PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on December 04, 2018, 07:00:36 PM
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Tucker Carlson has this vegan here saying we need to change our language. Can't say "bring home the bacon" we need to say bring home the bagel.
Can say "all your eggs in one basket" Say "all your berries in one basket".
"More than one way to skin a cat". More than one way to peel a potato.
I can't
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Tucker Carlson has this vegan here saying we need to change our language. Can't say "bring home the bacon" we need to say bring home the bagel.
Can say "all your eggs in one basket" Say "all your berries in one basket".
"More than one way to skin a cat". More than one way to peel a potato.
I can't
How many ways to skin a vegan?
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"We deal in lead friend."
Steve McQueen "The Magnificent Seven".
Is lead Vegan?
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I only rarely bring home bagels, the ones here suck. I make them more often, mine are yummy. Sourdough sweetened with barley malt.
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I only rarely bring home bagels, the ones here suck. I make them more often, mine are yummy. Sourdough sweetened with barley malt.
Oh I bet they are good. I never have eaten a bagel I thought was good but I've never had a homemade one.
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Oh I bet they are good. I never have eaten a bagel I thought was good but I've never had a homemade one.
Very few places have good bagels, I can't find them at all here. Airplane comes in handy for that. Mine are boiled in good old fashioned lye. A good ethnic bakery can do better, but only marginally.
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There is no bagel better than a good home made bagel; for about a day. The problem is they go stale quickly unless you add a bunch of preservatives like the stores and bakeries do. I used to make bagels at home, but it was too much trouble to make one or two, but any more than that went to waste.
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I like bagels ShamaLama!
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There is no bagel better than a good home made bagel; for about a day. The problem is they go stale quickly unless you add a bunch of preservatives like the stores and bakeries do. I used to make bagels at home, but it was too much trouble to make one or two, but any more than that went to waste.
The sourdough slows down the deterioration to a degree.
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There is nothing like San Francisco Sourdough bread. Nothing. And you must buy it in San Fran as the climate helps give it the flavor. Sourdough bread elsewhere just isn't the same. A bowl of San Fran Cioppino, (fish stew) and a big piece of Sourdough bread is heaven.
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Otis my man!
Been interested in trying to make bagels, but never pulled the trigger. Two weeks off over Christmas, maybe then. Any special tricks?
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There is nothing like San Francisco Sourdough bread. Nothing. And you must buy it in San Fran as the climate helps give it the flavor. Sourdough bread elsewhere just isn't the same. A bowl of San Fran Cioppino, (fish stew) and a big piece of Sourdough bread is heaven.
Does it smell like urine? Because last time I was in San Francisco, the entire town smelled like that. On top of that I got in a cab after business dinner at Fisherman’s Wharf with three other people, so sat in the front seat, in which someone had previously pissed. I had to throw those pants away when I got back to the hotel. Disgusting place.
Sorry, just sad to see a great city fall into a ghetto.
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Does it smell like urine? Because last time I was in San Francisco, the entire town smelled like that. On top of that I got in a cab after business dinner at Fisherman’s Wharf with three other people, so sat in the front seat, in which someone had previously pissed. I had to throw those pants away when I got back to the hotel. Disgusting place.
Sorry, just sad to see a great city fall into a ghetto.
The sadder part is that the people who let that happen are also disgusted with it, and are moving into conservative states and towns and bringing the mindset with them that created the hellholes they left.
As for bagels, we have an excellent shop wherein the daily fresh bagel may be obtained. My favorite is the spent grain bagel, made with the malty, nutty goodness of grains used in brewing beer.
They take the day olds and slice them at about 2 mm thick, toast ‘em, and sell bags of toasted bagel chips.
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Does it smell like urine? Because last time I was in San Francisco, the entire town smelled like that. On top of that I got in a cab after business dinner at Fisherman’s Wharf with three other people, so sat in the front seat, in which someone had previously pissed. I had to throw those pants away when I got back to the hotel. Disgusting place.
Sorry, just sad to see a great city fall into a ghetto.
Well, I haven't been there in almost 20 years, so don't know the situation personally, although I've read a bunch of negatives. At the time it didn't smell like urine. There was just a bunch of fruitcakes running around like idiots.
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There was just a bunch of fruitcakes running around like idiots.
Now those fruitcakes have become so open minded that their brains have fallen out.
The city is disgusting now. Sad to see it happen, but the city isn't anything like a shining star anymore, more like a dull pile of feces. Literally.
BTDT, got the tetanus shot.
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Sad. It was a beautiful city at one time. One of the prettiest in some ways, and a lot of fun too. Progressives ruin everything they touch.
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There is nothing like San Francisco Sourdough bread. Nothing. And you must buy it in San Fran as the climate helps give it the flavor. Sourdough bread elsewhere just isn't the same. A bowl of San Fran Cioppino, (fish stew) and a big piece of Sourdough bread is heaven.
This is because of the local lactobateria, Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis. Most sourdoughs are a microbiological community, where yeasts break down the glycogen in the flour, and lactobacteria break down the waste products of the yeast. They help each other, and make very stable communities that aren't easily contaminated. Sourdough batters all become local over time. For example, I started with a very old Italian batter, but over time it has acquired yeasts and lactobacilli local to me, and thus tastes different. Every locality has its own distinctive flavor. My sourdoughs have a wonderfully deep flavor that I miss when I make breads without.
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If you want to take a great, well run city and destroy it, which party do you put in full and absolute control?
a) Republicans
b) Democrats
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Otis my man!
Been interested in trying to make bagels, but never pulled the trigger. Two weeks off over Christmas, maybe then. Any special tricks?
Yes, they need to be boiled in a basic solution. I use good old fashioned Sodium Hydroxide that I bought off Amazon, though you could use water or bicarb as well. Other than that its pretty standard bread making.
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Does it smell like urine? Because last time I was in San Francisco, the entire town smelled like that. On top of that I got in a cab after business dinner at Fisherman’s Wharf with three other people, so sat in the front seat, in which someone had previously pissed. I had to throw those pants away when I got back to the hotel. Disgusting place.
Sorry, just sad to see a great city fall into a ghetto.
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So does this mean I’m supposed to eat bacon, egg, and cheese bagels rather than biscuits? That sucks.
