Post by: Rush on February 20, 2020, 08:02:54 AM
His story about the march was roughly the dividing line. Their cause was all my gay friends' cause and very dear to my heart. They wanted no more than equality, tolerance and acceptance. They didn't want to be murdered just because they walked out of a gay bar. They didn't want to lose their job because it became known they were gay, and they wanted to be able to choose a same sex partner for life with all the same economic and legal benefits. They wanted to be loved and accepted by their families. Back then, these things were where their focus was.
They didn't want to force other people to speak a certain way or ram the "out" lifestyle down the throats of general society. And they NEVER EVER would use hatred as a weapon. Maybe most gays are still that way, but the liberal elite has turned this cause into an ugly campaign of oppression and hatred, against everyone they perceive isn't completely in lock step with them.
Post by: Number7 on February 20, 2020, 08:40:29 AM
Post by: Rush on February 20, 2020, 09:12:34 AM
The entire queer revolution is nothing but another brick in the communist war on capitalism being built by liberals and supported by george soros.
That's what I hate most about it. They're being used.
Post by: Anthony on February 20, 2020, 09:18:36 AM
You must raise your children to be "Gender Fluid" and that Trans, Gay, Lesbian etc is NORMAL, and PREFERRED. It is sick and twisted, and I won't participate.
This is just more tyranny from the Left. The basic Biology has been clear for Eons. Male, Female and Sex exist to procreate the Species. All other permutations are abnormal, and potentially destructive to the Species. I am not saying that they do not exist, nor am I saying they should be treated poorly and harshly. However, it shouldn't be promoted as normal and/or preferred.
Post by: Rush on February 20, 2020, 01:07:17 PM
Today the Left, Media, Education, Social Media, Entertainment LGBT cabal is not about acceptance, nor tolerance. It is NOT about live and let live. It is about capitulation and submission. If you don't promote, glorify, over indulge, celebrate LGBT in all of its EXTREME forms you are labeled a Racist, Sexist, Homophobe.
Well said and spot on!
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You must raise your children to be "Gender Fluid" and that Trans, Gay, Lesbian etc is NORMAL, and PREFERRED. It is sick and twisted, and I won't participate.
This is just more tyranny from the Left. The basic Biology has been clear for Eons. Male, Female and Sex exist to procreate the Species. All other permutations are abnormal, and potentially destructive to the Species. I am not saying that they do not exist, nor am I saying they should be treated poorly and harshly. However, it shouldn't be promoted as normal and/or preferred.
I partially disagree. Transgender yes, that is abnormal and extremely rare in its genuine form. At its most basic, there are biological reasons, such as chromosome abnormalities (example Klinefelter syndrome), there are infants born with ambiguous genitalia, all of which result in the need to choose which "gender" the child should be raised as, and there is such a thing as botched circumcision (the whole peepee falls off) which tragically used to result in parents being advised to cut the baby's balls off too and raise him as a girl. So there are real and physical causes for some transgender feelings in some people.
Beyond this, in normal XX females and XY males born with correct DNA and correct genitalia, there are hormone abnormalities leading the person to "feel" more like the opposite gender. To be male, not only must you have XY chromosomes and external junk, you must have gallons of testosterone and you must have that beginning long before birth while you're still in the womb. Too much estrogen you end up feeling too female. This was confirmed with the DES disaster.
Your garden variety transgender, who knows? They really exist but we need a lot more research to figure out the cause. I seriously doubt there is enough data supporting whether or not these people had the correct hormone balance while in the womb. These people have rather unstable self identities and whether that's a chicken or egg thing isn't really known. All of these cases case pain and dysfunction and hence are abnormal and should imo be treated as disorders to be studied, to help these people.
Then at the highest level (most removed from presumed biochemical cause) are people who seem to be using gender identity confusion as a way to get attention, or to avoid certain problems, or to identify with a disadvantaged minority, and these, I believe are growing in number due to all the publicity given the whole LBGTQetc. movement. It's a terrible result, because it is causing a backlash against ALL transgenders. For example, on the ballot here in Texas is Proposition 6 which if it passes, will ban gender transition treatment in children. It's a horrific government overreach into deeply personal decisions made by parents and doctors in the best interest of their children. In the real cases I describe above, parents and doctors need to be free to do this. However, if tons of fake TG little kids are popping up because they're being taught about TG in kindergarden, then maybe we do need to ban this because it's going to apply to a lot of kids that otherwise would never thought of themselves as gender dysphoric, and it will ruin their lives.
