PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2020, 04:49:06 PM

Title: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2020, 04:49:06 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/world/missile-attacks-target-us-forces-in-iraq-senior-military-source-says-iran-suspected
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2020, 05:16:30 PM
People in Iran apparently demanding revenge. Leaders pledging to strike places America “likes.”

This could get very bad very quickly.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2020, 05:25:47 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-usa-fort-bragg/were-going-to-war-bro-fort-braggs-82nd-airborne-deploys-to-the-middle-east-idUSKBN1Z616W
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Ron22 on January 07, 2020, 05:26:29 PM
It would help if it looked like the USA government were all on same page. I do not think it helps when 1/2 the government is questioning what Trump did.


Sent from my iPad . Squirrel!!
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2020, 05:39:13 PM
Yes, it’s a time to be united against a very real threat.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/01/07/esper-us-wont-start-war-iran-would-finish-one.html
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 07, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
It would help if it looked like the USA government were all on same page. I do not think it helps when 1/2 the government is questioning what Trump did.


Sent from my iPad . Squirrel!!

Thanks the Democrats and the MEDIA. 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 07, 2020, 05:50:47 PM
It would help if it looked like the USA government were all on same page. I do not think it helps when 1/2 the government is questioning what Trump did.

Dissent, right or wrong, is in my humble opinion a clear sign of a free country.

Looks like the Iranians struck sooner than I expected. Hopefully Trump responds quickly and proportionately to this and each subsequent attack.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 07, 2020, 06:14:12 PM
Dissent, right or wrong, is in my humble opinion a clear sign of a free country.

Not when they LIE about it.  Opinion is fine.  Deception isn't.

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2020, 06:22:04 PM
Not when they LIE about it.  Opinion is fine.  Deception isn't.
From what I gather, the President acted on intelligence outlining attacks Soleimani was planning to carry out. What the lying, power hungry Dems propose with this War Powers resolution would constipate response time to nearly useless.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 07, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
Dissent is also not legitimate when you would applaud the exact same action if Obama took it.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 07, 2020, 06:51:59 PM
Dissent is also not legitimate when you would applaud the exact same action if Obama took it.

What do you propose be done with people expressing non-legitimate dissent?
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 07, 2020, 07:19:28 PM
What do you propose be done with people expressing non-legitimate dissent?

Ignore them, and support what it legitimate.  Although the Democrats and the Media have become a purposeful Disinformation campaign run by Globalists. 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Little Joe on January 07, 2020, 07:39:36 PM
Looks like the Iranians struck sooner than I expected. Hopefully Trump responds quickly and proportionately to this and each subsequent attack.
I hope the response is disproportionate, and each subsequent attack by Iran is dealt with in increasing dis-proportionality.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 07, 2020, 07:46:25 PM
I hope the response is disproportionate, and each subsequent attack by Iran is dealt with in increasing dis-proportionality.

That’ll work too.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2020, 07:47:30 PM
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
23s
All is well! Missiles launched from Iran at two military bases located in Iraq. Assessment of casualties & damages taking place now. So far, so good! We have the most powerful and well equipped military anywhere in the world, by far! I will be making a statement tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Number7 on January 07, 2020, 08:06:25 PM
Dissent, right or wrong, is in my humble opinion a clear sign of a free country.

Looks like the Iranians struck sooner than I expected. Hopefully Trump responds quickly and proportionately to this and each subsequent attack.

That would be fine IF the dissent wasn’t a pack of lies provided by a group of inveterate liars... in other words democrats.

Like this bitch...

https://pjmedia.com/trending/treason-ilhan-omar-gives-iran-military-advice-suggests-it-target-trump-hotels/
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: jb1842 on January 07, 2020, 08:33:33 PM
Yeah...
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2020, 06:03:47 AM
What do you propose be done with people expressing non-legitimate dissent?

Nothing. Until their words rise to the level of giving aid and comfort to an enemy.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Ron22 on January 08, 2020, 06:05:16 AM
Since it looks like no one was killed does Trump let it Deescalate (do nothing) or will he hit back?
No win for him really.
If he does nothing, he is week and let Iran win.
If he does attack back, he is evil and wants to start WW3 to take the news off of his Impeachment.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2020, 06:11:44 AM
Since it looks like no one was killed does Trump let it Deescalate (do nothing) or will he hit back?
No win for him really.
If he does nothing, he is week and let Iran win.
If he does attack back, he is evil and wants to start WW3 to take the news off of his Impeachment.

