PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Little Joe on May 08, 2019, 01:30:54 PM
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All weekend I kept reading about how Trump "suddenly and unexpectedly initiated a new trade war by re-imposing tariffs".
But today I read that China sent a letter on Friday which basically gutted all the progress we had been making in the trade negotiations. I guess Trump could have just rolled over like Obama did with Iran, but I for one am glad he didn't. Even if I have lost over 6 figures in the past few days.
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All weekend I kept reading about how Trump "suddenly and unexpectedly initiated a new trade war by re-imposing tariffs".
But today I read that China sent a letter on Friday which basically gutted all the progress we had been making in the trade negotiations. I guess Trump could have just rolled over like Obama did with Iran, but I for one am glad he didn't. Even if I have lost over 6 figures in the past few days.
Yes, Wall Street is a little spooked. As you know, just ride it out. China needs us more than we need them. They are liars and cheats, but know they need U.S. markets.
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Yes, Wall Street is a little spooked. As you know, just ride it out. China needs us more than we need them. They are liars and cheats, but know they need U.S. markets.
Going in and out of Hong Kong I was always amazed at all of the container ships lined up waiting to port. What I found out even more amazing was those containers were filled up leaving Hong Kong and inbound HKG they are usually empty.
Without us (USA) the Chinese don't have anyone to sell their crap too. If we cut them totally off they would collapse in minutes. They know this, we know this, the world knows this.
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Going in and out of Hong Kong I was always amazed at all of the container ships lined up waiting to port. What I found out even more amazing was those containers were filled up leaving Hong Kong and inbound HKG they are usually empty.
Without us (USA) the Chinese don't have anyone to sell their crap too. If we cut them totally off they would collapse in minutes. They know this, we know this, the world knows this.
But whining trolls like the pathetic professor only know what they are told without the benefit of facts.
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Rather than open a new thread, I will just add to this on.
Tariffs: generally a bad thing, except when used as a negotiating tool, which is what Trump is doing. Tariffs are often viewed as a tax on the citizens of the country imposing the tariffs, as they are forced to pay more for their goods.
But it's not really like a tax because no one is forced to pay them. You can choose to buy those tariff laden goods, or you can buy goods made in America, or elsewhere. And if those goods are not made in America now, they will be if the prices become competitive. This will create more American jobs, generate more tax revenue, and the lower unemployment will reduce so-called "entitlement" spending. So personally, I hope the tariffs beat the Chinese into submission, or at least force them to level the playing ground just a little. If not, then those of us that complain about the Chinese taking our jobs and manufacturing will get to see that come back here, in the good ole USA. (e, MAGA).
Thank you President Trump.
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I am most amazed by the people screaming about the tariffs. These tend to be the same people that scream about low wages here, yet enjoy the low prices of things made in China by workers making something like $7.00 a week.
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I am most amazed by the people screaming about the tariffs. These tend to be the same people that scream about low wages here, yet enjoy the low prices of things made in China by workers making something like $7.00 a week.
More of the leftist ignorance on economics.
As an aside, look who in the political spectrum is crying over this. Establishment types are up in arms. Ask yourself "why?".
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More of the leftist ignorance on economics.
As an aside, look who in the political spectrum is crying over this. Establishment types are up in arms. Ask yourself "why?".
It is both Leftist ignorance of Economics and also purposeful generation of fear to tank the markets and create fear in the public of higher costs (inflation) for products they buy. All to generate anti Trump public opinion. The Media keeps calling it a TRADE WAR and wringing their hands in dismay. This is more purposeful Disinformation.
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It is both Leftist ignorance of Economics and also purposeful generation of fear to tank the markets and create fear in the public of higher costs (inflation) for products they buy. All to generate anti Trump public opinion. The Media keeps calling it a TRADE WAR and wringing their hands in dismay. This is more purposeful Disinformation.
Agreed. The leftist only remaining hope of installing a whackadoodle in the WH in 2020 is the economy tanks.