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So does this mean I’m supposed to eat bacon, egg, and cheese bagels rather than biscuits? That sucks.
Biscuits are just a chemically leavened pastry that are quick and really facile to put together. Takes me about an hour, form start to biscuits and cleaning are both done . Bagels are bread, they take lots of time and quite a bit of know how. I said it was standard bread making, but that encompasses quite a bit.
I was watching one of my favorite programs, the Great British Baking Show. One of the contestants, clearly a very accomplished baker, really didn't know how to make bread. Needless to say he got bumped off on bread day.
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Biscuits are just a chemically leavened pastry that are quick and really facile to put together. Takes me about an hour, form start to biscuits and cleaning are both done . Bagels are bread, they take lots of time and quite a bit of know how.
Yep, leavened with baking soda, right? Whereas bread leavened with yeast takes time and skill. I've made both. There's nothing like good yeasty bread. And now I'm not supposed to be eating gluten at all. :'(
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Biscuits are just a chemically leavened pastry that are quick and really facile to put together. Takes me about an hour, form start to biscuits and cleaning are both done . Bagels are bread, they take lots of time and quite a bit of know how. I said it was standard bread making, but that encompasses quite a bit.
I was watching one of my favorite programs, the Great British Baking Show. One of the contestants, clearly a very accomplished baker, really didn't know how to make bread. Needless to say he got bumped off on bread day.
I like biscuits but I also really like a good bread. Most bagels are not good bread.
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Yep, leavened with baking soda, right? Whereas bread leavened with yeast takes time and skill. I've made both. There's nothing like good yeasty bread. And now I'm not supposed to be eating gluten at all. :'(
Are you suffering from Celiac's disease? Otherwise it is very unlikely that gluten is doing anything to you at all.
Yes, biscuits are leavened with baking soda, but there is a bit more to it. Biscuits are supposed to be soft and moist, like cake or pastry. So when you make them you keep kneading to a bare minimum just to get the dough together, and no more. When I bake mine they often still have lumps, they work themselves out. Bread, on the other hand, has to be extensively kneaded to get the gluten to hold all the CO2. Moreover, it has to be fermented for the correct amount of time. Too little and bread comes out too dense. Too much and the bread collapses. Most breads go through a second knead cycle that is also crucial, too much and the bread is too close quartered. And getting breads baked all the way through is really , really tricky. I've had more than one not get baked all the way in the middle.
Of course, my baking is spectacularly more difficult because I always bake with whole grains, which reduce rising and change texture.
Biscuits, on the other hand, can easily be mad with whole grain flours. They don't come put quite as yummy as those made from white flour, but they can also be made gluten free.
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I like biscuits but I also really like a good bread. Most bagels are not good bread.
Good bagels are really good bread. But yes, most bagels are bad. I can't get good bagels here at all. A side effect of too few Joos in the world, not enough good bagels. A really good bagel is truly a wondrous thing to eat.
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This thread caused me to stop by our local bagel shop yesterday and buy one multigrain bagel. Enjoyed half fresh and chewy, toasted the other half later and doused it with butter. Infinitely more satisfying than a slice of bread.
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Speaking of bread, I bought a book some time ago called Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day. It uses a no-knead master recipe. I like it. Real crusty. Doesn't take a lot of time. And you can make a big batch of dough that lives in the fridge for a couple weeks and break off some each evening to make homemade bread. But it doesn't make good pizza dough.
I just recently discovered why my homemade pizza was always soggy in the center under the sauce -- I was not using a real pizza stone. Rather, I was using a cast iron pizza "stone". I'm not entirely sure what the difference is but my first two pizzas on the traditional pizza stone no longer had a soggy center radius. For my sauce, I buy canned San Marzano tomatoes, hand crush them, do NOT cook them, add some course salt, a dabble of good olive oil, and then spread on the pizza. I tuck basil leaves under the pieces of mozzarella cheese. I really like the sauce, but have never been real happy with my pizza dough, whether I buy it or try to make it. I think, to do it right, I'd need put the effort into a real pizza dough with sourdough starter.
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I used to have a bread machine, and my ex wife would make bread, but it would always come out way too dense, and heavy. Good but too dense, and high in calorie. I also find most bagels too dense, and it is difficult to find good ones. You have to go to a big city with a Jewish community, go to a Jewish deli that makes their own. Get some cream cheese, and thinly sliced Lox, and enjoy. Nothing like it.
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Speaking of bread, I bought a book some time ago called Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day. It uses a no-knead master recipe. I like it. Real crusty. Doesn't take a lot of time. And you can make a big batch of dough that lives in the fridge for a couple weeks and break off some each evening to make homemade bread. But it doesn't make good pizza dough.
I just recently discovered why my homemade pizza was always soggy in the center under the sauce -- I was not using a real pizza stone. Rather, I was using a cast iron pizza "stone". I'm not entirely sure what the difference is but my first two pizzas on the traditional pizza stone no longer had a soggy center radius. For my sauce, I buy canned San Marzano tomatoes, hand crush them, do NOT cook them, add some course salt, a dabble of good olive oil, and then spread on the pizza. I tuck basil leaves under the pieces of mozzarella cheese. I really like the sauce, but have never been real happy with my pizza dough, whether I buy it or try to make it. I think, to do it right, I'd need put the effort into a real pizza dough with sourdough starter.
A pizza stone stays in your oven and gets really hot. You're supposed to bake pizza at around 700 degrees F, but most ovens don't go that high, mine only goes to 550. So the stone heats up in the oven, then the pizza goes on after having been made on a peel. Takes 5 or six minutes to bake.
The problem of a wet center is not a made from not using a stone. I've baked pizzas in all sorts of pans, though I prefer a stone. Still, I've never had a pizza turn out soggy in the middle. Something else is the culprit.
Sorry, your sauce sounds bland as can be to me. I sweat a mirepoix, deglaze with cheap bourbon then add canned tomatoes of some stripe. I reduce the tomato sauce while the veggies go in the oven under the broiler, where they remain for 15 or 20 minutes, enough to give them some color. Tomato reduction gets mixed in and the whole thing gets pureed. Correct for spices, thicken with cornstarch and then water can in half pint jars. One jar does two pizzas. My last batch made ten jars, if I recomember right.