If there was no one killed, and they stop, I would no nothing overt and see if Iran ceases.  If ships start getting attacked in the Straits, or anywhere, or other crap happens, and Iran is behind it, then hit them again, hard. 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2020, 06:22:56 AM
Since it looks like no one was killed does Trump let it Deescalate (do nothing) or will he hit back?
No win for him really.
If he does nothing, he is week and let Iran win.
If he does attack back, he is evil and wants to start WW3 to take the news off of his Impeachment.

The logic does not follow that if he attacks back 1) he is evil 2) he wants to start WW3 and 3) he would start a global war just to take news off his impeachment which alone makes zero sense because his impeachment seems to be increasing his popularity.

Edit: Wait.... you were saying that’s what people would think. Sorry. I should not be allowed to post before I’ve had my full mug of coffee.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: jb1842 on January 08, 2020, 07:33:42 AM
I think this will deescalate. Is it a coincidence that an airline crashed after the missile attacks? Was it an "accident"? Was it the first of another round of missile attacks and someone screwed up? Will they blame the US for doing it and placing the blame on Iran? I think the world is going to be more than a little suspicious towards Iran on this incident.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Mr Pou on January 08, 2020, 07:45:03 AM
I think this will deescalate. Is it a coincidence that an airline crashed after the missile attacks? Was it an "accident"? Was it the first of another round of missile attacks and someone screwed up? Will they blame the US for doing it and placing the blame on Iran? I think the world is going to be more than a little suspicious towards Iran on this incident.

Almost a certainty that a missile brought down that airliner, and it makes Iran look very bad. Yes, they saved some face by launching a mostly harmless response to our action, but whatever cred that may have bought them is fully erased by the downing of the airliner. They just look bad.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2020, 07:48:36 AM
I think this will deescalate. Is it a coincidence that an airline crashed after the missile attacks? Was it an "accident"? Was it the first of another round of missile attacks and someone screwed up? Will they blame the US for doing it and placing the blame on Iran? I think the world is going to be more than a little suspicious towards Iran on this incident.

The 737 crash is very suspect, and the vast majority of people know the U.S. would never do something like this.  Was it a mistake by the Iranian missile defense?  I think that is more plausible, but who knows.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: jb1842 on January 08, 2020, 07:58:23 AM
Iran is now saying it will not release the black boxes to others for examination. Guess they are going to control the narrative that it was an accident and not a huge fuck-up.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: jb1842 on January 08, 2020, 07:59:44 AM
The 737 crash is very suspect, and the vast majority of people know the U.S. would never do something like this.  Was it a mistake by the Iranian missile defense?  I think that is more plausible, but who knows.

We've shot down Iranian airliners before, accidentally. But don't discount the stupidity of others not to blame the US or Trump. We have terrorists, I mean elected officials, in our own country that would love to see the US destroyed.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2020, 08:15:59 AM
The 737 crash is very suspect, and the vast majority of people know the U.S. would never do something like this.  Was it a mistake by the Iranian missile defense?  I think that is more plausible, but who knows.

Maybe one of the passengers threw coins into the engine before takeoff, for good luck.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Number7 on January 08, 2020, 08:21:42 AM
Maybe one of the passengers threw coins into the engine before takeoff, for good luck.

Maybe those peace loving, harmless iranian leaders threw a homosexual into the engine to see how many pieces would fly out the back...
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2020, 08:48:59 AM
We've shot down Iranian airliners before, accidentally. But don't discount the stupidity of others not to blame the US or Trump. We have terrorists, I mean elected officials, in our own country that would love to see the US destroyed.

We have?  Is there conclusive proof?  Not trying to be snarky, I honestly don't remember that. 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2020, 08:50:44 AM
The Iranians, in coordination with the Leftist Progressives are attempting to bait President Trump into a war.   Both the Progressives and Iranians desperately want Trump out of the WH.

 If they can get Trump into a war, this will energize the anti war left in this country in which they will try to destroy him and prevent his re-election.   The Iranians have been hurt by the sanctions, and they want to go back to the previous administrations way of conducting business.

 This is all highly partisan politics in play here.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2020, 08:51:28 AM
We have?  Is there conclusive proof?  Not trying to be snarky, I honestly don't remember that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Ron22 on January 08, 2020, 08:52:20 AM
The 737 crash is very suspect, and the vast majority of people know the U.S. would never do something like this.  Was it a mistake by the Iranian missile defense?  I think that is more plausible, but who knows.