But it's also two folded. The establishment types (R&D) are heavily vested in letting the Chinese continue to rape us on trade. Their handlers want cheap Chinese goods to continue in this country uninterrupted. Biden is a perfect example, as is Mitch McConnell.
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Agreed. The leftist only remaining hope of installing a whackadoodle in the WH in 2020 is the economy tanks.
But it's also two folded. The establishment types (R&D) are heavily vested in letting the Chinese continue to rape us on trade. Their handlers want cheap Chinese goods to continue in this country uninterrupted. Biden is a perfect example, as is Mitch McConnell.
Well, the vast majority of Dem and Republican politicians only care about the very short term. It is the nature of politics in the U.S. and the nature of people here. What have you done for me today? What are this quarter's earnings?
Trump is trying to change the paradigm with China, and our other trade partners in an attempt to bring jobs back to the U.S. that previous Presidents (R&D) gave up on. Of course our trade partners will cry holy hell in an attempt to get out Media, and Politicians to convince the general public it is wrong to try to level the playing field. Same thing Ho Chi Minh did with Walter Cronkite, and the rest of our Media.
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Well, the vast majority of Dem and Republican politicians only care about the very short term. It is the nature of politics in the U.S. and the nature of people here. What have you done for me today? What are this quarter's earnings?
Trump is trying to change the paradigm with China, and our other trade partners in an attempt to bring jobs back to the U.S. that previous Presidents (R&D) gave up on. Of course our trade partners will cry holy hello in an attempt to get out Media to convince the general public it is wrong to try to level the playing field. Same thing Ho Chi Minh did with Walter Cronkite, and the rest of our Media.
Honestly, I don't think it will bring jobs back to the US. I think the manufacturing will be moved to other countries like Vietnam, etc.
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Honestly, I don't think it will bring jobs back to the US. I think the manufacturing will be moved to other countries like Vietnam, etc.
You may be right. I think we will reach a deal with China, however. They need our markets. U.S. Steel just announced a $1B investment in a Pittsburgh operation bringing back 500 steel industry jobs.
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2018/03/07/trumps-tariff-leads-u-s-steel-to-reopen-big.html
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/03/07/us-steel-to-start-plant-bring-back-workers/
Pittsburgh and CBS are virulently anti Trump, so you know it sticks in their craw to admit this.
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It is both Leftist ignorance of Economics and also purposeful generation of fear to tank the markets and create fear in the public of higher costs (inflation) for products they buy. All to generate anti Trump public opinion. The Media keeps calling it a TRADE WAR and wringing their hands in dismay. This is more purposeful Disinformation.
Correct on everything, except I would add one word:
You say The Media keeps calling it a TRADE WAR
I would say the media keeps calling it "TRUMPS trade war", as if he started it. He is just the first on to fight back against the aggression that China has been perpetrating against us for decades.
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Honestly, I don't think it will bring jobs back to the US. I think the manufacturing will be moved to other countries like Vietnam, etc.
Josh, I thought the same thing, but I’m seeing a lot of my manufacturing clients pulling Chinese-made sub-components back into the US, either building things themselves or outsourcing to US suppliers.
This movement is not altruistic, but the results are the same: US jobs. They are doing it because of corruption, lack of quality, and intellectual property theft. Chinese costs are climbing (even before tariffs) so that helps the mathematics of buying US.
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Josh, I thought the same thing, but I’m seeing a lot of my manufacturing clients pulling Chinese-made sub-components back into the US, either building things themselves or outsourcing to US suppliers.
This movement is not altruistic, but the results are the same: US jobs. They are doing it because of corruption, lack of quality, and intellectual property theft. Chinese costs are climbing (even before tariffs) so that helps the mathematics of buying US.
I hope I'm wrong, and we need to protect intellectual property. I stole this from another forum I'm on. This guy owns an outdoors company.
