Post by: Lucifer on August 08, 2017, 12:30:25 PM
Between this asswipe and Paul Ryan, they can't get shit accomplished because they are too entrenched in the swamp. And how many times did this idiot send a bill to Obama to repeal the ACA? But now he has a Republican President who is willing to sign and he and his cohorts now have a change of heart.
It's time to start draining the swamp and the swamp rats such as this.
Quote
Speaking at a Rotary Club gathering in Kentucky on Monday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vented about how President Donald Trump's lack of political experience has led to him setting “excessive expectations” for legislative priorities.
McConnell, R-Ky., told the group in Florence that he found it “extremely irritating” that Congress has earned the reputation of not accomplishing anything.
“Part of the reason I think that the storyline is that we haven’t done much is because, in part, the president and others have set these early timelines about things need to be done by a certain point,” said McConnell, a Republican and the state’s senior senator.
Post by: asechrest on August 08, 2017, 12:35:03 PM
Totally agree. What a pansy-ass whiner. 4700 repeal proposals pre-Trump, and now has the audacity to blame unrealistic expectations? Congress sucks.
Post by: Number7 on August 08, 2017, 12:40:02 PM
Post by: invflatspin on August 08, 2017, 01:15:09 PM
"Section 1. The legislation known as ACA(Health care act of 2011) is hereby repealed."
"Section 2. All laws, regulations regarding US health care will revert to operable as before ACA."
"Section 3. The restrictions on cross-state marketing and sale of health care insurance policy are hereby revoked."
"Section 4. The limitations and restrictions on scope and coverage of health care insurance policies are hereby revoked."
Let the market fix it. If I want a $10,000 deductible, and coverage for only life-threatening problems, I should be able to buy it. If I want a $500 deductible, well-care coverage, family planning, mental health coverage, ie 'full boat' policy I should be able to buy it. If I live in MT and want to buy coverage from FL, I should be able to buy it(provided the company meets the regs for insurability, liquidity, etc). The restrictions should be on the vendors of products in the market, not on the consumers.
Will require a paradigm shift in health care thinking. Very hard to do. The Reps are scared of taking the pablum filled spoon out of the mouth of the infant, lest they begin(and will) screaming. It might cost them an election.
Post by: Lucifer on August 08, 2017, 01:35:32 PM
Major insurers are big donors. Big donors own politicians.
Insurance companies stand to gain billion$ in federal subsidies because of the ACA.
Post by: nddons on August 08, 2017, 04:48:17 PM
Totally agree. What a pansy-ass whiner. 4700 repeal proposals pre-Trump, and now has the audacity to blame unrealistic expectations? Congress sucks.Agreed. McConnell, Schumer, et.al. are precisely what is wrong with Congress. If the Convention of States fails to address term limits for Congress and the Judiciary, we are totally fucked.
Post by: Anthony on August 09, 2017, 06:07:31 AM
Agreed. McConnell, Schumer, et.al. are precisely what is wrong with Congress. If the Convention of States fails to address term limits for Congress and the Judiciary, we are totally fucked.
The only reason, I am staying a registered Republican, and not become a registered Independent is to vote in the Primaries against Republican incumbents.
Post by: LevelWing on August 09, 2017, 09:47:10 AM
- Most of what they've discussed and/or passed so far sucks
- The President isn't out there getting the message out about why Obamacare is horrible and people should vote for the new bill
I think Obamacare is a terrible bill but at least President Obama went out there and sold it. He held rallies to sell his plan and people bought into it. Trump isn't doing that. Both branches are responsible for this, not just Congress.
Post by: Lucifer on August 09, 2017, 10:00:41 AM
There's plenty of blame to go around on this. I agree that Congress could, and should, be doing more. They should be passing bills and sending them to the President for his signature. But on the other hand, the President hasn't gone out and campaigned on the healthcare repeal. It's polling so low for a few reasons:
- Most of what they've discussed and/or passed so far sucks
- The President isn't out there getting the message out about why Obamacare is horrible and people should vote for the new bill
I think Obamacare is a terrible bill but at least President Obama went out there and sold it. He held rallies to sell his plan and people bought into it. Trump isn't doing that. Both branches are responsible for this, not just Congress.
BULLSHIT!
The ACA was wrote in secrecy and passed in the middle of the night using reconciliation. And there was zero republican support or consultation on the bill.
There was no "selling", just a bunch of lies ("If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", and "The ACA will lower premiums by $2500 a year")
Even Jonathan Gruber was caught on tape saying "The stupidity of the American voter" made it important for him and Democrats to hide Obamacare’s true costs from the public. “That was really, really critical for the thing to pass,” said Gruber. “But I’d rather have this law than not.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/11/10/aca-architect-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-led-us-to-hide-obamacares-tax-hikes-and-subsidies-from-the-public/#524f14397c05
So much for Obama "selling" the idea of the ACA. ::)
Post by: Anthony on August 09, 2017, 10:09:41 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 09, 2017, 10:12:50 AM
It is easy to forget that Jonathan Gruber statement. Very telling. The media certainly has forgotten about it. The Democrats think all voters are stupid, and easily fooled.
