Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2020, 02:44:23 PM
In Stunning Reversal, CDC Says It Published New Guidance On Risks Of 'Airborne' COVID-19 "In Error"
Quote
After publishing guidance warning about the serious risks of "airborne" infection associated with SARS-CoV-2, the CDC just seriously harmed its own credibility by acknowledging Monday that it had posted the new guidance "in error", following a pressure campaign from the WHO.
Scientists have been gathering evidence that the novel coronavirus plaguing the world spreads via aerosol particles practically since it first emerged, and back in July, a group of 200 scientists sent a letter to the WHO urging the international public health agency to change its guidance on the spread of the disease. The problem scientists argued is that the WHO hasn't updated its views to incorporate new research showing that aerosol spread is a much greater threat than touching contaminated surfaces, or via large droplets spread by close contact between individuals.
Yet, the WHO has refused these overtures, and this week it successfully convinced the CDC to do the same.
After the WHO announced earlier that it had reached out to the CDC over the guidance change, the agency informed American media outlets that a "draft version" of the guidance had been "posted in error".
"A draft version of proposed changes to these recommendations was posted in error to the agency’s official website," the CDC said. "CDC is currently updating its recommendations regarding airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19). Once this process has been completed, the update language will be posted."
Even so, the American media has grown increasingly convinced that aerosols significantly contribute to overall spread of the virus, with ABC News suggesting yesterday that expensive UV-light powered surface cleaners were merely examples of "hygiene theater". For months, the CDC has insisted that these large droplets are the primary mode of transmission, which is why - it argued - people must wear masks in public, because masks are effective at blocking large particles.
However, masks - at least, homemade clothe masks with imperfect seals - aren't as effective at filtering all aerosol particles. Furthermore, research suggests aerosol particles released when a person sneezes can reach up to 26 feet.
Experts quoted in the US press reports are already slamming the CDC for injecting more confusion into the conversation surrounding COVID-19 prevention at a particularly risky time. After all, schools are still reopening across the US and many are diving headlong into the unknown, fearful that all of this activity could cause another wave of the pandemic, as Dr. Scott Gottlieb warned yesterday.
The FDA is already under fire for its allegedly "premature" approval of convalescent plasma, which critics claim is the result of untoward political pressure from the president. On Friday, the CDC also abandoned controversial guidance saying not everybody who comes into contact with an infected person needs to be tested, and that tests should only be required for those experiencing symptoms.
All this scrutiny is helping to cement a new nickname for the agency.
"Center for Damage Control"
Post by: jb1842 on September 21, 2020, 03:32:15 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 21, 2020, 04:14:06 PM
If only he had started development of a seriology test in Oct or Nov....
Post by: nddons on September 21, 2020, 06:52:40 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/stunning-reversal-cdc-says-it-published-new-guidance-risks-airborne-covid-19-errorI suspect the airborne risk thing was supposed to come out the 4th week of October, right before the election.
In Stunning Reversal, CDC Says It Published New Guidance On Risks Of 'Airborne' COVID-19 "In Error"
Post by: Anthony on September 22, 2020, 02:58:24 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2020, 06:00:22 AM
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases-deaths-continue-two-month-decline-officials-pledge
Quote
Numerous high-ranking public authorities throughout the United States have pledged to continue enforcing COVID-19 restrictions — including social distancing rules and mask mandates — even as cases of and deaths attributed to the virus continue a steady two-month decline throughout the country.
Those officials have signaled that the restrictions will not be lifted unless and until an effective vaccine is developed, approved, distributed throughout the country and utilized by enough of the population to create functional herd immunity.
The restrictions, which have become ubiquitous parts of American life since March, have included the mandatory use of face coverings when in public places (including outdoor locations in some jurisdictions) and the enforcement of "social distancing" rules to keep individuals at least six feet away from each other. The latter rules have been applied to businesses in the form of occupancy limits, with restaurants and other stores being required to cap their patron limit at 50% and even 25% in the case of many eat-in establishments.
.....................
White House coronavirus adviser Anthony Fauci has also repeatedly asserted that a vaccine is the only practical way by which normal life might resume in the U.S. Yet he said earlier this month that, even when a vaccine is developed, it could be over a year before people are permitted to resume their pre-COVID lives.
"If you're talking about getting back to a degree of normality which resembles where we were prior to Covid, it's going to be well into 2021, maybe even towards the end of 2021," he said.
