Post by: Jim Logajan on September 15, 2020, 10:50:04 AM
Quote
Population-wide lockdown orders are "such a dramatic inversion of the concept of liberty in a free society as to be nearly presumptively unconstitutional" wrote U.S. District Judge William Stickman IV.https://reason.com/2020/09/14/federal-court-rules-pennsylvanias-lockdown-order-unconstitutional/ (https://reason.com/2020/09/14/federal-court-rules-pennsylvanias-lockdown-order-unconstitutional/)
[...]
A federal judge on Monday has ruled that lockdown restrictions imposed by Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf (D), including a ban on large gatherings and the closure of "non-life sustaining businesses," are unconstitutional.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 15, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
Post by: Number7 on September 15, 2020, 11:28:55 AM
Post by: nddons on September 15, 2020, 11:32:58 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 15, 2020, 01:54:58 PM
Post by: Anthony on September 15, 2020, 02:13:09 PM
Anthony’s going to party like it’s 2019!
Well I doubt anything will change because all the sheeple at least in my area are totally on board. Maybe Wolf won't be able to bully the businesses that still can't let people in any longer. He's as bad as Whitmer.
Post by: Lucifer on September 15, 2020, 02:40:59 PM
The professor already weighed on theaters over on the PB. I spoke about how people are not going back to the theaters and worried about their survival, the professor said f them, don't care if they survive.
Hmmmm, quite a bit different attitude from this:
Most of you are old enough for the virus to set up a major infection. That was more a plea. Covid can lay you out and can destroy your health on an ongoing basis. I honestly don't want to see that happen to any of you. So please mask up and keep your distance.
Post by: nddons on September 15, 2020, 02:46:52 PM
Hmmmm, quite a bit different attitude from this:I think that means that Steingar loves us more then he loves them.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 15, 2020, 02:51:55 PM
Hmmmm, quite a bit different attitude from this:
POS speak with forked tongue.
Post by: Number7 on September 15, 2020, 06:23:45 PM
The professor already weighed on theaters over on the PB. I spoke about how people are not going back to the theaters and worried about their survival, the professor said f them, don't care if they survive.
Yep. But you didn't mention President Trump, or Trump Appointed adjudged, which would set his silliness off like a Roman candle.
Post by: Anthony on September 16, 2020, 09:28:20 AM
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 16, 2020, 05:24:17 PM
Governor Wolf (the White Obama) is appealing the ruling. Nothing will change. It is a freak show here and many people are just brainwashed idiots.
Yep. voting with my feet and heading south in 10 days; F Wolf, his freakish "health director", the useless Republicans in the state legislature, the complicit (D) judges, and the fookers who voted in the damned democrats in the first place.
Post by: Mr Pou on September 17, 2020, 05:53:16 AM
Yep. voting with my feet and heading south in 10 days; F Wolf, his freakish "health director", the useless Republicans in the state legislature, the complicit (D) judges, and the fookers who voted in the damned democrats in the first place.
I left the northeast decades ago, never going back. What a mess.
Post by: Rush on September 17, 2020, 06:22:16 AM
Post by: Anthony on September 17, 2020, 06:25:17 AM
My brother in law in Raleigh NC said there are so many New York plates driving around now. Presumably moving down because of COVID shutdown and riots. So they’re leaving the Democrat created hell and gonna come vote Democrat and ruin NC.
I see them in PA also, because it is closer, lower tax, and lower costs for housing and other items. All vote Democrat and have changed Chester County to all Democrat. It is a sin. I am not long for this area, and will move back West at some point but not back to Colorado, probably Wyoming or South Dakota so I can start stalking Christi Noem. :)
Post by: Mr Pou on September 17, 2020, 07:06:31 AM
My brother in law in Raleigh NC said there are so many New York plates driving around now. Presumably moving down because of COVID shutdown and riots. So they’re leaving the Democrat created hell and gonna come vote Democrat and ruin NC.
They've already ruined Maryland and Virginia, the yankees are just moving down the coast. And Florida is pretty much screwed as well.
I love how people move away from somewhere to escape something, and then proceed to FUBAR the new place. (California/west coast->Colorado, New York/Mass->Florida/Virginia)
Post by: Steingar on September 17, 2020, 08:34:14 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 17, 2020, 08:52:39 AM
Sadly, I suspect the judge is correct. Lockdown orders do violate freedom of assembly and a few other things. If that means the government is powerless to fight the outbreak of disease I feel really badly for us as a nation.
Government is not powerless to fight an outbreak. That's never been alleged.
However, government does not have the right to suspend the constitution at will. The problem being experienced is the government has not applied the law in a fair and equatable manner.
Examples: In Las Vegas a casino (indoor operation) can have 50% occupancy, however churches are only allowed 10%.
In Texas, bars are forbidden to open, but a restaurant that has a bar is permitted to serve. Also in Texas, a water park is allowed to have guest, but the local river, the tubing operators are closed down.