Gruber summed it all up, his words.
And don't forget Nancy Pelosi "We have to vote on it to see what's in it".
For someone to come out and try to say Obama "sold people" the ACA is pure fucking bullshit.
Post by: LevelWing on August 09, 2017, 10:15:29 AM
BULLSHIT!Don't confuse lying with not selling. He did in fact hold rallies and he did in fact go around the country touting "if you like your plan you can keep your plan." Pelosi did in fact say that they had to pass the bill so we could see what was in it. All of that is true. But Obama still went around the country getting Americans worked up about a revamp of the healthcare system.
The ACA was wrote in secrecy and passed in the middle of the night using reconciliation. And there was zero republican support or consultation on the bill.
There was no "selling", just a bunch of lies ("If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", and "The ACA will lower premiums by $2500 a year")
Even Jonathan Gruber was caught on tape saying "The stupidity of the American voter" made it important for him and Democrats to hide Obamacare’s true costs from the public. “That was really, really critical for the thing to pass,” said Gruber. “But I’d rather have this law than not.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/11/10/aca-architect-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-led-us-to-hide-obamacares-tax-hikes-and-subsidies-from-the-public/#524f14397c05
So much for Obama "selling" the idea of the ACA. ::)
Post by: Lucifer on August 09, 2017, 10:31:47 AM
Don't confuse lying with not selling. He did in fact hold rallies and he did in fact go around the country touting "if you like your plan you can keep your plan." Pelosi did in fact say that they had to pass the bill so we could see what was in it. All of that is true. But Obama still went around the country getting Americans worked up about a revamp of the healthcare system.
And people were outraged (except for the progressives). It was apparent they could not get this passed conventionally, even with Obama "selling it".
Quote
It’s that the law’s complex system of insurance regulation is a way of concealing from voters what Obamacare really is: a huge redistribution of wealth from the young and healthy to the old and unhealthy. In the video, Gruber points out that if Democrats had been honest about these facts, and that the law’s individual mandate is in effect a major tax hike, Obamacare would never have passed Congress.
“Mark [Pauly] made a couple of comments that I do want to take issue with, one about transparency in financing and the other is about moving from community rating to risk-rated subsidies. You can’t do it politically. You just literally cannot do it, okay, transparent financing…and also transparent spending.” Gruber said. “In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in—you made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed, okay. Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass…Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/11/10/aca-architect-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-led-us-to-hide-obamacares-tax-hikes-and-subsidies-from-the-public/#524f14397c05
The republicans voted on and sent numerous bills to Obama for signature to REPEAL the ACA while he was in office. REPEAL.
Yet now we have a Republican President who has stated, over and over, that he will sign a repeal bill or a repeal and replace bill. And yet our republican led Congress and republican led Senate can't come up with a bill to do either, hell, they can't even send forward the previous bills they sent forward.
And the republican voters are PISSED. These congressmen and senators ran their campaigns on repeal and replace. And now they can't deliver.
So far Trump has stated over and over he will sign the bill. But it takes CONGRESS to actually get a bill on his desk. So lay the blame squarely where it belongs. The establishment republicans and the democrats would love to hang this around Trump's neck but it's not working, the voters are seeing through the charades.
Post by: LevelWing on August 09, 2017, 10:35:22 AM
And people were outraged (except for the progressives). It was apparent they could not get this passed conventionally, even with Obama "selling it".I'm not disagreeing with the fact that the Republicans passed numerous repeal bills when Obama was in office and won't pass them now. I'm not disagreeing that voters are pissed.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/11/10/aca-architect-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-led-us-to-hide-obamacares-tax-hikes-and-subsidies-from-the-public/#524f14397c05
The republicans voted on and sent numerous bills to Obama for signature to REPEAL the ACA while he was in office. REPEAL.
Yet now we have a Republican President who has stated, over and over, that he will sign a repeal bill or a repeal and replace bill. And yet our republican led Congress and republican led Senate can't come up with a bill to do either, hell, they can't even send forward the previous bills they sent forward.
And the republican voters are PISSED. These congressmen and senators ran their campaigns on repeal and replace. And now they can't deliver.
So far Trump has stated over and over he will sign the bill. But it takes CONGRESS to actually get a bill on his desk. So lay the blame squarely where it belongs. The establishment republicans and the democrats would love to hang this around Trump's neck but it's not working, the voters are seeing through the charades.