I am not a military guy, but don't we have all kinds of radar and satellites watching Iran? I would think we could tell if they fired a missile.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 08:58:09 AM
The Iranians, in coordination with the Leftist Progressives are attempting to bait President Trump into a war.   Both the Progressives and Iranians desperately want Trump out of the WH.

 If they can get Trump into a war, this will energize the anti war left in this country in which they will try to destroy him and prevent his re-election.   The Iranians have been hurt by the sanctions, and they want to go back to the previous administrations way of conducting business.

 This is all highly partisan politics in play here.
That has been increasingly the conclusion I’ve been coming to. The pattern is emerging and more clear daily ... we’re amazed at how anti-American the left is sounding and how out of proportion their angst and cries of foul are ... unless there’s a purpose beneath it all that makes it make sense. And that is the return to power and, for Iran, a return to appeasement from America. Trump stands in the way of it. Their only hope is to turn public opinion (votes) away from Trump.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2020, 08:59:01 AM
I am not a military guy, but don't we have all kinds of radar and satellites watching Iran? I would think we could tell if they fired a missile.

You would think they'd pick it up, however, due to the sensitive nature of what is going on, we may not be told what really happened.  It may have just been mechanical failure and a coincidence, but that seems doubtful. 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 08:59:33 AM
I am not a military guy, but don't we have all kinds of radar and satellites watching Iran? I would think we could tell if they fired a missile.
I read that surveillance of the terrorist generals is so fine they identify them by the color of their beards. So most likely, yes.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: jb1842 on January 08, 2020, 09:05:03 AM
I'm no crash investigator, but if you look closely at some of the crash photos, you see a section of fuselage that has holes in it where the impact from something is punching the edges of the holes inwards.

I have no idea how credible this website is, but here are some pics.

https://ops.group/blog/risk-assessing-iran-ops-the-uia-737-may-have-been-shot-down/
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2020, 09:14:56 AM
That has been increasingly the conclusion I’ve been coming to. The pattern is emerging and more clear daily ... we’re amazed at how anti-American the left is sounding and how out of proportion their angst and cries of foul are ... unless there’s a purpose beneath it all that makes it make sense. And that is the return to power and, for Iran, a return to appeasement from America. Trump stands in the way of it. Their only hope is to turn public opinion (votes) away from Trump.

 Make no mistake, the progressive agenda is anything but American.   They are desperate to get rid of Trump, punish those who voted and support him and regain their "fundamental transformation" of the US.

 The Russia hoax failed.  The Ukraine hoax has failed.  The Pelosi-Schiff impeachment debacle has failed.  The dims have no run running that can defeat Trump.   Now they will try to gin up a war to energize the anti-war left in hopes of pulling down his popularity.

 It's all desperation.   And they will get even more desperate.  This is only the beginning of the election year, just wait.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2020, 09:16:27 AM
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AUI752/history/20200108/0145Z/OIIE/UKBB

Not that this tells us anything.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2020, 09:24:20 AM
I'm no crash investigator, but if you look closely at some of the crash photos, you see a section of fuselage that has holes in it where the impact from something is punching the edges of the holes inwards.

I have no idea how credible this website is, but here are some pics.

https://ops.group/blog/risk-assessing-iran-ops-the-uia-737-may-have-been-shot-down/

But also mechanical failure of the engine can send fan blades into the fuselage "like shrapnel". 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 10:07:20 AM
The Triceratops in the room is why the heck would any airline fly in the vicinity of a missle attack? They had to have known it was happening. Around here when I fly with my husband we get notified if some amateur rocket club is having a meet 100 miles away.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 10:08:33 AM
Great speech by POTUS, by the way.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 08, 2020, 10:16:26 AM
The Triceratops in the room is why the heck would any airline fly in the vicinity of a missle attack? They had to have known it was happening. Around here when I fly with my husband we get notified if some amateur rocket club is having a meet 100 miles away.

There probably are not that many routing options in the area.  The whole place is one big mess of morons with missiles.

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2020, 10:17:36 AM
Great speech by POTUS, by the way.

Crap I missed it. Too busy ordering henna.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: jb1842 on January 08, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
But also mechanical failure of the engine can send fan blades into the fuselage "like shrapnel".

Even to the top of the wing?
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2020, 10:30:52 AM
Even to the top of the wing?

Good point, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: jb1842 on January 08, 2020, 10:33:16 AM
The real question is what will the U.S. and the rest of the world do when Isreal finally says " fuck this" and launch a full on attack on Iran? They are going to do something sooner than later, IMHO.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 10:42:07 AM
There probably are not that many routing options in the area.  The whole place is one big mess of morons with missiles.

