Post by: NippleBoy on March 21, 2019, 08:01:54 PM
I don't know much about how their government works, but it seems like the policy will need to be voted on by their Parliament, so maybe not a done deal just yet. Anybody have any ideas about whether this knee jerk reaction will actually come to pass? From what I can tell New Zealand has some pretty reasonable gun policies until now.
Post by: Username on March 22, 2019, 06:52:13 AM
And all that does is disarm law-abiding citizens. The criminal will still have banned guns.
Post by: Anthony on March 22, 2019, 06:56:41 AM
Post by: Number7 on March 22, 2019, 07:39:39 AM
My thought at the time was that the same nag was constantly attacking the incoming President claiming that he engaged in hate speech.
The same progressives that attack every non kool-aid drinking communist, also cheer. violence committed by communist organizations like black lives matter and antifa, never stop accusing us of being violent, gun hungry, murderers.
Post by: NippleBoy on April 10, 2019, 09:03:40 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47878042
Only one vote against it. And he wasn't necessarily opposed to it.
Post by: nddons on April 10, 2019, 09:16:02 AM
Post by: Anthony on April 10, 2019, 09:41:00 AM
No worries, Dem Rep Eric Swalwell is ready to follow suit in the US.
He is just one of the more vocal gun grabbers. The entire Democrat Party and the DNC platform is for Australian style gun bans and gun confiscation which are called mandatory gun "buy backs". Well nobody got their guns from the government so how can the buy them back. They never owned them in the first place. The Democrats want to use the NZ tragedy to install more gun control here with the goal of removing guns from law abiding citizens in a systematic program.
1. Declare semi auto rifles illegal
2. Declare semi auto pistols and shotguns illegal
3. Declare bolt action, lever action, and pump action rifles and shotguns illegal
4. Declare single shot firearms all and others illegal
They will do it in steps, boiling the frog slowly. They have already accomplished much of it on the Fed, state and local level which are INFRINGEMENTS and all unconstitutional.
Post by: bflynn on April 10, 2019, 12:39:48 PM
That's an event where the militia (being necessary to the security of a Free State) would come out and stop him and I'd be right there with them as much as I could be.
As long as democrats don't prevent it.
Post by: Anthony on April 10, 2019, 01:02:22 PM
Post by: Little Joe on April 10, 2019, 03:16:45 PM
I think using the Trump analogy against the Leftists is a good tactic, but he is not the one that we have to worry about. It is all Democrats, and on this I am a single issue voter, and that's why I can't vote for any Democrat. Well, that's one reason. The other is they always seem to be LYING, or at least disguising what they truly want.I think Flynn realizes that Trump is not the one we need to be worried about. He was just putting it into terms liberals could understand. I think.
Post by: Rush on April 10, 2019, 03:20:09 PM
Post by: Anthony on April 10, 2019, 03:36:35 PM
The male liberals I know that like their guns understand it. The problem is their squeamish gun hating wives make them get rid of their guns.
And you think they are still Males? I don't think you do.
Post by: nddons on April 10, 2019, 03:53:30 PM
And you think they are still Males? I don't think you do.I don’t. Maybe I’m a toxic white masculine male, but any guy I saw who supported Hillary Clinton immediately and permanently lost his man card in my eyes.
Post by: bflynn on April 11, 2019, 03:30:33 AM
I think Flynn realizes that Trump is not the one we need to be worried about. He was just putting it into terms liberals could understand. I think.
You got it. The Left has a serious concern that it is going to happen.
I have a serious concern that someone is going to try one day because of how extreme the parties are becoming.
Post by: Anthony on April 11, 2019, 04:44:57 AM
You got it. The Left has a serious concern that it is going to happen.
I have a serious concern that someone is going to try one day because of how extreme the parties are becoming.
So you are worried about extreme Republicans taking our guns? How is the Republican Party becoming extreme?
Post by: Little Joe on April 11, 2019, 05:06:42 AM
So you are worried about extreme Republicans taking our guns? How is the Republican Party becoming extreme?Anthony, you and I usually agree, but I think you are just trying to find something wrong with Flynn's (with whom I often disagree) posts. I still think you are taking his posts wrong.
Post by: Anthony on April 11, 2019, 05:14:05 AM
Anthony, you and I usually agree, but I think you are just trying to find something wrong with Flynn's (with whom I often disagree) posts. I still think you are taking his posts wrong.