I'm saying that Trump has a role in this as well. Let's not forget everyone, including Trump, started with repeal and replace and when that didn't work he said Republicans should just pass repeal and now they won't do that.
Post by: Lucifer on August 09, 2017, 10:43:38 AM
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that the Republicans passed numerous repeal bills when Obama was in office and won't pass them now. I'm not disagreeing that voters are pissed.
I'm saying that Trump has a role in this as well. Let's not forget everyone, including Trump, started with repeal and replace and when that didn't work he said Republicans should just pass repeal and now they won't do that.
"sigh".......... ???
You do of course realize Trump cannot do anything until the House sends him a bill to sign? The man has pushed and pushed congress to do something to fix this and they fiddle as Rome burns.
Post by: LevelWing on August 09, 2017, 11:08:55 AM
"sigh".......... ???No, he's tweeted about the bills and then called them mean. I don't call that pushing Congress to do anything. I think he could be doing more. That doesn't excuse the Republican's actions (or lack thereof), they certainly need to be doing more than they are. It'll be interesting to see how many get primary challengers next year and out of those, how many succeed. The primary challenger to Paul Ryan last time, Paul Nehlen, didn't go very far.
You do of course realize Trump cannot do anything until the House sends him a bill to sign? The man has pushed and pushed congress to do something to fix this and they fiddle as Rome burns.
Post by: Lucifer on August 09, 2017, 12:07:02 PM
No, he's tweeted about the bills and then called them mean. I don't call that pushing Congress to do anything. I think he could be doing more. That doesn't excuse the Republican's actions (or lack thereof), they certainly need to be doing more than they are. It'll be interesting to see how many get primary challengers next year and out of those, how many succeed. The primary challenger to Paul Ryan last time, Paul Nehlen, didn't go very far.
Apparently you slept through the election of 2016, and have napped from Nov 2016 to now. The President has pushed congress, held meetings with house and senate members and has even given several speeches on why the ACA must be repealed and/or replaced.
Even at his rallies speaking with the public he has spoken about it. But again, unless congress acts, he can't do anything.
Post by: nddons on August 09, 2017, 01:54:19 PM
Fast forward to the late 20th and early 21st centuries, and the Republicans have forgotten how to talk. Instead of telling the networks that he's having a 30-minute talk with the American people next Wednesday at 8:00pm EDT, and they can cover it if they want, and otherwise it would be steamed live to the world, Trump sends out fucking tweets. Likewise, McConnell has never had to sell anything to anyone, and Ryan limits his good auditory to news conferences surrounded by his fellow swamp creatures.
All any of the above would need to do is talk to the American people, speak about the importance of your positions, and SELL YOUR FUCKING CASE, and people will back them.
Instead, the GOP acts like the minority party even when they are in the majority. It's fucking maddening.
Post by: Lucifer on August 09, 2017, 02:16:07 PM
If only there was a means for the president, or Congressional leaders, to speak straight through to the American people, live, during the evening time slots. Hmmm. Oh yea, Reagan had his Oval Office speeches, Carter gave his fireside chats in his sweaters telling us to turn down the heat in our homes, etc.
Fast forward to the late 20th and early 21st centuries, and the Republicans have forgotten how to talk. Instead of telling the networks that he's having a 30-minute talk with the American people next Wednesday at 8:00pm EDT, and they can cover it if they want, and otherwise it would be steamed live to the world, Trump sends out fucking tweets. Likewise, McConnell has never had to sell anything to anyone, and Ryan limits his good auditory to news conferences surrounded by his fellow swamp creatures.
All any of the above would need to do is talk to the American people, speak about the importance of your positions, and SELL YOUR FUCKING CASE, and people will back them.
Instead, the GOP acts like the minority party even when they are in the majority. It's fucking maddening.
Here's the problem: The American people are already sold on repeal and replace, the 2016 election proves that. Take a look around right now and all you see and here from the voters is "Why can't they just do what they (congress) campaigned on?" Hell, they sent how many bills to Obama to outright repeal the ACA? And now, with a President with pen in hand, ready to sign, they just can't seem to get around to doing it.
What happened? Are we to agree that those previous bills to repeal was just a political stunt since they knew they would be vetoed anyway? Why the fear now, knowing that simply running the 2015 bill back through and get the President's signature would finally kill it?
Could it be those Insurance companies, who stand to get $billions$ in subsidies from the ACA are telling their bought and paid for establishment politicians to back down? Or are the establishment republican swamp dwellers playing a long game here, maybe, just maybe if they keep dragging their feet they can point at Trump and tell the voters "See, it's ALL his fault!" and they can get one of their own back in the WH? Somehow I see this backfiring really, really bad for them come 2018.
