelle Obama, Debbie Blabbermouth Schultz, Harry Reid.........     
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2016, 10:42:05 AM
The content of the emails...the content of the emails....the content of the emails....

The topic for this thread was Russian hacking.

All most of you can rant on about is "the content of the emails"

You can discuss the content of the emails in another thread but as usual you answer anything about anything by immediately going into defense mode and blaming those evil democrats for everything that is wrong with the world.  I stubbed my toe this morning...damn Obama said you could keep your doctor.  Got stuck in traffic....damn Hillary emails are still missing.  Sure is cold today....proof global warming is a Democratic fiction.

I can accept some partisan politics as the price for freedom in this country, but to accept Russian meddling in American politics should be a huge redline no American should accept Russia stepping over.  All I hear from most on this board is...but the content of the emails....or...I'm not convinced Russia is behind hacking as I believe Trump when he dismisses the entire intel community's assessment based on.............nothing

It forces me to conclude that the concept of American patriotism is no longer a strong unifying factor for Americans.  We've become such a polarized society that it's Conservatism, Liberalism, Republican, Democrat, Black, White, Christian, or Muslim FIRST and anyone of some other pursuasion must be evil incarnate, Russia excepted, provided the laws they break benefit my particular persuasion.

 Why are you (and other liberals) so concerned about who leaked the emails rather than the content of those emails?  Does the content of those emails trouble you, at all?   

 And please tell us, what other "hacking" do you believe took place?  Voting machines?  County election offices?   What?  And how?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2016, 11:03:01 AM
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/310940-brazile-writes-letter-to-congress-calling-for-investigation-into-russian

Quote
“As Chair of the Democratic National Committee — one of the main victims of the Russian attacks — I ask that you support and provide any needed assistance to an independent, bipartisan investigation of the attacks that includes public hearings," the interim chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee wrote in a letter to Congress Sunday.

“What we do know is that these intrusions were not just ‘hacks’ — they were attacks on the United States by a foreign power, and they must be treated as such,” she said.

 So Donna, just how did those rascally Russians convince you to pass debate questions to Hillary?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 18, 2016, 11:32:12 AM
There is as yet no proof that the Russian government meddled with our election. When there is, we will discuss.

There does seem to be a distinct act in a wooded area of DC, wherein a disgruntled DNC staffer passed the emails to a Wikileaks staffer, using the reason that some in the DNC were very concerned about HRC's corruption and money laundering, as well as the diverting of the nomination away from Sanders. This constitutes a leak, not a hack.

Is that coming out in the MSM yet? When it does, we will discuss.

Plenty of articles all over the net about strong US barriers to hacking, Russia and its capabilities, election protections against hacking, and mutual hacking by many entities on smaller scales.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 18, 2016, 11:42:47 AM
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/310940-brazile-writes-letter-to-congress-calling-for-investigation-into-russian

 So Donna, just how did those rascally Russians convince you to pass debate questions to Hillary?

Since you're so intent on discussing the content of emails just what proof do you have that the emails are legitimate?  If they indicate some sort of crime was committed, would they be admissible as evidence of wrongdoing?  Could someone have edited these emails other than the alleged author(s)? 

You're willing to believe anything, from any source, as long as it matches your beliefs.  This is a dangerous way of looking at what you find on the internet.  It's disturbing when you accept foreign intervention in internal politics because you agree with it.  I've come to the conclusion that it matters not what my political preferences are in reality, my disgust with fellow Americans who accept foreign meddling makes me Liberal.  Got it.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2016, 11:51:36 AM
Since you're so intent on discussing the content of emails just what proof do you have that the emails are legitimate?

 I have yet to hear anyone who is the subject of these emails deny that they are legitimate.

   Could someone have edited these emails other than the alleged author(s)? 

See above.


You're willing to believe anything, from any source, as long as it matches your beliefs.  This is a dangerous way of looking at what you find on the internet.

Pot, meet kettle.

It's disturbing when you accept foreign intervention in internal politics because you agree with it.  I've come to the conclusion that it matters not what my political preferences are in reality, my disgust with fellow Americans who accept foreign meddling makes me Liberal.  Got it.

 You still refuse to address the question:

Quote
  Why are you (and other liberals) so concerned about who leaked the emails rather than the content of those emails?  Does the content of those emails trouble you, at all?   

 And please tell us, what other "hacking" do you believe took place?  Voting machines?  County election offices?   What?  And how?

 So?  Can you answer without deflection?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 18, 2016, 11:52:17 AM
Since you're so intent on discussing the content of emails just what proof do you have that the emails are legitimate?  If they indicate some sort of crime was committed, would they be admissible as evidence of wrongdoing?  Could someone have edited these emails other than the alleged author(s)? 

You're willing to believe anything, from any source, as long as it matches your beliefs.  This is a dangerous way of looking at what you find on the internet.  It's disturbing when you accept foreign intervention in internal politics because you agree with it.  I've come to the conclusion that it matters not what my political preferences are in reality, my disgust with fellow Americans who accept foreign meddling makes me Liberal.  Got it.
Wikileaks has a 100% legitimacy rate and they protect it by ensuring accuracy. Wikileaks tweeted the other day that Obama should submit any documents he receives from Putin to Wikileaks' authentication procedure. Wikileaks uses robust authentication software to ensure material received has not been altered or tampered with. Wikileaks' whole goal is transparency for the people. Wikileaks has nothing on Trump at the moment but has stated they will publish it if obtained. Check out Wikileaks Twitter feed and their website.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Username on December 18, 2016, 12:07:23 PM
The Russians tried to hack BOTH the DNC and the RNC.  The RNC had a better defense.  They were successful with the DNC and kept going.  If they had been successful with the republicans I have no doubt that the democrats would have been VERY vocal in using that inside information (like with the Romney 47% video).  And not care at all where the information came from.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on December 18, 2016, 12:27:27 PM
But but I just heard Obama say it was the Russian and they will not get away with it.

Didn't Obama say that he'd have more flexibility after the 2012 election and would be in touch with Vlad at that time?

To explain again, anything the Left says is projection.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 18, 2016, 12:37:52 PM
Didn't Obama say that he'd have more flexibility after the 2012 election and would be in touch with Vlad at that time?

To explain again, anything the Left says is projection.

Yes, he also laughed at Romney for thinking the Russians were still a threat.  They always have been.  So, if the Russian hacking is true, which I doubt, then which is it?  Are the Russians a threat or not Hussein Obama?

Obama, and Hillary are weak appeasers.  Why would the Russians want Trump in power, a man that will stand up to them?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2016, 12:43:09 PM
Yes, he also laughed at Romney for thinking the Russians were still a threat.  They always have been.  So, if the Russian hacking is true, which I doubt, then which is it?  Are the Russians a threat or not Hussein Obama?

Obama, and Hillary are weak appeasers.  Why would the Russians want Trump in power, a man that will stand up to them?

 Hillary sure enjoyed all the donations the Russians made on her behalf.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2016, 12:44:06 PM
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w464/flybywire1959/steve_kelley_steve_kelley_for_dec_13_2016_5__zpswd4lzne7.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 18, 2016, 02:36:40 PM
... Wikileaks has nothing on Trump at the moment but has stated they will publish it if obtained. Check out Wikileaks Twitter feed and their website.

I'm sure Putin will get right on that,
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 18, 2016, 02:38:32 PM
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w464/flybywire1959/steve_kelley_steve_kelley_for_dec_13_2016_5__zpswd4lzne7.jpg)

It's doubly sad that Americans take the word of foreign provocateurs interfering with internal American politics.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 18, 2016, 02:38:41 PM
How could the B.O. Administration be so totally incompetent as to allow Russia to hack state secrets?

Oh.  Well, these are the folks who couldn't even create a health care web site that works.  That couldn't safeguard the personal information of thousands of current and former government workers.  That can't anticipate and prevent the Chinese from stealing a stupid underwater robot.  That let the Iranians run rings around them and stood by while ISIS grew from the JV team.

If the Rooskies actually did it, which is doubtful and not proven, it only highlights the stupidity of the people in charge.  Not to mention the damning contents of the emails.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2016, 02:42:53 PM
It's doubly sad that Americans take the word of foreign provocateurs interfering with internal American politics.

 Again, please show us what was not true in the WikiLeaks emails.  And again, please show us where Podesta, Clinton, Brazille, or anyone else named in the emails have said what was published was not true.

 And please show PROOF that Julian Assange is lying about where he obtained the emails.  PROOF, not some liberal media piece using unnamed "sources".
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 18, 2016, 02:43:49 PM
It's doubly sad that Americans take the word of foreign provocateurs interfering with internal American politics.
What foreign provocateurs have confessed to interfering? What were their words?

The charge is that the leaking of the DNC emails by Wikileaks affected the election.

The cartoon assumes something that is not proven.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 18, 2016, 03:19:50 PM
What foreign provocateurs have confessed to interfering? What were their words?

The charge is that the leaking of the DNC emails by Wikileaks affected the election.

The cartoon assumes something that is not proven.

You really expect Putin to admit or put forth the reasons for interfering with internal American politics?  I don't really care what his reasons were.  I don't really care whether Democrats were targeted or Republicans were targeted or Rosie O'donnell was targeted.  The Russians have no business meddling in our business.  I'm relying on what our intelligence agencies have concluded with high confidence. 

I don't care about any "charge that the leaking of DNC emails by Wikileaks affected the election."  I care that Putin directed hacking into American systems and his intent. The intent can be derived by anyone with a brain by what was released from the hacking.  You all have shifted the focus to what was hacked and it's effect on the election--the focus should be on Russia doing anything to interfere regardless of whether it was effective or not.  Your continuing focus on what was hacked makes me believe that you think it's okay because it reinforces your case against the godless Democrats. In your world it would be okay for cops to break into a home and search it without a search warrant provided they find evidence of a crime.  Seems like you would do well in Nazi Germany of the 1940s and any talk about the sanctity of our Bill of Rights is just eyewash as long as you benefit from looking the other way.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on December 18, 2016, 03:40:04 PM
You really expect Putin to admit or put forth the reasons for interfering with internal American politics?  I don't really care what his reasons were.  I don't really care whether Democrats were targeted or Republicans were targeted or Rosie O'donnell was targeted.  The Russians have no business meddling in our business.  I'm relying on what our intelligence agencies have concluded with high confidence. 

I don't care about any "charge that the leaking of DNC emails by Wikileaks affected the election."  I care that Putin directed hacking into American systems and his intent. The intent can be derived by anyone with a brain by what was released from the hacking.  You all have shifted the focus to what was hacked and it's effect on the election--the focus should be on Russia doing anything to interfere regardless of whether it was effective or not.  Your continuing focus on what was hacked makes me believe that you think it's okay because it reinforces your case against the godless Democrats. In your world it would be okay for cops to break into a home and search it without a search warrant provided they find evidence of a crime.  Seems like you would do well in Nazi Germany of the 1940s and any talk about the sanctity of our Bill of Rights is just eyewash as long as you benefit from looking the other way.

Witmo, you are being taken for a ride.  This wasn't putin, it was a disgruntled Bernie supporter in the dnc for one for one of the leaks and phishing scheme by some putz who got lucky because Podesta is a moron and exposed his gmail account, apparently for months for the other leak.   The dems have tried 4 or 5 different narratives since Trump whooped Hillary, this one has got a little traction because liberals are so gullible. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 18, 2016, 04:46:24 PM
I'm relying on what our intelligence agencies have concluded with high confidence. 

selective confidence

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2016, 05:10:39 PM
  The Russians have no business meddling in our business.  I'm relying on what our intelligence agencies have concluded with high confidence.

 OK, once again, please cite that intelligence from those agencies, and please do it without citing a NPR article or other MSM unnamed "source".  Those intelligence agencies have PR departments and they are allowed to make public statements on their collective letterheads.  So please show us one of these press releases.

I don't care about any "charge that the leaking of DNC emails by Wikileaks affected the election."  I care that Putin directed hacking into American systems and his intent. The intent can be derived by anyone with a brain by what was released from the hacking.  You all have shifted the focus to what was hacked and it's effect on the election--the focus should be on Russia doing anything to interfere regardless of whether it was effective or not.  Your continuing focus on what was hacked makes me believe that you think it's okay because it reinforces your case against the godless Democrats. In your world it would be okay for cops to break into a home and search it without a search warrant provided they find evidence of a crime.

 You've been asked repeatedly to please explain exactly how or what the Russians supposedly did to "influence" the election.  And repeatedly you come up empty handed.   Why? Because the DNC talking points you follow religiously haven't told you either.   You can't show anything actually happened except for MSM articles and Talking Points.  Nothing. Nada.



Seems like you would do well in Nazi Germany of the 1940s and any talk about the sanctity of our Bill of Rights is just eyewash as long as you benefit from looking the other way.

 Ah, there it is!  Whenever a liberal is pushed back they resort to the Nazi and Hitler arguments!  On cue!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 18, 2016, 05:34:04 PM
For me the Totalitarian Communism (National Socialism) of the left/progressive/liberal/Democrats is more like the NAZI era than anything the Republicans have done.  I mean look at PC.  It is the societal 1A killing of free thought and speech due to someone being offended.  WTF?  Explain that Libs!

Also, the DNC/Progressives don't want the Constitution to matter.  They want to take away our rights especially the 1A, and the 2A. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 18, 2016, 06:27:52 PM
You really expect Putin to admit or put forth the reasons for interfering with internal American politics?  I don't really care what his reasons were.  I don't really care whether Democrats were targeted or Republicans were targeted or Rosie O'donnell was targeted.  The Russians have no business meddling in our business.  I'm relying on what our intelligence agencies have concluded with high confidence. 

I don't care about any "charge that the leaking of DNC emails by Wikileaks affected the election."  I care that Putin directed hacking into American systems and his intent. The intent can be derived by anyone with a brain by what was released from the hacking.  You all have shifted the focus to what was hacked and it's effect on the election--the focus should be on Russia doing anything to interfere regardless of whether it was effective or not.  Your continuing focus on what was hacked makes me believe that you think it's okay because it reinforces your case against the godless Democrats. In your world it would be okay for cops to break into a home and search it without a search warrant provided they find evidence of a crime.  Seems like you would do well in Nazi Germany of the 1940s and any talk about the sanctity of our Bill of Rights is just eyewash as long as you benefit from looking the other way.


What would Putin have to lose by admitting that he hacked those emails.  Just as a clarification on the Podesta emails.  He gave away his login credentials by responding to a phishing email.  I'd put that in the column of stupidity rather than hacking.


We should not be concerned that Donna Brazile was feeding debate questions to Hillary?  You're just fine with that I guess?  What else would you be okay with?


You must also be okay with the way the DNC was stacking the deck against Bernie Sanders to ensure Hillary got the nomination?


The things that still gets me is how Hillary and her team thought that would just cruise on to victory over Trump.  The polls showed her up as many as 12 points late in the race.  Hillary took a lot of days off while Trump kept doing his rallies attracting 10's of thousands to his rallies while Hillary played to much smaller crowds.  Do you feel that had no impact on the outcome?   How many campaign appearances did Hillary make in Wisconsin or Michigan?


When a party begins to feel that they deserve to run the country this kind of things happens.  Check and see how many national, state and local races Democrats have lost in just the eight year Obama has been President. 


You lost, we won, get over it.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on December 18, 2016, 07:45:52 PM
It's doubly sad that Americans take the word of foreign provocateurs interfering with internal American politics.

