PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Little Joe on March 08, 2019, 11:47:21 AM

Title: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 08, 2019, 11:47:21 AM
With the Democrat party showing just how anti-Semitic they really are, will they continue to enjoy such strong support from Jewish Americans?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 08, 2019, 12:00:31 PM
Yes.  They are culturally, and historically BOLSHEVIKS.  Combined with their almost 100% Metro, Urbanites they will always vote Democrat.

Oh, and throw in a smattering of self loathing to complete the task.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on March 08, 2019, 12:04:52 PM
Yes, they are quite different from the Jews in Israel.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 08, 2019, 07:07:55 PM
You guys know nothing, even though you think in your own minds that you are experts in everything. I’ll bet I know more MOT than the rest of you combined, and just about all of them vote GOP.  Nice try at some vieled antisemitism while you’re at it.  Nice to see the members of this little echo chamber show their true colors.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 08, 2019, 07:59:17 PM
You guys know nothing, even though you think in your own minds that you are experts in everything. I’ll bet I know more MOT than the rest of you combined, and just about all of them vote GOP.  Nice try at some vieled antisemitism while you’re at it.  Nice to see the members of this little echo chamber show their true colors.
Huh?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 08, 2019, 08:12:43 PM
Huh?

He is a fucking idiot, blabbering about his make believe intelligence and showing how ignorant he is instead.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on March 08, 2019, 08:48:05 PM
You guys know nothing, even though you think in your own minds that you are experts in everything. I’ll bet I know more MOT than the rest of you combined, and just about all of them vote GOP.  Nice try at some vieled antisemitism while you’re at it.  Nice to see the members of this little echo chamber show their true colors.

BULLSHIT

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-voting-record-in-u-s-presidential-elections
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 09, 2019, 06:40:48 AM
You guys know nothing, even though you think in your own minds that you are experts in everything. I’ll bet I know more MOT than the rest of you combined, and just about all of them vote GOP.  Nice try at some vieled antisemitism while you’re at it.  Nice to see the members of this little echo chamber show their true colors.

What has been said that was untrue?  American Jews are mostly from Russia, Eastern Europe, and Western Europe.  Many brought a Communist mentality with them, and as they settled and stayed in Metro areas are vastly URBANITES.  We know Metro areas are all DEMOCRAT and Liberal/Progressive.  I guarantee almost all of your Jewish friends and relatives vote Democrat, and hate Trump and the GOP.

What is untrue, or anti Semitic about that?  Now we see your beloved Democrat Party is blatantly ANTI SEMITIC to the point where they can't even refute a Far Left Muslim Jew hater.  How do you reconcile that?  Yes, I realize many Jews are self loathing, but some are not.  You pray to ODIN rather than the God of the Jews, no?  Have you rejected your heritage as well as your religion?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 09, 2019, 08:40:03 AM
The Communist Parrty (they are no more democratic than the guy who claims he is Michelle Obama is a woman) is so proud of their rising communist stars. What they have in common with communism is as clear as can be.

"Every government having regard to good morals ought to repress the Jews," opined Pierre Leroux, the leftist credited with coining the term 'Socialism'. "When we speak of Jews, we mean the Jewish spirit, the spirit of profit, of lucre, of gain, the spirit of commerce."

"What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money," Karl Marx ranted.

American socialism traces its ideological ancestry to Charles Fourier, a French socialist bigot who declared that Jews were the embodiment of capitalism, “parasites, merchants, usurers”, and the "incarnation of commerce: parasitical, deceitful, traitorous and unproductive".

Even the term ‘anti-Semite’ was popularized by Wilhelm Marr, the socialist founder of the League of Antisemites. The inventor of anti-Semitism’s arguments were the same ones put forward by Marx, Fourier, H.G. Wells, Lenin and countless other socialists. The Jews were all about the ‘Benjamins’. They started wars. They were disloyal and manipulated society. They were a dangerous foreign element.

These are the same tropes that were put forward by Rep. Ilhan Omar and defended by her socialist allies in the House Progressive Caucus and across the media. Anti-Semitism is one of the meeting points between socialists and Islamists. The more anti-Semitism she spews, the more Rep. Omar unites the identity politics caucus of minority group racial nationalists and Islamists, with the traditional Left.


https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/273078/democrats-go-socialist-they-go-anti-semitic-daniel-greenfield

Liberalism is a sickness and whore's errand. There is no excuse for the sickness, or the hypocrisy except to see it for what it is.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 09, 2019, 10:19:09 AM
He is a fucking idiot, blabbering about his make believe intelligence and showing how ignorant he is instead.

You know how to make Number 7’s eyes light up?






















Shine a flashlight in his ear.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 09, 2019, 11:48:44 AM
There is never any doubt that mikey is fucking idio.

He is so anxious to remind us all in case anyone missed it.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 09, 2019, 05:25:42 PM
There is never any doubt that mikey is fucking idio.

He is so anxious to remind us all in case anyone missed it.

What goes vrooom, screech, vroom, screech, vrooom screech, vrooom screech, vrooom screech?














Number 7 at a flashing red light.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 09, 2019, 06:31:29 PM
I'm sure mikey is too dumb to realize he's using jokes that he got from a 12 year old.

I guess that makes sense. He has the intellectual depth of a ten year old, spoiled brat.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 09, 2019, 07:22:13 PM
I'm sure mikey is too dumb to realize he's using jokes that he got from a 12 year old.

I guess that makes sense. He has the intellectual depth of a ten year old, spoiled brat.

What’s the difference between Number 7 and a jellyfish?
One is a spineless poisonous blob.






















The other is a form of undersea life.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on March 12, 2019, 06:56:05 AM
Okay you guys, keep your minds on the article not the pictures!!!

“Jexodus” is a thing.

https://www.breitbart.com/radio/2019/03/06/model-elizabeth-pipko-jexodus-helps-jewish-millennials-leave-the-antisemitic-left/
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 12, 2019, 07:07:50 AM
Okay you guys, keep your minds on the article not the pictures!!!

“Jexodus” is a thing.

https://www.breitbart.com/radio/2019/03/06/model-elizabeth-pipko-jexodus-helps-jewish-millennials-leave-the-antisemitic-left/
I couldn’t find the article. I couldn’t get past the pictures.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on March 12, 2019, 07:13:13 AM
I couldn’t find the article. I couldn’t get past the pictures.

Here, then ...

https://jexodus.org
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 12, 2019, 01:38:01 PM
Here, then ...

https://jexodus.org

I’ve always been baffled why Jews are Democrat. Is it simply because they associate “the right” with Nazis?  The Nazis were socialists! But the Nazis were opposed to Russian style communism so is it a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Or is it because they live in big cities and are just surrounded by urban culture which tends to be blue? Or do they mistakenly think anti-semitism is a conservative value? I guess the media has spread so many lies so long anyone who lives in a city and watches mainstream media thinks conservatives and Republicans are all stereotypical racist, sexist, xenophobic, white supremacist, anti-Semite etc etc etc.

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 12, 2019, 03:27:26 PM
Jews are commanded by Hashem to look after those less fortunate than themselves. Many see this as an intrinsic function of government. Obviously you all disagree, which is your right.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 12, 2019, 03:41:39 PM
Jews are commanded by Hashem to look after those less fortunate than themselves. Many see this as an intrinsic function of government. Obviously you all disagree, which is your right.
To be specific, does Hashem command that the government look after the less fortunate, or does it command the "believers" to adopt this philosophy?  I personally spend a great deal of time and money helping the less fortunate (granted, most of them are my relatives, but many are personal acquaintances), but I don't believe that is the job of the government.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 12, 2019, 03:53:09 PM
Jews are commanded by Hashem to look after those less fortunate than themselves. Many see this as an intrinsic function of government. Obviously you all disagree, which is your right.

Ah.  I see it as private charity through churches (mosques, synagogues or whatever) and personal relationships. I see government efforts to take care of the less fortunate as often counter productive, backfiring, and prone to corruption. Not always but often. The same can be said for churches too of course.


Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 12, 2019, 05:56:55 PM
Jews are commanded by Hashem to look after those less fortunate than themselves. Many see this as an intrinsic function of government. Obviously you all disagree, which is your right.

So kind of you to 'allow' others to think for themselves...

It'll be all over the communist news networks how this movement is all racist and bigoted. Mikey will be repeating the DNC mantra of it as soon as he gets his marching orders.

I think this paragraph clearly speaks the truth - so clearly that progressives (communists) simply trot out all their stupid claims to avoid thinking for themselves about it.

We are proud Jewish Millennials tired of living in bondage to leftist politics. We reject the hypocrisy, anti-Americanism, and anti-Semitism of the rising far-left. Progressives, Democrats, and far too many old-school Jewish organizations take our support for granted. After all, we’re Jewish, and Jews vote for Democrats.

Until today.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 13, 2019, 05:09:25 AM
Most Jews are urbanites, and thus have urbanite, collectivist values.  Also, many have heritage in the Bolshevik, Communist mindset.  They view liberalism, and the progressive thought as enlightened and evolved, and look to government to cure all ills by forced confiscation of wealth, and income. 

The irony is that they are OK with giving the ultimate authority over their lives to GOVERNMENT.  Where the authority of governments over history has been very, very abusive to Jews.  The Third Reich, the USSR, Egypt, the Arab states and others have been horrible repressive to Jews up to and including mass genocide. 

Democrats want more and more of their money, more dependency on government and more control over their lives.  See where this is going?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 13, 2019, 05:27:24 AM
I've said it before.......

 Those in society that embrace and push communism, such as academics, fail to realize that once the communist take over, the first people to go are.......the academics.

 Communism depends heavily on the "useful idiots" to achieve their goals.  And there are mass graves worldwide that are filled with those "useful idiots" once they are no longer useful.

 History books are the enemy of communism, thus is why the radicals want to erase history where ever they attempt a takeover.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 13, 2019, 06:17:03 AM
In olden times religion was the primary source of charity, and government kept its hands out of it.  But it should be remembered that in previous times Church and State were intrinsically intertwined, and both were more or less compulsory.  Church had far greater sway on one's day to day life, and had the resources to serve as a societal safety net.

I doubt strongly that houses of worship in modern America have either the resources or breadth to exclusively serve that role.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: jb1842 on March 13, 2019, 06:36:29 AM
In olden times religion was the primary source of charity, and government kept its hands out of it.  But it should be remembered that in previous times Church and State were intrinsically intertwined, and both were more or less compulsory.  Church had far greater sway on one's day to day life, and had the resources to serve as a societal safety net.

I doubt strongly that houses of worship in modern America have either the resources or breadth to exclusively serve that role.

Just google how many churches have private jets or have pastors rolling around in large SUVs. Enough money to serve all of America's charitable needs? Probably not. But plenty of money to make an impact in their local communities. Hell, the Mormons and Catholic organizations are worth billions.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 13, 2019, 07:36:24 AM
Catholic Charities alone makes a huge impact.  Add other religions, and orgs like United Way, and The Salvation Army.  Check out this list.  Government needs to get out of the Social Engineering business.

https://www.forbes.com/top-charities/list/
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 13, 2019, 08:36:42 AM
Just google how many churches have private jets or have pastors rolling around in large SUVs. Enough money to serve all of America's charitable needs? Probably not. But plenty of money to make an impact in their local communities. Hell, the Mormons and Catholic organizations are worth billions.

I would not in any way disagree.  However, as far as I can tell Medicaid spending in 2017 was half a trillion while Medicare spending was over a trillion.  I strongly doubt that houses of worship have that level of heft, even without the luxury accouterments.  Do keep in mind that when religious orders were footing the bill, a hospital was a big building where people went to die.  There was little machinery and even less medical ability, a far cry from the establishments we have now.  But all that ability comes at a steep monetary price for equipment and personnel trained to use it.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 13, 2019, 09:17:04 AM
In olden times religion was the primary source of charity, and government kept its hands out of it.  But it should be remembered that in previous times Church and State were intrinsically intertwined, and both were more or less compulsory.  Church had far greater sway on one's day to day life, and had the resources to serve as a societal safety net.

I doubt strongly that houses of worship in modern America have either the resources or breadth to exclusively serve that role.

That's a valid point.  The United States was a unique experiment with capitalism and no authoritative overlord, either church or government. The result was incredible wealth and progress.  There was still a gap between those with the most and those with the least, but those with the least still benefited greatly over those with the least in any previous form of state. (Not counting slaves.)

Human nature being what it is, there are always problems with any group organization, including states and nations. All organizations consist of those with more power and wealth, and those with less.  In free market capitalism, there is more free movement of individuals up and down this hierarchy.

Today, you are correct in that people are not invested in religion nearly as much as before. Maybe in the past when church was powerful, it was as compulsory as government is today. Even now within specific religions there can be social pressure to tithe.

So you are answering my question, why the Jews seem to believe in leftism (socialism, ie: government provided services) - do they have a history of their own government being one and the same with their religion? Moses and the tribe leadership, let's say?  Today they seem to have transferred the responsibility once held by their own tribal leadership, to whatever secular government they find themselves under, to be responsible for taking care of the disenfranchised?

Or maybe let me ask you this: The Democrats a generation ago, were not communists. They were not far left progressives. I can understand Jews being Democrats then, just like Catholics were. In a similar way, Catholics believe in taking care of the poor, and communal responsibility. They could support some government programs as a safety net. But in the past few decades the Democrat party has been taken over by Marxists - those who don't believe in Capitalism at all, but total government control of all resources.

I think I'm getting to the core of my confusion here. If you believe in free market capitalism basically, that it led to the wealth and progress of the U.S., but you just think government should take responsibility for providing programs for the disenfranchised, that is one thing. But if you follow what is suggested by the far left part of the Democrat party today, which is promoting a wholesale takeover of huge parts of the economy such as healthcare, energy production, and all of higher education, that's not a traditional Democrat. That's a communist. The only thing left is food production and I'm waiting any minute for AOC or the like to suggest that too if they haven't already.

And that is what I have trouble understanding why a Jew or a Catholic, or anyone really, could support.  So if you're a Democrat just because of legacy and the false idea the other side is "evil" that's one thing. But if you're a Democrat because you truly think Lenin and Stalin did better for their people than Jefferson and Adams, that baffles me.



Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 13, 2019, 09:32:03 AM
I would not in any way disagree.  However, as far as I can tell Medicaid spending in 2017 was half a trillion while Medicare spending was over a trillion.  I strongly doubt that houses of worship have that level of heft, even without the luxury accouterments.  Do keep in mind that when religious orders were footing the bill, a hospital was a big building where people went to die.  There was little machinery and even less medical ability, a far cry from the establishments we have now.  But all that ability comes at a steep monetary price for equipment and personnel trained to use it.

Very true and a huge problem.  Technology has advanced so far that we can do things medically never possible before. It's a mixed blessing. Someone with a birth defect or a disease later in life who would quickly die in the past, now can be kept alive and maybe even have a quality of life but at a huge cost, to them in pain and suffering, to their family, and to society, whether private insurance or government taxes. I'm not sure it's always the best thing for them or humanity as a whole. But I can't condone withholding care, no moral person could. In the case of very old ill people, it's often a terrible thing to keep them breathing long past the point they themselves wish to depart (a thing that is happening unfortunately, for the profit of nursing homes, doctors, hospitals, and fear of legal liability - ie: profit of lawyers.)

But one issue is why the high cost? The natural cycle for any technology is for the cost to come down drastically.  Why do prices stay so high in the U.S.?  What are all the factors going into keeping costs so high?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 13, 2019, 10:28:24 AM
But one issue is why the high cost? The natural cycle for any technology is for the cost to come down drastically.  Why do prices stay so high in the U.S.?  What are all the factors going into keeping costs so high?

I would argue that we have tons of structural inefficiency here that isn't found in nations with single payer healthcare or some other form of government socialization (which isn't what we have here.  We've private socialization via insurance, except of the elderly who get public socialization, i.e. Medicare).

I give one example, though I know its been repeated many, many times.  A pal had no health insurance, couldn't afford it.  She felt abdominal pain, she waited for it to go away.  Pain got worse, she did nothing.  Couldn't afford a hospital.  He kids found her on the floor unconscious. She got emergency surgery at the hospital and is now fine.  The hospital bill bankrupted them.  But how much less expensive would the problem have been to correct had it been treated early? 

Hospitals can't turn away patients, its illegal.  So they deal with it when it gets that bad.  A lot of, if not most of it would be fairly benign if treated promptly. 

I would also argue that our medical system has to support a lot of mouths that have nothing whatsoever to do with medicine, and many of those are very well paid.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 14, 2019, 07:35:16 AM
I've said it before.......

 Those in society that embrace and push communism, such as academics, fail to realize that once the communist take over, the first people to go are.......the academics.

 Communism depends heavily on the "useful idiots" to achieve their goals.  And there are mass graves worldwide that are filled with those "useful idiots" once they are no longer useful.

 History books are the enemy of communism, thus is why the radicals want to erase history where ever they attempt a takeover.

Honest question: why do folks here call the current Democratic Party "communist"?

Communism to me implies that most property, industry, agriculture, etc. are state-owned. The political system is single-party, and those who don't belong to the party are subject to persecution. Intellectuals are forced to conform to what is dictated by government, or otherwise driven into exile or "purged". Basically an iron-fisted totalitarian State. Such as the old USSR was and that we find today in places like China and North Korea.