Bottom line, this is not a case of "selling it to the American people" as they are already on board. This is a case of a really smelly dank swamp full of creatures that could really not give a fuck what the people of this country want.
Post by: acrogimp on August 09, 2017, 02:21:17 PM
FUCK YOU MITCH MCCONNELL and every other damn establishment piece of shit in DC.
I swear some days it is really like when Taylor and Nova come up to the charred remains of the Statue of Liberty and he finally figures it all out:
'Gimp
Post by: invflatspin on August 09, 2017, 02:27:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kakFDUeoJKM
I sat and listened to this asshole on that July night. This was the breaking point for me as a liberal. I grew up in Socal, was pretty centrist but moderately liberal because I didn't see the conservatives offering any kind of greater noble, or moral, or ethical gain from the right. This was a disaster.
Later, I have been asked to teach freshman public speaking and I always play this on the 3rd or so class session. This is the perfect lesson on what NOT to say in public, and most specifically as a leader of a nation. I almost threw up my dinner after listening to this whole thing. And I realized, what he said was in part true. But why do that to a country?
I don't think Trump would ever do anything like this again, but I do consider that no matter how good his speech went, it would be lambasted by the media. So - why try? He gave a killer fantastic speech to congress a few months ago. It was very well done, and the left just ripped him for it. Compared to Carter, it was a 1000 times better. Not sure about the value of tweeting, I can see the upside and the downside. It gets his message out directly as we like, but the world's problems can't be solved, or even summed up in 140 letters, or whatever twits are limited to.
Post by: Little Joe on August 09, 2017, 03:45:01 PM
I can see the upside and the downside. It gets his message out directly as we like, but the world's problems can't be solved, or even summed up in 140 letters, or whatever twits are limited to.Part of the problem with his tweets, and I have never seen this mentioned, is that very few people, relatively speaking, actually read his tweets. Most people read the tweets that the MSM decides to report. And they can take those 140 characters and put them in any context they want.
I like Stan's idea of him having more "fireside" type chats that can be streamed or aired by any network that chooses too.
Post by: Lucifer on August 09, 2017, 04:33:40 PM
Part of the problem with his tweets, and I have never seen this mentioned, is that very few people, relatively speaking, actually read his tweets. Most people read the tweets that the MSM decides to report. And they can take those 140 characters and put them in any context they want.
I like Stan's idea of him having more "fireside" type chats that can be streamed or aired by any network that chooses too.
And here's the problem with "fireside" type chats: Only a few networks will carry them and the rest of the MSM will take them, cut them into soundbites, then twist and contort.
Post by: invflatspin on August 09, 2017, 05:21:17 PM
And here's the problem with "fireside" type chats: Only a few networks will carry them and the rest of the MSM will take them, cut them into soundbites, then twist and contort.
The president has been given kind of a special access to the airwaves. For announcements of major significance, and serious events he can preempt normal programming. This is what all presidents have done in the past, but by mutual agreement, it's not abused by the exec. In other words, he can demand that any publicly licensed broadcaster can be required to carry the president's address without interruption. Of course, they can jabber before and after, but they can't cut into or refuse to carry his address to the public. But - like I said, they don't abuse it.
Post by: Lucifer on August 09, 2017, 05:28:58 PM
The president has been given kind of a special access to the airwaves. For announcements of major significance, and serious events he can preempt normal programming. This is what all presidents have done in the past, but by mutual agreement, it's not abused by the exec. In other words, he can demand that any publicly licensed broadcaster can be required to carry the president's address without interruption. Of course, they can jabber before and after, but they can't cut into or refuse to carry his address to the public. But - like I said, they don't abuse it.
We're in a whole new era now with regards to the MSM.
Post by: nddons on August 10, 2017, 08:18:43 AM
And here's the problem with "fireside" type chats: Only a few networks will carry them and the rest of the MSM will take them, cut them into soundbites, then twist and contort.Which is why I said that they can carry them if they want, but it will also be live streamed. Are you saying that having a 30 minute talk directly with the American people is a bad thing? Because as of now, the completely inept GOP had utterly failed to make their case for pretty much anything. If they did, or if Trump truly explained what's wrong with Obamacare in something more than 140 characters, the Trump voters would be carrying pitchforks into congressional town hall meetings. Instead, we're all asleep, and the GOP establishment is getting exactly what it wants - to make Trump a one-term president through their inaction.