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I used to have a bread machine, and my ex wife would make bread, but it would always come out way too dense, and heavy. Good but too dense, and high in calorie. I also find most bagels too dense, and it is difficult to find good ones. You have to go to a big city with a Jewish community, go to a Jewish deli that makes their own. Get some cream cheese, and thinly sliced Lox, and enjoy. Nothing like it.
My breads are denser than most people would like, but they all contain a significant fraction of whole grains. Then again, they're better for you than most breads. I made lox a couple months ago. Mine isn't as good as the stuff you buy, I can't get as good a salmon as those guys. But mine is good enough.
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Sorry, your sauce sounds bland as can be to me. I sweat a mirepoix, deglaze with cheap bourbon then add canned tomatoes of some stripe. I reduce the tomato sauce while the veggies go in the oven under the broiler, where they remain for 15 or 20 minutes, enough to give them some color. Tomato reduction gets mixed in and the whole thing gets pureed. Correct for spices, thicken with cornstarch and then water can in half pint jars. One jar does two pizzas. My last batch made ten jars, if I recomember right.
I'm sure your sauce is good but it's not at all appropriate for the pizza I'm shooting for, which is a thin crust, well done, margherita pie. The sauce should be simple, with the high quality tomatoes the star of the show. It's delicious. There is no need to precook the sauce. The tomatoes are cooked before canning, and the sauce cooks on the pie.
Good tomatoes, salt, a touch of EVOO, basil. A dash of Oregano if you're feeling fancy.
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I'm sure your sauce is good but it's not at all appropriate for the pizza I'm shooting for, which is a thin crust, well done, margherita pie. The sauce should be simple, with the high quality tomatoes the star of the show. It's delicious. There is no need to precook the sauce. The tomatoes are cooked before canning, and the sauce cooks on the pie.
Good tomatoes, salt, a touch of EVOO, basil. A dash of Oregano if you're feeling fancy.
Then I think I spot your problem. Really thin crust pizzas are very tricky to make. I bet ca$h money that yours is too thin in spots, leading to the effects you see. I actually avoid too thin a crust, I don't like the texture at all an edit is easily blown. That, and it won't work at all for a sourdough crust, and I make no other kind.
Of course, if'n you want real tomato flavor then you need real tomatoes harvested in season. Poach over boiling water to skin, seed, slice and apply to your pizza. I build a sauce around tomatoes because the canned ones really don't have much flavor at all.
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What temperature do you guys cook your pizzas, and do you pre-cook the crust for a time before adding sauce, and the toppings? I have read to get a really good crust, you need to take the temperature limiter off your oven, and cook it at really high temps.
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For reading pleasure - this is what I'm shooting for:
http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
He rigged the self cleaning function to cook with. For this type, IIRC 900ish degrees is a target for top of oven. A couple minutes cook time (if that) and done.
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For reading pleasure - this is what I'm shooting for:
http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
He rigged the self cleaning function to cook with. For this type, IIRC 900ish degrees is a target for top of oven. A couple minutes cook time (if that) and done.
Thanks. Yeah, 900F, that's what I thought. Never thought to use the self cleaning function, but that makes sense. The crust is the toughest thing to get right with pizza. Mine always comes out too soggy. The onions, and green peppers create a juice, and the sauce is wet so it seeps into the crust, so I guess the oven isn't hot enough to evaporate the liquid.
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Blow Torch works well.
Well, a bit of acetylene taste, but works.
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Speaking of bread, I bought a book some time ago called Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day. It uses a no-knead master recipe. I like it. Real crusty. Doesn't take a lot of time. And you can make a big batch of dough that lives in the fridge for a couple weeks and break off some each evening to make homemade bread. But it doesn't make good pizza dough.
I just recently discovered why my homemade pizza was always soggy in the center under the sauce -- I was not using a real pizza stone. Rather, I was using a cast iron pizza "stone". I'm not entirely sure what the difference is but my first two pizzas on the traditional pizza stone no longer had a soggy center radius. For my sauce, I buy canned San Marzano tomatoes, hand crush them, do NOT cook them, add some course salt, a dabble of good olive oil, and then spread on the pizza. I tuck basil leaves under the pieces of mozzarella cheese. I really like the sauce, but have never been real happy with my pizza dough, whether I buy it or try to make it. I think, to do it right, I'd need put the effort into a real pizza dough with sourdough starter.
That sounds like a pizza that I make and love, but I add a bunch of thinly sliced garlic to the mix and top with crushed red pepper flakes.
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That sounds like a pizza that I make and love, but I add a bunch of thinly sliced garlic to the mix and top with crushed red pepper flakes.
That sounds good!
What I'd really love is a brick pizza oven in the back yard.
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That sounds good!
What I'd really love is a brick pizza oven in the back yard.
I'm told by our local pizza parlor owner that those are generally gas fired and use a lot of energy. You might find one that has been converted to LPG but they aren't as efficient and use a lot of gas.
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I bake my pies at 550, which is as high as my oven goes. I'm not going to try and cook on the cleaning cycle or trying kluge anything, I like my oven the way it is. My results are quite acceptable as is. The thing is, the ingredients that go into a pizza are going to affect its taste and texture far far more than the temparature at which its baked.
If pizzas are coming out soggy it isn't because the oven is too hot, its because there's too much water in the dough or the space is too thin.
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I bake my pies at 550, which is as high as my oven goes. I'm not going to try and cook on the cleaning cycle or trying kluge anything, I like my oven the way it is. My results are quite acceptable as is. The thing is, the ingredients that go into a pizza are going to affect its taste and texture far far more than the temparature at which its baked.
If pizzas are coming out soggy it isn't because the oven is too hot, its because there's too much water in the dough or the space is too thin.
Read the link I posted. You'll want to settle in, it's a long read.
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Read the link I posted. You'll want to settle in, it's a long read.
Mostly what I do for the most part. I don't do the hydration thing, nor do I cold ferment. I wouldn't even if I were depending on the sourdough to rise the dough, when I want pizza I want it now, not tomorrow. His dough is way, way wetter than I would ever want. That would be hard to cook in a normal oven. I've actually made pies with a wet dough like that, but I didn't think they were really any better than others.
Might try his method of hydration, I can see mechanism behind it (it isn't at all unusual to rest dough to allow the water to penetrate the flour). What I really need to do is get another pizza stone, they cook better than anything else I've seen. I'll try and use a cookie sheet as a peel.