Post by: Rush on September 22, 2020, 06:54:21 AM
The goal post keeps moving.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases-deaths-continue-two-month-decline-officials-pledge
Trump’s biggest misstep was going along with all of this. I know, at the time it seemed right. It was going to be two weeks to flatten a curve but it has metastasized wildly beyond what he foresaw - his mistake was to trust Fauci.
In retrospect he would have had less damage if he’d refused to go along with a shutdown and taken the heat for all the deaths. He is being blamed for them anyway!
Post by: Anthony on September 22, 2020, 06:59:47 AM
Quote
Those officials have signaled that the restrictions will not be lifted unless and until an effective vaccine is developed, approved, distributed throughout the country and utilized by enough of the population to create functional herd immunity.
The restrictions, which have become ubiquitous parts of American life since March, have included the mandatory use of face coverings when in public places (including outdoor locations in some jurisdictions) and the enforcement of "social distancing" rules to keep individuals at least six feet away from each other. The latter rules have been applied to businesses in the form of occupancy limits, with restaurants and other stores being required to cap their patron limit at 50% and even 25% in the case of many eat-in establishments.
The Democrats and Media are using this to take away Rights guaranteed by the Constitution. This is the biggest power grab and tyrannical over reach since the War of Northern Aggression. Along with mail in voting and other voter fraud they want to also steal the election and make these restrictions permanent for "the public good". The Cold civil war which has gotten warmer in big cities and elsewhere that we are witnessing is going to go hot.
Post by: Rush on September 22, 2020, 07:07:25 AM
The Democrats and Media are using this to take away Rights guaranteed by the Constitution. This is the biggest power grab and tyrannical over reach since the War of Northern Aggression. Along with mail in voting and other voter fraud they want to also steal the election and make these restrictions permanent for "the public good". The Cold civil war which has gotten warmer in big cities and elsewhere that we are witnessing is going to go hot.
Either a coup and/or a hot war after the election seems inevitable at this point.
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2020, 07:11:26 AM
The Democrats and Media are using this to take away Rights guaranteed by the Constitution. This is the biggest power grab and tyrannical over reach since the War of Northern Aggression. Along with mail in voting and other voter fraud they want to also steal the election and make these restrictions permanent for "the public good". The Cold civil war which has gotten warmer in big cities and elsewhere that we are witnessing is going to go hot.
The virus is the biggest dream come true for the progressives. They now have in their arsenal and playbook a way to bring the country to a halt, suspend rights and force the population into compliance with whatever they want. Pandora's box indeed.
They are not going to freely give up their newfound toy.
Post by: Anthony on September 22, 2020, 07:21:04 AM
The virus is the biggest dream come true for the progressives. They now have in their arsenal and playbook a way to bring the country to a halt, suspend rights and force the population into compliance with whatever they want. Pandora's box indeed.
They are not going to freely give up their newfound toy.
It has almost totally replaced man Made Climate Change as their way of taking control, although they still harp about it occasionally, the MEDIA (also the Democrats) is totally Virus Panic and Systemic Racism 24/7.
Post by: Anthony on September 22, 2020, 07:21:43 AM
Either a coup and/or a hot war after the election seems inevitable at this point.
Looks that way doesn't it.
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2020, 07:29:41 AM
It has almost totally replaced man Made Climate Change as their way of taking control, although they still harp about it occasionally, the MEDIA (also the Democrats) is totally Virus Panic and Systemic Racism 24/7.
Look at how many decades they have tried to use the climate hoax as their boogeyman. Never gained traction.
But yet the scamdemic shut down the economy in two weeks. And 6 months later they still have control, and will have for the next several months.
The vaccine will do little for covid, that's been admitted. Effective treatments have been shunned because it would end the scam quickly. We're being told " we can ease restrictions once a vaccine is in place and being administered". Yea right.
Just wait, flu season is upon us. The seasonal flu and CV19 will be conflated, and more restrictions and draconian rules are coming.
Post by: Anthony on September 22, 2020, 07:39:34 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 22, 2020, 07:47:54 AM
because TRUMP
sheesh. isn't it obvious?
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2020, 09:08:16 AM
Quote
It’s nothing new for political religions to produce radicals that develop their own sects or cults. This time around, rigid devotion to enforcing mask compliance has produced runaway fanaticism based on nothing but blind faith that more mask-wearing is always better. Even the public health experts, whom these followers all promoted as great prophets just months ago, can’t tame their fervor.
