PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Lucifer on April 01, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
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@steingar, what do you think? Fits with what you said about them doing research on viruses, but they didn’t invent it as a bioweapon. The only thing that gives me pause is they interviewed people at the wet markets who claimed they didn’t sell that type bat, but would those people lie for fear of getting in trouble?
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I hope I can be forgiven for not listening to Tucker Carlson, who has no expertise in Genetics, Virology, Biology, Epidemiology or anything else that I can discern. Wuhan is the capital of Hubei Province. Yes, there is a very good University there, I'm pretty certain my top graduate student came from there. There is a medical school there, and I have no doubt that there are faculty who study viruses. There have been scientists studying viruses at every institution I've ever worked on, I even did some virology for a spell and taught a virology course.
People claiming that is is some sort of bioweapon are spouting patent nonsense. We've been getting outbreaks from folks eating bush meat for years. SARS, MERS, Ebola, Swine Flu, Bird Flu all come to mind. This latest has more teeth I'll give you, but it is still an emerging disease. We haven't the wisdom to design a virus this effective, and the Chinese are way behind us in this sort of science.
In the meantime idiots spout conspiracies because that's what they do.
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^^^^But you think CNN, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, the New York Times, Washington Post, AP, Reuters and the others are GOSPEL.
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I hope I can be forgiven for not listening to Tucker Carlson, who has no expertise in Genetics, Virology, Biology, Epidemiology or anything else that I can discern. Wuhan is the capital of Hubei Province. Yes, there is a very good University there, I'm pretty certain my top graduate student came from there. There is a medical school there, and I have no doubt that there are faculty who study viruses. There have been scientists studying viruses at every institution I've ever worked on, I even did some virology for a spell and taught a virology course.
People claiming that is is some sort of bioweapon are spouting patent nonsense. We've been getting outbreaks from folks eating bush meat for years. SARS, MERS, Ebola, Swine Flu, Bird Flu all come to mind. This latest has more teeth I'll give you, but it is still an emerging disease. We haven't the wisdom to design a virus this effective, and the Chinese are way behind us in this sort of science.
In the meantime idiots spout conspiracies because that's what they do.
You mean you won’t even listen to the video or do you mean you watched it but by “listen to” mean you don’t believe Tucker Carlson is credible?
If you didn’t watch it, I can forgive you if it’s like me being unable to watch, say, Whoopi Goldberg talking about virtually anything.
So here’s the basics from the YouTube description:
On Tuesday night FOX News host Tucker Carlson reopened the case using information from a CHINESE study on the origin of the novel coronavirus.
The coronavirus came from either the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention or Wuhan Institute of Virology in Wuhan, China.
The study concluded the deadly virus came out of local laboratories in Hubei Province. The smoking gun in the study is the link to horseshoe bats which are not sold in local markets and not native to Wuhan. In fact the closest colony is 900 kilometers away. There is no evidence horseshoe bats were sold in the Wuhan wet markets. The local labs used this bat specimen and the virus came from a lab in Wuhan.
Reports linking bats to the coronavirus started making the rounds back in January.
But a recent paper published in the Wuhan Centre for Disease Control and Prevention found the source of the coronavirus is a laboratory near the Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan.
But it doesn’t link to that paper. I was wondering if you knew of it. If Carlson is just accurately relaying what that paper said, it seems to confirm that the virus did come from the lab, did not come from the wet market, and was not for the purpose of a bioweapon.
I’m guessing the lab was using horseshoe bats specifically for this virus study, and not other animals, and wondering if you had any more details on it than reported here.
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Steingar thinks Whoopi Goldberg and that YENTA Joy Behar are credible sources. ::)
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Steingar thinks Whoopi Goldberg and that YENTA Joy Behar are credible sources. ::)
...and that Rachel guy on msnbc.
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You troglodytes wouldn't know a virus if it bit you in the ass. You only believe whatever trash the conservative media feed you.
The problem with the engineered virus conspiracy idiocy is that engineered viruses leave footprints to clever geneticists. I'm a pretty dull geneticist by comparison, and I can see them. Either you design viral proteins de novo, which were aren't smart enough to do, or recombine genes from different viruses, which we can easily see.
The Coronavirus looks like a bat virus, though it could have easily had a different reservoir on tis way to humans. It is a very effective human virus, not a big surprise it made the jump. But you guys keep believing Conservative commentators who know absolutely nothing, and ignore the one guy in the room who might actually own something. More important to believe what matches your preconceptions, than actually learn something new. That wouldn't jive at all with your conservative programming.
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You troglodytes wouldn't know a virus if it bit you in the ass. You only believe whatever trash the conservative media feed you.
The problem with the engineered virus conspiracy idiocy is that engineered viruses leave footprints to clever geneticists. I'm a pretty dull geneticist by comparison, and I can see them. Either you design viral proteins de novo, which were aren't smart enough to do, or recombine genes from different viruses, which we can easily see.
The Coronavirus looks like a bat virus, though it could have easily had a different reservoir on tis way to humans. It is a very effective human virus, not a big surprise it made the jump. But you guys keep believing Conservative commentators who know absolutely nothing, and ignore the one guy in the room who might actually own something. More important to believe what matches your preconceptions, than actually learn something new. That wouldn't jive at all with your conservative programming.
Okay so you are saying the lab did not “create” the virus. But do you believe the paper that came out of China that said it came from the lab and not the wet market? Maybe it had already arisen in the horseshoe bat before it got to the lab.
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Why do I keep thinking of:
" Support? Is that what you want? I'm sorry, you were wonderful in there! The way you handled that judge... ooh you are a smooth talker. You are... you are!"
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You troglodytes wouldn't know a virus if it bit you in the ass. You only believe whatever trash the conservative media feed you.
The problem with the engineered virus conspiracy idiocy is that engineered viruses leave footprints to clever geneticists. I'm a pretty dull geneticist by comparison, and I can see them. Either you design viral proteins de novo, which were aren't smart enough to do, or recombine genes from different viruses, which we can easily see.
The Coronavirus looks like a bat virus, though it could have easily had a different reservoir on tis way to humans. It is a very effective human virus, not a big surprise it made the jump. But you guys keep believing Conservative commentators who know absolutely nothing, and ignore the one guy in the room who might actually own something. More important to believe what matches your preconceptions, than actually learn something new. That wouldn't jive at all with your conservative programming.
As long as you act like the asshole you are, yes, you will be ignored. This is why not only here, but other forums, people blow you off, because of your inane behavior. This is not your classroom where you can lord over everyone and belittle anyone who disagrees with you, and you damn sure can't hold grades over our heads.
And you know absolutely nothing about biological warfare.
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Okay so you are saying the lab did not “create” the virus. But do you believe the paper that came out of China that said it came from the lab and not the wet market? Maybe it had already arisen in the horseshoe bat before it got to the lab.
What the perfesser doesn't understand is biological warfare. Bio warfare doesn't necessarily use "manufactured viruses" to achieve the desired results. Mother Nature provides some real nifty little creatures, that when cultivated then dispersed in a clandestine manner can wreck havoc and bring an enemy to their knees.
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I was wondering how this thread ran off the rails when all I wanted was to objectively discuss the facts of the Chinese paper that Tucker is talking about, and I have found it. Here is Steingar's first response, and thank you for the factual part of it:
I hope I can be forgiven for not listening to Tucker Carlson, who has no expertise in Genetics, Virology, Biology, Epidemiology or anything else that I can discern. Wuhan is the capital of Hubei Province. Yes, there is a very good University there, I'm pretty certain my top graduate student came from there. There is a medical school there, and I have no doubt that there are faculty who study viruses. There have been scientists studying viruses at every institution I've ever worked on, I even did some virology for a spell and taught a virology course.
People claiming that is is some sort of bioweapon are spouting patent nonsense. We've been getting outbreaks from folks eating bush meat for years. SARS, MERS, Ebola, Swine Flu, Bird Flu all come to mind. This latest has more teeth I'll give you, but it is still an emerging disease. We haven't the wisdom to design a virus this effective, and the Chinese are way behind us in this sort of science.
In the meantime idiots spout conspiracies because that's what they do.
But in the bolded part you go attacking "people" and "idiots" (presumably us) for thinking it's a bioweapon conspiracy. But if you had listened to the video, Tucker shows that the paper specifically does not indicate the virus, whether engineered or natural, was ever intended as a bioweapon, however, the liberal media and the NIH have falsely spread rumors that conservatives are using that paper to prove such a conspiracy theory. If you want the slice, it's 4:00 to 4:35.
Therefore I think I've found why you are reflexively assuming all of us buy into this bioweapon conspiracy theory - you listen to mainstream media and you are believing lies they tell. Also the NIH is feeding this rumor.
You troglodytes wouldn't know a virus if it bit you in the ass. You only believe whatever trash the conservative media feed you.
It's your liberal biased media telling you that us "troglodytes" believe trash the conservative media feeds us. Mainstream conservative media is not telling us that. Maybe some sites are, but I haven't come across them.
The problem with the engineered virus conspiracy idiocy is that engineered viruses leave footprints to clever geneticists. I'm a pretty dull geneticist by comparison, and I can see them. Either you design viral proteins de novo, which were aren't smart enough to do, or recombine genes from different viruses, which we can easily see.
The Coronavirus looks like a bat virus, though it could have easily had a different reservoir on tis way to humans. It is a very effective human virus, not a big surprise it made the jump. But you guys keep believing Conservative commentators who know absolutely nothing, and ignore the one guy in the room who might actually own something. More important to believe what matches your preconceptions, than actually learn something new. That wouldn't jive at all with your conservative programming.
That is not what Tucker Carlson is saying. He does say that he believes that it's possible the virus could have been engineered, as opposed to you and the NIH saying it's impossible, but he doesn't know one way or the other, and even if it was, the Chinese paper makes clear that the release was accidental - Carlson does NOT believe in any conspiracy theory.
And so instead of listening to the video and digesting the statement that it's the liberal media spreading the rumor that all conservatives are conspiracy theory troglodytes, you attack us all here as if that were true, when all I want to do is take the Chinese paper at face value and analyze what it says. You did provide that also and for that I thank you.
What the perfesser doesn't understand is biological warfare. Bio warfare doesn't necessarily use "manufactured viruses" to achieve the desired results. Mother Nature provides some real nifty little creatures, that when cultivated then dispersed in a clandestine manner can wreck havoc and bring an enemy to their knees.