By the way, I'll put my pies up against his. I'll put my pies up against anyone.
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Are you suffering from Celiac's disease? Otherwise it is very unlikely that gluten is doing anything to you at all.
I have not been diagnosed with Celiac disease via intestinal biopsy and I don't have weight loss which is a classic symptom. But I have tested positive for Anti-gliadin IgA and I have two copies of the HLA-DQ2.5 haplotype which carries the highest risk for CD. I have been told by all my doctors to eat gluten free. The diagnosis is "gluten senstivity".
The problem with eating gluten free is the replacements for wheat flour tend to be very high glycemic. I am pre-diabetic so when faced with a choice between wheat flour products and gluten free products made from rice or tapioca, I have a dilemma. Rice and tapioca send my blood sugar soaring. But I have several idiopathic health problems which could be associated with gluten and ideally I'd like to be completely gluten free to see if my health improves.
But it's hard to do that when I love bread and pasta and cakes and pies. Ideally I would eat "paleo" or unprocessed meat, fish, low sugar fruit, nuts, and low-carb, high-fiber vegetables. But I don't do a good job sticking to it.
Lately my husband has been making GF recipes with coconut flour and almond flour. They work well for crab cakes, and breakfast muffins, but I don't think there is a good replacement for wheat flour when it comes to bread.
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I have not been diagnosed with Celiac disease via intestinal biopsy and I don't have weight loss which is a classic symptom. But I have tested positive for Anti-gliadin IgA and I have two copies of the HLA-DQ2.5 haplotype which carries the highest risk for CD. I have been told by all my doctors to eat gluten free. The diagnosis is "gluten sensitivity".
Yup, that would do it.
The problem with eating gluten free is the replacements for wheat flour tend to be very high glycemic. I am pre-diabetic so when faced with a choice between wheat flour products and gluten free products made from rice or tapioca, I have a dilemma. Rice and tapioca send my blood sugar soaring. But I have several idiopathic health problems which could be associated with gluten and ideally I'd like to be completely gluten free to see if my health improves.
There are a number of whole grains that are low if not free of gluten, but are hypoglycemic compared to wheat. Maize, for example, along with Rye, Spelt, Barley, Kamut Quinoa, Buckwheat and others. I'm not too partial to any of these in breads, as the loaves tend to come out flat. they make very, very good biscuits though.
But it's hard to do that when I love bread and pasta and cakes and pies. Ideally I would eat "paleo" or unprocessed meat, fish, low sugar fruit, nuts, and low-carb, high-fiber vegetables. But I don't do a good job sticking to it.
I make Spelt pasta, Buckwheat waffles, and Kamut pancakes. Haven't tried anything whole grain with a pie crust, but you shouldn't be eating sweet pies anyway. Same goes for cakes, you have to keep the portions very very small. Problem with desserts is if they aren't light and sweet they just aren't dessert.
Lately my husband has been making GF recipes with coconut flour and almond flour. They work well for crab cakes, and breakfast muffins, but I don't think there is a good replacement for wheat flour when it comes to bread.
I can't disagree with you at all. My solution is to make loaves that are at least partially whole grain. My latest rye bread was roughly half rye flour, half wheat flour. Its rise was low, but not unacceptable. I've made acceptable loaves with a number of grains doing this. Mrs. Steingar has the same problems vis a vis carbohydrates, so I've lots of practice at trying to make hypoglycemic foods.
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I'm sure your sauce is good but it's not at all appropriate for the pizza I'm shooting for, which is a thin crust, well done, margherita pie. The sauce should be simple, with the high quality tomatoes the star of the show. It's delicious. There is no need to precook the sauce. The tomatoes are cooked before canning, and the sauce cooks on the pie.
Good tomatoes, salt, a touch of EVOO, basil. A dash of Oregano if you're feeling fancy.
Am I going to have to ban you and Steingar for criticizing each other’s sauce? Lol.
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The pizza I make has a crust made from Mozarella cheese, Almond flour, cream cheese, and a egg.
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As a pizza trick, put your pizza stone on the top rack and turn your broiler on it for about 20 minutes. It will reach nearly 700 degrees. The. Turn the oven back to 450 and bake the pizza.
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Am I going to have to ban you and Steingar for criticizing each other’s sauce? Lol.
Let me put it this way. If Pizza sauces were presidents, mine would be a combination of Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, and Paul Bunyan, and his would be Hillary Clinton.
Yes, I know.
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Let me put it this way. If Pizza sauces were presidents, mine would be a combination of Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, and Paul Bunyan, and his would be Hillary Clinton.
Yes, I know.
Now, you're getting too political. You know the ROE. You must have visual recognition before you fire.
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That sounds good!
What I'd really love is a brick pizza oven in the back yard.
Friends built a wood fired one in their backyard. They mothballed it after they each gained 30 pounds. Pizza in a wood fired oven is so delish it is hard to stop making and eating it. :)
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Let me put it this way. If Pizza sauces were presidents, mine would be a combination of Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, and Paul Bunyan, and his would be Hillary Clinton.
Yes, I know.
Totally agree. Steingar’s sounds awful ... insipid and uninspiring.
BTW, Paul Bunyan was never President. He did have a flapjack mix company, though, I seem to recall. ;D
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Totally agree. Steingar’s sounds awful ... insipid and uninspiring.
So how would you make a tomato sauce to your liking?
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So how would you make a tomato sauce to your liking?
I’m a minimalist when it comes to pizza and prefer the Margarita style asechrest does. For that you don’t even need sauce, just excellent fresh tomatoes.
Should sauce be desired, it should consist almost entirely of tomatoes. It can easily be made by mixing excellent tomato paste with a little red wine, and then applied sparingly to the pizza dough crust.
Here’s yours. Sorry, that’s not pizza sauce, it’s soup. You lost me at bourbon and made me grimace at cornstarch.
Sorry, your sauce sounds bland as can be to me. I sweat a mirepoix, deglaze with cheap bourbon then add canned tomatoes of some stripe. I reduce the tomato sauce while the veggies go in the oven under the broiler, where they remain for 15 or 20 minutes, enough to give them some color. Tomato reduction gets mixed in and the whole thing gets pureed. Correct for spices, thicken with cornstarch and then water can in half pint jars. One jar does two pizzas. My last batch made ten jars, if I recomember right.