That’s a problem, because a return to normalcy will require subduing radical factions that agitate for oppression. Restrictions such as mask mandates are like oxygen to followers of radical fundamentalist Covidianism — the abiding belief that only lockdowns, social distancing, and masks can deliver us from the deadly pandemic. The longer mandates stay in place and experts continue promoting mask use — “My mask protects you! Your mask protects me!” — the stronger and more widespread the extremism will grow, and the less influence experts will have over their behavior.
The evidence is abundant, but consider these three cases of radical Covidianism and how they trace back to an abandonment of the scientific standards necessary to maintain public health and a functioning society.
1. Ignore the Dangers of Masking While Exercising
First, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer signed an executive order last week requiring all nonprofessional sports players to wear masks. Athletes, except for swimmers, must wear masks while “training for, practicing for, or competing in an organized sport” if they cannot “consistently maintain 6 feet of distance.” There are no age-specific exceptions in the requirement, so it appears Whitmer’s mask mandate for children five years old and over applies.
Not only does this order contradict guidance from so-called experts, who say that people exercising should not wear masks because sweat can clog the mask fibers and make breathing difficult as well as “promote the growth of microorganisms,” but it overwrites Whitmer’s own order specifying that masks do not have to be worn during exercise “when wearing a face covering would interfere with the activity.”
How football, basketball, tennis, soccer, lacrosse, and other sports that aren’t golf or bowling don’t qualify as exercise that a mask “would interfere with” is beyond rationality. The science of sweat droplets clogging up mask fibers doesn’t change if a person is exercising by himself or in a competitive setting, yet one can see in these orders the progression away from science and toward the fanatical desire to control people’s behavior, regardless of the danger. While Whitmer says masks allow sports to resume, her requirement will likely mean exactly the opposite, as playing creates a health risk instead of a health benefit.
2. Mask the Babies
Second, a WestJet flight was canceled last week because a 19-month-old could not keep her mask on, despite the fact that infants and toddlers simply aren’t spreading the virus. The father, Safwan Choudhry, called it “horrific and dehumanizing treatment.” You can see what appear to be WestJet crew members harassing the poor family here:
Transport Canada’s official guidance for travelers says explicitly, “The following people should not wear a mask … children under 2 years old.” Yet WestJest crew members, according to Choudhry, wrongly cited the guidance as requiring his infant to wear a mask. Official rules are apparently no hindrance to the mask crusaders, who will defend their universal masking standard to the point of canceling a flight.
3. Wear a Mask When You’re Alone
Not to be outdone in anti-science zeal for total conformity, however, the third example is the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, which has asked agency employees to wear masks while teleconferencing from home. Natural Resources Secretary Preston Cole said in a July 31 email that in order to set a “safety example” showing that employees “care about the safety and health of others,” they should wear a mask while participating in virtual meetings “that involve being seen.”
The medical director of infection control at UW Health, Nasia Safdar, told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that beyond protecting oneself from somebody else in the house with COVID-19, “there’s no reason to routinely wear a mask in your home if the risk isn’t there.”
This is what happens, however, when scientific standards are abandoned for political goals only loosely tied to public health: Pseudo-scientific fanaticism develops, and its followers are obsessed with gaining compliance, not saving lives. One can draw a straight line from the initial departure from scientific evidence on lockdowns to the current coronavirus extremism, which only increases in intensity as deaths and hospitalizations decline.
Mask Fanatics Are the Real Science Deniers
Lockdowns were once called an “unproven” hypothesis by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, its models of efficacy being invalidated by “empirical data.” The World Health Organization called forced isolation and quarantine “ineffective and impractical.” Yet despite the devastating effects of banning “nonessential” businesses and social activities, countries around the world locked down.
Groupthink on non-pharmaceutical interventions spurred an uncontrolled drift away from scientific justifications toward hasty generalized rules predicated on an “abundance of caution” and straight-up fear. Fear quickly turned into a tool for maintaining political power and an opportunity for self-righteous snitches to exercise control over their fellow countrymen. Snitch-level devotion to harsh government mandates devolved into a religion in its own right, and now we must suffer oppression not just from authorities, but from private companies and our fellow citizens.