And here is Lucifer feeding right into your fantasy that you got from liberal media, and hence the insult fest this thread turned into. Although I suspect Lucifer isn't saying the Chinese did release it deliberately, just that it is possible. I don't want to speak for him but I would have to agree it's possible, although my personal opinion is to give the Chinese scientists the benefit of the doubt.
Assuming for the sake of argument that the Chinese scientists who wrote the paper have a human heart, and truly are trying to do what's best for humanity - I know, they are all lonely onlies who can't get women because of the one child policy killing all girl babies and are psychologically traumatized by living in a totalitarian nightmare so probably exist in a delusional version of reality - but lets assume for the sake of discussion they are telling the truth in this paper. The horseshoe bat info is fascinating, and makes me not want to bash China so much for eating bats, because it looks like that's not how it got let loose. Besides, wouldn't cooking them sufficiently kill any pathogens? And does anybody have a good recipe for a bat dish?
Why can't we discuss fun stuff like that instead of mutual insults? Okay it's pilotspin so nevermind... carry on! ;D
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I don't think the virus was engineered, but it hasn't been identified with any known wild virus.
Occum's razor for me says the virus mutated in a lab and then got through bio containment because it wasn't supposed to be dangerous and they weren't practicing strict protocols. If it had mutated in the wild, then we would be able to eventually find a source species.
On the other hand, there's fairly good evidence that China is not being open with the world on this, so we'll probably never know. They are a culture where the safety that comes from compliance with government desires is valued over truth.
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I don't think the virus was engineered, but it hasn't been identified with any known wild virus.
Occum's razor for me says the virus mutated in a lab and then got through bio containment because it wasn't supposed to be dangerous and they weren't practicing strict protocols. If it had mutated in the wild, then we would be able to eventually find a source species.
On the other hand, there's fairly good evidence that China is not being open with the world on this, so we'll probably never know. They are a culture where the safety that comes from compliance with government desires is valued over truth.
I think ANYTHING is possible at this point, and I don't trust China at all to be honest, nor truthful.
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The perfesser didn't even watch the video. He just saw who the commentator was and went from there. In fact, the perfesser never reads or watches anything he perceives that goes against his ideology.
Prove me wrong.
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Why can't we discuss fun stuff like that instead of mutual insults? Okay it's pilotspin so nevermind... carry on! ;D
Because the perfesser can't hold a discussion on such topics. He just wants you to marvel at his brain and digest whatever he spews, and don't you damn well question his superiority!
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I've seen explanations on why this virus (or something else) couldn't have been manufactured in a lab because the virus doesn't have some characteristic assumed or the virus would have been better engineered for <fill in the blank>
Folks. Think. It's as if people believe that a virus engineered in a lab would have a big marker on it "Made in China"
If you want to make a bioweapon but don't want it know where it comes from, make it look natural.
Even (most) telemarketers know not to forge a callerid that says "telemarketing scam"
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I've seen explanations on why this virus (or something else) couldn't have been manufactured in a lab because the virus doesn't have some characteristic assumed or the virus would have been better engineered for <fill in the blank>
Folks. Think. It's as if people believe that a virus engineered in a lab would have a big marker on it "Made in China"
If you want to make a bioweapon but don't want it know where it comes from, make it look natural.
Even (most) telemarketers know not to forge a callerid that says "telemarketing scam"
At this point, I believe almost anything is possible, including Biological Warfare out of China. Who is benefiting from this worldwide shutdown and purposeful economic disaster?
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I've seen explanations on why this virus (or something else) couldn't have been manufactured in a lab because the virus doesn't have some characteristic assumed or the virus would have been better engineered for <fill in the blank>
Folks. Think. It's as if people believe that a virus engineered in a lab would have a big marker on it "Made in China"
If you want to make a bioweapon but don't want it know where it comes from, make it look natural.
Even (most) telemarketers know not to forge a callerid that says "telemarketing scam"
Exactly. Clandestine warfare is all about keeping everyone in the dark and covering tracks.
I have a bit of history in the clandestine world, long ago. Most people don’t begin to realize to what extent countries and governments engage in this and the “silent wars” being waged. And unfortunately many believe our government wouldn’t stoop to the level of other governments. In the clandestine world the rule books go out the window.
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I think this is the paper being referred to:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/images/pdfs/The_Possible_Origins_of_the_2019-nCoV_coronavirus.pdf
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The perfessor ignores Tucker Carlson because a) Tucker Carlson will say anything that makes his troglodite listeners time into his show, and his t.l.s just love conspiracy theories that scapegoat others for their troubles and b) the perfessor knows a thing or two about:
1. Viruses
2. Aseptic procedure
3. Cell culture ( how you propagate a virus
4. Biosafety (how you keep said virus contained)
Won’t claim to know, since I haven’t been there, but I’m pretty certain the Chinese do their wet lab work the same way as us, since we trained them all. I think I know the guy who designed their lab space. Moreover, any work with a virus like this would be done in a BSL4 facility. Don’t even know if Wuhaneven has one of those.
The absolutely funniest thing is how this conspiracy theory evolves, starts as a bio weapon gone wrong, now it’s a lab specimen they thought harmless gone wrong. The second funniest thing is old men with no training in any aspect of biology claiming they know everything about bio weapons. I can see why I still frequent this idiot site. Good entertainment.
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Mikey is a fucking troll.
Don’t feed his dumb ass.
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(https://pics.me.me/Facebook-ff7003.png)
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The absolutely funniest thing is how this conspiracy theory evolves, starts as a bio weapon gone wrong, now it’s a lab specimen they thought harmless gone wrong.
I’m not following you. I am as far as bio weapon gone wrong, okay that’s a conspiracy theory, but now a lab specimen they thought harmless gone wrong? You have lost me, how is that a conspiracy theory? That’s what the Chinese scientists determined happened. I posted a link to the paper itself so there is no Tucker Carlson spin.
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The perfessor ignores Tucker Carlson because a) Tucker Carlson will say anything that makes his troglodite listeners time into his show, and his t.l.s just love conspiracy theories that scapegoat others for their troubles and b) the perfessor knows a thing or two about:
1. Viruses
2. Aseptic procedure
3. Cell culture ( how you propagate a virus
4. Biosafety (how you keep said virus contained)
Won’t claim to know, since I haven’t been there, but I’m pretty certain the Chinese do their wet lab work the same way as us, since we trained them all. I think I know the guy who designed their lab space. Moreover, any work with a virus like this would be done in a BSL4 facility. Don’t even know if Wuhaneven has one of those.
The absolutely funniest thing is how this conspiracy theory evolves, starts as a bio weapon gone wrong, now it’s a lab specimen they thought harmless gone wrong. The second funniest thing is old men with no training in any aspect of biology claiming they know everything about bio weapons. I can see why I still frequent this idiot site. Good entertainment.
I'm thinking the funniest thing is watching liberals try to spin this to make it look like Trump's fault. Some idiot even blamed trump for failing to figure out how to get "some serology" going, as if Trump is going to be looking at blood specimens through a microscope.
Michael, if you don't want us to continue to call you an idiot, then stop saying idiotic things.
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Won’t claim to know, since I haven’t been there, but I’m pretty certain the Chinese do their wet lab work the same way as us, since we trained them all. I think I know the guy who designed their lab space. Moreover, any work with a virus like this would be done in a BSL4 facility. Don’t even know if Wuhaneven has one of those.
The absolutely funniest thing is how this conspiracy theory evolves, starts as a bio weapon gone wrong, now it’s a lab specimen they thought harmless gone wrong. The second funniest thing is old men with no training in any aspect of biology claiming they know everything about bio weapons. I can see why I still frequent this idiot site. Good entertainment.
If it could be matched to a known source in the wild, it would be easy to accept that. But it hasn't been, the closest has been in pangolins, but it's only 99%. It's not impossible the source was a wild infection, but they've looked for it and not found it, raising it to at least the level of improbable.
In my younger days, I worked as IT at a US university, in the biology dept, including a lab which studied viruses, something to do with earthworms. The phd in charge of that lab had a relaxed attitude about containment because he believed the phages/viruses could never cross to humans. I know because I had to run computer wiring into the lab and set up new computers when a new grant was approved. Not even a mask required.
There has been reports that the lab in Wuhan was studying coronavirus, which means it must be included as a potential source. It was previously believed that the virus could not be transmitted to humans and that was probably true. But...wherever it happened... the virus mutated naturally into a state where it could be transmitted.
We cannot match it in the wild, so it HAS mutated, the question is where. I find it far more probable that it mutated in a lab with studies being run than to say it mutated in a wet market, at exactly the right time so it wasn't spread to the wild population, but did result in large scale contamination to the market? Again improbable.
This isn't uninformed speculation for me. After eliminating the impossible, whatever is left must be the truth. 2 - 0 + 2 very strongly implies 4.
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We cannot match it in the wild, so it HAS mutated, the question is where.
um, no. Being unable to match it in the wild could simply mean we haven't identified all the wild sources.
Unless you think we have a complete map of all the viruses in the wild.
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Here's one of the liberal standard bearers:
https://twitter.com/KenWebsterII/status/1246959743513628673
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Here, I want to post this now, since the perfesser will be on here shortly to do another drive by and start flinging this around.
You're welcome.
https://pjmedia.com/election/democrats-prep-to-blame-trump-for-the-coronavirus-economy/
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Here, I want to post this now, since the perfesser will be on here shortly to do another drive by and start flinging this around.
You're welcome.
https://pjmedia.com/election/democrats-prep-to-blame-trump-for-the-coronavirus-economy/
I'm not holding my breath waiting for the professor to back up his words about President Trump causing a multitude of crises.
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Here's one of the liberal standard bearers:
https://twitter.com/KenWebsterII/status/1246959743513628673
She looks like the maid from the TV show, "The Jeffersons".
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I'm not holding my breath waiting for the professor to back up his words about President Trump causing a multitude of crises.
Not to speak for him but I’m sure he means the crisis of the “trade war” with China and the crisis of building a wall to stop illegal aliens. That is a crisis because it deprives the Democrats of votes. Maybe he also means the crisis of the Ukraine wanting to investigate Biden’s corruption.
CNN hypes all of that up into crises so that stuff is probably what he means.