It is PATHETICALLY sad that you miss the hysterical irony of your hypocrisy.
How EXACTLY did Putin force Hilary to set up an illegal private server that had such pathetically incompetent security that it was hacked multiple times? And how did Russia force the DNC to hand over the debate questions in advance, but only to Hilary?
And
How did the DNC handing out the questions in advance help Trump?
Where is the first piece of integrity in your objections to the democrats being unbearably stupid resulting in the lying doormat getting beaten by Trump?
Get a clue, Witmo.
Hilary was the worst possible candidate in history. SHE LOST. Russia didn't defeat her. Ignorance, pride, ego and corruption did.
How does Americans discovering the abject corruption going on in their party become an evil Russian plot?
Your entire facade crumbles when the light of intelligent thought is turned on.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 18, 2016, 08:07:37 PM
This topic has gotten rather ridiculous.

The indignation from the left  comes across as false.  Maybe they are really upset over Russia's interference, but
1) they haven't shown the same feelings about George Soros's meddling.
2) it isn't like Russia doing this is new.
3) the US is not the sole focus. 

Grow up already. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 07:46:33 AM
OK, once again, please cite that intelligence from those agencies, and please do it without citing a NPR article or other MSM unnamed "source".  Those intelligence agencies have PR departments and they are allowed to make public statements on their collective letterheads.  So please show us one of these press releases.

 You've been asked repeatedly to please explain exactly how or what the Russians supposedly did to "influence" the election.  And repeatedly you come up empty handed.   Why? Because the DNC talking points you follow religiously haven't told you either.   You can't show anything actually happened except for MSM articles and Talking Points.  Nothing. Nada.



 Ah, there it is!  Whenever a liberal is pushed back they resort to the Nazi and Hitler arguments!  On cue!
Ask our Intelligence Agencies to release their evidence.  I no longer have a security clearance and if I did I wouldn't tell you what my evidence was anyway.  I'm going by what the directors of multiple agencies who do have security clearances have told Congressmen and what Congressmen have told the nation. 

I was waiting for when the "talking points" card would be played.  Anytime one side or the other has no good counterpoint they claim they don't accept something since it's merely the other side's "talking point" and unworthy of argument.  I wonder if you would be so tolerant of someone breaking into your computer as you seem to be with someone breaking into the DNC's?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 19, 2016, 08:06:53 AM
Ask our Intelligence Agencies to release their evidence.  I no longer have a security clearance and if I did I wouldn't tell you what my evidence was anyway.  I'm going by what the directors of multiple agencies who do have security clearances have told Congressmen and what Congressmen have told the nation. 

I was waiting for when the "talking points" card would be played.  Anytime one side or the other has no good counterpoint they claim they don't accept something since it's merely the other side's "talking point" and unworthy of argument.  I wonder if you would be so tolerant of someone breaking into your computer as you seem to be with someone breaking into the DNC's?

Why were the Democrats so reticent to address the substance of the emails rather than always pivoting?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on December 19, 2016, 08:21:06 AM
The article below is a pretty good summary of the lack of evidence of a Russian hack to influence the election.   It makes cogent arguments as to the problems with attributing this to the Russians and the need to make the evidence public before we start "retributions".

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/14/heres-the-public-evidence-russia-hacked-the-dnc-its-not-enough/
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 08:27:05 AM
Ask our Intelligence Agencies to release their evidence.  I no longer have a security clearance and if I did I wouldn't tell you what my evidence was anyway.  I'm going by what the directors of multiple agencies who do have security clearances have told Congressmen and what Congressmen have told the nation. 

Again, you are spinning this with no proof, no evidence, nothing.  You want desperately to believe the fantasy being perpetuated by the MSM. You're now cloaking it with "security clearances". You know damn well that those agencies in cooperation with the WH could issue a press release if they actually had something, anything worth releasing.  Instead you rely on articles from the MSM using unnamed sources for their "inside information".

 Notice this weekend four of the top intelligence agencies were going to hold a press conference but cancelled abruptly.  None of them wanted to appear.  Why?  Could it be they really have nothing and the WH had them stand down?  Could it be that Obama doesn't want to be embarrassed?

 When you have something real and tangible, come back and we'll discuss.

I was waiting for when the "talking points" card would be played.  Anytime one side or the other has no good counterpoint they claim they don't accept something since it's merely the other side's "talking point" and unworthy of argument.  I wonder if you would be so tolerant of someone breaking into your computer as you seem to be with someone breaking into the DNC's?

 I'm not as stupid as HRC and the DNC when it comes to cyber security.   I'm not worried about someone hacking my computer because I use common sense and also take the time to properly secure my computer.

 You taut DNC talking points daily, right on cue.  You follow religiously the MSM and are gullible enough to believe their tripe and lies. I've yet to see you apply any critical thinking and just parrot whatever you've read in the MSM.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 08:44:29 AM
The article below is a pretty good summary of the lack of evidence of a Russian hack to influence the election.   It makes cogent arguments as to the problems with attributing this to the Russians and the need to make the evidence public before we start "retributions".

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/14/heres-the-public-evidence-russia-hacked-the-dnc-its-not-enough/

That was a pretty good summary of the technical evidence supporting hacking but it doesn't include all the sources of intelligence available to the CIA and other government agencies.  Let me preface my comments by saying I do not hold a security clearance and I do not have any first hand knowledge of what evidence may exist but I would not be surprised if NSA communication intercepts and HUMINT sources are being utilized to corroborate conclusions about who is behind the hacking and may even shed considerable light on what the ultimate intent of the hacking effort was.  You won't get the Intel Agencies revealing sources and methods to the general public which is why a closed, bi-partisan hearing where such intel can be discussed is necessary.  The danger in being too open about what evidence exists is that if these sources and methods come to light, they no longer will be useful and worst case, some people may die
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 08:46:09 AM
Why were the Democrats so reticent to address the substance of the emails rather than always pivoting?

Lucifer...Here's my latest talking point

Why are some Trump supporters turning a blind eye towards Russian meddling?  Why aren't specific questions concerning specific emails being asked?   If they're not answered we'd have something to discuss.  Perhaps some feel that answering questions about illegally obtained emails is tantamount to accepting the legitimacy of the emails.  I don't know.  It's like asking when was the last time you beat your wife.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 19, 2016, 08:49:17 AM
I no longer have a security clearance and if I did I COULDN'T tell you what my evidence was anyway. 

FTFY.  Unless you worked in this section of the intelligence agencies, it's unlikely that you would have had access. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 08:52:25 AM
FTFY.  Unless you worked in this section of the intelligence agencies, it's unlikely that you would have had access.

Bingo! 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 08:53:28 AM
Lucifer...Here's my latest talking point

Why are some Trump supporters turning a blind eye towards Russian meddling?  Why aren't specific questions concerning specific emails being asked?   If they're not answered we'd have something to discuss.  Perhaps some feel that answering questions about illegally obtained emails is tantamount to accepting the legitimacy of the emails.  I don't know.  It's like asking when was the last time you beat your wife.

 You're continuing your spin.  Come back when you have something to add to the conversation.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 19, 2016, 09:06:18 AM
Why are some Trump supporters turning a blind eye towards Russian meddling?

Because the conclusion that it was Russia backed is based on speculation, not evidence.  Russia had the capability and the motive is what the conclusion is based on.

Because we are not going to stop it except by playing superior defense.  Assuming it was Russia, they are an independent state actor.  They will not stop...has not stopped.  They are still trying to hack people today.

Because this was not targeted at just the US.  This was part of a larger effort to target politics around the world. 

Because there is nothing to be done.  The US Constitution guarantees that people cannot be silenced.  What would you suggest, that we tell everyone from Russia to shut up?  We block websites outside the US then they don't conform to....whose standard?  That we censor websites and media inside the US?   WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

We are adults. Bad things happen and then we move on.

-------------------------

I will tell you that I think Bill was right - Comey's last minute announcement to Congress that they were investigating new evidence made Clinton look completely corrupt, not trustworthy, and even criminal.  Before that she was just mostly corrupt, not trustworthy, and kinda criminal.  That is where her support evaporated.

But Clinton did this to herself too. Comey might have moved the overall needle a little, but it was Clinton's "no coal, anti industry" message combined with Trump's "jobs, jobs, jobs" message that turned the rust belt.  If Clinton had campaigned in those states rather than snickering about how Republicans were wasting their time, she might of made a difference.  If she had said "we feel your pain and we're going to make the rust belt into the new silicon belt because rebirth is the cycle of life and there will be jobs for everyone", she would not have lost.  TRUMP WON BY TURNING ABOUT 700,000 VOTERS IN PA, MI and WI.  Without these voters, it would have been a close but Trump would have come up short NH and NV in running the table.

But there was the question - COULD she even have campaigned?  She was ill through a great deal of the election.  Her campaign schedule was cut way back. I still believe she is hiding a serious health issue, one that would evoke extreme sympathy but no votes if people knew.  My personal guess based on evidence is mid-late stage 3 Parkinson's because she has publicly exhibited all the symptoms and used several phrases specific to the disease. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 09:16:08 AM
FTFY.  Unless you worked in this section of the intelligence agencies, it's unlikely that you would have had access.

It has nothing to do with working in the intelligence agency although it should be obvious someone had to develop the intelligence in the agency and would have access to it as the producer.  Access for others to classified requires three items, the appropriate security clearance,  the need to know and the willingness of the entity that controls the information to share it .  I would assume Congressmen selected to conduct a hearing would have both the need to know and the appropriate clearances.  What the intel owner is willing to reveal depends on other things.  It was always a challenge to get intel to reveal information to people who had a need to know.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 09:17:37 AM
To add to that, Clinton's campaign philosophy was "run the clock out".  She and her campaign felt they already had everything wrapped up and all they needed to do was wait until election day.  The MSM did such a hatchet job of becoming her media support that her campaign had believed their own bullshit.  Useless poll after useless poll showing Hillary as the winner and the MSM mocking and berating Trump added to their over confidence.  Campaign in WI?  Ha! They'll vote democrat no matter what!   Trump win in MI and PA?  Ha! That's part of the "Blue Wall" and Trump could never win there!  Florida? Ha! The Latinos will come out in force for Hillary!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 09:29:12 AM
Because the conclusion that it was Russia backed is based on speculation, not evidence.  Russia had the capability and the motive is what the conclusion is based on...

You don't know what evidence exists, nor do I.  That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I'm relying on what our intelligence professionals are saying and presumably they have something that makes them come to that conclusion.



Because this was not targeted at just the US.  This was part of a larger effort to target politics around the world.
 

So why disparage an investigation into Russian hacking as merely Dem sour grapes?  Oh those pesky Russians do this to everyone so we shouldn't respond.  Did you hear that Ukraine? Don't feel bad about Crimea or your insurrection supported by Russian military--they do this to everyone.  Poland, Latvia, etc etc, don't expect any help from the West as we prefer to let Russians do whatever the hell they want.

Because there is nothing to be done.  The US Constitution guarantees that people cannot be silenced.  What would you suggest, that we tell everyone from Russia to shut up?  We block websites outside the US then they don't conform to....whose standard?  That we censor websites and media inside the US?   WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

We are adults. Bad things happen and then we move on.
.

Unbelievable.  "Shame on Russia, ket's move on" is our response to interference in our internal affairs.  That's the best you can do?

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 09:36:57 AM
To add to that, Clinton's campaign philosophy was "run the clock out".  She and her campaign felt they already had everything wrapped up and all they needed to do was wait until election day.  The MSM did such a hatchet job of becoming her media support that her campaign had believed their own bullshit.  Useless poll after useless poll showing Hillary as the winner and the MSM mocking and berating Trump added to their over confidence.  Campaign in WI?  Ha! They'll vote democrat no matter what!   Trump win in MI and PA?  Ha! That's part of the "Blue Wall" and Trump could never win there!  Florida? Ha! The Latinos will come out in force for Hillary!

I sure wish I had a yawning emoji.  Your answer to everything is "Hillary this Obama that, you can't believe anything on MSN".  You really need to take a deep breath and rest that noggin of yours so you can come up with something different.  You should start now on thinking up better reasons to explain why Trump didn't come through on his promises four years from now.  I don't think HRC's 2016 campaign debacle will suffice.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 09:46:05 AM
I sure wish I had a yawning emoji.  Your answer to everything is "Hillary this Obama that, you can't believe anything on MSN".  You really need to take a deep breath and rest that noggin of yours so you can come up with something different.

You need to do some critical thinking and stop acting like a useful idiot waiting on your daily dose of MSM talking points.  Go back and read what you quoted me on, that was an evaluation of why Clinton lost the election, something you still cannot accept and get your panties twisted up when someone does speak to it.  Reminds me of a little kid sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling "NA NA NA NA NA I'm not listening to you!"


You should start now on thinking up better reasons to explain why Trump didn't come through on his promises four years from now.  I don't think HRC's 2016 campaign debacle will suffice.

 So now you're clairvoyant?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 19, 2016, 09:52:41 AM
Oh, for heavens sake.

There is no substantive evidence yet of Russia's government initiating deliberate election interference.

Earlier you said that "Some Trump supporters" are ignoring the Russian interference aspect and focusing on the email contents. You are correct to say "some."  I would say the majority of Trump supporters are waiting to see what transpires.

You have to understand, though, that given the dozen or so things the Democrats have blamed their losses on in this election, the "crying wolf" effect has kicked in big time.

The weapons-grade cognitive dissonance on the left is truly a spectacle to behold in wonder.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 10:33:35 AM
Oh, for heavens sake.

There is no substantive evidence yet of Russia's government initiating deliberate election interference.

Earlier you said that "Some Trump supporters" are ignoring the Russian interference aspect and focusing on the email contents. You are correct to say "some."  I would say the majority of Trump supporters are waiting to see what transpires.

You have to understand, though, that given the dozen or so things the Democrats have blamed their losses on in this election, the "crying wolf" effect has kicked in big time.

The weapons-grade cognitive dissonance on the left is truly a spectacle to behold in wonder.

I'm sure there are Trump supporters who are outraged at the possibility of Russian interference in American politics and are demanding an investigation and retaliation if warranted.  Unfortunately those Trump supporters aren't the ones on this board who "pivot" (to use their term) to the campaign just concluded instead of what this thread topic happens to be.  I don't doubt there are Dems who blame Russian hacking on HRC's loss.  I personally think she was a poor candidate based on the fact that she had too much baggage going into the election and Russian hacking wasn't a huge factor.  The fact that Russian hacking wasn't a deciding factor doesn't excuse their attempt to interfere. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 19, 2016, 11:11:45 AM
I wonder if the Libs support the harassment of electors including death threats.  Does the MSM even mention this in their coverage?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 11:18:01 AM
I wonder if the Libs support the harassment of electors including death threats.  Does the MSM even mention this in their coverage?

"Any means necessary"
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on December 19, 2016, 11:24:11 AM
I wonder if the Libs support the harassment of electors including death threats.  Does the MSM even mention this in their coverage?

Of course they do.  To the Progressives (Democrats) the ends always justify the means because they are in the right to try to create their perfect, little UTOPIA on Earth.  The only problem is their elite gets to decide what is right, wrong, fair, legal, illegal.......Constitution be damned!!!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 11:28:17 AM
I wonder if the Libs support the harassment of electors including death threats.  Does the MSM even mention this in their coverage?