Which is why anything short of complete elimination of the top dudes and all their lower sycophants will never produce peace. Even then, doubtful.

These dudes will just keep hitting soft targets for decades. And since they value life so little, they might just decide they’re willing to die as martyrs just to get a whack at the Great Satan.

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 10:43:05 AM
The real question is what will the U.S. and the rest of the world do when Isreal finally says " fuck this" and launch a full on attack on Iran? They are going to do something sooner than later, IMHO.
Yes. The temptation to get rid of the plague once and for all is great.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 10:44:48 AM
I saved this article years ago and ran across it yesterday.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/11/je_suis_infidel.html
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: nddons on January 08, 2020, 12:34:00 PM
What do you propose be done with people expressing non-legitimate dissent?
Red herring.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: nddons on January 08, 2020, 12:58:45 PM
The 737 crash is very suspect, and the vast majority of people know the U.S. would never do something like this.  Was it a mistake by the Iranian missile defense?  I think that is more plausible, but who knows.
Recall that the US accidentally shot down an Iranian airliner.

This could be a setup to blame the US for another “mistake.”  And the fact that it was a Ukrainian airliner, of all countries, that went down. 

I have no doubt Christiane Amanpour, Chris Cuomo, and Don Lemon are hot on the trail as to what Trump would gain by downing an airliner full of Iranians and Ukrainians.

Watch for “sources say that the passengers included a supreme deputy commander of something or other,” with the resulting “assassination” narrative coming forthwith.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2020, 01:09:15 PM
Recall that the US accidentally shot down an Iranian airliner.

This could be a setup to blame the US for another “mistake.”  And the fact that it was a Ukrainian airliner, of all countries, that went down. 

I have no doubt Christiane Amanpour, Chris Cuomo, and Don Lemon are hot on the trail as to what Trump would gain by downing an airliner full of Iranians and Ukrainians.

Watch for “sources say that the passengers included a supreme deputy commander of something or other,” with the resulting “assassination” narrative coming forthwith.

Was it the USS Vincennes that shot down that airliner?  I guess so because you are the second person to mentioned that.  I guess I have convenient amnesia on that one.  I doubt it would happen twice.  Plus there were 63 Canadians, and 3 Brits on the plane as well as Ukrainians. 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: nddons on January 08, 2020, 01:54:15 PM
Was it conclusive that the U.S. shot down that airliner?  I guess so because you are the second person to mentioned that.  I guess I have convenient amnesia on that one.  I doubt it would happen twice.  Plus there were 63 Canadians, and 3 Brits on the plane as well as Ukrainians.
Canadians?  Seriously?  What in the hell is wrong with the Cannucks?  One of them wasn’t Trudeau by chance, was it?
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2020, 02:14:42 PM
Canadians?  Seriously?  What in the hell is wrong with the Cannucks?  One of them wasn’t Trudeau by chance, was it?

Yeah, unfortunately.  Very strange that so many Canadians were going there, and through Ukraine,  No Hollywood types that said they were going to move to Canada if Trump won were on the plane, as none of them left the U.S.  They lied.   ::)

Trudeau was too busy taking recurrent sensitivity and diversity training to be on the flight. 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/63-canadians-dead-iran-plane-crash-68141823
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2020, 02:41:03 PM
And this thread got shut down......because.....???

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/boeing-737-crash-in-iran.123643/
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 08, 2020, 03:02:02 PM
"Given this, the MC has decided to lock the thread for the time being, with the intention to unlock it in the future discussion when the aviation can be separated from the politics. "


oh yeah, that'll happen.

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: nddons on January 08, 2020, 03:19:23 PM
"Given this, the MC has decided to lock the thread for the time being, with the intention to unlock it in the future discussion when the aviation can be separated from the politics. "


oh yeah, that'll happen.
Dear God. Doesn’t that guy have better things to do like fly dogs all over the country in his turbine twin, or whatever the hell he used to talk about?

I get fatigued just reading shit like that, let alone trying to decide what might happen if, God forbid, people talked about world events.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 08, 2020, 03:24:17 PM
Canadians?  Seriously?  What in the hell is wrong with the Cannucks?  One of them wasn’t Trudeau by chance, was it?

Sounds like many (if not all) of those Canadians were Iranian expats. Flying to Iran from Canada requires going via a third-party country like Ukraine.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 03:26:09 PM
"Given this, the MC has decided to lock the thread for the time being, with the intention to unlock it in the future discussion when the aviation can be separated from the politics. "


oh yeah, that'll happen.
Hahahahaha! And how will they determine when that magic synchronicity of thought occurs?
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2020, 03:43:51 PM
Dear God. Doesn’t that guy have better things to do like fly dogs all over the country in his turbine twin, or whatever the hell he used to talk about?