One can draw numerous examples of Covidian jihad from any given week of these hellish past six months, but the progression is obvious. In April, a father was arrested for playing softball with his family in an open field in compliance with state orders. In July, a woman was berated by a fanatical old lady at the superstore for not masking her children, who are a risk approaching zero for spreading the virus.
Now heading into fall, some people are being asked to wear masks alone in their own homes, out in open parks, and while exercising. They’re supposed to strap them onto infants and toddlers, who are essentially at zero risk for spreading the Wuhan virus, and they aren’t ever supposed to complain about dental problems, headaches, or dizziness while mask-wearing — because every good COVID Karen knows masks are harmless.
This is our world in 2020. Ironically, not even the experts can keep pro-lockdown, pro-mask fanatics from harassing and endangering others. If you want to prevent this reality from becoming permanent, stand up to the bullies and stand firm on the science — including voting out politicians who’ve abandoned science and recalling those who aren’t up for re-election in November.
Post by: nddons on September 22, 2020, 10:25:08 AM
Post by: Anthony on September 22, 2020, 10:37:31 AM
The wannabe leader of the Branch Covidians, Wisconsin Dem. Gov. Evers just issued another 60-day mask mandate ending 11/21.
HA! Branch Covidians. These effing Democrat Governors and other Democrats along with the Media are really putting the screws to people. There are people at work who think if they don't wear a mask they WILL die. It is just freaking amazing.
Post by: nddons on September 22, 2020, 10:44:00 AM
HA! Branch Covidians. These effing Democrat Governors and other Democrats along with the Media are really putting the screws to people. There are people at wrok who think if they don't wear a mask they WILL die. It is just freaking amazing.Here too. Our firm requires masks when outside of our office, going to the bathroom or coming or going from work.
Today I was in a conference room with our masks off with two of my staff people spread out in a large 16-person conference room, and I got a nasty look from the office manager, who is some admin hag, when she walked by. She must be a covidiot.
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2020, 10:59:52 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2020, 04:17:47 PM
Post by: nddons on September 23, 2020, 10:14:55 AM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/scam-48299-covid-19-cases-37-us-universities-2-hospitalizations-zero-deaths-likely-killed-dog/We are being played.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2020, 06:07:35 PM
Quote
CDC Covid-19 Survival Rates
0-19 99.997%
20-49 99.98%
50-69 99.5%
70+ 94.6%
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 24, 2020, 05:17:16 AM
https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/cdc-publishes-new-survival-rates-for-covid-msm-goes-silent/
I believe that they are referring to the CDC planning scenarios (specifically, the current best estimate).
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
note:
"The parameters in the scenarios:
Are estimates intended to support public health preparedness and planning.
Are not predictions of the expected effects of COVID-19.
Do not reflect the impact of any behavioral changes, social distancing, or other interventions."
Having said that, I'm sure the msm would be all over it if the CDC's planning scenario had a best estimate of the CFR exceeding 10%.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2020, 06:04:34 AM
Post by: Anthony on September 24, 2020, 06:17:37 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 24, 2020, 06:22:16 AM
She’s in a sparsely occupied section of bleachers, ostensibly with members of her own household. If this is really because of a mask, we’re not just flirting with war, we’re in one.
Post by: nddons on September 24, 2020, 08:21:10 AM
https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/cdc-publishes-new-survival-rates-for-covid-msm-goes-silent/I had a medical procedure last year that had a 2% chance of serious complications, and did it anyway. I’ll risk a 0.005 chance of dying of Covid if it means getting on with my life.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2020, 06:47:40 PM
Quote
If you’ve ever wondered what it would be like to watch a physicist try to explain quantum mechanics to a room full of delinquent kindergartners, we finally have a pretty good idea.
Most of our readers probably already know that Trump appointed Dr. Scott Atlas of Stanford University’s prestigious Hoover Institution to his COVID-19 task force last month.
As I noted when the good news broke:
Dr. Atlas is one of the thousands of medical experts the Democrats and their media enablers don’t want you to know about who’ve been trying to put the breaks on the suicidal, anti-science response to COVID-19 they’ve conned us into following.
Way back in April, Dr. Atlas tried to save America from the deadly quack medicine we were convinced to guzzle down like a junkie who’s stumbled on a gallon jug of cough syrup in an op-ed titled:
The Data Is in — Stop the Panic and End the Total Isolation.
He explained five facts that were already apparent a month after lockdowns started and some of which should have prevented anyone from ever even suggesting the heretofore unheard-of lunacy.