The whole goddamn business needed to stay under the political radar, and be treated like a medical disorder with intelligence, scientific research, compassion and understanding. But the left has made it political football and the right is reacting in kind and it is all very sickening.
But gays and lesbians are totally different. They are not abnormal whatsoever physically or chemically or in their gender identity. They are such a different category that the whole LBGT tag is bullshit. They only banded together because both were ostracized by society, and because there is some superficial resemblance. Gay males can act "swishy" and effeminate but that's an affectation, not gender dysphoria. Same with "butch" lesbians. These people are secure in their gender identity, and know that they are attracted to their own gender.
Homosexual behavior is normal for many animal species, and it has always been present in humans for as long as history has been recorded. Sex is not just for procreation. It's also used to bond individuals together, most especially in marriage, whether or not a child results. In the animal kingdom, it is used to show dominance, it is used to diffuse tension in conflicts, and to bond male allies that need to fight together to protect their group. Of course, after they "do" each other and fight off invaders, they then fight each other for the right to mate with the females, so most of time you don't find dedicated life long homosexual unions in the animal kingdom, but they have been known to occur. However there is plenty of occasional same sex boinking. We just don't know about it because it was carefully edited out of all the nature documentaries we saw as kids.
So anyway I disagree with the gay and lesbian part of your statement that all other permutations are destructive to the species. But I certainly agree they shouldn't be promoted as preferred. That's ludicrous. They should just be accepted as a normal variation, not better and not worse. It's not going to ruin mankind, they will always be only about 10% of the population.
Post by: Number7 on February 20, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
When Ronald Reagan wanted to quarantine those individuals with what waa then referred to as 'gay men's disease,' the left used it to paint the rest of us as anti queer. It was all political and used to drive votes to the leftists. The resulting spread of what would have been far more easy to contain is ALL on the fucking communist party (democrats).
Post by: Anthony on February 20, 2020, 03:17:03 PM
Separating Gays and Lesbians from Trans make sense as they do occur more frequently than the gender challenged. However, they are still a very, very small percentage of the population. I have heard 1% - 3% Gay and Lesbian. To me that's abnormal. YMMV.
Post by: Rush on February 21, 2020, 07:01:37 AM
I agree with most of what you say Rush, and you were much closer to the Gay and Lesbian community than I ever was. I have known virtually NO LGBT in my lifetime. My only contact was sitting down at a table of Lesbians in a bar at Dykes on Bikes weekend when I lived in San Francisco. They were very nice and we had a good time.
Separating Gays and Lesbians from Trans make sense as they do occur more frequently than the gender challenged. However, they are still a very, very small percentage of the population. I have heard 1% - 3% Gay and Lesbian. To me that's abnormal. YMMV.
Dikes on bikes LOL!
Trannies 1% at most but I’ve always heard 10% gays, but it’s an estimate because until recent years very many stayed totally closeted for life. Some still do. I’d be willing to bet both our sources could be biased and the truth might be somewhere in between. I’ll have to research this when I’m not doing taxes or trying to earn money here, or making other pointless long posts on an Internet forum. :P
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on February 21, 2020, 09:23:02 AM
... I’ll have to research this when I’m not doing taxes or trying to earn money here, or making other pointless long posts on an Internet forum.
so, we shouldn't expect that anytime soon, eh?
Post by: Little Joe on February 21, 2020, 10:37:25 AM
However, they are still a very, very small percentage of the population. I have heard 1% - 3% Gay and Lesbian. To me that's abnormal. YMMV.I heard the 10% gay number since back in the '70s and I thought that was ridiculous. I don't think so any more. In fact, I believe it may be higher than 10%. I have had several instances where I worked with gays of both sexes and have become good friends with many of them. I was thoroughly amazed when they introduced me to their gay friends. I either knew, or knew OF many of them. As it turned out, it was unbelievable to me how many people I worked with and did business with every day were quietly gay.