But hey, liberals mess up everything they touch, so your weird concoction is just to be expected. ;)
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I’ll not dignify anything this glaringly ignorant with a response.
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I’ll not dignify anything this glaringly ignorant with a response.
Why? People here reply to your glaringly ignorant post.
If you would untwist your panties and lighten up you could actually enjoy the conversations here.
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I don't understand why y'all have a problem with bourbon in pizza sauce.
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I’ll not dignify anything this glaringly ignorant with a response.
I call that a response.
We differ about what makes a good pizza sauce, therefore I am glaringly ignorant. ::)
Whatevs.
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I don't understand why y'all have a problem with bourbon in pizza sauce.
A waste of perfectly good bourbon?
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I'm joking about the sauce war. I bet his sauce is good. Just not my style.
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Different styles of interacting - on the boats, what you said would have been laughed at and probably a retort about what was actually in your sauce, in excruciatingly precise detail. I suspect the words "crotch cheese" would have been invoked, although that might have been too much of an escalation :)
People in the military have a different way of relating. Fortunately most of us have good self control.
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I call that a response.
We differ about what makes a good pizza sauce, therefore I am glaringly ignorant. ::)
Whatevs.
Because you think a tomato sauce with aromatics is more bland than plain tomatoes. Even my mother, who was one of the worst cooks I've ever witnessed (how I got so fat I'll never know), knew more than that. Mind you, you are perfectly entitled to like one more than another. That might be poor taste, but is not woeful ignorance. But calling a tomato sauce with aromatics and spices bland compared to plain tomatoes is really, really stupid.
The bourbon has two functions. First, it absorbs alcohol-soluble flavors that don't make it into the oil. Second, it adds tannins, which are mostly long chain aromatic that give deep, savory flavors. You don't add enough to taste in the end product, bourbon is sour and too much would ruin a sauce, just like too much vodka ruins a vodka cream sauce. But it adds to a sauce's complexity and depth. By the way, this works with any aged liquor. Tequila, rum, scotch, rye, and brandy all work fine, though brandy can add a bit more sweetness than you might like. You can also deglaze with any kind of wine or beer. I prefer the booze as I feel it brings in more of the flavors I want. I find scotch too harsh, but use all the others depending on what I have around and what I'm cooking and what I have around.
You shouldn't use good booze to deglaze a saute (I don't think you need to deglaze a sweat), it doesn't work as well as the cheap stuff. The harshness in the flavor of really bottom rate booze works really, really well in food. I wouldn't use a good wine in food either, I think the cheaper ones work fine if not better. I would never use so-called "cooking wine". To me if it isn't good enough to drink it isn't good enough to eat.
That, and nothing but nothing blends with chocolate better than bourbon. Even Mrs. Steingar, who despises my drinking with a considerable passion, uses that combination.
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Because you think a tomato sauce with aromatics is more bland than plain tomatoes. Even my mother, who was one of the worst cooks I've ever witnessed (how I got so fat I'll never know), knew more than that. Mind you, you are perfectly entitled to like one more than another. That might be poor taste, but is not woeful ignorance. But calling a tomato sauce with aromatics and spices bland compared to plain tomatoes is really, really stupid.
The bourbon has two functions. First, it absorbs alcohol-soluble flavors that don't make it into the oil. Second, it adds tannins, which are mostly long chain aromatic that give deep, savory flavors. You don't add enough to taste in the end product, bourbon is sour and too much would ruin a sauce, just like too much vodka ruins a vodka cream sauce. But it adds to a sauce's complexity and depth. By the way, this works with any aged liquor. Tequila, rum, scotch, rye, and brandy all work fine, though brandy can add a bit more sweetness than you might like. You can also deglaze with any kind of wine or beer. I prefer the booze as I feel it brings in more of the flavors I want. I find scotch too harsh, but use all the others depending on what I have around and what I'm cooking and what I have around.
You shouldn't use good booze to deglaze a saute (I don't think you need to deglaze a sweat), it doesn't work as well as the cheap stuff. The harshness in the flavor of really bottom rate booze works really, really well in food. I wouldn't use a good wine in food either, I think the cheaper ones work fine if not better. I would never use so-called "cooking wine". To me if it isn't good enough to drink it isn't good enough to eat.
That, and nothing but nothing blends with chocolate better than bourbon. Even Mrs. Steingar, who despises my drinking with a considerable passion, uses that combination.
My mom was like that, hated alcohol with a passion, but she'd eat boozy bourbon balls. Recent years, since her late 80s, she has started to take a glass of wine or liqueur now and then if you offer it to her. She's also started cussing - completely out of character for her, you never ever heard her say a cuss word. She would not even say "damn". I think she figures she's going to die soon and might as well get it all out of her system.
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Because you think a tomato sauce with aromatics is more bland than plain tomatoes. Even my mother, who was one of the worst cooks I've ever witnessed (how I got so fat I'll never know), knew more than that. Mind you, you are perfectly entitled to like one more than another. That might be poor taste, but is not woeful ignorance. But calling a tomato sauce with aromatics and spices bland compared to plain tomatoes is really, really stupid.
The bourbon has two functions. First, it absorbs alcohol-soluble flavors that don't make it into the oil. Second, it adds tannins, which are mostly long chain aromatic that give deep, savory flavors. You don't add enough to taste in the end product, bourbon is sour and too much would ruin a sauce, just like too much vodka ruins a vodka cream sauce. But it adds to a sauce's complexity and depth. By the way, this works with any aged liquor. Tequila, rum, scotch, rye, and brandy all work fine, though brandy can add a bit more sweetness than you might like. You can also deglaze with any kind of wine or beer. I prefer the booze as I feel it brings in more of the flavors I want. I find scotch too harsh, but use all the others depending on what I have around and what I'm cooking and what I have around.
You shouldn't use good booze to deglaze a saute (I don't think you need to deglaze a sweat), it doesn't work as well as the cheap stuff. The harshness in the flavor of really bottom rate booze works really, really well in food. I wouldn't use a good wine in food either, I think the cheaper ones work fine if not better. I would never use so-called "cooking wine". To me if it isn't good enough to drink it isn't good enough to eat.
