PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on July 29, 2019, 06:11:03 AM
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It’s started. They’re infiltrating social media platforms including this forum. ;D
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It’s started. They’re infiltrating social media platforms including this forum. ;D
Can't be.
BTW, I'm not sure why, but I'm voting democrat in 2020!
No way do I want such a racist in the WH as Trump! Oh, and I want democrat socialism! Yep, that's the way of the future!
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Yeah. I'm going to vote for Trump solely because some Russian posted a picture of a hot honey trap.
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Well, according to the Democrats and the Media (same thing) the Russians, as instructed by Putin personally, hacked every voting machine in the U.S. even though none of them are connected to the internet. Wow, that Russian technology is amazing. No wonder we have to go into space on their rockets.
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Russian trolls start here and the perfessor disappears. I sense a pattern.
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I don't know who I'll vote for yet. I don't like any of the Democrats and I still don't like Trump.
Really getting tired of voting for the lesser evil. That's still voting for evil.
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I don't know who I'll vote for yet. I don't like any of the Democrats and I still don't like Trump.
Really getting tired of voting for the lesser evil. That's still voting for evil.
My 2020 vision says this will be the libertarian moment! Just like 2016 was. :'(
(Don’t blame me - I voted for Gary Johnson.)
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I don't know who I'll vote for yet. I don't like any of the Democrats and I still don't like Trump.
Really getting tired of voting for the lesser evil. That's still voting for evil.
How is voting for Trump still "voting for evil"?
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How is voting for Trump still "voting for evil"?
Trump said "Pussy", and he probably has a higher testosterone level that Hillary. Libs think testosterone is a disease and a morality killer.
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I believe he has a childish demeanor and he is bellicose in dealing with others. I don’t like his personality and I wonder at his sense sometimes.
I honestly don’t know what to make out of him telling a Congresswoman to go back where she came from. I cannot come up with any explanation other than he is biased against Muslims, which as a president is not ok.
He has done some good things but he has done some stupid things too. He is pretty good at business but I don’t think he is right to be president.
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I honestly don’t know what to make out of him telling a Congresswoman to go back where she came from. I cannot come up with any explanation other than he is biased against Muslims, which as a president is not ok.
Biased against Muslims? Really? You can’t come up with any other explanation? You’ve wracked your brain, and nothing else occurs to you?
How about this explanation: Someone from a third world shit hole of a country (or whose family came from said shithole) lives in the U.S., is enjoying all the freedom and largesses of the U.S., and then criticizes and trashes this country. You cannot see that THAT is Trump’s problem with them?
What’s in the Kool-Aid you’re drinking that this explanation eludes you?
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I believe he has a childish demeanor and he is bellicose in dealing with others. I don’t like his personality and I wonder at his sense sometimes.
I honestly don’t know what to make out of him telling a Congresswoman to go back where she came from. I cannot come up with any explanation other than he is biased against Muslims, which as a president is not ok.
He has done some good things but he has done some stupid things too. He is pretty good at business but I don’t think he is right to be president.
In other words.... he said mean the hinges.
That sure is far more important than jobs, stocks, and freedom.
I see your point..
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In other words.... he said mean things.
No, he is an asshole and I don't like him as president.
Lots of people can do good things without being an asshole. Let's have one of them.
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How about this explanation: Someone from a third world shit hole of a country (or whose family came from said shithole) lives in the U.S., is enjoying all the freedom and largesses of the U.S., and then criticizes and trashes this country. You cannot see that THAT is Trump’s problem with them?
Someone who came from a third world shit hole, is living in the US enjoying the freedom here is allowed to criticize and trash the country. That's freedom and we should not have a president that tells them otherwise. That's where my major problem with this is, that the president has no business telling any legal resident that they should leave BECAUSE he is the president of all of us. If he doesn't want to represent a significant aspect of the population, then he ought to get out of the job. Ditto for Obama and whoever comes next as president.
Freedom is hard - it's advanced civics and you have be ready to get stuff you don't like because freedom is going to challenge you with things you despise. If you can't take them in and say "live and let live", then you aren't embracing freedom, you're doing what you despise the leftists for doing, you're just doing it for the other side.
Harsh words, but friends tell the truth. Don't embrace Trump saying "go back to where you came from" and then say that you're for freedom.
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Sure they can criticize the U.S., but the President also has freedom of speech. What he said was, Go back to where you came from, make it better, then COME BACK and tell us how you did it. I don't see that as hateful, or evil, or being an asshole. He's standing up, and responding to the nasty opinions of these four Jihadists.
The President's job is to respond, and give rebuttals to the opposition. He did just that.
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I believe he has a childish demeanor and he is bellicose in dealing with others. I don’t like his personality and I wonder at his sense sometimes.
I honestly don’t know what to make out of him telling a Congresswoman to go back where she came from. I cannot come up with any explanation other than he is biased against Muslims, which as a president is not ok.
He has done some good things but he has done some stupid things too. He is pretty good at business but I don’t think he is right to be president.
First, if I recall, he didn't say they should go back. He said they could go back if they want to since they hate America.
And, I don't think all four of them are Muslims, so that argument doesn't hold water.
And did you get upset when one of them said Trump should be deported (in 2016)?
I don't like his personality either. But at the moment, there is no one else running I that I would want to be President. Although I would vote for Nikki Haley in a heartthrob; uh, er, I mean in a heartbeat.
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Agree with @bflynn. It's not that he shouldn't be FREE to say what he wants, in the sense of legally free. Nobody is saying the President has fewer rights than everyone else. But he has a responsibility to LEAD the country, and that includes leading people he disagrees with. Lashing out in anger at someone because they're critical of you is not strong leadership. I have no problem with a "love it or leave it" comment from a private citizen, but I don't think it's an appropriate thing for the President to say.
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I’ve never looked to a politician in any capacity or position to “lead” me or anyone else, whether morally or otherwise. I expect them to do their jobs as servants of the people - not be their servant.