Well, I can see how the Democrats have become extreme, especially with Trump, and gun control, but I don't see how the Republicans are being "extreme". I just don't see it. I am just going to have to disagree with you here, but I have been wrong before, so......
Post by: bflynn on April 11, 2019, 05:20:58 AM
So you are worried about extreme Republicans taking our guns? How is the Republican Party becoming extreme?
There are fanatics on both sides of the aisle. There are more of them and they more dramatic ones on the left, but they exist on the right too.
The Republican party is becoming more extreme in the same way that Democrats have become more extreme. There's no room for moderation and if you want anything that isn't strictly a blessed Conservative value, then you must be a leftie communist. Now Republicans have traditionally been more religious and therefore more moderated by the religious moral code, but that's abating.
I think why this is happening is because of partisan gerrymandering, it's a natural consequence. When a district is firmly one party, the person running isn't trying to be a moderate in the election, they're trying to be fiercely partisan in the primary because they know that the primary is the real election.
I don't fear either side making a move, at least any time soon. I think the democrats are more likely to try it, but I wouldn't put it past Republicans to get there some day too. However, I believe we are on a trajectory where one day democrats are going to complete control of the government and they're going to demand all guns. At that point people will fight it in the courts, but ultimately their choice is going to come down to becoming a criminal or a subject.
Post by: bflynn on April 11, 2019, 05:27:04 AM
That is not at all a Conservative value. Is it tolerated? By many, no, I'm a traitor. This is a weak example because the source of this is a religious belief that God is the source of all life and it's not ours to take. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, so leave it to him.
A fanatic is someone who cannot tolerate differences and thinks those with differences must be destroyed. Check yourself - were you ready to fry me over this example? I don't care what the answer is, it's meant for you to understand yourself. Most fanatics don't believe they are fanatic, but if they're forced to confront that they are intolerant, they might break the cycle.
Post by: Anthony on April 11, 2019, 05:27:38 AM
Regarding the broader comment of Republican Party extremism, I just don't see that either. Yes there are extreme PEOPLE on both sides, but I don't see the Republican Party embracing extreme positions, and pushing for extreme policy.
Post by: Little Joe on April 11, 2019, 05:33:49 AM
Well, I can see how the Democrats have become extreme, especially with Trump, and gun control, but I don't see how the Republicans are being "extreme". I just don't see it. I am just going to have to disagree with you here, but I have been wrong before, so......The part of your post that I disagreed with was where you said Flynn was saying the Rs want to take away guns. I don't think he said that.
As for Rs becoming "extreme", that depends on your point of view. I do NOT think the right has nearly as many, or as "far leaning" as the left.
Assume a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being extreme left and 10 being extreme right.
If you are are 5, then both the far left and far right will appear extreme.
If you are a 7 or 8, then a 10 just seems a "little bit" more right, but a 1 seems horribly left.
Same goes for a 3. A 10 would seem far right.
If you are a 1 or a 10, then the other side is completely nuts and not worthy of consideration. That is where our problems are.
Example:
Far left says Man is causing climate change.
Far Right says man has no impact on climate change, or even that climate change doesn't exist.
I (being about a 7) say man has "some" impact on climate, even if it is practically negligible. I think my wife is extreme left because she thinks Man has a significant impact on climate.
Post by: Rush on April 11, 2019, 06:39:05 AM
In order to become more “far right” you have to become more conservative on either social issues or fiscal and economic issues or both. It’s not happening on social issues at all. They are exactly where they’ve always been on issues like gay marriage and abortion or even becoming more accepting of gays for example. And as for fiscal/economic, how are you going to be “too far right extremist”? Promote a zero tax rate? Propose repealing social security and Medicare? Show me what part of the Republican Party is floating such things.
There have always been extremist right groups such as white supremicists which aren’t actually conservative at all but just another form of totalitarianism but there is no mass flight of Republicans into these groups and no takeover of the Republican Party by these groups whatsoever.
Post by: Anthony on April 11, 2019, 06:47:35 AM
I don’t see the Republican Party becoming more extreme at all. It’s very much the same as it was at the turn of the century. The Democrat party has careened off the scale left. An anecdotal example: Roseann Barr, a liberal, stated that she has not changed at all, she’s stood in one spot while the Democrat party has moved far left of her. I see no Republican claim that they have stood still while their party moved far right. If anything the reverse. I see some Republicans becoming more liberal on social issues.