Fact 1:The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.
Fact 2: Protecting the older, at-risk population would have been sufficient to prevent hospital overcrowding, (which it turns out was never a danger anyway).
Fact 3: Total isolation policies, if effective, PREVENT vital herd immunity and, hence, only PROLONG the problem.
Fact 4: People are dying because medical care for other ailments was shut down due to hypothetical COVID-19 fatality projections (that were produced by a guy with a history of massively inflated projections and, predictably, turned out to be total garbage).
Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who could’ve been better protected by adopting targeted measures.
In May, Dr. Atlas tried to get the word out that the useless untargeted measures inflicted on us instead are going to kill far more people than even the most exaggerated projections about the virus’s death toll used to con us into accepting them.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 25, 2020, 04:31:49 AM
https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/09/24/watch-trumps-new-covid-explain-covid-science-to-room-of-people-who-majored-in-journalism-at-breifing/
wait for POS to do a drunk-post dismissing anything from Dr Atlas.
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2020, 06:12:32 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2020, 06:21:14 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2020, 07:01:48 AM
So we did a massive prison purge due to "Covid"............
We were so concerned criminals serving sentences for actual crimes may be at risk, yet know we jail citizens for violating laws that aren't even codified into law and are in fact decrees from an executive............
And we are told to wear mask and social distance because that prevents covid. So why weren't prisoners issued mask and kept in their cells to socially distance them?
Post by: Number7 on September 27, 2020, 07:04:01 AM
https://www.redstate.com/alexparker/2020/09/26/shawn-marshall-myers-maryland-failure-comply-coronavirus-parties-year-prison/
So we did a massive prison purge due to "Covid"............
We were so concerned criminals serving sentences for actual crimes may be at risk, yet know we jail citizens for violating laws that aren't even codified into law and are in fact decrees from an executive............
And we are told to wear mask and social distance because that prevents covid. So why weren't prisoners issued mask and kept in their cells to socially distance them?
For the reason democrats (communists) worship abortion but hate capital punishment.
The word democrat should translate: hypocrite.
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2020, 07:06:23 AM
For the reason democrats (communists) worship abortion but hate capital punishment.
The word democrat should translate: hypocrite.
But democrats scream "My Body My Choice!"
So when it comes to masking, why isn't it "My Body My Choice"...........
Never mind............. ::)
Post by: Number7 on September 27, 2020, 07:14:15 AM
But democrats scream "My Body My Choice!"
So when it comes to masking, why isn't it "My Body My Choice"...........
Never mind............. ::)
...because democrat can also be translated communist, liar, dishonest, corrupt, and truly reprehensible.
Post by: Rush on September 27, 2020, 07:36:34 AM
https://www.redstate.com/alexparker/2020/09/26/shawn-marshall-myers-maryland-failure-comply-coronavirus-parties-year-prison/
So we did a massive prison purge due to "Covid"............
We were so concerned criminals serving sentences for actual crimes may be at risk, yet know we jail citizens for violating laws that aren't even codified into law and are in fact decrees from an executive............
And we are told to wear mask and social distance because that prevents covid. So why weren't prisoners issued mask and kept in their cells to socially distance them?
Well, except that guy is this same guy. Not that his history has anything to do with the stupid covid charge. Just makes me feel less sympathetic toward him.
https://wjla.com/news/crime/shawn-marshall-myers-charged-in-2004-thanksgiving-murder-63054
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/guilty-verdict-reached-in-mader-murder-case/2012/07/10/gJQAjArvcW_story.html
TLDR: Correll was convicted of murder in a botched robbery and Myers was his accomplice.
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2020, 05:12:40 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 29, 2020, 05:28:24 AM
Post by: Anthony on September 29, 2020, 06:24:38 AM
hypocrisy from congresscritters? I'm shocked!
The Democrat politicians know it's all for show and government control. Hypocrisy is too mild of a word. Fascist? Evil? Destructive? Still too mild.
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2020, 04:56:26 PM
Post by: Anthony on September 30, 2020, 04:23:50 AM
Post by: nddons on October 01, 2020, 12:17:42 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 01, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 24, 2020, 12:48:44 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 25, 2020, 05:44:37 AM
Quote
According to a recent study from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than 70 percent of the people who tested positive for COVID-19 wore masks regularly. By contrast, under 4 percent of those testing positive never wore masks.