My god, is this Russia threatening electors?  Is this the Democratic Party national committee threatening electors? Or are they some  anonymous wackos who threaten every celebrity they disagree with to include those targets of Trump's nasty tweets?  There's a difference between reporting isolated instances of threats by unknown wackos and reporting indications that specific individuals or organizations are making threats.  I have seen reports in the media of electors being threatened,  by the way, but there's little value in publicizing anonymous threats because it may just encourage these wackos if they get a lot of unwarranted attention.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 11:32:21 AM
I have seen reports in the media of electors being threatened,  by the way, but there's little value in publicizing anonymous threats because it may just encourage these wackos if they get a lot of unwarranted attention.

 You really don't understand the MSM do you? 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 19, 2016, 11:44:46 AM
It has nothing to do with working in the intelligence agency

It has everything to do with a need to know.  Where did you say you had a clearance before?  You should know this inside and out.

If you don't work in the intelligence agencies - or even if you do work there but not in the right group - then you do not have access to the full intelligence.  You will get a summary, a boiled down opinion, a consensus opinion or sometimes just the director's choice of which opinion to float.

I'm worried that I even have to say this.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 19, 2016, 11:47:52 AM
You should start now on thinking up better reasons to explain why Trump didn't come through on his promises four years from now. 

Because Democrats started sabotaging efforts the day he won. 

Every time a Dem stands up and tries to take Trump down, you get the blame for whatever doesn't get accomplished.  And since your bitching is so well documented in the MSM, you can't deny it.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 03:39:44 PM
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w464/flybywire1959/the%20russians%20did%20it_zpsqj0pa4rb.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Jim Logajan on December 19, 2016, 03:52:04 PM
It's doubly sad that Americans take the word of foreign provocateurs interfering with internal American politics.
Like all these foreign leaders did:
Just some of the over 61 quotes found here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/06/47-not-very-positive-things-foreign-leaders-have-said-about-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a6c0f77937c0 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/06/47-not-very-positive-things-foreign-leaders-have-said-about-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a6c0f77937c0)

There was also the the UK attempt to ban Trump:

The "Block Donald J Trump from UK entry" petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003)

Though it eventually triggered the "Don't ban Trump from the United Kingdom " counter-petition which didn't do as well:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114907 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114907)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on December 19, 2016, 04:20:49 PM
Like all these foreign leaders did:
  • “His discourse is so dumb, so basic." Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa.
  • "Trump is an irrational type." Chinese Finance Minister Lou Jiwei.
  • "You [Trump] are a disgrace not only to the GOP but to all America. Withdraw from the U.S. presidential race as you will never win." Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Alsaud.
  • “A person who thinks only about building walls — wherever they may be — and not building bridges, is not Christian." Pope Francis.
  • "It's not a man I would vote for, I can tell you that [...] I hope that the American people, and I think they will, choose someone else who is better equipped for this task." Swedish Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist.
  • “A lot of what Donald Trump says makes for a more unstable world." Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg.
  • Trump reflects "the ultraconservative, racist, and war-like thinking that is incubated in the roots of the empire." Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega.
  • “He is not predictable and this unpredictability is a danger. And therefore it is not in the common interest, nor in the interest of the west, that we have President Donald Trump.” Elmar Brok, German MEP and chair of the European parliament’s foreign affairs committee.
Just some of the over 61 quotes found here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/06/47-not-very-positive-things-foreign-leaders-have-said-about-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a6c0f77937c0 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/06/47-not-very-positive-things-foreign-leaders-have-said-about-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a6c0f77937c0)

There was also the the UK attempt to ban Trump:

The "Block Donald J Trump from UK entry" petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003)

Though it eventually triggered the "Don't ban Trump from the United Kingdom " counter-petition which didn't do as well:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114907 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114907)

So I look at the source of each and every one of those quotes and I think, God Bless America, you got it right.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 04:29:12 PM
It has everything to do with a need to know.  Where did you say you had a clearance before?  You should know this inside and out.

If you don't work in the intelligence agencies - or even if you do work there but not in the right group - then you do not have access to the full intelligence.  You will get a summary, a boiled down opinion, a consensus opinion or sometimes just the director's choice of which opinion to float.

I'm worried that I even have to say this.

I've said this before.  I was an operator who had a need to know and security clearances up to and including special access programs.  What experience do you claim?  Do you even know the distinction between intelligence and (combat) information? Intel folks are extremely  protective of what they know and how they got it to the point that oftentimes they have to be forced to give it up to people with a need to know.  It's a balancing act that I had to deal with on a daily basis and we operators (at least the good ones) never acted on information we were given unless we knew how confident the analyst who made the assessment was in his source(s).
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 04:37:46 PM
Like all these foreign leaders did:
  • “His discourse is so dumb, so basic." Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa.
  • "Trump is an irrational type." Chinese Finance Minister Lou Jiwei.
  • "You [Trump] are a disgrace not only to the GOP but to all America. Withdraw from the U.S. presidential race as you will never win." Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Alsaud.
  • “A person who thinks only about building walls — wherever they may be — and not building bridges, is not Christian." Pope Francis.
  • "It's not a man I would vote for, I can tell you that [...] I hope that the American people, and I think they will, choose someone else who is better equipped for this task." Swedish Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist.
  • “A lot of what Donald Trump says makes for a more unstable world." Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg.
  • Trump reflects "the ultraconservative, racist, and war-like thinking that is incubated in the roots of the empire." Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega.
  • “He is not predictable and this unpredictability is a danger. And therefore it is not in the common interest, nor in the interest of the west, that we have President Donald Trump.” Elmar Brok, German MEP and chair of the European parliament’s foreign affairs committee.
Just some of the over 61 quotes found here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/06/47-not-very-positive-things-foreign-leaders-have-said-about-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a6c0f77937c0 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/06/47-not-very-positive-things-foreign-leaders-have-said-about-donald-trump/?utm_term=.a6c0f77937c0)

There was also the the UK attempt to ban Trump:

The "Block Donald J Trump from UK entry" petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003)

Though it eventually triggered the "Don't ban Trump from the United Kingdom " counter-petition which didn't do as well:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114907 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114907)

Do you understand the difference between voicing an opinion and hacking into an American computer system and seeding supposed emails from this illegal activity to favor one American candidate over another or alternatively, cast doubt as to the legitimacy of the American political system?

When Premier Smith from Country X says Trump is a dangerous psychopath, I can agree with him or disagree with him but I can also blow him off completely and say he should mind his own business but he can say whatever he wants to 'cuz I ain't his mother.  If Premier Smith orders a cyber attack against the US to corrupt our election, that's a whole different kettle of fish.  Can you see the difference or should I use smaller words?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 05:00:38 PM
Do you understand the difference between voicing an opinion and hacking into an American computer system and seeding supposed emails from this illegal activity to favor one American candidate over another or alternatively, cast doubt as to the legitimacy of the American political system?

 You're really going off the deep end on this.

 There is no evidence of "seeding supposed emails", and you know that.  Now you are simply making shit up to make your case.

 All emails that were exposed, none, not one, was proven to be false or altered.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on December 19, 2016, 05:01:53 PM
Do you understand the difference between voicing an opinion and hacking into an American computer system and seeding supposed emails from this illegal activity to favor one American candidate over another or alternatively, cast doubt as to the legitimacy of the American political system?

When Premier Smith from Country X says Trump is a dangerous psychopath, I can agree with him or disagree with him but I can also blow him off completely and say he should mind his own business but he can say whatever he wants to 'cuz I ain't his mother.  If Premier Smith orders a cyber attack against the US to corrupt our election, that's a whole different kettle of fish.  Can you see the difference or should I use smaller words?

Yeah, about that, the emails are authentic.   The link below explains how each email is "cryptographically non-repudiable".  In the beginning of this Hillary's campaign tried the "but they have been tampered with "  slant, but no go, they are real.

https://wikileaks.org/DKIM-Verification.html
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 05:15:35 PM
You're really going off the deep end on this.

 There is no evidence of "seeding supposed emails", and you know that.  Now you are simply making shit up to make your case.

 All emails that were exposed, none, not one, was proven to be false or altered.

You misunderstood me.  I make no assertions about the validity of any emails.  Seeding referred to selectively releasing emails as the campaign progressed. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Username on December 19, 2016, 05:40:29 PM
Do you understand the difference between voicing an opinion and hacking into an American computer system and seeding supposed emails from this illegal activity to favor one American candidate over another or alternatively, cast doubt as to the legitimacy of the American political system?

The only reason the democrats' emails were the ones released is because they were the ones successfully hacked.  No republican emails were released because they were better at protecting their servers.  Would republican emails have been released if they were successfully hacked?  Who knows?  But given hacking attempts on both parties, we can't assume that the hacker preferred one party over the other.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 19, 2016, 06:09:20 PM
I've said this before.  I was an operator who had a need to know and security clearances up to and including special access programs.  What experience do you claim?  Do you even know the distinction between intelligence and (combat) information? Intel folks are extremely  protective of what they know and how they got it to the point that oftentimes they have to be forced to give it up to people with a need to know.  It's a balancing act that I had to deal with on a daily basis and we operators (at least the good ones) never acted on information we were given unless we knew how confident the analyst who made the assessment was in his source(s).

Submarines.  Funny, I dealt with a lot of SEALs but never heard a single one refer to themselves as an operator.  It's a title to denote the competence, you can't say it about yourself.

This information probably would not have been available for you unless you were involved in the analysis. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 06:23:29 PM
Submarines.  Funny, I dealt with a lot of SEALs but never heard a single one refer to themselves as an operator.  It's a title to denote the competence, you can't say it about yourself.

This information probably would not have been available for you unless you were involved in the analysis.

Never said I was a SEAL or any other flavor of "special" operator although I worked with a fair amount of them.  You don't (didn't) get around much did you.  I've dealt with plenty of operators and special operators who had very limited experience outside their very cloistered community.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 06:32:36 PM
Never said I was a SEAL or any other flavor of "special" operator although I worked with a fair amount of them.  You don't (didn't) get around much did you.  I've dealt with plenty of operators and special operators who had very limited experience outside their very cloistered community.

So how does an F-111 EWO work with Navy SEALs? 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 06:35:55 PM
So how does an F-111 EWO work with Navy SEALs? 
The only reason the democrats' emails were the ones released is because they were the ones successfully hacked.  No republican emails were released because they were better at protecting their servers.  Would republican emails have been released if they were successfully hacked?  Who knows?  But given hacking attempts on both parties, we can't assume that the hacker preferred one party over the other.

Like I said before, sometimes you know you're hacked and sometimes you don't.  All you can say with certainty with what has been released is that the DNC was hacked and DNC emails published.  You're assuming that since very few (not zero) Rep emails were published, that someone didn't hack into their system.  Someone could have hacked into their system and consciously decided not to do anything with what they found. It doesn't make any difference if both political parties got hacked or not.  The fact that one did and it was assessed by our intelligence agencies to be Russian hackers directed by the highest echelons of Russian government should be enough to trigger American outrage.  I haven't seen any reports saying the same effort was expended trying to get into the RNC server as was outlayed attacking the DNC server.  Maybe the RNC defenses were great and successfully defended against a major attack or maybe they didn't need to be that good because they weren't the primary target.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 19, 2016, 06:37:17 PM
So how does an F-111 EWO work with Navy SEALs?

By being a combat mission planner at a joint/combined headquarters.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 19, 2016, 06:40:59 PM
.  Maybe the RNC defenses were great and successfully defended against a major attack or maybe they didn't need to be that good because they weren't the primary target.

WTF?

 Seriously, you need to stop digging that hole.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on December 19, 2016, 06:57:08 PM
Submarines.  Funny, I dealt with a lot of SEALs but never heard a single one refer to themselves as an operator.  It's a title to denote the competence, you can't say it about yourself.

This information probably would not have been available for you unless you were involved in the analysis.

Witmo at work:

(http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/921176/100207808/stock-photo-unhappy-operator-100207808.jpg)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 20, 2016, 08:59:58 AM
Witmo at work:

(http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/921176/100207808/stock-photo-unhappy-operator-100207808.jpg)

good one.  It even resembles me.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on December 20, 2016, 09:40:31 AM
The devotion to whatever current lie the left is floating to blame the devastating series of losses at the polls this year would be admirable if it weren't so sad.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 21, 2016, 07:25:57 PM
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us-intervention-foreign-elections-20161213-story.html

Quote
The CIA has accused Russia of interfering in the 2016 presidential election by hacking into Democratic and Republican computer networks and selectively releasing  emails. But critics might point out the U.S. has done similar things.

The U.S. has a long history of attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries – it’s done so as many as 81 times between 1946 and 2000, according to a database amassed by political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 22, 2016, 01:16:53 AM
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us-intervention-foreign-elections-20161213-story.html
Because we've done it in the past, you're saying it's acceptable for foreign countries to interfere with our internal politics?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 22, 2016, 06:52:10 AM
Because we've done it in the past, you're saying it's acceptable for foreign countries to interfere with our internal politics?


 Actually I posted an article, I didn't comment on it as I would leave that to the reader to make up his own mind.

 Nice spin by attempting to make it appear I'm "saying something" that I never did.

 And another comment. Over in the DNC email thread you have demanded people to post emails and give their opinions because your bias is that Hillary and the DNC have never done anything wrong and you want to prove it by having others do the research so you can twist it to make a feeble point.  Yet you have been asked time and time again to prove how the Russians supposedly interfered in he US election and all you can do is point to a NPR article as proof.  You have been asked, multiple times, just how did the Russians interfere in the election, what method did they use, and you spin and won't answer it.

 You are either too lazy to do any reading or research a topic or if you do it won't jive with your preconceived notions so you just simply ignore it.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 22, 2016, 08:45:25 AM

 Actually I posted an article, I didn't comment on it as I would leave that to the reader to make up his own mind.

 Nice spin by attempting to make it appear I'm "saying something" that I never did.

 And another comment. Over in the DNC email thread you have demanded people to post emails and give their opinions because your bias is that Hillary and the DNC have never done anything wrong and you want to prove it by having others do the research so you can twist it to make a feeble point.  Yet you have been asked time and time again to prove how the Russians supposedly interfered in he US election and all you can do is point to a NPR article as proof.  You have been asked, multiple times, just how did the Russians interfere in the election, what method did they use, and you spin and won't answer it.

 You are either too lazy to do any reading or research a topic or if you do it won't jive with your preconceived notions so you just simply ignore it.
I asked a question.  All you had to do is answer No, it is unacceptable for a foreign country to attempt to interfere with an American election.  Since you didn't answer no, we all have to assume you agree with the posted article and that interference in another country[s internal politics is okay since the US has done it to others.  Just answer the question and we won't have to make assumptions based on an article you chose to disseminate. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 22, 2016, 08:54:15 AM
I asked a question.  All you had to do is answer No, it is unacceptable for a foreign country to attempt to interfere with an American election.  Since you didn't answer no, we all have to assume you agree with the posted article and that interference in another country[s internal politics is okay since the US has done it to others.  Just answer the question and we won't have to make assumptions based on an article you chose to disseminate.

 You are so full of shit.  Again, all you are attempting to do is put words into a post that wasn't said. 

 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on December 22, 2016, 08:58:03 AM
I asked a question.  All you had to do is answer No, it is unacceptable for a foreign country to attempt to interfere with an American election.  Since you didn't answer no, we all have to assume you agree with the posted article and that interference in another country[s internal politics is okay since the US has done it to others.  Just answer the question and we won't have to make assumptions based on an article you chose to disseminate.

I can't wait until the evidence of Putin helping Trump win the election is released.  Of course that will probably never happen because I don't think it is true.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 22, 2016, 09:06:02 AM
I can't wait until the evidence of Putin helping Trump win the election is released.  Of course that will probably never happen because I don't think it is true.

