PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: bflynn on December 17, 2019, 06:52:49 AM
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Of course Giuliani has been in Ukraine for a while. He was obviously the link that got the Ambassador fired and that's been confirmed.
Question - does his admission that he's been working on getting Ukraine to investigate the Bidens cause problems for Trump? With the admission that Giuliani has been working on getting an investigation going, it seems to me like that complicates things for impeachment. There's no doubt that Giuliani's purpose is to cause problems for Biden and that's legal. But it changes the context of why the president wanted a favor of the investigation. He previously said it was to ensure corruption was not happening and we have to take that as his word. But at the same time, his attack dog was digging up the dirt to make the investigation go, so it appears to have other motives.
Giuliani should have kept his mouth shut. At this point it appears that both Trump and Biden are in trouble.
Flame away, I maintain that this is not a good look for Trump.
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The President of the US (Whoever it is) has the right to investigate how our money (taxpayers) is being spent in foreign countries.
Ukraine is a hot bed of corruption. We have been sending millions upon millions of our dollars in "aid" in which we now know huge sums of that have been involved in various corruption.
The whole "Ukraine Hoax" was started because President Trump wanted to find out what was going on in Ukraine before we committed even more money to them. This set off alarms within the establishment because too many of them are involved in the corruption. Names like Biden, Kerry, Clinton, Schiff, Pelosi and even several prominent republicans. The last thing they want is their personal piggy bank called Ukraine to be done away with, or worse yet for it to be exposed what their involvement is.
Same thing with Afghanistan. Yet another corrupt country that our leaders in the establishment have long been milking away billions of our dollars for their personal gain.
That's what's driving this whole race to impeach bullshit. The lights have been turned on and the roaches are scattering. And they know if Trump gets a second term even more of their corruption is going to come to light.
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The whole "Ukraine Hoax" was started because President Trump wanted to find out what was going on in Ukraine before we committed even more money to them.
In light of Giuliani's admission that he was in Ukraine to get them to investigate the Biden's, this statement is no longer convincing to me.
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Oh how establishment (swamp) dwellers wish they could spin the Ukraine corruption into a “problem” for President Trump.
It’s all bullshit created so easily scammed people would turn away from the real crimes and allow the bribes to keep flowing.
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In light of Giuliani's admission that he was in Ukraine to get them to investigate the Biden's, this statement is no longer convincing to me.
There is no evidence but what the MEDIA invented to indicate Trump was doing anything but investigating the potential corruption of a former Vice President. If you have something actually FROM THE TRANSCRIPT, and not the Media's "interpretation", please post it.
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Whenever liberals can’t find a fact to hang on the President they all parrot the same line that always includes the “problem” problem, as if making believe bullshit doesn’t stink makes it a rose.
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There is no evidence but what the MEDIA invented to indicate Trump was doing anything but investigating the potential corruption of a former Vice President. If you have something actually FROM THE TRANSCRIPT, and not the Media's "interpretation", please post it.
It's buried in one of the Fox stories about Giuliani this morning. Have to jump into a meeting, hopefully will have time later today.
Bottom line, he said that he was there to get the Bidens investigated. He promises to have a whole slew of evidence against them. But he's working for Trump's campaign.
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It's buried in one of the Fox stories about Giuliani this morning. Have to jump into a meeting, hopefully will have time later today.
Bottom line, he said that he was there to get the Bidens investigated. He promises to have a whole slew of evidence against them. But he's working for Trump's campaign.
Guiliani is Trump's LEGAL council.
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It's buried in one of the Fox stories about Giuliani this morning. Have to jump into a meeting, hopefully will have time later today.
Bottom line, he said that he was there to get the Bidens investigated. He promises to have a whole slew of evidence against them. But he's working for Trump's campaign.
Is what Giuliani is doing illegal? Is it illegal for someone to ask a foreign country to investigate corruption by a US citizen in that country? Even if Giuliani is Trump's legal council, working for Trump's campaign, and it benefits Trump? I don't see that it violates any laws.
Leaders in that foreign country are not compelled in any way to comply.
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Guiliani is Trump's LEGAL council.
Presidents throughout history have used personal envoys to work on their behalf. This is nothing new.
The Biden's are up to their neck in corruption with regards to the Ukraine. The dims and the MSM are trying to bury it. And a big part of the Biden corruption involves US financial aid.