Coupled with this was an extensive review of mask studies worldwide in which the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) determined that typical cloth masks did little to stop the transmission of COVID-19. Although experts like to claim that cloth masks will prevent droplets carrying the virus from reaching others when a person sneezes or coughs, the reality is that most people are probably better off using their elbow and turning away from others. Moreover, the virus can still pass through a cloth mask, and the eyes, which aren’t covered, can act as “a portal of entry.”
The scientific evidence here strongly suggests that masks do nothing at best, and may actually increase the spread of infection at worst. This is probably why countries that haven’t imposed mask mandates do just as well or better than those that have required them.
And yet, the symbolism behind masks is significant enough for mask mandates and mask-shaming to continue.
Despite the rhetoric, the science was always secondary—as the AAPS writers note, this is shown in the fact that “The recommendation [for universal masking] was published without a single scientific paper or other information provided to support that cloth masks actually provide any respiratory protection.”
Rather, masks were a tool for spreading awareness and keeping Americans in fear of a virus that posed minimal risk to the great majority of the population. And in an election year, such an environment could turn Americans against Trump and the Republican Party. That’s why the masks mandates likely will only end after the election.
In light of the evolving narrative and multiplying meanings behind masks, however, there is reason to think that masking will continue for a much longer time. It has become bigger than politics.
Masks may not be able to block COVID-19, but increasingly they have blocked common sense from the wearers. After so many months of mandates and propaganda, people have a lot invested in their understanding of what it means to be a good faithful American embodied in the face mask.
It wasn’t this way at first. In May and June, soon after states were reopening from their lockdowns, masks were an extra precaution taken by people simply being courteous towards others. The idea wasn’t to prevent one from being infected, but from infecting others. At that time, the mask conferred easy moral superiority to the wearer who could claim he was doing his part to help others.
Soon enough, governors and mayors mandated masking. Businesses and churches that failed to turn out customers without masks would be subject to heavy fines along with the individual offenders themselves. Even though masks were intended to enable safe reopening for states, most governments maintained closures of public areas and tight restrictions on building capacity. It was not enough to stand 6+ feet apart; people had to wear a mask now, too.
This was when masks became a partisan issue. Conservatives mainly saw them as yet more proof of a busybody government exploiting a crisis. Progressives saw them as badges of civic duty, and many were willing to go even further, wearing their masks outdoors, at home, and alone in their cars.
In its final phase the mask’s symbolism has now taken on spiritual and psychological dimensions. While some advocates of masking might insist on the science or the expert testimonials behind masking, most of them now treat it as an unquestionable article of faith. Like the Christian cross representing Christ’s overcoming sin, the mask represents mankind overcoming the virus. It is like the Muslim hijab or Catholic veil indicating modesty and reverence before God. The mask indicates modesty and reverence before the virus. Like the yin-yang circle reflecting the cosmic forces of light and dark in harmony with one another, the mask reflects the life forces of infection and recovery in harmony with one another.
The mask doesn’t just signal virtue to others, it is a transcendent union with other people who treat the virus with sufficient seriousness. Whereas church services are unsafe for communities of believers to meet, people can form a community of COVID-19 believers by wearing their masks and nodding at one another from a safe distance. They can share in the feeling that they are saving lives, respecting science, and taking concrete action against the virus.
No one should underestimate how strong and widespread the belief in masks is. For many, they are a source of profound security. They are secure from the virus, immorality, and in the promise of societal approval. Their masks even empower them to become puritanical and judgmental. With full-throated conviction, they will blame victims of COVID-19 for not wearing masks and for lacking sufficient faith in the mask. They will insist on quarantining them and their family members for two-weeks no matter what. In most cases, it’s difficult to determine whether this is a health precaution designed to mitigate spread or a punishment for being near the virus in the first place.
Many people who are frustrated with the masking simply want to return to mask-free normality. It isn’t so simple anymore. Asking a person to take off his mask now means asking him to take off all that the masking has come to mean. Removing it means removing one’s safety, one’s sense of belonging, and one’s values. This is probably why face mask-wearing has even become an addiction in a developed country like Japan. They were originally used to help with hay fever, but are now used all year round for whatever reason.
Facts or even a Republican victory in November won’t be enough in the fights against masks. Maskers need to be constantly yet gently reminded of the reality that masks took away: real community, real science, real safety, and real meaning. The goal should be not revenge, but rather a release from a symbol that hides people from one another and perpetuates fear.