In California the government is allowed to open their gyms, but private owners are not.
The list goes on and on.
The other problem lies in the governors and mayors. They are creating laws under the executive and bypassing the legislative process. This is forbidden in the US constitution and state constitutions.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 17, 2020, 09:28:31 AM
Sadly, I suspect the judge is correct. Lockdown orders do violate freedom of assembly and a few other things. If that means the government is powerless to fight the outbreak of disease I feel really badly for us as a nation.
You claim to be a smart guy... can't you think of anything the Government can do without a lockdown?
Post by: Number7 on September 17, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
I feel really badly for us as a nation.
...due to the rank political agenda of the educational (communist) community.
Post by: Steingar on September 17, 2020, 11:53:40 AM
You claim to be a smart guy... can't you think of anything the Government can do without a lockdown?
Honestly, I can't think of a thing that doesn't violate the Constitution's prohibitions concerning freedom of assembly and freedom of expression. I never thought any of this was constitutional, I just was hoping it'd get a judicial pass, sort of like police DUI checkpoints. Dead folks have the greatest liberty, but I don't think we really want to go down that road. This won't be the last bad virus to set up shop in humans, I promise you. If our precedent is that our leaders are powerless to act, we could wind up with some serious catastrophes in the future.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 17, 2020, 01:20:46 PM
nah... much more fun to lock every up
Post by: Lucifer on September 17, 2020, 01:29:30 PM
If our precedent is that our leaders are powerless to act, we could wind up with some serious catastrophes in the future.
"Powerless to act". :o
Ever opened a history book? Ever read about what led up to the declaration of Independence and the Constitution? Do you even understand the concept that our rights are not derived from government? Do you understand why there are checks and balances built into the constitution?
Post by: Steingar on September 17, 2020, 02:57:13 PM
"Powerless to act". :o
Ever opened a history book? Ever read about what led up to the declaration of Independence and the Constitution? Do you even understand the concept that our rights are not derived from government? Do you understand why there are checks and balances built into the constitution?
Sadly. Lots of people are idiots like you and can’t figure out that they should take the steps suggested by the medical community to stop the spread of infectious disease. They need the government to force them to do so. In the future I think the government will be unable to do so, and disease will spread. The Founders didn’t know about the germ theory of disease, and didn't know what viruses were. Had they I suspect they’d have written things a bit differently.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 17, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 17, 2020, 03:12:20 PM
Sadly. Lots of people are idiots like you and can’t figure out that they should take the steps suggested by the medical community to stop the spread of infectious disease. They need the government to force them to do so. In the future I think the government will be unable to do so, and disease will spread. The Founders didn’t know about the germ theory of disease, and dish%to know what viruses were. Had they I suspect they’d have written things a bit differently.
And you call me an idiot? ::)
So, where do you draw the line? Our founders were brilliant men. Have you actually read their bios, or even read the federalist papers? Have you ever actually read about the debates that went on during the drafting of the constitution?
Apparently not. The LAST thing we need in our republic is a government that has the power to force anyone to do something against their will. That's NOT the function of government.
(and to be fair, there is a whole 'nother thread and debate on abuse of power of the government)
Seeing the carnage we have witnesses now and over the past six months brought on by "government", these are the last people we need to be dictating anything.
Post by: Anthony on September 17, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Sadly. Lots of people are idiots like you and can’t figure out that they should take the steps suggested by the medical community to stop the spread of infectious disease. They need the government to force them to do so. In the future I think the government will be unable to do so, and disease will spread. The Founders didn’t know about the germ theory of disease, and dish%to know what viruses were. Had they I suspect they’d have written things a bit differently.
The founders didn't know about the internet, so should we not have free speech? I think you are one of the most clueless people I know.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 17, 2020, 03:55:57 PM
The founders didn't know about the internet, so should we not have free speech? I think you are one of the most clueless people I know.
aw, we can come up with some that are more clueless.
- the fish that shall not be named
- the sim troll on usenet
- John splats Tarver
- the long island looney bird
or are you not old enough to know those?
Post by: Anthony on September 17, 2020, 04:36:06 PM
aw, we can come up with some that are more clueless.
- the fish that shall not be named
- the sim troll on usenet
- John splats Tarver
- the long island looney bird
or are you not old enough to know those?
No, I'm not. I'm one of the younger guys at the airport which resembles the Home. ;D
Post by: Steingar on September 17, 2020, 05:08:07 PM
The founders didn't know about the internet, so should we not have free speech? I think you are one of the most clueless people I know.The Founders know all about the media, which included newspapers as the time. The internet is nothing more than an extension of what they had at the time. I think had they known that the government could stop the spread of plagues they might have thought about things differently. Personally, I think your much vaunted freedom ends where you can transmit a potentially lethal disease to me, and I suspect the founders might have thought likewise. And YOU are the most clueless fellow I know. While my spouse likes you, I suspect she'd agree.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 17, 2020, 05:22:01 PM
The Founders didn’t know about the germ theory of disease, and didn't know what viruses were. Had they I suspect they’d have written things a bit differently.
