Post by: Dweyant on December 12, 2018, 01:03:22 PM
http://www.realclearlife.com/politics/what-donald-trumps-trade-war-with-china-is-really-about/?fbclid=IwAR16VKgpSV2Qi6uWVSHlouJdpyHTYYZ_zFpzDBgV2SmmhQLMbmCJH14FnSY
-Dan
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 12, 2018, 04:15:58 PM
Just hope Trump has time to make sure these policies become firm.
Post by: nddons on December 12, 2018, 04:31:34 PM
It’s nice to know China is being addressed as the formidable entity it is. I couldn’t help but picture a Dem presidential candidate debating Trump on all those points and trying to point out how going back to the Screw America and Capitulate on Everything approach would be better.Substitute “Wisconsin” for “America” and that’s what happened on Election Day. I guess record full employment and record economic successes was not enough for people who just wanted “change” in this purpose state.
Just hope Trump has time to make sure these policies become firm.
We cannot let our guard down. What happened yesterday means nothing to voters. Smh.
Post by: Anthony on December 12, 2018, 04:33:07 PM
Post by: Steingar on December 13, 2018, 06:34:09 AM
Xi Jinping is ruler for life, which means the only way he's going to stop being ruler is if he dies. If he appears weak those who would like to supplant him are going to try and arrange just that, and he knows it. One needs to look no farther than Libya to see the fate of dictators who loose control of their fates, and no farther than Syria to see the lengths dictators will go to to keep from losing control. I think these sorts of autocrats needs to handled carefully, something for which a Secretary of State and fully functioning Department of State can be a big help. A pity Trump savaged the latter.
Post by: Lucifer on December 13, 2018, 06:40:08 AM
The US has honest to goodness gosh grievances against the Chinese that were not addressed by the Short Fingered Vulgarian's Processor. I do think the Mango Mussolini is going about it all wrong, though. I think the thing to do with the Chinese was to use back channels and fairly private communications to get the point across. His brazen diplomacy by Twitter has caused Xi Jinping to loose face, and the Chinese are all about face. He can't negotiate, he'll loose that much more face. He has little choice but to retaliate, or he'll appear weak. But in retaliating he appears strong, and it gets good internal consumption, making him that much more popular.
Xi Jinping is ruler for life, which means the only way he's going to stop being ruler is if he dies. If he appears weak those who would like to supplant him are going to try and arrange just that, and he knows it. One needs to look no farther than Libya to see the fate of dictators who loose control of their fates, and no farther than Syria to see the lengths dictators will go to to keep from losing control. I think these sorts of autocrats needs to handled carefully, something for which a Secretary of State and fully functioning Department of State can be a big help. A pity Trump savaged the latter.
What an inane diatribe.
Post by: Number7 on December 13, 2018, 06:52:59 AM
Go Back On Your MEDS
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 13, 2018, 08:23:15 AM
The US has honest to goodness gosh grievances against the Chinese that were not addressed by the Short Fingered Vulgarian's Processor. I do think the Mango Mussolini is going about it all wrong, though. I think the thing to do with the Chinese was to use back channels and fairly private communications to get the point across. His brazen diplomacy by Twitter has caused Xi Jinping to loose face, and the Chinese are all about face. He can't negotiate, he'll loose that much more face. He has little choice but to retaliate, or he'll appear weak. But in retaliating he appears strong, and it gets good internal consumption, making him that much more popular.Well, sir, look around the world. The movement is toward ripping the curtain away from self serving elitist government and toward benefiting the citizenry, and toward transparency. We know the Chinese are extremely aware of what is happening in the world. The Chinese have a long, ancient, even, tradition of revolting against leaders who suck the life out of the citizenry.
Xi Jinping is ruler for life, which means the only way he's going to stop being ruler is if he dies. If he appears weak those who would like to supplant him are going to try and arrange just that, and he knows it. One needs to look no farther than Libya to see the fate of dictators who loose control of their fates, and no farther than Syria to see the lengths dictators will go to to keep from losing control. I think these sorts of autocrats needs to handled carefully, something for which a Secretary of State and fully functioning Department of State can be a big help. A pity Trump savaged the latter.
Even the Clinton Foundation has whistleblowers now willing to risk life and limb to testify about its graft and pay for play sliminess.