Many people were wrong about the masks, even the experts. This is forgivable, and therefore forgiveness is offered. Once Americans come to terms with masks, they will be able to clear the air both figuratively and literally and finally make it past the pandemic nightmare.
Post by: Number7 on October 25, 2020, 05:55:53 AM
https://amgreatness.com/2020/10/24/if-masks-dont-work-why-do-we-keep-wearing-them/
You HATER, YOU!
I DEMAND the moderators BAN you and erase all previous posts for your demented, murderous, and hateful posting history.
We are going to organize an antifa riot on your street just fo we can burn your house down and terrorize you and your neighbors....
... all in the name of love, you know.
Post by: Lucifer on October 25, 2020, 06:01:35 AM
Quote
Since the early stages of the coronavirus crisis, any viewpoint or research running afoul of the accepted doctrine conceived by the credentialed class has been censored.
Social media platforms, internet search engines, and other monopolistic guardians of information decided at the very beginning that they would determine which content would be available for public consumption; “false claims or conspiracy theories that have been flagged by leading global health organizations and local health authorities that could cause harm to people who believe them” would be subjected to Facebook’s reject button, according to a January 2020 statement released by the company.
Twitter announced it would prompt users to follow “credible, authoritative information” on the virus. None other than the World Health Organization, the agency that has flubbed the pandemic every step of the way, partnered with Twitter to judge what is credible and what is not.
A YouTube video produced in March by Dr. John Ioannidis, an early critic of the government’s handling of the virus, was removed for violating the company’s terms of service. Another widely-viewed video featuring two California emergency room doctors describing their experiences with people suffering the consequences of lockdowns and the emerging data about the virus’ lethality met the same fate in April. Ditto for a July video that showed several doctors condemning the detrimental effects of the lockdowns and promoting the reopening of schools and businesses nationwide.
Posts about hydroxychloroquine, including a tweet by the president’s son, are also banned. The president’s tweet earlier this month claiming the flu is as deadly as COVID-19 was flagged by Twitter for “spreading misleading and potentially harmful information” about the virus.
But the only thing that’s “harmful” to the public as this crisis continues is the suppression of information that—based on data, research, and experience—contradicts what the public has been brainwashed to believe.
The left-leaning scientific and public health community decided back in January what the accepted “facts” would be; nine months later, even as we know much more about how the virus spreads, who it impacts, and how to manage it, dissent is not permitted.
“It’s a combination of Orwell and Kafka,” Dr. Scott Atlas, the president’s new coronavirus advisor, told me during a lengthy call Sunday afternoon. The Stanford fellow and public policy expert is under fire from coronanoia propagandists for bringing some common sense and common decency to the debate. It is Atlas who now has the president’s ear while Drs. Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx are justifiably on the outs.
Atlas discovered early Sunday morning that Twitter removed two of his tweets critical of mask mandates. The first tweet included, as Atlas explained, studies from Oxford’s Center for Evidence Based Medicine, the WHO, and the Centers for Disease Control as well as observational examples from Miami-Dade, Los Angeles County, Hawaii, and several countries where cases are rising despite near-universal mask use. To clarify that his point concerned government-imposed mask mandates, Atlas subtweeted his initial tweet to clarify that his position aligned with the president’s.
“Use masks for their intended purpose—when close to others, especially hi risk. Otherwise social distance. No widespread mask mandates,” Atlas tweeted. But Twitter nonetheless purged the original tweet for violating its rules.
The blue bird’s expurgator failed to identify which precise “rule” Atlas broke. Nor did the platform dispute Atlas’ accurate conclusions that plenty of cities and counties are seeing lots of positive tests even though residents have been wearing masks for the better part of half the year. Twitter also did not challenge the WHO or CDC comments that Atlas cited.
“That’s a common sense policy on how to use masks,” Atlas said. “But it’s contrary to widespread obsession with masks and the narrative that we typically hear from the media. Twitter will not allow evidence even with quotes.”
Face coverings aren’t just a public obsession but a hot-button campaign issue. All-powerful Democratic and Republican office holders routinely blurt “wear a mask!” orders at powerless constituents. During last week’s dueling town hall meetings, Trump and Biden faced questions about mask use at the onset; Biden has suggested, then flip-flopped, then suggested again he would impose a national mask mandate if elected. He’s on the quasi-campaign trail wearing two masks at a time.