Again, the establishment types are freaking out because the lights are being turned on, and they're being exposed. The MSM is trying to cover for them by parlaying this as Trump is investigating political rivals.
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Flynn is plying the projection defense.
Project the crimes of your side onto your opponent and then act concerned about it.
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Once again some seem unable to separate Democrat Presidential hopeful Joe Biden from former Vice President Joe Biden.
While still Vice President, Hunter Biden got put on the board by Burisma, admittedly by Hunter himself, because of his last name and quite likely with help form his Dad. Would a company in the U.S place a dishonorably discharged coke head on their BOD?
Lo and behold a Ukraine prosecutor begins to investigate Burisma for corruption and, wouldn't you know it, Joe Biden manages to get him fired.
Do you not want to know what really happened there and how Vice President Biden was connected to that?
BTW, Democrat Presidential hopeful Joe Biden is leading in the polls, apparently Democrats don't care what kind of shit he did in the Ukraine.
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Once again some seem unable to separate Democrat Presidential hopeful Joe Biden from former Vice President Joe Biden.
While still Vice President, Hunter Biden got put on the board by Burisma, admittedly by Hunter himself, because of his last name and quite likely with help form his Dad. Would a company in the U.S place a dishonorably discharged coke head on their BOD?
Lo and behold a Ukraine prosecutor begins to investigate Burisma for corruption and, wouldn't you know it, Joe Biden manages to get him fired.
Do you not want to know what really happened there and how Vice President Biden was connected to that?
BTW, Democrat Presidential hopeful Joe Biden is leading in the polls, apparently Democrats don't care what kind of shit he did in the Ukraine.
Let's add something else: Joe Biden has not won the democrat nomination to run in 2020. So calling him a political rival is somewhat trivial. Anyone can run for president, and running for president does not exempt someone from a corruption investigation.
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Come on, it’s obvious. Trump got Giuliani to do his dirty work so he (Trump) could appear innocent. Steingar or Kristen or somebody told us this already. It’s the explanation for why there is zero evidence Trump did anything wrong. Pay attention people.
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Guiliani is Trump's LEGAL council.
True. So why is he giving interviews about what he's doing? I miss the good old days when lawyers didn't talk about what they did for their clients.
But that doesn't make it better. If he was working for Trump, then he went to Ukraine to find dirt on the Bidens for the purpose of exposing them. That's absolutely legitimate, he can do that.
But now you cannot convince me that Trump didn't ask Zelensky to investigate as part of the same thing, exactly because he had already sent his personal representative to Ukraine to do the same thing. That requires doublethink, that Trump was acting on a personal basis in sending Giuliani to do this, but he was acting out of patriotic motivation when talking to Zelensky?
Now you'd have to say that Trump sent Giuliani to Ukraine out of patriotic motivation and that dog don't hunt.
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But now you cannot convince me that Trump didn't ask Zelensky to investigate as part of the same thing, exactly because he had already sent his personal representative to Ukraine to do the same thing. That requires doublethink, that Trump was acting on a personal basis in sending Giuliani to do this, but he was acting out of patriotic motivation when talking to Zelensky?
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Do you not recognize that people can personal objectives and also patriotic objectives?
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True. So why is he giving interviews about what he's doing? I miss the good old days when lawyers didn't talk about what they did for their clients.
But that doesn't make it better. If he was working for Trump, then he went to Ukraine to find dirt on the Bidens for the purpose of exposing them. That's absolutely legitimate, he can do that.
But now you cannot convince me that Trump didn't ask Zelensky to investigate as part of the same thing, exactly because he had already sent his personal representative to Ukraine to do the same thing. That requires doublethink, that Trump was acting on a personal basis in sending Giuliani to do this, but he was acting out of patriotic motivation when talking to Zelensky?
Now you'd have to say that Trump sent Giuliani to Ukraine out of patriotic motivation and that dog don't hunt.
Well now you're just speculating on intent. Possible yes, but again just speculation like many of the Democrats and their phony "witnesses".
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True. So why is he giving interviews about what he's doing? I miss the good old days when lawyers didn't talk about what they did for their clients.
But that doesn't make it better. If he was working for Trump, then he went to Ukraine to find dirt on the Bidens for the purpose of exposing them. That's absolutely legitimate, he can do that.
