PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on February 16, 2020, 07:48:13 AM
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Not that I fear the Corona virus itself. But look at how dependent both our and China's economy is on us buying all their shit, including medical supplies. If this proceeds much further, we are going to find ourselves with massive shortages of EVERYTHING. It will take a lot of time to crank up our own manufacturing and production again, especially in light of China also being the source of raw materials. We might be headed for an economic and social disaster the likes of which we have not even imagined, for its sudden unexpected and total onset. China would be even more devastated. This is not looking good.
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/02/13/coronavirus-outbreak-exposes-chinas-monopoly-on-u-s-drug-medical-supplies/
I won't quote from the whole article, you guys need to read the whole thing, including the bright side of Trump's "trade war" (getting us less dependent on China), but the dark side if this happens any time this year (Trump might not get re-elected).
The implications if China doesn't get this thing under control soon are terrifying.
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For the short term pain this is going to have, I see it as a good thing.
It will bring even more opportunities back to this side of the world, and it will further destroy China's economy.
We should have never put ourselves (USA) in the position in the first place. And we fueled the expansion of China by doing so. So now we have the Chinese Chernobyl in progress, let them eat it. Those bastards manufactured that virus to be used as a weapon and it backfired on a huge scale. Let the world learn from this.
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I rarely get sick, thankfully. I remember back around 1992 or 1993 I got a Flu virus that was going around at work. I was sick for over two weeks, but only missed one day of work as back then, at least in my industry, the pressure to be in work was enormous. Plus the technology wasn't there yet to work from home.
People would drag themselves into work, me included, sick as HELL. I don't think I ever felt that poorly, for so long as I did with that Flu virus. So quarantine those people! We don't need more of it here. If we have shortages, then maybe it will spur some more manufacturing here. I guess this shows how our economic policy over the past 40 - 50 years has been short sighted and somewhat a failure.
Trump is doing the right things, finally, with our Trade Policy, yet look at all the resistance and lies from the Media and Democrats.
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Agree with both of you, especially that this will be good in the long run despite short term pain IF we can keep Trump and keep returning to self sufficiency. Trade with other nations is and always has been a good thing, but, like alcohol, only in moderation.
The only thing I disagree with is I'm not convinced it was manufactured. I can very easily see it jumping from live animals to humans in China, a place with unbelievably filthy disgusting food habits. Habits that are fine for isolated primitive tribes; horrific for large urban modern cities.
China is a hot mess, with a deep denial complex.
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Not that I fear the Corona virus itself. But look at how dependent both our and China's economy is on us buying all their shit, including medical supplies. If this proceeds much further, we are going to find ourselves with massive shortages of EVERYTHING. It will take a lot of time to crank up our own manufacturing and production again, especially in light of China also being the source of raw materials. We might be headed for an economic and social disaster the likes of which we have not even imagined, for its sudden unexpected and total onset. China would be even more devastated. This is not looking good.
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/02/13/coronavirus-outbreak-exposes-chinas-monopoly-on-u-s-drug-medical-supplies/
I won't quote from the whole article, you guys need to read the whole thing, including the bright side of Trump's "trade war" (getting us less dependent on China), but the dark side if this happens any time this year (Trump might not get re-elected).
The implications if China doesn't get this thing under control soon are terrifying.
The Trump train needs to keep rolling. Last year twice I had two BP meds pop up on an FDA recall list for possible carcinogens because they were manufactured in fucking China. Why the fuck are our Pharma companies making this stuff there? I’m a free market guy, but I would have no problem with Trump telling big pharma that if you are under US patent protection, with resulting high costs, you God damned better make that shit in THIS country.
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The Trump train needs to keep rolling. Last year twice I had two BP meds pop up on an FDA recall list for possible carcinogens because they were manufactured in fucking China. Why the fuck are our Pharma companies making this stuff there? I’m a free market guy, but I would have no problem with Trump telling big pharma that if you are under US patent protection, with resulting high costs, you God damned better make that shit in THIS country.
YES!!! Me too. There was a time all our pills were made in this country. I saw a distinct difference in quality when they started coming from India and now direct China. WTFingF????
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YES!!! Me too. There was a time all our pills were made in this country. I saw a distinct difference in quality when they started coming from India and now direct China. WTFingF????
My company is a strategic partner to most of the largest Pharma companies in the U.S. The reason they use us is their cost structure is out of control from the days when they all were printing money. The entire model has shifted due to their lack of profitability to the extent one of the majors moved their HQ from NYC to Ireland. They also now outsource most of their R&D to companies in India and China.
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My company is a strategic partner to most of the largest Pharma companies in the U.S. The reason they use us is their cost structure is out of control from the days when they all were printing money. The entire model has shifted due to their lack of profitability to the extent one of the majors moved their HQ from NYC to Ireland. They also now outsource most of their R&D to companies in India and China.
I figured it had to do with cost and profit. And people still think drugs are too expensive. Why? Are the researchers in India paid less than researchers here? I’m guessing yes? Cheap labor to manufacture I get.
So is it basically like everything else “made in China”? Cheaper because no minimum wage laws and little regulation?
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I figured it had to do with cost and profit. And people still think drugs are too expensive. Why? Are the researchers in India paid less than researchers here? I’m guessing yes? Cheap labor to manufacture I get.
So is it basically like everything else “made in China”? Cheaper because no minimum wage laws and little regulation?
It is incredibly difficult and expensive to bring a drug to market in the U.S. The FDA is very, very strict, and makes it difficult, but then again you don't want to be taking drugs that are dangerous either.
The R&D process is super expensive with an extremely low rate of success. Then you have a limited window before your patent expires if you are able to bring a drug to market. The FDA approval process takes an average of 8 - 10 years, then you get a 20 year patent to make your money.
Yes it is cheaper to do the R&D and manufacturing in India, China, Philippines, and elsewhere. Is the quality there? It depends. I take no prescription medication, but friends tell me they can tell the difference with generics, etc.
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It is incredibly difficult and expensive to bring a drug to market in the U.S. The FDA is very, very strict, and makes it difficult, but then again you don't want to be taking drugs that are dangerous either.
The R&D process is super expensive with an extremely low rate of success. Then you have a limited window before your patent expires if you are able to bring a drug to market. The FDA approval process takes an average of 8 - 10 years, then you get a 20 year patent to make your money.
Yes it is cheaper to do the R&D and manufacturing in India, China, Philippines, and elsewhere. Is the quality there? It depends. I take no prescription medication, but friends tell me they can tell the difference with generics, etc.
The FDA approval process seems really out of whack.
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The FDA approval process seems really out of whack.
Watch broadcast TV. Pay attention to about every 3rd or 4th commercial. It's a law firm asking if you or your family has been hurt, or killed, by taking _________ (insert name of medication).
Yes, the US has a very strict approval process under the FDA, but we have some of the safest medications in the world. And even with that, we have vultures lawyers who are trying to cash in on the few that the medication didn't help, or ran afoul of. Nothing in this world is perfect, and no medication is perfect.
And generic drugs from 3rd world countries? China? NFW.
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It is incredibly difficult and expensive to bring a drug to market in the U.S. The FDA is very, very strict, and makes it difficult, but then again you don't want to be taking drugs that are dangerous either.
The FDA routinely approves dangerous drugs. For example, I happen to be taking two different drugs for rheumatoid arthritis - one can lead to blindness, the other can cause liver damage. All FDA approved drugs for RA have dangers. What the FDA does is weigh the benefits vs risks and approves those it believes have benefits that outweigh risks. The choices it disapproves of are never made an option to the public. Many people mistakenly think that because a drug is approved by the FDA, it must be safe.
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The FDA routinely approves dangerous drugs. For example, I happen to be taking two different drugs for rheumatoid arthritis - one can lead to blindness, the other can cause liver damage. All FDA approved drugs for RA have dangers. What the FDA does is weigh the benefits vs risks and approves those it believes have benefits that outweigh risks. The choices it disapproves of are never made an option to the public. Many people mistakenly think that because a drug is approved by the FDA, it must be safe.
That’s what bothers me about it. The government telling me I cannot try a treatment until it approves. Meanwhile I can die of cancer because the FDA won’t let me try a new drug because it might have dangerous side effects. Let ME make the choice.
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That’s what bothers me about it. The government telling me I cannot try a treatment until it approves. Meanwhile I can die of cancer because the FDA won’t let me try a new drug because it might have dangerous side effects. Let ME make the choice.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/trump-keeps-promise-dying-patients-second-chance-at-life-right-to-try-act
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The FDA routinely approves dangerous drugs. For example, I happen to be taking two different drugs for rheumatoid arthritis - one can lead to blindness, the other can cause liver damage. All FDA approved drugs for RA have dangers. What the FDA does is weigh the benefits vs risks and approves those it believes have benefits that outweigh risks. The choices it disapproves of are never made an option to the public. Many people mistakenly think that because a drug is approved by the FDA, it must be safe.
Yes, but they are known and identified. I am talking about stuff that would be unknown, which still occur, but would be much worse. You know the risks and potential side effects BEFORE you start taking them.
Just listen to all the potential side effects on a TV commercial for a drug. I especially like the ones for anti depressants and the risk of suicide.
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Yes, but they are known and identified. I am talking about stuff that would be unknown, which still occur, but would be much worse. You know the risks and potential side effects BEFORE you start taking them.
Just listen to all the potential side effects on a TV commercial for a drug. I especially like the ones for anti depressants and the risk of suicide.
My fave is the number of bone building drugs that we’re warned may increase risk of fracture.
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Yes, but they are known and identified. I am talking about stuff that would be unknown, which still occur, but would be much worse. You know the risks and potential side effects BEFORE you start taking them.
Just listen to all the potential side effects on a TV commercial for a drug. I especially like the ones for anti depressants and the risk of suicide.
It's my understanding that the listed potential side effects are all the side effects reported during trials, not just those that could actually be caused by the drug. One consequence is that the side effects could include both constipation and diarrhea.
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It's my understanding that the listed potential side effects are all the side effects reported during trials, not just those that could actually be caused by the drug. One consequence is that the side effects could include both constipation and diarrhea.
This is one of the huge problems with the current system. The requirement to list all side effects reported regardless of whether the drug caused them results in the list being meaningless.