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Oh and of course since you all think you're experts at everything you can explain why Chinese scientists were studying obscure viruses from faraway species of bats. Most of the virologists of my acquaintance (and yes, that's a LOT, how many do you know?) study viruses that either cause human disease or economic harm. The Chinese virologists all studied the viruses of species important to agriculture and aquaculture. Some animals viruses are scrutinized because they cause cancer. The bioweapons stuff I've seen all centered around delivering stuff we already know is harmful, not finding new sci fi viruses. But you guys all know better because you listen to Tucker Carlson!
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Oh and of course since you all think you're experts at everything you can explain why Chinese scientists were studying obscure viruses from faraway species of bats. Most of the virologists of my acquaintance (and yes, that's a LOT, how many do you know?) study viruses that either cause human disease or economic harm. The Chinese virologists all studied the viruses of species important to agriculture and aquaculture. Some animals viruses are scrutinized because they cause cancer. The bioweapons stuff I've seen all centered around delivering stuff we already know is harmful, not finding new sci fi viruses. But you guys all know better because you listen to Tucker Carlson!
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6y25d9tDR1ra0wako1_250.gif)
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The bioweapons stuff I've seen all centered around delivering stuff we already know is harmful, not finding new sci fi viruses. But you guys all know better because you listen to Tucker Carlson!
I suspect that there's a lot of secret bioweapons stuff that you HAVEN'T seen. It's secret. Duh.
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I suspect that there's a lot of secret bioweapons stuff that you HAVEN'T seen. It's secret. Duh.
Well, he might have seen it, but certainly wouldn't be able to discuss it.
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Well, he might have seen it, but certainly wouldn't be able to discuss it.
That makes it really hard to have a productive discussion. So what he said would be more properly, "The bioweapons stuff I've seen [except all the secret stuff I can't talk about] all centered around delivering stuff we already know is harmful, not finding new sci fi viruses."
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That makes it really hard to have a productive discussion. So what he said would be more properly, "The bioweapons stuff I've seen [except all the secret stuff I can't talk about] all centered around delivering stuff we already know is harmful, not finding new sci fi viruses."
yup - it's generally best to not say anything at all.
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Does anyone with half a brain think that China would announce to the world they are working on bio-weapons? I don't think so.
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Does anyone with half a brain think that China would announce to the world they are working on bio-weapons? I don't think so.
Actually, I'm pretty there are people with half a brain that do think just that...
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The bioweapons stuff I've seen all centered around delivering stuff we already know is harmful, not finding new sci fi viruses.
I know you won't answer, but what level of a security clearance do you hold? And I'm not speaking to university stuff, I'm speaking to US government level.
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Does anyone with half a brain think that China would announce to the world they are working on bio-weapons? I don't think so.
China signed onto the Biological Weapons Convention with 182 other countries. So by disclosing publicly they are indeed working on bioweapons kinda puts them in an awkward position.
Of course, a way to hide one's program is to call it "virus research". But then the problem one has to ask is why "virus research" is being done within a lab that intelligence confirms that bioweapon research is being done.
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I know you won't answer, but what level of a security clearance do you hold? And I'm not speaking to university stuff, I'm speaking to US government level.
That's not a fair question. It's debatable how much someone should discuss the clearances they have. And you can bet large sums of money that a clearance for bioweapon reseach is most definitely something that should not be discussed.
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That's not a fair question. It's debatable how much someone should discuss the clearances they have. And you can bet large sums of money that a clearance for bioweapon reseach is most definitely something that should not be discussed.
My point is the perfesser doesn't hold squat. He's just spouting bullshit as usual.
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Oh and of course since you all think you're experts at everything you can explain why Chinese scientists were studying obscure viruses from faraway species of bats. Most of the virologists of my acquaintance (and yes, that's a LOT, how many do you know?) study viruses that either cause human disease or economic harm. The Chinese virologists all studied the viruses of species important to agriculture and aquaculture. Some animals viruses are scrutinized because they cause cancer. The bioweapons stuff I've seen all centered around delivering stuff we already know is harmful, not finding new sci fi viruses. But you guys all know better because you listen to Tucker Carlson!
I for one am able to listen to Tucker Carlson (or anyone really) and parse out what I want to believe and what I think he’s wrong about. Just speaking for myself. I was kind of hoping you would do the same.
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I for one am able to listen to Tucker Carlson (or anyone really) and parse out what I want to believe and what I think he’s wrong about. Just speaking for myself. I was kind of hoping you would do the same.
Tucker Carlson is one of the better, more reasonable talking heads on TV. However, he acknowledges and promotes that he is an OPINION show host (like many of the other Fox shows) and not a "News Broadcaster". He gives his OPINION, of which I often, but not always agree. Yes, people should be able to decide for themselves what OPNIONS of his are accurate, or not. However, indoctrinated, Far Leftists see "Fox News" and their emotions get so involved their brain ceases to function, it seems.
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Like I've been saying, this is utterly typical of the denizens of this board. You've all decided that you're experts at virology and bioweapons production because you listened to a talking head on TV. In the meantime you have an actual scientist telling you how it is. But that doesn't jive with your viewpoint, so you reject it in favor of your imaginary narrative. I think this is what's happening to the nation at large, all the way up to Trump not listening to the virologists and epidemiologists at his disposal and instead deciding he was the big expert. Now we have a deadly disease creeping across our land that should have been kept out in the first place. And we don't even have serology. I can't believe after all this time we haven't any serology. What a clusterfuck. But you guys still give Trump the thumbs up because, well, Trump.
The only one I'm impressed with is my own governor, because he isn't brain dead like some of you. He listened to the medical community, got in front of the damn thing and it isn't so bad here. Isn't so good, but it could have been way worse.
I'll say it again. This is the firs crisis not of Trump's own making. The disease is stalking us across the land, and the actions we have to take to limit its spread are likely to cause another depression. I told you this wouldn't end well.
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(https://i.imgur.com/lRTxfHJ.gif)
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Like I've been saying, this is utterly typical of the denizens of this board. You've all decided that you're experts at virology and bioweapons production because you listened to a talking head on TV. In the meantime you have an actual scientist telling you how it is. But that doesn't jive with your viewpoint, so you reject it in favor of your imaginary narrative. I think this is what's happening to the nation at large, all the way up to Trump not listening to the virologists and epidemiologists at his disposal and instead deciding he was the big expert. Now we have a deadly disease creeping across our land that should have been kept out in the first place. And we don't even have serology. I can't believe after all this time we haven't any serology. What a clusterfuck. But you guys still give Trump the thumbs up because, well, Trump.
The only one I'm impressed with is my own governor, because he isn't brain dead like some of you. He listened to the medical community, got in front of the damn thing and it isn't so bad here. Isn't so good, but it could have been way worse.
I'll say it again. This is the firs crisis not of Trump's own making. The disease is stalking us across the land, and the actions we have to take to limit its spread are likely to cause another depression. I told you this wouldn't end well.
Yet you can NOT name any other crisis Trump "made". Also, "scientists" are often wrong and often politically motivated and motivated by funding. They are NOT to be trusted unless their methodology can be full vetted by someone that is objective. Not another bought and paid for, BIASED "scientist". Your profession has become CORRUPT and not to be trusted and 98% of academia has become Far Left, rabid anti America trash.
You have no credibility. NONE.
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Yet you can NOT name any other crisis Trump "made". Also, "scientists" are often wrong and often politically motivated and motivated by funding. They are NOT to be trusted unless their methodology can be full vetted by someone that is objective. Not another bought and paid for, BIASED "scientist". Your profession has become CORRUPT and not to be trusted and 98% of academia has become Far Left, rabid anti America trash.
You have no credibility. NONE.
Something tells me the perfesser has discovered students can put him on "mute" during his class now that it's being done remotely. ;D
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Yet you can NOT name any other crisis Trump "made". Also, "scientists" are often wrong and often politically motivated and motivated by funding. They are NOT to be trusted unless their methodology can be full vetted by someone that is objective. Not another bought and paid for, BIASED "scientist". Your profession has become CORRUPT and not to be trusted and 98% of academia has become Far Left, rabid anti America trash.
You have no credibility. NONE.
Like I said. My work here is done.
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Like I said. My work here is done.
It never started.
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Like I said. My work here is done.
You'll be back. Wash, rinse, repeat.............
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Like I've been saying, this is utterly typical of the denizens of this board. You've all decided that you're experts at virology and bioweapons production because you listened to a talking head on TV.
Hey! Not ME. I don't think it had anything to do with bioweapons.
In the meantime you have an actual scientist telling you how it is. But that doesn't jive with your viewpoint, so you reject it in favor of your imaginary narrative. I think this is what's happening to the nation at large, all the way up to Trump not listening to the virologists and epidemiologists at his disposal and instead deciding he was the big expert.
How is Trump not listening to the virologists and epidemiologists? Are you getting this from CNN? Have you actually listened to the entirety of Trump's daily briefings? Everything he is doing is in direct concurrence with Fauci and the other Democrat virologists and epidemiologists, and Fauci himself has said he and Trump are entirely on the same page. Is CNN not letting you see those clips? Are they cherry picking and taking shit out of context?
Now we have a deadly disease creeping across our land that should have been kept out in the first place.
Trump took early steps of stopping travel from China and was criticized for it, while the Dems were busy impeaching him and IGNORING the looming pandemic. What the hell else was Trump supposed to be doing to keep the virus out? Have you seen the clip of Fauci in Jan or Feb saying this virus is not a big threat the the U.S.???? It was FAUCI leading Trump's policy decisions. What the hell? Is CNN keeping these facts from you?
And we don't even have serology. I can't believe after all this time we haven't any serology. What a clusterfuck. But you guys still give Trump the thumbs up because, well, Trump.
Please explain to me in detail how Trump was supposed to get the serology any sooner?
The only one I'm impressed with is my own governor, because he isn't brain dead like some of you. He listened to the medical community, got in front of the damn thing and it isn't so bad here. Isn't so good, but it could have been way worse.
I'll say it again. This is the firs crisis not of Trump's own making. The disease is stalking us across the land, and the actions we have to take to limit its spread are likely to cause another depression. I told you this wouldn't end well.
