PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on January 15, 2020, 12:16:42 PM

Title: Linking accounts
Post by: Rush on January 15, 2020, 12:16:42 PM
Am I crazy?   I want to move money from Bank B into Bank A.  When I go online, to Bank A website, it says I can link to my Bank B account and then just transfer money easily without having to mail paper checks around or drive to a branch.

Sounds easy but I'm having trouble trusting my Bank B account numbers to Bank A.  On the other hand, if I go deposit a paper check, they see the account numbers anyway!  And it sure would be nice not to have to leave the house to transfer money.

I just feel really weird connecting accounts like that. Even worse, our financial advisor wants us to link all our accounts to their website so he can see our "total financial picture" to better advise us.  It's not a matter of not trusting the advisor, he's been with us for over 30 years, that's not the point.

In the past I never would have done this, but these days it seems the trend. It just feels really creepy to me. What do you guys think? Am I just getting too old to get with the program? Get off my lawn!
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Bob Noel on January 15, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
One question is whether or not either bank will charge a fee for such a transfer

(if I understand correctly, Citizens Bank will charge a fee for an electronic transfer to an account in a different bank, at least for small business accounts)

Do you have confidence that the bank will protect your account information for your accounts at that bank?  If so, why wouldn't they protect foreign account information (in another bank, not country)?
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Rush on January 15, 2020, 01:35:54 PM
One question is whether or not either bank will charge a fee for such a transfer

(if I understand correctly, Citizens Bank will charge a fee for an electronic transfer to an account in a different bank, at least for small business accounts)

Good question!!

Quote
Do you have confidence that the bank will protect your account information for your accounts at that bank?  If so, why wouldn't they protect foreign account information (in another bank, not country)?

Oh hellz no! Of course I don't trust them. But keeping all my money in my mattress at the house is even less safe. But you make a good point. It might be exposing myself to a slightly increased risk (2 accounts compromised instead of one if their server is hacked) but very small compared to the convenience, and you also have to compare it to the risk you take getting in the car and driving to the bank, so there's that. And aren't they insured by FDIC anyway?  I guess I'll do it.

But in the case of our advisor, I just read the Terms and Conditions, and I see that we have the option of manually entering the accounts, rather than giving them real account numbers, passwords and login info.  That way they can't be hacked, but they can still look at our "total financial picture".  I will just have to manually go in and update balances periodically.

Because of the Terms, I am NOT going to give them active links. The plus side would be you have a constant real time fluid picture of all your accounts, and they have analytics and budgeting stuff, so you can control and track all your money in one spot.  I can see why some people would like that.
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Mase on January 15, 2020, 01:52:16 PM

I tried one of these transfers once, and it took 4 days to go thru.   Now what I do is an electronic deposit.  Both banks have electronic deposit.  I write a check on one account, take a picture of it with my phone, and use the bank's app to deposit it in the other bank.  Work like a charm.
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Rush on January 15, 2020, 02:54:19 PM
I tried one of these transfers once, and it took 4 days to go thru.   Now what I do is an electronic deposit.  Both banks have electronic deposit.  I write a check on one account, take a picture of it with my phone, and use the bank's app to deposit it in the other bank.  Work like a charm.

Do you do that on your phone?  I'm scared to do any banking on my phone. This video is one reason why.  Although I think even if you don't use your phone to bank, you're still vulnerable if your phone is where they send verification numbers and password changes if someone gets your username info.

Can I take a picture and then upload it to my PC and use the bank's "app" on my PC to send them the picture?  Might have to check that out.

Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Little Joe on January 15, 2020, 03:09:06 PM
One question is whether or not either bank will charge a fee for such a transfer

(if I understand correctly, Citizens Bank will charge a fee for an electronic transfer to an account in a different bank, at least for small business accounts)

Do you have confidence that the bank will protect your account information for your accounts at that bank?  If so, why wouldn't they protect foreign account information (in another bank, not country)?
Ok Boomer.

I'm sure they already know about your other accounts, or at least could find out.
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 15, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
Do you do that on your phone?  I'm scared to do any banking on my phone. This video is one reason why.  Although I think even if you don't use your phone to bank, you're still vulnerable if your phone is where they send verification numbers and password changes if someone gets your username info.