In order to become more “far right” you have to become more conservative on either social issues or fiscal and economic issues or both. It’s not happening on social issues at all. They are exactly where they’ve always been on issues like gay marriage and abortion or even becoming more accepting of gays for example. And as for fiscal/economic, how are you going to be “too far right extremist”? Promote a zero tax rate? Propose repealing social security and Medicare? Show me what part of the Republican Party is floating such things.
There have always been extremist right groups such as white supremicists which aren’t actually conservative at all but just another form of totalitarianism but there is no mass flight of Republicans into these groups and no takeover of the Republican Party by these groups whatsoever.
^^^^^This. Spot on.
Post by: Little Joe on April 11, 2019, 10:09:44 AM
I don’t see the Republican Party becoming more extreme at all. It’s very much the same as it was at the turn of the century. The Democrat party has careened off the scale left. An anecdotal example: Roseann Barr, a liberal, stated that she has not changed at all, she’s stood in one spot while the Democrat party has moved far left of her. I see no Republican claim that they have stood still while their party moved far right. If anything the reverse. I see some Republicans becoming more liberal on social issues.I agree with that completely. All I was trying to get across is that to someone on the left, those on the right seem extreme. Whether you see someone else as extreme or not depends on your own perspective.
In order to become more “far right” you have to become more conservative on either social issues or fiscal and economic issues or both. It’s not happening on social issues at all. They are exactly where they’ve always been on issues like gay marriage and abortion or even becoming more accepting of gays for example. And as for fiscal/economic, how are you going to be “too far right extremist”? Promote a zero tax rate? Propose repealing social security and Medicare? Show me what part of the Republican Party is floating such things.
There have always been extremist right groups such as white supremicists which aren’t actually conservative at all but just another form of totalitarianism but there is no mass flight of Republicans into these groups and no takeover of the Republican Party by these groups whatsoever.
Post by: Anthony on April 11, 2019, 10:31:52 AM
All I was trying to get across is that to someone on the left, those on the right seem extreme. Whether you see someone else as extreme or not depends on your own perspective.
And why do you think that people on the Left think those on the Right are extreme? Has the Right's positions changed? As Rush has said if anything they've become more liberal, especially with social issues. The reason Leftists look at the Right as extreme is that THEY have become more Leftist, so now view reasonable positions on the Right are NOW extreme.
The Right has not become farther Right, but the Left has become much farther Left.
Post by: bflynn on April 11, 2019, 10:36:06 AM
Well, this thread is about guns, and I don't se any Republicans nor the Republican Party pushing for more gun control., especially bans, and confiscations like the Democrats. Beto, Swalwell, Hillary, Feinstein, Schumer, Pelosi and others have all specifically recommended extreme gun control measures.
Regarding the broader comment of Republican Party extremism, I just don't see that either. Yes there are extreme PEOPLE on both sides, but I don't see the Republican Party embracing extreme positions, and pushing for extreme policy.
https://www.conservativereview.com/news/republicans-join-dems-to-push-for-new-gun-control-law/
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/02/oregon-republicans-pushing-gun-control/
https://thehill.com/regulation/284792-house-republicans-pushing-gun-control-bill
Look to your right. If you don't see the fanatics, look in the mirror.
Post by: Rush on April 11, 2019, 10:41:30 AM
I agree with that completely. All I was trying to get across is that to someone on the left, those on the right seem extreme. Whether you see someone else as extreme or not depends on your own perspective.
I got your point and agree. I was responding to flynn, not you, although I should have quoted his post. I'll do it now:
Quote
As an example of a Conservative value, let me offer capital punishment. I am of the opinion that nobody should ever be killed by the government, even the worst criminal that you can think of. And yes, I do mean that if we had caught Hitler, we should put him in prison for the rest of his life.
That is not at all a Conservative value. Is it tolerated? By many, no, I'm a traitor. This is a weak example because the source of this is a religious belief that God is the source of all life and it's not ours to take. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, so leave it to him.