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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/trump-keeps-promise-dying-patients-second-chance-at-life-right-to-try-act
Trump to the rescue yet again!
This is the problem:
hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost due to ever-increasing FDA clinical demands
The “ever increasing”. Government is always a runaway train. It can never just stop at good enough.
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My fave is the number of bone building drugs that we’re warned may increase risk of fracture.
Antidepressants and bone building drugs and statins are some of my pet peeves. The FDA approves these dangerous and ineffective drugs while withholding approval for lifesaving drugs. Or they will approve drugs that are effective but highly dangerous when there are completely safe known treatments that can’t be patented. Oral Lamisil comes to mind. For toenail fungus exactly as effective as topically applied vinegar but unlike vinegar can ruin your liver and also unlike vinegar makes the drug companies profit.
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I met some of the guys and gals (PhD's) that worked on the R&D for Viagra, and they told me that it was originally a heart medication, but didn't do what they wanted, but it had a certain side effect.
I asked them if they had a drug that could produce a young Raquel Welch as that would induce the same effect. :) They proceeded to ask me who that was.
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I asked them if they had a drug that could produce a young Raquel Welch as that would induce the same effect. :) They proceeded to ask me who that was.
ouch
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ouch
Yep.
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My students have never heard of Jimmy Hoffa. I think the media hype about Corona is highly overblown. China has a billion people. A couple thousand dying is nothing to them. Most of their response is simply pablum for public consumption. They'll be back to business as normal soon enough.
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My students have never heard of Jimmy Hoffa. I think the media hype about Corona is highly overblown. China has a billion people. A couple thousand dying is nothing to them. Most of their response is simply pablum for public consumption. They'll be back to business as normal soon enough.
I think you are exactly right. I think this is being way overblown, just like the mmgw hockey stick graph.
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My students have never heard of Jimmy Hoffa. I think the media hype about Corona is highly overblown. China has a billion people. A couple thousand dying is nothing to them. Most of their response is simply pablum for public consumption. They'll be back to business as normal soon enough.
I wonder how many dying would it take before you would consider it a problem...
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I wonder how many dying would it take before you would consider it a problem...
The CDC estimates that as many as 56,000 people die from the flu or flu-like illness each year.
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/how-many-people-die-from-the-flu-each-year-and-how-is-it-prevented
Coronavirus Death 1,875
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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My students have never heard of Jimmy Hoffa. I think the media hype about Corona is highly overblown. China has a billion people. A couple thousand dying is nothing to them. Most of their response is simply pablum for public consumption. They'll be back to business as normal soon enough.
I hope to God you're right.
Maybe you know the answer to this question: is it true that we don't develop immunity to this virus? I heard that somewhere but they were making it sound like we can't develop immunity to this specific virus, but maybe they were talking about it mutating, and not being immune to the new mutant version. If the former is the case, why? Is this such a new type that homo sapiens sapiens can't deal with it? If the latter, does it mutate faster than any other flu virus?
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The CDC estimates that as many as 56,000 people die from the flu or flu-like illness each year.
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/how-many-people-die-from-the-flu-each-year-and-how-is-it-prevented
Coronavirus Death 1,875
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
The CDC is full of shit. You are right that number includes "flu-like illness" but that has nothing whatsoever to do with influenza. Actual flu death in the US is FAR fewer than 56,000.
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I met some of the guys and gals (PhD's) that worked on the R&D for Viagra, and they told me that it was originally a heart medication, but didn't do what they wanted, but it had a certain side effect.
I asked them if they had a drug that could produce a young Raquel Welch as that would induce the same effect. :) They proceeded to ask me who that was.
Oh dear God.
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The CDC estimates that as many as 56,000 people die from the flu or flu-like illness each year.
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/how-many-people-die-from-the-flu-each-year-and-how-is-it-prevented
Coronavirus Death 1,875
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Often the people that die from the Flu are old/older, and suffering from other ailments and maladies and the Flu puts them over the edge. Not saying it's a good thing, or that we shouldn't be concerned and trying to minimize the deaths.
I've never been on a cruise, but I'd be hard pressed to get on one especially now.
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The CDC is full of shit. You are right that number includes "flu-like illness" but that has nothing whatsoever to do with influenza. Actual flu death in the US is FAR fewer than 56,000.
Well shit, I should of expected that getting my information from a government agency
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Well shit, I should of expected that getting my information from a government agency
LOL! I hear ya.
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I hope to God you're right.
Maybe you know the answer to this question: is it true that we don't develop immunity to this virus? I heard that somewhere but they were making it sound like we can't develop immunity to this specific virus, but maybe they were talking about it mutating, and not being immune to the new mutant version. If the former is the case, why? Is this such a new type that homo sapiens sapiens can't deal with it? If the latter, does it mutate faster than any other flu virus?
The problem with influenza is the virus has multiple chromosomes, so if strains intermix they can swap and come out different. That's why it can come back year after year. SARS was a coronavirus, and while it did wreak havoc, it disappeared fairly rapidly. I suspect that the new coronavirus making the rounds in China will fare similarly.
I'm reading conflicting reports on this coronavirus. Some say it's as deadly as the Spanish Influenza that killed more people that WWI, but others that say the mortality is limited and it kills mostly the old and infirm (Spanish flu killed young people).
It still doesn't sound as bad as influenza. Most people who think they've had influenza haven't, they had a nasty rhinovirus or something. There is no such thing as 24-hour influenza. If you get the flu you will either think you're going to die or actively want to die. Flu kills lots and lots of people every year. Mrs. Steingar had it last year, I didn't have to hospitalize her but she wasn't right again for 3 weeks.
I really do hope the Chinese can get past this. I don't wish this sort of viral disease on anyone.
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The problem with influenza is the virus has multiple chromosomes, so if strains intermix they can swap and come out different. That's why it can come back year after year. SARS was a coronavirus, and while it did wreak havoc, it disappeared fairly rapidly. I suspect that the new coronavirus making the rounds in China will fare similarly.
I'm reading conflicting reports on this coronavirus. Some say it's as deadly as the Spanish Influenza that killed more people that WWI, but others that say the mortality is limited and it kills mostly the old and infirm (Spanish flu killed young people).
It still doesn't sound as bad as influenza. Most people who think they've had influenza haven't, they had a nasty rhinovirus or something. There is no such thing as 24-hour influenza. If you get the flu you will either think you're going to die or actively want to die. Flu kills lots and lots of people every year. Mrs. Steingar had it last year, I didn't have to hospitalize her but she wasn't right again for 3 weeks.
I really do hope the Chinese can get past this. I don't wish this sort of viral disease on anyone.
Agree! I got the actual flu (lab confirmed) a couple of years ago and came close to going to the ER one night for thinking I was going to die. But I was too sick to care to wake up my husband and just thought if I die here in bed tonight so be it. I was sick for three weeks too.
I like that it doesn’t kill the young like the Spanish flu. But what’s bothersome is the long incubation period. I’m thinking that might make it harder to contain. Do you know how that compares to SARS?
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Agree! I got the actual flu (lab confirmed) a couple of years ago and came close to going to the ER one night for thinking I was going to die. But I was too sick to care to wake up my husband and just thought if I die here in bed tonight so be it. I was sick for three weeks too.
I like that it doesn’t kill the young like the Spanish flu. But what’s bothersome is the long incubation period. I’m thinking that might make it harder to contain. Do you know how that compares to SARS?
Honestly I don't. That said, I'm not convinced about the latency, this is coming from China after all. Moreover, usually if a virus is infective that means that there's significant viral titer in the pulmonary system, meaning there is a focal infection. If you're sufficiently infected to shed enough virus to be contagious I think you're going to know it. I find it hard to believe you can be asymptomatic and shed this sort of virus. This sounds a lot more like Chinese officials trying to find excuses for who they let this get so out of hand.
What I read this morning is these sorts of viruses can persist on surfaces for a long time. All this said, I still don't think it's as bad as influenza, and I do believe warm weather will put a stop to it. With any luck it can be contained below pandemic status until then.
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The wikipedia entry for the virus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_novel_coronavirus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_novel_coronavirus), has a link to the NIH page that lists the 29,903 bases of the viral genome, as sequenced by researchers at Fudan University in Shanghai: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MN908947 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MN908947). Seems to code for 10 proteins, if I understand the data correctly.
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I wonder how many dying would it take before you would consider it a problem...
In all fairness to Steingar, what he said was that a few thousand deaths means nothing to the CCP. And I believe he is right.
But you can chastise me if you wish because I don't think a few thousand, or a few hundred thousand, or more Chinese deaths represent a problem.
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In all fairness to Steingar, what he said was that a few thousand deaths means nothing to the CCP. And I believe he is right.
fair enough
But you can chastise me if you wish because I don't think a few thousand, or a few hundred thousand, or more Chinese deaths represent a problem.
Your concern for others is an inspiration for all.
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Your concern for others is an inspiration for all.
I understand it is not PC to say such a thing, but I just don't have the great fear of death that most people have. Everyone is going to die soon anyway. Many of the theories of why this virus is causing so much trouble, in fact, why it even got started in the first place, is because there are too many people living in too close proximity. This is nature's way of thinning the herd. Why should that bother me? It's not like I'm advocating murdering people.
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I understand it is not PC to say such a thing, ...
wow - talk about missing the point.
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wow - talk about missing the point.
You have this impression that we somehow understand your emotions and your tone and facial expressions. I have no idea what your point was.
But my point is that I don't care if a few hundred million Chinese check out a few years earlier than expected.
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So listening to NPR this morning (I know, you guys think of it as a bastion of left-wing falsehoods, but I digress) they interviewed Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID). If anyone would know about an infectious disease, it'd be him.
He said about what I was thinking, that most people who contract this coronavirus get a very mild disease akin to a cold, with accompanying fever and pulmonary symptoms. However, if you're elderly, have underlying cardiac or pulmonary conditions or are immunocompromised the infection can develop into a dangerous pneumonia that can be life-threatening absent treatment.
You should of course never go into work or associate with groups of people when you have a fever. Treatment for coronavirus is the same as any other virus, stay at home, rest, drink lots of fluids. Seek medical treatment if symptoms persist or the fever grows too high. The cutoff for the emergency room a the Steinholme is 103. That is, I see that on the thermometer and the decision is made to head to the ER.