I don't see even the current far left Dems pushing toward that at all. Someone said they want to turn the US into Norway. I think that's pretty accurate. It's European-style "democratic socialism". I agree that it would be a disaster for this country, but it isn't based on Marxism as far as I'm aware, and it's a long way from Soviet or Chinese style Communism. Scandinavian countries still have multiple political parties and capitalism thrives, albeit under a heavy regulatory burden.

Is all this just hyperbole, or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 14, 2019, 07:43:22 AM
Honest question: why do folks here call the current Democratic Party "communist"?

Communism to me implies that most property, industry, agriculture, etc. are state-owned. The political system is single-party, and those who don't belong to the party are subject to persecution. Intellectuals are forced to conform to what is dictated by government, or otherwise driven into exile or "purged". Basically an iron-fisted totalitarian State. Such as the old USSR was and that we find today in places like China and North Korea.

I don't see even the current far left Dems pushing toward that at all. Someone said they want to turn the US into Norway. I think that's pretty accurate. It's European-style "democratic socialism". I agree that it would be a disaster for this country, but it isn't based on Marxism as far as I'm aware, and it's a long way from Soviet or Chinese style Communism. Scandinavian countries still have multiple political parties and capitalism thrives, albeit under a heavy regulatory burden.

Is all this just hyperbole, or am I missing something?

The current group infiltrating and taking over the democrat party have strong ties to various communist organizations. 

 The communist organizations have cloaked themselves in various names over the years because of the negative connotations associated with communist.   “Enviromentalist”, “liberal” and “progressive” are a few. 

 Sorry, I don’t have the cliff notes version, this takes a bit of reading and research plus a healthy dose of history to understand.

 The current crop of Democrats don’t even begin to understand socialism in a country such as Norway.
If they did, they would be horrified knowing that the Norwegians take a hard line on immigration, and while the practice a form of socialism it has a lot of catches to it (no free lunch).
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 14, 2019, 07:48:26 AM
Communism to me implies that most property, industry, agriculture, etc. are state-owned. The political system is single-party, and those who don't belong to the party are subject to persecution. Intellectuals are forced to conform to what is dictated by government, or otherwise driven into exile or "purged". Basically an iron-fisted totalitarian State. Such as the old USSR was and that we find today in places like China and North Korea.
This sounds exactly like the current Democrat platform.  Any dissent within or outside the party is squashed in the media and by politicians.  Just try to stand up on any college campus and say "I am a conservative!"  You'll get spit on, beaten, and your career ruined.  Stand in the capital mall waiting for a bus wearing a MAGA hat and a crowd forms around you shouting you down and you're excoriated by the press.  You must not drive, eat meat, watch unapproved TV or movies, try to make something of yourself.

Yep, sounds pretty communist to me.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 14, 2019, 08:07:02 AM
Honest question: why do folks here call the current Democratic Party "communist"?

Communism to me implies that most property, industry, agriculture, etc. are state-owned. The political system is single-party, and those who don't belong to the party are subject to persecution. Intellectuals are forced to conform to what is dictated by government, or otherwise driven into exile or "purged". Basically an iron-fisted totalitarian State. Such as the old USSR was and that we find today in places like China and North Korea.

I don't see even the current far left Dems pushing toward that at all. Someone said they want to turn the US into Norway. I think that's pretty accurate. It's European-style "democratic socialism". I agree that it would be a disaster for this country, but it isn't based on Marxism as far as I'm aware, and it's a long way from Soviet or Chinese style Communism. Scandinavian countries still have multiple political parties and capitalism thrives, albeit under a heavy regulatory burden.

Is all this just hyperbole, or am I missing something?

Make no mistake.  The reason the Democrats are for AMNESTY which is essentially Open Borders is to change the demographics, tips more states BLUE, and install one party Democrat rule like they did in California.  They would love industry to be more regulated by government, pay more taxes, and be more controlled.  Maybe not full government ownership, but controlled to the point of close to government run. 

It is not hyperbole, it is reality.  Cortez and Sanders now dominate the Democrat party, and look what they want.  They call it "Democratic Socialism" which is a huge oxymoron.  First we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy, and our Republic is dependent on regulated Capitalism, and the ability of the private sector to thrive. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 14, 2019, 11:20:21 AM
Honest question: why do folks here call the current Democratic Party "communist"?

Communism to me implies that most property, industry, agriculture, etc. are state-owned. The political system is single-party, and those who don't belong to the party are subject to persecution. Intellectuals are forced to conform to what is dictated by government, or otherwise driven into exile or "purged". Basically an iron-fisted totalitarian State. Such as the old USSR was and that we find today in places like China and North Korea.

I don't see even the current far left Dems pushing toward that at all. Someone said they want to turn the US into Norway. I think that's pretty accurate. It's European-style "democratic socialism". I agree that it would be a disaster for this country, but it isn't based on Marxism as far as I'm aware, and it's a long way from Soviet or Chinese style Communism. Scandinavian countries still have multiple political parties and capitalism thrives, albeit under a heavy regulatory burden.

Is all this just hyperbole, or am I missing something?
The promises they are pushing are the promises pushed by the communists when they commenced their revolution.

I hate using memes to make a point, but this one seems very on point.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/c2a99eda819efcba1ebed1358764f8a2.jpg)
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 14, 2019, 12:07:04 PM
Make no mistake.  The reason the Democrats are for AMNESTY which is essentially Open Borders is to change the demographics, tips more states BLUE, and install one party Democrat rule like they did in California.  They would love industry to be more regulated by government, pay more taxes, and be more controlled.  Maybe not full government ownership, but controlled to the point of close to government run. 

It is not hyperbole, it is reality.  Cortez and Sanders now dominate the Democrat party, and look what they want.  They call it "Democratic Socialism" which is a huge oxymoron.  First we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy, and our Republic is dependent on regulated Capitalism, and the ability of the private sector to thrive.

Sorry, but based on what you wrote, it does sound to me like hyperbole to call it Communism. I agree that "democratic socialism" is an oxymoron, which is why I used quotes, but it is not true Communism which implies actual state ownership (though China has loosened that some) and a true one-party system. What they have in California is de facto one-party rule, but that's a far cry from outlawing other parties and tight State control of the private sector.

Also I don't think it's quite true (at least yet) that AOC and Sanders dominate the Dem party, though they are gaining more and more followers, especially among millennials and my students' generation. None of this bodes well for the future... "democratic socialism" would raise our taxes through the roof, crush the business sector under a weight of excessive regulation and likely spend us into a Greece-style economic meltdown. But there is still a centrist wing of the party, e.g. Biden. I'm concerned that by not using accurate language you lose the power to persuade people. When most people hear someone calling the Dems the Communist Party, they conjure up the spectre of McCarthyism in their minds - at least people of my generation do.

And there is a simpler, more benign explanation for why Dems push for amnesty for illegals - they are possessed by an excess of compassion. They feel more keenly than they think. Because of that, I doubt most of them are capable of following the consequences of their policies as far as you think. Plus, the "evil alt right" is against amnesty, so it must be a good thing. I doubt there is anything more sinister than that going on here.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 14, 2019, 12:11:50 PM
This sounds exactly like the current Democrat platform.  Any dissent within or outside the party is squashed in the media and by politicians.  Just try to stand up on any college campus and say "I am a conservative!"  You'll get spit on, beaten, and your career ruined.  Stand in the capital mall waiting for a bus wearing a MAGA hat and a crowd forms around you shouting you down and you're excoriated by the press.  You must not drive, eat meat, watch unapproved TV or movies, try to make something of yourself.

Yep, sounds pretty communist to me.

Heck, try saying those things anywhere in Vermont!  ;D

Vermont is about as progressive as any state gets. Yes, I joke too about the "People's Republic of Vermont". But I don't seriously think they are Communists.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 14, 2019, 12:18:12 PM
The current group infiltrating and taking over the democrat party have strong ties to various communist organizations. 

 The communist organizations have cloaked themselves in various names over the years because of the negative connotations associated with communist.   “Enviromentalist”, “liberal” and “progressive” are a few. 

And this DOES sound like McCarthyism. Communists infiltrating reputable organizations, disguising themselves and their true motives. Exactly what the Minnesota senator falsely accused hundreds of loyal Americans of. Sorry, I'm not buying it without solid evidence.

Quote
Sorry, I don’t have the cliff notes version, this takes a bit of reading and research plus a healthy dose of history to understand.

Spare me the patronizing. If you have references to solid, unimpeachable evidence, I'll read it. But I don't have the time or patience for conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 14, 2019, 12:37:44 PM
Azure, you are exactly who they are trying to convince by trying to sound "reasonable".  You've bought it and that is disappointing. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 14, 2019, 01:57:56 PM
Azure, you are exactly who they are trying to convince by trying to sound "reasonable".  You've bought it and that is disappointing.
I have to agree.

Here little (boy/girl), have a piece of candy . . .
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 14, 2019, 02:11:13 PM
And there is a simpler, more benign explanation for why Dems push for amnesty for illegals - they are possessed by an excess of compassion. They feel more keenly than they think.
I feel that the liberal group is made up of two distinct and very different groups.
There are the "Power Libs" at the helm, and a mass of excessively compassionate followers.  The Power Libs are the dangerous ones that set the agenda and create the distractions (free stuff) that "sound good" to the un-thinking but compassionate lib followers.  They know that once they obtain power through whatever means necessary, keeping that power is easy.

I am sure someone can try to make a case that conservatives do the same thing, but conservatives aren't so easily led around by the heart strings.  They tend to think things through more.

At least that's my theory, and I'm sticking with it.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 14, 2019, 02:13:11 PM
And this DOES sound like McCarthyism. Communists infiltrating reputable organizations, disguising themselves and their true motives. Exactly what the Minnesota senator falsely accused hundreds of loyal Americans of. Sorry, I'm not buying it without solid evidence.

 Just because you refuse to see it, or even look for it doesn't make it not true. 

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-R-pAOIeTd0M%2FULdHp2N280I%2FAAAAAAAAAYo%2Fe-yTcSN5wiw%2Fs1600%2Flalala%2Bcan%2527t%2Bhear%2Byou.jpg&f=1)


Spare me the patronizing. If you have references to solid, unimpeachable evidence, I'll read it. But I don't have the time or patience for conspiracy theories.

 You've demonstrated here time and time again little to no knowledge of issues, save for the "talking points" of the MSM or progressives.

 I don't have the time or patience for someone who tries to claim academic superiority who can't take the time to research a subject because they are afraid that what they find may not fit their narrative.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 14, 2019, 02:14:30 PM
Azure, you are exactly who they are trying to convince by trying to sound "reasonable".  You've bought it and that is disappointing.

 This.

 Again, the "useful idiots", those who refuse to open their eyes or ears to find the truth.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 14, 2019, 02:16:20 PM
You've demonstrated here time and time again little to no knowledge of issues, save for the "talking points" of the MSM or progressives.

 I don't have the time or patience for someone who tries to claim academic superiority who can't take the time to research a subject because they are afraid that what they find may not fit their narrative.
Azure, just so you know, we don't all feel that way.  Just the fact that you participate here means you are willing to listen to the other side and discuss.

I like Lucifer and usually agree with his point of view.  But when he throws up a dozen links with no personal commentary, I usually skip over them too.  I bet a lot of people do.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 14, 2019, 02:18:26 PM
Azure, just so you know, we don't all feel that way.  Just the fact that you participate here means you are willing to listen to the other side and discuss.

I like Lucifer and usually agree with his point of view.  But when he throws up a dozen links with no personal commentary, I usually skip over them too.  I bet a lot of people do.

   When I see some of your postings I just pass them over.  I bet a lot of people do.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 14, 2019, 02:29:15 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/093b96cf8cc22ba6d3660a927d8ad29b.jpg)
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 14, 2019, 02:32:20 PM
   When I see some of your postings I just pass them over.  I bet a lot of people do.
That's probably a good thing.  Sometimes I read some of my old posts and hope nobody else ever read them.  I should never post before my morning coffee, or after 5pm (Happy hours), but I often do anyway.

But I don't think we should be too hard on good people like Azure, or even Asechrest.  Without them, it gets awfully dull around here.  Steingar, on the other hand . . . (just kidding Steingar).

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 14, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
That's probably a good thing.  Sometimes I read some of my old posts and hope nobody else ever read them.  I should never post before my morning coffee, or after 5pm (Happy hours), but I often do anyway.

But I don't think we should be too hard on good people like Azure, or even Asechrest.  Without them, it gets awfully dull around here.  Steingar, on the other hand . . . (just kidding Steingar).
Agreed.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 14, 2019, 03:28:46 PM
The current group infiltrating and taking over the democrat party have strong ties to various communist organizations. 

 The communist organizations have cloaked themselves in various names over the years because of the negative connotations associated with communist.   “Enviromentalist”, “liberal” and “progressive” are a few. 

 Sorry, I don’t have the cliff notes version, this takes a bit of reading and research plus a healthy dose of history to understand.

 The current crop of Democrats don’t even begin to understand socialism in a country such as Norway.
If they did, they would be horrified knowing that the Norwegians take a hard line on immigration, and while the practice a form of socialism it has a lot of catches to it (no free lunch).

This and also what Little Joe said about two groups. There are two VERY distinct progressive leftists:  honest people who are moved by compassion but just can’t foresee the economic consequences of “free stuff for everyone”, and the true collectivist idealists who, make no mistake, are communist at heart, totalitarian and all. At risk of also being accused of being patronizing, there is plenty of historical documentation of literal card carrying Communists in the US working on long term plans to transform this country into a collectivist utopia. No the Democrat party is not technically communist now but they are chipping away at it. You are correct, communism means the government owns the means of production and controls the whole economy. The left is attacking the project piecemeal. Here is one example of a leftist slipping and revealing their true agenda.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=niJAkR_6tKQ

Hillary said something similar years ago about the gas industry. And we are getting very close with healthcare.

There are really only two basic systems of economics, one that allows individuals to own property and trade freely with each other, and one where the government owns everything and dictates and regulates who gets goods at what price. All others are just a mix of those. The left and the Democrat party are about moving more and more of the U.S. economy into the second group. It’s called “collectivism”. When it gets to 100% it’s malignant communism.

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 14, 2019, 03:58:27 PM
Just because you refuse to see it, or even look for it doesn't make it not true. 

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-R-pAOIeTd0M%2FULdHp2N280I%2FAAAAAAAAAYo%2Fe-yTcSN5wiw%2Fs1600%2Flalala%2Bcan%2527t%2Bhear%2Byou.jpg&f=1)


 You've demonstrated here time and time again little to no knowledge of issues, save for the "talking points" of the MSM or progressives.

 I don't have the time or patience for someone who tries to claim academic superiority who can't take the time to research a subject because they are afraid that what they find may not fit their narrative.


I will note then that you have made your decision in the absence of information. By your own admission, you do not have the time to become educated.

You picture appears to be more about you. Azure invited you to change his mind, but you declined.

It is hardly reasonable to call him the closed minded one because he wants to hear facts to back up your accusations.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 14, 2019, 04:27:30 PM
It is hardly reasonable to call him the closed minded one because he wants to hear facts to back up your accusations.

 And it's hardly reasonable to refer to a woman as a "He" and "him".    ::)

 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 14, 2019, 04:27:57 PM
Honest question: why do folks here call the current Democratic Party "communist"?

Communism to me implies that most property, industry, agriculture, etc. are state-owned. The political system is single-party, and those who don't belong to the party are subject to persecution. Intellectuals are forced to conform to what is dictated by government, or otherwise driven into exile or "purged". Basically an iron-fisted totalitarian State. Such as the old USSR was and that we find today in places like China and North Korea.

I don't see even the current far left Dems pushing toward that at all. Someone said they want to turn the US into Norway. I think that's pretty accurate. It's European-style "democratic socialism". I agree that it would be a disaster for this country, but it isn't based on Marxism as far as I'm aware, and it's a long way from Soviet or Chinese style Communism. Scandinavian countries still have multiple political parties and capitalism thrives, albeit under a heavy regulatory burden.

Is all this just hyperbole, or am I missing something?

My response to Lucifer was really to you. Here is the gist of what you are saying:

“Classic Marxism was based on humanistic social science and economics, industrialism, and state ownership of the means of production, which few leftists today take seriously. Even China today is a mixture of capitalism and communism. What the Left propagates today is not state ownership of companies, but rather the strict regulation of them instead. This, however, has not made the business community any better. It has, in fact, resulted in an unholy corporatist alliance, if not fascist wedding, between big business and big government in both Europe and North America.”

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/11/from_marxismcommunism_to_postmodern_liberal_fascism.html

Please go read the whole thing, it pulls all this together.

I think this is what you’re saying, the left and the Democrat Party are stopping short of openly promoting complete nationalization of all industries, that which you define as “communism”. What this article is saying is their goal is complete power and control over them - which is essentially the same thing.

 

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 14, 2019, 06:02:28 PM
Sorry, but based on what you wrote, it does sound to me like hyperbole to call it Communism. I agree that "democratic socialism" is an oxymoron, which is why I used quotes, but it is not true Communism which implies actual state ownership (though China has loosened that some) and a true one-party system. What they have in California is de facto one-party rule, but that's a far cry from outlawing other parties and tight State control of the private sector.