But now you cannot convince me that Trump didn't ask Zelensky to investigate as part of the same thing, exactly because he had already sent his personal representative to Ukraine to do the same thing. That requires doublethink, that Trump was acting on a personal basis in sending Giuliani to do this, but he was acting out of patriotic motivation when talking to Zelensky?
Now you'd have to say that Trump sent Giuliani to Ukraine out of patriotic motivation and that dog don't hunt.
You're ignoring the much, much larger picture here and accepting the MSM narrative as fact.
It's been known within the establishment that Biden, Kerry and a few others have been milking the Ukraine for financial gain, and using taxpayer dollars to accomplish this. By virtue that the President sets foreign policy, and has taken an oath to uphold our laws, he has every right to make sure foreign aid is appropriate, and to investigate (or have investigated) when corruption is involved with that foreign aid.
Please go read the transcript of the phone call. Please go read the depositions and testimonies of the witnesses in the house impeachment inquiry. If you do, you will see none of this was politically motivated. None.
The establishment is freaking out because the lights have been turned on, and they are being exposed in corruption using foreign aid, which is a criminal offense (several actually).
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https://thefederalist.com/2019/12/16/ukrainian-oligarch-paid-700000-to-the-husband-of-a-house-judiciary-committee-democrat/
Robert Powell, the husband of Rep. Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, D-Fla., reportedly took $700,000 from a Ukrainian oligarch named Igor Kolomoisky. Mucarsel-Powell sits on the House Judiciary Committee, the committee that drafted two articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump for his alleged abuse of power with regards to Ukraine.
In 2018, the Daily Beast reported that a number of businesses linked to Kolomoisky hired Powell as an attorney. One of those firms paid Powell at least $700,000 over two years, according to public records.
The Miami Herald reported Powell was working for companies tied to Kolomoisky for 10 years. Powell made most of his money in the two years leading up to his wife’s election in 2018.
Kolomoisky has been accused of contract killings and embezzlement in the past. Yet, in 2018 when Mucarsel-Powell was running for her seat, she did not see her husband’s work as relevant to her campaign.
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Interesting, I did a google search on "puppet master" and story after story from the MSM came back, all bashing Trump. So we can assume the term "puppet master" is yet another liberal talking point and narrative.
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Interesting, I did a google search on "puppet master" and story after story from the MSM came back, all bashing Trump. So we can assume the term "puppet master" is yet another liberal talking point and narrative.
And I just thought it was a Robert Heinlein novel...
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Do you not recognize that people can personal objectives and also patriotic objectives?
Certainly they can. But in this case, you would have to show that exposing dirt on Joe Biden is is clearly patriotic. Sure, his polices are bad and the man probably has early onset dementia. But smearing his character is neither patriotic nor even moral.
Out him if you want. But don't wrap yourself in the flag as you're doing it.
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It's been known within the establishment that Biden, Kerry and a few others have been milking the Ukraine for financial gain.
So the president was paying Giuliani out of his own pocket to do the work of the FBI?
Not credible. If the president wanted this exposed because it was crime and it needed to be exposed, he does not use his undercover personal lawyer. He uses an undercover lawyer because he doesn't want it to be exposed.
Whatever happened to lawyers not talking about their clients. I miss those days.
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Certainly they can. But in this case, you would have to show that exposing dirt on Joe Biden is is clearly patriotic. Sure, his polices are bad and the man probably has early onset dementia. But smearing his character is neither patriotic nor even moral.
Out him if you want. But don't wrap yourself in the flag as you're doing it.
<snort>
Investigating corruption is smearing someone's character?
<bah>
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Well now you're just speculating on intent. Possible yes, but again just speculation like many of the Democrats and their phony "witnesses".
I'm picking up what Giuliani is putting down.
"... And I’m going to give them reasons why they shouldn’t stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government." "It" refers to investigating the corruption in Burisma and money laundering that Hunter Biden and potentially Joe participated in.
Yes, he also said "and MAY turn out to be helpful to my government", but that isn't his reason. His reason is that what he is doing in getting an investigation will be helpful to Trump.
Nothing illegal here.