And I still think you'd be better served worrying about the flu, as you're far more likely to get it and it's far more likely to be worse.
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^^^^^Then after that probably fair assessment and good info on a disease, NPR had three stories on the oppression of LGBT, two stories about how Trump hates minorities and only White Supremacists like him, the plight of "Undocumented Immigrants", how the U.S. is a Colonial Power, and that we should have "Hate Speech" laws.
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^^^^^Then after that probably fair assessment and good info on a disease, NPR had three stories on the oppression of LGBT, two stories about how Trump hates minorities and only White Supremacists like him, the plight of "Undocumented Immigrants", how the U.S. is a Colonial Power, and that we should have "Hate Speech" laws.
Obviously you listen to it more than I. It is one of the few things I can tune in on my arm clock. I'd have turned it off, but they said they were interviewing Fauci and I wanted to hear what he had to say. Again, nothing I hadn't thought of, but nice to hear confirmation from as unimpeachable a source as I could imagine.
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So listening to NPR this morning (I know, you guys think of it as a bastion of left-wing falsehoods, but I digress) they interviewed Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID). If anyone would know about an infectious disease, it'd be him.
He said about what I was thinking, that most people who contract this coronavirus get a very mild disease akin to a cold, with accompanying fever and pulmonary symptoms. However, if you're elderly, have underlying cardiac or pulmonary conditions or are immunocompromised the infection can develop into a dangerous pneumonia that can be life-threatening absent treatment.
You should of course never go into work or associate with groups of people when you have a fever. Treatment for coronavirus is the same as any other virus, stay at home, rest, drink lots of fluids. Seek medical treatment if symptoms persist or the fever grows too high. The cutoff for the emergency room a the Steinholme is 103. That is, I see that on the thermometer and the decision is made to head to the ER.
And I still think you'd be better served worrying about the flu, as you're far more likely to get it and it's far more likely to be worse.
Good info. I would add when you grow older maybe the temp cutoff should be lower. Elderly people sometimes can’t marshal the immune system into a high fever even if they’re very sick. Not saying you’re that elderly yet. ;D
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https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-19-20-intl-hnk/index.html
Here's how deadly coronavirus is, according to Chinese health officials
The Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention has calculated a case fatality rate of 2.3% for the novel coronavirus — meaning 2.3% of those known to be infected have died.
Some context: This is higher than influenza, which may hover around 0.1% — but far lower than SARS (9.6%) and MERS (35%).
And remember: International experts have cautioned that early numbers may not tell the whole story. Case fatality rates may come down as officials discover milder cases who don't seek medical care.
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https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-19-20-intl-hnk/index.html
Here's how deadly coronavirus is, according to Chinese health officials
The Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention has calculated a case fatality rate of 2.3% for the novel coronavirus — meaning 2.3% of those known to be infected have died.
Some context: This is higher than influenza, which may hover around 0.1% — but far lower than SARS (9.6%) and MERS (35%).
And remember: International experts have cautioned that early numbers may not tell the whole story. Case fatality rates may come down as officials discover milder cases who don't seek medical care.
I don't put a lot of faith in anything coming from the Chinese government. As far as I'm concerned the only things we know about this virus come from infected westerners.
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I don't put a lot of faith in anything coming from the Chinese government. As far as I'm concerned the only things we know about this virus come from infected westerners.
I agree not to trust China, EVER. They are our enemies. However, I wouldn't assume anything at this point. I doubt we will ever know the truth from the Chinese about how, what, where, and who were the first to be infected.
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Yep. I don't even trust our CDC, much less the Chinese one.
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Yep. I don't even trust our CDC, much less the Chinese one.
These agencies are part of the Deep State, always with a Leftist agenda. Government, and quasi Government agencies of which I include Universities, in general are populated by Democrat supporting Leftists. Their "studies" are often slanted to support that agenda. The studies they can't slant, like the crime statistic studies, they and the Media BURY.
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I love how we incubated this virus on a cruise ship and then scattered those people around the world.
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There is so much we don't know about this virus.
But here's what's interesting. The origin of it. From prelim intel it appears this virus was a lab manufactured virus, i.e. bioweapon.
Look at the effect this virus is having on the Chinese economy. Honestly I don't believe it was intended on release in China, but it was to be used somewhere else in the world. Just think if the virus had an outbreak in the US and spread, what would the effects on the economy here be?
The tariffs and sanctions on the Chinese trade have taken a toll on the Chinese economy. They needed something to try to gain the upper edge.
If this turns out true, then they just had one of the biggest misfires in history.
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There is so much we don't know about this virus.
But here's what's interesting. The origin of it. From prelim intel it appears this virus was a lab manufactured virus, i.e. bioweapon.
Look at the effect this virus is having on the Chinese economy. Honestly I don't believe it was intended on release in China, but it was to be used somewhere else in the world. Just think if the virus had an outbreak in the US and spread, what would the effects on the economy here be?
The tariffs and sanctions on the Chinese trade have taken a toll on the Chinese economy. They needed something to try to gain the upper edge.
If this turns out true, then they just had one of the biggest misfires in history.
If it's true, it is incredibly stupid. I can't believe anyone is dumb enough to use a contagious virus as a bioweapon. If you deploy it to your enemy, there's no way to stop it eventually spreading all over the world. You would have to what... invent a vaccine at the same time and vaccinate your whole country first, plus all your allied friends. Nuts.
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If it's true, it is incredibly stupid. I can't believe anyone is dumb enough to use a contagious virus as a bioweapon. If you deploy it to your enemy, there's no way to stop it eventually spreading all over the world. You would have to what... invent a vaccine at the same time and vaccinate your whole country first, plus all your allied friends. Nuts.
Part of the equation is the producer was counting on the target country to quarantine (first world health) and try to limit exposure within the borders. The producer could have simply closed off it's borders until the outbreak subsided.
Bio Weapons are nasty, and the results can have far flung consequences. It's not nuclear weapons or conventional warfare that people should be concerned about.
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If the rest of the civilized world (the world leadership minus liberal assholes) were to come out with proof that china did this intentionally and it was a big mistake that it hit the chinese, their premier and a bunch of commie bastards would suddenly find themselves unemployed and lined up against walls by their successors.
Liberals would stare at the facts if they came out and lie about them to appease george soros.
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If this is truly Biological Warfare committed by the Communist Chinese, they certainly have to pay for it. I wonder what our Leftist intelligence community knows about this. FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. Maybe they're run by Soros too.
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There is so much we don't know about this virus.
But here's what's interesting. The origin of it. From prelim intel it appears this virus was a lab manufactured virus, i.e. bioweapon.
Got a reputable link for the claim it was manufactured? Or at least one that explains its rationale? Because the entire genome of the virus has been sequenced and published, so any claim can be scrutinized. The genome appears to code for 10 proteins. It is genetically similar to bat coronoaviruses.
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Got a reputable link for the claim it was manufactured? Or at least one that explains its rationale? Because the entire genome of the virus has been sequenced and published, so any claim can be scrutinized. The genome appears to code for 10 proteins. It is genetically similar to bat coronoaviruses.
There's some speculation online, try google sometimes, it's amazing.
However, anything in the public domain is pure speculation at this point. And it's a bit early into the game to have all of the evidence, and with the evidence being contained in China, it will be a while before this unravels.
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Got a reputable link for the claim it was manufactured? Or at least one that explains its rationale? Because the entire genome of the virus has been sequenced and published, so any claim can be scrutinized. The genome appears to code for 10 proteins. It is genetically similar to bat coronoaviruses.
Isn’t it a bit odd that the sickness began in a fish market 300 yards from the wuhan bioweapon lab?
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There's some speculation online, try google sometimes, it's amazing.
However, anything in the public domain is pure speculation at this point. And it's a bit early into the game to have all of the evidence, and with the evidence being contained in China, it will be a while before this unravels.
I had already seen the same claim on various web sites. They are all empty and void of supporting evidence - I was hoping you’d share any you had that actually explained their rationale using genomic information. The virus is available for replication and analysis to western experts. No one with a modicum of knowledge in the field that I can find believes it came from a bioweapons lab.
At this point a claim that the virus originated on Mars is as equally plausible as a bioweapons lab origin, and would have the same amount of supporting evidence. Hmmm - maybe I should post a blog or youtube video with that claim and see how many hits I get!
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I had already seen the same claim on various web sites. They are all empty and void of supporting evidence - I was hoping you’d share any you had that actually explained their rationale using genomic information. The virus is available for replication and analysis to western experts. No one with a modicum of knowledge in the field that I can find believes it came from a bioweapons lab.
At this point a claim that the virus originated on Mars is as equally plausible as a bioweapons lab origin, and would have the same amount of supporting evidence. Hmmm - maybe I should post a blog or youtube video with that claim and see how many hits I get!
I'm not using a blog or youtube channel, or any of your hokey sources.
This is evolving and multifaceted, and has the potential to be politically explosive. And it could be years before any solid evidence comes out in the public domain.
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Isn’t it a bit odd that the sickness began in a fish market 300 yards from the wuhan bioweapon lab?
That lab was highly publicized as intending study dangerous pathogens; a description of it from 2017 is here: https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487 (https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487)
The fish market origin theory is in doubt: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally)
If there is any causal connection at all, it would be due to a containment breach at the lab of a naturally occurring pathogen that the lab was studying. Not due to bioweapons research. Viruses like that make for poor bioweapons.
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Viruses like that make for poor bioweapons.
Right. ::)
So what effect is this virus having on the economy of China, and asia right now?
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There is so much we don't know about this virus.
But here's what's interesting. The origin of it. From prelim intel it appears this virus was a lab manufactured virus, i.e. bioweapon.
Look at the effect this virus is having on the Chinese economy. Honestly I don't believe it was intended on release in China, but it was to be used somewhere else in the world. Just think if the virus had an outbreak in the US and spread, what would the effects on the economy here be?
The tariffs and sanctions on the Chinese trade have taken a toll on the Chinese economy. They needed something to try to gain the upper edge.
If this turns out true, then they just had one of the biggest misfires in history.
Conspiracy nonsense written by idiots for idiots. Coronavirus, SARS, MERS (also coronaviruses) and a bunch of others all came from folks eating bush meat. HIV likely got its start that way as well. The reason these things keep coming out of Chins is there's a big population eating lots of bush meat with little medical infrastructure.