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Agree with @bflynn. It's not that he shouldn't be FREE to say what he wants, in the sense of legally free. Nobody is saying the President has fewer rights than everyone else. But he has a responsibility to LEAD the country, and that includes leading people he disagrees with. Lashing out in anger at someone because they're critical of you is not strong leadership. I have no problem with a "love it or leave it" comment from a private citizen, but I don't think it's an appropriate thing for the President to say.
I understand where you are coming from but he did say leave, then come back and tell us how you made it better. Meaning, productive criticism is better than just bashing to bash. So, to me he was showing positive leadership. He didn't call half the country DEPLORABLES like Hillary did.
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Agree with @bflynn. It's not that he shouldn't be FREE to say what he wants, in the sense of legally free. Nobody is saying the President has fewer rights than everyone else. But he has a responsibility to LEAD the country, and that includes leading people he disagrees with. Lashing out in anger at someone because they're critical of you is not strong leadership. I have no problem with a "love it or leave it" comment from a private citizen, but I don't think it's an appropriate thing for the President to say.
So you and bflynn prefer a Republican who is meek, mild, and must take a daily beating and never open their mouth in protest, like George W. Bush.
Sorry. I prefer a man who fights back when he’s treated unfairly, particularly when it seems the only people in his corner are us unelected Americans, and who is being attacked by democrats, many republicans and the MSM every single minute.
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I understand where you are coming from but he did say leave, then come back and tell us how you made it better. Meaning, productive criticism is better than just bashing to bash. So, to me he was showing positive leadership. He didn't call half the country DEPLORABLES like Hillary did.
I just reread his tweets, trying to find some way to read it the way you do, but it still reads to me as nothing more than lashing out in anger. The whole tone of his comments was "how dare they criticize us/me?" He was saying that these four came from broken, shithole countries so they have no right to try to tell the US, greatest nation on Earth, how to fix things. I don't see anything positive about it.
(And yes, Hillary's comment was equally negative and inappropriate... and might have even lost her the election, deservedly.)
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So you and bflynn prefer a Republican who is meek, mild, and must take a daily beating and never open their mouth in protest, like George W. Bush.
Sorry. I prefer a man who fights back when he’s treated unfairly, particularly when it seems the only people in his corner are us unelected Americans, and who is being attacked by democrats, many republicans and the MSM every single minute.
The Democrats have made mean, nasty, lies, falsehoods and misinformation an art form. The Republicans until Trump have never responded properly. I am not saying I am enamored with Trump's personality. However, when rebutting the over the top insults to him, his Presidency, and America, I want someone to punch back! Hard!
Trump has successfully made the Far Left, anti American radicals (the Jihad Squad) the FACE of the Democrat Party. He made Pelosi damn them, then defend them. He made Pelosi defend MS-13. Now he's making the Democrats explain and defend why all their Democrat run cities are Rat Infested Hell Holes.
Love it. Go Trump.
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Oh for crying out loud. He’s the President. He’s just as free to speak in condemnation of Americans who are haters of their own country as they are to speak in condemnation of him. It’s his job to defend the country and the Constitution.
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Someone who came from a third world shit hole, is living in the US enjoying the freedom here is allowed to criticize and trash the country. That's freedom and we should not have a president that tells them otherwise. That's where my major problem with this is, that the president has no business telling any legal resident that they should leave BECAUSE he is the president of all of us. If he doesn't want to represent a significant aspect of the population, then he ought to get out of the job. Ditto for Obama and whoever comes next as president.
Where did he say he doesn't want to represent them? Where do you people get this stuff? If you listen to all his speeches and look at all his policy changes and their positive effects on minority demographics, you hear only that he wants to represent them and improve their lives. The ONLY people he indicates that he doesn't represent and wants to send home are ILLEGAL ALIENS. And even those he wants to streamline the immigration process and help them become citizens legally.
Harsh words, but friends tell the truth. Don't embrace Trump saying "go back to where you came from" and then say that you're for freedom.
He said go back and fix your country of origin, then come back here and fix America if you think it's so broke. He never said they should be ejected as citizens.
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I just reread his tweets, trying to find some way to read it the way you do, but it still reads to me as nothing more than lashing out in anger. The whole tone of his comments was "how dare they criticize us/me?"
Good Lord, the Democrats and media have been beating and whipping this man AND his family for over two years and you have a problem that he turns around and takes a punch?
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The Democrats, Media, and Progressives all have SELECTIVE MEMORY. Where statements are misread, misprinted, partially printed, and taken way out of context. All these groups parrot is that Trump said "Go back to where you came from" in an effort to paint him as a xenophobe.
Also, because a few of them have slightly tan skin, and they are female he is racist and sexist. Now in calling Baltimore "rat infested" the Media now believes Rats = Blacks. So that is racist too.
And what happens? The biased MSM (95%+ of the media) communicates all of this as FACT and it gets repeated by the people that watch and listen to them. The media wants everyone to think the majority of Americans HATE Trump and think he's racist, sexist, homophobic and xenophobic, and can't wait to vote for ANYONE BUT TRUMP.
Sorry that is false. There are going to be a lot more crying, screaming, upset, spoiled little Progressive children come election night, yet again.
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Dems ARE ignoring the conditions in their cities, and people ARE waking up and fighting back. This gal says Cummings only cares about illegals and impeaching President Trump. She’s not going to be quiet anymore. Nor should the President.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1945356878817544?view=permalink&id=2640335235986368&refid=18&_ft_=qid.6719222292642134457%3Amf_story_key.2640335235986368%3Agroup_id.1945356878817544%3Atop_level_post_id.2640335235986368%3Atl_objid.2640335235986368%3Acontent_owner_id_new.100001393971689%3Asrc.22%3Astory_location.6&__tn__=%2As%2As-R
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Some of us don't seem to think the President should ever push back. The other day Cummings tore into a Border Patrol guy in a hearing. Was yelling at the guy like he was some kind of kid. The President showed that person that he has his back and isn't going to allow his people to be treated in that manner.