 Notice right after the EC voted on Monday the story pretty much died in the media?  A few blips here and there, but the big crisis is not such a priority anymore.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 22, 2016, 09:13:04 AM
You are so full of shit.  Again, all you are attempting to do is put words into a post that wasn't said.

So you refuse to answer the question to clarify your post.  just like your hero who "hears people say" and then repeats what "people say" to enflame his supporters but doesn't have the guts to say what he thinks.  I asked a question and you refuse to answer.  There I said it again.  I own what I say and don't just post crap on a board and tell people to make up their own mind.  I've made up my mind--you're full of (sh)it.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 22, 2016, 09:36:08 AM
So you refuse to answer the question to clarify your post.

 You want me to reply with the answer you selected.  That's not how this works.  You prove again and again you are incapable of reading comprehension, incapable of individual research and incapable of forming an opinion unless someone tells you what that opinion should be.  This is what the democrats refer to as a "useful idiot".

just like your hero who "hears people say" and then repeats what "people say" to enflame his supporters but doesn't have the guts to say what he thinks.

WTF are you blabbering about now?

I asked a question and you refuse to answer.  There I said it again.  I own what I say and don't just post crap on a board and tell people to make up their own mind.  I've made up my mind--you're full of (sh)it.

 My answer doesn't meet your agenda.  It's the same MO you use over and over. And it gets really old.

You're a one trick pony.

 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 22, 2016, 09:46:27 AM

 My answer doesn't meet your agenda.  It's the same MO you use over and over. And it gets really old.

You're a one trick pony.

I must be getting old as I don't recall seeing an answer, just more posturing. 
'
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 22, 2016, 10:17:03 AM
http://www.npr.org/2016/12/16/505890551/fbi-cia-agree-that-russia-was-trying-to-help-trump-win-the-election
By that time, Obama had enough time to coerce any opinion he wanted from his intelligence service.

You don't believe that?  Then why were you so anxious to blame Bush for the intelligence he got before Gulf War II?

And even if it was Putin and official government actors that did the hacking, and even if the purpose was to force Hillary to lose, then how did she manage to win the popular vote, which you liberals are so quick to point out?  If their goal was to make people NOT vote for Hillary, they failed miserably.

Also, if it was Putin, then what can we do about it in the face of the fact that we do the same things.  I for one sure as hell hope we do NOT cease our covert hacking of foreign governments.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 22, 2016, 02:09:59 PM
By that time, Obama had enough time to coerce any opinion he wanted from his intelligence service.

You don't believe that?  Then why were you so anxious to blame Bush for the intelligence he got before Gulf War II?

And even if it was Putin and official government actors that did the hacking, and even if the purpose was to force Hillary to lose, then how did she manage to win the popular vote, which you liberals are so quick to point out?  If their goal was to make people NOT vote for Hillary, they failed miserably.

Also, if it was Putin, then what can we do about it in the face of the fact that we do the same things.  I for one sure as hell hope we do NOT cease our covert hacking of foreign governments.

You don't know the first thing about our intelligence agencies if you think the President can coerse them to fabricate intelligence.

About the Gulf War intel:  The intel agencies knew the intel that was being released by the Bush administration was unreliable and they placed caveats on it.  At no time did someone say, "all our intelligence agencies have concluded with high confidence that Saddam Hussein has stocks of chemical and biological weapons and is actively working toward a nuclear bomb,"  At most, they told Bush, we have some intel that is less than 100% reliable that Saddam may have WMD that he's hiding and we have some third party intel that he may be seeking yellow cake uranium for a nuke weapons program, same caveat. Bush took that and ran with it, never once relaying the concerns of the intelligence agencies as to the reliabilty of the intel sources. It's a big difference today when directors of our intelligence agencies have stated that they have a consensus that Russian government directed hacking against the DNC occurred during the time leading up to the election.

We hack, they hack.  The difference is we don't use our hacking of their systems to directly subvert their political system.  Are you really arguing that their interference in our election process was flawed because they didn't guarantee a popular vote victory for Donald Trump as well as an electoral victory?  I'd say if they got their candidate elected they could declare mission accomplished.  Personnally, I don't believe they were responsible for Trump's victory.

But, I really don't care how effective or ineffective their hacking proved to be.  The fact that they attempted to interfere is enough to require a response that will indicate we won't tolerate interference in our political process.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 22, 2016, 06:42:48 PM
You don't know the first thing about our intelligence agencies if you think the President can coerse them to fabricate intelligence.

I didn't say he would coerce them to fabricate intelligence.  I said he had enough time to coerce an opinion.  And you don't know the first thing about politics if you don't think that can happen.

Do you understand the difference between intelligence and an opinion?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 22, 2016, 07:25:54 PM
I didn't say he would coerce them to fabricate intelligence.  I said he had enough time to coerce an opinion.  And you don't know the first thing about politics if you don't think that can happen.

Do you understand the difference between intelligence and an opinion?
He must have worked really hard to coerse the same opinion from every intelligence agency.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 22, 2016, 08:15:22 PM
He must have worked really hard to coerse the same opinion from every intelligence agency.
That's what he's best at.  Especially when he replaced all the competent people with his cronies.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 23, 2016, 05:48:08 AM
Because we've done it in the past, you're saying it's acceptable for foreign countries to interfere with our internal politics?

You want to keep bitching about an answer, here's an answer. Foreign countries ARE influencing our elections. They did before this one, they will again in the future, and there is not a thing we can do about it short of abridging the First Amendment right to free speech.  Even that might not do it, we would also have to cut off communiciations with the rest of the world.

The answer is probably that we should have an education system which produces adults capable of thinking for themselves.  And a media willing to fairly screen out the outside noise.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 06:49:09 AM
I guess the only way to get Republicans to denounce Russian hacking is if the Russians were to manipulate the stock market..  With Donald Trump  and his tweets, they have no need of that.  Who would have thought Americans have become so  polarized that they accept  Russians pulling our strings and pitting ourselves against each other. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on December 23, 2016, 07:04:45 AM
I guess the only way to get Republicans to denounce Russian hacking is if the Russians were to manipulate the stock market..  With Donald Trump  and his tweets, they have no need of that.  Who would have thought Americans have become so  polarized that they accept  Russians pulling our strings and pitting ourselves against each other.

Come on Witmo, Republicans absolutely denounce Russian hacking and all other hacking for that matter.  What I don't accept is that there is any proof that the hacking was done to help Trump, I don't believe there is any proof of that, nor does that make sense.  Your argument is typical of a liberal, where a specific fact is disputed so you take liberty and  broaden the accusation to the ridiculous.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on December 23, 2016, 07:57:23 AM
Poor witmo. The unwashed conservatives refuse to accept his massive intelligence and don't want to concede that Russia WANTED Donald Trump as President because they couldn't deal with queen Hilary. Considering Hilary sold a huge amount of our uranium to Russia in exchange for 'donations' and she oversaw the pathetic Russian Reset debacle, I can see why such a qualified 'expert' as witmo would conclude that Vlad would rather deal with an unknown than an incompetent idiot.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 08:16:48 AM
Come on Witmo, Republicans absolutely denounce Russian hacking and all other hacking for that matter.  What I don't accept is that there is any proof that the hacking was done to help Trump, I don't believe there is any proof of that, nor does that make sense.  Your argument is typical of a liberal, where a specific fact is disputed so you take liberty and  broaden the accusation to the ridiculous.

I missed the part where Lucifer, et al, denounced Russian hacking interference in our election process.  First they refuse to accept the fact, then they claim it had no impact but no where do they admit to the fact that Russia attempted to influence an American election by hacking into the DNC. It's either a total fabrication from HRC supporters and BHO who forced all our intelligence agencies to come to a false conclusion for political reasons or it doesn't matter since it didn't make a difference.  You keep trying to explain this all away as an attack on the outcome of the election and I keep saying it's not about how effective or ineffective their efforts were but the fact that they did it for whatever reason is unacceptable and should be denounced by EVERY American not just the ones who lost the election.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2016, 09:23:24 AM
I missed the part where Lucifer, et al, denounced Russian hacking interference in our election process.

 I missed where any proof was ever shown by a reliable source (other than liberal MSM) that the hacking actually occurred.  All you have produced is a NPR article and you bloviating about what intelligence knows.


  First they refuse to accept the fact, then they claim it had no impact but no where do they admit to the fact that Russia attempted to influence an American election by hacking into the DNC.

 I'm still waiting to see those "facts".  Care to cite a reliable reference?


  You keep trying to explain this all away as an attack on the outcome of the election and I keep saying it's not about how effective or ineffective their efforts were but the fact that they did it for whatever reason is unacceptable and should be denounced by EVERY American not just the ones who lost the election.

 So, for the umpteenth time, exactly how did the Russians using hacking interfere with the election?  What did they do exactly?  Was it voting machines?  Did they switch votes electronically?  Did they attempt mind control?  What?

 BTW, notice after Monday, December 19th, after the Electoral College voted, that the story of Russian hacking has died?  All of the sudden it's not a big story anymore as it didn't have the effect that some had hoped for (delay of voting).
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2016, 09:35:20 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/12/23/the_illogic_of_russian_hacking_132636.html

Quote
We are being asked now to believe that the Russians wished to influence a U.S. presidential election. This master stroke of statecraft by Putin was designed, however, to bring to power a man, Donald J. Trump, who has pledged to rebuild the United States militarily and economically. Trump has detailed his intent to build a national missile defense, modernize our strategic arsenal to match that of Russia and China, ensure our ability to dominate the high seas with an expanded and more technologically advanced navy, guarantee our ability to project power with an improved air force, and have an intelligence and cyber capability second to none. How any of this is in the Russian strategic interest is yet to be explained.

By contrast, Hillary Clinton, following the policies of Barack Obama, stated she would, by not building missile defenses—no small strategic matter—continue the policy of vulnerability to Russian, Chinese, and Iranian ballistic missiles; delay the upkeep and modernization of our nuclear weaponry; and, pursue a reduction of our conventional military forces. On traditional strategic grounds, it defies logic that Putin would have preferred Trump to Clinton.

On economic affairs the contrast is even more stark. Trump has called for “complete energy independence” with expanded oil, fracking and natural gas production. Hillary Clinton has opposed each of these on environmental grounds. Russia, whose economy and wealth is based on exporting their vast oil and gas reserves, would very much desire a world where the United States is dependent on world oil markets for their energy requirements. Energy independence is the last policy the Russians would want a U.S. president to pursue. Here again, a Clinton presidency was in the Russian interest.

If Putin's goal was to demonstrate that he could mettle in U.S. politics and in so doing shake our faith in our democratic institutions, he could certainly have done so without hurting the political fortunes of Hillary Clinton. Surely the good of Russia’s economy and Russia’s strategic position in the world outweighs whatever short term benefit there might be in embarrassing the United States and interfering in our political process.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 10:59:37 AM
Still in denial I see.
No reliable sources indicate Russian hacking?  Are you kidding?  Every national intelligence entity has agreed that Russian government directed hacking of the DNC has occurred and yet you're in full denial because DT hasn't said so and he's the only source you're willing to believe?  Really? Have you totally ceded any sort of rational thought to what DT tweets?  I guess the first thing DT should do upon taking office is dismiss every government employee charged with developing intelligence since they're obviously all puppets being controlled by a faliled politician and a lame duck president.  it's all a conspiracy against his (and Putin's) attempt at making America great again.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 11:02:12 AM
Poor witmo. The unwashed conservatives refuse to accept his massive intelligence and don't want to concede that Russia WANTED Donald Trump as President because they couldn't deal with queen Hilary. Considering Hilary sold a huge amount of our uranium to Russia in exchange for 'donations' and she oversaw the pathetic Russian Reset debacle, I can see why such a qualified 'expert' as witmo would conclude that Vlad would rather deal with an unknown than an incompetent idiot.

I see Putin is discussing his motives for hacking with Number 7.  I'll direct any questions I have about Russian motivation to Number 7 since he has the inside track,  Just curious, do you do conference calls with VP and DT or do they contact you separately?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2016, 11:07:43 AM
No reliable sources indicate Russian hacking?  Are you kidding?  Every national intelligence entity has agreed that Russian government directed hacking of the DNC has occurred and yet you're in full denial because DT hasn't said so and he's the only source you're willing to believe?

 You've been asked again and again to cite the references for "every (meaning all) intelligence entity has agreed".  So please show us where you are getting that information. Source? Link? Secret notes?

  Really? Have you totally ceded any sort of rational thought to what DT tweets? 

 Has nothing to do with Trump. I'm again asking you to back up your assertion.

  I guess the first thing DT should do upon taking office is dismiss every government employee charged with developing intelligence since they're obviously all puppets being controlled by a faliled politician and a lame duck president.  it's all a conspiracy against his (and Putin's) attempt at making America great again.

 With each reply you are growing more and more delusional.  Why don't you just admit you have nothing, no references, no links, not anything to back up your claims. 

 And you once again spin away from this question: What was it specifically the Russians did to supposedly hack the election?  Was it vote tampering?  What was it?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 23, 2016, 11:25:41 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/12/23/the_illogic_of_russian_hacking_132636.html
Quote
We are being asked now to believe that the Russians wished to influence a U.S. presidential election. This master stroke of statecraft by Putin was designed, however, to bring to power a man, Donald J. Trump, who has pledged to rebuild the United States militarily and economically. Trump has detailed his intent to build a national missile defense, modernize our strategic arsenal to match that of Russia and China, ensure our ability to dominate the high seas with an expanded and more technologically advanced navy, guarantee our ability to project power with an improved air force, and have an intelligence and cyber capability second to none. How any of this is in the Russian strategic interest is yet to be explained.
But read the whole article! It is quite good on the subject of hacking.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2016, 11:26:41 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/12/23/the_illogic_of_russian_hacking_132636.htmlBut read the whole article! It is quite good on the subject of hacking.

 I did read it, and you're right, it's a good article.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 23, 2016, 11:36:03 AM
I'm convinced that Assange is truthful when he says the leaks didn't come from the Russians. In 10 years, no one has ever shown him to be wrong. However, here is a possibility I don't think anyone has considered:  Maybe the DNC was hacked twice - once by the leaker, and once by the Russians, but the Russians did not give the information to anyone.  The way the DNC and especially Clinton left themselves open to hacking means there could have been multiple hackers at work.  Including North Korea and China.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Username on December 23, 2016, 12:24:41 PM
At this point what difference does it make? (tm)  We won't have a new election.  Hillary won't be president.  So what if it was the Russians, the NORKs, or little green vixens from outer space?  The left in general, and the DNC in particular, should get its shit together and get some real security on its servers, suck it up, and try to do better next time.  Boo fucking hoo!  The Russians hacked our servers.  Well, whose fault is it for letting them?

/rant off/
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 12:47:53 PM
taken from the Chicago Tribune:

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., on Sunday again decried Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 presidential race and called for a select Senate committee to investigate the country's cyber activities during the election.

On CNN's "State of the Union," McCain told host Jake Tapper that there was "no doubt" Russia interfered with the election.

"We need to get to the bottom of this," he said. "There's no doubt they were interfering. There's no doubt. The question is now, how much and what damage? And what should the United States of America do?"