Latest I've seen is the coronaviruses are coming from bats. There isn't a secret laboratory making them, we really don't know enough about viruses to make one de novo. If someone really wanted to weaponize a virus they'd use smallpox. It's highly infective, highly pathogenic and often lethal. Moreover, no one in the West has received a smallpox vaccine in memory, I might be one of the last to get it.
But no one in their right mind would make a bioweapon. They're utterly impossible to control, and are as likely to blow back on their creators as they are to work on the enemy.
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But no one in their right mind would make a bioweapon. ..
There is no shortage of people that would not possibly be accused of being in their right mind.
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But no one in their right mind would make a bioweapon. They're utterly impossible to control, and are as likely to blow back on their creators as they are to work on the enemy.
It's bullshit like that that causes us to ignore you and your points of view.
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It's bullshit like that that causes us to ignore you and your points of view.
As usual, insults instead of actual thoughts, comments, or research.
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It's bullshit like that that causes us to ignore you and your points of view.
Who is “us”? I know it doesn’t include me.
I may not agree with many of Steingar’s views, but in this particular instance I agree that viruses currently are poor candidates for bioweapons. Maybe a Dr. Evil might use one as a threat against the whole world unless he gets one million dollars, but they are otherwise about as effective against an enemy as spitting into the wind.
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I may not agree with many of Steingar’s views, but in this particular instance I agree that viruses currently are poor candidates for bioweapons. Maybe a Dr. Evil might use one as a threat against the whole world unless he gets one million dollars, but they are otherwise about as effective against an enemy as spitting into the wind.
I may not agree with many of Steingar's, OR Jim's views, but in this case, I agree with them. It would be ridiculous for any nation-state to create a potent bio-weapon unless they knew they could control it, which they can't. I can see a scenario, like Jim's Dr. Evil though. I have read several novels where mad scientists thought the cure for all man's problems lied in massive population reduction. But I don't think that's what we have here.
But I do agree with those mad scientists that think there are entirely too many people on the planet.
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Conspiracy nonsense written by idiots for idiots. Coronavirus, SARS, MERS (also coronaviruses) and a bunch of others all came from folks eating bush meat. HIV likely got its start that way as well. The reason these things keep coming out of Chins is there's a big population eating lots of bush meat with little medical infrastructure.
Latest I've seen is the coronaviruses are coming from bats. There isn't a secret laboratory making them, we really don't know enough about viruses to make one de novo. If someone really wanted to weaponize a virus they'd use smallpox. It's highly infective, highly pathogenic and often lethal. Moreover, no one in the West has received a smallpox vaccine in memory, I might be one of the last to get it.
But no one in their right mind would make a bioweapon. They're utterly impossible to control, and are as likely to blow back on their creators as they are to work on the enemy.
So says a half baked college professor living in a little bubble.
Guess the Pentagon and DoD can disband their Bio Warfare research and Counter Bio Warfare Units.
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Liberals ALWAYS make excuses for communists.
It’s just what you folks do.
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So says a half baked college professor living in a little bubble.
Guess the Pentagon and DoD can disband their Bio Warfare research and Counter Bio Warfare Units.
Nixon had the U.S. unilaterally end its offensive bioweapons programs. Only defensive measures are now being researched.
But given current progress in biological science, it seems likely (to me) that bioweapons capable of targeting specific groups sharing some genetic trait could be developed within the next ten years or so, making offensive use a danger. At the moment no research group has shown such ability, otherwise the capability would be used for more immediate pressing needs in medicine.
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Can we totally discount the fact that they have a lab in Wuhan and that is where this all started? Do we not consider that a bit suspect?
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Can we totally discount the fact that they have a lab in Wuhan and that is where this all started? Do we not consider that a bit suspect?
I started to say it just wouldn't make sense for the Chinese to release a virus that could hurt them just as much, or more, than it would hurt their enemies. Then I realized that I have no basic understanding of the Chinese mindset, especially the mindset of the CCP leadership. They may well be willing to sacrifice a few hundred million people as long as it hurts their enemies more. And reducing their own population would actually help them solve a lot of their own problems. That reminds me of Stan's quote (of Maggie) that Socialists would rather the poor were more poor as long as the rich were less rich. The Chinese may well suffer the deaths and suffering of a large percentage of their population as long as other countries suffer more.
Now how's that for tinfoil stuff? The point is I wouldn't put it past the Chinese, not that I actually think that is what happened. The fact is that we just don't know yet.
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I started to say it just wouldn't make sense for the Chinese to release a virus that could hurt them just as much, or more, than it would hurt their enemies. Then I realized that I have no basic understanding of the Chinese mindset, especially the mindset of the CCP leadership. They may well be willing to sacrifice a few hundred million people as long as it hurts their enemies more. And reducing their own population would actually help them solve a lot of their own problems. That reminds me of Stan's quote (of Maggie) that Socialists would rather the poor were more poor as long as the rich were less rich. The Chinese may well suffer the deaths and suffering of a large percentage of their population as long as other countries suffer more.
Now how's that for tinfoil stuff? The point is I wouldn't put it past the Chinese, not that I actually think that is what happened. The fact is that we just don't know yet.
This! Although I agree with Steingar. It’s the bushmeat connection, we know how zoonosis works.
Having said that, I’m always open to new evidence if it comes along, real evidence, not speculation.
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I can see a scenario, like Jim's Dr. Evil though. I have read several novels where mad scientists thought the cure for all man's problems lied in massive population reduction. But I don't think that's what we have here.
But I do agree with those mad scientists that think there are entirely too many people on the planet.
I think that this is the far more likely scenario. Some mad environmentalist creates something that exterminates humanity to "save the world." Not just thin the herd, but wipe out everyone. Not what's happening now, but easily in the future.
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Can we totally discount the fact that they have a lab in Wuhan and that is where this all started? Do we not consider that a bit suspect?
There are research labs all over China, they tend to be associated with Medical Schools. My old boss got recruited to one in Macau. If you have some inside information that this was a "bioweapons" lab I've love to hear it. You usually put military science labs at big military bases. Is there one of those in Wuhan?
Hell, we have BSL3 facilities here. Doesn't mean we're trying to start a fucking plague.
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Can we totally discount the fact that they have a lab in Wuhan and that is where this all started? Do we not consider that a bit suspect?
Of course we can't totally discount it. It is a bit suspect, but IMHO, just a bit. There are other more likely scenarios. I doubt we will know the truth for years, if ever. I think we will get a handle on the Corona Virus sooner than we get the truth out of China.
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There are research labs all over China, they tend to be associated with Medical Schools. My old boss got recruited to one in Macau. If you have some inside information that this was a "bioweapons" lab I've love to hear it. You usually put military science labs at big military bases. Is there one of those in Wuhan?
Hell, we have BSL3 facilities here. Doesn't mean we're trying to start a fucking plague.
You're an idiot when it comes to many things, one is geography. Macau is not the same as mainland China. That would be like saying Hong Kong is China.
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You're an idiot when it comes to many things, one is geography. Macau is not the same as mainland China. That would be like saying Hong Kong is China.
I don't think that takes away from his point. The fact that a lab was near the source of the plague is one of those coincidences that can be just a coincidence, or can mean something sinister, but until we have evidence of the latter, we must assume the former, imo.
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I don't think that takes away from his point. The fact that a lab was near the source of the plague is one of those coincidences that can be just a coincidence, or can mean something sinister, but until we have evidence of the latter, we must assume the former, imo.
I'm just pointing out that Mr Smarter than Everyone Else, a pseudo intellectual who writes like a 5th grader and has minimal understanding of anything outside the campus he resides, is an idiot when it comes to most things, geography being just another example.
And it's incredibly stupid to make a comment that the Chinese only use their labs for research and medical science.
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I'm just pointing out that Mr Smarter than Everyone Else, a pseudo intellectual who writes like a 5th grader and has minimal understanding of anything outside the campus he resides, is an idiot when it comes to most things, geography being just another example.
And it's incredibly stupid to make a comment that the Chinese only use their labs for research and medical science.
But entirely typical of a low information progressive- egomaniac.
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I think he is those things on some subjects like all leftists, just totally deluded about how the economy works. But on the subject of genetic research I suspect Michael might know more than the rest of us. Maybe even the rest of us put together. And I doubt he thinks the Chinese would never attempt bioweapons or use their labs for something nefarious. Just not this bioweapon.
Occam’s razor inclines me to believe the zoonosis theory over the bioweapon theory on this particular bug. Anthrax on the other hand, has already been used as a bioweapon. But this virus... it don’t make sense to me.
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I'm just pointing out that Mr Smarter than Everyone Else, a pseudo intellectual who writes like a 5th grader and has minimal understanding of anything outside the campus he resides, is an idiot when it comes to most things, geography being just another example.
And it's incredibly stupid to make a comment that the Chinese only use their labs for research and medical science.
Dickshit, the point was that there's a fucking lab facility in a place where you wouldn't think there's a lab facility. Obviously way, way over your febrile pointed little head. And by the way idiot, I just Googled Wuhan University, which claims to be one of the most selective an prestigious research universities in all of China. Took all of two seconds, and it never occurred to your to do a simple thing like that.
You see, in the world of intelligent people folks doing top secret things usually do so in top secret places which they don't splash all over the internet. Wuhan is just what I thought. I think I even had a student from there, I know she was from Hubei province. But whatever, don't listen to anyone who says anything that doesn't mesh with your myopic world view. Especially don't listen to them if they've been doing biological research for the last 30 years. You should only listen your little right wing blogs and whatever else, they agree with you and they use nice little worlds in doing so.
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Dickshit, the point was that there's a fucking lab facility in a place where you wouldn't think there's a lab facility. Obviously way, way over your febrile pointed little head. And by the way idiot, I just Googled Wuhan University, which claims to be one of the most selective an prestigious research universities in all of China. Took all of two seconds, and it never occurred to your to do a simple thing like that.
You see, in the world of intelligent people folks doing top secret things usually do so in top secret places which they don't splash all over the internet. Wuhan is just what I thought. I think I even had a student from there, I know she was from Hubei province. But whatever, don't listen to anyone who says anything that doesn't mesh with your myopic world view. Especially don't listen to them if they've been doing biological research for the last 30 years. You should only listen your little right wing blogs and whatever else, they agree with you and they use nice little worlds in doing so.