What he tweeted was far from being racist, it was, indeed, factual in nature.
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And what the deuce is Cummings doing 1300 miles from his district, yelling at Border Control agents who are trying to keep illegals from entering the United States? Baltimore is a huge center of MS-13 activity. Cummings has been in office since 1996. Given the trash heap his district has spawned, how does he keep getting re-elected?
Answer: He is a person of politically preferred pigmentation, and a Dim, so loyalty trumps competence.
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So you and bflynn prefer a Republican who is meek, mild, and must take a daily beating and never open their mouth in protest, like George W. Bush.
Sorry. I prefer a man who fights back when he’s treated unfairly, particularly when it seems the only people in his corner are us unelected Americans, and who is being attacked by democrats, many republicans and the MSM every single minute.
No, you're putting words in our mouths.
You aren't inclined to understand, so you never will.
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No, he is an asshole and I don't like him as president.
Lots of people can do good things without being an asshole. Let's have one of them.
Can you one besides President Trump that was good for freedom, fewer regulations, he did away with 11 regulations for every new one enacted, stocks, and employment???
No????
Didn’t think so.
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No, you're putting words in our mouths.
You aren't inclined to understand, so you never will.
It's interesting that some people complain about others putting words in their mouths and refusing to understand.
Compare and contrast that to what people claim President Trump has said and why he said it.
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So you and bflynn prefer a Republican who is meek, mild, and must take a daily beating and never open their mouth in protest, like George W. Bush.
Sorry. I prefer a man who fights back when he’s treated unfairly, particularly when it seems the only people in his corner are us unelected Americans, and who is being attacked by democrats, many republicans and the MSM every single minute.
Actually, the last president I had sincere respect for was W's dad, Bush 41. I didn't think much of Clinton or Bush 43, liked Obama a bit more than either of those and especially liked him when he took out OBL. But his bright moments were few and far between.
I do want a strong President... and that's part of what I have against Trump. To me he doesn't come across as strong when he fights back the way he does, he comes across as weak and insecure. I just want him to show some class, not necessarily to just sit back and take it.
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So how would you reword Trump’s tweet, azure? Let’s face it ... if POTUS is silent, the rabid Dems control the narrative. He has to stay in play.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BrandonStraka/status/1155504955341574145
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Actually, the last president I had sincere respect for was W's dad, Bush 41. I didn't think much of Clinton or Bush 43, liked Obama a bit more than either of those and especially liked him when he took out OBL. But his bright moments were few and far between.
I do want a strong President... and that's part of what I have against Trump. To me he doesn't come across as strong when he fights back the way he does, he comes across as weak and insecure. I just want him to show some class, not necessarily to just sit back and take it.
For the record, Seal Team 6 took out OBL, not Obama. And it was the intelligence operatives in conjunction with the military that took out OBL.
Obama's part was authorizing the mission, nothing more.
Give credit where it's due.
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For the record, Seal Team 6 took out OBL, not Obama. And it was the intelligence operatives in conjunction with the military that took out OBL.
Obama's part was authorizing the mission, nothing more.
Give credit where it's due.
Of course - literally speaking. But Obama was CIC, and it was his decision and ultimately, his responsibility.
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Of course - literally speaking. But Obama was CIC, and it was his decision and ultimately, his responsibility.
I agree. However, who let the intelligence leak about the whereabouts of Seal Team 6 when their helicopter got shot down and the all died, if memory serves?
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Of course - literally speaking. But Obama was CIC, and it was his decision and ultimately, his responsibility.
Unfortunately the left NEVER offers the same credit to President Trump because eh said something mean, and that trumps performance....
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No, you're putting words in our mouths.
You aren't inclined to understand, so you never will.
You’re a patronizing prick sometimes.
YOU said voting for Trump was voting for evil. Anthony asked you to defend it, and you stated a bunch of things you may not like, but have noting to do with evil. You don’t like his style or his rhetoric. Fine. But you sound as hyperbolic as every host on CNN.
Grow up. Posts like yours demonstrate your lack of depth on the subject as well as your dainty feelings, not any superior intelligence you attempt to portray by calling yourself a moderate.
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Of course - literally speaking. But Obama was CIC, and it was his decision and ultimately, his responsibility.
Thanks.
And while we're on the subject of CIC and making decisions, should we bring up Benghazi and what a miserable failure that was, or even "Fast and Furious"?
How about the "red line" in Syria?
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Where did he say he doesn't want to represent them? Where do you people get this stuff? If you listen to all his speeches and look at all his policy changes and their positive effects on minority demographics, you hear only that he wants to represent them and improve their lives. The ONLY people he indicates that he doesn't represent and wants to send home are ILLEGAL ALIENS. And even those he wants to streamline the immigration process and help them become citizens legally.
He said go back and fix your country of origin, then come back here and fix America if you think it's so broke. He never said they should be ejected as citizens.
He means that the double standard is in place that limits conservatives from having the same freedom to speak plainly as is currently only extended to fucking communists.
The haters simply HATE that President Trump feels just as free to have His opinion as everyone else, when the pussy brigade has set the current standard for so long they think it’s the law.
The fact that the President reflects in his tweets so much that is embraced by the majority is just more proof that he shouldn’t be allowed to speak freely.
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So how would you reword Trump’s tweet, azure? Let’s face it ... if POTUS is silent, the rabid Dems control the narrative. He has to stay in play.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BrandonStraka/status/1155504955341574145
EXACTLY! He will never be reported on fairly. Never. I was initially against his constant tweeting, and still wince on occasion, but he has mastered the ability to speak directly to 300 million Americans every single day. Masterful.
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Good Lord, the Democrats and media have been beating and whipping this man AND his family for over two years and you have a problem that he turns around and takes a punch?