Also I don't think it's quite true (at least yet) that AOC and Sanders dominate the Dem party, though they are gaining more and more followers, especially among millennials and my students' generation. None of this bodes well for the future... "democratic socialism" would raise our taxes through the roof, crush the business sector under a weight of excessive regulation and likely spend us into a Greece-style economic meltdown. But there is still a centrist wing of the party, e.g. Biden. I'm concerned that by not using accurate language you lose the power to persuade people. When most people hear someone calling the Dems the Communist Party, they conjure up the spectre of McCarthyism in their minds - at least people of my generation do.

And there is a simpler, more benign explanation for why Dems push for amnesty for illegals - they are possessed by an excess of compassion. They feel more keenly than they think. Because of that, I doubt most of them are capable of following the consequences of their policies as far as you think. Plus, the "evil alt right" is against amnesty, so it must be a good thing. I doubt there is anything more sinister than that going on here.

Your never ending make believe view of modern communism is a big part of the reason that so many people fall the lies.

There is NO SUCH THING as pure communism, but silly people constantly bring it into the conversation to avoid the reality of how deeply bigoted, racist, hateful, murderous and destructive modern communism is.

Some call it socialism, but it never fails to devolve into communism once the 'right' people are in charge and then the killing starts.

Some call it progressive-ism, but look at how totalitarian every single item of the progressive agenda becomes.

Some call it social justice. What a joke. There is nothing what-so-ever just about communism and its sisters socialism, progressive-ism and liberalism. It is the single most regressive form of government on earth.

Communism always has to rewrite history to erase the truth and install the lies. Who's tearing down monuments and censoring textbooks, the arts and the media?

Communism always takes over personal choice to install collective control. What political party is all about making all your choices for you?

The democrat party is communist to its core and getting more totalitarian by the minute.

Pretending not to understand is just another form of projection.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 14, 2019, 06:05:50 PM
Rush, thank you for that link. There is a lot in that piece to think about. Much of what he says is close to what I have been saying. I certainly agree that the Left's philosophy today has a strong affinity with Postmodernism, and its rejection of reason and science in many areas is one of the points that has caused me to break ranks with them. What I remain unconvinced of is that their goal has much in common with fascism, as this author claims. I do not think it is complete state control that they are after, rather an increase in regulation and limitations on free enterprise but still falling well short of what people here seem to be saying. I would be more inclined to agree if there were examples of modern countries that have followed their model that have morphed into fascist or totalitarian states. I don't know of any, as the examples closest to what seems to be their ultimate goal are the Scandinavian countries.

If anyone believes that the "Scandinavian" model is a ruse and that their true objective is more sinister, I still wait for hard evidence of that.

A movement can always be hijacked, of course, so one must always be vigilant.

And I hope no one here takes any of what I say as an endorsement of the Left's goals or philosophy... just that I don't believe that understanding them is helped by using terms that don't really apply, and carry emotional baggage that can lead to further confusion.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 14, 2019, 06:16:54 PM
Your never ending make believe view of modern communism is a big part of the reason that so many people fall the lies.

There is NO SUCH THING as pure communism, but silly people constantly bring it into the conversation to avoid the reality of how deeply bigoted, racist, hateful, murderous and destructive modern communism is.

Some call it socialism, but it never fails to devolve into communism once the 'right' people are in charge and then the killing starts.

Some call it progressive-ism, but look at how totalitarian every single item of the progressive agenda becomes.

Some call it social justice. What a joke. There is nothing what-so-ever just about communism and its sisters socialism, progressive-ism and liberalism. It is the single most regressive form of government on earth.

Communism always has to rewrite history to erase the truth and install the lies. Who's tearing down monuments and censoring textbooks, the arts and the media?

Communism always takes over personal choice to install collective control. What political party is all about making all your choices for you?

The democrat party is communist to its core and getting more totalitarian by the minute.

Pretending not to understand is just another form of projection.

So which are you arguing, that these people are disguising their true intent which is to turn the US into a totalitarian state, or that they are starting down a slippery slope whose endpoint is likely to be the same thing?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 14, 2019, 06:52:06 PM
Is there any other possible outcome to their agenda?

The democratic party is defacto a communist agent in America and nothing seems to stop them from conning naive people.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 14, 2019, 08:15:29 PM
Rush, thank you for that link. There is a lot in that piece to think about. Much of what he says is close to what I have been saying. I certainly agree that the Left's philosophy today has a strong affinity with Postmodernism, and its rejection of reason and science in many areas is one of the points that has caused me to break ranks with them. What I remain unconvinced of is that their goal has much in common with fascism, as this author claims. I do not think it is complete state control that they are after, rather an increase in regulation and limitations on free enterprise but still falling well short of what people here seem to be saying. I would be more inclined to agree if there were examples of modern countries that have followed their model that have morphed into fascist or totalitarian states. I don't know of any, as the examples closest to what seems to be their ultimate goal are the Scandinavian countries.

If anyone believes that the "Scandinavian" model is a ruse and that their true objective is more sinister, I still wait for hard evidence of that.

A movement can always be hijacked, of course, so one must always be vigilant.

And I hope no one here takes any of what I say as an endorsement of the Left's goals or philosophy... just that I don't believe that understanding them is helped by using terms that don't really apply, and carry emotional baggage that can lead to further confusion.

Read the platform of the Justic Democrats. This is what every Democrat candidate has signed on for.

Green New Deal
Living Wage
Federal job guarantee
High taxes on the rich without deductions. Or as they say, “dodging”
America yielding superpower status
Medicare for all
Expand social security and Medicare/Medicaid
Government mandated leave policies
Racial “justice”
Protect women’s rights (against...?)
War on homelessness
Gun Regulation
One voting policies
Abolish ICE
Reform immigration
Abolish the death penalty
Legalize drug use

After the do all this, how can you say they are merely adding more regulatory controls?  What freedoms will be left?







Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 15, 2019, 04:24:03 AM
As far as I know neither Hickenlooper nor Klobuchar have signed on to this platform, but yes, this is the platform of the Sanders/AOC progressive wing. Believe me, I'm well aware of this movement - remember, I live in Vermont.

You are putting words in my mouth - I never said they were "only" adding more regulatory controls. This would be a pretty radical (and IMO disastrous) invasion of the federal government into the private sector. But it is still not total state control. Whether it would ultimately lead to that is unknown - let's hope we don't find out.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 15, 2019, 05:17:49 AM
Read the platform of the Justic Democrats. This is what every Democrat candidate has signed on for.

Green New Deal
Living Wage
.
.
.
The part I missed when I first read that was the word "candidate".  At first I though you said "EVERY DEMOCRAT" signed on and I was going to take issue.  But without looking it up, I think you are right.  And I think that bodes well for an R winning in 2020.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 15, 2019, 05:51:34 AM
One of my biggest problems in life is that I love irony.  And there is something wonderfully ironic in this thread.  The hallmark and necessary condition of "Communism" is one party rule with suppression of all other political activity.  There are states with very solid one party rule, and they are all very very firmly in the control of the GOP.

I have found that the terms "communist" and "socialist" are thrown about widely with little real wisdom simply to inflame.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 15, 2019, 05:58:55 AM
The part I missed when I first read that was the word "candidate".  At first I though you said "EVERY DEMOCRAT" signed on and I was going to take issue.  But without looking it up, I think you are right.  And I think that bodes well for an R winning in 2020.

I did look up the two I mentioned. Klobuchar likes the GND but considers it "unrealistic". Hickenlooper is less clear but calls himself an "extreme moderate" and a "pragmatic progressive", whatever that means. He does not seem to have signed on to the GND unless I missed it. There are probably others, it is such a wide field. Definitely NOT as diverse as one would hope, and the progressive wing dominates the field, I agree with that. But not a solid bloc.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 15, 2019, 06:04:49 AM
  And I think that bodes well for an R winning in 2020.

But the only R who will really matter in 2020 is Trump. And if someone from that wing gets the D nomination, the voting public is likely to elect him or her just to get rid of Trump. Therein lies the real danger, I think.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 15, 2019, 06:31:39 AM
But the only R who will really matter in 2020 is Trump. And if someone from that wing gets the D nomination, the voting public is likely to elect him or her just to get rid of Trump. Therein lies the real danger, I think.

 Elections don't work like that.

 The key to every election is message.   A candidate has to have a message that resonates with voters.  2016 was a perfect example.

 Here we had the heir apparent, HRC, who was heavily favored to win.  She had the backing of democrats, progressives and the media.  She was so sure of winning she didn't bother to actively campaign.  After all, it was "in the bag".

 Trump had a message, one that attracted voters.  He stayed on message to the ultimate win.   Go back through elections in the 20th and 21st century and you will see this played out time and time again. 

 Right now the message from the progressives are "open borders, more taxes, more social spending, free healthcare and suppression of anyone who disagrees".   No clear message, and not one that mainstream Americans want to get behind.  Their other message is "we hate Trump".   That too will get them nowhere.

 Trump still has a solid base and is getting results.  This is huge to mainstream America.  The booming economy is also a big plus.   The progressives realize that one or two things must happen to defeat Trump in 2020, the first is separating him from his base and the second is a failed economy.   They have tried over and over to separate the base and it hasn't worked.  And the economy is robust.

 An election where the minority of alt left radical progressives taking control and using a weak message of "hate Trump" to get a democrat elected won't happen, thus why we see what is going on right now.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 15, 2019, 06:48:44 AM
Elections don't work like that.

Normally they don't. And I never said that alone would get them the win. You are misconstruing my point.

Quote
Here we had the heir apparent, HRC, who was heavily favored to win.  She had the backing of democrats, progressives and the media.  She was so sure of winning she didn't bother to actively campaign.  After all, it was "in the bag".

No argument there.

Quote
Right now the message from the progressives are "open borders, more taxes, more social spending, free healthcare and suppression of anyone who disagrees".   No clear message, and not one that mainstream Americans want to get behind.  Their other message is "we hate Trump".   That too will get them nowhere.

I think you underestimate their appeal, especially to younger voters. Single payer health care is a hugely popular plank in their platform, as are immigration reform and "gun control". Combine that with "we hate Trump" and you have something that may well appeal to enough voters to put them over the top.

Quote
Trump still has a solid base and is getting results.  This is huge to mainstream America.  The booming economy is also a big plus.   The progressives realize that one or two things must happen to defeat Trump in 2020, the first is separating him from his base and the second is a failed economy.   They have tried over and over to separate the base and it hasn't worked.  And the economy is robust.

 An election where the minority of alt left radical progressives taking control and using a weak message of "hate Trump" to get a democrat elected won't happen, thus why we see what is going on right now.

Trump's base is something like 30%. He needed working class people in a number of key states - essentially what were once called Reagan Democrats - to jump ship and take a chance on a government-naive businessman. Many of those people are still in his camp, but many have grown disillusioned as well. And don't underestimate the power of a mobilized opposition. The 2018 midterms were widely read as a referendum on Trump, and it did not go well for the Rs, at least in the House. I would not expect a repeat of 2016, despite the booming economy - which is showing some signs of slowing, a normal part of the cycle, but depending on what happens in the next year, the economy might not be a strong argument in Trump's favor either.

Promises made, promises kept is still his strongest argument - but it may not be enough and I think it is overconfidence to count on it.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 15, 2019, 07:06:32 AM
There are states with very solid one party rule, and they are all very very firmly in the control of the GOP.
I would imagine that they are relatively low-population states.  I can't think of any high-population state that is in GOP control.  Quite the opposite.  Big democrat cities are overwhelming any rural republican votes.  Illinois, Wisconsin, New York, California, and on and on.  The one party rule is very firmly in the democrat favor.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 15, 2019, 07:08:55 AM
I would imagine that they are relatively low-population states.  I can't think of any high-population state that is in GOP control.  Quite the opposite.  Big democrat cities are overwhelming any rural republican votes.  Illinois, Wisconsin, New York, California, and on and on.  The one party rule is very firmly in the democrat favor.

It is not only cities.  It is the suburbs and ex burbs too which are now solidly Democrat.  Entire Metro areas are BLUE and controlling the state.  I see it in my area.  We are losing to the URBANITES.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 15, 2019, 07:41:35 AM
One of my biggest problems in life is that I love irony.  And there is something wonderfully ironic in this thread.  The hallmark and necessary condition of "Communism" is one party rule with suppression of all other political activity.  There are states with very solid one party rule, and they are all very very firmly in the control of the GOP.

I have found that the terms "communist" and "socialist" are thrown about widely with little real wisdom simply to inflame.
We don’t currently have one party rule, but you can’t be blind to the fact that the left is pushing for just that.

There is a movement to pack the USSC being led by Eric Holder. The move to lower the voting age to 16 and allow non-citizens to vote is being led by democrat leaders in Congress.  The media has demonstrated that they are active advocates for one side and demonizers of the right. Conservative speakers are actively silenced on campuses and in the public square, or shouted down by people unwilling to hear a message different from their own. Conservatives are demonized across the societal spectrum, to the point that it is dangerous to life, limb and property to wear a MAGA hat or put a pro-Trump bumper sticker on our cars. The left is literally unwilling to coexist with conservatives. It seeks to silence, marginalize, and ultimately eliminate it.

Don’t tell me that those activities aren’t socialistic and driven by the desire for single party rule.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 15, 2019, 08:36:24 AM
It is not only cities.  It is the suburbs and ex burbs too which are now solidly Democrat.  Entire Metro areas are BLUE and controlling the state.  I see it in my area.  We are losing to the URBANITES.

So you're saying that Pat Toomey, Tom Ridge, Tom corbett and Mark Schweiker aren't Republican? 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on March 15, 2019, 09:14:38 AM
So you're saying that Pat Toomey, Tom Ridge, Tom corbett and Mark Schweiker aren't Republican?

Your information is outdated, Perfesser....
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 15, 2019, 09:15:00 AM
Normally they don't. And I never said that alone would get them the win. You are misconstruing my point.

No argument there.

I think you underestimate their appeal, especially to younger voters. Single payer health care is a hugely popular plank in their platform, as are immigration reform and "gun control". Combine that with "we hate Trump" and you have something that may well appeal to enough voters to put them over the top.

Trump's base is something like 30%. He needed working class people in a number of key states - essentially what were once called Reagan Democrats - to jump ship and take a chance on a government-naive businessman. Many of those people are still in his camp, but many have grown disillusioned as well. And don't underestimate the power of a mobilized opposition. The 2018 midterms were widely read as a referendum on Trump, and it did not go well for the Rs, at least in the House. I would not expect a repeat of 2016, despite the booming economy - which is showing some signs of slowing, a normal part of the cycle, but depending on what happens in the next year, the economy might not be a strong argument in Trump's favor either.

Promises made, promises kept is still his strongest argument - but it may not be enough and I think it is overconfidence to count on it.

Interesting.

BTW, using historical facts, the 2018 election could hardly be seen as a “referendum on Trump”.

Anyway, we are going into 2020, and the President’s message will be “America First, Secure Borders, Strong Economy, Lower Taxes and Low Unemployment”.

What message will the Democrats use to counter that?

Also, with the current crop of declared democrats, which one do you favor, and which of their policies do you favor, and why?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 15, 2019, 09:35:44 AM
Interesting.

BTW, using historical facts, the 2018 election could hardly be seen as a “referendum on Trump”.

Anyway, we are going into 2020, and the President’s message will be “America First, Secure Borders, Strong Economy, Lower Taxes and Low Unemployment”.

What message will the Democrats use to counter that?
"We hate Trump and we'll give you free stuff."
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 15, 2019, 09:40:27 AM
So you're saying that Pat Toomey, Tom Ridge, Tom corbett and Mark Schweiker aren't Republican?

Pat Toomey is the only one still in office and he is a RINO Republican.  Bob Casey, and our Governor, Tom Wolf are Far Left whackos in the Obama mold.  My county, once strongly Republican is now solidly DEMOCRAT.  It is happening everywhere.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 15, 2019, 09:41:31 AM
Interesting.

BTW, using historical facts, the 2018 election could hardly be seen as a “referendum on Trump”.

Anyway, we are going into 2020, and the President’s message will be “America First, Secure Borders, Strong Economy, Lower Taxes and Low Unemployment”.

What message will the Democrats use to counter that?

Also, with the current crop of declared democrats, which one do you favor, and which of their policies do you favor, and why?

The Democrats will counter with Free healthcare, free college, free everything. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 15, 2019, 10:37:58 AM
Your information is outdated, Perfesser....

So now you're telling me that Pat Toomey isn't Republican?  I suspect that's news to him.  Admittedly the Pennsylvania Republican governors aren't governors now, but they are recent.  Just because a Democrat has the office now doesn't mean its a lock, as the recent presence of Republicans attests.  Moreover, Anthony's state house is controlled by the GOP.