I get fatigued just reading shit like that, let alone trying to decide what might happen if, God forbid, people talked about world events.

LOL.  Laughing my ass off!   
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 04:51:46 PM
i just read that the whole strikeback thing might have been a publicity stunt negotiated with Iran so they could save face. Seeing a fraction of our ability to target and destroy them apparently was rather galvanizing.

 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 08, 2020, 04:55:34 PM
LOL.  Laughing my ass off!
That DuPuis person will unlock the thread and post, “Okay, in your timeout, did you learn how to separate aviation from politics?” If he’s not a liberal I’ll eat my snow boots.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Number7 on January 08, 2020, 05:31:08 PM
And this thread got shut down......because.....???

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/boeing-737-crash-in-iran.123643/

Because the fucking snowflake is a pathetic asshole.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2020, 07:14:49 PM
"Given this, the MC has decided to lock the thread for the time being, with the intention to unlock it in the future discussion when the aviation can be separated from the politics. "


oh yeah, that'll happen.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/re-open-thread-on-iran-737-crash.123667/
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Mr Pou on January 09, 2020, 05:32:01 AM
And this thread got shut down......because.....???

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/boeing-737-crash-in-iran.123643/

They've shut down every thread that has been started to discuss the downed 737. Amazing!
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 09, 2020, 05:49:13 AM
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/re-open-thread-on-iran-737-crash.123667/

"The requested thread could not be found."

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Ron22 on January 09, 2020, 06:24:12 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/08/politics/war-powers-act-explainer-iran/index.html
Quote
Amid simmering tensions between the US and Iran, House and Senate Democrats are pushing to rein in President Donald Trump's military action and halt an escalation of hostilities in a effort that will test the power of Congress to constrain the executive branch when it comes to the use of military force.
Lets tell Iran dont worry do what ever you want we will stop Trump.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Little Joe on January 09, 2020, 06:48:48 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/08/politics/war-powers-act-explainer-iran/index.htmlLets tell Iran dont worry do what ever you want we will stop Trump.
If I read you right, that was my thinking too.

The libs are asking why he did this now in the middle of impeachment and they are talking about "wag the dog".
I tell my lib friends that their farcical impeachment is impeding his efforts to protect the country. If he delayed this action because of the impeachment, more American lives would likely have been lost.

This could still go either way in the future, but I firmly believe standing up to them will work much better than appeasement.  I just hope we don't screw around with that tit-for-tat shit and "respond proportionately" shit.  If they do anything else, I hope we smack the shit out of them so hard they have no more military r financial ability to continue on this path.  I don't care how many innocent civilians we waste over there.  It is their own damn fault.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 09, 2020, 06:51:00 AM
"The requested thread could not be found."

I’m back off that board again. Real life is only normally miserable now as opposed to exceptionally miserable so no more need to escape there anymore.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2020, 07:00:03 AM
The impeachment hoax at work.

The real reason for impeachment was not to remove Trump from office.  The dims knew that would not happen.  The actual reason for impeachment was to cripple Trump and smear him before the election.

 And how was this to work?  Anything Trump does the dims disagree with (which is everything) they simply get their MSM to project he's only doing this to deflect from impeachment, or if say the SC has a vacancy, then they can cry "He's being impeached, and shouldn't be allowed to make nominations!".

 This is why Nancy wants to hold the articles from the senate.  As long as he has the articles they can use the impeachment hoax.  If she sends them to the senate, she knows they will acquit and the dims lose the hoax.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Rush on January 09, 2020, 07:06:21 AM
The impeachment hoax at work.

The real reason for impeachment was not to remove Trump from office.  The dims knew that would not happen.  The actual reason for impeachment was to cripple Trump and smear him before the election.

 And how was this to work?  Anything Trump does the dims disagree with (which is everything) they simply get their MSM to project he's only doing this to deflect from impeachment, or if say the SC has a vacancy, then they can cry "He's being impeached, and shouldn't be allowed to make nominations!".

 This is why Nancy wants to hold the articles from the senate.  As long as he has the articles they can use the impeachment hoax.  If she sends them to the senate, she knows they will acquit and the dims lose the hoax.

This all exactly correct.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2020, 07:08:39 AM
This all exactly correct.