But it DOES put Trump's request for an investigation in a different light. How can you twist yourself to believe that Trump wanted Giuliani to ask Zelensky for an investigation to smear Biden (which I'm not upset about) and also believe that when Trump asked Zelensky to for an investigation too that he wanted to ensure there was no corruption. It doesn't add up.
Giuliani may have just crashed the 2020 election for Trump. I think I'm early on this, but I've already started to see others pick up on it.
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Investigating corruption is smearing someone's character?
Flag. Wrapping.
Don't.
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Certainly they can. But in this case, you would have to show that exposing dirt on Joe Biden is is clearly patriotic. Sure, his polices are bad and the man probably has early onset dementia. But smearing his character is neither patriotic nor even moral.
Out him if you want. But don't wrap yourself in the flag as you're doing it.
He was the Vice President of the United States and is suspected of using his power for personal or family gain.
Now he is attempting to run for President. I think it is essential and very patriotic to try to get to the truth asap. Now if Trump were asking for investigations into Sanders or Warren, that might be a little different. But I still wouldn't mind if it were based on the truth. Unlike the charges leveled against Trump when HE was a candidate.
When did we forget about geese (IE Goose and Gander)
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I'm picking up what Giuliani is putting down.
"... And I’m going to give them reasons why they shouldn’t stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government." "It" refers to investigating the corruption in Burisma and money laundering that Hunter Biden and potentially Joe participated in.
Yes, he also said "and MAY turn out to be helpful to my government", but that isn't his reason. His reason is that what he is doing in getting an investigation will be helpful to Trump.
Nothing illegal here.
But it DOES put Trump's request for an investigation in a different light. How can you twist yourself to believe that Trump wanted Giuliani to ask Zelensky for an investigation to smear Biden (which I'm not upset about) and also believe that when Trump asked Zelensky to for an investigation too that he wanted to ensure there was no corruption. It doesn't add up.
Giuliani may have just crashed the 2020 election for Trump. I think I'm early on this, but I've already started to see others pick up on it.
You are conflating several different points here. Giuliani was originally tasked as an envoy to investigate the corruption of Ukraine. As far as who was paying him, you or I don't know this, and honestly, it doesn't matter. Presidents through out history have used personal envoys, again, this is nothing new.
During Giuliani's investigation the moles in the WH got wind of it, and they didn't want their benefactors exposed. The Trump phone call to the President of the Ukraine was the vehicle chosen to out Giuliani and Trump, and try to stop the investigation. Now that we have the dims on their death march to impeachment, Giuliani is now gathering more evidence of the corruption (and there is plenty) that clearly shows where the actual crimes are being committed, and yes, this does benefit Trump since it clearly shows he was acting within his constitutional authority.
But the MSM narrative, which you obviously believe, is that Trump and Giuliani are the criminals, and what they are doing is somehow against the law (again, no one yet can cite those laws being broken) and that the Bidens, Kerry, Clinton and a host of others are innocent and being "victimized".
Roaches scatter when the lights come on. However this set of roaches are screaming Trump is the real problem, not them.
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And I just thought it was a Robert Heinlein novel...
That's exactly what I thought. They're ruining Heinlein, the libertarian.
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Giuliani may have just crashed the 2020 election for Trump. I think I'm early on this, but I've already started to see others pick up on it.
From CNN, MSNBC, and Bill Kristol I presume?
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I'm picking up what Giuliani is putting down.
"... And I’m going to give them reasons why they shouldn’t stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government." "It" refers to investigating the corruption in Burisma and money laundering that Hunter Biden and potentially Joe participated in.
Yes, he also said "and MAY turn out to be helpful to my government", but that isn't his reason. His reason is that what he is doing in getting an investigation will be helpful to Trump.
Nothing illegal here.
But it DOES put Trump's request for an investigation in a different light. How can you twist yourself to believe that Trump wanted Giuliani to ask Zelensky for an investigation to smear Biden (which I'm not upset about) and also believe that when Trump asked Zelensky to for an investigation too that he wanted to ensure there was no corruption. It doesn't add up.
Giuliani may have just crashed the 2020 election for Trump. I think I'm early on this, but I've already started to see others pick up on it.
That is so much wishful thinking.
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Nothing wishful about it. I’m just going where the information leads me.
What is wishful now is wishing that Giuliani had not done that interview.
Looking like Dems in Congress are missing this.