This is more of Anthony claiming an issue that simply doesn't exist.  For example, he has claimed stridently over and over that the media is a giant left wing cabal, the truth os of course very different.  Now he's saying the Democrats have a lock on his state government which is also patently untrue.  I suspect that none of you will believe me either despite the easy access of information.  Anthony says something you like, therefore he must be correct.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 15, 2019, 12:36:28 PM
So now you're telling me that Pat Toomey isn't Republican?  I suspect that's news to him.  Admittedly the Pennsylvania Republican governors aren't governors now, but they are recent.  Just because a Democrat has the office now doesn't mean its a lock, as the recent presence of Republicans attests.  Moreover, Anthony's state house is controlled by the GOP.

This is more of Anthony claiming an issue that simply doesn't exist.  For example, he has claimed stridently over and over that the media is a giant left wing cabal, the truth os of course very different.  Now he's saying the Democrats have a lock on his state government which is also patently untrue.  I suspect that none of you will believe me either despite the easy access of information.  Anthony says something you like, therefore he must be correct.

Look who won this past election on both the state and Fed levels in suburbs.  First time women, far left Democrats.  The state houses are marginally Republican.  Our Democrat Governor is on his second term.  I don't see a Republican winning any time soon, and our houses will eventual go Democrat.

Yes the MEDIA is 95% or more far left Progressive and solely support Democrats.  Goebbels would be envious. 

The reason you don't see CNN, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, the New York Time, Washington Post etc. As leftist is that you agree with everything they say so to YOU they are CENTRIST.  To many others and those with any objectivity, they are Far Left, and they are!
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 15, 2019, 04:38:05 PM
This is more of Anthony claiming an issue that simply doesn't exist.  For example, he has claimed stridently over and over that the media is a giant left wing cabal, the truth os of course very different.  Now he's saying the Democrats have a lock on his state government which is also patently untrue.  I suspect that none of you will believe me either despite the easy access of information.  Anthony says something you like, therefore he must be correct.

 So the left has Media Matters, a group that monitors conservative news and radio.  They are infamous for starting and backing campaigns to shut down conservatives.

 What is the conservative group that uses the same tactics?

 Also, the majority of conservative sites advance and defend free speech, yet we see, time and time again, the liberal/progressive sites trying to shut down free speech.   Why is that?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 15, 2019, 08:04:43 PM
Interesting.

BTW, using historical facts, the 2018 election could hardly be seen as a “referendum on Trump”.

Anyway, we are going into 2020, and the President’s message will be “America First, Secure Borders, Strong Economy, Lower Taxes and Low Unemployment”.

What message will the Democrats use to counter that?

Of course we don't know yet - they haven't agreed on a party platform for 2020. But my guess is it will be some combination of "Medicare For All", "Equal Rights for Women", "A Woman's Right to Choose", and "A Living Wage for All".

Quote
Also, with the current crop of declared democrats, which one do you favor, and which of their policies do you favor, and why?

What makes you think I favor ANY of them? Actually, I don't. Of the declared candidates whose positions are clear, there is not a single one I could vote for. I hold out little hope that the ones who haven't staked out clear positions yet (e.g. Hickenlooper, O'Rourke) will prove to be much more moderate than the others, but I've been surprised before.

As things stand, I expect to be either voting for Trump in 2020 as the lesser of two evils, or sitting the election out.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 16, 2019, 05:20:37 AM
I wonder what rights the Democrats think women don't have in the United States.  Or are they just pandering because this is the year, or years of the woman, and promoting women as all powerful?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 16, 2019, 05:33:44 AM
I wonder what rights the Democrats think women don't have in the United States.  Or are they just pandering because this is the year, or years of the woman, and promoting women as all powerful?
They don't have the right to expect their husbands have their babies so that they can remain productive members of the workforce and keep their careers on track so that they be paid as much as men.

It pains me that feminists practically force me into a roll that sounds misogynistic.  I'm not really.  I respect women every bit as much as I respect men.  Maybe more.  Women are so much better than men in many areas of life.  Men couldn't live without women and vice versa.  But the same can be said in reverse too.  I am totally against discrimination, but we have to remember, men and women are different and the expectations of them are different.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 06:05:59 AM
Of course we don't know yet - they haven't agreed on a party platform for 2020. But my guess is it will be some combination of "Medicare For All", "Equal Rights for Women", "A Woman's Right to Choose", and "A Living Wage for All".

 Elections are won by a candidates base, plus attracting those in the center (moderates) to vote for them.   We've already discussed what apparently will be Trump's message.

 So in order for the democrats to attract centrist (moderate) voters they will need a message that will appeal to them.

 1) "Medicare For All".   How does this attract moderate voters?  We know medicare has not been all that great of a program, and by going to this type of healthcare those privately insured will be giving up a lot they already have under private insurance.   Plus those moderates are well aware of the "no free lunch" mantra, and they realize that Medicare for all means higher taxes, another item that does not appeal to moderates.

2) "Equal Rights for Women".  In this day and time this is really a non starter.  Women in this country have all sorts of "equal rights" and in many cases even more rights than men.  The Trump administration has been pro women, he has put women in several key positions and has advocated for many items that are beneficial to women.   So how does the democrat candidate use this effectively as a message?  This seems like a "Stronger Together" type message.

3) "A Woman's Right to Choose".  So we have a large number of progressives and liberals going all out on abortion and even promoting infanticide.  This does not play well to those in the center.  It's going to be very difficult trying to sell "A right to Choose" alongside infanticide.  And if you look at polls, you'll see that the abortion issue is really not that big, or at least not big enough to be a campaign issue in presidential politics.  Plus, with all the infanticide stuff going on, there are treasure troves of material for the republicans to use in campaign ads against the progressives.  So, another non starter message.

4) "A Living Wage for All".  Right now the economy is booming under the current President.  There are more jobs than people to fill them, which means employers are having to up wages and benefits to attract employees.  Minority unemployment is at all time lows.  In the few areas that have succumbed to the $15/hour minimum wage idea, those jobs are floundering as employers are cutting hours.  In other words, high minimum wage laws do not equate to better pay jobs.  Minimum wage was never meant to be a standard for career jobs.   So in our economy now, under Trump, it's actually quite easy for people, who desire, to find better paying jobs due to demand.

 So the "living wage for all" only really appeals to a small part of the progressives which in reality is in their base, and does not attract those key moderates.   Another slogan, but does nothing for the candidate.

 So, as we see, no real message.  And without a clear message it will be difficult for a democrat candidate to attract those all important moderate votes.   The only people that "hate Trump" applies to are those already firmly in the base.

 If you follow polls, Trump has equaled if not exceeded his predecessor in polling for the same time periods of their respective administrations.  You stated earlier that the 2018 mid terms were a "referendum on Trump", but lets look at the 2010 mid term on BHO where he took the biggest loss since the great depression.  That mid term was a referendum on a president.   BTW, BHO went on to when re-election.

 So looking at historical parallels it seems Trump is sitting in a pretty good position, thus why we see such a frenzy going on with the democrats.  Of course, a lot can happen in a year.

 Bottom line, just because the opposite party hates a particular person does not equate to winning an election.  With no clear and concise message the opposition doesn't stand a chance.  The last example of this was the shoe in can't lose candidate that chose "Stronger Together" then proceeded to "run the clock out" as she felt it was a done deal.


As things stand, I expect to be either voting for Trump in 2020 as the lesser of two evils, or sitting the election out.

 Fair enough.  But if you don't participate in the process, then you really don't have a right to complain about the results.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 06:07:03 AM
I wonder what rights the Democrats think women don't have in the United States.  Or are they just pandering because this is the year, or years of the woman, and promoting women as all powerful?

 It's an empty message that won't play to moderates.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 16, 2019, 06:12:25 AM
It's an empty message that won't play to moderates.

It Is just another attempt by the Democrats to push IDENTITY POLITICS to divide us.  Everyone is a victim and they need the Democrats to pass new laws and regulations to protect them. 

Gender, Race, Sexual Orientation, Ethnicity, Skin Color, Religion, all used by the Democrats to divide us.  It is disgusting. The MEDIA loves it and also promotes it to create controversy, and viewership. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 06:21:10 AM
It Is just another attempt by the Democrats to push IDENTITY POLITICS to divide us.  Everyone is a victim and they need the Democrats to pass new laws and regulations to protect them. 

Gender, Race, Sexual Orientation, Ethnicity, Skin Color, Religion, all used by the Democrats to divide us.  It is disgusting. The MEDIA loves it and also promotes it to create controversy, and viewership.

 Anyone who has studied elections knows they are won on messaging.  They also know that certain items such as a strong base, strong economy and so forth helps the incumbent.

 The dems are desperate.  They have been unable to split the President's base away from him.  The economy is at all time highs, and despite the road blocks of the democrats the President has made tremendous progress.

 Look for them to sling any and all shit against the wall hoping something will stick.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 16, 2019, 07:02:37 AM
Without either intelligent leadership, and any kind of platform at all, the communist party (they call themselves democrats) is adrift in a sea of anger, spite, jealousy and treason. Take away the three worst offenders AOC, Pelosi and shit show schumer, and you have a party of nothings, doing nothing, thinking of nothing but selfishness and behaving like baboons loose in a hospital storage closet.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 16, 2019, 07:24:30 AM
The Democrat Party is clearly ANTI SEMITIC.  Why doesn't the MEDIA hold them accountable?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 16, 2019, 07:55:59 AM
The Democrat Party is clearly ANTI SEMITIC.  Why doesn't the MEDIA hold them accountable?

Because the communist party (Democrat’s) is deeply bigoted
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 08:32:13 AM
The Democrat Party is clearly ANTI SEMITIC.  Why doesn't the MEDIA hold them accountable?

You actually have to go back and study the history of the democrat party.  Their roots are deep in racism and bigotry, and hate.   But, they are masters of deception and projection. 

With the recent history of the DNC being taken over by the alt left radical progressives, those mask have come off.  In the true form of propaganda the MSM simply ignores it and tries to stear the narrative.

 Remember, the progressives need their useful idiots.  These are people who take the msm at their word without digging deeper into the story.  We see that here time and time again.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 16, 2019, 08:35:14 AM
Yes many of our liberal/progressive friends here rely on CNN, and the rest of the mainstream media for their talking points. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 09:21:58 AM
Yes many of our liberal/progressive friends here rely on CNN, and the rest of the mainstream media for their talking points.

The problem is they take it at face value, and don’t question it.  “Useful idiots”
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 16, 2019, 11:04:41 AM
Lucifer, we shall see... there is little point arguing about it now as so many things could change between now and 11/20. I would point out, though, that single-payer health care is favored by a majority today according to polls. The exact percentage varies by poll; I have seen as high as 70%, though the Kaiser poll has it between 55% and 60%, and pretty much steady for at least the past year. Assuming it is above 50%, I can't believe that many of those in favor aren't moderates. I recently reconnected with someone who was a friend of my family when I was little, who has always been a conservative Democrat. He still is, but even he expresses frustration that the rest of the developed world has universal health coverage and we still do not. (He is well aware of the downside, of course, in high taxes and long waits for physician visits.) There are several flavors of single-payer being kicked around, and even Medicare For All is likely to not be exactly that when everything shakes out.

And we shouldn't forget the large numbers of moderates who are loyal to whatever party they affiliate with - and many of those vote Democratic, like the man I just mentioned. I'm not sure whether there are many moderate Republicans who will vote a second time for Trump (but of course, even the most loyal Democrat moderates may not be able to bring themselves to vote for the likes of Kamala Harris either).

I didn't mean literally that I wouldn't participate in the election, just that I would leave the presidential ballot blank.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 11:20:26 AM
Lucifer, we shall see... there is little point arguing about it now as so many things could change between now and 11/20. I would point out, though, that single-payer health care is favored by a majority today according to polls. The exact percentage varies by poll; I have seen as high as 70%, though the Kaiser poll has it between 55% and 60%, and pretty much steady for at least the past year. Assuming it is above 50%, I can't believe that many of those in favor aren't moderates. I recently reconnected with someone who was a friend of my family when I was little, who has always been a conservative Democrat. He still is, but even he expresses frustration that the rest of the developed world has universal health coverage and we still do not. (He is well aware of the downside, of course, in high taxes and long waits for physician visits.) There are several flavors of single-payer being kicked around, and even Medicare For All is likely to not be exactly that when everything shakes out.

And we shouldn't forget the large numbers of moderates who are loyal to whatever party they affiliate with - and many of those vote Democratic, like the man I just mentioned. I'm not sure whether there are many moderate Republicans who will vote a second time for Trump (but of course, even the most loyal Democrat moderates may not be able to bring themselves to vote for the likes of Kamala Harris either).

I didn't mean literally that I wouldn't participate in the election, just that I would leave the presidential ballot blank.

It’s a discussion board, not an argument. 

 Since 2016 I’ve asked that question several times, what message would the Democrats use in 2020 to win the election.  So far, no answer. 

I would like to know what will entice people to give up putting our country first, a roaring economy, low unemployment and a labor market that offers so many choices.  Somehow the promise of a government run healthcare system just doesn’t seem to fit.

By the way, not voting is not participating.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 16, 2019, 11:33:44 AM
It’s a discussion board, not an argument. 
I like that. I wish everyone would remember that.

Quote
Since 2016 I’ve asked that question several times, what message would the Democrats use in 2020 to win the election.  So far, no answer. 
Russians!  Collusion!  Obstruction of Justice!  Pussy!  Stole the election!  Orange Man Bad!
That is enough for an awful lot of Libs I know.
Quote
I would like to know what will entice people to give up putting our country first, a roaring economy, low unemployment and a labor market that offers so many choices.  Somehow the promise of a government run healthcare system just doesn’t seem to fit.
People are never happy as long as they think someone else is getting something they aren't.  If they can vote for free stuff for themselves, many will.

Quote
By the way, not voting is not participating.
I agree.  At least throw your vote away for a 3rd party candidate or a write in.  That will reduce the poplar vote percentage for both candidates that you don't like.  That at least sends a message.  Not voting just means you don't care.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 16, 2019, 11:36:47 AM
Since 2016 I’ve asked that question several times, what message would the Democrats use in 2020 to win the election.  So far, no answer.

I gave you an answer, you just didn't like it.  ;)

Quote
I would like to know what will entice people to give up putting our country first, a roaring economy, low unemployment and a labor market that offers so many choices.  Somehow the promise of a government run healthcare system just doesn’t seem to fit.

Many people are very much ready to give up liberty and prosperity for security and the illusion that the government will take care of them. And you're reducing the hypothetical platform to one plank. There will also almost certainly be the promise of redistributing wealth, mostly by raising taxes on corporations and the rich. Justice for minorities and women resonates with yet another group of voters; and then there are other social issues such as abortion, LGBT rights, etc. Combine that with a general dislike of Trump and I think they have a strong chance of winning IF they pick the right candidate (and no, I have no idea who that will be, and suspect the eventual nominee hasn't entered the field yet). As I said before, the face of the electorate is changing and younger voters today are much less predisposed against the idea of socialism than previous generations. It would be a mistake to think the R's have it in the bag just because they have a solid message.

Quote
By the way, not voting is not participating.

Point taken. However, if the choice is between two equally bad things, it seems to me there is little harm in not choosing. <shrug>
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 16, 2019, 11:43:11 AM
I agree.  At least throw your vote away for a 3rd party candidate or a write in.  That will reduce the poplar vote percentage for both candidates that you don't like.  That at least sends a message.  Not voting just means you don't care.

Actually that's an idea I've never considered because it usually means taking a vote away from someone I'd prefer. If there is a 3rd party candidate on the ballot that I like, that is something I might just do. Might be the first time I've ever voted Libertarian...
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 16, 2019, 11:43:33 AM
I agree.  At least throw your vote away for a 3rd party candidate or a write in.  That will reduce the poplar vote percentage for both candidates that you don't like.  That at least sends a message.  Not voting just means you don't care.
I wish that every election for every office had a "none of the above" choice.  If that one wins then we get a do-over with different candidates.  I think that there are a lot of elections decided by "I hate our guy but I hate their guy more."
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 12:02:49 PM
I gave you an answer, you just didn't like it.  ;)

Many people are very much ready to give up liberty and prosperity for security and the illusion that the government will take care of them. And you're reducing the hypothetical platform to one plank. There will also almost certainly be the promise of redistributing wealth, mostly by raising taxes on corporations and the rich. Justice for minorities and women resonates with yet another group of voters; and then there are other social issues such as abortion, LGBT rights, etc. Combine that with a general dislike of Trump and I think they have a strong chance of winning IF they pick the right candidate (and no, I have no idea who that will be, and suspect the eventual nominee hasn't entered the field yet). As I said before, the face of the electorate is changing and younger voters today are much less predisposed against the idea of socialism than previous generations. It would be a mistake to think the R's have it in the bag just because they have a solid message.

Point taken. However, if the choice is between two equally bad things, it seems to me there is little harm in not choosing. <shrug>

Actually I never said I didn’t like your answer.  The reality is your answer is severely lacking.

Let’s be frank here, you don’t understand how elections work, that’s obvious.  Spend some time on managing campaigns and messaging.  It’s an in-depth study into what motivates people to vote.  This is why smart candidates seek out people who are in tune with this to manage their campaigns. 2016 was a great example of messaging and the consequences.  So was 2008 and 2012.  Other notable examples were 1980, 1984 and 1992.

Right now the Democrats are throwing anything and everything against the wall praying something takes hold.  But the party has been taken so far left, the messaging actually turns people off. 