That, and nothing but nothing blends with chocolate better than bourbon. Even Mrs. Steingar, who despises my drinking with a considerable passion, uses that combination.
This appears to ignore the realities of cooking; that sometimes, more ingredients add character and depth. And sometimes, more ingredients serve to mask your feature component. Shall we add bourbon and cornstarch to guacamole?
What I want in my ideal pizza sauce is simplicity, brightness, freshness, and the taste of the tomatoes as the lead-in. Conducive to those desires is a simple sauce, that is not pre-cooked, not overly processed, not mixed with cornstarch slurry, and with complementary ingredients that enhance but not mask the character lead.
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This appears to ignore the realities of cooking; that sometimes, more ingredients add character and depth. And sometimes, more ingredients serve to mask your feature component. Shall we add bourbon and cornstarch to guacamole?
What I want in my ideal pizza sauce is simplicity, brightness, freshness, and the taste of the tomatoes as the lead-in. Conducive to those desires is a simple sauce, that is not pre-cooked, not overly processed, not mixed with cornstarch slurry, and with complementary ingredients that enhance but not mask the character lead.
A good cook will use spices that accentuate the tomato flavor rather than seek to mask it.
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Everything Bagel for ShamaLama Please!
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"The Negroes stole our dates!!!"
Flounder - "Animal House"
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A good cook will use spices that accentuate the tomato flavor rather than seek to mask it.
Sure. But said chef would not use your recipe to create a traditional margherita pizza sauce.
http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/public/pdf/disciplinare%202008%20UK.pdf
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This appears to ignore the realities of cooking; that sometimes, more ingredients add character and depth. And sometimes, more ingredients serve to mask your feature component. Shall we add bourbon and cornstarch to guacamole?
What I want in my ideal pizza sauce is simplicity, brightness, freshness, and the taste of the tomatoes as the lead-in. Conducive to those desires is a simple sauce, that is not pre-cooked, not overly processed, not mixed with cornstarch slurry, and with complementary ingredients that enhance but not mask the character lead.
I agree.
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Sure. But said chef would not use your recipe to create a traditional margherita pizza sauce.
http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/public/pdf/disciplinare%202008%20UK.pdf
John Cleese explained British food saying "we had an empire to run".
In a way you''re a far better cook than I. If you're really at committed than you have a line on fresh tomatoes, you know how to skin them quickly, and you've a food mill to process them. Canned tomatoes have very little flavor of any kind.
I of course have none of these things, since tomatoes are very seasonal where i live.
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The Romans had an Empire to run also, which was arguably larger than the British Empire. Why did they develop a cuisine? My guess is they weren't landlocked, and took ideas from all their conquered territories which ended up as the very diverse Italian menu. Americans think Italian food is just pasta, pizza, etc. Yeah.....NO.
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I of course have none of these things, since tomatoes are very seasonal where i live.
Most supermarkets carry fresh tomatoes year round. Maybe not at that wilderness outpost where you live, but most of the US for sure.
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IMHO you can't get good tomatoes anymore. The stuff we buy at the store is practically tasteless. Maybe at farmer's markets or grown yourself.
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I have a local farmer where I buy as much of my produce as I can. He has chickens, so I get brown eggs. But he also usually has a selection of vegetables, and fruit in the summer and fall. I get my tomatoes there as they actually have taste. The best tomatoes I get, come from my neighbor who grows them. They taste like real tomatoes. Totally different from the grocery store. I have no idea what they sell.
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IMHO you can't get good tomatoes anymore. The stuff we buy at the store is practically tasteless. Maybe at farmer's markets or grown yourself.
I haven't had that problem.
Now, in all fairness when I was growing up we had a farm and grew our own vegetables, so it was rare to ever get store bought ones. But what I've been buying in the grocery today satisfy me.
We all have our different taste and likes.
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John Cleese explained British food saying "we had an empire to run".
In a way you''re a far better cook than I. If you're really at committed than you have a line on fresh tomatoes, you know how to skin them quickly, and you've a food mill to process them. Canned tomatoes have very little flavor of any kind.
I of course have none of these things, since tomatoes are very seasonal where i live.
https://www.bonappetit.com/story/canned-tomatoes-are-better-than-fresh-ones
You've got to get good canned tomatoes. Whole, peeled, only salt as an added ingredient. You can use price as a guide at first, but you'll definitely want to make sure the price is born out in the flavor. San Marzano tomatoes are often very good. That site I posted a page or so back, varasanos pizza recipe, explores a number of types of canned tomatoes.
I'm a decent cook, but a terrible chef. I would struggle to imagine flavors and put them together in great, unique ways. But I have done some deep dives on certain dishes that I love, and I built recipes using combinations of others.
I make a good paella on my 18-inch paella pan on my Weber grill, for example.
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My grandfather would never ever eat a canned tomato.
He was in France during WW1, and they ate canned tomatoes for every meal. After he came home he never touched them again for the rest of his life.
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The Romans had an Empire to run also, which was arguably larger than the British Empire. Why did they develop a cuisine? My guess is they weren't landlocked, and took ideas from all their conquered territories which ended up as the very diverse Italian menu. Americans think Italian food is just pasta, pizza, etc. Yeah.....NO.
Anthony, the Romans didn't have tomatoes at all. They mostly drenched their food with a fermented fish sauce. The rich folks got the clarified broth, the rest got the chunky stuff. The Chinese had almost the same thing, they called it Cat-sup, which is where I think we get the word Ketchup.
Tomatoes were brought from the new world. Originally the fruit was small, and the plants considered ornamental. They were thought to be poisonous, in part because their acid leached lead out of the pewter serving ware used in olden times. It was selective breeding that allows the fruit to gain its more familiar size, making tomatoes a GMO.
Most of the tomatoes you buy in the store are nearly devoid of flavor. They are of a variety that ripens uniformly and looks good at the store, but it does so at the expense of sugar and flavor. Heirloom tomatoes you buy from farmers markets have far more flavor, but don't ripen as well. Canning wrecks tomato flavors, doesn't matter who does it. Does matter which tomatoes you can though.
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Where did I say the Romans had tomatoes in my post?
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Most supermarkets carry fresh tomatoes year round. Maybe not at that wilderness outpost where you live, but most of the US for sure.