A fanatic is someone who cannot tolerate differences and thinks those with differences must be destroyed. Check yourself - were you ready to fry me over this example? I don't care what the answer is, it's meant for you to understand yourself. Most fanatics don't believe they are fanatic, but if they're forced to confront that they are intolerant, they might break the cycle.
I do agree it's a relative perspective. My point is that when you look at it in absolute terms, not relative terms, Republicans have not changed much, Democrats have. "Absolute" meaning their actual stances on issues, not how extreme they think the other side is. I agree with you that both sides are increasingly seeing each other as extreme, but it's the left that's moving, not the right.
However if you listen to mainstream media they are portraying the right as moving more to the extreme. They are calling the entire half of the nation that doesn't vote Democrat racist, xenophobic, deplorable, etc. etc. and quite deliberately painting them as extremists. But mainstream Republican politicians are not in that camp at all, they are still "normal" or what they have always been. Whereas mainstream elected Democrats are now far left when compared to what they used to be.
Post by: Number7 on April 11, 2019, 10:46:35 AM
I don’t see the Republican Party becoming more extreme at all. It’s very much the same as it was at the turn of the century. The Democrat party has careened off the scale left. An anecdotal example: Roseann Barr, a liberal, stated that she has not changed at all, she’s stood in one spot while the Democrat party has moved far left of her. I see no Republican claim that they have stood still while their party moved far right. If anything the reverse. I see some Republicans becoming more liberal on social issues.
In order to become more “far right” you have to become more conservative on either social issues or fiscal and economic issues or both. It’s not happening on social issues at all. They are exactly where they’ve always been on issues like gay marriage and abortion or even becoming more accepting of gays for example. And as for fiscal/economic, how are you going to be “too far right extremist”? Promote a zero tax rate? Propose repealing social security and Medicare? Show me what part of the Republican Party is floating such things.
There have always been extremist right groups such as white supremicists which aren’t actually conservative at all but just another form of totalitarianism but there is no mass flight of Republicans into these groups and no takeover of the Republican Party by these groups whatsoever.
What I see here is Flynn attempting to play the lib backup card in this instance.
When you make stupid allegation against your political foe and get caught pretending, it is common for people to back up and make just as stupid a claim by trying to say that ‘ others are equally guilty by trying to make the other side seem just as guilty by association. Thinking it will justify their original stupid claim. Then they often make an even dumber assertion to try and wiggle off the pointy end of the stick they find themselves facing.
Post by: Little Joe on April 11, 2019, 10:47:51 AM
I got your point and agree. I was responding to flynn, not you, although I should have quoted his post. I'll do it now:Right on all counts. Especially the part about the media deliberately focusing on the far right and insinuating that everyone right of center is all the same. My in-laws use the same tactic.
I do agree it's a relative perspective. My point is that when you look at it in absolute terms, not relative terms, Republicans have not changed much, Democrats have. "Absolute" meaning their actual stances on issues, not how extreme they think the other side is. I agree with you that both sides are increasingly seeing each other as extreme, but it's the left that's moving, not the right.
However if you listen to mainstream media they are portraying the right as moving more to the extreme. They are calling the entire half of the nation that doesn't vote Democrat racist, xenophobic, deplorable, etc. etc. and quite deliberately painting them as extremists. But mainstream Republican politicians are not in that camp at all, they are still "normal" or what they have always been. Whereas mainstream elected Democrats are now far left when compared to what they used to be.
Post by: Anthony on April 11, 2019, 10:48:13 AM
https://www.conservativereview.com/news/republicans-join-dems-to-push-for-new-gun-control-law/
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/02/oregon-republicans-pushing-gun-control/
https://thehill.com/regulation/284792-house-republicans-pushing-gun-control-bill
Look to your right. If you don't see the fanatics, look in the mirror.
Yes, I've seen them. So, yes there are individual RINO Republicans for more gun control, but it is neither widespread, nor the position of the Republican Party like it is for the Democrat Party. There are also individual RINO Republicans that are against Trump. So what?
I couldn't care less if you think I'm a fanatic. On more gun control laws, yes I am a fanatic. For preserving the sovereignty of the U.S. Yes, I am a fanatic. For resisting more Socialism, and Communism. Yes I am a fanatic.