Actually the founders were aware that some diseases were highly contagious and actually would sometimes quarantine people who were sick with them. Furthermore, George Washington performed mass inoculation of his troops against small pox. This despite the germ theory being not widely accepted yet. For those interested in how the founding fathers (Washington in particular) dealt with small pox that ravaged his army there is this article:
https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-george-washington-revolutionary-war (https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-george-washington-revolutionary-war)
They knew of and used quarantines (and that they had their limitations) and the existence of vaccination even if they didn’t understand how it works.
Post by: Lucifer on September 17, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
The Founders know all about the media, which included newspapers as the time. The internet is nothing more than an extension of what they had at the time. I think had they known that the government could stop the spread of plagues they might have thought about things differently. Personally, I think your much vaunted freedom ends where you can transmit a potentially lethal disease to me, and I suspect the founders might have thought likewise. And YOU are the most clueless fellow I know. While my spouse likes you, I suspect she'd agree.
Your ignorance is astounding. You can “suspect” all you want, but you’ve never once cracked a book open or even read one line of history when it comes to the constitution.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 17, 2020, 05:46:23 PM
No, I'm not. I'm one of the younger guys at the airport which resembles the Home. ;D
darn snot-nosed kids (>-{
Post by: Rush on September 18, 2020, 02:27:34 AM
The Founders know all about the media, which included newspapers as the time. The internet is nothing more than an extension of what they had at the time. I think had they known that the government could stop the spread of plagues they might have thought about things differently. Personally, I think your much vaunted freedom ends where you can transmit a potentially lethal disease to me, and I suspect the founders might have thought likewise. And YOU are the most clueless fellow I know. While my spouse likes you, I suspect she'd agree.
There’s a legal concept where the government may take your rights for a compelling reason. On one end of the spectrum say there’s a disease with a 99.5% fatality rate. Most people here would agree that would justify forcibly limiting rights. The reason would be compelling. On the other end we have diseases with less than 0.5% fatality that no one, ever, has thought justifies taking away our rights. Not compelling enough. Until Covid?
This would be more rational if we were discussing something with a fatality somewhere between these extremes and that would be a good question: who gets to decide what number is the magic cutoff? Apparently now some think it should be zero. That opens the door to the government controlling every detail of all our lives. Drive yourself to the grocery store, you put other people on the road at risk. The government should control when and how often you drive somewhere.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 18, 2020, 04:40:46 AM
covid-19
and
needle sharing
Post by: nddons on September 18, 2020, 11:36:15 AM
There’s a legal concept where the government may take your rights for a compelling reason. On one end of the spectrum say there’s a disease with a 99.5% fatality rate. Most people here would agree that would justify forcibly limiting rights. The reason would be compelling. On the other end we have diseases with less than 0.5% fatality that no one, ever, has thought justifies taking away our rights. Not compelling enough. Until Covid?Bingo.
This would be more rational if we were discussing something with a fatality somewhere between these extremes and that would be a good question: who gets to decide what number is the magic cutoff? Apparently now some think it should be zero. That opens the door to the government controlling every detail of all our lives. Drive yourself to the grocery store, you put other people on the road at risk. The government should control when and how often you drive somewhere.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 18, 2020, 11:40:54 AM
Post by: nddons on September 18, 2020, 12:38:50 PM
Look, there are tons of movies where the government locks things down and quarantines everyone, so it must be okay. 8)Exactly. In fact here’s one of the nice dormitories.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200918/c58a42331977653f4bf1ef1f6d1cba30.jpg)
Post by: Anthony on September 18, 2020, 02:02:17 PM
Exactly. In fact here’s one of the nice dormitories.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200918/c58a42331977653f4bf1ef1f6d1cba30.jpg)
That is most likely where we are going if the Far Left Radicals, whom are now the mainstream Democrat Party, win the Presidency and Congress.
Post by: nddons on September 18, 2020, 03:04:52 PM
That is most likely where we are going if the Far Left Radicals, whom are now the mainstream Democrat Party, win the Presidency and Congress.Throughout history, quarantine meant isolating the sick people. To my knowledge for the first time in history we have separated and isolated healthy people. All for a virus with a 99.5% survival rate.
That’s not quarantine. That’s tyranny.
Post by: Number7 on September 18, 2020, 07:04:50 PM
That is most likely where we are going if the Far Left Radicals, whom are now the mainstream Democrat Party, win the Presidency and Congress.
They can't win.
The country has to be stolen.
And they are trying with Everything they have.
Post by: Anthony on September 28, 2020, 08:21:37 AM
They can't win.
The country has to be stolen.
And they are trying with Everything they have.
I totally agree.