Wow, you can actually use google. I find that amazing. Did one of your students show that to you?
Biological research? Naw, more likely just sucking the tit at a university to gain tenure. Remember, "Those who can do, and those who can't, teach". If the shoe fits......
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Wow, you can actually use google. I find that amazing. Did one of your students show that to you?
Biological research? Naw, more likely just sucking the tit at a university to gain tenure. Remember, "Those who can do, and those who can't, teach". If the shoe fits......
Yeah, since teaching our future medical professionals and biomedical researchers is such an unimportant task. And I used Google, which is more than I can say for your stunted self. I suppose there aren't any 8 year olds in your neighborhood to show you how.
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Anyone see any parallels with President Trump/liberals interaction and some of the children here?
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Yeah, since teaching our future medical professionals and biomedical researchers is such an unimportant task. And I used Google, which is more than I can say for your stunted self. I suppose there aren't any 8 year olds in your neighborhood to show you how.
Yea, google is interesting.
Such as reading the many reviews of your class, and your antics in the classroom. From those reviews it appears you don't spend much time actually teaching the material. But I'm not surprised.
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Anyone see any parallels with President Trump/liberals interaction and some of the children here?
Feeling Triggered?
Play doe and crayons might be for you...
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Dickshit, ...
Homophobe!
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CDC Warns Against New Virus
https://www.humortimes.com/82413/cdc-warns-against-new-virus/
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Misogynist!
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Can we totally discount the fact that they have a lab in Wuhan and that is where this all started? Do we not consider that a bit suspect?
I’m totally with you on this. Just because we can’t envision it’s offensive use doesn’t make it unreasonable that it was developed for such a purpose.
Mao Zedong killed 45 million of his own people over 4 years. And we don’t think they would take a city and use it as their own Petri dish?
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I don't think that takes away from his point. The fact that a lab was near the source of the plague is one of those coincidences that can be just a coincidence, or can mean something sinister, but until we have evidence of the latter, we must assume the former, imo.
I disagree. We are hypothesizing about the origin of a viral outbreak. Certainly Occum’s razor comes into play when we are talking about this, but would an intentional or even unintentional outbreak of a man-made virus in a city be that much more complicated than a viral outbreak coming from “bushmeat?” I doubt anyone on this board knows what goes on in bioweapons labs, especially those of foreign powers.
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Dickshit, the point was that there's a fucking lab facility in a place where you wouldn't think there's a lab facility. Obviously way, way over your febrile pointed little head. And by the way idiot, I just Googled Wuhan University, which claims to be one of the most selective an prestigious research universities in all of China. Took all of two seconds, and it never occurred to your to do a simple thing like that.
You see, in the world of intelligent people folks doing top secret things usually do so in top secret places which they don't splash all over the internet. Wuhan is just what I thought. I think I even had a student from there, I know she was from Hubei province. But whatever, don't listen to anyone who says anything that doesn't mesh with your myopic world view. Especially don't listen to them if they've been doing biological research for the last 30 years. You should only listen your little right wing blogs and whatever else, they agree with you and they use nice little worlds in doing so.
Hey dipshit. The first nuclear chain reaction occurred in a laboratory beneath the bleachers at the University of Chicago, 2 December 1942.
Was Enrico Fermi a member of the US military? Or did the US military go to where the smart people were, in order to advance research in an area they were keenly interested in?
I saw the Andromeda Strain movie. I suspect not all bioweapon research occurs hundreds of feet below ground at a military base like in that piece of fiction.
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I disagree. We are hypothesizing about the origin of a viral outbreak. Certainly Occum’s razor comes into play when we are talking about this, but would an intentional or even unintentional outbreak of a man-made virus in a city be that much more complicated than a viral outbreak coming from “bushmeat?” I doubt anyone on this board knows what goes on in bioweapons labs, especially those of foreign powers.
Forget bioweapons labs. Regular ordinary labs are creating weaponizable viruses. This has happened at least once that we know of, and probably a few more times we don't know of. The "bushmeat connection" has happened countless thousands of times, and always will. For any one new virus we don't know the origin of, which is the more likely just based on statistics?
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Annnnnd look what just broke:
https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/
What this article is ignoring is the steps they’re taking to contain a possible breach is nothing new, and this is a normal prophylactic reaction just in case the virus came from the lab. There’s still no evidence it did.
PS: although hearing that they sell the lab animals to the food market is a whole new level of disgusting. I didn’t think the Chinese eating habits could get any worse.
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PS: although hearing that they sell the lab animals to the food market is a whole new level of disgusting. I didn’t think the Chinese eating habits could get any worse.
Well, the Chinese restaurants here in the U.S. have problems with feral cats around their dumpsters out back. Then they don't. So..........
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Head over to China and walk around the markets......one would be surprised what’s for sale.
And restaurants like to post signs out front with pictures of what’s being served. Again, not for the faint of heart.
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Yea, google is interesting.
Such as reading the many reviews of your class, and your antics in the classroom. From those reviews it appears you don't spend much time actually teaching the material. But I'm not surprised.
You don’t know a fucking thing about education. Yeah, I don’t spend my whole lecture lecturing. Gets boring. So I use a little creativity to figure out activities that are hopefully not boring (they don’t seem to be). I see eyes glaze over I tell a joke. But that’s all bad to you because you think you know everything about everything and, well, Trump!
You really think that much of yourself. Teach three point gene mapping to a class of 19 year olds. I dare you. Or maybe you should just STFU about things you haven’t a clue about. Not that abject ignorance would ever stop a blowhard like you.
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You don’t know a fucking thing about education. Yeah, I don’t spend my whole lecture lecturing. Gets boring. So I use a little creativity to figure out activities that are hopefully not boring (they don’t seem to be). I see eyes glaze over I tell a joke. But that’s all bad to you because you think you know everything about everything and, well, Trump!
You really think that much of yourself. Teach three point gene mapping to a class of 19 year olds. I dare you. Or maybe you should just STFU about things you haven’t a clue about. Not that abject ignorance would ever stop a blowhard like you.
Apparently from all of the online class reviews, you don’t know anything about teaching. Seems you can’t even focus on the material you teach, and then it was mentioned you take great delight in singling our students and degrading them in front of everyone.
“Those who can, do. And those who can’t, teach”. Rather fitting wouldn’t you say?
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Let's be fair to Michael. He's a pilot, he's invested in aviation like the rest of us. He puts his ass on the line, like we all do, every time he gets into his Mooney.
He knows more about this subject than we do, and I have an undergrad Biology degree, most of which I have flushed. However, yes, his politics sway him, but I would take a PORTION of his analysis as valid.
I can't believe I am even saying this since he has been a total DOUCHE to me on this and other forums. But I will get him back by stuffing him in a locker at the next Osh Kosh during his effing Origami course. LOL! Yes Michael, just like Junior High!
I will take his analysis on this subject as valid. I take everyone’s analysis as valid if my own critical thinking skills finds it valid. I don’t follow any particular person or party. I decide subject by subject. Michael is correct on some things imo. Obviously I think the rest of you are correct on other things.
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Apparently from all of the online class reviews, you don’t know anything about teaching. Seems you can’t even focus on the material you teach, and then it was mentioned you take great delight in singling our students and degrading them in front of everyone.
“Those who can, do. And those who can’t, teach”. Rather fitting wouldn’t you say?
What precisely is the point of your character assassination? If you succeed, do you think it would prove anything with regard to the subject of this thread? Would it change the veracity of any speculations?
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You don’t know a fucking thing about education. Yeah, I don’t spend my whole lecture lecturing. Gets boring. So I use a little creativity to figure out activities that are hopefully not boring (they don’t seem to be). I see eyes glaze over I tell a joke. But that’s all bad to you because you think you know everything about everything and, well, Trump!
You really think that much of yourself. Teach three point gene mapping to a class of 19 year olds. I dare you. Or maybe you should just STFU about things you haven’t a clue about. Not that abject ignorance would ever stop a blowhard like you.
Listen dope,
Your egotistical ranting is nothing but triggered bullshit and we all know it.
We’ve known it for years and yet you never seem to mature enough to develop self awareness sufficient to see thru your fog of ego, ignorance and the re-education from the communists affecting your chosen field of work.
Before you blather on about how righteous and important you are, try a face to face confrontation with the real,world, outside of the closed, incestuous, faculty lounge lizards.
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Oh well.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-isTzPHGwtF4/Uctdi4ffNMI/AAAAAAAANhU/p-8SXbAMuGg/s1600/George-Costanza.gif)
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https://www.activistpost.com/2020/02/podcast-coronavirus-coincidences-military-world-games-with-spiro-skouras.html
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https://www.activistpost.com/2020/02/podcast-coronavirus-coincidences-military-world-games-with-spiro-skouras.html
I only listened to the first few minutes because I have to go somewhere but if I understand the point, it’s suspicious that there was a pandemic exercise just a few weeks before the corona virus outbreak. I assume they will proceed to connect a bunch of dots allegedly showing this somehow indicates the virus was manmade? And they knew about it?
If I’m wrong I’ll listen to the rest later. But if that’s what they’re saying, then correlation does not equal causation. And, we do pandemic exercises all the time. We even have a zombiepocalapse model developed by our own military several years ago.
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There are research labs all over China, they tend to be associated with Medical Schools. My old boss got recruited to one in Macau. If you have some inside information that this was a "bioweapons" lab I've love to hear it. You usually put military science labs at big military bases. Is there one of those in Wuhan?
Hell, we have BSL3 facilities here. Doesn't mean we're trying to start a fucking plague.
According to the article posted by Rush, you are absolutely incorrect on this.
“What’s more, the People’s Liberation Army’s top expert in biological warfare, a Maj. Gen. Chen Wei, was dispatched to Wuhan at the end of January to help with the effort to contain the outbreak.
“According to the PLA Daily, Gen. Chen has been researching coronaviruses since the SARS outbreak of 2003, as well as Ebola and anthrax. This would not be her first trip to the Wuhan Institute of Virology either, since it is one of only two bioweapons research labs in all of China.”
As I said in post #96, the military go where the smart people are, which is why the first nuclear chain reaction occurred in 1942 in a lab under the stands at the University of Chicago.