Earlier this month, the CIA concluded in a secret assessment that Russia meddled in the election to help Donald Trump win the presidency. FBI Director James B. Comey and Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. agreed with the CIA's assessment.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on December 23, 2016, 12:51:13 PM
THERE YOU GO!!!!
Comey said so! That's all the proof necessary.
The most partisan FBI Director in history is the sole source for all knowledge!
Hooray.
witmo found the holy grail!!!!!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 01:16:28 PM
THERE YOU GO!!!!
Comey said so! That's all the proof necessary.
The most partisan FBI Director in history is the sole source for all knowledge!
Hooray.
witmo found the holy grail!!!!!

Exactly what side is Director Comey partisan to?  He can't be in HRC's camp since he screwed her campaign big time so are you saying he's making crap up to benefit his next boss, DT? 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2016, 01:20:57 PM
taken from the Chicago Tribune:

 Seriously, that's your "proof".   

 I noticed there was no mention of "all of the intelligence agencies" agreeing as well.

 Very lame attempt Witmo, very lame.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2016, 01:23:28 PM
taken from the Chicago Tribune:

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., on Sunday again decried Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 presidential race and called for a select Senate committee to investigate the country's cyber activities during the election.

On CNN's "State of the Union," McCain told host Jake Tapper that there was "no doubt" Russia interfered with the election.

"We need to get to the bottom of this," he said. "There's no doubt they were interfering. There's no doubt. The question is now, how much and what damage? And what should the United States of America do?"

That's hard to believe, given McCain's love of Trump.

McCain is the most despicable Senator with an R next to his name, and he exceeds most Ds in the area of despicability.   I take nothing away from him as a former POW and his bravery under torture, but that doesn't mean he is a good man.  He is a mean, vicious, spiteful, hateful asshole.  The only reason he survived as a POW is because he was too mean and self centered to die.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 01:34:16 PM
Seriously, that's your "proof".   

 I noticed there was no mention of "all of the intelligence agencies" agreeing as well.

 Very lame attempt Witmo, very lame.

I don't sit in on the intelligence briefings that Senator McCain gets to.  Sorry if you don't trust anything unless it has DT's hashtag attached do it.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2016, 01:48:18 PM
I don't sit in on the intelligence briefings that Senator McCain gets to.  Sorry if you don't trust anything unless it has DT's hashtag attached do it.

 You keep sticking to that as to try to make your argument more believable.  If you had an ounce of reading comprehension you would see I don't ever refer to Trump as the source for my argument.  Trump is just a part of the story, a very small part.

 What I don't trust is an extremely biased MSM that has shown again and again to outright lie to keep a narrative going.  You have made two really lame attempts at providing any proof to your argument.

 So again Witmo, answer these questions. If you don't understand go find an 8 year old to explain it to you.

1)  What exactly did the Russians supposedly do when they supposedly hacked the campaign?  How exactly did the hack affect the outcome of the election?  What was hacked?

2) You have claimed time and time again that "all of the intelligence agencies agree that the Russians hacked the election".  Please provide a citation to prove this.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 23, 2016, 02:15:01 PM
I am sorry to say it, and wish it were not something that even had to occur to me, but our national intelligence agencies have, I believe, been politicized, especially under O.

I do not trust them entirely.

Comey has helped fuel this awareness. Part of it comes from the fact that said agencies seem squirrelly and dodgy in being definitive about much. I realize they have secrets to keep, but if they are not sure of something, they should keep quiet.

I, too, noticed the falloff of news about Russian hacking after Dec. 19. Hmmm.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2016, 02:16:08 PM
I, too, noticed the falloff of news about Russian hacking after Dec. 19. Hmmm.

 Yep, old news now.  It didn't work as planned.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 23, 2016, 02:27:33 PM
Looks like a duck ...

http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/ah-so-putin-didnt-hack-those-emails-after-all/
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 02:34:34 PM




1)  What exactly did the Russians supposedly do when they supposedly hacked the campaign?  How exactly did the hack affect the outcome of the election?  What was hacked?

I only care about the fact that they hacked the DNC with the intention of favoring one candidate over another.  This I got from what FBI/CIA have concluded.  Senator McCain and others have been briefed and unequivocally have stated they have high confidence in the conclusions reached by the intelligence agencies of the United States.   



2) You have claimed time and time again that "all of the intelligence agencies agree that the Russians hacked the election".  Please provide a citation to prove this.

I've linked the Tribune interview with Senator McCain in which he said as much and more.  I don't have access to the sources as Sen McCain does so either he's telling the truth or flat out lying in which case I would think the Directors would publicly say he's making stuff up and they deny his statement of their conclusions.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2016, 02:38:11 PM
I only care about the fact that they hacked the DNC with the intention of favoring one candidate over another.  This I got from what FBI/CIA have concluded.  Senator McCain and others have been briefed and unequivocally have stated they have high confidence in the conclusions reached by the intelligence agencies of the United States.   



I've linked the Tribune interview with Senator McCain in which he said as much and more.  I don't have access to the sources as Sen McCain does so either he's telling the truth or flat out lying in which case I would think the Directors would publicly say he's making stuff up and they deny his statement of their conclusions.
None of this jives with all of your hypotheses about those that believed the intelligence agencies were liars re: Gulf War WMDs.

You sir, are a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 02:44:02 PM
Looks like a duck ...

http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/ah-so-putin-didnt-hack-those-emails-after-all/

You discount CBS and NBC but believe the drivel linked above?  Okay, I get it.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 02:45:48 PM
None of this jives with all of your hypotheses about those that believed the intelligence agencies were liars re: Gulf War WMDs.

You sir, are a hypocrite.

I won't argue with you.  I've found it difficult to win an argument with someone incapable of reason.   I've stated the difference between Intel in the Gulf War 2 and today's issues with intel but you sir seem incapable of seeing any difference so Merry Christmas and happy New Year,
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 23, 2016, 02:50:28 PM
You discount CBS and NBC but believe the drivel linked above?  Okay, I get it.
I'm sure you read the article thoroughly and thoughtfully. Unz is one of my trusted sites because they don't defend either "side" exclusively. They have published articles excoriating Trump.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2016, 03:05:45 PM
I won't argue with you.  I've found it difficult to win an argument with someone incapable of reason.   I've stated the difference between Intel in the Gulf War 2 and today's issues with intel but you sir seem incapable of seeing any difference so Merry Christmas and happy New Year,
If you did describe a difference, I missed it.  I would be willing to read it if you could point me to it.

But unless you have some insight that I have overlooked, I see no difference.

You think those that believed the intel about WMDs were liars, yet you think those that don't believe the intel about Russian hacking are idiots.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2016, 05:35:26 PM
I only care about the fact that they hacked the DNC with the intention of favoring one candidate over another.  This I got from what FBI/CIA have concluded.  Senator McCain and others have been briefed and unequivocally have stated they have high confidence in the conclusions reached by the intelligence agencies of the United States.   



I've linked the Tribune interview with Senator McCain in which he said as much and more.  I don't have access to the sources as Sen McCain does so either he's telling the truth or flat out lying in which case I would think the Directors would publicly say he's making stuff up and they deny his statement of their conclusions.

And round and round he goes!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 23, 2016, 08:36:23 PM
Still in denial I see.
No reliable sources indicate Russian hacking?  Are you kidding?  Every national intelligence entity has agreed that Russian government directed hacking of the DNC has occurred and yet you're in full denial because DT hasn't said so and he's the only source you're willing to believe?  Really? Have you totally ceded any sort of rational thought to what DT tweets?  I guess the first thing DT should do upon taking office is dismiss every government employee charged with developing intelligence since they're obviously all puppets being controlled by a faliled politician and a lame duck president.  it's all a conspiracy against his (and Putin's) attempt at making America great again.


And that affected the election how?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 23, 2016, 09:13:59 PM
If you did describe a difference, I missed it.  I would be willing to read it if you could point me to it.

But unless you have some insight that I have overlooked, I see no difference.

You think those that believed the intel about WMDs were liars, yet you think those that don't believe the intel about Russian hacking are idiots.
It's become obvious  to me that I'm wasting my time here trying to have a serious discussion.  Close your eyes to Russian interference, close your eyes to global warming and continue believing that facts are an illusion and truth is only what you find is convenient. Good luck and have a Merry Christmas
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on December 23, 2016, 09:21:03 PM
It's become obvious  to me that I'm wasting my time here trying to have a serious discussion.  Close your eyes to Russian interference, close your eyes to global warming and continue believing that facts are an illusion and truth is only what you find is convenient. Good luck and have a Merry Christmas

No one is ignoring Russian interference. IF any was done it needs addressing.  What is being ignored is the content of the emails.

No one is ignoring "global warming."  What is being ignored is science, scientists, and data that sheds doubt on  the supporting data, data collection methods, data doctoring and massaging methods, political goals of the proponents, and proposed drastic anti-US "solutions."

Merry Christmas to you too.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 24, 2016, 12:30:06 PM
No one is ignoring Russian interference. IF any was done it needs addressing.  What is being ignored is the content of the emails.

No one is ignoring "global warming."  What is being ignored is science, scientists, and data that sheds doubt on  the supporting data, data collection methods, data doctoring and massaging methods, political goals of the proponents, and proposed drastic anti-US "solutions."

Merry Christmas to you too.

There's a separate thread on email content and no one has been able to quote a specific email indicating criminal activity.  The vast majority of climate scientist agree man is having an impact on global warming. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on December 24, 2016, 01:29:20 PM
It's become obvious  to me that I'm wasting my time here trying to have a serious discussion.  Close your eyes to Russian interference, close your eyes to global warming and continue believing that facts are an illusion and truth is only what you find is convenient. Good luck and have a Merry Christmas
The reason you can't have a serious discussion, is because you won't admit that you are a hypocrite.  You say that the intelligence claiming there were WMDs was a lie, yet you reject that those same intelligence officials would lie about Russia.  The only difference is where your alliance lies.

If it is true that the Russians hacked us, (and it probably is), then the people that need to be punished are the people that allowed it to happen.  We will get nowhere trying to punish the Russians.  They will never quit hacking us just as we will never quit hacking them.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 24, 2016, 02:04:45 PM
The reason you can't have a serious discussion, is because you won't admit that you are a hypocrite.  You say that the intelligence claiming there were WMDs was a lie, yet you reject that those same intelligence officials would lie about Russia.  The only difference is where your alliance lies.

If it is true that the Russians hacked us, (and it probably is), then the people that need to be punished are the people that allowed it to happen.  We will get nowhere trying to punish the Russians.  They will never quit hacking us just as we will never quit hacking them.

Punish the victim, that's real smart.  Name calling is about the only way to argue your case.  Go for it.  I hope it makes you feel like you've really achieved something in life but most people with a clue know better.  Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 24, 2016, 02:58:52 PM
There's a separate thread on email content and no one has been able to quote a specific email indicating criminal activity.  The vast majority of climate scientist agree man is having an impact on global warming.
The intent of Assange is and always has been transparency for the people, uncovering their governments for them. Check out their website and Twitter feed that I linked earlier.

He created a lot of expectation leading up to the election and slowly released the emails showing the DNC's scuzzball behavior and manipulation of the press, and kept hinting at bigger exposes that never came.

Essentially, the leaks created interest, and corroborated the fact that HRC was untrustworthy, relating to her FBI investigation, which is indeed for criminal behavior. She grossly compromised America's security. It would be very interesting to see what was in some of the 30,000 emails she deemed worthy of complete destruction, including Bleachbit.

As for the climate, I have linked elsewhere to the best pro/con analysis site in existence, to my knowledge. You apparently ignored it, and also ignored the comments I and others made regarding the failure of models to reflect observable trends, and a number of other extremely cogent and germane reasons to question certain "assumptions" assumed to be true.

Discussion is welcome. Sweeping aside alternative viewpoints with the assumption I am ignoring yours doesn't make you the healthy communicator here.

And yes, Merry Christmas!

Title: Re: Climate Hoax
Post by: Mase on December 24, 2016, 03:17:30 PM


As for the climate, I have linked elsewhere to the best pro/con analysis site in existence, to my knowledge. You apparently ignored it, and also ignored the comments I and others made regarding the failure of models to reflect observable trends, and a number of other extremely cogent and germane reasons to question certain "assumptions" assumed to be true.



This is long, over an hour, but worth watching.  With an open mind. 
It pretty much exposes the facts and motives of the climate change folks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg)

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 27, 2016, 07:44:08 PM
Ok, here's the game plan.  Obama is just laying another potential trap for Trump.

Obama is going to lay out sanctions on Russia for the perceived "interfering in the US election".  This helps delegitimization Trump, and if Trump attempts to change any of the sanctions once in office then the democrats can jump up and down proclaiming "See!  He was involved with the Russians!  And now he's helping them out!  See! See!"

 Look for more gamesmanship from BHO in the next 24 days.  January 20th can't get here fast enough.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-white-house-is-scrambling-for-a-way-to-punish-russian-hackers-via-sanctions/2016/12/27/0eee2fdc-c58f-11e6-85b5-76616a33048d_story.html?utm_term=.2d7fed782d1a
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on December 27, 2016, 09:08:02 PM
Ok, here's the game plan.  Obama is just laying another potential trap for Trump.

Obama is going to lay out sanctions on Russia for the perceived "interfering in the US election".  This helps delegitimization Trump, and if Trump attempts to change any of the sanctions once in office then the democrats can jump up and down proclaiming "See!  He was involved with the Russians!  And now he's helping them out!  See! See!"

 Look for more gamesmanship from BHO in the next 24 days.  January 20th can't get here fast enough.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-white-house-is-scrambling-for-a-way-to-punish-russian-hackers-via-sanctions/2016/12/27/0eee2fdc-c58f-11e6-85b5-76616a33048d_story.html?utm_term=.2d7fed782d1a

Here's the problem for Barry though,  Trump doesn't give a shit about his games, Barry's criticism will roll right off Trump.   Trump will do what he feels is best for the country.  It will be a beautiful thing to watch, Barry's head will explode when he finally understands this.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on December 27, 2016, 09:35:04 PM
Still in denial I see.
No reliable sources indicate Russian hacking?  Are you kidding?  Every national intelligence entity has agreed that Russian government directed hacking of the DNC has occurred and yet you're in full denial because DT hasn't said so and he's the only source you're willing to believe?  Really? Have you totally ceded any sort of rational thought to what DT tweets?  I guess the first thing DT should do upon taking office is dismiss every government employee charged with developing intelligence since they're obviously all puppets being controlled by a faliled politician and a lame duck president.  it's all a conspiracy against his (and Putin's) attempt at making America great again.

PROVE...that is, demonstrate the truth...that it was the Russian Government behind the hacking.  You cannot because "Russia" is a guess based on Cui Bono - who benefits.

But there is someone who benefits more from Russia hacking than Russia...and that is the American Democrat Party.  If you want to use the principle of assigning blame based on who benefits from the action, then I blame Democrats for making the story up in order to have something to bitch about why they lost.  They benefit far more than Russia would.

I'm an independent voter and I'm rather disgusted with Democrats right now.  So keep pushing this and you'll get Trump reelected in 2020 before he even takes office in January.  The Democrat Party's behavior to this loss is convincing me that they are not to be trusted with the office.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 29, 2016, 08:42:29 AM
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/312049-obama-under-pressure-to-prove-russian-interference-in-election
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on December 31, 2016, 06:12:01 PM
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/ap/ap_nation/us-gives-detailed-look-at-russia-s-alleged-election-hacking/article_2f7cdfa1-e9a1-5e7f-b633-52078c848902.html
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on December 31, 2016, 06:18:12 PM
http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/did-russia-tamper-with-the-2016-election-bitter-debate-likely-to-rage-on/

Quote
Sadly, the JAR, as the Joint Analysis Report is called, does little to end the debate. Instead of providing smoking guns that the Russian government was behind specific hacks, it largely restates previous private-sector claims without providing any support for their validity. Even worse, it provides an effective bait and switch by promising newly declassified intelligence into Russian hackers' "tradecraft and techniques" and instead delivering generic methods carried out by just about all state-sponsored hacking groups.