Can I take a picture and then upload it to my PC and use the bank's "app" on my PC to send them the picture?  Might have to check that out.



Steve Lehto has some great vids - seems to churn them out.

More carriers are starting to add guards against the SIM swap scam; this page lists the security enhancements of some major US carriers:
https://clark.com/cell-phones/sim-card-swapping/ (https://clark.com/cell-phones/sim-card-swapping/)
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Mase on January 15, 2020, 05:11:47 PM
Do you do that on your phone?  I'm scared to do any banking on my phone. This video is one reason why.  Although I think even if you don't use your phone to bank, you're still vulnerable if your phone is where they send verification numbers and password changes if someone gets your username info.

Can I take a picture and then upload it to my PC and use the bank's "app" on my PC to ...

It is all done on my phone.  I don't know if the app will run on a laptop or desktop but if it would, you would need to use the camera on that device.
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: EppyGA on January 15, 2020, 06:04:15 PM
I was the EAA Chapter treasurer for the last two years. I did all check deposits with the phone paid almost all bills with bill pay, wrote very few paper checks. We use Square for credit card processing.
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 15, 2020, 08:06:41 PM
Am I crazy?
Not gonna touch that one with the proverbial ten foot pole!

Quote
I want to move money from Bank B into Bank A.  When I go online, to Bank A website, it says I can link to my Bank B account and then just transfer money easily without having to mail paper checks around or drive to a branch.

Sounds easy but I'm having trouble trusting my Bank B account numbers to Bank A.  On the other hand, if I go deposit a paper check, they see the account numbers anyway!  And it sure would be nice not to have to leave the house to transfer money.

I just feel really weird connecting accounts like that.

Last spring I needed to transfer all the money from a credit union to a bank but wanted to do it online. The credit union account belonged to our two person corporation and we were dissolving it. The credit union system needed to verify that bank account was really ours to send money to, so what it did was do a credit of a random amount (under a dollar) followed by a debit of the same amount. The credit union system then wanted me to tell it what that random value was. I think I had one (maybe two?) chances to get it right and a limited amount of time to enter the number. To know the amount I would have to be able to view that account transaction record for the target bank account. Presumably only the account owner would be able to see that in the time given. Even with all that I think it took a couple days for full authorization to be granted.

Quote
Even worse, our financial advisor wants us to link all our accounts to their website so he can see our "total financial picture" to better advise us.  It's not a matter of not trusting the advisor, he's been with us for over 30 years, that's not the point.

In the past I never would have done this, but these days it seems the trend. It just feels really creepy to me. What do you guys think? Am I just getting too old to get with the program? Get off my lawn!

All the FA needs to know your financial picture is relatively current statements of any accounts not already with his firm. The problem with linking is that one system needs to be given the password of the other system, and it obviously can't be stored in a one-way hash, so it is always recoverable by bad guys. For a short time I linked my brokerage account with our main bank account, which required I put my bank login credentials on the brokerage system. After a while I became paranoid about having those stored in unknown form on the brokerage's system, so unlinked the accounts and changed the password on the bank account.

Lastly, I have never had a FA, but the best financial advice I've seen in a concise form are these two books:

How to Make Your Money Last: The Indispensable Retirement Guide Kindle Edition
by Jane Bryant Quinn
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P434BTE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o03?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P434BTE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o03?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

How a Second Grader Beats Wall Street: Golden Rules Any Investor Can Learn Kindle Edition
by Allan S. Roth
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0023SDQXA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0023SDQXA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Rush on January 16, 2020, 09:18:06 AM
Not gonna touch that one with the proverbial ten foot pole!

LOL!  That's what my husband says.

Quote
Last spring I needed to transfer all the money from a credit union to a bank but wanted to do it online. The credit union account belonged to our two person corporation and we were dissolving it. The credit union system needed to verify that bank account was really ours to send money to, so what it did was do a credit of a random amount (under a dollar) followed by a debit of the same amount. The credit union system then wanted me to tell it what that random value was. I think I had one (maybe two?) chances to get it right and a limited amount of time to enter the number. To know the amount I would have to be able to view that account transaction record for the target bank account. Presumably only the account owner would be able to see that in the time given. Even with all that I think it took a couple days for full authorization to be granted.