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He was the Vice President of the United States and is suspected of using his power for personal or family gain.
Now he is attempting to run for President. I think it is essential and very patriotic to try to get to the truth asap. Now if Trump were asking for investigations into Sanders or Warren, that might be a little different. But I still wouldn't mind if it were based on the truth. Unlike the charges leveled against Trump when HE was a candidate.
When did we forget about geese (IE Goose and Gander)
Absolutely, Biden should be punished if guilty, and he appear to be.
Also, Trump should be punished if guilty and since Giuliani opened his mouth, he appear to be.
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https://www.wnd.com/2019/12/john-solomon-democrats-really-trying-hide-ukraine/
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I and others have said from the beginning that this is a Joe and Hunter Biden scandal, not a Trump scandal. Why else would the Ukraine Gas Company pay Hunter, a NOBODY, big bucks? No reason except for selling influence from his Dad, then VP, Joe Biden.
The Dems want Pedo Joe out, and Trump smeared. That is all that this is about.
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I and others have said from the beginning that this is a Joe and Hunter Biden scandal, not a Trump scandal. Why else would the Ukraine Gas Company pay Hunter, a NOBODY, big bucks? No reason except for selling influence from his Dad, then VP, Joe Biden.
The Dems want Pedo Joe out, and Trump smeared. That is all that this is about.
Hey, Hunter was qualified! I mean, c'mon! Kicked out of the Navy for drug abuse, wandering homeless camps in LA buying crack, dating his dead brothers wife, getting bar girls pregnant, previous jobs were in name only...........
Why wouldn't a large company want his talent at several times the going rate for the job????
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Just out of curiosity, why isn't OUR justice department investigating the Bidens?
Oh yeah.
D! (not R)
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Nothing wishful about it. I’m just going where the information leads me.
What is wishful now is wishing that Giuliani had not done that interview.
Looking like Dems in Congress are missing this.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha....
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I and others have said from the beginning that this is a Joe and Hunter Biden scandal, not a Trump scandal. Why else would the Ukraine Gas Company pay Hunter, a NOBODY, big bucks? No reason except for selling influence from his Dad, then VP, Joe Biden.
The Dems want Pedo Joe out, and Trump smeared. That is all that this is about.
I agree, Biden should be in deep doo doo over this.
Trump also made a pretty major mistake. Because he sent Giuliani over to Ukraine to do it, we know that his target was to get investigations going on Biden. The canard that asking Zelensky to investigate was a test for corruption just doesn't fly anymore. Trump's previous excuse was a lie and now we know why, because even he knows it was out of bounds.
Bottom line, he asked Zelensky to investigate the leading Democrat candidate and his son. I don't believe anyone can rationally explain that away anymore. It's unfortunate but real.
But like I said, it looks like Democrats are not picking this up because they are trundling forward with impeachment when they should be going back to committee and getting more witnesses. Trump may get away with this one, but because Democrats are screwing up, not because he is innocent.
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Trump also made a pretty major mistake. Because he sent Giuliani over to Ukraine to do it, we know that his target was to get investigations going on Biden. The canard that asking Zelensky to investigate was a test for corruption just doesn't fly anymore. Trump's previous excuse was a lie and now we know why, because even he knows it was out of bounds.
Care to share your evidence on this?
Had you read (or watched) the testimony on this, that was disproven, several times.
Bottom line, he asked Zelensky to investigate the leading Democrat candidate and his son. I don't believe anyone can rationally explain that away anymore. It's unfortunate but real.
Again, not true. The phone call transcript disproves this, as does the testimony given during the hearings.
But like I said, it looks like Democrats are not picking this up because they are trundling forward with impeachment when they should be going back to committee and getting more witnesses. Trump may get away with this one, but because Democrats are screwing up, not because he is innocent.
The democrats and the media are moving away from this, as previously stated, even their own witnesses dispute it.
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I agree, Biden should be in deep doo doo over this.
<snip>
Bottom line, he asked Zelensky to investigate the leading Democrat candidate and his son. I don't believe anyone can rationally explain that away anymore. It's unfortunate but real.
And I still maintain that is exactly why Biden SHOULD be investigated. He is a leading candidate for President of the US. How can anyone claim he shouldn't be investigated for corruption (I know you didn't claim that) if he is trying to take the highest office on the planet? He needs to be above reproach. And the best time to do that is before he is elected.