Post by: LevelWing on August 10, 2017, 08:35:38 AM
Which is why I said that they can carry them if they want, but it will also be live streamed. Are you saying that having a 30 minute talk directly with the American people is a bad thing? Because as of now, the completely inept GOP had utterly failed to make their case for pretty much anything. If they did, or if Trump truly explained what's wrong with Obamacare in something more than 140 characters, the Trump voters would be carrying pitchforks into congressional town hall meetings. Instead, we're all asleep, and the GOP establishment is getting exactly what it wants - to make Trump a one-term president through their inaction.On a near daily basis the left is finding a way to help him get re-elected. It's a strange occurrence when establishment Republicans don't want to see someone with an "R" next to their name re-elected and the opposing party is going out of their way to self-destruct in a way which makes Trump not so bad.
I agree with you that he should ask for air time and sell his message. Invflatspin suggested town hall meetings, which I also like. Trump needs to sell this. Instead he just tweets out that it's mean.
Post by: Lucifer on August 10, 2017, 08:43:20 AM
Which is why I said that they can carry them if they want, but it will also be live streamed. Are you saying that having a 30 minute talk directly with the American people is a bad thing? Because as of now, the completely inept GOP had utterly failed to make their case for pretty much anything. If they did, or if Trump truly explained what's wrong with Obamacare in something more than 140 characters, the Trump voters would be carrying pitchforks into congressional town hall meetings. Instead, we're all asleep, and the GOP establishment is getting exactly what it wants - to make Trump a one-term president through their inaction.
I'm not against taking it to the American people, but I do understand under the current conditions it won't do any good. They can live stream it, sure. But rest assured one minute after the broadcast for the next 48 to 72 hours the MSM will soundbite it and go negative, negative, negative to destroy the message. Remember Trump's address to congress, which was carried live? Great speech, but the MSM in the preceding days tore it apart to destroy the message.
The GOP establishment is just the republican arm of the democrat party. Paul Ryan could come out tomorrow and change the "R" by his name to a "D" and hardly anyone would notice.
I've said this before, the GOP establishment is playing a long game here, their goal is to stall and delay the Trump agenda and hopefully cause him to get voted out of office in 2020. And this is why none of them are fighting the whole Mueller investigation as they secretly want Trump removed from office.
However, the people that voted for change last November are taking note of where the actual problem lies. McConnell shot himself in the foot Monday with his lame excuse that Trump had too many expectations and he didn't know how Washington worked. McConnell may very well be out as majority leader shortly, let's hope so. Paul Ryan will be primaried out come 2018 as Americans now see him for what he really stands for. I feel relatively sure a lot of "R" (and "D" as well) incumbents will find themselves unemployed come 2018.
Post by: Lucifer on August 10, 2017, 08:47:47 AM
On a near daily basis the left is finding a way to help him get re-elected. It's a strange occurrence when establishment Republicans don't want to see someone with an "R" next to their name re-elected and the opposing party is going out of their way to self-destruct in a way which makes Trump not so bad.
Don't disagree in the least on that.
I agree with you that he should ask for air time and sell his message. Invflatspin suggested town hall meetings, which I also like. Trump needs to sell this. Instead he just tweets out that it's mean.
Have you watched any of the town halls the republicans have put on? Soros sends in protesters by the dozens to disrupt and destroy.
And again, the "message" has been delivered loud and clear, over and over. "Repeal and Replace". Voters sent a mandate on it in Nov 2016 and Trump has made it a priority (if he can ever get a bill to sign).
Post by: LevelWing on August 10, 2017, 10:55:42 AM
I'm not against taking it to the American people, but I do understand under the current conditions it won't do any good. They can live stream it, sure. But rest assured one minute after the broadcast for the next 48 to 72 hours the MSM will soundbite it and go negative, negative, negative to destroy the message. Remember Trump's address to congress, which was carried live? Great speech, but the MSM in the preceding days tore it apart to destroy the message.When the most powerful man in the world speaks, people listen. The media can rip him all they want but that shouldn't discourage him from using air time to address the American people. The media does this to all Republican presidents and he clearly doesn't care what the media says about him so he has nothing to lose. Tweeting isn't enough.
However, the people that voted for change last November are taking note of where the actual problem lies. McConnell shot himself in the foot Monday with his lame excuse that Trump had too many expectations and he didn't know how Washington worked. McConnell may very well be out as majority leader shortly, let's hope so. Paul Ryan will be primaried out come 2018 as Americans now see him for what he really stands for. I feel relatively sure a lot of "R" (and "D" as well) incumbents will find themselves unemployed come 2018.I hope that McConnell isn't the majority leader the next go around and he's replaced by someone who is actually conservative, such as a Ted Cruz or Mike Lee but I'm not holding my breath. Ryan easily fended off a primary challenger in 2016 who may run against him again in 2018 but we'll see. I'm not convinced he'll lose yet. He could, Eric Cantor lost in a surprise primary upset, so it's possible.