A reference to the all might dollar and US made goods:
A $1600 raft costs about $800 to produce in China with US accessories (slings, paddles, etc). I once had the same raft made in Canada and it cost me $1580 to produce, sold at around $2200 to customers. Two things you'll notice from that lesson:
1. profit went up substantially going to china
2. production cost went way down leaving Canada
The same raft made in the US would cost the slightly more than canada produced it. We'd still have to buy fabric from overseas because the US doesn't make it. So, even with US made rafts, you're buying foreign fabrics to do it.
Think what you want about china and beyond, but in the end guys spend as little as possible and the market showed me that I could sell 100 units at a lower price or 30 units at a higher price...which means >2/3 of consumers prefer chinese products if quality matches price.
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It's rare to find Chinese manufactured goods with quality.
I do my best to avoid "made in China" on anything I buy.
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If the quality is the same, consumers will always go for lower price, unless there is some brand loyalty thing going on. The trick is for the U.S. to get more high margin, high innovation products to be made here. These jobs pay the most, and have the most economic multipliers.
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If the quality is the same, consumers will always go for lower price, unless there is some brand loyalty thing going on. The trick is for the U.S. to get more high margin, high innovation products to be made here. These jobs pay the most, and have the most economic multipliers.
Wisconsin is trying to do that with Foxconn, but so far this project is getting to be more fucked up than a football bat. Then you have the government getting involved to make things difficult for companies to grow, or make them quit trying; I hope New Yorkers learned this lesson with Amazon and retarded politicians. Then even if the government helps out businesses with TIFs and tax breaks, you get people screaming and crying about those. Would Tesla even be where they are at without all the government subsidies and tax breaks for those who bought from them? Can a business in the U.S. even be successful on their own anymore?
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It's rare to find Chinese manufactured goods with quality.
I do my best to avoid "made in China" on anything I buy.
I read elsewhere that a Chinese official said China can make quality. But Americans want to buy cheap.
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I hope I'm wrong, and we need to protect intellectual property. I stole this from another forum I'm on. This guy owns an outdoors company.
A reference to the all might dollar and US made goods:
A $1600 raft costs about $800 to produce in China with US accessories (slings, paddles, etc). I once had the same raft made in Canada and it cost me $1580 to produce, sold at around $2200 to customers. Two things you'll notice from that lesson:
1. profit went up substantially going to china
2. production cost went way down leaving Canada
The same raft made in the US would cost the slightly more than canada produced it. We'd still have to buy fabric from overseas because the US doesn't make it. So, even with US made rafts, you're buying foreign fabrics to do it.
Think what you want about china and beyond, but in the end guys spend as little as possible and the market showed me that I could sell 100 units at a lower price or 30 units at a higher price...which means >2/3 of consumers prefer chinese products if quality matches price.
I'm sure that was all true, and I'm sure there is still some truth there. But it is changing rapidly.
The cost of Chinese labor is increasing.
Trump has lowered US Business taxes.
Trump has removed many of the strangling regulations that drove off many manufacturers.
American productivity has begun to improve again.
Add to that, and other factors, Tariffs will level the playing field even more.
I really see American becoming Great Again! (If we could only do something about the American Socialists and the Trump haters, including the "Never Trumpers".
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I read elsewhere that a Chinese official said China can make quality. But Americans want to buy cheap.
You don't understand the Chinese business mentality.
In Chinese business, all that matters is how to increase profits for the owners. If that means working people 100+ hours a week in below slum conditions, then so be it.
It also means if a product calls for a certain grade of steel, which is costly to produce, then substitute a lower grade and claim it's the higher grade. If caught, then act surprised and blame it on a low level supervisor for dishonoring the company.
Aircraft manufacturers have found this out the hard way when they outsourced parts to China. Schweitzer Helicopters outsourced a lot of their parts only to have to cut them up due to poor quality. There are many more examples.
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You don't understand the Chinese business mentality.
In Chinese business, all that matters is how to increase profits for the owners. If that means working people 100+ hours a week in below slum conditions, then so be it.