"This ultimately seems like a very rushed report put together by multiple teams working different data sets and motivations," Robert M. Lee, CEO and Founder of the security company Dragos, wrote in a critique published Friday. "It is my opinion and speculation that there were some really good government analysts and operators contributing to this data and then report reviews, leadership approval processes, and sanitation processes stripped out most of the value and left behind a very confusing report trying to cover too much while saying too little."
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on January 01, 2017, 04:54:45 AM
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/ap/ap_nation/us-gives-detailed-look-at-russia-s-alleged-election-hacking/article_2f7cdfa1-e9a1-5e7f-b633-52078c848902.html

I asked for proof.

The article you quoted states "...most detailed report yet on accusations that Russia..."  An accusation is not proof, especially since the accusation comes from US intelligence, who are under pressure to prove that it is Russia but obviously cannot.

And that "most detailed report" that makes it sound like it drives the point home is a very technical discussion about the use of sql injection attacks, shortened URLs, spearfishing and the use of hacked websites on legitimate domains to enhance the spearfishing. On the topic of the identity of it being Russia, it has nothing to add.  It identifies two specific actors as Russian Intelligence, calling them "Actors likely associated with RIS" (Russian Intelligence Services).  Even this "most detailed report" will not definitively state that they are in fact part of Russian Intelligence.  Because they do not know.

https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf

Wake up. It is frightening that we have to depend on Putin to be the bigger man and not start a war over this.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on January 01, 2017, 06:02:09 AM
Biggest FAKE NEWS story of 2016 - Russian Hacking.  Get a life Dems, and stop blaming everything and everyone else but Hillary, Obama, and your FAILED, and DESTRUCTIVE policies.

Maybe ask Debbie Wasserman Schultz to lunch?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 01, 2017, 07:22:01 AM
given all the hand-wringing over the intelligence reports "causing" us to invade Iraq, you'd think the liberals would want something more than accusations before starting a war.



Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 01, 2017, 07:58:21 AM
More will be revealed but I doubt everything will be publicly disclosed for security reasons. I'm convinced,
but you're obviously in denial and would dispute this if the hacker knocked on your door and confessed after showing you his GRU identity card and signed written orders.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on January 01, 2017, 08:23:31 AM
That kind of junior high school answer is exactly why nobody believes you.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on January 01, 2017, 08:31:10 AM
More will be revealed but I doubt everything will be publicly disclosed for security reasons. I'm convinced,
but you're obviously in denial and would dispute this if the hacker knocked on your door and confessed after showing you his GRU identity card and signed written orders.

Well, such orders and ID card would be in Russian so I wouldn't know them from his gym membership card and contract. 

However, if the intelligence agencies could positively link them to Russian Intelligence then I would be convinced.  But they haven't, they have always qualified it with words that indicate it's a guess.  So they DON'T know, they are making a guess that reaches a conclusion they have been pressured to reach.  Obama and the Democrats in general WANT this to be Russia so that Obama can go out on a high note and side track Trump from the start.  They would love nothing better than for Trump to fail and America to NOT be great. 

But that isn't going to happen because Trump already has the relationship and has said what he is going to do when he is in office.  Putin has shown restraint in the face of a pretty big insult because you don't take a swing at a lame duck who will be a has-been in 19 days.  And probably because he knows that Obama is just stirring the pot. 

Then I look at it in the next step.  If I assume that it was Russian Intelligence, then....what?  We aren't going to war with them and our cyber security is frankly a joke.  Nothing we do will stop Russian (or Chinese, Indian, Israeli, Turkish, North Korean, etc) intelligence from trying to hack systems.  It isn't a crime of any kind for a foreign entity to publish information which influences US elections and I would object to any attempt to make it one.  This is globalization, welcome to the rest of the world.  Guess what, some other powerful countries are more conservative than we are.

Regardless of what another country publishes, I bring this back to the media.  If they had credibility, if they provided complete and fair coverage, then nobody would bother reading myfakenews.com or whatever website they're getting the lies from.  The media does not want to recognize their culpability in this because the cause is their bias and a trust rating that is only a little above Congress.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 01, 2017, 09:25:54 AM
Deny, deny deny...
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 01, 2017, 09:36:41 AM
Deny, deny deny...

No proof, no proof, no proof......
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on January 01, 2017, 09:54:39 AM
No proof, no proof, no proof......

And you know if the Obama Admin, Hillary, and the Dems had proof the media would still be screaming about it 24/7.  To me that is the proof there is NO PROOF, and it most likely didn't happen, and if it did, didn't affect a damn thing.  Nice try Dems.  Way to be really, really childish, and poor losers. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: acrogimp on January 01, 2017, 09:58:14 AM
Point 1 - there is zero evidence of any kind that the Russians, or in fact anyone hacked the election in terms of the actual vote tallies, so calling it election hacking is demonstrably false and is being done deliberately to distract from the actual cause of the loss, Hillary is a shitty candidate, Obama tried to saddle himself up at the end and told people their vote was for his legacy, and there was ample evidence that the Democrat party essentially rigged their primary process in a very anti-democratic way - kind of like how they blamed an obscure youube video for the cause of the military assault on the Benghazi consulate

Point 2 - releasing damaging insider information is part and parcel of any election cycle, but this is NOT the election itself, this is news and the two are not and have never been synonymous -  that it was so easy to do against the dem's and appears to have been unsuccessful against the Republicans suggests we the people made the right choice in terms of who can be trusted with sensitive information

Point 3 - what was relased has not been denounced as false or manipulated in any meaningful or convincing way, they are butthurt it got out, not that they were caught colluding with a biased and partisan media, not that they cheated their own primary voters, not that they turn out to be the very fascist monsters they have long accused the right of being - but that they got caught

Unless and until any on the left come to grips with those 3 truths there is no point in even trying to have a conversation.

'Gimp
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on January 01, 2017, 10:38:37 AM
Quote
Talk about disappointments. The US government’s much-anticipated analysis of Russian-sponsored hacking operations provides almost none of the promised evidence linking them to breaches that the Obama administration claims were orchestrated in an attempt to interfere with the 2016 presidential election.

The 13-page report, which was jointly published Thursday by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, billed itself as an indictment of sorts that would finally lay out the intelligence community’s case that Russian government operatives carried out hacks on the Democratic National Committee, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and Clinton Campaign Chief John Podesta and leaked much of the resulting material.

While security companies in the private sector have said for months the hacking campaign was the work of people working for the Russian government, anonymous people tied to the leaks have claimed they are lone wolves. Many independent security experts said there was little way to know the true origins of the attacks.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/01/01/russian-hacking-white-house-fail/

Oh well, maybe it was Reagan that stole the election, or maybe Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny conspired. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on January 01, 2017, 11:36:04 AM
Deny, deny deny...

Quote from: Trump
“I just want them to be sure, because it’s a pretty serious charge, and I want them to be sure. And if you look at the weapons of mass destruction, that was a disaster, and they were wrong,” Trump said, referencing failed intelligence in the lead-up to the Iraq War as a reason for skepticism.

“I think it’s unfair if they don’t know,” he said. “And I know a lot about hacking. And hacking is a very hard thing to prove.”

You are making the same mistake that Bush and the Republicans made.  But you only have 19 days to do it before you look like a complete idiot because you were told that you were doing it.

This is a disaster and you don't know that you're right.  You only think that you are.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on January 01, 2017, 12:07:27 PM
So this is unrelated, but I think they were right about the WDM.   I think GWB took one for the team, one of many.   I can't for the life of me figure out why though.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on January 01, 2017, 02:23:27 PM
So this is unrelated, but I think they were right about the WDM.   I think GWB took one for the team, one of many.   I can't for the life of me figure out why though.

You have to understand what the claims were about WMDs.  There was no nuclear program underway in Iraq and no new chemical weapons program.  There were WMDs that had been reported as destroyed but had not been.  I believe there was a better than average chance that Saddam had aspirations of both, but we will never know that.

Bush made a mistake based on bad intel.  Fortunately Obama does not have enough time or personal authority left to screw this up very much.  That is the source of Putin's restraint, he simple disregards what Obama does as a temporary inconvenience.  It will change in 19...call it 18 days from now.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on January 01, 2017, 02:34:42 PM
You have to understand what the claims were about WMDs.  There was no nuclear program underway in Iraq and no new chemical weapons program.  There were WMDs that had been reported as destroyed but had not been.  I believe there was a better than average chance that Saddam had aspirations of both, but we will never know that.

Bush made a mistake based on bad intel.  Fortunately Obama does not have enough time or personal authority left to screw this up very much.  That is the source of Putin's restraint, he simple disregards what Obama does as a temporary inconvenience.  It will change in 19...call it 18 days from now.

The Democrats VOTED for the invasion of Iraq based on our intel, and our allied intel.  It wasn't just Bush.  Not really a Bush fan, btw. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 01, 2017, 02:37:05 PM
The Democrats VOTED for the invasion of Iraq based on our intel, and our allied intel.  It wasn't just Bush.  Not really a Bush fan, btw.

Another FACT the dems would rather everyone forget.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 01, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
http://nypost.com/2017/01/01/washington-post-retracts-story-about-russian-hack-at-vermont-utility/
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: acrogimp on January 01, 2017, 03:14:37 PM
The Democrats VOTED for the invasion of Iraq based on our intel, and our allied intel.  It wasn't just Bush.  Not really a Bush fan, btw.
It is not just that they voted for it, it is that they INSISTED on a show vote, then turned their backs in the men and women over there in order to score political points against W.

Fucking pathetic whiny assholes.

'Gimp
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on January 01, 2017, 03:19:15 PM
It is not just that they voted for it, it is that they INSISTED on a show vote, then turned their backs in the men and women over there in order to score political points against W.

Fucking pathetic whiny assholes.

'Gimp

This,  they were a beacon of hope for the soon to be Taliban in the midst of a total asskicking by our forces.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Anthony on January 01, 2017, 03:23:39 PM
This,  they were a beacon of hope for the soon to be Taliban in the midst of a total asskicking by our forces.

Hmmm, sounds very similar to a little dispute in southeast Asia a while ago. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 01, 2017, 03:37:17 PM
The Democrats VOTED for the invasion of Iraq based on our intel, and our allied intel.  It wasn't just Bush.  Not really a Bush fan, btw.


They were all tricked dontchaknow.  Democrats are never culpable for anything.  This election is the perfect example.  Hillary sucked as a candidate, here favorables were never good.  When she speaks she has the screechy voice that no one likes to hear.  She appeared in front of small crowds when compared to Trump.  She didn't campaign in WI or MI because she smug enough to think she had them sewn up.  They believed the polls that were skewed by the MSM as they were trying to tilt the election to Hillary.  In the end their ego took them down.


I find it interesting that so muc h attention is being paid on the "alleged" Russian hacking, yet nothing is made of the way the MSM worked so hard to get Hillary elected.  Watching how they all cried like babies on election when they found out she lost is just great. What a bunch of little pussies when the discovered that all of their hard work (and money) had gone for naught. 


Maybe instead of looking for something or someone else to blame their loss on they should own and start working to understand why they were abandoned by middle class America.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 01, 2017, 03:45:08 PM
Another FACT the dems would rather everyone forget.

Why even bother spending billions of dollars on an intelligence community and then ignore their findings.  Deny all you want.  I'm waiting for Trump's revelations he's promised for sometime this week.  I'm sure his buddy Putin has told him the real story about how it's all Hillary's doing and he's going to share that with the nation.  Fire all the intelligence agencies.  Trump will just contract with the GRU for intelligence.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 01, 2017, 04:15:42 PM
Why even bother spending billions of dollars on an intelligence community and then ignore their findings.  Deny all you want.  I'm waiting for Trump's revelations he's promised for sometime this week.  I'm sure his buddy Putin has told him the real story about how it's all Hillary's doing and he's going to share that with the nation.  Fire all the intelligence agencies.  Trump will just contract with the GRU for intelligence.

Grasping at straws........
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on January 01, 2017, 04:22:52 PM
The Democrats VOTED for the invasion of Iraq based on our intel, and our allied intel.  It wasn't just Bush.  Not really a Bush fan, btw.

It was Bush and Cheney that sold it.  They were wrong then because they had bad intel.

Today Obama is wrong but Democrats should know better both because of the warning of what Bush went through and because the intelligence agencies will not definitively say that it was the Russian government and only even say Russia back because of political pressure to do so.  Unless something else big happens in the next two weeks, this is the last thing Obama is going to get tagged with.  Last impressions are lasting impressions.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on January 01, 2017, 08:19:11 PM
Liberal Democrats know only one thing and that is that the agenda is to be pursued at any and all costs.
When they screw up it is never their fault because they are so pure and perfect and then they go toxic on those that disagree.
Deplorables
Sexist
Homophobes
Islamaphobes
Supporters of poison air and water who want to shove grandma off the cliff
These people whine so much it is impossble to tell when they aren't whining because no one has seen that in so long.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 01, 2017, 08:28:54 PM
Let us not forget the number one rule for Democrats.


It is the seriousness of the charge and not the nature of the evidence.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 02, 2017, 07:56:11 AM
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/12/kremlin_response_to_obamas_expulsions_laughter.html
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 02, 2017, 08:02:27 AM
Even the uber liberal Rolling Stone says something stinks:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/something-about-this-russia-story-stinks-w458439
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 02, 2017, 08:26:01 AM
Even the uber liberal Rolling Stone says something stinks:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/something-about-this-russia-story-stinks-w458439

I have to laugh when you link a story from Rolling Stone to bolster your case.  Lots of hard facts in that one, not.  We might as well dismantle the intelligence agencies because nothing they come up with after WMD in Iraq will ever be given any credence by Trumpists unless it should fit their agenda and then the other side will play the WMD card.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 02, 2017, 08:34:39 AM
I have to laugh when you link a story from Rolling Stone to bolster your case.  Lots of hard facts in that one, not.  We might as well dismantle the intelligence agencies because nothing they come up with after WMD in Iraq will ever be given any credence by Trumpists unless it should fit their agenda and then the other side will play the WMD card.

I'm not "bolstering" my case, I'm showing how this is being reported.  And even the ultra liberal rag Rolling Stone is not buying the bullshit.

Obama has made himself a laughing stock by pursuing this idiotic agenda.  Only the close minded ultra liberals who are still reeling with butt hurt are clinging to this diatribe as a way to explain their horrific loss t the hands of the Clintons.
 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 02, 2017, 08:44:05 AM
Why can't they just say the Hillary sucked as a candidate and ran a shitty campaign.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 02, 2017, 08:49:59 AM
Why can't they just say the Hillary sucked as a candidate and ran a shitty campaign.

But...but...but....It was her turn!!   She was owed this!!  The polls!!!  She couldn't lose!!!!  Her name was Clinton!!!!

She was sooooo qualified!!!!