Of course she does.
The left has always held a double standard whenever the topic is the left.
If leftists didn't employ double standards they would no standards at all.
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Thanks.
And while we're on the subject of CIC and making decisions, should we bring up Benghazi and what a miserable failure that was, or even "Fast and Furious"?
How about the "red line" in Syria?
Yup. As I said, his bright moments were few and far between.
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Of course - literally speaking. But Obama was CIC, and it was his decision and ultimately, his responsibility.
No, he had very little to do with it. I was particularly disgusted with his speech announcing it later where he used the word “I” and “my” so often when talking about the attack and barely mentioned the people who actually did it.
His predecessor did the same and Trump would have continued it. The stars aligned when Obama was in office.
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You’re a patronizing prick sometimes.
YOU said voting for Trump was voting for evil. Anthony asked you to defend it, and you stated a bunch of things you may not like, but have noting to do with evil. You don’t like his style or his rhetoric. Fine. But you sound as hyperbolic as every host on CNN.
Grow up. Posts like yours demonstrate your lack of depth on the subject as well as your dainty feelings, not any superior intelligence you attempt to portray by calling yourself a moderate.
The things I stated are evil to me, admittedly a lesser evil. We should not have a president that uses his office as a bully pulpit. We should not have a president that views himself as a representative of only some of the people and who is so divisive that some of the people agree. That is a bad president.
I am all for him using social media. He would be a better president if he filtered his thoughts better and wasn’t so impulsive.
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We should not have a president that views himself as a representative of only some of the people
I agree. I'm left wondering why so many people think they can read President Trump's mind.
and who is so divisive that some of the people agree.
I don't even know what that means. Typo?
I am all for him using social media. He would be a better president if he filtered his thoughts better and wasn’t so impulsive.
I agree. I wish someone had the spine to take away his twitter account or force him to use it with some class.
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Can you one besides President Trump that was good for freedom, fewer regulations, he did away with 11 regulations for every new one enacted, stocks, and employment???
No????
Didn’t think so.
Exactly.
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The things I stated are evil to me, admittedly a lesser evil. We should not have a president that uses his office as a bully pulpit. We should not have a president that views himself as a representative of only some of the people and who is so divisive that some of the people agree. That is a bad president.
I am all for him using social media. He would be a better president if he filtered his thoughts better and wasn’t so impulsive.
Obama was the worst at using the Presidency as a bully pulpit. Trayvon, the beer summit, Fundamental Transformation, You didn't build that, Obamacare, LGBT promotion, etc. It is what Presidents do, especially when they don't have the cooperation of Congress.
Yes, I do think Trump could be a better communicator, but I will take that for his good policy actions and positions. However, you are dead wrong about him only representing some of the people. His policies have helped ALL, especially with jobs and the economy. How about low energy prices partially due to his energy policy? Poor and middle income earners buy gasoline and heat their homes also.
I just think you have a prejudice against Trump due to his image and personality. You lack objectivity, and the ability to reasonably look at the big picture.
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The things I stated are evil to me, admittedly a lesser evil. We should not have a president that uses his office as a bully pulpit. We should not have a president that views himself as a representative of only some of the people and who is so divisive that some of the people agree. That is a bad president.
I am all for him using social media. He would be a better president if he filtered his thoughts better and wasn’t so impulsive.
So he’s not perfect, who is?
The fact that he lacks a veneer of class simply reflects our entire society. Look what we have descended to. Our daughters dress like sluts, men have forgotten how to wear a tie, common courtesy is vanishing, formal documents are now riddled with typos and nobody even remembers how to write a business letter because we all now communicate with texting.
Trump is the perfect icon for the 21st century. It is a miracle and our good fortune that the first President to embody this rude new era happens to promote the health of our country and its economy, rather than its destruction.
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We should not have a president that views himself as a representative of only some of the people and who is so divisive that some of the people agree. That is a bad president.
So he shouldn't stand up for the Black population of Baltimore by calling out their Congressman? Hmmmm. BTW, what was the $18B spent on in Cummings district?
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Sure they can criticize the U.S., but the President also has freedom of speech. What he said was, Go back to where you came from, make it better, then COME BACK and tell us how you did it. I don't see that as hateful, or evil, or being an asshole. He's standing up, and responding to the nasty opinions of these four Jihadists.
The President's job is to respond, and give rebuttals to the opposition. He did just that.
Exactly. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism. The president is not ordering them out of the country and backing it up with force. He's defending the idea of the country: if you don't like it then leave. Or fix it. Don't just sit and spout crap. I WANT my president to defend my country and stand up to all those who dump on it.
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Exactly - Trump is not perfect and has significant faults that limit his effectiveness. Additionally, I don't like him.
I'm willing to consider if anyone else would be better.
Sorry I can't respond to everyone individually, but when the group thing gets going and everyone is quoting me and responding, I just don't have the time or energy to spend a couple of hours writing responses here.
BTW, I'm not on the left, but this is why people on the left don't come here and this place becomes an echo chamber.
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BTW, I'm not on the left, but this is why people on the left don't come here and this place becomes an echo chamber.
Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone say you were "on the left". The fact that a few, or even several people disagree with you shouldn't be a reason to go hide, for you, nor anyone else.
I think the reason that there are only a few people that lean Left here is that they can not defend their positions with facts, evidence, nor logical arguments. They are usually based in only emotion. (not talking specifically about you) They get frustrated, and yes sometimes there are some harsh responses, but sticks and stones, ya know?
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Exactly - Trump is not perfect and has significant faults that limit his effectiveness. Additionally, I don't like him.
I'm willing to consider if anyone else would be better.
Sorry I can't respond to everyone individually, but when the group thing gets going and everyone is quoting me and responding, I just don't have the time or energy to spend a couple of hours writing responses here.
BTW, I'm not on the left, but this is why people on the left don't come here and this place becomes an echo chamber.