Agree the actions will cause a depression, but the actions are recommended by Fauci et al. Trump is following Fauci's guidelines to the T. So if the actions cause a depression it's Trump's fault? Because he followed the advice of the liberal Democrats in academia? If Trump had not followed the guidelines, you would have blamed him even more for not doing so and "killing everyone with the virus".
Maybe you aren't saying that because you said this crisis is not of Trump's making, but above you say your Governor is the only one who got in front of it. Are you admitting Fauci did not get in front of it soon enough? Are you saying Trump should have ignored Fauci in reverse, and done more earlier?
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Like I've been saying, this is utterly typical of the denizens of this board. You've all decided that you're experts at virology and bioweapons production because you listened to a talking head on TV. In the meantime you have an actual scientist telling you how it is. But that doesn't jive with your viewpoint, so you reject it in favor of your imaginary narrative. I think this is what's happening to the nation at large, all the way up to Trump not listening to the virologists and epidemiologists at his disposal and instead deciding he was the big expert. Now we have a deadly disease creeping across our land that should have been kept out in the first place. And we don't even have serology. I can't believe after all this time we haven't any serology. What a clusterfuck. But you guys still give Trump the thumbs up because, well, Trump.
The only one I'm impressed with is my own governor, because he isn't brain dead like some of you. He listened to the medical community, got in front of the damn thing and it isn't so bad here. Isn't so good, but it could have been way worse.
I'll say it again. This is the firs crisis not of Trump's own making. The disease is stalking us across the land, and the actions we have to take to limit its spread are likely to cause another depression. I told you this wouldn't end well.
Support? Is that what you want? I'm sorry, you were wonderful in there! The way you handled that judge... ooh you are a smooth talker. You are... you are!
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Like I said. My work here is done.
You are truly amazing.
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Like I've been saying, this is utterly typical of the denizens of this board. You've all decided that you're experts at virology and bioweapons production because you listened to a talking head on TV.
Cool. You are PilotSpin's expert on virology. It's good to have you here. Since we can't change the past, what should we do NOW to stop the virus? Right now I don't care where it came from. I want to know what we (me, the country, the world) should be doing to get back to normal as soon as possible.
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Like I've been saying, this is utterly typical of the denizens of this board. You've all decided that you're experts at virology and bioweapons production because you listened to a talking head on TV. In the meantime you have an actual scientist telling you how it is. But that doesn't jive with your viewpoint, so you reject it in favor of your imaginary narrative. I think this is what's happening to the nation at large, all the way up to Trump not listening to the virologists and epidemiologists at his disposal and instead deciding he was the big expert. Now we have a deadly disease creeping across our land that should have been kept out in the first place. And we don't even have serology. I can't believe after all this time we haven't any serology. What a clusterfuck. But you guys still give Trump the thumbs up because, well, Trump.
The only one I'm impressed with is my own governor, because he isn't brain dead like some of you. He listened to the medical community, got in front of the damn thing and it isn't so bad here. Isn't so good, but it could have been way worse.
I'll say it again. This is the firs crisis not of Trump's own making. The disease is stalking us across the land, and the actions we have to take to limit its spread are likely to cause another depression. I told you this wouldn't end well.
Wow! Are you that much of a sensitive little snowflake, or or just an overall prick?
What has your panties in a bunch? I didn’t see anyone picking on you in this thread.
Your ego is over the top. My daughter is a veterinarian who is literally on the front lines of epidemiology in the food chain. She is very smart and has explained how some viruses cross species while others don’t. Rabies is the prototypical virus that makes the jump to humans.
She’s also smart enough to know what she doesn’t know, including how global adversaries could use viruses as a weapon. I have no idea if that’s what has happened, but I’m open to consider it. Too bad you aren’t that self aware.
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Like I said. My work here is done.
This isn’t an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure.
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I for one am able to listen to Tucker Carlson (or anyone really) and parse out what I want to believe and what I think he’s wrong about. Just speaking for myself. I was kind of hoping you would do the same.
mikey is WAY too immature to think for himself.
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Like I said. My work here is done.
You've NEVER done anything remotely like work\, here, or anywhere else.
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This isn’t an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure.
N666BS departing the pattern to the intellectual stratosphere,,,,,,, ::)
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https://www.scribd.com/document/455390980/How-Repeal-of-NeverNeeded-Regulations-Can-Help-Responses-to-the-COVID-19-Crisis#from_embed
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Make up your own mind. Just presented for it's conjunction with the story.
https://www.westernjournal.com/wuhan-study-mentioned-tucker-vanishes-claimed-market-didnt-sell-covid-bats-500-miles-infected-bats/
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Make up your own mind. Just presented for it's conjunction with the story.
https://www.westernjournal.com/wuhan-study-mentioned-tucker-vanishes-claimed-market-didnt-sell-covid-bats-500-miles-infected-bats/
I expect poor Xiao is going to be Arkansized pretty soon.
As for Xiao’s paper being withdrawn, again, one can come up with a number of reasons why that might be — and they mostly point in the same direction.
Yes, his conclusion was speculative, but the facts he raised made for a curious problem for Beijing. If the bats weren’t for sale at the market and they weren’t native to the area, that’s a real problem for Beijing’s official narrative.
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Hey! Not ME. I don't think it had anything to do with bioweapons.
Duly noted.
How is Trump not listening to the virologists and epidemiologists?
Fauci, one of our best infectious disease experts has to report to the Vice President, who knows nothing, before he can say anything. I think the initial press run was to calm everyone. Sounds like those guys knew exactly what was coming.
Please explain to me in detail how Trump was supposed to get the serology any sooner?
I think the first thing would have been not to fire his pandemic team. Had they been in place the second the genome clone got to our shores the env proteins would have been produced in a lab, probably at Walter Reed, though there are lots that can do it. They could have easily tagged the protein and had it pure in a week, I could. They could have then used it to make monoclonal antibodies. These are slow, but can be sped up fast with lots of effort. A couple months later we have antibodies, and a could weeks later (if we're really ramping up) we've serology kits to send everywhere. Now it takes minutes, not hours to do detection. Moreover, we'd already be on our way to a vaccine since we have surface proteins.
None of this was done. None. I would wonder why, but then I look at the guy at the top and stop wondering.
Maybe you aren't saying that because you said this crisis is not of Trump's making, but above you say your Governor is the only one who got in front of it. Are you admitting Fauci did not get in front of it soon enough? Are you saying Trump should have ignored Fauci in reverse, and done more earlier?
Trump had a window, and he blew it. He had the whole damn government to improve detection, and nothing happened. He acted to too late in every instance. And yeah, my own Governor took the drastic actions necessary before they were ever recommended by Trump or anyone else. Instead of being a true leader like Dewine, Trump just talks about imaginary vaccines and treatments. What a maroon.
I hope you guys like your epidemic and oncoming depression. According to you all it couldn't possibly be Trump's fault. Nothing bad is Trump's fault, and everything good is because of him. I got your line.
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Steingar,
I am glad you didn't leave, but I'm sure you know you can expect a deluge of taunts.
I think the biggest problem with Fauci is that the press intentionally goads both him and Trump into making conflicting statements, then they blow it out of proportion. There are no experts when it comes to COVID. There are medical experts that have good educated guesses, and there are economic experts that have different rolls and thus different advice. The President has to listen to both sets and come up with a decision that is bound to conflict with half of them every time. And the press blows up those conflicts, every time.
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Duly noted.
Fauci, one of our best infectious disease experts has to report to the Vice President, who knows nothing, before he can say anything. I think the initial press run was to calm everyone. Sounds like those guys knew exactly what was coming.I think the first thing would have been not to fire his pandemic team. Had they been in place the second the genome clone got to our shores the env proteins would have been produced in a lab, probably at Walter Reed, though there are lots that can do it. They could have easily tagged the protein and had it pure in a week, I could. They could have then used it to make monoclonal antibodies. These are slow, but can be sped up fast with lots of effort. A couple months later we have antibodies, and a could weeks later (if we're really ramping up) we've serology kits to send everywhere. Now it takes minutes, not hours to do detection. Moreover, we'd already be on our way to a vaccine since we have surface proteins.
None of this was done. None. I would wonder why, but then I look at the guy at the top and stop wondering.
Trump had a window, and he blew it. He had the whole damn government to improve detection, and nothing happened. He acted to too late in every instance. And yeah, my own Governor took the drastic actions necessary before they were ever recommended by Trump or anyone else. Instead of being a true leader like Dewine, Trump just talks about imaginary vaccines and treatments. What a maroon.
I hope you guys like your epidemic and oncoming depression. According to you all it couldn't possibly be Trump's fault. Nothing bad is Trump's fault, and everything good is because of him. I got your line.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/0bd9720ccf93b8d5140d224bab39cdad/tenor.gif?itemid=13490041)
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Had they been in place the second the genome clone got to our shores the env proteins would have been produced in a lab, probably at Walter Reed, though there are lots that can do it. They could have easily tagged the protein and had it pure in a week, I could. They could have then used it to make monoclonal antibodies. These are slow, but can be sped up fast with lots of effort. A couple months later we have antibodies, and a could weeks later (if we're really ramping up) we've serology kits to send everywhere. Now it takes minutes, not hours to do detection. Moreover, we'd already be on our way to a vaccine since we have surface proteins.
OK, let's play "what if". Let's go a few years into the future. There's billions of virus types that inhabit animals. In India one of these mutates and infects humans. There's a 14 day incubation period where the infected person shows no symptoms but can infect others easily, and then things go south in a hurry. The now-human virus spreads throughout the Indian community, but the Indian government suppresses this news. In the meantime, thousands of Indians come over to work closely with Americans. They spread the disease without knowing it or they dismiss it as a cold or the flu. Then people start dropping in the streets. Suddenly the disease becomes so obvious that no one can deny that it's happening. And it keeps spreading because those with it don't know it.
This is pretty much what happened. It's easy in hindsight to say you'd start working on a test / cure as soon as it hits the shores. Not so easy in real time when you don't know what you don't know.
Being an academic myself I run into this sort of thing all the time. Academics know a lot of theory but have no real world experience. They can't translate what happens in a lab into real life. I'm lucky that I had an actual job before I became an academic. The difference between theoretical and applied science.
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There are none so blind as he who will not see
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Duly noted.