Get on board. Sounds like you’d rather subside back into kowtowing to the king. Not gonna happen.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/12/the-return-of-nationalism.html
Post by: nddons on December 13, 2018, 08:37:31 AM
The US has honest to goodness gosh grievances against the Chinese that were not addressed by the Short Fingered Vulgarian's Processor. I do think the Mango Mussolini is going about it all wrong, though. I think the thing to do with the Chinese was to use back channels and fairly private communications to get the point across. His brazen diplomacy by Twitter has caused Xi Jinping to loose face, and the Chinese are all about face. He can't negotiate, he'll loose that much more face. He has little choice but to retaliate, or he'll appear weak. But in retaliating he appears strong, and it gets good internal consumption, making him that much more popular.I’ve always wondered why America is supposed to give two shits whether or not a communist “leader” loses face, when you and your fellow socialists live for the day when you can get Trump and other Republicans to lose face. You could see the attempted set up with Chuck and Nancy in the Oval Office. They failed miserably, because they didn’t expect Trump to take responsibility for a partial government shutdown. But it is game on, 24/7, with the democrats.
Xi Jinping is ruler for life, which means the only way he's going to stop being ruler is if he dies. If he appears weak those who would like to supplant him are going to try and arrange just that, and he knows it. One needs to look no farther than Libya to see the fate of dictators who loose control of their fates, and no farther than Syria to see the lengths dictators will go to to keep from losing control. I think these sorts of autocrats needs to handled carefully, something for which a Secretary of State and fully functioning Department of State can be a big help. A pity Trump savaged the latter.
Fuck the shit horn dictators. Lose face, kill yourself, I couldn’t give two shits.
I’m SO tired of the US being told we must conform to some foreign cultural standards, when the same is not offered to us.
I’m glad Trump doesn’t give a shit either. He knows EXACTLY how to negotiate.
Post by: asechrest on December 13, 2018, 09:18:38 AM
Loose != Lose
Post by: nddons on December 13, 2018, 09:41:06 AM
Loose != LoseLeave it to the CPA to spell properly.
Post by: Steingar on December 13, 2018, 10:25:00 AM
I’ve always wondered why America is supposed to give two shits whether or not a communist “leader” loses face,Those who understand their adversaries are more likely to win in the end.
Post by: Lucifer on December 13, 2018, 10:33:51 AM
Those who understand their adversaries are more likely to win in the end.
That's not what he was referring too.
Post by: Number7 on December 13, 2018, 11:06:51 AM
Those who understand their adversaries are more likely to win in the end.
The democrat (communist) way is to always see that the USA loses.
Doesn’t matter if it’s trade, immigration, jobs, energy. Democrats (communists) like you always side against American interests.
That’s why you democrats (communists) love obama so much. He always placed US interestes at the back of the bus.
Post by: Little Joe on December 13, 2018, 11:15:04 AM
Loose != LoseI think the good professor continues to misuse that word because it pops up on EVERY pet peeve list regarding misspelling that I have ever seen. I think he does it on purpose because anyone that is as smart as he thinks he is would learn after the first few times he is corrected. But he has misused that word every time he has used it for as long as I can remember.
Post by: asechrest on December 13, 2018, 12:25:30 PM
I think the good professor continues to misuse that word because it pops up on EVERY pet peeve list regarding misspelling that I have ever seen. I think he does it on purpose because anyone that is as smart as he thinks he is would learn after the first few times he is corrected. But he has misused that word every time he has used it for as long as I can remember.
It makes me want to loose it!
Post by: Rush on December 13, 2018, 12:33:11 PM
Where I disagree with Michael is I don't think we should worry about Xi being overthrown by internal conspiracy. He's already executed people who were supposed threats to him and has now declared himself lifelong dictator. So the fear is he will retaliate if he feels we forced him to look weak? The exact wrong thing in that case is for us to show fear. The exact opposite is what's needed: if his face cracks and he appears a bit weak, that's the time to bring it on even more aggressively. China's screwed up culture of superficial appearance and underhanded cheating should no longer be tolerated if they want to participate in our markets.
Post by: Anthony on December 13, 2018, 01:05:57 PM
China's screwed up culture of superficial appearance and underhanded cheating should no longer be tolerated if they want to participate in our markets.
For me that is the bottom line. If they want to participate in markets outside China then adopt the customs of those markets. One of which is fulfilling your promises. When companies, or people don't fulfill their promises I stop doing business with them. We as a country should do the same, but the bedwetting Democrats and their progressive useful idiots just cower at the mention of Trade War! The Chinese need us more than we need them.
Post by: Lucifer on December 13, 2018, 01:21:42 PM
The Chinese need us more than we need them.
This.
Post by: Steingar on December 13, 2018, 02:20:07 PM
The good professor is one of the world's poorest proofreaders, a truly vexing problem for one who often writes for a living. That said, it's been my experience that those who focus on minutiae have little original thought of their own to offer.