 And this is where Iran comes into the picture.  The Iranians and the progressives are working hand in hand here for a common cause.  And Trump isn't taking the bait.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 09, 2020, 07:19:38 AM
And this is where Iran comes into the picture.  The Iranians and the progressives are working hand in hand here for a common cause.  And Trump isn't taking the bait.

Yes, the Impeachment was just to smear Trump, render him ineffective and sway his re-election to the Democrats.  I always thought Obama, through Valerie Jarrett was working with the Iranians, and it seems the Democrats are continuing.  Didn't Kerry come out doing something with them not too long ago?  I'll have to try to look that up.  The Democrats are traitorous snakes in the grass. 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 09, 2020, 09:29:27 AM
Yes, the Impeachment was just to smear Trump, render him ineffective and sway his re-election to the Democrats.  I always thought Obama, through Valerie Jarrett was working with the Iranians, and it seems the Democrats are continuing.  Didn't Kerry come out doing something with them not too long ago?  I'll have to try to look that up.  The Democrats are traitorous snakes in the grass.

You may be thinking of Kerry in Iran in 2018:
 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-pompeo-idUSKCN1LU2NY (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-pompeo-idUSKCN1LU2NY)
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Number7 on January 09, 2020, 09:43:51 AM
IIRC, john kerry married his daughter off to extremely wealthy and highly connected iranians just a few years ago.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 09, 2020, 09:46:03 AM
You may be thinking of Kerry in Iran in 2018:
 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-pompeo-idUSKCN1LU2NY (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-pompeo-idUSKCN1LU2NY)

Egad.

“This is a former secretary of state engaged with the world’s largest state sponsor of terror ...,” Pompeo said, adding: “He was telling them to wait out this administration. You can’t find precedent for this in U.S. history.”
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 09, 2020, 09:49:06 AM
You may be thinking of Kerry in Iran in 2018:
 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-pompeo-idUSKCN1LU2NY (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran-pompeo-idUSKCN1LU2NY)

Yes, that's it.  Thanks.  If a former Republican appointed Sec of State or other official did this the outrage would still be going on.  What a traitorous bastard.  Iran is backed by RUSSIA, so why wasn't this reported as Russian collusion?
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Username on January 09, 2020, 10:01:05 AM
I don't understand why they held the impeachment vote when they did.  It would have been in their best interest to keep bringing in "witnesses" and selectively leak damaging "testimony" month after month with MSM wall-to-wall coverage of outrage.  That would be far more powerful than having a one-sided vote and waving a paper saying "see, he's impeached."  Now they just look like fools.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 09, 2020, 10:04:43 AM
... Now they just look like fools.

Now? 

They have been fools for quite some time.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 09, 2020, 10:06:55 AM
I don't understand why they held the impeachment vote when they did.  It would have been in their best interest to keep bringing in "witnesses" and selectively leak damaging "testimony" month after month with MSM wall-to-wall coverage of outrage.  That would be far more powerful than having a one-sided vote and waving a paper saying "see, he's impeached."  Now they just look like fools.

 It was a cluster fuck engineered by Schiff.

 The problem was, they don't have a case, and they were running the danger of more witnesses giving testimony that would exonerate Trump.   Think about it, not one "witness" who had direct knowledge of the phone call gave any testimony which implicated the President.  The only "witnesses" who had damaging testimony had no direct contact, no one.  And the damaging testimony was "We don't like his foreign policy".

 Schiff had to shove this through quickly or risk it exploding on them.  Now Pelosi is holding the bomb with the fuse burning.  She was a fucking moron for ever going along with this, and she will take the fall for Schiff/Nadler.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 09, 2020, 10:31:03 AM
Yes, that's it.  Thanks.  If a former Republican appointed Sec of State or other official did this the outrage would still be going on.  What a traitorous bastard.  Iran is backed by RUSSIA, so why wasn't this reported as Russian collusion?

I remember the incident because there were calls at the time for John Kerry to be tried for violating the Logan Act:
 https://www.westernjournal.com/dershowitz-kerry-violated-logan-act/ (https://www.westernjournal.com/dershowitz-kerry-violated-logan-act/)

As that story notes, Michael Flynn resigned and was prosecuted for allegedly lying about similar contacts, though in his case his contacts would have been (and probably already were) legal if he had waited a few weeks. The special-pleading by many liberals in these cases was and is pretty egregious.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2020, 06:05:07 AM
(https://i1.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/sol41.jpg?w=720&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Little Joe on January 10, 2020, 06:14:12 AM
^^^
I "liked" it because there was no "love it" button.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 10, 2020, 06:17:07 AM
now we are seeing reports that Iran did in fact shoot down the airliner...