Fauci, one of our best infectious disease experts has to report to the Vice President, who knows nothing, before he can say anything. I think the initial press run was to calm everyone. Sounds like those guys knew exactly what was coming.I think the first thing would have been not to fire his pandemic team. Had they been in place the second the genome clone got to our shores the env proteins would have been produced in a lab, probably at Walter Reed, though there are lots that can do it. They could have easily tagged the protein and had it pure in a week, I could. They could have then used it to make monoclonal antibodies. These are slow, but can be sped up fast with lots of effort. A couple months later we have antibodies, and a could weeks later (if we're really ramping up) we've serology kits to send everywhere. Now it takes minutes, not hours to do detection. Moreover, we'd already be on our way to a vaccine since we have surface proteins.
None of this was done. None. I would wonder why, but then I look at the guy at the top and stop wondering.
Trump had a window, and he blew it. He had the whole damn government to improve detection, and nothing happened. He acted to too late in every instance. And yeah, my own Governor took the drastic actions necessary before they were ever recommended by Trump or anyone else. Instead of being a true leader like Dewine, Trump just talks about imaginary vaccines and treatments. What a maroon.
I hope you guys like your epidemic and oncoming depression. According to you all it couldn't possibly be Trump's fault. Nothing bad is Trump's fault, and everything good is because of him. I got your line.
You people called Trump a racist and xenophobe for shutting off travel with China.
Regarding shutting down states, you realize of course that the Federal government has only so much power over what the individual states do, right? Of course, you're still being paid so shutting down so-called "non-essentials" doesn't affect you one bit.
Here's a reality check. Pass it on to that guy Maddow so the story can be straightened (yeah, right):
"IF YOUR TIME IS SHORT
Trump did attempt to cut the CDC’s funding, but Congress prevented it from happening.
While officials in charge of the U.S. response to pandemics did leave in 2018, it’s unclear if they were “fired.”
The U.S. was not on a list of countries receiving COVID-19 tests from the WHO. But the U.S. doesn’t usually rely on the agency for diagnostic tests, and the testing delay was due mainly to an error with the CDC’s protocol.
While Trump has called the Democratic response to the coronavirus a “hoax,” he has not used the term to describe the virus itself."
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/17/instagram-posts/celebrities-are-sharing-misleading-post-about-trum/
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Well, this is interesting.
https://www.thecollegefix.com/epidemiologist-coronavirus-could-be-exterminated-if-lockdowns-were-lifted/
Asked about Anthony Fauci, the White House medical expert who for weeks has been predicting significant numbers of COVID-19 deaths in America as well as major ongoing disruptions to daily life possibly for years, Wittkowski replied: “Well, I’m not paid by the government, so I’m entitled to actually do science.”
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OK, let's play "what if". Let's go a few years into the future. There's billions of virus types that inhabit animals. In India one of these mutates and infects humans. There's a 14 day incubation period where the infected person shows no symptoms but can infect others easily, and then things go south in a hurry. The now-human virus spreads throughout the Indian community, but the Indian government suppresses this news. In the meantime, thousands of Indians come over to work closely with Americans. They spread the disease without knowing it or they dismiss it as a cold or the flu. Then people start dropping in the streets. Suddenly the disease becomes so obvious that no one can deny that it's happening. And it keeps spreading because those with it don't know it.
One of Trump's numerous failings is he's sidelined the intelligence community and gutted the State Department. Those agencies are how we find out about emerging diseases and keep them from our shores. They're a lot of the reason why SARS and Ebola and lots of other emerging viruses haven't made it to the US in force. Trump apparently doesn't have the patience to read an intelligence briefing that doesn't shower him with effusive praise.
This is pretty much what happened. It's easy in hindsight to say you'd start working on a test / cure as soon as it hits the shores. Not so easy in real time when you don't know what you don't know.
A smart effective POTUS doesn't find these things out by watching Fox and Friends.
Being an academic myself I run into this sort of thing all the time. Academics know a lot of theory but have no real world experience. They can't translate what happens in a lab into real life. I'm lucky that I had an actual job before I became an academic. The difference between theoretical and applied science.
Maybe, but academics know pretty damn well how to clone a virus, isolate viral proteins, make things like antisera and vaccines. Kind of our stock and trade. I bet ca$h money when Trump arrived there where plenty of folks who could have headed this off at the pass. They'd done it before. But Trump prioritizes loyalty in a place where the functionaries loyalties are to the government, and not to the guy in charge. Excellence doesn't stick around in a culture like that, there are better places to be. Maybe the pandemic team didn't get fired, but I bet things got so damn bad for them that they felt compelled to leave.
Just remember, the worst pandemic in our lifetime. The buck stop somewhere, gentlemen.
The funniest thing is before all this I couldn't imagine Trump loosing reelection. Now I can't imagine him winning it.
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Maybe, but academics know pretty damn well how to clone a virus, isolate viral proteins, make things like antisera and vaccines. Kind of our stock and trade.
Many other things I can comment on, but I'll limit to this one. There's a big difference between what can be done in the lab and what can be done in the real world. Yes, you can isolate a virus and make a vaccine. I'm sure that you're very good at doing things like that otherwise you wouldn't be in the academic position you're in. You're up on the latest research, do your own research, and I assume that you publish in peer reviewed journals. You have to be good to do that. A good academic.
Then what? Start injecting everyone? Or do a test and see if the cure is worse than the disease? See if it even works outside the lab in a real living human? See if it works soon enough to prevent or cure the disease? See if there's something better that should be used instead? "Here's the latest vaccine! Let's see if this one works!" and hope that there isn't an interaction between the vaccine and whatever else is going on in that poor soul who is getting injected time and time and time again. This is like the software development "I got a clean compile! Let's ship it!" attitude. No testing? Testing is the most important part of software development after gathering requirements.
There are thousands of virologists out there. Why don't we have a vaccine or a cure yet? Trump is preventing it?
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One of Trump's numerous failings is he's sidelined the intelligence community and gutted the State Department. Those agencies are how we find out about emerging diseases and keep them from our shores. They're a lot of the reason why SARS and Ebola and lots of other emerging viruses haven't made it to the US in force. Trump apparently doesn't have the patience to read an intelligence briefing that doesn't shower him with effusive praise.
A smart effective POTUS doesn't find these things out by watching Fox and Friends.
Maybe, but academics know pretty damn well how to clone a virus, isolate viral proteins, make things like antisera and vaccines. Kind of our stock and trade. I bet ca$h money when Trump arrived there where plenty of folks who could have headed this off at the pass. They'd done it before. But Trump prioritizes loyalty in a place where the functionaries loyalties are to the government, and not to the guy in charge. Excellence doesn't stick around in a culture like that, there are better places to be. Maybe the pandemic team didn't get fired, but I bet things got so damn bad for them that they felt compelled to leave.
Just remember, the worst pandemic in our lifetime. The buck stop somewhere, gentlemen.
The funniest thing is before all this I couldn't imagine Trump loosing reelection. Now I can't imagine him winning it.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/5cbc63795496f677b4e454bf4059c3b6/tenor.gif)
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The funniest thing is before all this I couldn't imagine Trump loosing reelection. Now I can't imagine him winning it.
I'll grant you that you are a better geneticist than I am. And I also recognize that you pay attention to politics, whereas too many liberals do not. They just read or listen to the headlines and spin.
But I am not stupid, even if my brain is slowing down a little bit in old age, and I do pay attention to politics and current events, and I have concluded that Trump has an even better chance of winning in November due to the obvious theatrics by the MSM and the Democrats. People see through this panel that Pelosi is trying to establish to investigate Trump even more as he attempts to navigate our way through this crisis. Where was Pelosi and all of her oversight when Obama allowed items in the Federal stockpiles to expire and dry rot. Pelosi has been a leader in Congress for decades. Why isn't SHE the one under the microscope for our lack of readiness?
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Michael, he didn't fucking fire the pandemic team, he did a reorganization. Quit listening to Trump hating CNN and do some fucking research. You really do look beyond stupid when you post ridiculous proven to be fake news.
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I had, key word had, a FB friend that posted a meme about Trump firing the pandemic team and how we need to remember that in November. I began posting the links proving it to not be true and before I posted the third link she had deleted the post and next morning had unfriended me. She is certainly another CNN advocate.
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Some people are totally ignorant of things such as the constitution, states rights, and the powers of the federal government versus state government.
Here's a good article on how New York dealt with it: https://www.propublica.org/article/how-new-york-city-emergency-ventilator-stockpile-ended-up-on-the-auction-block
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But hey, at least Chuck Schumer is wearing a mask.
(https://pluralist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/schumer-mask.jpg)
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I find this interesting....
https://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb
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I find this interesting....
https://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb
Interesting article. I've also read and watched from doctors who are saying the same thing.
(We'll stand by now and the perfesser tell us how stupid we are, and that no way does this have any truth to it)
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I find this interesting....
https://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb
I've been seeing some stuff like this everywhere but the scientific literature, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If it's true it will be facile to nip this in the blood, yes quinine derivatives will do just fine. But that's a really, really big IF. Can't see why a virus would need porphyrin rings anyway.
Treatments for viruses are few and far between. I'd love to see this one be the big exception, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Interesting article. I've also read and watched from doctors who are saying the same thing.
(We'll stand by now and the perfesser tell us how stupid we are, and that no way does this have any truth to it)
Promising article. We have smart people, smart people 50+ years ago using slide rules and rudimentary computers figured out how to send three men 1/4 million miles from earth, land them on a foreign body, and bring them home again. Smart people of this generation will figure out how to defeat this virus.
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Coincidentally, an article about this was in today's newspaper (8 April)
https://www.faustmanlab.org/current-research/#covid19
"New and very preliminary data suggests large-scale BCG vaccination may have a role in preventing COVID-19 morbidity and mortality and may explain the variability that has been seen across borders and age groups . "
Part of the discussion was noting the difference in vacination rates between Spain and Italy and vacination rates in Japan, India, Taiwan (and then note the differences in cases/1M population)
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and then I read about Woody Harrelson claiming a connection between COVID-19 and 5G.
<sigh>
Scratch Woody off the list of actors worth watching...
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But hey, at least Chuck Schumer is wearing a mask.
(https://pluralist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/schumer-mask.jpg)
Schumer's nose can't fit. A characteristic of his race. ;D
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and then I read about Woody Harrelson claiming a connection between COVID-19 and 5G.
<sigh>
Scratch Woody off the list of actors worth watching...