Post by: Anthony on February 21, 2020, 11:21:27 AM
I heard the 10% gay number since back in the '70s and I thought that was ridiculous. I don't think so any more. In fact, I believe it may be higher than 10%. I have had several instances where I worked with gays of both sexes and have become good friends with many of them. I was thoroughly amazed when they introduced me to their gay friends. I either knew, or knew OF many of them. As it turned out, it was unbelievable to me how many people I worked with and did business with every day were quietly gay.
My experience has been totally opposite. Yes, I have encountered gay men and women out and about. The dykes on bikes I met were lesbians but were there specifically because of the event. Since I speak motorcycle, we got along great.
I have never worked with an openly gay man or woman. I have never known gays as friends or family members. I firmly believe the Media and society greatly overstates the numbers of LGBT for PC, Woke, SJW purposes. I have nothing against them and hope they are treated just like everyone else. However, I do think they are rare and an anomaly in life.
Post by: Little Joe on February 21, 2020, 11:27:36 AM
I have never KNOWINGLY worked with an openly gay man or woman.I think adding one word makes you statement more credible.
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I have never known gays as friends or family members. I firmly believe the Media and society greatly overstates the numbers of LGBT for PC, Woke, SJW purposes. I have nothing against them and hope they are treated just like everyone else. However, I do think they are rare and an anomaly in life.If my correction above is legitimate, then don't you think your assumptions could be invalid?
Post by: Anthony on February 21, 2020, 11:49:09 AM
I think adding one word makes you statement more credible.
Well if they were "Openly" Gay, then I think I'd know it. :)
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If my correction above is legitimate, then don't you think your assumptions could be invalid?
Well, my assumption could certainly be invalid, but again, if they were openly gay it would be pretty obvious. I don't think it is anywhere near 1/4 of the population like "they" want us to think in order to "normalize" it. I think 10% is possible but not probable.
Post by: Rush on February 21, 2020, 12:09:27 PM
Well if they were "Openly" Gay, then I think I'd know it. :)
Well, my assumption could certainly be invalid, but again, if they were openly gay it would be pretty obvious. I don't think it is anywhere near 1/4 of the population like "they" want us to think in order to "normalize" it. I think 10% is possible but not probable.
No it's not a quarter. It's hard to judge by personal experience. At least 50% in my circle were gay or tranny at some points in my life, but I know that's not representative of the population.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on February 21, 2020, 01:48:05 PM
I heard the 10% gay number since back in the '70s and I thought that was ridiculous. I don't think so any more. In fact, I believe it may be higher than 10%. I have had several instances where I worked with gays of both sexes and have become good friends with many of them. I was thoroughly amazed when they introduced me to their gay friends. I either knew, or knew OF many of them. As it turned out, it was unbelievable to me how many people I worked with and did business with every day were quietly gay.
Do you work in a hair salon?
Post by: Little Joe on February 21, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Well if they were "Openly" Gay, then I think I'd know it. :)oops. I missed the word "openly".
Well, my assumption could certainly be invalid, but again, if they were openly gay it would be pretty obvious. I don't think it is anywhere near 1/4 of the population like "they" want us to think in order to "normalize" it. I think 10% is possible but not probable.
I have nothing to base this on, but I believe if you include bi-sexuals, then 10% is possible. I don't understand it, but I I can recognize it.
I'll also say that while I am NOT homophobic (I am not afraid of gays), I am physically repulsed by the thought of whatever it is that gay men do. But for some reason, I can thoroughly understand gay women.
Post by: Anthony on February 21, 2020, 02:01:58 PM
oops. I missed the word "openly".
I have nothing to base this on, but I believe if you include bi-sexuals, then 10% is possible. I don't understand it, but I I can recognize it.
I guess I could accept 10%, but I think that's even stretching, it but what do I know. My little Polly Anna, view of the world and all.