I'm sure Iran will release the unaltered orange boxes so that experts can determine the mechanical cause of the crash.

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Username on January 10, 2020, 06:25:03 AM
now we are seeing reports that Iran did in fact shoot down the airliner...

I'm sure Iran will release the unaltered orange boxes so that experts can determine the mechanical cause of the crash.
No!  Orange Box Bad!
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2020, 06:30:42 AM
(https://i0.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/a-nox3-2.jpg?w=750&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2020, 06:41:20 AM
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2020/01/10/ap-misleading-story-about-ukrainian-plane-crash-n2559300
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Mr Pou on January 10, 2020, 07:25:16 AM
Call me crazy, but this thought has crossed my mind:

OK, so maybe someone in the Iranian leadership had determined that Qassim Suleimani had grown too big for his britches, maybe a loose cannon even. But, Iran couldn't be connected with taking him out I'd think, knowing his power and following. So, Trump takes out the bad General, both the US and Iran benefit, and Iran lobs some softballs at the American base to appease the masses.

Nuts, or .......
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Lucifer on January 10, 2020, 07:30:57 AM
Call me crazy, but this thought has crossed my mind:

OK, so maybe someone in the Iranian leadership had determined that Qassim Suleimani had grown too big for his britches, maybe a loose cannon even. But, Iran couldn't be connected with taking him out I'd think, knowing his power and following. So, Trump takes out the bad General, both the US and Iran benefit, and Iran lobs some softballs at the American base to appease the masses.

Nuts, or .......

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/breaking-report-iran-roundup-for-january-4th-thru-9th-general-soleimani-was-betrayed-by-fellow-irgc-members/

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Mr Pou on January 10, 2020, 07:40:34 AM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/01/breaking-report-iran-roundup-for-january-4th-thru-9th-general-soleimani-was-betrayed-by-fellow-irgc-members/

OK, maybe I'm not so nuts. Inside job.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Little Joe on January 10, 2020, 07:47:35 AM
Call me crazy, but this thought has crossed my mind:

OK, so maybe someone in the Iranian leadership had determined that Qassim Suleimani had grown too big for his britches, maybe a loose cannon even. But, Iran couldn't be connected with taking him out I'd think, knowing his power and following. So, Trump takes out the bad General, both the US and Iran benefit, and Iran lobs some softballs at the American base to appease the masses.

Nuts, or .......
You may not be nuts, but I am still having a problem thinking this is over with.

It may take a year or more, but Iran is going to get their revenge eventually.  They are just too smart to do it openly while everyone is watching and waiting.  They will choose their time and place and they will try to hurt us badly.  Sneak attacks are much harder to defend against than open retaliation.  Especially if they think the can plan it so we can't prove it was them, and THAT would take a lot of time to plan and implement.

That's why I think we need to take them out now and force regime change, even though we have never actually been very successful at that.  But in this case, how much worse could it get?  I say take out their entire military and government and turn the country over to the Palestinians or the Israelis.

Then see what Crazy Kim does!

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 10, 2020, 08:20:32 AM
You may not be nuts, but I am still having a problem thinking this is over with.

It may take a year or more, but Iran is going to get their revenge eventually.  They are just too smart to do it openly while everyone is watching and waiting.  They will choose their time and place and they will try to hurt us badly.  Sneak attacks are much harder to defend against than open retaliation.  Especially if they think the can plan it so we can't prove it was them, and THAT would take a lot of time to plan and implement.

That's why I think we need to take them out now and force regime change, even though we have never actually been very successful at that.  But in this case, how much worse could it get?  I say take out their entire military and government and turn the country over to the Palestinians or the Israelis.

Then see what Crazy Kim does!
Why would you encourage the exact same strategy for failure that GWB used in Iraq? How’d that Iraqi regime change work out for them? The people of Iraq and Iran (read ideologically imprisoned by their most extreme adherents) would have to come forward and build a functional, peaceful democracy from the ground up. They can’t do it because SOME of them are always stuck in destroy mode. Remember how excited everyone was when Iraqis could vote for the first time in a real election? And then again? And again? It got them nowhere because members of Parliament kept getting bombed on their way to sessions. So people stopped wanting to be in Parliament.