Post by: LevelWing on August 10, 2017, 10:58:39 AM
Have you watched any of the town halls the republicans have put on? Soros sends in protesters by the dozens to disrupt and destroy.That's not a reason to not hold them. Between this and your last post (reference how the media will attack him if he goes on national television), it seems like you think he should shy away from using popular forums to get his message out despite opposition. There will always be opposition to any Republican; the Republicans need to find a way to turn that around instead of running away from it.
And again, the "message" has been delivered loud and clear, over and over. "Repeal and Replace". Voters sent a mandate on it in Nov 2016 and Trump has made it a priority (if he can ever get a bill to sign).It was originally just repeal and then it was repeal and replace and now it's just repeal again. The Republicans, as whole (which includes Trump), need a single message and a single, clear plan. They don't have that and it's hurting them.
I'll re-iterate my earlier point that even as I say that the Republicans are in disarray, the Democrats just keep imploding and make the Republicans look like they're not doing so bad (which includes Trump).
Post by: Lucifer on August 10, 2017, 11:18:14 AM
When the most powerful man in the world speaks, people listen. The media can rip him all they want but that shouldn't discourage him from using air time to address the American people. The media does this to all Republican presidents and he clearly doesn't care what the media says about him so he has nothing to lose. Tweeting isn't enough.
OK, so once again you're hung up on his tweets as they offend you. Got it.
So how about all of these speeches he's given recently (usually once a week). I see them carried on various networks (and the speeches are offered to all networks, btw) Or am I just imagining that? In those speeches he discusses the ACA and the ramifications it's having and why congress needs to get him a bill to sign. Or am I just imagining that as well?
Then the MSM networks take his speeches, chop them up into soundbites to make it look nefarious. But we should just shrug that off?
I hope that McConnell isn't the majority leader the next go around and he's replaced by someone who is actually conservative, such as a Ted Cruz or Mike Lee but I'm not holding my breath. Ryan easily fended off a primary challenger in 2016 who may run against him again in 2018 but we'll see. I'm not convinced he'll lose yet. He could, Eric Cantor lost in a surprise primary upset, so it's possible.
Ryan has proven beyond a reason of doubt that he is more closely aligned with the liberals than the conservatives, his legislative track record has proven that.
After Monday's comments McConnell is toast, he committed political suicide. But he's too arrogant to realize it just yet.
Post by: invflatspin on August 10, 2017, 12:30:00 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-knocks-mcconnell-health-care-couldnt-get-done-131328194.html
I gotta say again, what's holding this up is the 'replace' part of the legislation. Keep it simple. Repeal ACA. Start over, start fresh, get all the stakeholders in one room and sort this out for the CITIZENS. Not the insurers. This is what Trump keeps talking about, but he still wants some kind of fed mandate which is what is so horrible about ACA.
Post by: Lucifer on August 10, 2017, 01:28:17 PM
Another Trump tweet slap again today.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-knocks-mcconnell-health-care-couldnt-get-done-131328194.html
I gotta say again, what's holding this up is the 'replace' part of the legislation. Keep it simple. Repeal ACA. Start over, start fresh, get all the stakeholders in one room and sort this out for the CITIZENS. Not the insurers. This is what Trump keeps talking about, but he still wants some kind of fed mandate which is what is so horrible about ACA.
The replace part is what the establishment fears the most. They are beholden to their donors who want their subsidies to stay in place and the democrats want the freebies to continue. The camel has his nose and most of his head under the tent now and it will be hard to go back.
Think about it, if the ACA was totally repealed and congress took the money set aside for insurance company subsidies they would be able to buy policies for the uninsured and save money to boot. But that ain't gonna happen as the uninsured don't contribute big bucks to politicians.
Follow the money.
Post by: invflatspin on August 10, 2017, 01:34:31 PM
Post by: Anthony on August 11, 2017, 08:03:05 AM
Post by: nddons on August 11, 2017, 11:05:45 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 11, 2017, 11:16:56 AM
Political speeches with the requisite fawning applause lines are very different than an address to the American people. One explains what he wants. The latter should explain WHY he wants it. It's also an opportunity to convince Americans why they should want it too. That is absent from his political speeches and 140 character tweets.
So he gives a 30 minute speech to the American people "selling" why we need this.
In case you've missed it lately, people are super pissed off at congress for their inactivity. Even your pal Paul Ryan is getting grief in his own district. Other congressmen and senators are basically in hiding because of the backlash of them not producing a bill.
Now tell me how the president giving a speech is going to get congress to act in actually getting him a bill on his desk?
Post by: asechrest on August 11, 2017, 12:08:26 PM
So he gives a 30 minute speech to the American people "selling" why we need this.
In case you've missed it lately, people are super pissed off at congress for their inactivity. Even your pal Paul Ryan is getting grief in his own district. Other congressmen and senators are basically in hiding because of the backlash of them not producing a bill.