Post by: Rush on April 11, 2019, 10:55:38 AM
https://www.conservativereview.com/news/republicans-join-dems-to-push-for-new-gun-control-law/
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/02/oregon-republicans-pushing-gun-control/
https://thehill.com/regulation/284792-house-republicans-pushing-gun-control-bill
Look to your right. If you don't see the fanatics, look in the mirror.
Well those Republicans are traitors imo.
Anyhoo to your comment to look to the right. That is the entire point. "Normal" Republicans and conservative DO look to the right and see extremists, and deplore them, and want nothing to do with them. Far right evil is named and foresaken by mainstream conservatives/Repubs. But not so on the left. The average liberal Democrat cannot bring themselves to name extreme far left evil, they can't do it. On the contrary they are moving toward it. They cannot draw a distinction between evil extreme leftism and what they are themselves promoting (Green New Deal for example). They cannot parse out just when their leftism crosses that line. The Green New Deal is a guaranteed disaster on the scale of Stalin. You can't get more evil or extreme than that. Your average liberal doesn't see that at all.
Post by: nddons on April 11, 2019, 01:08:15 PM
There are fanatics on both sides of the aisle. There are more of them and they more dramatic ones on the left, but they exist on the right too.You need to demonstrate how “The Republican party is becoming more extreme in the same way that Democrats have become more extreme. “ Please provide examples.
The Republican party is becoming more extreme in the same way that Democrats have become more extreme. There's no room for moderation and if you want anything that isn't strictly a blessed Conservative value, then you must be a leftie communist. Now Republicans have traditionally been more religious and therefore more moderated by the religious moral code, but that's abating.
I think why this is happening is because of partisan gerrymandering, it's a natural consequence. When a district is firmly one party, the person running isn't trying to be a moderate in the election, they're trying to be fiercely partisan in the primary because they know that the primary is the real election.
I don't fear either side making a move, at least any time soon. I think the democrats are more likely to try it, but I wouldn't put it past Republicans to get there some day too. However, I believe we are on a trajectory where one day democrats are going to complete control of the government and they're going to demand all guns. At that point people will fight it in the courts, but ultimately their choice is going to come down to becoming a criminal or a subject.
I find your kind of equivocation to be intellectually dishonest and utterly lazy. When everyone is extreme, then it’s easy to stand on a soapbox and look down on two sides without EVER having to pick a side between right and wrong, left and right, good and evil. It must be so lofty up there not having to work at anything.
Please pull up the GOP 2016 platform and the Democrat 2016 platform. They’re easily found. And then tell me a single thing in the Republican platform that is extreme. To the contrary, the GOP platform goes through every one of the Bill of Rights and addresses it’s position with each, among many other things.
Now let’s look at the Democrat platform. Off the top of my head, the following topics are nothing but extreme:
“Helping more workers share in near-record corporate profits.”
“Making the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes.”
“Ending systemic racism.”
“Closing the racial wealth gap.”
“Guaranteeing LGBT rights.”
“Appointing judges.”
“Securing statehood for Washington DC.”
Etc.
The titles might sound good and flowery, but read the substance behind them. Many are Marxist goals.
Post by: nddons on April 11, 2019, 01:09:13 PM
And why do you think that people on the Left think those on the Right are extreme? Has the Right's positions changed? As Rush has said if anything they've become more liberal, especially with social issues. The reason Leftists look at the Right as extreme is that THEY have become more Leftist, so now view reasonable positions on the Right are NOW extreme.Bingo.
The Right has not become farther Right, but the Left has become much farther Left.
Post by: bflynn on April 12, 2019, 09:27:36 AM
Maybe tomorrow.
Post by: Username on April 12, 2019, 10:25:29 AM
I am too busy to continue this right now. I have found it interesting how many people cannot distinguish between moderates and leftists. Hint - everyone left of you should not be put in the same group.Nonsense. Everyone to the left of me is in the same group: Wrong.
Maybe tomorrow.
Post by: Lucifer on April 14, 2019, 05:29:23 AM
If you want to know what the leftist are up to, just listen and see what they are accusing others of doing.
Post by: Anthony on April 14, 2019, 05:31:40 AM
Projection is one of the favorite tools of the left.
If you want to know what the leftist are up to, just listen and see what they are accusing others of doing.
They are MASTERS of Projection. If the Democrats and Media stopped harping on Racism and Sexism it would NOT be the issue people think it is today. They are purposely keeping us divided. Divide and conquer.