You're not wrong about that, I realize the conservative/libertarian side here predominates and piles onto the liberal/left and I don't like when they go away because I don't want this to just be an echo chamber.
And you have a point, if people assume you are leftist just because you dislike Trump. I am always very curious about people's exact stand on specific issues, because that's what defines where you are on the political spectrum.
To drill down to the core as far as I am concerned, "the left" is for centralized control of the economy by government. This has many names and forms including socialism, communism, and also some "right wing" dictators who control their people's economies.
But in common usage, "the left" also means being a social liberal, like being pro gay marriage and pro choice.
For me, being "on the right" or "a conservative" means being pro capitalism, but NOT as some on the left think, being for big mega companies and monopolies. In my mind, "capitalism" really means free enterprise on the smallest individual level, not just free to run a small business but free to negotiate salary and wage with an employer. Government should stay completely out of it as the free market usually solves complex market problems organically. Being "on the left" means government should meddle in the market from regulating it to actually confiscating money and redistributing it through it's own sausage machine.
To me, your stand on economics is much more important than your stand on social issues or moral issues because without an economy, everyone starves and dies and the rest doesn't matter. So when you say you are not "on the left", what exactly do you mean?
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The things I stated are evil to me, admittedly a lesser evil. We should not have a president that uses his office as a bully pulpit. We should not have a president that views himself as a representative of only some of the people and who is so divisive that some of the people agree. That is a bad president.
I am all for him using social media. He would be a better president if he filtered his thoughts better and wasn’t so impulsive.
That’s ridiculous. The POTUS is the ultimate bully pulpit.
“Bully pulpit - NOUN - a public office or position of authority that provides its occupant with an outstanding opportunity to speak out on any issue.”
In fact, the world hinges on the words spoken from this bully pulpit.
From 2008-2016 the world heard the US was an unexceptional, flawed and shamed country not worthy of being a super power.
From 2016 to now the world is hearing that the US is exceptional, is the true leader of the free world, and can exert it’s influence when it benefits the US and the world.
If you only hear that the president feels that he is representative of only some of the people, then you have been indoctrinated by CNN and their ilk, and have not actually listed to one of his many rallies and speeches.
Unlike Obama, who for 8 years poked his bony finger in my chest and told me that I’m flawed, racist, and wrong, Trump’s speeches are filled with pro-American, pro-citizen, and pro-exceptionalism. You CLEARLY have not listened to them. He embraces minorities. You wouldn’t know that by listening to the MSM.
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Exactly - Trump is not perfect and has significant faults that limit his effectiveness. Additionally, I don't like him.
I'm willing to consider if anyone else would be better.
Sorry I can't respond to everyone individually, but when the group thing gets going and everyone is quoting me and responding, I just don't have the time or energy to spend a couple of hours writing responses here.
BTW, I'm not on the left, but this is why people on the left don't come here and this place becomes an echo chamber.
It’s always helpful when you tell one of us:
“You aren’t inclined to understand, so you never will.”
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Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone say you were "on the left". The fact that a few, or even several people disagree with you shouldn't be a reason to go hide, for you, nor anyone else.
I think the reason that there are only a few people that lean Left here is that they can not defend their positions with facts, evidence, nor logical arguments. They are usually based in only emotion. (not talking specifically about you) They get frustrated, and yes sometimes there are some harsh responses, but sticks and stones, ya know?
Well exactly. When bflynn says that Trump only wants to represent some of the country, but not all of it, that’s just an idiotic, hyperbolic emotion born either of ignorance or regurgitation of the left’s mouthpieces. Either way they aren’t even worthy of a thoughtful response.
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So he shouldn't stand up for the Black population of Baltimore by calling out their Congressman? Hmmmm. BTW, what was the $18B spent on in Cummings district?
Rat breeding programs from what I understand.
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Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone say you were "on the left". The fact that a few, or even several people disagree with you shouldn't be a reason to go hide, for you, nor anyone else.
I think the reason that there are only a few people that lean Left here is that they can not defend their positions with facts, evidence, nor logical arguments. They are usually based in only emotion. (not talking specifically about you) They get frustrated, and yes sometimes there are some harsh responses, but sticks and stones, ya know?
Who is hiding? I have been busier than crap with work, plus just got back from a spur of the moment 2.4 hour cross country. Talk about your straw men.
N7 has accused me of being a socialist in the past, but that wasn’t what I was referring to. It was merely a counter point - I’m not one of them, but here’s why they don’t show up much. When you can’t have a productive conversation because so many people are pulling in different directions, it’s just not fun, so why do it? I think there are at least seven people all trying to reply to me, put words in my mouth and tell me why I’m wrong. I don’t need the grief, it makes me decide to do other things, like go flying.
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To drill down to the core as far as I am concerned, "the left" is for centralized control of the economy by government. This has many names and forms including socialism, communism, and also some "right wing" dictators who control their people's economies.
But in common usage, "the left" also means being a social liberal, like being pro gay marriage and pro choice.
For me, being "on the right" or "a conservative" means being pro capitalism, but NOT as some on the left think, being for big mega companies and monopolies. In my mind, "capitalism" really means free enterprise on the smallest individual level, not just free to run a small business but free to negotiate salary and wage with an employer. Government should stay completely out of it as the free market usually solves complex market problems organically. Being "on the left" means government should meddle in the market from regulating it to actually confiscating money and redistributing it through it's own sausage machine.
It’s a good deal more complicated that this. By your explanation, I am on the left because I am generally a social liberal. Who cares what other people do, live and let live. You wanna fry your brain with drugs, go for it. You want to play house with two men or two women or pretend that you’re not what God made you - who are we to tell you that you can’t. In light of the freedom that is a hallmark of America, that would be ridiculous.