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According to the article posted by Rush, you are absolutely incorrect on this.
“What’s more, the People’s Liberation Army’s top expert in biological warfare, a Maj. Gen. Chen Wei, was dispatched to Wuhan at the end of January to help with the effort to contain the outbreak.
“According to the PLA Daily, Gen. Chen has been researching coronaviruses since the SARS outbreak of 2003, as well as Ebola and anthrax. This would not be her first trip to the Wuhan Institute of Virology either, since it is one of only two bioweapons research labs in all of China.”
As I said in post #96, the military go where the smart people are, which is why the first nuclear chain reaction occurred in 1942 in a lab under the stands at the University of Chicago.
There are tons of coronaviruses and we research them all the time, basically in an effort to find a cure for the common cold. And when a country has “bioweapons experts”, it is just as likely that their focus is on defense from same, not creation of. Naturally they would deploy that expert.
Could China be actively trying to create a bioweapon? Absolutely. We did! The U.S bioweapons program was started by a Democrat president incidentally and ended by a Republican one, but I digress. The consensus among the military and anyone with a lick of common sense is that trying to use pathogens as weapons is an inferior way to wage war. Far better to use chemical weapons, which aren’t living and can’t mutate and blow back on you. Nevertheless some wacko lunatic may do so (NK? Iran?) and so all developed nations, including China, have bioweapons programs to study how to defend against, not create, same. Therefore the existence and deployment of bioweapons experts in this crisis means exactly nothing, but I see the fake news media is whipping up conclusions not supported by facts and evidence, and the only thing I’m surprised by at this point is that they haven’t yet managed to make it all Trump’s fault.
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“What’s more, the People’s Liberation Army’s top expert in biological warfare, a Maj. Gen. Chen Wei, was dispatched to Wuhan at the end of January to help with the effort to contain the outbreak.
The top general in China's CDC Wo We Die said there's nothing to worry about. This was echoed by We Tu Dum who is in charge of Communist food supply.
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The top general in China's CDC Wo We Die said there's nothing to worry about. This was echoed by We Tu Dum who is in charge of Communist food supply.
Reportedly, China's top infectious disease specialist, (the "Steingar" of their Office of Higher Education), Won Hung Lo, said "Rotsa Ruck" which is actually Japanese, so lots of confusion over there.
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There are tons of coronaviruses and we research them all the time, basically in an effort to find a cure for the common cold. And when a country has “bioweapons experts”, it is just as likely that their focus is on defense from same, not creation of. Naturally they would deploy that expert.
Could China be actively trying to create a bioweapon? Absolutely. We did! The U.S bioweapons program was started by a Democrat president incidentally and ended by a Republican one, but I digress. The consensus among the military and anyone with a lick of common sense is that trying to use pathogens as weapons is an inferior way to wage war. Far better to use chemical weapons, which aren’t living and can’t mutate and blow back on you. Nevertheless some wacko lunatic may do so (NK? Iran?) and so all developed nations, including China, have bioweapons programs to study how to defend against, not create, same. Therefore the existence and deployment of bioweapons experts in this crisis means exactly nothing, but I see the fake news media is whipping up conclusions not supported by facts and evidence, and the only thing I’m surprised by at this point is that they haven’t yet managed to make it all Trump’s fault.
What you’re saying is probably correct. That wasn’t my point. Steingar was dismissing EppyGA’s very good question by dismissing with derision the idea that a bioweapons lab couldn’t possibly be at a university vs a military base.
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What you’re saying is probably correct. That wasn’t my point. Steingar was dismissing EppyGA’s very good question by dismissing with derision the idea that a bioweapons lab couldn’t possibly be at a university vs a military base.
Oh okay, I see your point.
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https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/ (https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/)
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https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/ (https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/)
Well, well. Eppy's the best. Interesting.
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https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/ (https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/)
Rush already posted that link in reply #97.
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The Chinese are working on vaccines and whatever else that can stem the spread of the virus, which is wreaking hell on their business model. So they have people working on it in laboratories. Perhaps their sterile technique isn't quite as good as ours, I dunno, but I'll bet someone somewhere infected themselves by accident and started a new outbreak. Seems pretty reasonable given the latency of the stuff. First Ebola outbreak some medical folks got the virus that way.
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The Chinese are working on vaccines and whatever else that can stem the spread of the virus, which is wreaking hell on their business model. So they have people working on it in laboratories. Perhaps their sterile technique isn't quite as good as ours, I dunno, but I'll bet someone somewhere infected themselves by accident and started a new outbreak. Seems pretty reasonable given the latency of the stuff. First Ebola outbreak some medical folks got the virus that way.
I heard it has officially been declared a pandemic. Italy really screwed up by not quarantining people flying home from China.
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Not a good day to check your 401k
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https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/02/22/beijing-admits-coronavirus-didnt-start-in-wuhan-food-market-senator-cotton-tweets-vindication/
The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) now admits to an internal report showing the Coronavirus did not originate from the Huanan food market as they initially stated.
Senator Tom Cotton has previously questioned the origination claim because there is a level-4 biological weapons lab in Wuhan, China, where the Huanan market is located.
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Rush (Limbaugh, not our Raquel Welsh look-a-like Rush) just mentioned “Have you noticed how the Hong Kong protests had disappeared now that this Coronavirus is out there?”
What better way for an authoritarian government to control its populace.
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Rush (Limbaugh, not our Raquel Welsh look-a-like Rush) just mentioned “Have you noticed how the Hong Kong protests had disappeared now that this Coronavirus is out there?”
What better way for an authoritarian government to control its populace.
Rush made me feel a lot better. He thinks the media is blowing it all out of proportion to damage Trump this year. Glenn Beck this morning was making it sound like we are all doomed. (Not to die, but to end up with no money, no food, no cash etc.)
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Rush made me feel a lot better. He thinks the media is blowing it all out of proportion to damage Trump this year. Glenn Beck this morning was making it sound like we are all doomed. (Not to die, but to end up with no money, no food, no cash etc.)
Beck is a full blown nutcase.
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Rush made me feel a lot better. He thinks the media is blowing it all out of proportion to damage Trump this year. Glenn Beck this morning was making it sound like we are all doomed. (Not to die, but to end up with no money, no food, no cash etc.)
My brother and sister-in-law are devotees of Glenn Beck. I can’t take much of him. He’s too melodramatic, too dark, and overly confident in his analysis. Sounds like you heard exactly why I tune him out.
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Beck is a full blown nutcase.
Am I misremembering or did Beck hate Donald Trump before the 2016 election?
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Am I misremembering or did Beck hate Donald Trump before the 2016 election?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/us/politics/glenn-beck-says-opposing-trump-is-moral-ethical-even-if-it-means-clinton-wins.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/05/04/donald-trump-glenn-beck-cruz/83935556/
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300352-glenn-beck-i-considered-voting-for-hillary
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I'm pretty sure Beck admitted he was wrong about Trump and apologized. I used to like him when he was on CNN's Headline News Channel and on radio a long time ago. When he went to Fox News he started getting whacky.
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I'm pretty sure Beck admitted he was wrong about Trump and apologized. I used to like him when he was on CNN's Headline News Channel and on radio a long time ago. When he went to Fox News he started getting whacky.
Beck is a charlatan. His business dealings are further proof, as most everything he touches turns to shit. And as the years go by, he just gets nuttier than ever.
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I doubt he is a charlatan as he has kept things together this long. He did upset a lot of people over his dislike of Trump and that cost him a lot of viewers, something that has caused financial issues for him.
He does seem pretty sure of his analysis a lot of times, but then again he puts a lot of effort into researching it, so he's probably correct more often than others.
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I base my charlatan comment on his activity pre 2016, as well as since.
He's a business disaster, and he creates his persona based upon what he feels will get him followers, which in term equals more income for his business enterprises.
I tuned him out years ago.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/us/politics/glenn-beck-says-opposing-trump-is-moral-ethical-even-if-it-means-clinton-wins.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/05/04/donald-trump-glenn-beck-cruz/83935556/
......
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300352-glenn-beck-i-considered-voting-for-hillary
So I remembered right. Wow that YouTube interview, boy did he totally miss the boat. He completely missed that the “mood” of the country was about throwing out the swamp, the political elite on both sides of the aisle. Poor Ted Cruz might be innocent and virtuous and competent but he is not an outsider, he’s a politician. In both the Republican primary and the general election, the people were summarily rejecting the status quo. Even if it meant taking a chance on a possibly dangerous man. That’s how fed up the people are with the federal government.
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So I remembered right. Wow that YouTube interview, boy did he totally miss the boat. He completely missed that the “mood” of the country was about throwing out the swamp, the political elite on both sides of the aisle. Poor Ted Cruz might be innocent and virtuous and competent but he is not an outsider, he’s a politician. In both the Republican primary and the general election, the people were summarily rejecting the status quo. Even if it meant taking a chance on a possibly dangerous man. That’s how fed up the people are with the federal government.
Yep! Well said Raquel!
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https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/02/22/beijing-admits-coronavirus-didnt-start-in-wuhan-food-market-senator-cotton-tweets-vindication/
More BS, unsurprising it came from you. A BSL-4 facility simply means that there are infectious biological agents. I worked in one once. Shower out, PPE use mandatory, stuff like that. I am unsurprised Wuhan has such facilities, I think we get up to BSL-3 here. Conservatives are mostly too stupid to know the difference. They'd rather run with a good story than do the least little research. That'd require them to learn to read.
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More BS, unsurprising it came from you. A BSL-4 facility simply means that there are infectious biological agents. I worked in one once. Shower out, PPE use mandatory, stuff like that. I am unsurprised Wuhan has such facilities, I think we get up to BSL-3 here. Conservatives are mostly too stupid to know the difference. They'd rather run with a good story than do the least little research. That'd require them to learn to read.
So tell us what is untrue in the article cited. And please cite the correct references.
And it's also been discovered that your Chinese counterparts were taking the infected research animals, once they were done with them, to the local fresh market and selling them for a little extra cash.
Are you going to defend that as well?
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So tell us what is untrue in the article cited. And please cite the correct references.
If I may interrupt - the conservativetreehouse.com article states “there is a level-4 biological weapons lab in Wuhan, China, where the Huanan market is located.” There is no supporting evidence supplied that indicates it is a weapons lab. It was up to the claimant to provide proof of such a claim, and none exists there or anywhere obvious to me. Merely repeated naked claims.