But....but...but!
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on January 02, 2017, 09:02:18 AM
How could "the most qualified person ever to run for president" lose?  Had to be hacking...or something.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on January 02, 2017, 09:02:44 AM
I have to laugh when you link a story from Rolling Stone to bolster your case.  Lots of hard facts in that one, not.  We might as well dismantle the intelligence agencies because nothing they come up with after WMD in Iraq will ever be given any credence by Trumpists unless it should fit their agenda and then the other side will play the WMD card.
When i challenge you about the WMD intelligence, I am not ridiculing our intelligence services. I am ridiculing your hypocritically partisan decision on when to believe them. I happen to still believe there were WMDs in Iraq but we gave them enough time to get them out of country.
If an American corporation gets hacked, the government blames the company. But if Dems get hacked, they blame everyone else.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 02, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
I'm not "bolstering" my case, I'm showing how this is being reported.  And even the ultra liberal rag Rolling Stone is not buying the bullshit.

Obama has made himself a laughing stock by pursuing this idiotic agenda.  Only the close minded ultra liberals who are still reeling with butt hurt are clinging to this diatribe as a way to explain their horrific loss t the hands of the Clintons.

Why do you keep linking any attack on Russian hacking with Hillary's loss?  I've said it once and I'll say it a hundred times, Putin should not be hacking into any American systems whether they're public utilities or political parties and the issue is just that.   Whether or not he was effective in aiding Trump's campaign is a separate issue and I have stated before that I don't care because Trump is the President elect and that ship has sailed.  This does not excuse Russia from meddling in American politics and give it immunity from the consequences. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 02, 2017, 04:04:58 PM
When i challenge you about the WMD intelligence, I am not ridiculing our intelligence services. I am ridiculing your hypocritically partisan decision on when to believe them. I happen to still believe there were WMDs in Iraq but we gave them enough time to get them out of country.
If an American corporation gets hacked, the government blames the company. But if Dems get hacked, they blame everyone else.

What utter BS.  Where does the government blame the victim of hacking?  Can the government criticize a corporation for poor cyber security if upon inspection that's the case?  You keep bringing up WMD and my criticism of the Bush administration for directing intelligence agencies to find anything that would indicate WMD in Iraq.  The agencies gave him what he wanted with the stipulation its veracity was suspect.  They chose to run with it.   This is different from our intelligence agencies saying with confidence that Russia hacked the DNC but you're too stupid to see a distinction.  Too bad, I'm tired of trying to explain it to you.  Some people are just too dense.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 02, 2017, 04:17:24 PM
Why do you keep linking any attack on Russian hacking with Hillary's loss? 

The whole origin of the supposed "Russian hacking" story is because the democrats have attempted (lamely) to use it as the reason Hillary lost.  "Russia meddling in the election" is the narrative, except no one can say exactly how they supposedly meddled.  Even Obama launched his "sanctions" in part due to the supposed "meddling".


I've said it once and I'll say it a hundred times, Putin should not be hacking into any American systems whether they're public utilities or political parties and the issue is just that.

But yet you nor anyone else can say for sure "Putin" (I suppose you mean the Russian government) was behind the supposed hacks.

 You are jumping up and down about supposed hacking. I got news for you, hacking goes on day and night, 24/7 from virtually every country on the planet with an Internet connection.  What goes on outside our borders in other countries is really not under our (US) control.  What we can do is put in effective security programs, just like we do with phone communications and video communications when we desire secure connections for information.

 Your friends at the DNC and Hillary were shear fucking idiots in the way the handled emails. But yet instead of admitting to their stupidity they insist the "Russians" did it (again with zero proof).

  Whether or not he was effective in aiding Trump's campaign is a separate issue and I have stated before that I don't care because Trump is the President elect and that ship has sailed.  This does not excuse Russia from meddling in American politics and give it immunity from the consequences.

 Countries have "meddled" in US politics for years, and the US has done its fair share of meddling in other countries politics.  It's a bit sanctimonious for the US government to point their fingers at other countries and decry how they are acting when they are just as guilty of the same crime. 

 And finally, there were players during this election that didn't suffer hacking because they were smart enough to put the proper security in place.  Hint: It wasn't the DNC or Hillary.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 02, 2017, 04:23:00 PM
  This is different from our intelligence agencies saying with confidence that Russia hacked the DNC but you're too stupid to see a distinction. 

Total made up bullshit.  You apparently have the reading comprehension of a third grader or just intellectually dishonest.

Too bad, I'm tired of trying to explain it to you.  Some people are just too dense.

Pot, meet kettle.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 02, 2017, 04:40:17 PM
Total made up bullshit.  You apparently have the reading comprehension of a third grader or just intellectually dishonest.

Pot, meet kettle.
.

Keep on denying that our intelligence agencies have high confidence that the Russian Government, ie. Putin, directed hacking against an American election.  Just like President Trump denies he ever said this or that despite it being on video.  Deny, Deny, Deny.  And when that gets's old just bring up Hillary.   You really need to freshen up your argument strategy.  I fully expect you to be defending Trump a couple of years down the road by saying "well, it would have been worse if Hillary were president.,.."  Mark my words.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 02, 2017, 07:03:15 PM
Keep on denying that our intelligence agencies have high confidence that the Russian Government, ie. Putin, directed hacking against an American election. 

And all you can point to is a poorly written report that is full of vagueness and never actually acknowledges what you keep alleging.  And please remind us again how you had a security clearance 20+ years ago in the Air Force that somehow gives you insight into what's happening now.  Got news for you sparky, but others on this board served as well, and yes we had security clearances as well, but we aren't foolish enough to insert that into this situation as it has no bearing.

 
Just like President Trump denies he ever said this or that despite it being on video.  Deny, Deny, Deny.  And when that gets's old just bring up Hillary.   You really need to freshen up your argument strategy.  I fully expect you to be defending Trump a couple of years down the road by saying "well, it would have been worse if Hillary were president.,.."  Mark my words.

 I'm not going to "Mark your words" on anything because you keep up this inane diatribe.  Your party has a phrase they like to use for people such as yourself, it's called a "useful idiot" because you swallow whatever bullshit they put out as gospel.

 You're a disciple of the MSM and believe every word.  The DNC is proud to have you as one of theirs.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on January 02, 2017, 07:36:32 PM
The proof of Hillary's misdeeds, corruption, and illegality is much more convincing than any of this crap about Russian hacking, yet the libs believe one but not the other.  Very strange.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 02, 2017, 07:48:33 PM
Why do you keep linking any attack on Russian hacking with Hillary's loss?  I've said it once and I'll say it a hundred times, Putin should not be hacking into any American systems whether they're public utilities or political parties and the issue is just that.   Whether or not he was effective in aiding Trump's campaign is a separate issue and I have stated before that I don't care because Trump is the President elect and that ship has sailed.  This does not excuse Russia from meddling in American politics and give it immunity from the consequences.


Do you feel the same way about the U.S.?  Should we not be hacking other governments?


BTW, is it really hacking when one of the people that was hacked, Podesta, handed over his credentials?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on January 02, 2017, 07:56:19 PM

Do you feel the same way about the U.S.?  Should we not be hacking other governments?


BTW, is it really hacking when one of the people that was hacked, Podesta, handed over his credentials?

This, Podesta was phished, he is dumb as dirt.   When I think hacking I think high tech probing, password breakers and lots of programming to defeat safeguards.   Podesta fell for a scam barely more sophisticated than the Nigerian Prince email.  He is a dope, I can only imagine when he logged in to the fake site and entered his credentials, what a dope.   Did I say he is a dope?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: bflynn on January 02, 2017, 08:14:12 PM
Keep on denying that our intelligence agencies have high confidence that the Russian Government, ie. Putin, directed hacking against an American election. 

We will. They don't know it.  They do not know and they have been pressured into reaching this conclusion. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on January 02, 2017, 08:15:38 PM
The fury that comes back when anyone doubts the made up nonsense about Russian hacking is remarkably the same as that which automatically follows when one doubts the man made global warming lies.
How interestingly convenient...
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 03, 2017, 06:31:06 AM
And confirmed once again at the source.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/01/02/assange_to_hannity_our_source_was_not_the_russian_government.html

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 03, 2017, 06:36:36 AM
Here's another take on this:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/01/02/russians-hacking-podesta-emails-democrats-glenn-reynolds-column/96081006/

Gotta love this:

Quote
  “Breaking: State Dept expels 20 Nigerian diplomats after John Podesta fails to receive $1 million wire transfer from nephew of General Okezi."
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 03, 2017, 08:39:53 AM
And confirmed once again at the source.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/01/02/assange_to_hannity_our_source_was_not_the_russian_government.html

Assange thinks his wikileaks is the only distributor of DNC emails.  He's angry because he's missing out on all the free publicity if wikileaks gets mentioned on the news in relation to hacking. Even if his particular source wasn't connected to the Russian government, it doesn't prove or disprove Russian government attempts to interfere with an American election process.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 03, 2017, 08:49:17 AM
Assange thinks his wikileaks is the only distributor of DNC emails.  He's angry because he's missing out on all the free publicity if wikileaks gets mentioned on the news in relation to hacking. Even if his particular source wasn't connected to the Russian government, it doesn't prove or disprove Russian government attempts to interfere with an American election process.

 So please provide the links you have proving who else had access to the Podesta and DNC emails.   Seems to me you are now just making it up as you go to keep the narrative going.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: acrogimp on January 03, 2017, 10:25:19 AM
So please provide the links you have proving who else had access to the Podesta and DNC emails.   Seems to me you are now just making it up as you go to keep the narrative going.
Please provide specific links to lamestream news stories claiming other than Wikileaks as source for the Podesta/DNC subject - CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc.

We'll wait but won't be holding our breathe. 

The whole unmasking of the alt-left government-media-complex was specifically by Wikileaks, and Wikileaks has repeatedly come out and stated the Russians (government) were not involved.

Funny how when Wikileaks was fucking with W that Assange was a hero but as soon as he turned on Obama he can't be trusted.

I will say it again, the only people for whom there is actual evidence of electoral collusion and manipulation is the DNC and the alt-left government-media complex - first they fucked crazy Bernie and his supporters over with the rigged primary system, and then they openly colluded (and were caught) weaponizing the mass media against one candidate and to overtly favor another - THIS is what should piss everybody off, our representative republic only functions as-designed with an informed public and that requires a free and independent media.

'Gimp
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on January 03, 2017, 10:27:16 AM
Assange thinks his wikileaks is the only distributor of DNC emails.  He's angry because he's missing out on all the free publicity if wikileaks gets mentioned on the news in relation to hacking. Even if his particular source wasn't connected to the Russian government, it doesn't prove or disprove Russian government attempts to interfere with an American election process.

Where is the smack my fore head  while shaking my head in disbelief smiley?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 04, 2017, 08:40:32 AM
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/04/washpost-is-richly-rewarded-for-false-news-about-russia-threat-while-public-is-deceived/

Quote
IN THE PAST SIX WEEKS, the Washington Post published two blockbuster stories about the Russian threat that went viral: one on how Russia is behind a massive explosion of “fake news,” the other on how it invaded the U.S. electric grid. Both articles were fundamentally false. Each now bears a humiliating Editor’s Note grudgingly acknowledging that the core claims of the story were fiction: the first Note of which was posted a full two weeks later to the top of the original article, the other of which was buried the following day at the bottom.

The second story on the electric grid turned out to be far worse than I realized when I wrote about it on Saturday, when it became clear that there was no “penetration of the U.S. electricity grid” as the Post had claimed. In addition to the Editor’s Note, the Russia-hacked-our-electric-grid story now has a full-scale retraction in the form of a separate article admitting that “the incident is not linked to any Russian government effort to target or hack the utility” and that there may not have even been malware at all on this laptop.

But while these debacles are embarrassing for the paper, they are also richly rewarding. That’s because journalists – including those at the Post – aggressively hype and promote the original, sensationalistic false stories, ensuring that they go viral, generating massive traffic for the Post (the paper’s Executive Editor, Marty Baron, recently boasted about how profitable the paper has become).
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 04, 2017, 08:46:31 AM
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/04/washpost-is-richly-rewarded-for-false-news-about-russia-threat-while-public-is-deceived/

all of that is not proof that the Russians did not attempt to influence (interfere with) the 2016 Presidential Elections.

(I thought I'd get that in before...)

 ::)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 04, 2017, 10:29:15 AM
Apparently Podesta's password was "password"   ::)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Mase on January 04, 2017, 10:33:45 AM
Proof of Russian Hacking!

...is lacking.


Felt poetic this morning.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: acrogimp on January 04, 2017, 10:33:52 AM


'Gimp
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 04, 2017, 12:06:52 PM
Best sum-up I've seen.

arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/did-russia-tamper-with-the-2016-election-bitter-debate-likely-to-rage-on/ (http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/did-russia-tamper-with-the-2016-election-bitter-debate-likely-to-rage-on/)

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: PaulS on January 04, 2017, 12:29:09 PM
Apparently Podesta's password was "password"   ::)

Is this serious, because it sounds just about right.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 06, 2017, 04:19:02 PM
Based on the lack of tweets dissing our intelligence agencies after his briefing today, it seems likely that the evidence of Russian meddling might have been compelling to our President Elect.  Of course he did have to say it didn't effect the outcome of the election.  Whether it did or not we'll never know but the fact is, the Russians gave it their best shot.  We'll have to wait another 24 hours to know for sure what DT is thinking as I'm sure he's thinking of more important things like Arnold's Apprentice TV ratings.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 04:33:59 PM
Based on the lack of tweets dissing our intelligence agencies after his briefing today, it seems likely that the evidence of Russian meddling might have been compelling to our President Elect.  Of course he did have to say it didn't effect the outcome of the election.  Whether it did or not we'll never know but the fact is, the Russians gave it their best shot.  We'll have to wait another 24 hours to know for sure what DT is thinking as I'm sure he's thinking of more important things like Arnold's Apprentice TV ratings.

Someone thought the briefing was so important that it was leaked to NBC before Trump was briefed on it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-06/angry-trump-demands-congressional-probe-media-leak-top-secret-intelligence-report

So tell us again how this is not politicized?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 06, 2017, 05:02:19 PM
Someone thought the briefing was so important that it was leaked to NBC before Trump was briefed on it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-06/angry-trump-demands-congressional-probe-media-leak-top-secret-intelligence-report

So tell us again how this is not politicized?
Everything is "politicized" by politicians.  The facts are Russia meddled in an American political process and favored a particular candidate.  This can't be tolerated. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 05:38:40 PM
Everything is "politicized" by politicians.  The facts are Russia meddled in an American political process and favored a particular candidate.  This can't be tolerated.

The Chinese hacked the OPM and stole 21+million files.........and Obama did nothing.

The IRS was hacked, twice.........and Obama did nothing.

The EPA was hacked.......and Obama did nothing.

The DOD was hacked......and Obama did nothing.

The White House was hacked......and Obama did nothing.


Yet the democrats lose an election in one of the most embarrassing political upsets of modern history, and all of the sudden it was because of "Russian hacking" and Obama jumps into action by kicking 35 diplomats out of the US.

 
Everything is "politicized" by politicians.  The facts are Russia meddled in an American political process and favored a particular candidate.  This can't be tolerated.

 So does it disturb you at all when a sitting US President uses tax payer dollars to "meddle" in another countries political process and a "favored a particular candidate"? 

 Where was the outrage when BHO did this to Israel?  Should have Israel booted out American diplomats for "meddling" in their election?

 Do you even have the intellectual honesty to answer such a question?



Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 06, 2017, 06:23:49 PM
The Chinese hacked the OPM and stole 21+million files.........and Obama did nothing.

The IRS was hacked, twice.........and Obama did nothing.

The EPA was hacked.......and Obama did nothing.

The DOD was hacked......and Obama did nothing.

The White House was hacked......and Obama did nothing.