Post by: Number7 on December 13, 2018, 02:28:59 PM
Post by: Lucifer on December 13, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
The problem is if we act unilaterally in a dramatic fashion China can make up the difference by pursuing opportunities elsewhere, which they are assiduously doing. If they are successful we lose our one and only chance at modifying their behavior to match international norms. Were we to establish a unified front with other trading powers it might have a stronger effect, and we would then be able to confront the Chinese leader more boldly.
Once again, let's use some actual facts rather than CNN talking points. Below is a list of China's exports. As you can see, the US is the largest importer of Chinese goods. The next largest? Hong Kong, which is $151 billion less than the US. And everyone else drops down the list very fast.
China needs the US to buy their stuff. A 19% reduction in their exports would crater their economy. And those other countries? Going to be very difficult, if not impossible to shift their exports over to them. Think about it this way, if they could have already increased market share in those other countries, it would have happened already.
China is a nasty trading partner. Most other countries have realized this fact, hence see the chart below.
United States: US$430.3 billion (19% of total Chinese exports)
Hong Kong: $279.2 billion (12.3%)
Japan: $137.3 billion (6.1%)
South Korea: $102.7 billion (4.5%)
Vietnam: $71.6 billion (3.2%)
Germany: $71.1 billion (3.1%)
India: $68 billion (3%)
Netherlands: $67.1 billion (3%)
United Kingdom: $56.7 billion (2.5%)
Singapore: $45 billion (2%)
Taiwan: $44 billion (1.9%)
Russia: $42.8 billion (1.9%)
Malaysia: $41.7 billion (1.8%)
Australia: $41.4 billion (1.8%)
Thailand: $38.5 billion (1.7%)
Trump has instead aggravated most of the leaders of the Western economic powers, further isolating the US.
President Trump has stood up for the United States. He has put other countries on notice we will not be taken advantage of. And he has offered to come to the table and negotiate trade with them that is fair for all parties.
Why should the US be the door mat for the rest of the world? More importantly, why do you hate this country so bad?
The good professor is one of the world's poorest proofreaders, a truly vexing problem for one who often writes for a living. That said, it's been my experience that those who focus on minutiae have little original thought of their own to offer.
Said by a man who depends on CNN/MSNBC/NYT/WashPo talking points.
It's a rarity to see you use critical thought.
Post by: Mase on December 13, 2018, 03:16:51 PM
Post by: Lucifer on December 13, 2018, 03:26:27 PM
Huh? Hong Kong IS China...
Not really. It is, and it isn't.
Hong Kong is an autonomous territory, known as a Chinese special administrative region. The government of Hong Kong is separate from that of mainland China. Hong Kong also has it's own separate economy, and it's own separate currency.
People from the main land cannot enter Hong Kong without special authorization, there is a border (heavily guarded).
The people of Hong Kong typically have english first names and chinese last names. And english is fluent through out Hong Kong.
Post by: Rush on December 13, 2018, 05:18:56 PM
The problem is if we act unilaterally in a dramatic fashion China can make up the difference by pursuing opportunities elsewhere, which they are assiduously doing. If they are successful we lose our one and only chance at modifying their behavior to match international norms. Were we to establish a unified front with other trading powers it might have a stronger effect, and we would then be able to confront the Chinese leader more boldly. Trump has instead aggravated most of the leaders of the Western economic powers, further isolating the US.
The good professor is one of the world's poorest proofreaders, a truly vexing problem for one who often writes for a living. That said, it's been my experience that those who focus on minutiae have little original thought of their own to offer.
I'm not following the news enough to know what other leaders are thinking about Trump and I don't think I'd trust the news if I did. Are they really aggravated, or do they too have the same complaints about China? For decades the world has had to suffer Made in China syndrome, we cannot be the only country sick to death of Chinese cheating on quality, stealing intellectual property, promising one thing delivering another, etc. I would think some of those other countries would be secretly cheering Trump's testicular fortitude on this issue. But what do I know.
Post by: Anthony on December 13, 2018, 05:33:26 PM
What Trump is doing with foreign countries around trade is called COGNITIVE DISSONANCE. We have been treated unfairly by many of our allies and some of our enemies of which China is one. We tolerate China, but have often embraced our European allies yet BOTH take advantage of us with regards to trade, and with Europe both trade, and defense.
Trump is purposely using cognitive dissonance to level the playing field, and create a new paradigm for trade relations. Of course our trade partners will be PISSED that the old gravy train may be coming to an end. That's OK. Trump wants that. They will complain, threaten, whine, and try to get the American Media, and hence Public Opinion to swing against Trump so he will back off. In effect using liberals against their own country.
Eventually those same whining trade partners will come back with better terms as they know they need us more than we need them. Trump is using our LEVERAGE and negotiating from strength. If we can hold out, our trade situation will improve as will our domestic business climate, and economy.