Most supermarket tomatoes you get in the winter are grown in Florida, which is a horrid place to grow tomatoes (the soil is all wrong, among other things). The variety grown has been chosen due to its uniform cold, they're nearly tasteless. Moreover, they're refrigerated on their drive up North (hard to avoid in the winter) which destroys even more of their flavor. that, and until recently they were grown with slave labor.
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Where did I say the Romans had tomatoes in my post?
You referred to Roman cuisine as the predecessor of Italian cuisine (rich in tomatoes) in a thread that had drifted to tomatoes. Pretty strong implication.
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You referred to Roman cuisine as the predecessor of Italian cuisine in a thread that had drifted to tomatoes. Pretty strong implication.
You're projecting again. I said nothing about tomatoes. In fact, I implied the opposite, as I indicated that most Americans think Pasta, and Pizza which usually have tomato sauce. I said that was an untrue characterization. I think I knew what I meant, or are you a mind reader too?
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It's just not true that all canned tomatoes have no flavor, or even "wrecked" flavor. I mean, it could be true. But since quality canned tomatoes are used world-wide, including in the sauces of some of the best pizza places known, it's obviously not true.
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Most supermarket tomatoes you get in the winter are grown in Florida, which is a horrid place to grow tomatoes (the soil is all wrong, among other things). The variety grown has been chosen due to its uniform cold, they're nearly tasteless. Moreover, they're refrigerated on their drive up North (hard to avoid in the winter) which destroys even more of their flavor.
Guess you know what the rest of us like better than we do. ::)
that, and until recently they were grown with slave labor.
::)
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It's just not true that all canned tomatoes have no flavor, or even "wrecked" flavor. I mean, it could be true. But since quality canned tomatoes are used world-wide, including in the sauces of some of the best pizza places known, it's obviously not true.
I suspect you would quickly realize the difference had you a sauce freshly made from fresh tomatoes.
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My grandfather would never ever eat a canned tomato.
He was in France during WW1, and they ate canned tomatoes for every meal. After he came home he never touched them again for the rest of his life.
One of my grandfathers would never eat spaghetti. He was Austrian and had spent time as a POW of the Italians in WWI.
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I have a local farmer where I buy as much of my produce as I can. He has chickens, so I get brown eggs. But he also usually has a selection of vegetables, and fruit in the summer and fall. I get my tomatoes there as they actually have taste. The best tomatoes I get, come from my neighbor who grows them. They taste like real tomatoes. Totally different from the grocery store. I have no idea what they sell.
I built my wife 400sf of vegetable garden beds. About half of that is tomatoes of different varieties, including heirloom tomatoes. She cans, and last year canned 144 large jars of tomatoes. So if the zombie apocalypse comes, you’re all invited over for spaghetti.
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https://www.bonappetit.com/story/canned-tomatoes-are-better-than-fresh-ones
You've got to get good canned tomatoes. Whole, peeled, only salt as an added ingredient. You can use price as a guide at first, but you'll definitely want to make sure the price is born out in the flavor. San Marzano tomatoes are often very good. That site I posted a page or so back, varasanos pizza recipe, explores a number of types of canned tomatoes.
I'm a decent cook, but a terrible chef. I would struggle to imagine flavors and put them together in great, unique ways. But I have done some deep dives on certain dishes that I love, and I built recipes using combinations of others.
I make a good paella on my 18-inch paella pan on my Weber grill, for example.
Best paella I’ve had was at the Colombia restaurant in St. Armand’s circle in Sarasota. Yum.
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My grandfather would never ever eat a canned tomato.
He was in France during WW1, and they ate canned tomatoes for every meal. After he came home he never touched them again for the rest of his life.
My dad was the same with Brussel sprouts. The English grew them for these bases before the invasion, and he couldn’t even look at them after the war.
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Love Paella, Bouillabaisse, Cioppino, etc.
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It's just not true that all canned tomatoes have no flavor, or even "wrecked" flavor. I mean, it could be true. But since quality canned tomatoes are used world-wide, including in the sauces of some of the best pizza places known, it's obviously not true.
As you mentioned above, San Marzano is my wife’s brand of choice by far.
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I suspect you would quickly realize the difference had you a sauce freshly made from fresh tomatoes.
I suspect you might be surprised to learn otherwise. Many of the best pizza places in the country, and I believe in the world, are using canned tomatoes. Fresh tomatoes have, obviously, a lovely flavor if they are good and in season. But they are perhaps not what the pallet expects on a pizza. Another challenge - fresh tomatoes out of season can be truly underwhelming, whereas good canned tomatoes are canned during season.
On Jeff Varasano's page, he says this -
Using Fresh Tomato
An alternative to canned tomatoes is fresh tomatoes. Even the best cans have a tinny odor, so you'd think that nothing could top fresh tomatoes. But using 100% fresh tomatoes is not necessarily the best thing. If you prepare fresh tomatoes and taste it raw, compared to canned, the fresh will win. But somehow, on the pizza, the canned will win. Partly it's that the fresh tomato taste is simply different than we are all used to and so it never tastes like your favorite pizza place. I've probably not experimented enough to say for sure.
He does go on to suggest a procedure for using fresh tomatoes, and suggest Ugly Ripes as a commercial possibility for fresh tomatoes.
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I built my wife 400sf of vegetable garden beds. About half of that is tomatoes of different varieties, including heirloom tomatoes. She cans, and last year canned 144 large jars of tomatoes. So if the zombie apocalypse comes, you’re all invited over for spaghetti.
Oh man. Lemme buy some jars and try them for pizza sauce. :)
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Best paella I’ve had was at the Colombia restaurant in St. Armand’s circle in Sarasota. Yum.
Funny you mention that. Before my professional career I was a server at the Columbia Restaurant in Sand Key and in Ybor City. That's what put me onto paella, actually. And it is really good. They do make some concessions vs. a true, traditional paella, in order to serve it in a timely manner in a commercial venue. When I make it it's definitely a process, done in a bunch of stages - meat, vegetables, sofrito, etc.
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Funny you mention that. Before my professional career I was a server at the Columbia Restaurant in Sand Key and in Ybor City. That's what put me onto paella, actually. And it is really good. They do make some concessions vs. a true, traditional paella, in order to serve it in a timely manner in a commercial venue. When I make it it's definitely a process, done in a bunch of stages - meat, vegetables, sofrito, etc.