It also means if a product calls for a certain grade of steel, which is costly to produce, then substitute a lower grade and claim it's the higher grade. If caught, then act surprised and blame it on a low level supervisor for dishonoring the company.
Aircraft manufacturers have found this out the hard way when they outsourced parts to China. Schweitzer Helicopters outsourced a lot of their parts only to have to cut them up due to poor quality. There are many more examples.
Yep. I’ve heard the exact same thing. And this is happening with mission-critical, safety -critical products.
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You don't understand the Chinese business mentality.
In Chinese business, all that matters is how to increase profits for the owners. If that means working people 100+ hours a week in below slum conditions, then so be it.
It also means if a product calls for a certain grade of steel, which is costly to produce, then substitute a lower grade and claim it's the higher grade. If caught, then act surprised and blame it on a low level supervisor for dishonoring the company.
Aircraft manufacturers have found this out the hard way when they outsourced parts to China. Schweitzer Helicopters outsourced a lot of their parts only to have to cut them up due to poor quality. There are many more examples.
The Chinese are largely unethical, and dishonest in most of their business, and political dealings. They can NOT be trusted therefore you have to back them into a corner, threaten, and have the upper hand to make the threats come true of they don't deliver. The Japanese are marginally better.
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I'm sure that was all true, and I'm sure there is still some truth there. But it is changing rapidly.
The cost of Chinese labor is increasing.
Trump has lowered US Business taxes.
Trump has removed many of the strangling regulations that drove off many manufacturers.
American productivity has begun to improve again.
Add to that, and other factors, Tariffs will level the playing field even more.
I really see American becoming Great Again! (If we could only do something about the American Socialists and the Trump haters, including the "Never Trumpers".
Trump is doing well, and things are getting better. But is it sustainable from the sabotage from the left? Will prosperity continue if a Dem wins the next presidential election; will we get another president who will bow in submission to the leaders of other countries?
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Trump is doing well, and things are getting better. But is it sustainable from the sabotage from the left? Will prosperity continue if a Dem wins the next presidential election; will we get another president who will bow in submission to the leaders of other countries?
We have had good economies under Democrats before, like Clinton who was forced to the Center by a Congress turned Republican in the middle of his first term. But, even he was not radically Far Left like today's Democrats. So, to answer your question, no it is not sustainable if the Democrats seize power. God forbid they get both a majority in Congress and the White (Rainbow) House.
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Think what you want about china and beyond, but in the end guys spend as little as possible and the market showed me that I could sell 100 units at a lower price or 30 units at a higher price...which means >2/3 of consumers prefer chinese products if quality matches price.
The big IF. IF quality matches price. Thinking back to the 1950's of Japanese products sold here in the states they were generally thought of as junk. It makes me feel that is where China is today. During the 60's I feel the Japanese were rethinking their strategy and redesigning their products, case in point look at Japanese autos during the 70's. Let's see what happens.
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The big IF. IF quality matches price. Thinking back to the 1950's of Japanese products sold here in the states they were generally thought of as junk. It makes me feel that is where China is today. During the 60's I feel the Japanese were rethinking their strategy and redesigning their products, case in point look at Japanese autos during the 70's. Let's see what happens.
https://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/w-edwards-deming
In 1950, Japanese businessmen turned to an obscure American from Wyoming to help them rebuild an economy shattered in World War II. That industrial expert, W. Edwards Deming, taught Japan’s manufacturers how to produce top quality products economically. The Japanese used that knowledge to turn the global economy on its head and beat U.S. industry at its own game.
Companies such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Sony Corp. adopted Deming’s concepts and became world-class producers in their fields, helping Japan become one of the planet’s dominant economic powers. Japan’s rise was the start of a regional metamorphosis. Asia eventually became a manufacturing giant. Although American companies could have learned from Deming, most ignored him for decades even as Asian competitors gobbled away at Americans’ customer base and profits.