There aren't too many left.
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There aren't too many left.
Alyssa Milano... Rosy O'Donnell... Cher... Mark Ruffalo... Bette Midler...
...and the beat goes on...
Mental Illness and hollyweird seem to together.
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Alyssa Milano... Rosy O'Donnell... Cher... Mark Ruffalo... Bette Midler...
...and the beat goes on...
Mental Illness and hollyweird seem to together.
Rob Reiner, Madonna, Larry David........
It is a cultural thing. The Entertainment/Hollywood culture is largely narcissistic and mentally unbalanced. That is why we see so may emotional and personality disorders, alcohol and drug abuse, and other calamities. It is the nature of the business. To want to perform in front of others so, so badly means you get your self worth from others. Not a recipe for stability.
The Jimmy Stewarts of the world are few and far between.
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Well, this is interesting.
https://www.thecollegefix.com/epidemiologist-coronavirus-could-be-exterminated-if-lockdowns-were-lifted/
Asked about Anthony Fauci, the White House medical expert who for weeks has been predicting significant numbers of COVID-19 deaths in America as well as major ongoing disruptions to daily life possibly for years, Wittkowski replied: “Well, I’m not paid by the government, so I’m entitled to actually do science.”
“[W]hat people are trying to do is flatten the curve. I don’t really know why. But, what happens is if you flatten the curve, you also prolong, to widen it, and it takes more time. And I don’t see a good reason for a respiratory disease to stay in the population longer than necessary,” he said.
“With all respiratory diseases, the only thing that stops the disease is herd immunity. About 80% of the people need to have had contact with the virus, and the majority of them won’t even have recognized that they were infected, or they had very, very mild symptoms, especially if they are children. So, it’s very important to keep the schools open and kids mingling to spread the virus to get herd immunity as fast as possible, and then the elderly people, who should be separated, and the nursing homes should be closed during that time, can come back and meet their children and grandchildren after about 4 weeks when the virus has been exterminated,”
THIS^^^^^. I have been struggling all along with the “flatten the curve” theory because it widens the curve, and while the benefit is fewer cases simultaneously, if we are going to shut down the economy for the whole of the curve, the damage to the economy increases logarithmically with time.
It is bothering me a great deal that no one in the briefings is talking about this. Fauci and Birx are cheerfully praising how social distancing is flattening the curve, with not a word about failed businesses and lost jobs. Pence is bragging about the “control tower” military style logistics moving resources around and Trump only talks about the stimulus money to help us “get over the hump” but is not giving details about failing businesses and lost jobs, and the media of course wouldn’t report it anyway.
I have seen NO “modeling” predicting lives lost due to economic collapse over time, none. Someone please point me to one if I missed it. Trump, Pence, Fauci, Birx and all the rest could at least act like they are thinking about the other side of the equation beyond “let’s throw money at it”. Money the government doesn’t have by the way.
But it’s not like I think Trump shouldn’t have gone along with this circus; if he hadn’t he would have been tarred and feathered. I’m supposed to trust that he IS thinking about the economy and somehow will put a stop to this nonsense before it’s too late, if it isn’t already.
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THIS^^^^^. I have been struggling all along with the “flatten the curve” theory because it widens the curve, and while the benefit is fewer cases simultaneously, if we are going to shut down the economy for the whole of the curve, the damage to the economy increases logarithmically with time.
It is bothering me a great deal that no one in the briefings is talking about this. Fauci and Birx are cheerfully praising how social distancing is flattening the curve, with not a word about failed businesses and lost jobs. Pence is bragging about the “control tower” military style logistics moving resources around and Trump only talks about the stimulus money to help us “get over the hump” but is not giving details about failing businesses and lost jobs, and the media of course wouldn’t report it anyway.
I have seen NO “modeling” predicting lives lost due to economic collapse over time, none. Someone please point me to one if I missed it. Trump, Pence, Fauci, Birx and all the rest could at least act like they are thinking about the other side of the equation beyond “let’s throw money at it”. Money the government doesn’t have by the way.
But it’s not like I think Trump shouldn’t have gone along with this circus; if he hadn’t he would have been tarred and feathered. I’m supposed to trust that he IS thinking about the economy and somehow will put a stop to this nonsense before it’s too late, if it isn’t already.
You're right, Trump had NO CHOICE but to go along with the circus largely due to a Media that would paint him as an uncaring Neanderthal that only cares about $$$. Now, as we get deeper into the economic collapse, our leadership (not health "experts") should start stepping back from the panic and look at the BIG PICTURE as you state above.
The focus should start to shift to ending the shutdown, and planning for what we do in a FUNCTIONING SOCIETY to allow the Virus to abate.
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I've believed all along the area under the curve is constant, just a matter of rate.
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I've believed all along the area under the curve is constant, just a matter of rate.
Unless means of effectively neurralizing the virus is discovered in the nick of time.
Of course, President Trump has been preventing that from happening.
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I suspect the hope has been to flatten the curve until summer can start wiping the virus out. Seems like a sound strategy. Like I keep saying, the problem is once we get the all clear the damn thing can ramp up again and cause havoc. Maybe some of this porphyrin stuff will pan out or some other treatment will come available so everyone doesn't get hit like a Mack truck by this stuff. Otherwise the only end I can see is mass vaccinations, and they're a long way off.
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I suspect the hope has been to flatten the curve until summer can start wiping the virus out. Seems like a sound strategy. Like I keep saying, the problem is once we get the all clear the damn thing can ramp up again and cause havoc. Maybe some of this porphyrin stuff will pan out or some other treatment will come available so everyone doesn't get hit like a Mack truck by this stuff. Otherwise the only end I can see is mass vaccinations, and they're a long way off.
I think that is correct, but even so, that varies with location. “Summer” is starting pretty much right now here in south Texas, but in middle areas it doesn’t really get hot til May or June. Maybe even later in the northernmost states. But if we keep everything shut down til the end of May I think we will double or triple the amount of economic damage from if we had opened at the end of April.
The other end to it is the virus burns through the population and we all either die or become immune. Then a vaccine will be superfluous. If effective treatments are found it should greatly reduce the death rate.
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The other end to it is the virus burns through the population and we all either die or become immune. Then a vaccine will be superfluous. If effective treatments are found it should greatly reduce the death rate.
What about newborns?
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So Rahm Emanuel's brother says we should stay locked down until there is a vaccine. I' sure there is no ulterior motive behind that.
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So Rahm Emanuel's brother says we should stay locked down until there is a vaccine. I' sure there is no ulterior motive behind that.
That’s why you don’t have academics lead the ordering of society.
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That’s why you don’t have academics lead the ordering of society.
Funny thing about these leftist progressive academics. Most of them have NEVER held a job outside of academia. Their entire life centers around a theoretical world, not the actual world, the "bubble" as we say.
Yet they see themselves far more intelligent than others, and ridicule those that disagree.
Hmmmmmm.......................sounds familiar somehow....
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What about newborns?
That's what mother's milk is for.
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What about newborns?
If most everyone else is immune the virus won’t be around to infect newborns.
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That's what mother's milk is for.
True as long as you nurse which unfortunately most mothers don’t as long as would be ideal.
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https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/04/08/death-model-reduced-90-since-we-heard-2-2-million/
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I'm curious why Jim Acosta is suddenly showing fairly normal behavior in these briefings?
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I'm curious why Jim Acosta is suddenly showing fairly normal behavior in these briefings?
It should be a clue that the LEFT is getting their way.
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https://www.ksbw.com/article/new-study-investigates-californias-possible-herd-immunity-to-covid-19/32073873#
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https://www.ksbw.com/article/new-study-investigates-californias-possible-herd-immunity-to-covid-19/32073873#
wait, I thought the professor was blaming President Trump for not having an antibody test.
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Honestly, I believe this article is on to something. Notice how certain areas of the country aren't being hit as hard? And no, it's not due to "social distancing". This thing has been around 3 months or better before the panic set in here. And we live in a world of high speed international travel.
I was sick in February, as were my wife and son. And our symptoms mirror the virus exactly. I think more people had had this, or been infected than we realize.
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Honestly, I believe this article is on to something. Notice how certain areas of the country aren't being hit as hard? And no, it's not due to "social distancing". This thing has been around 3 months or better before the panic set in here. And we live in a world of high speed international travel.
I was sick in February, as were my wife and son. And our symptoms mirror the virus exactly. I think more people had had this, or been infected than we realize.
Given that States are counting anyone who has the virus at the time of death as a COVID-19 death and the very real possibility that the number of people infected with COVID-19 is much larger than being reported, it is likely the COVID-19 fatality rate is much lower than feared.
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https://www.ksbw.com/article/new-study-investigates-californias-possible-herd-immunity-to-covid-19/32073873#
This theory has been out for a while and seems to be getting little attention in the press. Do you realize if this turns out to be correct, that we have destroyed our economy for nothing? The CDC/NIAID haven’t said a thing to my knowledge about this and no wonder, it shows that maybe there is a better way to deal with this than their social distancing recommendations, it would show that they have no clue what they’re doing, because by their own admission this method of handling pandemics has never been done before, which means the human race has been dealing with viral pandemics for eons and all they ever do is make us stronger. What their social distancing is actually doing is delaying herd immunity and hence will be the direct cause of the dreaded “second wave” being much worse than it would have been if we had let the virus run its natural course.
It’s not worth it, not for a .5 % death rate (which we know it is from the Diamond Princess study) and possibly damaging the healthcare system temporarily. It’s not worth bringing the entire economy to its knees, destroying the livelihood of millions and doing untold psychological and social damage. The business handshake is probably defunct. Now mask wearing will become the norm every flu season. This interferes with human body language (detecting facial expressions); essentially this is mass hypochondria we are baking into our relationships.
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This theory has been out for a while and seems to be getting little attention in the press. Do you realize if this turns out to be correct, that we have destroyed our economy for nothing? The CDC/NIAID haven’t said a thing to my knowledge about this and no wonder, it shows that maybe there is a better way to deal with this than their social distancing recommendations, it would show that they have no clue what they’re doing, because by their own admission this method of handling pandemics has never been done before, which means the human race has been dealing with viral pandemics for eons and all they ever do is make us stronger. What their social distancing is actually doing is delaying herd immunity and hence will be the direct cause of the dreaded “second wave” being much worse than it would have been if we had let the virus run its natural course.