Yet the democrats lose an election in one of the most embarrassing political upsets of modern history, and all of the sudden it was because of "Russian hacking" and Obama jumps into action by kicking 35 diplomats out of the US.

 
 So does it disturb you at all when a sitting US President uses tax payer dollars to "meddle" in another countries political process and a "favored a particular candidate"? 

 Where was the outrage when BHO did this to Israel?  Should have Israel booted out American diplomats for "meddling" in their election?

 Do you even have the intellectual honesty to answer such a question?
I really don't care if we hack our enemies.  I would probably care if we didn't.  I do care when they meddle in our affairs.  Israel would do better to realize they ain't crap without our support.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 06:37:06 PM
I really don't care if we hack our enemies.  I would probably care if we didn't. 

Thanks for showing and admitting your hypocrisy. 


I do care when they meddle in our affairs.  Israel would do better to realize they ain't crap without our support.

Unreal.  But falls in line with the whole useful idiot mantra of the left.

 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 06, 2017, 06:46:15 PM
So to summarize:
There was no Russian hacking.
Then there was no proof of Russian hacking.
Then there may have been Russian hacking but it wasn't to favor one candidate over another.
They may have favored one candidate but it didn't make a difference.
Other countries have hacked us but Obama did nothing. (If so where were the Republicans demanding sanctions?)
We do the same thing to other countries, so we shouldn't complain. 
It's political.

Got it.  Anymore rationalizations indicating it's okay for Vladimir to secretly campaign for a particular candidate in an American election? 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: asechrest on January 06, 2017, 06:49:20 PM
Thanks for showing and admitting your hypocrisy. 

Wait a minute. Hypocrisy? Ok, sure, but that's the kind of hypocrisy an American patriot would want. If we bomb the shit out of an enemy we're at war with, and then they successfully do the same to us, do you claim hypocrisy when we're pissed about it?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 06:49:54 PM
So to summarize:
There was no Russian hacking.
Then there was no proof of Russian hacking.
Then there may have been Russian hacking but it wasn't to favor one candidate over another.
They may have favored one candidate but it didn't make a difference.
Other countries have hacked us but Obama did nothing. (If so where were the Republicans demanding sanctions?)
We do the same thing to other countries, so we shouldn't complain. 
It's political.

Got it.  Anymore rationalizations indicating it's okay for Vladimir to secretly campaign for a particular candidate in an American election?

 "Useful idiot" explains everything we need to know about Witmo.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 06:51:05 PM
Wait a minute. Hypocrisy? Ok, sure, but that's the kind of hypocrisy an American patriot would want. If we bomb the shit out of an enemy we're at war with, and then they successfully do the same to us, do you claim hypocrisy when we're pissed about it?

That's an idiotic analogy, but considering the source.....
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: asechrest on January 06, 2017, 06:52:56 PM
That's an idiotic analogy, but considering the source.....

It's perfect, actually. Who knew you were PC snowflake who didn't believe in American exceptionalism? ;) 

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 06, 2017, 06:55:07 PM
It's not hypocrisy to do what it takes to defend this nation against all enemies foreign and domestic.  I suppose in your world it's okay for our enemies to attack us because we attack them.  Maybe someday you'll accept enemy drones overhead St. Louis firing Hellfire's at our leadership, afterall, isn't that what we do around the world.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 06, 2017, 06:55:47 PM
"Useful idiot" explains everything we need to know about Witmo.
Thanks.  I know I've won the argument when all you've got to answer me with is name calling.  Are you and Number Seven the same person?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 07:21:25 PM
It's not hypocrisy to do what it takes to defend this nation against all enemies foreign and domestic.  I suppose in your world it's okay for our enemies to attack us because we attack them.  Maybe someday you'll accept enemy drones overhead St. Louis firing Hellfire's at our leadership, afterall, isn't that what we do around the world.

   Barack Obama has spent 8 years watching our various government departments get hacked, but yet does nothing, not a damn thing to try to prevent it or hold those responsible accountable.  Yet all of the sudden, when his party gets their ass kicked in an election that is one of the biggest political embarrassments in modern history, he is all about supposed "Russian Hacking" and telling the Russians to "cut it out!" and booting out diplomats.


 Yet the various politicized intelligence agencies admit that the supposed hacking had nothing to do with vote tampering or actually swaying the election. 

 And even your beloved DNC, when the FBI requested to examine their computer system for evidence of hacking, refused.  Yep, they cry about hacking but yet they don't want a government agenciy looking into their system.  Seem a bit fucked up to you? Does to everyone who can see through the bullshit.

 So we have Podesta who gets trapped in a phishing scheme, uses "password" for his password, Hillary with her home brewed server in the bathroom and the various geniuses within the DNC passing passwords around and caring less about computer security, and the dumbasses got hacked.  And it's the Russians fault?

 Notice again, that the RNC or Trump organization didn't get hacked?  Now you will resort to trying to tell us that's because they were in with the Russians, and of course you believe that.  Got news for you Sparky, other entities are into the hacking business as well.  Guarantee you the DNC worked and hired the best they could find to get into those computers.  But yet the people on the other side, the RNC and Trump campaign at least had the brains to prevent such an event from happening.

 Finally, your complaint of a foreign government supposedly trying to influence an election here is reprehensiblle to you, but yet you are okey dokey with a sitting president using taxpayer dollars doing it to another country.   

 Again, "Useful idiot"

 
 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 07:23:25 PM
Thanks.  I know I've won the argument when all you've got to answer me with is name calling.  Are you and Number Seven the same person?

By you believing hat your inane diatribes are "winning the argument" just reinforces what I've said.  The dems love and need more of you.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 06, 2017, 07:32:03 PM
How does Lucifer know the RNC wasn't hacked?  Because no emails were published by Assange? Or maybe they actually were hacked and the Russians chose not to provide the public insight into the GOP.  If the DNC emails hadn't been published, would we know they had been hacked?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 07:41:05 PM
How does Lucifer know the RNC wasn't hacked?  Because no emails were published by Assange? Or maybe they actually were hacked and the Russians chose not to provide the public insight into the GOP.  If the DNC emails hadn't been published, would we know they had been hacked?

You do understand the difference between being hacked and attempting a hack, right?

Quote
Russian hackers tried to penetrate the computer networks of the Republican National Committee, using the same techniques that allowed them to infiltrate its Democratic counterpart, according to U.S. officials who have been briefed on the attempted intrusion.

But the intruders failed to get past security defenses on the RNC’s computer networks, the officials said.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-national-committee-security-foiled-russian-hackers-1481850043

 

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on January 06, 2017, 08:02:46 PM
Everything is "politicized" by politicians.  The facts are Russia meddled in an American political process and favored a particular candidate.  This can't be tolerated.
Perhaps it was the other way around and Russia was like a lot of us:  They weren't so much pulling for Trump as they were against Hillary.  It is well known that Putin had no respect for Hillary.  What kind of situation would that have set up for international relations for the next 8 years if Hillary won?  The Crimea would have just been an appetizer for them, as long as her foundation made Billions.

So much for her "Russian Reset".

And NO, that doesn't mean I approve of any Russian interference in or politics, but there are a lot of things I don't like that are a fact of life.

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 06, 2017, 08:14:43 PM
Perhaps it was the other way around and Russia was like a lot of us:  They weren't so much pulling for Trump as they were against Hillary.  It is well known that Putin had no respect for Hillary.  What kind of situation would that have set up for international relations for the next 8 years if Hillary won?  The Crimea would have just been an appetizer for them, as long as her foundation made Billions.

So much for her "Russian Reset".

And NO, that doesn't mean I approve of any Russian interference in or politics, but there are a lot of things I don't like that are a fact of life.

Truth is most of the world is sick and tired of Obama and viewed Hillary as being worse.  She was a joke as Secretary of State and garnered very little respect.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 06, 2017, 09:01:42 PM
Truth is most of the world is sick and tired of Obama and viewed Hillary as being worse.  She was a joke as Secretary of State and garnered very little respect.
I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing Russian hacking.  Oops, I forget that every argument you ever make ultimately ends up as being the fault of Liberals, Dems, Obama or Hillary.  Now you presume to speak for the world--you're a bit pretentious aren't you?
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 06, 2017, 09:32:58 PM
The facts are Russia meddled in an American political process and favored a particular candidate.  This can't be tolerated.

That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over! What the fuck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?

Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Number7 on January 06, 2017, 11:24:33 PM
The funniest thing about the entire Russian hacking charade is how the FBI did absolutely nothing about the make believe hacking until right after the Hilary loss embarrassed the wanna-be emperor.
And the moment the DNC got their underpants in a twist, the progressive lemmings jumped all into it with both barrels firing.
The lack of intellectual capacity among progressives is downright scary.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Little Joe on January 07, 2017, 06:38:21 AM
I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing Russian hacking.  Oops, I forget that every argument you ever make ultimately ends up as being the fault of Liberals, Dems, Obama or Hillary.  Now you presume to speak for the world--you're a bit pretentious aren't you?
I didn't realize that these threads were required to stay on topic.  And I believe that you may have been guilty of a little thread drift or diversion on occasion too.  I"m sure I have.  That is the way the game is played. 

But I understand your position.  If you can't attack the message . . .

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2017, 07:02:45 AM
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/01/the_lefts_russia_narrative_has_no_legs.html


The left's Russia narrative has no legs

Quote
WikiLeaks released all the DNC, Hillary Clinton and John Podesta emails that were in play during the 2016 presidential election.  Julian Assange claims he did not receive any of these emails from Russia, Russia-related individuals, or Russian agents.  He received them all from a "private, non-state party."  Assange was not provided any similar data regarding Trump and the RNC, so he had none to release.  In the last election cycle, let's not forget, he released Sarah Palin's emails, which backs up his claim that he is non-partisan in his promulgation of political leaks.

Whether you view Assange as heroic or treacherous, the veracity of his releases is not contested.  Therefore, if these revelations did impact the election results, it is the deplorable actions of Hillary Clinton and DNC that show who is responsible – the message, if you will, not the messenger we ought to blame.  This does not advance the narrative of the left, however, who must find a more palatable explanation for the Clinton loss.  Hence the Russians.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 07, 2017, 07:38:18 AM
Democrats feel entitled to win, it's in their DNA.  If they lose, there must be some other reason for it.  Somehow the fact that Trump drew much larger crowds to his rallies and the fact that he held many more rallies than Hillary and the fact that he campaigned in states that Hillary knew she had in the bag all pail in comparison to the fact that those that watch FOX News and actually heard about the emails somehow caused Hillary to lose is all we need to know.[size=78%]  [/size] ::)


Of course the Russian hackers forced Podesta to click on the link in the phishing email and give away his credentials.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Witmo on January 07, 2017, 07:58:26 AM
Democrats feel entitled to win, it's in their DNA.  If they lose, there must be some other reason for it.  Somehow the fact that Trump drew much larger crowds to his rallies and the fact that he held many more rallies than Hillary and the fact that he campaigned in states that Hillary knew she had in the bag all pail in comparison to the fact that those that watch FOX News and actually heard about the emails somehow caused Hillary to lose is all we need to know.[size=78%]  [/size] ::)


Of course the Russian hackers forced Podesta to click on the link in the phishing email and give away his credentials.
Trump drew more people to rallies, HRC had close to 3 MILLION more votes.  Yeah, he won an overwhelming victory.  :-\
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2017, 08:38:31 AM
Trump drew more people to rallies, HRC had close to 3 MILLION more votes.  Yeah, he won an overwhelming victory.  :-\

Take one state out of the equation, California, and Hillary loses that 3 million lead.

And in case you haven't noticed, we elect Presidents via the electoral college, not by popular vote.  So by using FACTS Trump won an overwhelming victory by having 304 Electoral votes to HRC's 227.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: acrogimp on January 07, 2017, 09:00:02 AM
Trump drew more people to rallies, HRC had close to 3 MILLION more votes.  Yeah, he won an overwhelming victory.  :-\
304 to 227, pretty overwhelming to me, especially coupled in context with the devastation Barack Obama has visited on the Democrat party since his election in 2008, more than 900 State legislative seats, 12 governships, 69 seats in the House, 13 seats in the Senate - ALL GONE. 

They are now by any reasonable logic a coastal/regional party, if they did not have effective one-party rule in NY, and CA and a near monopoly in the alt-left government-media- news-complex, they would be a minor party, barely more influential than the Libertarians

I am completely fine if those of you on the Left never get it, since your derangement and cognitive dissonance is so bloody entertaining - America has systematically and overwhelmingly rejected Barack Obama, his policies, and his party - this is clear in election results.

Once again, Clapper offered no actual proof of the claimed Russian plan to influence the election, only notional thoughts and opinions and innuendo - but he stated explicitly there was absolutely no hacking of the results.

The fake news is the story that anyone 'hacked the election' - did not happen, is not alleged to have happened, and DNI himself has stated very clearly there is no such evidence or accusation.

The only people, for whom there is actual, unchallenged evidence of clear attempts to influence the election, are, once again, the Democrat Party and their fellow travellers in the media - who rigged the Democrat Primary and then colluded at levels unseen in prior years, to elect Hillary Clinton.  They basically stole one election and almost stole a second - in broad daylight - because the fox is guarding the henhouse.

We know this thanks to Wikileaks - and you bozos cannot have it both ways, if Assange was a hero when he released the Snowden material, if you cheered when he released the (boring) Sarah Palin e-mails, then you need to cheer him on now as well - if his sources were unimpeachable before (or more likely unimportant so long as he was gunning for the other team), then the same should be true now.

That the DNC was so easily penetrated, and then refused to cooperate with respect to FBI access to the servers to find any actual proof is the real news story - let that sink in for a second - the DNC alleges the Russians hacked their servers, and then REFUSED TO LET FBI EXAMINE THE SERVERS - the FBI statements are being made based on suspicion, fuelled by the DNC itself, there is no proof of hacking because FBI was not allowed to search for it.

So please, cling to the 3 million popular vote argument (nearly all from CA and NY btw), keep MAKING fake news stories about fake news - the adults are about to be in charge again and shit is about to get real.

'Gimp
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Lucifer on January 07, 2017, 09:29:05 AM
On the DNC refusing to let the FBI look at their servers, even when the DNC makes allegations they were hacked, by the Russians no less.

That leads to one of two conclusions.  They know once the FBI looks into the servers they will find zero evidence of foreign hacking or, they may actually find some or all of those 33,000 emails that Hillary deleted under subpoena.  Or both.

It's a hard reality for the DNC that most (reasonable thinking) Americans are no longer buying their twisted narrative and fake news stories.
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 07, 2017, 09:58:50 AM
Trump drew more people to rallies, HRC had close to 3 MILLION more votes.  Yeah, he won an overwhelming victory.  :-\

Trump drew many more people to rallies - not a requirement for winning the US Presidential election

hillary had close to "3 MILLION" more votes - also not a requirement winning the US Presidential election

Trump received 304 electoral votes (almost 34% more than the DNC trash).  Hey, whadda know, that was more than enough to win the US Presidential election. 
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 07, 2017, 11:36:28 AM
Actually, I hope the Democrats don't ever catch on to the fact that Republicans are cleaning their clocks in states not name Washington, Oregon, California, New York or Illinois.  What have they lost since Obama became President, some 1000+ plus seats.  Yep, Russian hackers at work.  ;)
Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: acrogimp on January 07, 2017, 09:10:51 PM
So I finally figured out what all the whining about the fake hacking story reminded me of, and it even sounds right...

Title: Re: Proof of Russian Hacking!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2017, 09:49:30 PM
You must have an amazing memory!!!