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Yeah, it's ironic an American spurred the Japanese quality control revolution. I read "Theory Z" in grad school.
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Thanks for the history update. I had forgotten about him and what really went on in Japan during that time. I apologize for my faulty memory. Thank you.
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I really like the idea of stopping the flow of Chinese crap into (ultimately) America's landfills. Nurseries receive ceramic pots from overseas stuffed for shipping protection with thousands of reject athletic shoes from the manufacturing process. They end up in our landfills.
And I had no idea about the fentanyl.
https://conservativehardliner.com/we-should-stop-doing-business-china
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The Chinese Yuan is falling. Reports are that the Chinese are unlikely to allow it to fall below 7 Yuan to the Dollar and if they do, it will freefall from there.
So, there's tremendous pressure on them to make a deal with Trump and he know it. When you're in the position of power, why would you accept less than what you want? Only because of internal division would you not get it.
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I really like the idea of stopping the flow of Chinese crap into (ultimately) America's landfills. Nurseries receive ceramic pots from overseas stuffed for shipping protection with thousands of reject athletic shoes from the manufacturing process. They end up in our landfills.
And I had no idea about the fentanyl.
https://conservativehardliner.com/we-should-stop-doing-business-china
Great article. I didn’t know China was a source of illegal fentanyl either. The last thing I would want to use is Chinese made fentanyl! Fentanyl is a proper painkiller and used properly isn’t dangerous at all. I get tired of reading hysterical articles about “it is 100 times stronger than morphine”. Yeah... ever heard of dose dependence? YOU USE 100 TIMES LESS OF IT. DUH.
sheesh people. My little 17 pound doggie had a Fentanyl patch when she got compartment syndrome in her leg. It didn’t kill her.
Fentanyl will kill you if you’re a drug addict and misuse it. Or buy it on the street where you don’t know who manufactured it. That brings us back to Chinese fentanyl. I hope they are talking only about illegal street fentanyl and not what my vet gives my dog or what my doctor might give me if I get cancer! I don’t want no Cheap Chinese Piece of Shit fentanyl!
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Great article. I didn’t know China was a source of illegal fentanyl either. The last thing I would want to use is Chinese made fentanyl! Fentanyl is a proper painkiller and used properly isn’t dangerous at all. I get tired of reading hysterical articles about “it is 100 times stronger than morphine”. Yeah... ever heard of dose dependence? YOU USE 100 TIMES LESS OF IT. DUH.
sheesh people. My little 17 pound doggie had a Fentanyl patch when she got compartment syndrome in her leg. It didn’t kill her.
Fentanyl will kill you if you’re a drug addict and misuse it. Or buy it on the street where you don’t know who manufactured it. That brings us back to Chinese fentanyl. I hope they are talking only about illegal street fentanyl and not what my vet gives my dog or what my doctor might give me if I get cancer! I don’t want no Cheap Chinese Piece of Shit fentanyl!
I do not want anything from China, period. And I damn sure do not want Chinese made drugs used on me or anyone associated with me.
It wasn't that long ago people in the US had pets dying from eating Chinese produced dog food. The Chinese produce crap, cheap inferior crap not acceptable to western standards.
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I do not want anything from China, period. And I damn sure do not want Chinese made drugs used on me or anyone associated with me.
It wasn't that long ago people in the US had pets dying from eating Chinese produced dog food. The Chinese produce crap, cheap inferior crap not acceptable to western standards.
Add in production delays, lead in various products including children’s toys, poorer quality, banking issues, etc., and China is really a bad manufacturing partner in many industries.
I avoid it if at all possible.
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I do not want anything from China, period. And I damn sure do not want Chinese made drugs used on me or anyone associated with me.
It wasn't that long ago people in the US had pets dying from eating Chinese produced dog food. The Chinese produce crap, cheap inferior crap not acceptable to western standards.
Then there was the poison baby formula they were shipping to us, and the Chinese themselves were using New Zealand made baby formula for their babies! Pure evil.