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I'll also say that while I am NOT homophobic (I am not afraid of gays), I am physically repulsed by the thought of whatever it is that gay men do. But for some reason, I can thoroughly understand gay women.
LOL! Yeah, I am more "understanding" of that too.
My most recent Ex-wife used to watch girl on girl soft porn when I first met her, and she immediately thought I'd be into that, but I wasn't. I don't find it revolting like I do the thought of two men together, but I'm not attracted to it either like some men. She also admitted she had a few, relatively innocuous encounters with women in her past.
Post by: Number7 on February 21, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
oops. I missed the word "openly".
I have nothing to base this on, but I believe if you include bi-sexuals, then 10% is possible. I don't understand it, but I I can recognize it.
So... the queer community proclaims itself LBTQT??? So, if they claim themselves bi then how can they proclaim that there are 32 genders.
Which is it???
Post by: Little Joe on February 21, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
How do you think your next ex-wife will feel about it? ;)
My most recent Ex-wife used to watch girl on girl soft porn when I first met her, and she immediately thought I'd be into that, but I wasn't. I don't find it revolting like I do the thought of two men together, but I'm not attracted to it either like some men. She also admitted she had a few, relatively innocuous encounters with women in her past.
Post by: Lucifer on February 21, 2020, 02:07:56 PM
Post by: Anthony on February 21, 2020, 02:12:26 PM
How do you think your next ex-wife will feel about it? ;)
If she's rich, I couldn't care less. ;D
Post by: Rush on February 21, 2020, 02:23:01 PM
oops. I missed the word "openly".
I have nothing to base this on, but I believe if you include bi-sexuals, then 10% is possible. I don't understand it, but I I can recognize it.
I'll also say that while I am NOT homophobic (I am not afraid of gays), I am physically repulsed by the thought of whatever it is that gay men do. But for some reason, I can thoroughly understand gay women.
HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Oh man, I understand. I was reading a blog written by a gay guy about a certain TV show, and he's talking about this scene with two hot young men who were both under the supernatural control of some evil witch and she had sent one of them into the hospital room of the other to visit him but really to open the window so she could enter later that night and kill him, and so he's going on about how sexy they both are, how they're both dirty and disheveled, and drained by this evil woman, and the only thing wrong with the scene is the witch didn't use her powers to make them kiss.
I thought I'd die laughing. It must be the corollary to the cat fight fantasy men have about women. Seinfeld did a whole episode on it.
"Because men think that if women are grabbing and clawing at each other there's a chance they might somehow kiss."
Post by: Mr Pou on February 21, 2020, 02:27:32 PM
Girl fights were great, anything goes. Clawing, scratching, biting, hair pulling, shin kicking, bra grabbing, pants pulling.....anything was on the menu. Good memories...
Post by: Anthony on February 21, 2020, 02:29:51 PM
Oh, they needed to show Raquel Welch actually IN the cat fight. In a bikini.
Post by: Rush on February 21, 2020, 04:44:21 PM
^^^^I liked the Seinfeld episode where all the waitresses had big boobs, and Elaine thought they were being "sexist" by only hiring them. It turned out they were the owner's daughters. Can we see that one?
Oh that one was brilliant.
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Oh, they needed to show Raquel Welch actually IN the cat fight. In a bikini.
She was gorgeous, and I'm a straight female.
Post by: nddons on February 22, 2020, 06:42:08 AM
I'll also say that while I am NOT homophobic (I am not afraid of gays), I am physically repulsed by the thought of whatever it is that gay men do. But for some reason, I can thoroughly understand gay women.I’m the same. I literally get nauseous when I see two men kiss. (That’s why gay Buttigeg will never become president, but that’s another topic.)
But not two women. At all. My wife doesn’t understand my reaction, but I tell her that they like what I like. Also, most men just secretly hope we get invited to the party.
On the other hand, I think that two beautiful women being a lesbian couple is the exception, not the rule.
Post by: Anthony on February 22, 2020, 07:21:03 AM
On the other hand, I think that two beautiful women being a lesbian couple is the exception, not the rule.