Again, there are two crucial ways to defeat Trump in 2020.  Separate him from his base or the economy crashes.  This is what’s driving the dems crazy.  Sorry, slogans of free stuff or women’s rights, or even more abortions won’t do it. 

The dims made a fatal miscalculation in 2016 and the ensuing butthurt is still ongoing.  Oddly enough they haven’t figured out where they went wrong.  The current crop of candidates proves this. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 16, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Were the election tomorrow I think i’d Fill in the “anyone but Trump”  box. Even Kamal Harris sounds better. The only one I was excited about was Sherrod Brown, and he ain’t in it.

I do hope the platform includes some sort of single payer health care, even if it is Medicare for all. It’s about time. Obviously they can’t depend on anything working through the insurance system, since the GOP will just tear it down.

I also hope it includes some sort of criminal justice reform. We’ve too many folks in prison. I’m for marijuana legalization just for that, one less excuse to throw people in jail. We incarcerate more than any other nation.

My big worry is whoever runs for the Dems will be as far left at Trumplethinskin is to the right. They won’t be acceptable to the majority and the Mango Mussolini’s incumbent advantage I’ll see him through a second term, something America really doesn’t need.

Time will tell. Whatever it is, I’m certain it will be anathema here.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 16, 2019, 12:19:06 PM
Were the election tomorrow I think i’d Fill in the “anyone but Trump”  box. Even Kamal Harris sounds better. The only one I was excited about was Sherrod Brown, and he ain’t in it.
What do you not like about Trump?  Using Bernie as an example of "anyone but Trump" candidate, what do you like about Bernie that Trump isn't doing?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 16, 2019, 12:26:43 PM
What do you not like about Trump?  Using Bernie as an example of "anyone but Trump" candidate, what do you like about Bernie that Trump isn't doing?

Bernie isn’t a racist who cares about himself and his family to the exclusion of all else.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 16, 2019, 12:28:59 PM
Bernie isn’t a racist who cares about himself and his family to the exclusion of all else.

You really don’t have a fucking clue. Other than the lies you pathetic snowflakes tell each other, name an actual racist action perpetrated by President a Trump.

Your mind is an empty place that if being filled with sound bite lies and ignorant bullshit.

Congratulations. You are a fucking idiot.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 16, 2019, 12:30:57 PM
You really don’t have a fucking clue. Other than the lies you pathetic snowflakes tell each other, name an actual racist action perpetrated by President a Trump.

Your mind is an empty place that if being filled with sound bite lies and ignorant bullshit.

Congratulations. You are a fucking idiot.

How do Number 7’s brain cells die?













Alone.

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 16, 2019, 12:33:59 PM
Bernie isn’t a racist who cares about himself and his family to the exclusion of all else.

How is Trump a racist?  What policies has he put in place that are racist?  The Trump Presidency has been extremely successful for the American people, so far.  Black and Hispanic unemployment are at ALL TIME LOWS.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 16, 2019, 01:28:28 PM
Actually I never said I didn’t like your answer.  The reality is your answer is severely lacking.

Let’s be frank here, you don’t understand how elections work, that’s obvious.  Spend some time on managing campaigns and messaging.  It’s an in-depth study into what motivates people to vote.  This is why smart candidates seek out people who are in tune with this to manage their campaigns. 2016 was a great example of messaging and the consequences.  So was 2008 and 2012.  Other notable examples were 1980, 1984 and 1992.

Right now the Democrats are throwing anything and everything against the wall praying something takes hold.  But the party has been taken so far left, the messaging actually turns people off. 

Again, there are two crucial ways to defeat Trump in 2020.  Separate him from his base or the economy crashes.  This is what’s driving the dems crazy.  Sorry, slogans of free stuff or women’s rights, or even more abortions won’t do it. 

The dims made a fatal miscalculation in 2016 and the ensuing butthurt is still ongoing.  Oddly enough they haven’t figured out where they went wrong.  The current crop of candidates proves this.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but your arrogance (and hubris) are almost off the scale. The truth is neither of us is in a position to say with any confidence either what the outcome will be, or what it will take for either side to win the election. I think you're completely wrong that Trump won in 2016 because he had a strong message and the Dems didn't. It came down to several crucial states that went (in most cases narrowly) for Trump because frustrated working class voters felt that the Dems were no longer listening to them. That opinion was the consensus of a number of commentators at least on PBS and NPR as I recall, and I doubt it is too far off the mark.

IMO it's not necessary to separate Trump from his base to make him vulnerable, only from enough of the folks that took a chance on him that would normally vote D. He has been doing that steadily all by himself from the day he was inaugurated. The Dems may well nominate someone way far left of the mainstream and alienate enough of the electorate that Trump will still win. Even then it depends on many things - I  think a younger version of Sanders, with an established record, would have a strong chance of beating Trump. But there is no one today who fits that bill.

So I'm not going to try to prognosticate this one - with the changing demographics of the voting public, I think all bets are off.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 01:45:09 PM
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but your arrogance (and hubris) are almost off the scale.


Wow.  Arrogant?   Pot, meet kettle!

I think you're completely wrong that Trump won in 2016 because he had a strong message and the Dems didn't. It came down to several crucial states that went (in most cases narrowly) for Trump because frustrated working class voters felt that the Dems were no longer listening to them. That opinion was the consensus of a number of commentators at least on PBS and NPR as I recall, and I doubt it is too far off the mark.

You just touched on why Trump won those rust belt states in 2016, but you just can’t see it. Do you think his message resonated with those voters?  Do you think HRC’s lack of a message turned them to vote across party lines?

 Hillary's message was "Together Stronger".  And nothing else.  Trump's message was "Make America Great Again!", then he spent the time to detail how he would do it.  He emphasized on how bad trade deals cost us jobs, and how he planned to get those jobs back.  He spent a lot of time and energy reaching out to the average American, the ones that the democrats expected votes from, well, just because.

 Trump also had a message for the blacks.  That message was the democrats have strung you along for 50 years of promises, and never delivered.  I am going to work for you and your interest by bringing back jobs and bringing you to prosperity.  Then, he added, after 50 years of empty promises, what do you have to lose?  Give me a chance!

 And that message rattled dems to no end.  Don't remember it?



IMO it's not necessary to separate Trump from his base to make him vulnerable, only from enough of the folks that took a chance on him that would normally vote D. He has been doing that steadily all by himself from the day he was inaugurated. 

 Data says that's a wrong assumption.   



The Dems may well nominate someone way far left of the mainstream and alienate enough of the electorate that Trump will still win. Even then it depends on many things - I  think a younger version of Sanders, with an established record, would have a strong chance of beating Trump. But there is no one today who fits that bill.

So I'm not going to try to prognosticate this one - with the changing demographics of the voting public, I think all bets are off.

You personify exactly why the dems are in trouble right now.  Refusal to acknowledge lack of coherent message and you play right into the msm narrative, and as was brought up earlier, you won’t even take the time to challenge the msm narrative.


But please, let’s hope that all progressives keep going down this path.  The Democrats have been destroying each other and their party, and the chaos continues. 

Chaos will never win an election.

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 16, 2019, 01:48:00 PM
Bernie isn’t a racist who cares about himself and his family to the exclusion of all else.

Good grief. You’ve got to be kidding. Did you watch the SOTU address?  See the prisoners he got released?  You are still watching too much mainstream media.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 16, 2019, 02:49:55 PM
Bernie isn’t a racist who cares about himself and his family to the exclusion of all else.
I hear LOTS of people calling Trump a racist, but I can't point to anything he's done or said that is clearly racist.  Much of what people are calling racist are comments taken out of context. 

Caring about himself and his family is a trend commonly found in democrats and indeed all politicians.  See Clinton (both of them).  But how has he done this?  Sure, while in business, but what has he done along those lines since becoming president?  I do see him working hard for the American people.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 02:50:07 PM
Here's "racist" Trump.  These pics were before his presidential run.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.amz.mshcdn.com%2FehX-xz5n_cWdPO23eJbQs6yCp5c%3D%2Ffit-in%2F850x850%2Fhttp%253A%252F%252Fmashable.com%252Fwp-content%252Fgallery%252Fdonald-trump-new-york%252FGettyImages-97289540_master.jpg&f=1)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsmax.com%2FCMSPages%2FGetFile.aspx%3Fguid%3Dd93386d9-7501-42f8-be7a-c82d51176243%26SiteName%3DNewsmax%26maxsidesize%3D600&f=1)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newstandardpress.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F12%2FTrump-and-Jesse-Jackson.jpg&f=1)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2Fxq90%2F922%2F9UuPrZ.jpg&f=1)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.amz.mshcdn.com%2FehX-xz5n_cWdPO23eJbQs6yCp5c%3D%2Ffit-in%2F850x850%2Fhttp%253A%252F%252Fmashable.com%252Fwp-content%252Fgallery%252Fdonald-trump-new-york%252FGettyImages-97289540_master.jpg&f=1)
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 02:56:46 PM
Oh, and here's some awards "racist" Trump has won:

Humanitarian Award by the National Jewish Health (1976)
Tree of Life Award by the Jewish National Fund (1983)
Ellis Island Medal of Honor in celebration of "patriotism, tolerance, brotherhood and diversity" (1986)
Muhammad Ali Entrepreneur Award (2007)
Friends of Zion Award by The Friends of Zion Museum (2017)
Temple Coin featuring Trump (alongside King Cyrus) from the Mikdash Educational Center in honor of Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the country's capital. (2018)
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Steingar on March 16, 2019, 03:00:18 PM
After his reaction to the events in Charlotsville and to the tragedy in New Zealand (compared to his reaction to events in Pittsburg and Egypt) I think he is a pretty die hard anti Muslim. His attempts to stop Muslim immigration reinforce my view.  He was elected by lot of folks who got displaced from good jobs due to one reason or another, and not only has he helped none of them but hurt lots with his tariffs.  Like you guys he ignores anyone who says anything he doesn’t like. That bothers me a lot when those folks are intelligence or law enforcement professionals.  Every report out of his White House (including some serious heavy weight reporters) have indicated that it is as dysfunctional as a kindergarten without adult supervision. He cozies up to dictators while distancing himself (and us) from Western democracies. I honestly think he will be regarded by historians as the worst president in the history of the United States. I’d rather see anyone from this board, even Number 7, rather than him.

Right now his biggest achievement is his tax cut which took food and medicine from the poor to give tax cuts to the wealthy. He inherited a robust economy from his predecessor, and while he hasn’t yet bolluxed it, give him time.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 03:12:13 PM
. He cozies up to dictators while distancing himself (and us) from Western democracies.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wnd.com%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F03%2FObama-Farrakhan.jpg&f=1)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia2.s-nbcnews.com%2Fj%2Fnewscms%2F2015_40%2F1242316%2F150929-obama-raul-castro-02_da77d017537f22a7ada41983de87f9ae.nbcnews-fp-1200-800.jpg&f=1)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.csmonitor.com%2Fcsm%2F2013%2F03%2F0305-Venezuela_Hugo_Chavez.jpg%3Falias%3Dstandard_900x600&f=1)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2011%2F06%2F09%2Farticle-2001593-0C7DF0D200000578-312_634x363.jpg&f=1)

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anorak.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2FPA-7080413.jpg&f=1)

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 16, 2019, 03:27:58 PM
After his reaction to the events in Charlotsville and to the tragedy in New Zealand (compared to his reaction to events in Pittsburg and Egypt) I think he is a pretty die hard anti Muslim. His attempts to stop Muslim immigration reinforce my view.  He was elected by lot of folks who got displaced from good jobs due to one reason or another, and not only has he helped none of them but hurt lots with his tariffs.  Like you guys he ignores anyone who says anything he doesn’t like. That bothers me a lot when those folks are intelligence or law enforcement professionals.  Every report out of his White House (including some serious heavy weight reporters) have indicated that it is as dysfunctional as a kindergarten without adult supervision. He cozies up to dictators while distancing himself (and us) from Western democracies. I honestly think he will be regarded by historians as the worst president in the history of the United States. I’d rather see anyone from this board, even Number 7, rather than him.

Right now his biggest achievement is his tax cut which took food and medicine from the poor to give tax cuts to the wealthy. He inherited a robust economy from his predecessor, and while he hasn’t yet bolluxed it, give him time.

CNN chimes in yet again. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: jb1842 on March 16, 2019, 03:29:29 PM
Someone explain to me how all these retarded dems keep crying how foreigners (Russians) helped Trump steal the elections, but then want other foreigners (illegals) to vote in our elections.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on March 16, 2019, 03:33:24 PM
CNN chimes in yet again.
One would think a college professor would look around at some differing sources, yes. Taking into account the desperation of so many players to get POTUS removed, it’s fairly easy to spot the fakery.

I still say Steingar wants to be a conservative. He just can’t let go of the beliefs that currently define him, no matter how off the mark they are.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 16, 2019, 04:14:15 PM
After his reaction to the events in Charlotsville
I'll pick this one part to comment on, but the same analysis can be carried out throughout your response.  CNN has pushed, heavily, the narrative that Trump said that white nationalists are very good people.  They selectively edited stories and his speech to underscore that fact.  However, I urge you to read the full transcript of his remarks.  He said that there are very bad and violent people on both sides as well as very fine people on both sides.  He has condemned white nationalists several times regarding this event as well as many others.  Again, I urge you to check the whole facts and not just the edited story from one side or the other before making up your mind.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on March 16, 2019, 04:27:58 PM
Someone explain to me how all these retarded dems keep crying how foreigners (Russians) helped Trump steal the elections, but then want other foreigners (illegals) to vote in our elections.
All you have to do is remember that if they believe something, then it is true, even if it isn’t. It doesn’t matter if the two things conflict or even are polar opposites.

I once watched a talk on how to think like a liberal and it was exceedingly frightening to picture any of them in power ever again. They literally are in a reality of their own making.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 16, 2019, 04:33:47 PM
I'll pick this one part to comment on, but the same analysis can be carried out throughout your response.  CNN has pushed, heavily, the narrative that Trump said that white nationalists are very good people.  They selectively edited stories and his speech to underscore that fact.  However, I urge you to read the full transcript of his remarks.  He said that there are very bad and violent people on both sides as well as very fine people on both sides.  He has condemned white nationalists several times regarding this event as well as many others.  Again, I urge you to check the whole facts and not just the edited story from one side or the other before making up your mind.

Your post makes absolute sense to an objective person.  I admit I am right leaning, however, I have some Libertarian, and even classically Liberal beliefs.  Steingar has no desire to think outside of the CNN, and higher education Far Left bubble.  So why you make absolute sense, it will fall on deaf ears.  Unfortunately, much of the Left is exactly like him.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 16, 2019, 04:37:49 PM
After his reaction to the events in Charlotsville and to the tragedy in New Zealand (compared to his reaction to events in Pittsburg and Egypt) I think he is a pretty die hard anti Muslim. His attempts to stop Muslim immigration reinforce my view.

I think you're making the same mistake everyone is making about the guy in NZ too.  Trump isn't about hating Islam...the word fear is probably more appropriate.  The fear comes because they have made statements about their goals to take over countries by becoming the dominant population there.  It's part of a general distrust of immigrants who seem to want to make the US like the place they fled from.

That fear is probably a bit overblown right now - there are concentrations of Muslims, but it's not like they're electing people to Congress or anything.  And it will be a couple of decades before Islam passes Judaism as the second largest non-Christian religion in the US.  Probably more than a century before they become large enough to get enough votes to control governments, so who cares, right?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 16, 2019, 04:50:45 PM
Your post makes absolute sense to an objective person.  I admit I am right leaning, however, I have some Libertarian, and even classically Liberal beliefs.  Steingar has no desire to think outside of the CNN, and higher education Far Left bubble.  So why you make absolute sense, it will fall on deaf ears.  Unfortunately, much of the Left is exactly like him.
It's probably my own higher education training showing.  I try to be as objective as possible and collect as much evidence as I can before making up my mind.  I have friends on the rabid right and the rabid left (never in the same place at the same time!) and listen to their statements then try to find the full story.  Just like reviewing a research paper, trust but verify before saying, yeah that's true.

But you're right.  As the saying goes, trying to teach a pig to sing wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 16, 2019, 06:02:06 PM
I'll pick this one part to comment on, but the same analysis can be carried out throughout your response.  CNN has pushed, heavily, the narrative that Trump said that white nationalists are very good people.  They selectively edited stories and his speech to underscore that fact.  However, I urge you to read the full transcript of his remarks.  He said that there are very bad and violent people on both sides as well as very fine people on both sides.  He has condemned white nationalists several times regarding this event as well as many others.  Again, I urge you to check the whole facts and not just the edited story from one side or the other before making up your mind.

What "very fine people" do you think he could have been referring to on the White Nationalist side?

Yes, after considerable pushback he did condemn white nationalism unequivocally. What took him so long?

(For clarity: I don't know whether Trump is a white nationalist or not. It is very possible that he simply thinks that a significant fraction of his base are white nationalists, and his instinct is to avoid alienating any part of his base. But even that would be pretty damning IMO.)
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 16, 2019, 06:04:19 PM
What "very fine people" do you think he could have been referring to on the White Nationalist side?