And it's also been discovered that your Chinese counterparts were taking the infected research animals, once they were done with them, to the local fresh market and selling them for a little extra cash.
Are you going to defend that as well?
The researchers surmised that a person who was infected outside the market brought their infection to others at the market. It was human-to-human transmission. Meaning the animals in the market were not a source or a vector, making any claims moot about transmission from the biolab to market animals to humans. Though if there were reliable evidence that infected lab animals were being sold, that would be useful to know for other reasons. Though I don’t know of anything other than unsourced claims about that last assertion.
The author of that article doesn’t seem to have grasped the meaning of the researcher’s results.
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If I may interrupt - the conservativetreehouse.com article states “there is a level-4 biological weapons lab in Wuhan, China, where the Huanan market is located.” There is no supporting evidence supplied that indicates it is a weapons lab. It was up to the claimant to provide proof of such a claim, and none exists there or anywhere obvious to me. Merely repeated naked claims.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab-2020-02-22
And this one is located in the Chinese city of Wuhan, which, of course, is the epicenter of the epidemic.
That’s right. China’s only Level 4 microbiology lab equipped to handle deadly coronaviruses, called the National Biosafety Laboratory, is part of the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
What’s more, the People’s Liberation Army’s top expert in biological warfare, Maj. Gen. Chen Wei, was dispatched to Wuhan at the end of January to help with the effort to contain the outbreak.
According to the PLA Daily, Chen has been researching coronaviruses since the SARS outbreak of 2003, as well as Ebola and anthrax. This would not be her first trip to the Wuhan Institute of Virology either, since it is one of only two bioweapons research labs in all of China.
This has been reported in many different sources.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/24/virus-hit-wuhan-has-two-laboratories-linked-chines/
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So tell us what is untrue in the article cited. And please cite the correct references.
Do your own fucking research shithead. I told you exactly what was wrong with it already.
And it's also been discovered that your Chinese counterparts were taking the infected research animals, once they were done with them, to the local fresh market and selling them for a little extra cash.
Are you going to defend that as well?
Here in the US that is utterly verboten. We cancelled a vet's ability to do research here for just that reason, and there was nothing whatsoever wrong with the animal in question other than it came from a research lab. That said, this is China, and they have their own rules, however stupid they may be. I always thought they were more or less in line wth ours, but I'm not doing any work there so I really can't confirm it. Given that this particular coronavirus was utterly unknown before this outbreak, I have the strong suspicion it cam from bush meat, just like SARS, MERS, Ebola and HIV. Indeed practically all human viruses came from animals. Measles is a cow virus, most pox viruses come from poultry, and the list goes on. We humans are too recent on the evolutionary scene to have evolved many viruses of our own, but animals seem to be doing good job of it for us.
I promise you no researcher on the planet could do a better job of it than Ma Nature. Moreover, an engineered virus will leave footprints visible to any competent geneticist. This is just utter nonsense that you believe because
1. you think for some reason or anther that you know everything
2. you've decided that anyone who believes anything you don't must be wrong and utterly devoid of cognition
3. you will happily attack and outshout anyone who disagrees with you until they either stop or go away
Number 3 explains why this board is so utterly dead, though I have to admit you had copious assistance.
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Do your own fucking research shithead. I told you exactly what was wrong with it already.
Ah, here we go again. Wash, rinse, repeat. At least you are consistent. ::)
2 or 3 more post, you will hurl out a whole host of vulgarities and claim you are never coming back. ;D
Here in the US that is utterly verboten. We cancelled a vet's ability to do research here for just that reason, and there was nothing whatsoever wrong with the animal in question other than it came from a research lab. That said, this is China, and they have their own rules, however stupid they may be. I always thought they were more or less in line wth ours, but I'm not doing any work there so I really can't confirm it. Given that this particular coronavirus was utterly unknown before this outbreak, I have the strong suspicion it cam from bush meat, just like SARS, MERS, Ebola and HIV. Indeed practically all human viruses came from animals. Measles is a cow virus, most pox viruses come from poultry, and the list goes on. We humans are too recent on the evolutionary scene to have evolved many viruses of our own, but animals seem to be doing good job of it for us.
I promise you no researcher on the planet could do a better job of it than Ma Nature. Moreover, an engineered virus will leave footprints visible to any competent geneticist. This is just utter nonsense that you believe because
1. you think for some reason or anther that you know everything
2. you've decided that anyone who believes anything you don't must be wrong and utterly devoid of cognition
3. you will happily attack and outshout anyone who disagrees with you until they either stop or go away
Fact. You absolutely hate being questioned, and your demeanor is you are always perceived as being correct while everyone else is just plain ignorant.
This is not your classroom where you are in complete control and can bully students at will (again, gathered from comments from your students).
Number 3 explains why this board is so utterly dead, though I have to admit you had copious assistance.
You constantly demean this forum, but yet you take great joy in trolling here. There are many liberal forums out there where even you would come across as somewhat intelligent, but for some reason you keep coming here to do a battle of wits, albeit unarmed.
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Fact. You absolutely hate being questioned, and your demeanor is you are always perceived as being correct while everyone else is just plain ignorant.
Because most of you are utterly ignorant, and post as facts mistruths and rumors like the one in question. You then attack anyone with the temerity to point out your utter lack of knowledge.
This is not your classroom where you are in complete control and can bully students at will (again, gathered from comments from your students).
How do you know any of those people were my students?
You constantly demean this forum, but yet you take great joy in trolling here. There are many liberal forums out there where even you would come across as somewhat intelligent, but for some reason you keep coming here to do a battle of wits, albeit unarmed.
The only aspect of this forum I've demeaned is it's lack of participants, and I am far from alone in that. I simply point out why this site has so few participants, and I'm not alone in that opinion either. But again, it differs from your myopic world view and thus has to be incorrect and worthy of derision. The saddest thing is the AOPA forums just imploded and none of them migrated to this site. Gee, I wonder why?
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Because most of you are utterly ignorant, and post as facts mistruths and rumors like the one in question. You then attack anyone with the temerity to point out your utter lack of knowledge.
How do you know any of those people were my students?
The only aspect of this forum I've demeaned is it's lack of participants, and I am far from alone in that. I simply point out why this site has so few participants, and I'm not alone in that opinion either. But again, it differs from your myopic world view and thus has to be incorrect and worthy of derision. The saddest thing is the AOPA forums just imploded and none of them migrated to this site. Gee, I wonder why?
Thanks for proving my points.
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Thanks for proving my points.
And I will repeat, how do you know that any of these "reviews" you've read about me (which by the way is really, really creepy) were posted by my students. You read them, apparently they said something bad, and you left it at that. Since they reinforced your view you didn't think critically about them at all, which is how you handle everything you see. If it supports your view it must be true, and if it doesn't it must be false. No critical thinking at all.
When anyone calls you on this you insist they do the research you were too lazy to do for yourself, and then abuse them for disagreeing with you.
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And I will repeat, how do you know that any of these "reviews" you've read about me (which by the way is really, really creepy) were posted by my students. You read them, apparently they said something bad, and you left it at that. Since they reinforced your view you didn't think critically about them at all, which is how you handle everything you see. If it supports your view it must be true, and if it doesn't it must be false. No critical thinking at all.
When anyone calls you on this you insist they do the research you were too lazy to do for yourself, and then abuse them for disagreeing with you.
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/show-us-where-e5ad4a.jpg)
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Do your own fucking research shithead. I told you exactly what was wrong with it already.
Here in the US that is utterly verboten. We cancelled a vet's ability to do research here for just that reason, and there was nothing whatsoever wrong with the animal in question other than it came from a research lab. That said, this is China, and they have their own rules, however stupid they may be. I always thought they were more or less in line wth ours, but I'm not doing any work there so I really can't confirm it.
My understanding from what I read is that's correct, their rules are in line with ours, however their enforcement is not. That would jive with what my husband found when he traveled there on business; they are good at claiming standards, but terrible at actual compliance.
Given that this particular coronavirus was utterly unknown before this outbreak, I have the strong suspicion it cam from bush meat, just like SARS, MERS, Ebola and HIV. Indeed practically all human viruses came from animals. Measles is a cow virus, most pox viruses come from poultry, and the list goes on. We humans are too recent on the evolutionary scene to have evolved many viruses of our own, but animals seem to be doing good job of it for us.
I promise you no researcher on the planet could do a better job of it than Ma Nature. Moreover, an engineered virus will leave footprints visible to any competent geneticist.
All of this has been my understanding too.
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My understanding from what I read is that's correct, their rules are in line with ours, however their enforcement is not. That would jive with what my husband found when he traveled there on business; they are good at claiming standards, but terrible at actual compliance.
/\/\/\/\
This.
Chinese culture. No problem, we'll just plagiarize the manuals we stole from the US. However, we won't bother to follow them.
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I've been thinking about this today and something is really bothering me a lot.
It's been established now that the death rate of this thing is about 2%. No worse than the flu.
WHY are we quarantining? Why is this thing being treated like a deadly plague with a high death rate? THAT is what is going to damage everything, not the disease itself. The reaction is what's hurting China's businesses and stopping shipments around the world and knocking down the stock market, etc.
Why don't we all just go about our normal business, let the thing spread around the world and kill 2% of people who get it, just like every other flu, but continue our trade and keep our businesses open and our economy roaring. If this causes a collapse of the global economy or simply a shortage of antibiotics, we could have many more times the deaths caused by the economic and trade disaster than the virus itself.
Whether it came from bushmeat, or the Wuhan lab created it doesn't matter, either way, it's just a simple flu, and not even one that kills young people like the 1918 version. It suddenly struck me that the world's reaction is insane, it's like shooting our own foot off with a .357 magnum because there's a fly sitting on our foot.
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My understanding from what I read is that's correct, their rules are in line with ours, however their enforcement is not. That would jive with what my husband found when he traveled there on business; they are good at claiming standards, but terrible at actual compliance.
That very well could be. Again, I haven't been there and everything I hear is secondhand.
All of this has been my understanding too.