We can’t “turn” a country over to anyone if the country isn’t ours to begin with. These scumbags look at revenge as generational and do not value life, theirs or anyone else’s. We all know they’ll strike us again and they’re willing to die in planes or by strapping explosives to themselves. They’ll always be a plague on the civilized world.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: nddons on January 10, 2020, 08:40:02 AM
No!  Orange Box Bad!
Pilot Spin post of the day! 

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on January 10, 2020, 10:23:20 AM
Call me crazy, but this thought has crossed my mind:

OK, so maybe someone in the Iranian leadership had determined that Qassim Suleimani had grown too big for his britches, maybe a loose cannon even. But, Iran couldn't be connected with taking him out I'd think, knowing his power and following. So, Trump takes out the bad General, both the US and Iran benefit, and Iran lobs some softballs at the American base to appease the masses.

Nuts, or .......

Agree, had similar thought. The leadership doesn't seem too heartbroken over his demise.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Little Joe on January 10, 2020, 10:24:15 AM
Why would you encourage the exact same strategy for failure that GWB used in Iraq?
Nowhere and nohow did I encourage even a similar strategy that we used in Iraq.

In Iraq, we sacrificed our troops by ROEs that prevented them from defending themselves from citizens.
We (some of us) were convinced the Iraqi's would greet our troops in the streets of Baghdad with open arms and flower bouquets.
We tried to forge alliances with known enemies of ours just because they were enemies of our other enemies.
We paid those allies millions of dollars and gave them weapons, only to have them renege and we would do the same thing with other enemies of ours.
We tried to force "democracy" on a population that has no respect for, or history of democracy.
We tried to rebuild them in our image.

Where in the world did you get from my post that I was advocating for any of that?
And if you didn't deduce any of those things from my post, then what did you think I was advocating that was similar to GWB and Iraq other than "attack the shit out of them and destroy their ability to be a threat to us?"

I just don't see how you thought I was encouraging another Iraq type incursion.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Little Joe on January 10, 2020, 10:30:22 AM

We can’t “turn” a country over to anyone if the country isn’t ours to begin with.
Once we "conquer" them, it is our country to do with as we please.  But since I don't think any of us want that place, we can turn it over to whoever we want.

Quote
These scumbags look at revenge as generational and do not value life, theirs or anyone else’s. We all know they’ll strike us again and they’re willing to die in planes or by strapping explosives to themselves. They’ll always be a plague on the civilized world.
If you read some of my other posts, you will see that I said the same thing.  That's why we need to destroy them now rather than wait until our short sighted, shallow memory forgets about them and then they attack us.  Even if Russia steps in and takes over the country, that wouldn't be as bad as having radical Ayatollahs in control.  At least we understand the mind set of Russians. 
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: nddons on January 10, 2020, 12:12:38 PM
Nowhere and nohow did I encourage even a similar strategy that we used in Iraq.

In Iraq, we sacrificed our troops by ROEs that prevented them from defending themselves from citizens.
We (some of us) were convinced the Iraqi's would greet our troops in the streets of Baghdad with open arms and flower bouquets.
We tried to forge alliances with known enemies of ours just because they were enemies of our other enemies.
We paid those allies millions of dollars and gave them weapons, only to have them renege and we would do the same thing with other enemies of ours.
We tried to force "democracy" on a population that has no respect for, or history of democracy.
We tried to rebuild them in our image.

Where in the world did you get from my post that I was advocating for any of that?
And if you didn't deduce any of those things from my post, then what did you think I was advocating that was similar to GWB and Iraq other than "attack the shit out of them and destroy their ability to be a threat to us?"

I just don't see how you thought I was encouraging another Iraq type incursion.
To be fair to Becky, when you suggested taking them out (whatever that means) and forcing regime change, I had the same
Impression. Regime change was a driving force in Gulf War II.
Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Little Joe on January 10, 2020, 01:10:21 PM
To be fair to Becky, when you suggested taking them out (whatever that means) and forcing regime change, I had the same
Impression. Regime change was a driving force in Gulf War II.
I don't mind being fair to Becky.  Becky is one of my favorite people on the board.

But sometimes it gets frustrating when people take one word of a post and long jump to conclusions about things you never said and never meant.  One other person on this board has been doing that a lot to me lately.

Title: Re: Escalation
Post by: Anthony on January 10, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
I don't mind being fair to Becky.  Becky is one of my favorite people on the board.

But sometimes it gets frustrating when people take one word of a post and long jump to conclusions about things you never said and never meant.  One other person on this board has been doing that a lot to me lately.

See, that just confirms you are a far left, progressive Hillary supporter.  Plus, you are secretly obsessed (and not in a good way) with Greta Thunberg!



 ;D