It’s not worth it, not for a .5 % death rate (which we know it is from the Diamond Princess study) and possibly damaging the healthcare system temporarily. It’s not worth bringing the entire economy to its knees, destroying the livelihood of millions and doing untold psychological and social damage. The business handshake is probably defunct. Now mask wearing will become the norm every flu season. This interferes with human body language (detecting facial expressions); essentially this is mass hypochondria we are baking into our relationships.
At least now some people can realize that we need better ways to deal with pandemics. The lessons-learned will likely be drowned out by the partisan BS (cough TDS cough), but we can hope that some sanity will prevail.
wrt wearing masks during flu season: I doubt it. Even now when I mention the discrepancy between our reaction to COVID-19 and the flu, I see people rolling their eyes.
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This theory has been out for a while and seems to be getting little attention in the press. Do you realize if this turns out to be correct, that we have destroyed our economy for nothing? The CDC/NIAID haven’t said a thing to my knowledge about this and no wonder, it shows that maybe there is a better way to deal with this than their social distancing recommendations, it would show that they have no clue what they’re doing, because by their own admission this method of handling pandemics has never been done before, which means the human race has been dealing with viral pandemics for eons and all they ever do is make us stronger. What their social distancing is actually doing is delaying herd immunity and hence will be the direct cause of the dreaded “second wave” being much worse than it would have been if we had let the virus run its natural course.
It’s not worth it, not for a .5 % death rate (which we know it is from the Diamond Princess study) and possibly damaging the healthcare system temporarily. It’s not worth bringing the entire economy to its knees, destroying the livelihood of millions and doing untold psychological and social damage. The business handshake is probably defunct. Now mask wearing will become the norm every flu season. This interferes with human body language (detecting facial expressions); essentially this is mass hypochondria we are baking into our relationships.
Hence, as it appears, we have once again been duped with yet another hoax led by the progressive left and the deep state.
In reality we do not know how many actual deaths have been caused by this virus as the CDC has been requiring doctors to skew the numbers (report all deaths as Covid19 when in doubt), Italy and other countries were doing the same. And remember, the IHME models in which the government relied have now been shown as basically inept and no where near correct. Also remember those models factored in social distancing.
The icing on the cake are the resultants that the progressive left gained considerable ground at our expense, and those world powers that despise the USA are all gloating.
What a fucking mess. Mark my word, there's a reckoning coming.
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Once again, truth to the land of the ignorant. No one wants mass casualties from COVID19, but that hasn't been the real driver. The problem with the virus is it's extremely infectious and produces severe disease needing treatment about 20% of the time. If we just let it go it'll quickly swamp our medical facilities. At that point lots of folks are login to die.
So we flatten the curve. Hopefully warm wx does this thing in and gives us some breathing room. It's being transmitted like wildfire where people are the densest, and not moving where people are thin. It'll keep acting that way unless if finds itself and animal reservoir. We have bats here, after all.
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Once again, truth to the land of the ignorant. No one wants mass casualties from COVID19, but that hasn't been the real driver. The problem with the virus is it's extremely infectious and produces severe disease needing treatment about 20% of the time. If we just let it go it'll quickly swamp our medical facilities. At that point lots of folks are login to die.
So we flatten the curve. Hopefully warm wx does this thing in and gives us some breathing room. It's being transmitted like wildfire where people are the densest, and not moving where people are thin. It'll keep acting that way unless if finds itself and animal reservoir. We have bats here, after all.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QkR0NS30aawH6/giphy.gif)
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This theory has been out for a while and seems to be getting little attention in the press. Do you realize if this turns out to be correct, that we have destroyed our economy for nothing? The CDC/NIAID haven’t said a thing to my knowledge about this and no wonder, it shows that maybe there is a better way to deal with this than their social distancing recommendations, it would show that they have no clue what they’re doing, because by their own admission this method of handling pandemics has never been done before, which means the human race has been dealing with viral pandemics for eons and all they ever do is make us stronger. What their social distancing is actually doing is delaying herd immunity and hence will be the direct cause of the dreaded “second wave” being much worse than it would have been if we had let the virus run its natural course.
It’s not worth it, not for a .5 % death rate (which we know it is from the Diamond Princess study) and possibly damaging the healthcare system temporarily. It’s not worth bringing the entire economy to its knees, destroying the livelihood of millions and doing untold psychological and social damage. The business handshake is probably defunct. Now mask wearing will become the norm every flu season. This interferes with human body language (detecting facial expressions); essentially this is mass hypochondria we are baking into our relationships.
Totally agree. I've thought all along maybe it was just the cynic in me to not go along with the hyped shutdown and economic collapse, but maybe there is evidence as well.
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Once again, truth to the land of the ignorant. No one wants mass casualties from COVID19, but that hasn't been the real driver. The problem with the virus is it's extremely infectious and produces severe disease needing treatment about 20% of the time. If we just let it go it'll quickly swamp our medical facilities. At that point lots of folks are login to die.
So we flatten the curve. Hopefully warm wx does this thing in and gives us some breathing room. It's being transmitted like wildfire where people are the densest, and not moving where people are thin. It'll keep acting that way unless if finds itself and animal reservoir. We have bats here, after all.
Yet our hospitals and hospital ships are EMPTY and they are laying people off as there are few patients and nothing for them to do. If your panic was true the elective procedures nobody is having would have been replaced by Chinese Virus patients, and don't give me the crap about flattening the curve.
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Once again, truth to the land of the ignorant. No one wants mass casualties from COVID19, but that hasn't been the real driver. The problem with the virus is it's extremely infectious and produces severe disease needing treatment about 20% of the time. If we just let it go it'll quickly swamp our medical facilities. At that point lots of folks are login to die.
So we flatten the curve. Hopefully warm wx does this thing in and gives us some breathing room. It's being transmitted like wildfire where people are the densest, and not moving where people are thin. It'll keep acting that way unless if finds itself and animal reservoir. We have bats here, after all.
20% of the cases known. But on the Diamond Princess, half those that tested positive had no symptoms. That means the actual severe disease rate is only 10% if I guessed my math right without getting out pen and paper.
So far the only medical facilities that have been swamped are in a few big cities. Everywhere else is the reverse. ER waiting rooms are near empty, outpatient surgery centers have closed doors and laid off nurses, private practitioners are seeing visits way down and are in financial danger. This is catastrophic for rural doctors who don’t exactly rake in the big bucks if you didn’t know.
Paradoxically this is starving a majority of healthcare services of business while swamping only a few, and in the long run this could exacerbate the already scarce healthcare services out in rural areas and they may never recover.
It’s true we don’t know what the impact would have been if we hadn’t shut down the country. Possibly the rural hospitals would also have been overwhelmed with cases. I await facts when this is all over with and really hope they include the whole picture, but I fear they will continue being along the lines of Fauci and Birx congratulating themselves on how well it all worked while leaving out the horrific costs caused by the lockdown.
And guys, don’t mock Michael for the bat reference, he is right. But in my opinion all the more reason to get everyone exposed and immune ASAP, except the old and compromised. On the other hand this thing could mutate. On the other other hand if it does we would probably still have partial immunity. On the triple other hand we won’t if we don’t go ahead and get herd immunity. And anyway we face this all the time with influenza. Are we going to go into lockdown now with every new influenza strain that comes along?
Birx acted just a bit too gleeful talking about the lockdown being a “new tool” we are only just using for the first time. Much implication there it will be used again!
But the most frightening thing to me is Pence’s excitement over taking over resources with military efficiency. He’s setting a strong precedent. This is something that was intended for homeland invasion scenarios, not a disease with a wimpy death rate, relatively speaking, and the precedent is that the federal government will use any lukewarm excuse to take control of any supply chain it deems “essential”. It doesn’t matter that I like Trump/Pence or even if I approve of them doing this. Once the precedent is in place, any future right wing or left wing dictator wannabe will use it against the people to control the people, not to help or save them.
It’s exactly what happened after 9/11 when Bush expanded the NSA’s data collection powers over U.S. citizens. “Oh we will only use it to catch terrorists,” but in less than two decades it was used by one party to try to damage a political opponent of the other party. I predicted that would happen and I’m no psychic, anyone with common sense and a knowledge of history could see that coming, and now I am getting the same spidey sense about Pence and his logistics control, and for that matter about Birx and her “contact tracing with the help of google”.
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THIS ISN'T ANTRHAX!!!
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Honestly, I believe this article is on to something. Notice how certain areas of the country aren't being hit as hard? And no, it's not due to "social distancing". This thing has been around 3 months or better before the panic set in here. And we live in a world of high speed international travel.
I was sick in February, as were my wife and son. And our symptoms mirror the virus exactly. I think more people had had this, or been infected than we realize.
I agree, and further, I think the social distancing measures will prove to be more damaging and lead to more deaths LP NY term than would have been experienced had we gone on with life.
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https://www.thecollegefix.com/university-researchers-find-no-additional-decline-in-coronavirus-infection-rate-from-lockdowns/
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https://www.thecollegefix.com/university-researchers-find-no-additional-decline-in-coronavirus-infection-rate-from-lockdowns/
That's because President Trump didn't do anything soon enough.
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I agree, and further, I think the social distancing measures will prove to be more damaging and lead to more deaths LP NY term than would have been experienced had we gone on with life.
It will be centuries before historians accurately report that.
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How can he make so much sense and yet still be such a fuckwad?
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How can he make so much sense and yet still be such a fuckwad?
I don’t like the guy, but he’s not ignorant either.
He can, and does on occasion make some interesting observations. And while he’s full on liberal, he can make an argument using facts.
Notice he didn’t start off calling everyone childish names, and he didn’t start reciting his resume, or some lame diatribe about how much smarter he is than everyone else? Also, he doesn’t pepper his opinion with inflammatory rhetoric to belittle or mock the listener.
If only one of our drive by contributors here could learn from this, others might be willing to hear him out.
I know, wishful thinking.
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I've seen Bill Maher early in his career on sitcoms like "Alice" and "Roseanne".
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Never paid attention to Bill Maher’s age - just noticed he was born 5 days after me.
He seems to hold a mix of libertarian and socialist views - not a consistent philosophy. So sometimes he says something sensible and sometimes I think WTF. (I don’t otherwise watch or pay attention to comedians or talking heads unless someone brings them to me attention.)