We bought a Columbia restaurant cookbook when we were down there last. She makes their 1905 salad frequently. I’ll have to check out their paella recipe.
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One of my grandfathers would never eat spaghetti. He was Austrian and had spent time as a POW of the Italians in WWI.
My Dad was a gunnery sergeant in Europe in World War 2. He would not touch hash or any dish resembling it.
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A friend of mine's Dad was in the Army during Korea, and he would not go to any type of buffet where you had to stand in line to get food.
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I’ve evolved to using to excellent quality tomato paste when I want a deep tomato flavor.
Honestly, the easiest pizza sauce is just excellent tomato paste mixed with a little red wine and used sparingly. I even freeze small portions of tomato paste on Silpat liners on cookie sheets, then toss the portions in a Ziplock bag to use whenever the longing for deep tomato flavor strikes.
San Marzano is widely recognized as a superior canned tomato brand, but can be hard to find.
Wish Florida wasn’t so far from Washington State. I’d love to have a boozy Italian dinner and conversation with the asechrest clan. :)
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A friend of mine's Dad was in the Army during Korea, and he would not go to any type of buffet where you had to stand in line to get food.
I'm that way and I've never even been in a war. And buffets where there is no line, just people jumping in front of you everywhere. Kill me now, I hate people.
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We bought a Columbia restaurant cookbook when we were down there last. She makes their 1905 salad frequently. I’ll have to check out their paella recipe.
Hah, so cool. I've got a couple of them. The 1905 is KILLER. You bring that thing to a pot luck office lunch and they'll ask for it again the next year, and next, and next.
I can't recall if they have the paella recipe in the book. I built my recipe from research online, starting with what was in a traditional paella and learning about some of the keys to cooking it the right way. As I recall, ultra-traditional, old-school paella used wild game meat like rabbit and was cooked over an open wood fire. Some of the flavor keys are saffron (obviously), good stock (ideally homemade chicken stock, though I never plan in advance enough to make it from scratch), a from-scratch soffrito, and the proper rice cooked until the socarrat, or brown crust, forms on the bottom. Supposedly you can hear the crackling of the rice as the crust is forming. I typically poke a fork to the bottom and wiggle gently to see if it "grabs" a bit. But I'm not great at it. The heat has to be right for it, and since I'm cooking on a coal/wood grill and it's at the end of the cook, regulating the heat can be a challenge. I've burned the rice slightly a time or two. And most of the other times I haven't quite cooked it long enough. Got it right a couple times, though.
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I’ve evolved to using to excellent quality tomato paste when I want a deep tomato flavor.
Honestly, the easiest pizza sauce is just excellent tomato paste mixed with a little red wine and used sparingly. I even freeze small portions of tomato paste on Silpat liners on cookie sheets, then toss the portions in a Ziplock bag to use whenever the longing for deep tomato flavor strikes.
San Marzano is widely recognized as a superior canned tomato brand, but can be hard to find.
Wish Florida wasn’t so far from Washington State. I’d love to have a boozy Italian dinner and conversation with the asechrest clan. :)
Now that'd be fun!
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I'm that way and I've never even been in a war. And buffets where there is no line, just people jumping in front of you everywhere. Kill me now, I hate people.
People are the most interesting and infuriating objects on the planet.
I’m going to make that 1905 Salad for Christmas dinner. Without people, it wouldn’t exist.
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Now that'd be fun!
Our topic could be Malcolm Muggeridge’s epic essay, “The Great Liberal Death Wish.” :)
Previous civilizations have been overthrown from without by the incursion of barbarian hordes; ours has dreamed up its own dissolution in the minds of own intellectual elite. It has carefully nurtured its own barbarians—all reared on the best Dr. Spock lines, sent to progressive schools and colleges, fitted with contraceptives or fed birth pills at puberty; mixing D.H. Lawrence with their Coca-Cola, and imbibing the headier stuff (Marcuse, Chairman Mao, Malcolm X) in evening libations of hot chocolate. Not Bolshevism, which Stalin liquidated along with all the old Bolsheviks; not Nazism, which perished along with Hitler in his Berlin bunker; not Fascism, which was left hanging upside down, along with Mussolini and his mistress, from a lamp-post—none of these, history will record, was responsible for bringing down the darkness on our civilization, but liberalism. A solvent rather than a precipitate, a sedative rather than a stimulant, a slough rather than a precipice; blurring the edges of truth, the definition of virtue, the shape of beauty; a cracked bell, a mist, a death wish.
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I’ve evolved to using to excellent quality tomato paste when I want a deep tomato flavor.
Honestly, the easiest pizza sauce is just excellent tomato paste mixed with a little red wine and used sparingly. I even freeze small portions of tomato paste on Silpat liners on cookie sheets, then toss the portions in a Ziplock bag to use whenever the longing for deep tomato flavor strikes.
If that's what you like. Sounds bland and boring to yours truly.
San Marzano is widely recognized as a superior canned tomato brand, but can be hard to find.
This is too funny. This is the type of tomato I use for just about everything. Not difficult to find at all. Again, pales against fresh heirloom tomatoes, but we get what we can get. Tomato paste is for thickening sauces. I don't do what's easy, I do what tastes good.
Don't know what you guys have against cornstarch. Hasn't any flavor at all, just thickens things. I use it in ice cream.
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Sometimes with cooking less is more, especially with spices, and ingredients. However, I do enjoy complexity in foods.
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Sometimes with cooking less is more, especially with spices, and ingredients. However, I do enjoy complexity in foods.
Sometimes it is. But if less means no onion or garlic, then it isn't more, its less.
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Problem with desserts is if they aren't light and sweet they just aren't dessert.
I like a slice of pepperoni pizza for desert!
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Sometimes it is. But if less means no onion or garlic, then it isn't more, its less.
On Pizza or Ice Cream?
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On Pizza or Ice Cream?
Pizza silly. Both are savory flavors, though onions can be made sweet. Still wouldn’t put them in a dessert though. My pizzas only get the thinnest covering of sauce, to get the correct texture. Thus I do try to turn the sauce up to 11. I think I succeed. A few months back I had exhausted my supply of my pizza sauce and used a commercially prepared one. Everyone including me thought the pizza was bland and tasteless.