On the other hand, I strongly believe in mostly free markets and Adam Smiths invisible hand. There are times when men don’t behave, when they create what economists call externalities and they hurt others without knowing or sometimes without caring. In those cases, people have to be reigned in because they have crossed that line from “who cares what you do” to harming others. Governments being involved with markets create some stability, but they can royally screw things up...the military complex for the first example, but the housing bubble for the second, good and bad examples of government involvement.
So I settle on moderate liberal.
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It’s a good deal more complicated that this. By your explanation, I am on the left because I am generally a social liberal. Who cares what other people do, live and let live. You wanna fry your brain with drugs, go for it. You want to play house with two men or two women or pretend that you’re not what God made you - who are we to tell you that you can’t. In light of the freedom that is a hallmark of America, that would be ridiculous.
That's pretty much where I am, but I refer to it more as "classic Liberal" or even Libertarian. Add, just leave me the f*ck alone also, and stop trying to further restrict or even ban/confiscate my legally owned guns.
On the other hand, I strongly believe in mostly free markets and Adam Smiths invisible hand. There are times when men don’t behave, when they create what economists call externalities and they hurt others without knowing or sometimes without caring. In those cases, people have to be reigned in because they have crossed that line from “who cares what you do” to harming others. Governments being involved with markets create some stability, but they can royally screw things up...the military complex for the first example, but the housing bubble for the second, good and bad examples of government involvement.
So I settle on moderate liberal.
I believe in a modified free market in an attempt to stop abuses, but I do think we need to allow the market to self correct as artificial government intervention often does more harm than good. I firmly believe Obama extended the recession, and hindered the recovery. It was very tepid. Same wit FDR. However, as we know, a lot of people scream for government to do something, anything. People overeact and get oerly emotional.
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Who is hiding? I have been busier than crap with work, plus just got back from a spur of the moment 2.4 hour cross country. Talk about your straw men.
N7 has accused me of being a socialist in the past, but that wasn’t what I was referring to. It was merely a counter point - I’m not one of them, but here’s why they don’t show up much. When you can’t have a productive conversation because so many people are pulling in different directions, it’s just not fun, so why do it? I think there are at least seven people all trying to reply to me, put words in my mouth and tell me why I’m wrong. I don’t need the grief, it makes me decide to do other things, like go flying.
so, you think only a limited number of can reply to a post?
you complain about people who "put words in my mouth." Do you have a problem with people putting words in President Trump's mouth?
but the bottomline is: going flying is always a good thing.
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It’s a good deal more complicated that this. By your explanation, I am on the left because I am generally a social liberal. Who cares what other people do, live and let live. You wanna fry your brain with drugs, go for it. You want to play house with two men or two women or pretend that you’re not what God made you - who are we to tell you that you can’t. In light of the freedom that is a hallmark of America, that would be ridiculous.
On the other hand, I strongly believe in mostly free markets and Adam Smiths invisible hand. There are times when men don’t behave, when they create what economists call externalities and they hurt others without knowing or sometimes without caring. In those cases, people have to be reigned in because they have crossed that line from “who cares what you do” to harming others. Governments being involved with markets create some stability, but they can royally screw things up...the military complex for the first example, but the housing bubble for the second, good and bad examples of government involvement.
So I settle on moderate liberal.
That’s pretty much a libertarian and exactly what I am. In core beliefs anyway but there might be great differences in details, like for example when is an externality something a government needs to interfere with? Or people should be free to be whatever gender they want but should there be a law forcing me to call them a certain pronoun? I have a theory that many of us are actually closer in ideology than we think we are but we differ in these details and so think we are far apart.
I said common usage has the term “left” applied to being social liberal, but to me social issues are more on the “conservative / liberal” spectrum, not the “right / left” spectrum. To me the terms “right” and “left” should apply to economics and political structure. But that’s just me. People have all kinds of different definitions of these terms. I think that’s part of the problem because we pigeonhole each other too easily.
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so, you think only a limited number of can reply to a post?
I think you are putting words in his mouth. When a dozen people quote you and misinterpret what you say, or even if they interpret you accurately, who wants to reply to a dozen people individually.
you complain about people who "put words in my mouth." Do you have a problem with people putting words in President Trump's mouth?
I personally DO have a big problem with that. Just like I have a problem when people put words in Flynn's mouth or Azure's mouth or MY mouth. Like when some dickhead (not you) tells me I want to be a moderator because I was surprised we suddenly had moderators.
Rather than saying "So, you think . . .", why don't you instead ask "Do you think . . ."? It is much less obnoxious that way.
but the bottom line is: going flying is always a good thing.
Can't argue with that at all. The Bonanza hasn't been up for two weeks, but we are going up tomorrow. Don't know where yet though. Maybe St. Pete for lunch.
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I think you are putting words in his mouth. When a dozen people quote you and misinterpret what you say, or even if they interpret you accurately, who wants to reply to a dozen people individually.
I personally DO have a big problem with that. Just like I have a problem when people put words in Flynn's mouth or Azure's mouth or MY mouth. Like when some dickhead (not you) tells me I want to be a moderator because I was surprised we suddenly had moderators.
Rather than saying "So, you think . . .", why don't you instead ask "Do you think . . ."? It is much less obnoxious that way.
I think we can sometimes create a hostile environment here, and I am guilty of it also. I have tried to be less caustic in my responses to people in which I disagree. Sometimes it is hard due to the OCCASIONAL leftist poster saying some really hateful things which I believe is to just get a reaction and stroke his "intellectual" ego. I think you know who I mean.
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I think we can sometimes create a hostile environment here, and I am guilty of it also. I have tried to be less caustic in my responses to people in which I disagree. Sometimes it is hard due to the OCCASIONAL poster saying some really hateful things which I believe is to just get a reaction and stroke his ego. I think you know who I mean.
I have noticed that. Thank you.
This coming from someone that loses it occasionally too.