Now tell me how the president giving a speech is going to get congress to act in actually getting him a bill on his desk?
Well it's certainly not a worthless endeavor, even if it doesn't immediately get a bill on his desk.
Post by: nddons on August 11, 2017, 12:45:19 PM
So he gives a 30 minute speech to the American people "selling" why we need this.So you're really arguing against Trump giving an unfiltered address to the American people? Because the status quo for the last 200 days is working so well, isn't it? SMH
In case you've missed it lately, people are super pissed off at congress for their inactivity. Even your pal Paul Ryan is getting grief in his own district. Other congressmen and senators are basically in hiding because of the backlash of them not producing a bill.
Now tell me how the president giving a speech is going to get congress to act in actually getting him a bill on his desk?
Post by: Lucifer on August 11, 2017, 01:02:17 PM
So you're really arguing against Trump giving an unfiltered address to the American people?
Nope, not at all. I've listened to his countless unfiltered attempts to get congress to act, to do something, anything to move this along. I also watched during the election where it was one of his top agenda items which he spoke about continuously. And I've listened to him after he was elected, and watched him pleading with congress to do something, anything to get this moving. I've even watched as he has tried to shame them into getting a workable bill.
He was elected on a mandate, and a big part of that mandate was repeal and replace. 63 million voters wanted that, and so far under the supposed "leadership" of Ryan and McConnell we've seen..........nothing.
Because the status quo for the last 200 days is working so well, isn't it? SMH
The reason for the status quo of the past 200 days lies squarely with congress. Your pal Paul Ryan (the democrats best friend) totally fucked up repeal and replace with a piece of shit he knew wouldn't get through the senate. The Mr. Turtle (McConnell) fucked around and couldn't even pass a bill he got passed previously. How's that for leadership?
Those two fucking clowns (Ryan and McConnell) are appeasing the swamp in a vain hope of getting him defeated by trying to blame this on Trump. It's going to backfire, big time. It already has for Mr. Turtle as he committed political suicide last Monday by his ignorant remarks that blew up in his face. And Ryan is hiding out in Wisc too afraid to face anyone.
Basic civics here folks. The bill has to originate in the house, get house and senate approval before being sent to the president to sign into LAW. Is it not obvious to you folks who is holding this up?
Post by: nddons on August 11, 2017, 01:12:39 PM
Nope, not at all. I've listened to his countless unfiltered attempts to get congress to act, to do something, anything to move this along. I also watched during the election where it was one of his top agenda items which he spoke about continuously. And I've listened to him after he was elected, and watched him pleading with congress to do something, anything to get this moving. I've even watched as he has tried to shame them into getting a workable bill.The Trump voters have yet to start appearing at Congressional offices and town hall meetings with pitchforks and torches. They aren't angry enough or motivated enough. They need motivation that they had in November. It's AWOL right now. That's what the status quo is getting you.
He was elected on a mandate, and a big part of that mandate was repeal and replace. 63 million voters wanted that, and so far under the supposed "leadership" of Ryan and McConnell we've seen..........nothing.
The reason for the status quo of the past 200 days lies squarely with congress. Your pal Paul Ryan (the democrats best friend) totally fucked up repeal and replace with a piece of shit he knew wouldn't get through the senate. The Mr. Turtle (McConnell) fucked around and couldn't even pass a bill he got passed previously. How's that for leadership?
Those two fucking clowns (Ryan and McConnell) are appeasing the swamp in a vain hope of getting him defeated by trying to blame this on Trump. It's going to backfire, big time. It already has for Mr. Turtle as he committed political suicide last Monday by his ignorant remarks that blew up in his face. And Ryan is hiding out in Wisc too afraid to face anyone.
Basic civics here folks. The bill has to originate in the house, get house and senate approval before being sent to the president to sign into LAW. Is it not obvious to you folks who is holding this up?
The dynamic to fix the Congressional logjam has to begin with Trump, because there is no one else to do it. Bitching and bitching that it's Congress' fault isn't keeping McConnell and Ryan from getting a good night's sleep. Something else now must change.
Post by: Lucifer on August 11, 2017, 01:42:06 PM
The Trump voters have yet to start appearing at Congressional offices and town hall meetings with pitchforks and torches. They aren't angry enough or motivated enough. They need motivation that they had in November. It's AWOL right now. That's what the status quo is getting you.
The dynamic to fix the Congressional logjam has to begin with Trump, because there is no one else to do it. Bitching and bitching that it's Congress' fault isn't keeping McConnell and Ryan from getting a good night's sleep. Something else now must change.
Maybe you aren't seeing the anger there in Wisc, but it's real everywhere else. Voters are getting real vocal about primarying out incumbents during 2018 because of their inaction. In the local media where the MSM doesn't control it and the internet the anger there is real.