Thanks for explaining that, if I decide to do it that way I know what to expect.  One of mine is actually a credit union too and I wondered if that would make any difference.

Quote
All the FA needs to know your financial picture is relatively current statements of any accounts not already with his firm. The problem with linking is that one system needs to be given the password of the other system, and it obviously can't be stored in a one-way hash, so it is always recoverable by bad guys. For a short time I linked my brokerage account with our main bank account, which required I put my bank login credentials on the brokerage system. After a while I became paranoid about having those stored in unknown form on the brokerage's system, so unlinked the accounts and changed the password on the bank account.

Lastly, I have never had a FA, but the best financial advice I've seen in a concise form are these two books:

How to Make Your Money Last: The Indispensable Retirement Guide Kindle Edition
by Jane Bryant Quinn
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P434BTE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o03?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P434BTE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o03?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

How a Second Grader Beats Wall Street: Golden Rules Any Investor Can Learn Kindle Edition
by Allan S. Roth
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0023SDQXA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0023SDQXA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Yep, them requiring the passwords is what stops me.  I just don't see any good giving not only the firm, but their external "service provider" that information. The terms list all kind of people who will then "see" not only the basic account information, but in some cases down to a transaction level. Supposedly you can turn off the transaction level visibility, but there are still exceptions to that. There is no way in hell I'm giving permission to view transactions to anyone. If I were a total idiot who couldn't budget, and were looking for a parent figure, that might be different. Then they can tell me I'm spending too much at Starbucks. But I can budget on my own without that level of scrutiny thank you very much.

I went in and manually entered everything without any account information.  Assets:  "House: $xxxx,  Cash on hand:  $xxxx,  My 401(k): $xxxx, Hubby's 401(k): $xxxx."  Just like that, with zero identifying numbers.  That's all they need to know to advise us, and I can go in an update every quarter before our quarterly conference call.

Great books, I'll check them out. Our FA came with my husband when I married him decades ago, with a firm HIS father had used, and there was no way I could fight that, lots of our other family members on both my side and my husband's side are with him too so at this point I just go along with the flow.
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 16, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
I went in and manually entered everything without any account information.  Assets:  "House: $xxxx,  Cash on hand:  $xxxx,  My 401(k): $xxxx, Hubby's 401(k): $xxxx."  Just like that, with zero identifying numbers.  That's all they need to know to advise us, and I can go in an update every quarter before our quarterly conference call.

If you haven't already broken it out for the FA, I'm fairly certain he willl want to know the dollar amount of each of the mutual funds, stocks, bonds, etc. that you hold in the 401(k) and any other brokerage accounts. From doing my own financial planning, the single most critical (and often difficult) number to come up with is future annual expenses. We'll have no problem meeting my best estimate of essential expenses (based on our last 5 years of expense data) and a pretty good chance of maintaining the same level of discretionary spending.
Title: Re: Linking accounts
Post by: Rush on January 16, 2020, 12:06:01 PM
If you haven't already broken it out for the FA, I'm fairly certain he willl want to know the dollar amount of each of the mutual funds, stocks, bonds, etc. that you hold in the 401(k) and any other brokerage accounts. From doing my own financial planning, the single most critical (and often difficult) number to come up with is future annual expenses. We'll have no problem meeting my best estimate of essential expenses (based on our last 5 years of expense data) and a pretty good chance of maintaining the same level of discretionary spending.

Yes he does want to know how it's broken out. We've discussed it on paper in the past. This technology entering it online is new. When I "created" the 401(k) account in the system, there was a drop down list and you could only pick one. They need to work on that, it made no sense. Most of my account is in U.S. equities so I just clicked on that but I will have to verbally tell him how it's actually broken down. I think they probably want you to link the actual account so it all happens automatically but I am not going to do that.

Agree about the future expenses!  A couple of years ago he did a projection for us, assuming we retired right then. There was a spaghetti chart similar to the hurricane landfall charts, where our projected remaining wealth at age 98 was anywhere between 0 and multiple millions, all depending on how we spend. Historical spending is a very good place to start but there will be important changes after retirement. I'm not liking this transition phase of life... at all.