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It’s a good deal more complicated that this. By your explanation, I am on the left because I am generally a social liberal. Who cares what other people do, live and let live. You wanna fry your brain with drugs, go for it. You want to play house with two men or two women or pretend that you’re not what God made you - who are we to tell you that you can’t. In light of the freedom that is a hallmark of America, that would be ridiculous.
I agree with this. However, don't expect me to pay for your choices. Don't force me to accept or endorse what you do.
Fry your brain with drugs, great. Go for it. Just leave enough money for your burial or hospitalization. I don't care who or what you have sex with. Just do it in the privacy of your own home. Keep it away from me. Chop off body parts and add new ones? Fine. Just be sure you can pay for it yourself. Your freedoms stop when they impact mine. (Using "you" in the general and not specific sense.)
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I agree with this. However, don't expect me to pay for your choices. Don't force me to accept or endorse what you do.
Fry your brain with drugs, great. Go for it. Just leave enough money for your burial or hospitalization. I don't care who or what you have sex with. Just do it in the privacy of your own home. Keep it away from me. Chop off body parts and add new ones? Fine. Just be sure you can pay for it yourself. Your freedoms stop when they impact mine. (Using "you" in the general and not specific sense.)
Very good points We do have a lot of the special interest groups saying they want equal rights and "equality" when in reality they want special treatment and "equity" meaning Equal OUTCOMES.
No. That requires taking rights and property (income) away from me to give them special treatment, whether it be Affirmative Action, or being required to celebrate, promote, and glorify LGBT.
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Who is hiding? I have been busier than crap with work, plus just got back from a spur of the moment 2.4 hour cross country. Talk about your straw men.
N7 has accused me of being a socialist in the past, but that wasn’t what I was referring to. It was merely a counter point - I’m not one of them, but here’s why they don’t show up much. When you can’t have a productive conversation because so many people are pulling in different directions, it’s just not fun, so why do it? I think there are at least seven people all trying to reply to me, put words in my mouth and tell me why I’m wrong. I don’t need the grief, it makes me decide to do other things, like go flying.
You are correct. Go to Members and sort by how many posts and you can see all the conservatives and libertarians. I think there's only 3 liberal or far left and one moderate. Lots of Spinmasters however which we don't know where they are, but based on the visible ones if the trend follows, liberals really are outnumbered.
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Sometimes I think I know how a lone girl in the bar must feel... ;)
BTW, just passed 200 hours last night. For me, that's an accomplishment given how much time I have to fly and it only took me 10 years to do it. Sigh.
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Sometimes I think I know how a lone girl in the bar must feel... ;)
BTW, just passed 200 hours last night. For me, that's an accomplishment given how much time I have to fly and it only took me 10 years to do it. Sigh.
Congrats!
I've never been a lone girl in a bar but I've been the lone straight girl in a bar. The lone straight person period actually.
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I think you are putting words in his mouth. When a dozen people quote you and misinterpret what you say, or even if they interpret you accurately, who wants to reply to a dozen people individually.
I personally DO have a big problem with that. Just like I have a problem when people put words in Flynn's mouth or Azure's mouth or MY mouth. Like when some dickhead (not you) tells me I want to be a moderator because I was surprised we suddenly had moderators.
Rather than saying "So, you think . . .", why don't you instead ask "Do you think . . ."? It is much less obnoxious that way.
Can't argue with that at all. The Bonanza hasn't been up for two weeks, but we are going up tomorrow. Don't know where yet though. Maybe St. Pete for lunch.
Still have the Bo? Nice! Too bad those things can’t fly as far as, say, OSH. ;)
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Sometimes I think I know how a lone girl in the bar must feel... ;)
BTW, just passed 200 hours last night. For me, that's an accomplishment given how much time I have to fly and it only took me 10 years to do it. Sigh.
Congrats! Working on any ratings? That helps with the hours.
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Still have the Bo? Nice! Too bad those things can’t fly as far as, say, OSH. ;)
Well, we could make the 950nm to KOSH in one leg, but we would have ZERO reserve when we got there. We'd probably be gliding in (with full gator aid bottles). Last year, on our trip to Canada, we tried for KOSH. We were on the approach when the controller said parking was full and unless we had reservations we couldn't park. So we just detoured up to Sault Sainte Marie, MI to file EFIS for entry to Canada.
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Well, we could make the 950nm to KOSH in one leg, but we would have ZERO reserve when we got there. We'd probably be gliding in (with full gator aid bottles). Last year, on our trip to Canada, we tried for KOSH. We were on the approach when the controller said parking was full and unless we had reservations we couldn't park. So we just detoured up to Sault Sainte Marie, MI to file EFIS for entry to Canada.
Can’t fuel stop anywhere? ???
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Can’t fuel stop anywhere? ???
Of course we could, and did. But Stan asked if the Bo could make as far as KOSH. I assumed he meant in one leg. We made it to Anchorage (from Florida) last year, but that took a couple of fuels stops too.
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Of course we could, and did. But Stan asked if the Bo could make as far as KOSH. I assumed he meant in one leg. We made it to Anchorage (from Florida) last year, but that took a couple of fuels stops too.
I think Stan was kidding. :)
You must have tip tanks, right?
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I think Stan was kidding. :)
You must have tip tanks, right?
No tip tanks. Two, forty gallon wing tanks with 3 gallons unusable in each given 74 gallons usable. 950 nm at 170kts = 5.6 hours at 13 gph = 73 gallons Plus 1 gallon reserve.
I figured he was kidding, that's why I mentioned the gator aid bottle as a counter joke.
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No tip tanks. Two, forty gallon wing tanks with 3 gallons unusable in each given 74 gallons usable. 950 nm at 170kts = 5.6 hours at 13 gph = 73 gallons Plus 1 gallon reserve.
I figured he was kidding, that's why I mentioned the gator aid bottle as a counter joke.
I wasn’t kidding, but I didn’t mean to imply no fuel stops! Hell I’m in my late 50s. 2.5 hours and my bladder is saying “no mas!”