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I agree, Biden should be in deep doo doo over this.
Trump also made a pretty major mistake. Because he sent Giuliani over to Ukraine to do it, we know that his target was to get investigations going on Biden. The canard that asking Zelensky to investigate was a test for corruption just doesn't fly anymore. Trump's previous excuse was a lie and now we know why, because even he knows it was out of bounds.
Bottom line, he asked Zelensky to investigate the leading Democrat candidate and his son. I don't believe anyone can rationally explain that away anymore. It's unfortunate but real.
But like I said, it looks like Democrats are not picking this up because they are trundling forward with impeachment when they should be going back to committee and getting more witnesses. Trump may get away with this one, but because Democrats are screwing up, not because he is innocent.
Are you bflynn or Kristen?
It’s getting hard to tell the difference.
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Here's the first phone call transcript: https://www.lawfareblog.com/transcript-first-conversation-between-trump-and-zelensky-april
Here's the second phone call transcript: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf
The· President: I would like you to do us a favor though
because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a
lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with
this whole siuation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess
you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say
Ukraine has.it There - are a lot. of things that went on, the·
:whole situation ..I think you are surrounding yourself with some
of the same people. I .would like to have the Attorney General
call you or your people and I would like you to ·get to the
bottom of it. As you say yesterday, that whole nonsetise ended
with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an
incompetent performance -, but they say a lot of it started with
Ukraine. Whatever you can do, ·it's very important that you. do it
if that's possible.
So, the President didn't ask on his behalf, he used the word "us" meaning our government. He also mentioned what "our" country has been through. Again, nothing to do with the President personally, or his campaign
The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor
who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair.
A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your
very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people
involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the
mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very
capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The
former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad
news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad
news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing,
There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the
prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so
whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.
Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if
you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
So there are the exact words. Even Lt Col Vindman didn't dispute this, and he was in on the phone call.
What President Trump told Zelensky was factual.
There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the
prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so
whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.
Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if
you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
There was a lot of talk about Biden's son and the payments, and we have a tape where Joe Biden brags about demanding a prosecutor be fired or no money...."Quid Pro Quo" on it's face.
So, again, can anyone cite a crime committed by the President in this phone call?
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Bottom line, he asked Zelensky to investigate the leading Democrat candidate and his son. I don't believe anyone can rationally explain that away anymore. It's unfortunate but real.
Bottomline: you haven't understood the transcript of the actual call.
excerpts below:
"I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has.it There-are a lot. of things that went on, the·
:whole situation..I think you1 re _surrounding yourse·lf with some of the same people. I .would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it."
" The other thing, There's a lot's. talk about Biden's son, that Eiden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if
you ·can look into it... It sounds horrible to me."
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So, the President didn't ask on his behalf, he used the word "us" meaning our government. He also mentioned what "our" country has been through. Again, nothing to do with the President personally, or his campaign
I seem to recall that one of the academics in one of the hearings was able to climb into the President's head and stated that Trump was using the "royal 'we'" when he said 'us.' Therefore it was personal. Or so the egghead academic who can read Trump's mind says.
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The only problem with this entire charade is that the communists (democrats) both elected and their apologists like some here, can’t stomach the idea of having laws apply to them.
Laws are only supposed to apply to republicans and other little people...
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Bottom line, he asked Zelensky to investigate the previous administration's Vice President and his son?
FTFY
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So, again, can anyone cite a crime committed by the President in this phone call?
Well, none of the "witnesses" could.
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The crime President Trump committed was proving that the swamp is incompetent, dishonest, egotistical and willing commit treason to get their way and protect the graft and bribes.
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Bottomline: you haven't understood the transcript of the actual call.
I understand it perfectly well. The president very carefully phrased his official requests in proper language. When that was all there was, I defended him.
But now, knowing that Giuliani was hired by the president to unofficially go do the same thing with the express stated purpose to help the president, that changes. Giuliani's was working to get the investigation in order to help Trump. Intent of asking for the investigation has already been revealed by Giuliani, it cannot be changed just because different words were used on the diplomatic phone call.
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The crime? 5 CFR § 2635.702 - Use of public office for private gain.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/11.448
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I understand it perfectly well. The president very carefully phrased his official requests in proper language. When that was all there was, I defended him.