Trump has been trying to move congress, McConnell's comments Monday shows how it's upsetting the swamp dwellers that Trump is staying on them to do something.
The swamp is bound and determined to get Trump out of office. This is why the establishment republicans will not question the Mueller investigation, even though on it's face it was done improperly and against several standing laws. Had this been an establishment republican as President they would have shut down this circus long ago. And this is why Ryan and McConnell are refusing to try to get anything Trump wants through congress, so in 2020 they can point at him and try to put the blame on his shoulders.
Just wait until tax reform comes up this fall. If you think healthcare was a clusterfuck, just watch what they do with tax reform.
And the MSM will keep telling you this is Trump's fault.
Post by: nddons on August 11, 2017, 02:09:08 PM
Maybe you aren't seeing the anger there in Wisc, but it's real everywhere else. Voters are getting real vocal about primarying out incumbents during 2018 because of their inaction. In the local media where the MSM doesn't control it and the internet the anger there is real.I judge results, and the anger that you say exists may exist via internet warriors, but it's not moving the needle when it comes to Congressional inaction. Not an inch.
Trump has been trying to move congress, McConnell's comments Monday shows how it's upsetting the swamp dwellers that Trump is staying on them to do something.
The swamp is bound and determined to get Trump out of office. This is why the establishment republicans will not question the Mueller investigation, even though on it's face it was done improperly and against several standing laws. Had this been an establishment republican as President they would have shut down this circus long ago. And this is why Ryan and McConnell are refusing to try to get anything Trump wants through congress, so in 2020 they can point at him and try to put the blame on his shoulders.
Just wait until tax reform comes up this fall. If you think healthcare was a clusterfuck, just watch what they do with tax reform.
And the MSM will keep telling you this is Trump's fault.
I remember at three times in the last decade where an angry electorate moved the needle. One was the Tea Party movement. One was the failed attempt to push through a comprehensive immigration reform package (Rubio's "Gang of Eight" debacle), and the push for "some" gun control after the Connecticut mass shooting at a school. In both cases Congress' phone lines were on fire, and in both cases bad laws failed to pass.
That passion doesn't exist today, as evidenced by the fact that not one Congress Critter is fearing for their job. Not one. They are all fat and happy because no voter is calling their bluff.
As of today, the "anger" you see is a paper tiger.
Post by: Lucifer on August 11, 2017, 02:29:39 PM
I judge results, and the anger that you say exists may exist via internet warriors, but it's not moving the needle when it comes to Congressional inaction. Not an inch.
I remember at three times in the last decade where an angry electorate moved the needle. One was the Tea Party movement. One was the failed attempt to push through a comprehensive immigration reform package (Rubio's "Gang of Eight" debacle), and the push for "some" gun control after the Connecticut mass shooting at a school. In both cases Congress' phone lines were on fire, and in both cases bad laws failed to pass.
That passion doesn't exist today, as evidenced by the fact that not one Congress Critter is fearing for their job. Not one. They are all fat and happy because no voter is calling their bluff.
As of today, the "anger" you see is a paper tiger.
And when I was on here a year ago, telling you Trump would win the election because the voters were sick and tired of the establishment, I was made fun of and rediculed. Yet I saw what was going on with the under current while you were wanting speeches with carefully chosen words.
You're in denial if you don't see the anger about what Ryan and McConnell are doing. 2018 will see a lot of incumbent republicans (and democrats) be shown the curb.
Post by: LevelWing on August 11, 2017, 11:10:21 PM
OK, so once again you're hung up on his tweets as they offend you. Got it.Where have I said they offend me? Please quote the post where I said I was offended.
So how about all of these speeches he's given recently (usually once a week). I see them carried on various networks (and the speeches are offered to all networks, btw) Or am I just imagining that? In those speeches he discusses the ACA and the ramifications it's having and why congress needs to get him a bill to sign. Or am I just imagining that as well?Stan hit on this in his comments below, which I agree with.
Then the MSM networks take his speeches, chop them up into soundbites to make it look nefarious. But we should just shrug that off?
Ryan has proven beyond a reason of doubt that he is more closely aligned with the liberals than the conservatives, his legislative track record has proven that.
After Monday's comments McConnell is toast, he committed political suicide. But he's too arrogant to realize it just yet.
Post by: Lucifer on August 15, 2017, 11:25:48 AM
And today we have the MSM tearing him apart and attacking him for the speech. They are twisting and inserting words to make him look bad. It's a fucking circus brought to you by the MSM.
And some think that Trump giving a 30 minute speech "selling" healthcare will somehow magically get congress to do their jobs.
A
Post by: Number7 on August 15, 2017, 12:55:22 PM
Force Congress AND every federal employee onto obamacare and watch how fast it disappears.