One Bo dropped a wing landing on 18R and bounced. HARD. If you can find the video it will show what not to do. I also think he could have gotten wake turbulence from the Ford Tri-Motor that landed about 20 seconds before the Bo did.
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I wasn’t kidding, but I didn’t mean to imply no fuel stops! Hell I’m in my late 50s. 2.5 hours and my bladder is saying “no mas!”
One Bo dropped a wing landing on 18R and bounced. HARD. If you can find the video it will show what not to do. I also think he could have gotten wake turbulence from the Ford Tri-Motor that landed about 20 seconds before the Bo did.
Here’s a screen shot. Someone posted it on an EAA FB page. From this point it landed on its left wing and left gear leg, bounced about 100’ up, applied some power and landed about 1,000’ farther down the runway. I think the left gear collapsed after it stopped but not sure. I was on the shift after this and saw this plane being towed behind a mechanic trick with the hoist lifting it up by the prop area.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190731/b78c4f9df8a46ac06df41b187a9c84f3.jpg)
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I was on the shift after this and saw this plane being towed behind a mechanic trick with the hoist lifting it up by the prop area.
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The left gear collapsed on the first impact. In the video, you can see it swinging freely.
I'm thinking stall because you can see the momentary pull on the elevator just as he is increasing the bank angle. A little wake turbulence from the Ford probably didn't help.
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The left gear collapsed on the first impact. In the video, you can see it swinging freely.
I'm thinking stall because you can see the momentary pull on the elevator just as he is increasing the bank angle. A little wake turbulence from the Ford probably didn't help.
I haven't watched it yet, but did he stall it due to speed/bank angle?
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I haven't watched it yet, but did he stall it due to speed/bank angle?
Hard to tell. Of course it made it to YouTube.
https://youtu.be/7ybdaJcrFhE
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Hard to tell. Of course it made it to YouTube.
https://youtu.be/7ybdaJcrFhE
Yikes, not good. At least nobody was hurt. It could have been a lot worse. That Tri Motor looks like a handful. What a pig. Classic pig though. :)
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Hard to tell. Of course it made it to YouTube.
https://youtu.be/7ybdaJcrFhE
I saw Russian interference on his ruddervator which caused a delayed flare. Putin, for sure, was behind it.
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Yikes, not good. At least nobody was hurt. It could have been a lot worse. That Tri Motor looks like a handful. What a pig. Classic pig though. :)
When I’m working the threshold of 18 with a 36 operation the Tri-Motors take an EXTREMELY SHORT intersection takeoff - probably 1,500’ max, and are coming over our heads at 100-250’ when they are making their turn to the east. It’s at first cool, but I always have an egress direction in case shit happens on takeoff, notwithstanding it has 3 engines.
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It was more of a heavy mush than a full stall break, but it happened just as he increased bank angle a little. However it's also when he flew through the Ford's wake - maybe 50' under the Ford's path, so that's why I say combination.
I'm convinced that we should be able to have stall detection software on every plane by now and warn pilots when they approach the envelope. It needs an AHRS and some kind of indicated airspeed over the wings. Should not be rocket science.
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Several consecutive screen grabs -
Ford vs Bo flight path, about 15 seconds between them.
Increase in bank
Note elevator in rise position, nose down attitude.
gear collapsed on initial crash, wing on the ground
gear swinging freely after the initial contact
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3682.0;attach=1114)
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He didn't have a prop strike did he? Testament to the Bonanza's "hell for stout" landing gear.
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Hard to tell. Of course it made it to YouTube.
https://youtu.be/7ybdaJcrFhE
Looks like some of my landings. Course I have stronger gear...
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I'm convinced that we should be able to have stall detection software on every plane by now and warn pilots when they approach the envelope. It needs an AHRS and some kind of indicated airspeed over the wings. Should not be rocket science.
Why is an AHRS needed for stall warning?
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Why is an AHRS needed for stall warning?
Agreed.
I will say I’m intrigued by AOA indicators. I know many military aircraft have it, but I’ve not flown in a GA aircraft that had one.
At OSH I saw a vendor that had an AOA indicator in a small heads up display. Pretty cool.
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Agreed.
I will say I’m intrigued by AOA indicators. I know many military aircraft have it, but I’ve not flown in a GA aircraft that had one.
At OSH I saw a vendor that had an AOA indicator in a small heads up display. Pretty cool.
The modern AOA sensors are far superior to the old style. I'm really surprised no one has tried to adapt something similar to GA, but with certification cost, liability and a relatively small market that may have a lot to do with it.
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I would think the stall warning horn was going off in that Bonanza.
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I would think the stall warning horn was going off in that Bonanza.
Almost certainly - but only if the thing is working properly.
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Almost certainly - but only if the thing is working properly.
Well, that is an airworthiness issue, although it could have failed during that flight, but I highly doubt it.
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Well, that is an airworthiness issue, although it could have failed during that flight, but I highly doubt it.
Agreed. But I have to admit that I don't preflight mine consistently, especially if it has gone off recently in flight (usually during a landing). I should definitely be more consistent about this, and I suspect the same is true of many pilots. It's always possible that the Bonanza pilot's failed at some point and he just wasn't aware.
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Yikes, not good. At least nobody was hurt. It could have been a lot worse. That Tri Motor looks like a handful. What a pig. Classic pig though. :)
I have about 0.6 in the right seat, obtained for free when the EAA's TM was touring near Philly. It flys like a big kite. The wings are so big a thermal on one side will lift the wing so it takes constant correction with coordinated rudder to keep it going straight.
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I have about 0.6 in the right seat, obtained for free when the EAA's TM was touring near Philly. It flys like a big kite. The wings are so big a thermal on one side will lift the wing so it takes constant correction with coordinated rudder to keep it going straight.
That's cool. Yeah, underpowered, thick wing, low wing loading. Reminds me of my old Cherokee. lol.