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Never paid attention to Bill Maher’s age - just noticed he was born 5 days after me.
He seems to hold a mix of libertarian and socialist views - not a consistent philosophy. So sometimes he says something sensible and sometimes I think WTF. (I don’t otherwise watch or pay attention to comedians or talking heads unless someone brings them to me attention.)
Years ago I would watch his show and almost liked him, he seemed libertarian but then he seemed to go more left, socialist, or maybe it was just my perception changed. At any rate, I will never forgive him for wishing a recession on us. He is indelibly associated with this horrific pandemic economic collapse. I know his wish didn't cause it, but to me, it's as if it did.
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Notice the statue of Mao Tse-tung over his shoulder?
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Years ago I would watch his show and almost liked him, he seemed libertarian but then he seemed to go more left, socialist, or maybe it was just my perception changed. At any rate, I will never forgive him for wishing a recession on us. He is indelibly associated with this horrific pandemic economic collapse. I know his wish didn't cause it, but to me, it's as if it did.
He is a leftist. He uses his feelings over critical thought, so changing his mind is like changing his underwear.
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Notice the statue of Mao Tse-tung over his shoulder?
I saw that. Didn't really get why it was there.
As far as what he was saying, completely agree about the PC insanity over "Chinese" virus, and he makes a point about China not banning wet markets, although I'm unsure if I agree an authoritarian government should dictate what people can and cannot eat. Viruses arise in pigs too after all. But generally a well thought out commentary. He's still an asshole.
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He is a leftist. He uses his feelings over critical thought, so changing his mind is like changing his underwear.
Bingo!!!
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I do give him credit that he will debate others without resorting to the liberal shout them down dialogue.
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I do give him credit that he will debate others without resorting to the liberal shout them down dialogue.
Agree.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/
The BSL-4 lab in Wuhan was identified in 2018 as having serious safety and management issues. Matched with the fact that the strain of coronavirus has not been identified in a natural bat population, the lab has to be considered a viable source. To my eyes, it is the most viable source.
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This seems the most appropriate thread for this video (didn't see the need for a new one.)
At around 2:40 into the video the response of the WHO epidemiologist is about as telling as it gets.
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This morning, Fox is claiming to have the evidence to support that this virus came from the lab. Developing story
Perhaps the biggest pieces of evidence against the 'wet market' theory - the first cases had no connections to the wet market AND the market does not sell bats.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources
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See... trump should have known that the WHO was completely corrupt and gone full court press on developing tests, treatments, and vaccines. trump should instituted CURTAIN CALL and SOLITARY and should have brought in Abby Sciuto to get this stuff done.
ok, President Trump really shouldn't have trusted the WHO and definitely shouldn't trust the Chinese government.
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But the perfesser says anything from Fox is a lie, and that the virus most definitely came from bushmeat being consumed.
And something about how innocent the Chinese are in their Wuhan lab because he thinks one of his students came from Wuhan.
Or something like that..................
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To me the WHO is just another United Nations. Anti American, Progressive, and Globalist. We need to get out of both or at least reduce our funding.
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To me the WHO is just another United Nations. Anti American, Progressive, and Globalist. We need to get out of both or at least reduce our funding.
Can't like this enough
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This morning, Fox is claiming to have the evidence to support that this virus came from the lab. Developing story
Perhaps the biggest pieces of evidence against the 'wet market' theory - the first cases had no connections to the wet market AND the market does not sell bats.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources
Was first transmitted to a human in the lab, not created by the lab. If they get bats the way we get monkeys, the animals are captured in the wild in the forests by non-scientist trappers and sold to the labs, which means they come from any number of untracked populations and it is very plausible the virus originated in one of these populations, and not at all surprising it wouldn’t have been detected.
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Was first transmitted to a human in the lab, not created by the lab. If they get bats the way we get monkeys, the animals are captured in the wild in the forests by non-scientist trappers and sold to the labs, which means they come from any number of untracked populations and it is very plausible the virus originated in one of these populations, and not at all surprising it wouldn’t have been detected.
An accidental release from a lab has always been a possibility. Research on viruses, phages in particular, was critical in developing an understanding of molecular biology and they are still studied today for basic research purposes. There was never any point to positing bioweapons development.
As to evidence of an accidental release, I recall seeing mention of the following paper (a preprint - don’t know if it was ever published) a few weeks back but never tried to locate it, thinking it was in Chinese:
https://chanworld.org/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/default_attachments/1581810860-447056518-Originsof2019-NCoV-XiaoB-Res.pdf (https://chanworld.org/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/default_attachments/1581810860-447056518-Originsof2019-NCoV-XiaoB-Res.pdf)
It is written by Chinese researchers who appear to have had access to local information. I’ll quote a fair amount of it here:
An article published on The Lancet reported that 41 people in Wuhan were found to have the acute respiratory syndrome and 27 of them had contact with Huanan Seafood Market . The 2019-nCoV was found in 33 out of 585 samples collected in the market after the outbreak. The market was suspicious to be the origin of the epidemic, and was shut down according to the rule of quarantine the source during an epidemic.
The bats carrying CoV ZC45 were originally found in Yunnan or Zhejiang province, both of which were more than 900 kilometers away from the seafood market. Bats were normally found to live in caves and trees. But the seafood market is in a densely-populated district of Wuhan, a metropolitan of ~15 million people. The probability was very low for the bats to fly to the market. According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market. There was possible natural recombination or intermediate host of the coronavirus, yet little proof has been reported.
Was there any other possible pathway? We screened the area around the seafood market and identified two laboratories conducting research on bat coronavirus. Within ~280 meters from the market, there was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control & Prevention (WHCDC) (Figure 1, from Baidu and Google maps). WHCDC hosted animals in laboratories for research purpose, one of which was specialized in pathogens collection and identification 4- 6. In one of their studies, 155 bats including Rhinolophus affinis were captured in Hubei province, and other 450 bats were captured in Zhejiang province 4. The expert in collection was noted in the Author Contributions (JHT). Moreover, he was broadcasted for collecting viruses on nation-wide newspapers and websites in 2017 and 2019. He described that he was once by attacked by bats and the blood of a bat shot on his skin. He knew the extreme danger of the infections so he quarantined himself for 14 days. In another accident he quarantined himself again because bats peed on him. He was once thrilled for capturing a bat carrying a live tick.
Surgery was performed on the caged animals and the tissue samples were collected for DNA and RNA extraction and sequencing. The tissue samples and contaminated trashes were source of pathogens. They were only ~280 meters from the seafood market. The WHCDC was also adjacent to the Union Hospital (Figure 1, bottom) where the first group of doctors were infected during this epidemic. It is plausible that the virus leaked around and some of them contaminated the initial patients in this epidemic, though solid proofs are needed in future study.
The second laboratory was ~12 kilometers from the seafood market and belonged to Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences. This laboratory reported that the Chinese horseshoe bats were natural reservoirs for the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) which caused the 2002-3 pandemic.
The principle investigator participated in a project which generated a chimeric virus using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system, and reported the potential for human emergence. A direct speculation was that SARS-CoV or its derivative might leak from the laboratory.
In summary, somebody was entangled with the evolution of 2019-nCoV coronavirus. In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan. Safety level may need to be reinforced in high risk biohazardous laboratories. Regulations may be taken to relocate these laboratories far away from city center and other densely populated places.
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An accidental release from a lab has always been a possibility. Research on viruses, phages in particular, was critical in developing an understanding of molecular biology and they are still studied today for basic research purposes. There was never any point to positing bioweapons development.
As to evidence of an accidental release, I recall seeing mention of the following paper (a preprint - don’t know if it was ever published) a few weeks back but never tried to locate it, thinking it was in Chinese:
https://chanworld.org/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/default_attachments/1581810860-447056518-Originsof2019-NCoV-XiaoB-Res.pdf (https://chanworld.org/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/default_attachments/1581810860-447056518-Originsof2019-NCoV-XiaoB-Res.pdf)
It is written by Chinese researchers who appear to have had access to local information. I’ll quote a fair amount of it here:
That’s the paper I linked in reply 20 in this thread and the same one referred to in the video in post 1. We have known this for weeks, looks like mainstream media is finally starting to catch up.
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That’s the paper I linked in reply 20 in this thread and the same one referred to in the video in post 1. We have known this for weeks, looks like mainstream media is finally starting to catch up.
Gah! I normally follow links you and others post - not sure how I missed that one. Sorry about that!
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Gah! I normally follow links you and others post - not sure how I missed that one. Sorry about that!
It was two weeks and 10 pages ago, you are forgiven. ;D
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This virus has surprised me in more ways than one. I still think it came from bush meat, but it is very plausible that the PIs in Wuhan were studying the chiropteran viruses due to their involvement in SARS. That is a very reasonable etiology, one I hadn't considered. Improper handling of specimens can certainly result in viral transmission. Of course, the discarded research subjects could have found their way to the suspect market. I'd not rule it out. Here biological samples are burned promptly. I have strong doubts that biosecurity is taken as seriously in China.
That said, an accidental lab release is a long way from an escaped bioweapon.
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(https://i2.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/me12.jpg?w=860&ssl=1)
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(https://i2.wp.com/hardnoxandfriends.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/a-gil15-1.jpg?resize=1024%2C556&ssl=1)
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https://spectator.us/stanford-study-suggests-coronavirus-more-widespread-realized/
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China is lying about the number of deaths and the President is calling them out on it.
The president also challenged China’s death toll, noting that news reports were uncritically saying that the United States had the most coronavirus deaths in the world.
“We don’t have the most in the world deaths, the most in the world has to be China, it’s a massive country, it’s gone through a tremendous problem with this,” Trump said. “They must have the most.”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/17/donald-trump-vows-to-investigate-wuhan-lab-coronavirus-bats/
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China is lying about the number of deaths and the President is calling them out on it.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/17/donald-trump-vows-to-investigate-wuhan-lab-coronavirus-bats/
Today's newspaper has an article about mainland China upping their number of COVID-19 deaths... and of course the Chinese government is making excuses ...
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Today's newspaper has an article about mainland China upping their number of COVID-19 deaths... and of course the Chinese government is making excuses ...
Also, the MEDIA is not publishing Per Capita numbers but aggregate numbers. They are not taking into consideration our large population when they talk about the number of cases and the number of deaths.