Yes, after considerable pushback he did condemn white nationalism unequivocally. What took him so long?

(For clarity: I don't know whether Trump is a white nationalist or not. It is very possible that he simply thinks that a significant fraction of his base are white nationalists, and his instinct is to avoid alienating any part of his base. But even that would be pretty damning IMO.)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Br5rWtM1QiYBa/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 16, 2019, 06:52:36 PM
What "very fine people" do you think he could have been referring to on the White Nationalist side?

Yes, after considerable pushback he did condemn white nationalism unequivocally. What took him so long?

(For clarity: I don't know whether Trump is a white nationalist or not. It is very possible that he simply thinks that a significant fraction of his base are white nationalists, and his instinct is to avoid alienating any part of his base. But even that would be pretty damning IMO.)

What is a white nationalist?  KKK member?  Nazi?  Or maybe someone that likes and supports America and is a patriot?  What is a BLM or ANTIFA member?  Do they support the United States, or do they promote violence against people in which they disagree?  Are they good people?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 16, 2019, 07:03:58 PM
After his reaction to the events in Charlotsville and to the tragedy in New Zealand (compared to his reaction to events in Pittsburg and Egypt) I think he is a pretty die hard anti Muslim. His attempts to stop Muslim immigration reinforce my view.  He was elected by lot of folks who got displaced from good jobs due to one reason or another, and not only has he helped none of them but hurt lots with his tariffs.  Like you guys he ignores anyone who says anything he doesn’t like. That bothers me a lot when those folks are intelligence or law enforcement professionals.  Every report out of his White House (including some serious heavy weight reporters) have indicated that it is as dysfunctional as a kindergarten without adult supervision. He cozies up to dictators while distancing himself (and us) from Western democracies. I honestly think he will be regarded by historians as the worst president in the history of the United States. I’d rather see anyone from this board, even Number 7, rather than him.

Right now his biggest achievement is his tax cut which took food and medicine from the poor to give tax cuts to the wealthy. He inherited a robust economy from his predecessor, and while he hasn’t yet bolluxed it, give him time.

Your view of reality is like a photographic negative of mine.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 16, 2019, 07:30:19 PM
What "very fine people" do you think he could have been referring to on the White Nationalist side?
There wasn't a white nationalist side.  There was a side who wanted the statues down and a side that wanted the statues up.  The side that wanted the statues up was divided into good people and white nationalists.  The side that wanted the statues down was divided into a group that wanted violence and the side that wanted to not preserve history.  So yes, there were good people on both sides.  There were bad people on both sides.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 16, 2019, 07:31:57 PM
There wasn't a white nationalist side.  There was a side who wanted the statues down and a side that wanted the statues up.  The side that wanted the statues up was divided into good people and white nationalists.  The side that wanted the statues down was divided into a group that wanted violence and the side that wanted to not preserve history.  So yes, there were good people on both sides.  There were bad people on both sides.

THIS THIS THIS for gods sake what’s wrong with you people?! Quit watching CNN!!!
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on March 16, 2019, 08:26:24 PM
There wasn't a white nationalist side.  There was a side who wanted the statues down and a side that wanted the statues up.  The side that wanted the statues up was divided into good people and white nationalists.  The side that wanted the statues down was divided into a group that wanted violence and the side that wanted to not preserve history.  So yes, there were good people on both sides.  There were bad people on both sides.

There was most certainly a white nationalist side. Sure there were people that were just peacefully protesting the statues being taken down, and it's possible those were the "fine people" Trump was referring to - that's not totally clear. But regardless, he totally failed to acknowledge that the Unite the Right group was the main instigator of the violence. So he was strongly criticized for those remarks (a couple of days after the incident) as strongly as he was for his first rather vague statement. And not just by the "leftist media", but by people across the political spectrum... including Graham and Rubio.

Not counting the white nationalists themselves of course, and David Duke even tweeted a reminder that it was white nationalists that put him in the White House. If he didn't believe that was true, why was he so reluctant to unequivocally condemn white nationalism? What took him so long?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 16, 2019, 08:45:54 PM
significant fraction

What level would you suggest becomes a "significant fraction"?  1/2?  1/4th?  1/20th?

Also, what is the source of your numbers on how many white supremacists there are who support the presdient, how many people in general make up the president's base and then white supremacists as a fraction of the presdient's base?  Do you have actual numbers or are you just disparaging anyone who supports the president as an offhanded insult?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 17, 2019, 03:09:38 AM
There wasn't a white nationalist side.  There was a side who wanted the statues down and a side that wanted the statues up.  The side that wanted the statues up was divided into good people and white nationalists.  The side that wanted the statues down was divided into a group that wanted violence and the side that wanted to not preserve history.  So yes, there were good people on both sides.  There were bad people on both sides.

I think you summed it up well.  If there were a significant faction of White Supremacists (I don't think the term White Nationalist is accurate, nor valid) we'd be hearing about them daily in the Media which is 95% or more LEFTIST.  They already promote the concept that White Supremacists exist in large numbers yet there are HARDLY EVER any incidents to report.

When was the last incident of violence in the U.S. by a White Supremacist? 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 17, 2019, 03:18:28 AM
What level would you suggest becomes a "significant fraction"?  1/2?  1/4th?  1/20th?

Also, what is the source of your numbers on how many white supremacists there are who support the presdient, how many people in general make up the president's base and then white supremacists as a fraction of the presdient's base?  Do you have actual numbers or are you just disparaging anyone who supports the president as an offhanded insult?

I believe that the best estimate would be 1/1024...
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 17, 2019, 03:51:14 AM
Back to the orignal question of the thread; "Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?", here is one answer.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/jewish-voters-are-furious-at-dems-defense-of-ilhan-omar

Quote
Jewish voters furious at Democrats’ defense of Rep. Ilhan Omar say they’re done with the party that has held their support for generations.

“We felt we had a home there,” said Mark Schwartz, the Democratic deputy mayor of solidly blue Teaneck, NJ. “And now we feel like we have to check our passports.”


Jordan Manor of Manhattan, who calls himself a “gay Jewish Israeli-American,” laments, “The party I thought cared about me seems to disregard me when it comes to my Jewish identity.”
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 17, 2019, 05:17:36 AM
There was most certainly a white nationalist side. Sure there were people that were just peacefully protesting the statues being taken down, and it's possible those were the "fine people" Trump was referring to - that's not totally clear. But regardless, he totally failed to acknowledge that the Unite the Right group was the main instigator of the violence. So he was strongly criticized for those remarks (a couple of days after the incident) as strongly as he was for his first rather vague statement. And not just by the "leftist media", but by people across the political spectrum... including Graham and Rubio.

Not counting the white nationalists themselves of course, and David Duke even tweeted a reminder that it was white nationalists that put him in the White House. If he didn't believe that was true, why was he so reluctant to unequivocally condemn white nationalism? What took him so long?

Wow. Here’s Duke’s tweet:


Quote
David Duke
@DrDavidDuke
 I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists.

White Americans, not white nationalists. It’s technically true, given that 90% of the black vote did not go to Trump. So unless you think all white Americans are White Nationalists Duke said no such thing. But misquoting him like that sure helps paint all whites as racist bigots. Thanks.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 17, 2019, 05:25:37 AM
Wow. Here’s Duke’s tweet:


White Americans, not white nationalists. It’s technically true, given that 90% of the black vote did not go to Trump. So unless you think all white Americans are White Nationalists Duke said no such thing. But misquoting him like that sure helps paint all whites as racist bigots. Thanks.

If the Left doesn't misquote, i.e. LIE, then they rarely have any argument at all.  Yes, White Americans are being demonized by the Democrats, and Media.  Patriotism in America is now looked at as "White Nationalism", which is a thinly veiled attempt to call us Nazis, and Fascists.

The Left hates U.S. SOVEREIGNTY.  It is now considered "Racist" to be nationalistic, patriotic, and want to promote the interests of United States citizens.  Globalism is their goal.

Tell me I'm wrong Azure, and Steingar.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 17, 2019, 06:32:18 AM
WARNING:  The following link contains factual information not reported by the MSM.   Reading may trigger liberal/progressives.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/white-nationalism-have-very-very-serious-problems-trump_2841081.html

Quote
President Trump said that white nationalism is espoused by a small group of people who have “very serious problems,” on Friday, March 15.

He made the comments after a mass shooting happened earlier that day in central Christchurch, New Zealand, where a white supremacist allegedly killed 49 people and wounded another 48 at two mosques.

Trump rejected that white nationalism is a rising threat around the world, but said its followers have “serious problems.”

“I think it’s a small group of people that have very, very serious problems,” he said. “I guess if you look at what happened in New Zealand, perhaps that’s the case. I don’t know enough about it yet. They’re just learning about the person and the people involved. But it’s certainly a terrible thing. Terrible thing.”
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Username on March 17, 2019, 08:38:39 AM
I've seen nothing in the mainstream media on this.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/7/david-duke-praises-rep-ilhan-omar/
Quote
In a Thursday podcast at his site, the former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard spoke out strongly in favor of the Muslim Congresswoman who has accused Jewish lawmakers of dual loyalty, attributed support for Israel to foreign money, and said Israel has “hypnotized” the world.

“By defiance to Z.O.G. Ilhan Omar is NOW the most important Member of the US Congress!” Mr. Duke wrote on his site, using the acronym for “Zionist Occupation Government,” a term anti-Semites use to refer to the U.S. government as secretly controlled by Jews.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 18, 2019, 05:48:28 PM
https://www.wnd.com/2019/03/limbaugh-real-reason-trump-soaring-in-battleground-states/

Quote
A new polls shows President Trump’s popularity is soaring in the key battleground states of Pennsylvania, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin.

He leads a generic Democratic nominee in those states 46 percent to 40 percent, according to a Wall Street Journal survey.

Talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh told his listeners Monday it’s not hard to understand why.

Voters in those states like the “ongoing economic renaissance” they are experiencing.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on March 18, 2019, 05:50:27 PM
https://www.wnd.com/2019/02/trump-approval-hits-52-critics-beside-themselves/
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 18, 2019, 06:06:32 PM
Actually that's an idea I've never considered because it usually means taking a vote away from someone I'd prefer. If there is a 3rd party candidate on the ballot that I like, that is something I might just do. Might be the first time I've ever voted Libertarian...
I learned my lesson. I gave my protest vote to Ross Perot in 1992.  In fact 20 million of us did. He still didn’t carry a single state, so Bill Clinton won with 43% of the popular vote. Let that sink in.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 18, 2019, 06:09:45 PM
I learned my lesson. I gave my protest vote to Ross Perot in 1992.  In fact 20 million of us did. He still didn’t carry a single state, so Bill Clinton won with 43% of the popular vote. Let that sink in.

Yeah me too. :(
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 18, 2019, 06:16:42 PM
Actually that's an idea I've never considered because it usually means taking a vote away from someone I'd prefer. If there is a 3rd party candidate on the ballot that I like, that is something I might just do. Might be the first time I've ever voted Libertarian...

nddons reminded me that I wanted to respond to this to... yes.... come over to our side!  The water's great!  :D

On the other hand, it is a wasted vote.  It pains me every election, wanting to vote Libertarian but having to vote Republican just to keep the Democraps from winning.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 18, 2019, 06:22:37 PM
Bernie isn’t a racist who cares about himself and his family to the exclusion of all else.
Liberals like you throw the term “racist” around so much with no proof or justification that you have rendered the term meaningless. If everything and everyone is racist, no one is racist. Congratulations. You have inoculated Trump from ever being a racist.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: asechrest on March 18, 2019, 06:28:40 PM
I learned my lesson. I gave my protest vote to Ross Perot in 1992.  In fact 20 million of us did. He still didn’t carry a single state, so Bill Clinton won with 43% of the popular vote. Let that sink in.

I gave my vote to a third party candidate in 2016. In fact, many of my side did. And Trump won the election. Let that sink in.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 18, 2019, 06:54:47 PM
What "very fine people" do you think he could have been referring to on the White Nationalist side?

Yes, after considerable pushback he did condemn white nationalism unequivocally. What took him so long?

(For clarity: I don't know whether Trump is a white nationalist or not. It is very possible that he simply thinks that a significant fraction of his base are white nationalists, and his instinct is to avoid alienating any part of his base. But even that would be pretty damning IMO.)
Azure, I’ve always had a high opinion of your contributions, by this one is a huge disappointment, and doesn’t reflect your track record of thinking freely.

There were not just two sides in Charlottesville. There were people - southerners - who truly were against the destruction or removal of an historic statue for the appeasement of the mob.

A mob has no right to select an object of their ire and then destroy something that is not theirs, and that has meaning to many people. The Taliban did shit like this, not Americans. There were good Americans fighting for that every reason in Charlottesville. Those are good people.  Were there white nationalists there?  Certainly. Were everyone who didn’t want to see the statue destroyed white nationalists?  Absolutely fucking not.

Your timeline of considerable pushback is a crock of shit. I heard exactly what he said on the day it happened, and he said what a President should say. The fact that some people like you twisted his words or imparted meaning that wasn’t factually accurate is why he was forced to try and correct the record that was purposefully being re-written to appease the mob.

“...he simply thinks that a significant fraction of his base are white nationalists...”

I’m sorry, but you are part of the problem. And by the way, fuck off. I’m so tired of being demonized for supporting this president, and being lumped in with the worst groups people like you can think of.

When the left gets triggered because a MAGA hat is equated to a dog whistle of white nationalist, they can all fuck off.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 18, 2019, 07:02:43 PM
I learned my lesson. I gave my protest vote to Ross Perot in 1992.  In fact 20 million of us did. He still didn’t carry a single state, so Bill Clinton won with 43% of the popular vote. Let that sink in.
Times were different and the candidates were different.  If someone truly cannot bring themselves to vote for one of the top two, then I think they should vote for someone else rather than not vote at all.  Of course I would prefer they vote for my candidate, but I'd rather they throw their vote away than vote for the guy I don't like.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 18, 2019, 07:10:15 PM
The real difference between a liberal and a conservative is how deeply delicious liberals think the lies of their masters are. When cnn lies out their ashes leftists like mikey and azure wrap their minds around the lie without the slightest examination and then run out and repeat half truths, quaterntruths, or outright 100% lies because they believe their lies should be held as the gospel.

Take any issue humped by liberals and you find exactly the same thing.

It spent matter if its the mage crock of shit, the white supreme I post crock of shit, the Trump is a racist, crock of utter bullshit, or any of their other lies. To be a liberal is to embrace what you know is utterly untrue and repeat it to yourself until you embrace it so closely that you begintld emend everybody repeat your lie, or be labo3d a racist.

It took some time, but azure outed herself completely, just like others who came here pretending to think for themselves.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on March 24, 2019, 08:27:10 AM
Well this youtube explains a lot. The first 9 minutes will do. So the super Orthodox Jews are actually against the state of Israel. Makes total sense they’d vote Democrat. But as far as I know they aren’t in the majority.

Also here’s a great article going over the history especially the Soviet Union’s anti-semitism. The USSR’s anti-Zionism aligns with the orthodox Jews’ but for political reasons, not religious reasons. And it led to a lot of anti-Semitic persecution in the Soviet Union.

https://forward.com/opinion/420508/the-ussr-was-famous-for-state-sponsored-anti-zionism-is-america-heading-in/

Quote
This episode from my Soviet life, along with many others, has been rising up in my memory lately as the progressive wing’s anti-Zionist discourse goes mainstream in the Democratic Party, my own political home over the nearly 30 years of my American life. In the words of the young, idealistic activists, I hear word for word some of the slogans I used to hear back in the USSR. And it’s deeply disconcerting.
Read more: https://forward.com/opinion/420508/the-ussr-was-famous-for-state-sponsored-anti-zionism-is-america-heading-in/

 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 24, 2019, 06:59:54 PM
I gave my vote to a third party candidate in 2016. In fact, many of my side did. And Trump won the election. Let that sink in.

Did the state you were in go Republican unexpected?

Trump won the election because he made promises to the rust belt and just barely enough middle of the road Independents and Democrats voted for him.

Anyone think he can repeat that again?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 24, 2019, 09:09:05 PM
Did the state you were in go Republican unexpected?

Trump won the election because he made promises to the rust belt and just barely enough middle of the road Independents and Democrats voted for him.

Anyone think he can repeat that again?
Yes, I do. My concern about Trump in 2016 was that he talked a good game, but never really did anything to advance conservatism.

After two years, Trump has exceeded my wildest expectations, and is the most conservative President I have seen in my lifetime.

If he continues on this path, he will exceed the conservative reforms of Ronald Reagan.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 25, 2019, 02:20:47 AM
You think he will win the rust belt again?

Democrats there are woke. A lot didn’t vote because Hillary was a lock. Trump made a lot of promises there that really haven’t been entirely kept. Government Motors is shutting an assembly line and every worker there is looking at the president and saying “Why didn’t you save my job?”

The economy of the region hasn’t changed all that much and it needed more than talk and promises there.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on March 25, 2019, 05:36:58 AM
You think he will win the rust belt again?

Democrats there are woke. A lot didn’t vote because Hillary was a lock. Trump made a lot of promises there that really haven’t been entirely kept. Government Motors is shutting an assembly line and every worker there is looking at the president and saying “Why didn’t you save my job?”