But now, knowing that Giuliani was hired by the president to unofficially go do the same thing with the express stated purpose to help the president, that changes. Giuliani's was working to get the investigation in order to help Trump. Intent of asking for the investigation has already been revealed by Giuliani, it cannot be changed just because different words were used on the diplomatic phone call.
So, again you're a mind reader and could tell what Guiliani's and Trump's INTENT was with regards to investigating Biden when the transcripts, nor any other documentation indicates that. You are doing exactly what the Media and Democrats are attempting to do.
Just to make this aviation related. You know why they called the Martin B-26, the "Baltimore Whore", right? No visible means of support.
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I understand it perfectly well. The president very carefully phrased his official requests in proper language. When that was all there was, I defended him.
But now, knowing that Giuliani was hired by the president to unofficially go do the same thing with the express stated purpose to help the president, that changes. Giuliani's was working to get the investigation in order to help Trump. Intent of asking for the investigation has already been revealed by Giuliani, it cannot be changed just because different words were used on the diplomatic phone call.
As far as I'm concerned, even if it is as you say, it doesn't amount to "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors" except in the minds of Democrats that had already made up their minds to impeach him, even before he was inaugurated.
But I still think if someone that is running for President and is suspected of past corruption while he was still in office, he is fair game.
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The crime? 5 CFR § 2635.702 - Use of public office for private gain.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/11.448
Yet the House in its 658 page Impeachment Report never cited that Code, or any CFR for that matter. Why do you think that is?
It’s because even the House knows that that dog don’t hunt.
Try again.
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The crime? 5 CFR § 2635.702 - Use of public office for private gain.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/11.448
I wonder why the Clintons and Bidens have never been charged with that...
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The crime? 5 CFR § 2635.702 - Use of public office for private gain.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/11.448
OK, so how come that wasn't cited in the Impeachment Inquiry or the articles of Impeachment?
Could it be it doesn't meet the elements of the law?
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OK, so how come that wasn't cited in the Impeachment Inquiry or the articles of Impeachment?
Could it be it doesn't meet the elements of the law?
Agreed. Does not fit the elements of the law.
(1) this was not illegal, so it fails right away.
(2) no personal or property rights were involved. Even if funds to Ukraine were withheld those are not personal or property rights. Biden's personal or property rights were not involved. It's an investigation into his and his son's corruption.
(3) No rights, powers, etc. were denied.
If the Democrats are relying on this section (and from the articles of impeachment, they are not), it fails right away.
§ 11.448 Abuse of office.
A person acting or purporting to act in an official capacity or taking advantage of such actual or purported capacity commits a misdemeanor if, knowing that his or her conduct is illegal, he or she:
(a) Subjects another to arrest, detention, search, seizure, mistreatment, dispossession, assessment, lien or other infringement of personal or property rights; or
(b) Denies or impedes another in the exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power or immunity.
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OK, so how come that wasn't cited in the Impeachment Inquiry or the articles of Impeachment?
Could it be it doesn't meet the elements of the law?
I said this earlier. Brian seems to be engaged in wishful thinking and his position fails when held up against the light of law.
That's not much different than azure, kristen and steingar, who were desperate to project their wishful thinking onto President Trump and then have him convicted of their fantasies.
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I said this earlier. Brian seems to be engaged in wishful thinking and his position fails when held up against the light of law.
That's not much different than azure, kristen and steingar, who were desperate to project their wishful thinking onto President Trump and then have him convicted of their fantasies.
I don't know who Brian is, but the others are conspicuously absent when it looks like Trump will be vindicated. All repeat what the Media wants them to know, which is biased, often contrived (invented) to advance the anti Trump narrative. Nothing more.
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I don't know who Brian is, but the others are conspicuously absent when it looks like Trump will be vindicated. All repeat what the Media wants them to know, which is biased, often contrived (invented) to advance the anti Trump narrative. Nothing more.
Azure is over at The Pilots Place, she has much more friendly crowd there.
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Azure is over at The Pilots Place, she has much more friendly crowd there.
Again, they can only hang when they have AFFIRMATIVE ACTION LEFTIST MODERATION.
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Azure is over at The Pilots Place, she has much more friendly crowd there.
Does that translate to "Liberals can't be challenged"?