Nearly impossible to hide this sort of tampering. No one is smart enough to make virus or even a viral protein de novo. It is possible that someone could try and recombine a virus, say a coat protein from one virus and a polymerase from another, for example. But those genes have to come from somewhere, and it'll be pretty obvious where once the viral genome has been sequenced, which it has. It is clearly a naturally occurring variant of coronavirus. It is possible that a laboratory could have cultured it and released it into a population, but highly doubtful, since the act would have exposed the researchers themselves and their families to the virus, something no one would do. It is possible that it "escaped" a laboratory setting, but again this is an unpublished virus. I find it hard to believe that a virus escaped containment before any data could be published about it. Like I said, COVID-19 was unknown to science prior to the epidemic.
Occam's razor suggests that the virus originated in bush meat just like every other emerging virus of the last century. But there are those like Lucifer who are hell-bent on seeing Chinese malefaction. The Chinese are no doubt up to lots of unsavory deeds, I just strongly doubt this is one of them.
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I've been thinking about this today and something is really bothering me a lot.
It's been established now that the death rate of this thing is about 2%. No worse than the flu.
WHY are we quarantining? Why is this thing being treated like a deadly plague with a high death rate? THAT is what is going to damage everything, not the disease itself. The reaction is what's hurting China's businesses and stopping shipments around the world and knocking down the stock market, etc.
Why don't we all just go about our normal business, let the thing spread around the world and kill 2% of people who get it, just like every other flu, but continue our trade and keep our businesses open and our economy roaring. If this causes a collapse of the global economy or simply a shortage of antibiotics, we could have many more times the deaths caused by the economic and trade disaster than the virus itself.
Whether it came from bushmeat, or the Wuhan lab created it doesn't matter, either way, it's just a simple flu, and not even one that kills young people like the 1918 version. It suddenly struck me that the world's reaction is insane, it's like shooting our own foot off with a .357 magnum because there's a fly sitting on our foot.
I suspect the reaction is due to the media coverage of the outbreak and resulting hysteria.
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I suspect the reaction is due to the media coverage of the outbreak and resulting hysteria.
I think you are exactly correct.
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That very well could be. Again, I haven't been there and everything I hear is secondhand.
I've spent considerable time in Asia through out my life. I'm well aware of how the Chinese operate.
But there are those like Lucifer who are hell-bent on seeing Chinese malefaction. The Chinese are no doubt up to lots of unsavory deeds, I just strongly doubt this is one of them.
Unsavory doesn't begin to describe a lot of what the Chinese are up too. But then again, the liberal mindset is everything is "Russia!"
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I suspect the reaction is due to the media coverage of the outbreak and resulting hysteria.
I think you are exactly correct.
Let's think about this for just a moment. What would the desired effect of the media be on the outbreak? Has anyone been paying attention to the financial markets during this?
And a declining financial market, possibly a recession, what potential effect would it have here in the US later this year, and who would benefit from this?
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That very well could be. Again, I haven't been there and everything I hear is secondhand.
Well technically what I hear from my husband is second hand too.
Nearly impossible to hide this sort of tampering. No one is smart enough to make virus or even a viral protein de novo. It is possible that someone could try and recombine a virus, say a coat protein from one virus and a polymerase from another, for example. But those genes have to come from somewhere, and it'll be pretty obvious where once the viral genome has been sequenced, which it has. It is clearly a naturally occurring variant of coronavirus. It is possible that a laboratory could have cultured it and released it into a population, but highly doubtful, since the act would have exposed the researchers themselves and their families to the virus, something no one would do. It is possible that it "escaped" a laboratory setting, but again this is an unpublished virus. I find it hard to believe that a virus escaped containment before any data could be published about it. Like I said, COVID-19 was unknown to science prior to the epidemic.
Occam's razor suggests that the virus originated in bush meat just like every other emerging virus of the last century. But there are those like Lucifer who are hell-bent on seeing Chinese malefaction. The Chinese are no doubt up to lots of unsavory deeds, I just strongly doubt this is one of them.
That's what I think too, IF it came from the lab, then they were studying it, they didn't create it. I suppose it's possible they simply didn't make publications available.
One of the "suspicious" pieces of "evidence" that this is a maliciously created bioweapon is that there was a Chinese researcher at a university in NC studying something or other related. But Chinese researchers are here all the time doing actual legitimate work. I myself am a subject in a CDC study involving a Chinese collaborator. Are there Chinese operatives in the U.S. trying to steal stuff or with hostile intent? I'm sure, but I don't think most of them are.
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Are there Chinese operatives in the U.S. trying to steal stuff or with hostile intent? I'm sure, but I don't think most of them are.
Sorry, I don't trust them. And the problem is you don't know who to trust, or not trust when it comes to the Chinese.
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Let's think about this for just a moment. What would the desired effect of the media be on the outbreak? Has anyone been paying attention to the financial markets during this?
And a declining financial market, possibly a recession, what potential effect would it have here in the US later this year, and who would benefit from this?
YES. We are down $20,000 just in one day. And I heard clips from mainstream media how they are absolutely salivating over the scenario that our economy will be wrecked long about... November. And how this could destroy Donald Trump. Mainstream media is hoping this thing ruins the world to listen to them, because it might make Trump lose the election.
But I stop short of thinking it's all a conspiracy between the Democrats and the mainstream media, because China itself and most other countries are also going bonkers with the quarantining and hysteria. Could be a world wide conspiracy to get rid of Trump I suppose.... ;)
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Sorry, I don't trust them. And the problem is you don't know who to trust, or not trust when it comes to the Chinese.
Agree. I keep an open mind. I'm still open to hearing real evidence that the Chinese purposely made this thing and released it as a plot to take over the world.
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YES. We are down $20,000 just in one day. And I heard clips from mainstream media how they are absolutely salivating over the scenario that our economy will be wrecked long about... November. And how this could destroy Donald Trump. Mainstream media is hoping this thing ruins the world to listen to them, because it might make Trump lose the election.
But I stop short of thinking it's all a conspiracy between the Democrats and the mainstream media, because China itself and most other countries are also going bonkers with the quarantining and hysteria. Could be a world wide conspiracy to get rid of Trump I suppose.... ;)
The Chinese economy is tanking. The trade sanctions have taken a toll on them, and now they have been forced to the table to negotiate fair trade. For 20+ years they had their way, manipulated currency and were selling the world their crap on their terms. Now China is facing a steep decline, and desperately want to go back to pre 2016 days.
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Agree. I keep an open mind. I'm still open to hearing real evidence that the Chinese purposely made this thing and released it as a plot to take over the world.
I don't see a plot to "take over the world". I do however, see an inept Chinese lab playing around with some really nasty crap and it blew up in their face.
Why were they experimenting with this in a bioweapons lab? Gotta look at the bigger picture.
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I don't see a plot to "take over the world". I do however, see an inept Chinese lab playing around with some really nasty crap and it blew up in their face.
Certainly possible.
Why were they experimenting with this in a bioweapons lab? Gotta look at the bigger picture.
Is it a bioweapons lab? Has that been established? Or is it a regular lab that researches how to defend against bioweapons as one of many missions?
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Is it a bioweapons lab? Has that been established? Or is it a regular lab that researches how to defend against bioweapons as one of many missions?
Unfortunately, bioweapons labs don't have signs out front, or web pages that detail their work on developing bioweapons. This type of work is largely covert, and for obvious reasons.
And I'm willing to bet that the bioweapons part will be promptly shut down in Wuhan, and relocated, quietly.
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Let's think about this for just a moment. What would the desired effect of the media be on the outbreak? Has anyone been paying attention to the financial markets during this?
Anyone with money in the market has been paying very close attention and many have wondered when it would take a nose dive. Our retirement fund is down $30k in just two days. Fortunately for us about 60% of our investments are in bond funds and cash equivalents (both because we are planning to buy a house with a cash offer and also enough cash for a couple years expenses without having to sell equities in any market downturn.)
And a declining financial market, possibly a recession, what potential effect would it have here in the US later this year, and who would benefit from this?
Trump administration has an obvious culprit it can point to for any hit to the economy. I don’t see undecided people who might have voted for Trump opting to vote for the Democratic candidate because of a Black Swan event that no one could control. The fact that a centrally planned system like China could not contain and control the virus could be used to prove that point.
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YES. We are down $20,000 just in one day. And I heard clips from mainstream media how they are absolutely salivating over the scenario that our economy will be wrecked long about... November. And how this could destroy Donald Trump. Mainstream media is hoping this thing ruins the world to listen to them, because it might make Trump lose the election.
But I stop short of thinking it's all a conspiracy between the Democrats and the mainstream media, because China itself and most other countries are also going bonkers with the quarantining and hysteria. Could be a world wide conspiracy to get rid of Trump I suppose.... ;)
Do you think the Chinese think that they are better off with, or without, Donald Trump in office?
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Do you think the Chinese think that they are better off with, or without, Donald Trump in office?
What are you saying? That it is a conspiracy by the Chinese to get rid of Trump?
To answer your question, the Chinese are unfathomable to me. I don't know what they think about anything but yes you would think they would have preferred Trump not to have been elected.
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What are you saying? That it is a conspiracy by the Chinese to get rid of Trump?
To answer your question, the Chinese are unfathomable to me. I don't know what they think about anything but yes you would think they would have preferred Trump not to have been elected.
I have no idea, but I am certain that geopolitical tensions between China and the US are strained with Trump’s trade tariffs, his change from a “One China” policy to a relationship with Taiwan, and his aggressive position against China’s manufactured islands in the South China Sea.
If a virus kills Americans, damages the US’ economy, or damages the world economy, it will put Trump’s re-election at risk. No doubt any of the democrat competitors would eliminate tariffs, and soften their stance against Chinese aggression. Why not try it?
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I have no idea, but I am certain that geopolitical tensions between China and the US are strained with Trump’s trade tariffs, his change from a “One China” policy to a relationship with Taiwan, and his aggressive position against China’s manufactured islands in the South China Sea.
If a virus kills Americans, damages the US’ economy, or damages the world economy, it will put Trump’s re-election at risk. No doubt any of the democrat competitors would eliminate tariffs, and soften their stance against Chinese aggression. Why not try it?
Interesting hypothesis. The Chinese had Bill and Hillary in their pocket. Part of me thinks they are far worse than Imperial Japan during the lead up to WWII. They also don't care if some of their own die from this.