The economy of the region hasn’t changed all that much and it needed more than talk and promises there.
In true liberal fashion you only look for and repeat the bad news.  Maybe you should do some searching about the Steel industry and other automotive related stuff.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 25, 2019, 06:11:07 AM
In true liberal fashion you only look for and repeat the bad news.  Maybe you should do some searching about the Steel industry and other automotive related stuff.

Last fall, Democrats won a net 12 seats in the rust belt, gained Senate seats and elected Democrat governors over Republican incumbents.  Many districts throughout the rust belt flipped blue.

I'm not considering whether or not the economy is doing great.  I'm looking at voting patterns and woke democrats in these states.  The presidential race was determined by a lax Democrat turnout + some defections, the last election was about a great Democrat turnout.  Do you think that in 2 years enough people are going to say "Oh, that Trump made our economy so much better, let's vote for him now"?  Compare that number of people vs Democrats who say "Trump stole the last election I will NOT let him steal this one too!"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-07/stinging-defeats-in-the-rust-belt-flash-a-2020-warning-for-trump

IMO, trying to run the tables there again is a fools errand.  Trump won these states by a combined total of about 80,000 votes.  There will be far more than 80,000 Democrats voting who didn't two years ago.

My takeway is that unless the president can secure some solid states elsewhere, the electoral numbers look pretty poor for him in 2020.

And BTW, that's moderate liberal, with a lower case L.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 25, 2019, 08:02:42 AM
As Stan has reminded me, the brain dead liberal/progressives (Democrat Communists) will cut off their nose to spite their face because they are idiots.  The country is doing well.  Trump is doing a good job, but the Communists will want to screw the country because they just can. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 25, 2019, 10:05:10 AM
I think if we're honest, most of them are not doing it because they want to destroy things.  Most have a sincere, if misinformed, belief that what they're doing will result in something better, just like we do. 

Where the problem comes about is when both sides stop realizing that they both want better, quit talking to each other and drift apart on what "better" means and why.  That is the state that we've reached in this country.    As far as the different sides go, I understand what Democrats are looking for, but they're wrong about how the end state will happen.  We have multiple historical examples of their goals failing, of dictatorial rulers maintaining power through fear, intimidation and when necessary, murder, and then eventually the entire system collapsing.  They believe earnestly, but in ignorance.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 25, 2019, 11:18:02 AM
Did the state you were in go Republican unexpected?

Trump won the election because he made promises to the rust belt and just barely enough middle of the road Independents and Democrats voted for him.

Anyone think he can repeat that again?
I certainly do.  He has kept more promises than any politician since Reagan.  You can listen to the MSM preach otherwise till the cows come home, but that doesn't make them, or you, right.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on March 25, 2019, 11:19:56 AM
I think if we're honest, most of them are not doing it because they want to destroy things.  Most have a sincere, if misinformed, belief that what they're doing will result in something better, just like we do. 
I don't think they are doing stupid shit because they want to destroy things either.  Well, except for trump and our Republican form of government.

They are doing destructive shit because they feel the ends justify the means, and they are perfectly willing to hurt the country to regain their power and get rid of Trump.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 25, 2019, 02:17:13 PM
I don't think they are doing stupid shit because they want to destroy things either.  Well, except for trump and our Republican form of government.

They are doing destructive shit because they feel the ends justify the means, and they are perfectly willing to hurt the country to regain their power and get rid of Trump.

Exactly.  And it is up to us now. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on March 25, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
See, and I think they don’t view it as destructive.

I was thinking more along the lines of the millennials being misled to socialism, but I think it’s true of TDS too.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on March 25, 2019, 06:08:20 PM
I think if we're honest, most of them are not doing it because they want to destroy things.  Most have a sincere, if misinformed, belief that what they're doing will result in something better, just like we do. 

I don't believethat for a second.

The party of infantcide and ANTIFA are in no way sincere about anything but the destruction of America as we know it.
Title: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on March 25, 2019, 07:41:34 PM
You think he will win the rust belt again?

Democrats there are woke. A lot didn’t vote because Hillary was a lock. Trump made a lot of promises there that really haven’t been entirely kept. Government Motors is shutting an assembly line and every worker there is looking at the president and saying “Why didn’t you save my job?”

The economy of the region hasn’t changed all that much and it needed more than talk and promises there.
Yes. I live in the rust belt. Most areas in the rust belt are having trouble finding qualified workers to fill the jobs that have been created under Trump.

Promises not entirely kept?  Who the fuck’s fault is that?  Trump has been been battling obstructionist democrats, which is a given, but also intransigent republicans who prefer the status quo and will not accept someone who rejects the swamp.

Washington had a weak and sick Army when he crossed the Delaware River at Christmas for the battle of Trenton, but at least his soldiers rowed the boat in the right direction. Trump has no such benefit. He is rowing this boat alone.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on March 25, 2019, 08:34:31 PM
CNN chimes in yet again.

By Odin's beard, what a fucking moron!
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on March 26, 2019, 02:55:43 AM
Yes. I live in the rust belt. Most areas in the rust belt are having trouble finding qualified workers to fill the jobs that have been created under Trump.

Promises not entirely kept?  Who the fuck’s fault is that?  Trump has been been battling obstructionist democrats, which is a given, but also intransigent republicans who prefer the status quo and will not accept someone who rejects the swamp.

Washington had a weak and sick Army when he crossed the Delaware River at Christmas for the battle of Trenton, but at least his soldiers rowed the boat in the right direction. Trump has no such benefit. He is rowing this boat alone.

I live about 20 minutes drive from Valley Forge.  People, even here don't care about what happened in Trenton or Valley Forge, or Brandywine where the Continental Army was defeated which allowed the British to occupy Philadelphia.  Meaningless, even to those who live here, now voting Democrat women into office all spouting Soros funded talking points. 

My point is that people care more about their BMW than they do about their country, and their freedom.  It is taken for granted, and the Democrats and the establishment Republicans are the new Royalty, and both enemies of freedom, and liberty.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on June 05, 2019, 10:01:37 AM
One of my biggest problems in life is that I love irony.  And there is something wonderfully ironic in this thread.  The hallmark and necessary condition of "Communism" is one party rule with suppression of all other political activity.  There are states with very solid one party rule, and they are all very very firmly in the control of the GOP.


"ALL"?  I don't think so.  Perhaps you should check out Massachusetts. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on June 05, 2019, 09:50:51 PM
What level would you suggest becomes a "significant fraction"?  1/2?  1/4th?  1/20th?

Also, what is the source of your numbers on how many white supremacists there are who support the presdient, how many people in general make up the president's base and then white supremacists as a fraction of the presdient's base?  Do you have actual numbers or are you just disparaging anyone who supports the president as an offhanded insult?

This is the first I'm seeing this response since someone revived the thread, and it was a while ago... but I'm pretty sure you quoted me out of context. I never said a significant fraction of Trump's base were white supremacists. I said he might *think* they are, or people sympathetic to them, and so believe he needs to pander to them.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 06, 2019, 03:45:52 AM
This is the first I'm seeing this response since someone revived the thread, and it was a while ago... but I'm pretty sure you quoted me out of context. I never said a significant fraction of Trump's base were white supremacists. I said he might *think* they are, or people sympathetic to them, and so believe he needs to pander to them.

    Who are these "white supremacist" groups that the President supposedly panders too?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on June 06, 2019, 06:27:54 AM
There are very few "White Supremacists".  I am assuming people think it is KKK and Neo Nazis who compromise this group.  They are so few in number, that their voting block is totally irrelevant.  Yes, the MEDIA and the Dems tell you they are a significant prescience,.  They are NOT. 

However, this doesn't stop the Media and Democrats from using that to accuse Trump of being RACIST which is what they do with everybody in which they disagree.  This is typical petty politics. 

Now, the more recent term is "White Nationalist".  This is an attempt to paint people that are patriotic and want to put America first as also Racist.  It is all the Left has.  Well that and other Identity Politics. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 06, 2019, 06:53:32 AM
Agreed. 

The KKK is a democrat started and operated organization.  Very small in numbers now, but their roots and ideology is very firmly in the Democrats.

Nazi stands for “National Socialist”.   I don’t know any conservatives or republicans that support anything socialist.   Again, this group falls into the democrat camp.

Other hate groups such as ANTIFA and BLM are firmly in the democrat ideology.

We keep hearing the msm point to “White Nationalist”.  They never identify who these groups are. They keep attempting (lamely) to connect the President to such groups, yet they can’t provide any evidence.

 It’s the democrat version of the boogeyman. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on June 06, 2019, 10:07:08 PM
We keep hearing the msm point to “White Nationalist”.  They never identify who these groups are. They keep attempting (lamely) to connect the President to such groups, yet they can’t provide any evidence.

 It’s the democrat version of the boogeyman.

I don't think so. We all saw footage of the Unite The Right movement marching and surrounding peaceful protestors in Charlottesville, and in the wake of that, Frontline did a piece on White Nationalists that was quite chilling. Their reporter basically stalked one or two of them and even did some phone interviews. Their aim is to rid America of nonwhite people by any means necessary. Do you seriously not believe these people exist?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on June 07, 2019, 03:21:57 AM
I don't think so. We all saw footage of the Unite The Right movement marching and surrounding peaceful protestors in Charlottesville, and in the wake of that, Frontline did a piece on White Nationalists that was quite chilling. Their reporter basically stalked one or two of them and even did some phone interviews. Their aim is to rid America of nonwhite people by any means necessary. Do you seriously not believe these people exist?

Of course they exist, just like blacks exist who want to rid the world of whites. But you’ll not see the media doing stories on them. There are bigots and sociopaths in every race.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 07, 2019, 04:07:10 AM
I don't think so. We all saw footage of the Unite The Right movement marching and surrounding peaceful protestors in Charlottesville, and in the wake of that, Frontline did a piece on White Nationalists that was quite chilling. Their reporter basically stalked one or two of them and even did some phone interviews. Their aim is to rid America of nonwhite people by any means necessary. Do you seriously not believe these people exist?

 Oh, they exist, just not in the numbers the MSM want you to believe.   Rush nails it in her response.  Take a look at hate groups such as BLM.  You don't see the MSM giving them coverage.  I could name several black hate groups and their crimes, but the MSM chooses to ignore them.

 But back to my original question:  You named "Unite the Right" as a "White Nationalist" group.  I have looked and researched and I can't find anything on the President supporting them.  I can't find anything on the President "pandering" to them.   In fact, I can't find where the President has supported or backed any group that is considered "white nationalist".   

 But what I do find is several left wing news outlets that are pumping stories, doctoring footage and sound bites in order to make it appear the President "panders" to them.

 The democrat party are the masters of projection.  The democrat party has had a long association with white nationalist and other hate groups. All anyone need do is a bit of history research to see the origins of the KKK. And it's not conservative.



Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on June 07, 2019, 04:24:44 AM
Of course they exist, just like blacks exist who want to rid the world of whites. But you’ll not see the media doing stories on them. There are bigots and sociopaths in every race.

I believe the Black Community in the U.S. is more racist than many, even within their own community.  Lighter skinned blacks are prejudiced against darker skin Blacks.  Plus many if not most have a chip on their shoulder about "WHITEY".  This has been perpetuated by Black community leaders (Community Organizers, wink, wink), and also White Liberal/Progressives in order to use the Black community for their own purposes. 

Yes, there are White bigots and racists also, and I have no time for them either. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 07, 2019, 04:34:39 AM
Racism would not be such an issue in this country, but we have a progressive democrat party and their MSM continually stocking the fire and then using projection in an attempt to make conservatives look bad.  Again, the democrats are just using the blacks for their purpose of achieving more power.

 Don't believe me?  Then go see what the democrats do to any black that is a conservative, or any black that says anything to oppose the democrat/progressive agenda.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: jb1842 on June 07, 2019, 06:11:49 AM
I believe the Black Community in the U.S. is more racist than many, even within their own community.  Lighter skinned blacks are prejudiced against darker skin Blacks.  Plus many if not most have a chip on their shoulder about "WHITEY".  This has been perpetuated by Black community leaders (Community Organizers, wink, wink), and also White Liberal/Progressives in order to use the Black community for their own purposes. 

Yes, there are White bigots and racists also, and I have no time for them either.

Working in law enforcement, I have seen the hate the black community has for one another, especially those who have become successful in something that isn't music or sports. We had a black judge who was someone who I respected very much. Grew up in the poor, black neighborhoods, worked full-time while going to school. Ended up retiring as federal district court judge. But so many times after he sentenced a black person to prison, and that person didn't like the sentence, all of a sudden the judge was an "Uncle Tom" and an "Oreo". The black community are their own worst enemy.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on June 07, 2019, 06:51:26 AM
I don't think so. We all saw footage of the Unite The Right movement marching and surrounding peaceful protestors in Charlottesville, and in the wake of that, Frontline did a piece on White Nationalists that was quite chilling. Their reporter basically stalked one or two of them and even did some phone interviews. Their aim is to rid America of nonwhite people by any means necessary. Do you seriously not believe these people exist?
Do YOU seriously think that anyone on this forum believes they don't exist?  Of course they exist.  Just like my idiot brother in law exists.  But they are not representative of anyone except themselves, and they are relatively few.  But the MSM wants you to believe all the rest of us (conservatives) are just like them so they can get people like you to hate us too.  I hope you are too smart to fall for that.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on June 07, 2019, 07:17:18 AM
Working in law enforcement, I have seen the hate the black community has for one another, especially those who have become successful in something that isn't music or sports. We had a black judge who was someone who I respected very much. Grew up in the poor, black neighborhoods, worked full-time while going to school. Ended up retiring as federal district court judge. But so many times after he sentenced a black person to prison, and that person didn't like the sentence, all of a sudden the judge was an "Uncle Tom: and an "Oreo". The black community are their own worst enemy.

That’s what Paul Butler, a black prosecutor, says in his book “Let’s Get Free: A Hip-Hop Theory of Justice”.  He says that when blacks started becoming judges and prosecutors and defense attorneys, people thought that would be a good thing, that it would be more just to have blacks rather than whites involved in meting out justice to blacks. But he said it backfired. The professionals tended to distance themselves from the defendants. They came across as “good” blacks, and the “bad” ones hate them even more than they hate white judges and lawyers.

Spoiler alert: Butler’s main idea in this book is jury nullification. It’s the best way we can fight back against the insanely unjust drug laws in the U.S. resulting in more non-volient incarcerations than any other country; absolutely shameful for the “land of the free”.

Ironically, it’s a cause Trump is fighting for, and was a Bernie Sanders campaign plank. Where are all the socialists and the liberals and the left wing media praising Trump for releasing non-violent offenders? Crickets.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on June 07, 2019, 07:27:05 AM
Do YOU seriously think that anyone on this forum believes they don't exist?  Of course they exist.  Just like my idiot brother in law exists.  But they are not representative of anyone except themselves, and they are relatively few.  But the MSM wants you to believe all the rest of us (conservatives) are just like them so they can get people like you to hate us too.  I hope you are too smart to fall for that.

They are a tiny minority and always have been. The size of the KKK has always been blown out of proportion by the FBI and the media and I got that from a liberal researcher. But today the media implies fully half the country (those that don’t vote Democrat) are racist white supremacists.

A reporter on the radio yesterday was talking about the Mexican border. She said according to mainstream media everyone in Texas is a white redneck racist trying to keep brown people from crossing the border, but the reality is a large portion of the border agents are Hispanic themselves. Many Hispanic citizens in the border states are opposed to illegal immigration. It is far from a racist issue, it is an economic and resource and crime issue.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: bflynn on June 07, 2019, 09:07:45 AM
The Klan is dead.  The SPLC - which is about as liberal as they come - estimates 5-8000 members, but not in a unified organization.  Plus those who are members are not the kind of Klansman that you think of.  They aren't burning crosses, they're carrying tiki torches. 

There is no national Klan, there are lots of little regional groups, some of whom view the others are invalid.  That isn't to say that they're gone, but I cannot see any event that would cause them to resurge.  Could happen, I just cannot see it.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on June 07, 2019, 09:26:59 AM
There are no longer any real organized Neo Nazi groups either yet they media and Democrats would have you think they are hiding around every corner, and that they and the KKK caused the Charlottesville crap.  They got a lot of mileage out of that one. 

I will say this, for a while there ANTIFA (true fascists) and BLM were lighting things up, but you don't hear much about them any longer.  I wonder if the people funding them wanted to quiet things down in the run up to 2020?
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 07, 2019, 10:01:55 AM
There are no longer any real organized Neo Nazi groups either yet they media and Democrats would have you think they are hiding around every corner, and that they and the KKK caused the Charlottesville crap.  They got a lot of mileage out of that one. 

I will say this, for a while there ANTIFA (true fascists) and BLM were lighting things up, but you don't hear much about them any longer.  I wonder if the people funding them wanted to quiet things down in the run up to 2020?

During 2016 we had the democrat VP candidate's son actively participating in ANTIFA.   And the MSM covered it up.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on June 07, 2019, 10:21:10 AM
During 2016 we had the democrat VP candidate's son actively participating in ANTIFA.   And the MSM covered it up.

Is this the incident?  No mention of ANTIFA.