I'm not the best at critiquing Lesbian couples as I just have not been around that many. However, I've been around them much more than Gay men, thankfully. What I have noticed is that there is often one that seems more masculine (butch) and one more feminine, almost like a hetero husband and wife. Although, I have also seen two butch women together in a couple. The ones that aren't militant, Man hating Feminazis can actually be quite nice.
In my Dykes on Bikes example above, I hung out with a bunch of Lesbians and we had a nice time because prior to Aviation, I was a motorcycle enthusiast, so could speak their language. Our sexuality never came up, but I am sure they knew I was straight because I was with my girlfriend at the time, and didn't talk about fashion, Broadway show tunes, plus my bag DIDN'T match my outfit. ;D
Post by: Rush on February 22, 2020, 08:21:28 AM
I'm not the best at critiquing Lesbian couples as I just have not been around that many. However, I've been around them much more than Gay men, thankfully. What I have noticed is that there is often one that seems more masculine (butch) and one more feminine, almost like a hetero husband and wife. Although, I have also seen two butch women together in a couple. The ones that aren't militant, Man hating Feminazis can actually be quite nice.
In my Dykes on Bikes example above, I hung out with a bunch of Lesbians and we had a nice time because prior to Aviation, I was a motorcycle enthusiast, so could speak their language. Our sexuality never came up, but I am sure they knew I was straight because I was with my girlfriend at the time, and didn't talk about fashion, Broadway show tunes, plus my bag DIDN'T match my outfit. ;D
I’ve seen lesbian couples where they both are “femme”. But I suppose normally you have one that fancies herself the “butch” but it’s not mandatory. When you’re talking about women who are not transgender, I think the appearance that one acts more like the “male” (more dominant perhaps) is a result of normal human hierarchy behavior. In all human relationships, just as all other primates, we arrange ourselves in a pecking order. It’s very rare any two individuals are exactly equal. In a healthy couple they share power, yes. Or allocate power among different areas of their lives, but one will always have a subtle maybe even subconscious edge over the other. Incidentally this is fluid, it can flip flop over time. Witness a young hetero couple where the man dominates but by retirement age the wife rules.
Anyhow, I postulate that lesbian couples are simply accentuating the normal power imbalance in any human pairing, by dressing it up with affectations and labels, and it’s not accidental that it follows the traditional template of male being the dominant “head of household”, so that the dominant lesbian takes on the “male” role, because after all, they are attempting to create the same romantic-sexual dynamic that occurs between male-female pair bonds. But this is not transgenderism. Very few of the butch lesbians I knew wanted to actually be male.
This is not to say that a “butch” lesbian is faking her butchness. It’s real and it’s usually an outgrowth of childhood “tomboy” characteristics. Now, there can be straight tomboys and lesbian tomboys, and then there are transgender tomboys. Forget the TG ones for the moment. For females secure in their gender, “tomboy” means they are attracted to the things that normally attract males and they have some behavior characteristics normally associated more with males but all of this overlaps considerably. It can also vary on separate but parallel tracks. For example, athleticism vs mechanical nerdiness. Both are considered more male pursuits than female. (Let’s put aside politically correct gender misappropriations created out of thin air by social justice warriors - gender differences in interests and behavior is real, end of story.)
So a girl can be tomboyish in some things but not others, and of course the reverse can apply to males, but I am really getting off track. The point I’m circling here is that I believe there is a relationship between hormone levels and gender differences, and what everyone seems to forget is that both men and women have both male and female hormones and we all have them at various levels. I don’t know if a study has been done but I theorize that female tomboys might have higher circulating levels of testosterone than girly girls. This doesn’t automatically make them lesbian - we really have no idea why people are attracted to their own gender. I wouldn’t be surprised if straight tomboys and lesbian tomboys both have higher than normal, for female, testosterone but not so high as to make them male (grow male secondary sex characteristics).
The same male hormone that makes you like trucks and trains instead of baby dolls also makes you feel and behave farther up the male spectrum than the average girl, but again, not so far as to be male. It’s my theory this is what butch lesbians are and this is also what straight females are who become construction foremen. Uh, forewomen? Ugh.
Anyhow the butch-femme dynamic is real and now you know exactly how it comes about. ;D