Quote
(CNN)Linwood Michael Kaine, a son of Virginia senator and former vice presidential candidate Tim Kaine, faces misdemeanor charges in Minnesota after an incident at a pro-Donald Trump rally in March.
Kaine, 24, was charged Friday by prosecutors in St. Paul with fleeing on foot, concealing identity in a public place, and obstructing the legal process by interfering with a peace officer.
 
The obstruction charge is a gross misdemeanor, which carries a possible sentence of up to one year in prison and a fine of as much as $3,000.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/26/politics/tim-kaine-son-charged/index.html

Oh, wait. You said 2016.  This guy must make a habit of this crap. 

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 07, 2019, 10:38:16 AM
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/video-tim-kaine-defends-his-antifa-son-in-heated-confrontation/
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on June 07, 2019, 11:40:31 AM
Tim Kaine is a piece of sh*t.  He disgusts me almost as much as Hillary.  Virginian certainly has become radicalized since the huge growth of Norther Virginia controlling the entire state.  Thank the huge growth of the Federal Government and all their contractors around D.C.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: azure on June 17, 2019, 06:39:41 AM
They are a tiny minority and always have been. The size of the KKK has always been blown out of proportion by the FBI and the media and I got that from a liberal researcher. But today the media implies fully half the country (those that don’t vote Democrat) are racist white supremacists.

I guess it depends on who you listen to, or read. NPR and PBS certainly don't imply that, not as a rule, anyway.

Certainly hate groups are a minority in this country. I never said otherwise. But white nationalist hate groups have always tried to claim Trump's victory as a plus for their cause, and Trump has never been very quick to disown them. That is my main point, that he doesn't seem to see moral leadership on issues like that as important. It's a blind spot of his that imo weakens his presidency.

We've seen other moral weak spots in his character recently, such as his saying (at first) that he would accept dirt on a political opponent from a foreign national. Widely interpreted as the Prez saying that of course he'd break the rules to win, who wouldn't? I'm not sure whether he really meant what his later statements said, but it doesn't matter.

Trump may or may not be a good CEO for the country, but as a moral leader, he sucks. I would think conservatives would be concerned about that.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on June 17, 2019, 06:54:27 AM
I guess it depends on who you listen to, or read. NPR and PBS certainly don't imply that, not as a rule, anyway.

Certainly hate groups are a minority in this country. I never said otherwise. But white nationalist hate groups have always tried to claim Trump's victory as a plus for their cause, and Trump has never been very quick to disown them. That is my main point, that he doesn't seem to see moral leadership on issues like that as important. It's a blind spot of his that imo weakens his presidency.

We've seen other moral weak spots in his character recently, such as his saying (at first) that he would accept dirt on a political opponent from a foreign national. Widely interpreted as the Prez saying that of course he'd break the rules to win, who wouldn't? I'm not sure whether he really meant what his later statements said, but it doesn't matter.

Trump may or may not be a good CEO for the country, but as a moral leader, he sucks. I would think conservatives would be concerned about that.
Is there a specific law that says he can't accept "dirt" on his opposition from a foreign source under any circumstance?

And you knew this was coming, but if there is such a law (and I honestly don't know), would that law be successfully circumvented by PAYING for that dirt?

I think that what you see as a lack of moral leadership, is a refreshing departure from the previous refusal of politicians to speak honestly.  They are more concerned with appearing politically correct than in telling the truth.  Trump has often disavowed hate speech, but libs refuse to hear that.  Libs seem to honestly believe that any conservative that votes for Trump is by default a racist, homophobic, supremacist.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on June 17, 2019, 06:54:59 AM
NPR and PBS are Far Left Progressive, so of course they are going to claim the KKK and American Nazis are a huge problem and great in number.  It allows them to justify the insanity from the Left like BLM, and Antifa.  They also promote that everything LGBTxyz is just perfect, and great, except for the huge, but really non-existent prejudice and persecution against them. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on June 17, 2019, 07:01:34 AM
I guess it depends on who you listen to, or read. NPR and PBS certainly don't imply that, not as a rule, anyway.

Certainly hate groups are a minority in this country. I never said otherwise. But white nationalist hate groups have always tried to claim Trump's victory as a plus for their cause, and Trump has never been very quick to disown them. That is my main point, that he doesn't seem to see moral leadership on issues like that as important. It's a blind spot of his that imo weakens his presidency.

We've seen other moral weak spots in his character recently, such as his saying (at first) that he would accept dirt on a political opponent from a foreign national. Widely interpreted as the Prez saying that of course he'd break the rules to win, who wouldn't? I'm not sure whether he really meant what his later statements said, but it doesn't matter.

Trump may or may not be a good CEO for the country, but as a moral leader, he sucks. I would think conservatives would be concerned about that.
Azure, just how many “white nationalist hate groups” are there that “claim Trump’s victory as a plus for their cause”? 

I’m totally serious with this question. I keep hearing left wing media saying such things, with zero evidence ever presented. Do these groups go to CNN to make these claims or something?  Because I’ve got nothing, and would love to know where you got this information.

What you are spreading is the insidious guilt by association lie that pushes people like me, who had Trump as my 17th choice in the GOP field in 2016, deeply into Trump’s corner. I may or may not like him personally, but I rally around someone who is badgered and bullied by the mob, based largely upon outright lies.

We don’t elect moral leaders.  If you think Bill Clinton, John Kennedy, Teddy Kennedy, or any other politician are “moral leaders”, then I would question your own morality. It’s pathetic that moral leadership only applies if someone has an R after his name.

I will vote for Trump again for two reasons. First, he has advanced more conservative causes, while fighting an onslaught of democrats and republicans alike, than any other conservative in my lifetime.

Second, I back people who are bullied.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 17, 2019, 07:08:18 AM
I guess it depends on who you listen to, or read. NPR and PBS certainly don't imply that, not as a rule, anyway.

NPR and PBS are left slanted media.  Of course, you will counter this and try to label them as "moderate", they're not.


Certainly hate groups are a minority in this country. I never said otherwise. But white nationalist hate groups have always tried to claim Trump's victory as a plus for their cause, and Trump has never been very quick to disown them. That is my main point, that he doesn't seem to see moral leadership on issues like that as important. It's a blind spot of his that imo weakens his presidency.

 Pure bullshit perpetrated by the progressives and their media.  It's been pointed out, several times, to read or watch the entire transcript or video on these events pertaining to the President.  They have been selectively edited by the MSM.  When viewed or read in their entirety the real story is revealed, which doesn't follow the MSM or progressive's narrative.

 Oh, in case you missed it, the previous occupant in the WH, he brought radical groups into the WH and promoted them.  He stood with domestic terrorist and hate groups, he stood with dictators of communist regimes. He aligned himself with anti Semitics.  Where's the outrage?


We've seen other moral weak spots in his character recently, such as his saying (at first) that he would accept dirt on a political opponent from a foreign national. Widely interpreted as the Prez saying that of course he'd break the rules to win, who wouldn't? I'm not sure whether he really meant what his later statements said, but it doesn't matter.

YGTBSM.  We have definitive proof that HRC laundered money through a law firm (Perkins Coie) to pay a foreigner who paid Russian assets money to dig dirt on Trump.  We also have definitive proof that this "dossier" was never vetted, and found mostly to be untrue, but none the less used it to obtain FISA warrants unjustly, and illegally.  This is just the tip of the iceburg.  It's now coming out that the Obama administration was actively seeking foreign governments to spy on Trump's campaign.  Are you going to try to insinuate that President Obama didn't have any knowledge of this?

 "Moral Weak Spots in his character"............ Ha!!   Would you like to start a thread on Barack Obama and we can point to all of his "moral weak spots"?  Or how about Hillary Clinton?  You wanted to see her as President, and she is one of the most corrupt individuals to ever run for the WH in our lifetimes.   How about Joe Biden?  Want to discuss this guys "moral weak spots"?  How about Bernie Sanders?  Oh boy, we could have fun with that one!
 
Trump may or may not be a good CEO for the country, but as a moral leader, he sucks. I would think conservatives would be concerned about that.

 I would think democrats, moderate ones, would be concerned about the Alt Left Progressives that have hijacked their party and have taken it over.  I would also think moderate democrats would be concerned with the announced candidates that are running as democrats.  The current crop of democrat contenders are far left progressives who represent the radicals and want nothing to do with the mainstream liberals.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on June 17, 2019, 07:14:01 AM
Yes, Obama legitimized both BLM and Antifa by having them to the White House along with Al Sharpton about 100 times. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 17, 2019, 07:21:11 AM
Yes, Obama legitimized both BLM and Antifa by having them to the White House along with Al Sharpton about 1oo times.

 And his affiliation with Bill Ayers and Louis Farrakhan. 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on June 17, 2019, 07:24:30 AM
The media makes a big deal out of Trump saying he would accept dirt, and they ignore the fact that Hillary CREATED FAKE DIRT and used it to get FISA warrants to spy on American citizens. Yet the media makes a big deal out of a sentence Trump said with no actual action. Unbelievable.

The media presents reality upside down, it’s like a photographic negative. Example, using the fake made up Russia collusion story, they claim Trump is putting foreign interests above American. The reality is exactly the reverse; Trump is putting American interests first, more so than any other President in decades.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 17, 2019, 07:26:20 AM
BTW, I took the time to actually look up some "white nationalist" websites and see for myself.  What I found was quit interesting as they all did not like Trump and were openly attacking him.  No praise, no endorsements, no backing.

 I'm still waiting for someone to post where Trump has endorsed any hate group, or that hate group has openly endorsed Trump and has his acceptance of the endorsement.

 
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 17, 2019, 07:31:42 AM
The media makes a big deal out of Trump saying he would accept dirt, and they ignore the fact that Hillary CREATED FAKE DIRT and used it to get FISA warrants to spy on American citizens. Yet the media makes a big deal out of a sentence Trump said with no actual action. Unbelievable.

 Go a step further. Hillary PAID a foreign operative with money laundered through a law firm.  That operative PAID Russian and Ukraine operatives with the laundered money to develop the dossier.  This is "collusion" on it's face. 

 Then we have the Mueller Report.  Remember, Mueller was to investigate foreign interference in a US presidential election.  Notice how he conveniently left out anything pertaining to the dossier and HRC's involvement?


The media presents reality upside down, it’s like a photographic negative. Example, using the fake made up Russia collusion story, they claim Trump is putting foreign interests above American. The reality is exactly the reverse; Trump is putting American interests first, more so than any other President in decades.

 Projection.  The democrats are masters of projection.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 17, 2019, 07:43:07 AM
Kurt sums this up rather well:

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2019/06/17/a-tsunami-of-hypocrisy-n2548299

Quote
The greatest thing about Donald Trump is how his election has caused our enemies to reveal exactly what kind of seedy, corrupt weasels they truly are.

My apologies to weasels – those creatures don’t deserve to be associated with the shoddy assembly of race hustlers, graft grabbers, liberal liars, garbage media scribblers and submissive Fredocon lackies who make up our grotesque liberal elite.

Our enemies despise us, and look down upon us from what they assume we’ll consider the moral high ground, judging and berating us for the literal and figurative crimes they themselves commit. So watch for me to be labeled “weaselist’ and told to confront my nonweasel privilege while at the same time their own anti-weasel agenda will be obvious and in our face.

It’s the hypocrisy, stupid.

It’s the constant loud and proud lying that they hope will keep us cowed.

Nope.

It’s not working.

We got woke.

Take this idiocy about the newly discovered TREASONOUS TREACHERY OF TREASON that is taking oppo from grimy foreigners. Trump said (and I paraphrase), “Sure, I guess if some alien offered me dirt on whichever groper, fake Cherokee, Mad magazine mascot or skateboarding furry the Democrats nominate I’d listen,” and the lib elite lifted off into the highest of dudgeons.

“This is his worst treason since his last worst treason!” they thundered. “This is even more treasonous than when The Bad Orange Man called us ‘traitors’ for our treachery after we called him ‘traitor’ for two years!”

They got really, really upset. Fake upset, of course, but they committed to the bit and kept straight faces. And you know that Trump pulled the pin on that hand grenade of truth on purpose in order to make the dummies explode just like they did.

You have to wonder if the garbage elite really thinks their brand of blatant hypocrisy disguised as moral outrage works, or if this is just a reflexive response to a president who not only sees them for the useless slugs they are, but says so.

My apologies to slugs. I am not slugist.

Still, do any of them truly think that we Normals will listen to them sounding off about the perfidy of perhaps considering the possibility of maybe accepting dirt on their freak show candidates from outsiders and not recall that Felonia Milhous von Pantsuit famously did just that with the pee-pee dossier, or that Adam Schiff got punked by a couple of Russian Howard Stern wannabeskis offering him pics of the POTUS au natural?

When Staggers O’Cankles does it, it’s cool? When Congressman Leaky does it, it’s fine? Yet when Trump says he might do exactly what they did, it’s the greatest betrayal of our Values, our Constitution and our Democracy since his last greatest betrayal of our Values, our Constitution and our Democracy, which happened last week?   
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 17, 2019, 07:46:41 AM
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Little Joe on June 17, 2019, 08:07:30 AM
The media makes a big deal out of Trump saying he would accept dirt, and they ignore the fact that Hillary CREATED FAKE DIRT and used it to get FISA warrants to spy on American citizens. Yet the media makes a big deal out of a sentence Trump said with no actual action. Unbelievable.

The media presents reality upside down, it’s like a photographic negative. Example, using the fake made up Russia collusion story, they claim Trump is putting foreign interests above American. The reality is exactly the reverse; Trump is putting American interests first, more so than any other President in decades.
Yesterday, my in-laws tried to tell me that Netanyahu renamed the Golan Heights to Trump Heights.  She could have just been mistaken, but from the places she get's her news, I am quite sure that is what she heard or read.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Anthony on June 17, 2019, 08:08:00 AM
Sorry Azure.  We're piling on!  Me included.  LOL.  :)
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Number7 on June 17, 2019, 08:09:08 AM
I guess it depends on who you listen to, or read. NPR and PBS certainly don't imply that, not as a rule, anyway.

Certainly hate groups are a minority in this country. I never said otherwise. But white nationalist hate groups have always tried to claim Trump's victory as a plus for their cause, and Trump has never been very quick to disown them. That is my main point, that he doesn't seem to see moral leadership on issues like that as important. It's a blind spot of his that imo weakens his presidency.

We've seen other moral weak spots in his character recently, such as his saying (at first) that he would accept dirt on a political opponent from a foreign national. Widely interpreted as the Prez saying that of course he'd break the rules to win, who wouldn't? I'm not sure whether he really meant what his later statements said, but it doesn't matter.

Trump may or may not be a good CEO for the country, but as a moral leader, he sucks. I would think conservatives would be concerned about that.

I hate to have to point out to such a self endorsed academic, but you are full of shit and openly projecting everything g the left does to the rest of us because your basket is empty of truth and legitimate arguments.
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: nddons on June 17, 2019, 08:20:39 AM
The media makes a big deal out of Trump saying he would accept dirt, and they ignore the fact that Hillary CREATED FAKE DIRT and used it to get FISA warrants to spy on American citizens. Yet the media makes a big deal out of a sentence Trump said with no actual action. Unbelievable.

The media presents reality upside down, it’s like a photographic negative. Example, using the fake made up Russia collusion story, they claim Trump is putting foreign interests above American. The reality is exactly the reverse; Trump is putting American interests first, more so than any other President in decades.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/faa3411df0ed3adc0e4bfc092e894844.jpg)
Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on June 17, 2019, 09:23:05 AM
[snip]
Trump has never been very quick to disown them.

I guess one question would be how quickly does President Trump have to "disown" fringe groups?

And was that a standard that was applied to, say, President Obama?

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Rush on June 17, 2019, 10:41:24 AM
I guess it depends on who you listen to, or read. NPR and PBS certainly don't imply that, not as a rule, anyway.

I read a book written by a professor who did extensive research into all the domestic “terrorist” groups in the U.S. A much more credible source than NPR or PBS. I am currently homeless and it’s in a box in a warehouse somewhere but when we get moved into our new house I’ll try to find it.

Quote
Certainly hate groups are a minority in this country. I never said otherwise. But white nationalist hate groups have always tried to claim Trump's victory as a plus for their cause, and Trump has never been very quick to disown them. That is my main point, that he doesn't seem to see moral leadership on issues like that as important. It's a blind spot of his that imo weakens his presidency.

We've seen other moral weak spots in his character recently,

It’s a moral weak spot that he hasn’t to your knowledge made a public pronouncement disavowing certain hate groups? I have never verbally denounced cannabalistic serial killers to your knowledge. By your logic I have a moral weak spot now.

Quote

such as his saying (at first) that he would accept dirt on a political opponent from a foreign national. Widely interpreted as the Prez saying that of course he'd break the rules to win, who wouldn't? I'm not sure whether he really meant what his later statements said, but it doesn't matter.

Trump may or may not be a good CEO for the country, but as a moral leader, he sucks. I would think conservatives would be concerned about that.

What has he done that’s immoral?  Besides his words being misquoted and twisted by the media?

Title: Re: Will American Jews continue to vote democrat?
Post by: Lucifer on June 18, 2019, 07:37:10 AM
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/67932046.jpg)