But the science on masks is far from settled. Experts such as Fauci are now backtracking on their initial opposition to mask use; the media’s coronavirus darling is attempting to rewrite history to downplay his early objections.
“Contrary to what we thought, masks really do work,” Fauci said during a glowing “60 Minutes” profile segment that aired Sunday night. “It became clear that cloth coverings . . . and not necessarily a surgical mask or an N95, cloth covering work.” With this, Fauci pulled out a homemade-looking mask, put his fingers all over it, put it on for the camera, took it off, and stuffed it back in his suit pants pocket. Science!
There is no controlled study examining whether face masks, especially the bespoke kind that most people wear, are effective in stopping the spread of infected COVID droplets by asymptomatic carriers—a claim that is itself without hard proof. (Fauci opposes a controlled trial, he said, because it would allow people not to wear masks.) A Danish scientist who has conducted the only known study on masks and COVID-19 told Alex Berenson, a former New York Times reporter and lockdown critic, that his study would be available “as soon as a journal is brave enough,” to publish it, implying the results would contradict current mask dogma.
Roughly half the recent studies cited by the CDC as evidence of the efficacy of mask wearing were authored by Chinese authorities.
Despite what Silicon Valley’s Democratic Party oligarchs believe, or want their users to believe, we continue to learn more and more about the complexities of this virus. It is completely inimical to science to think that the groupthink that besieged us back in March and April should still apply today.
Further, the mitigation strategies must be considered in their full context. The side effects of the scientific community’s premature prescription to COVID-19 are as bad, if not worse, than the disease itself. This is what keeps Atlas up at night and keeps him working amid the external and internal forces aligned against him.
He choked up telling me about two emails he received on Friday. A woman encouraged him to keep fighting; her husband had committed suicide that week from the consequences of the lockdown. Another woman emailed Atlas to commend him for his advocacy because her teenage daughter also had attempted suicide for the same reason.
“They are desperate and begging me not to give up,” Atlas, a Chicago native, told me. “I cannot quit because so many people are desperate for me to speak the truth. They have nobody. These people pushing lockdowns have massive blood on their hands.” He receives hundreds of emails a day from suffering Americans and others all over the world, and has for months.
Atlas didn’t name names—unlike his fellow White House Coronavirus Task Force colleagues who are orchestrating media hit jobs to discredit him and the president by extension—but referred to the “massive egos” of public health officials publicly invested in the inhumane, unscientific strategy to keep schools and business closed down regardless of the lasting damage.
“Public health leaders in the United States are destroying the country and killing people. But their reputations are on the line, their stature depends on coverage by their friends in the media, they made predictions without a full understanding of what’s going on,” he told me.
The country, Atlas said, is in dangerous territory if people who show data contrary to conventional wisdom are silenced.
“This will mark the downfall of the United States if censorship of information is allowed,” he lamented. “It honestly is the end of the country.”
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 25, 2020, 06:10:44 AM
https://amgreatness.com/2020/10/24/if-masks-dont-work-why-do-we-keep-wearing-them/
but but but but there was a recent study of infection rates and mask usage by medical professional. It showed how there was a decline in infections among healthcare workers even when the local community was experiencing an increase.
What the new article doesn't mention is that the masks being used were N95 and surgical masks (i.e., medical-grade masks) and that they were being worn by people who were trained in the correct mask usage protocols.
Post by: Lucifer on October 25, 2020, 06:28:46 AM
but but but but there was a recent study of infection rates and mask usage by medical professional. It showed how there was a decline in infections among healthcare workers even when the local community was experiencing an increase.
What the new article doesn't mention is that the masks being used were N95 and surgical masks (i.e., medical-grade masks) and that they were being worn by people who were trained in the correct mask usage protocols.
The Branch Covidians have turned this into a religious crusade, facts be damned!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 03, 2024, 05:45:26 PM
Quote
DNA integration poses a unique and elevated risk to human health and to the integrity of the human genome, including the risk that DNA integrated into sperm or egg gametes could be passed onto offspring of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine recipients. If the risks of DNA integration have not been assessed for mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, these vaccines are not appropriate for use in human beings.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 03, 2024, 05:59:20 PM
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/florida/florida-surgeon-general-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-not-appropriate-use-human-beings/ZNLFLKX2BZD7RLXBDWGEKMNECA/Scientifically dubious claim by the Florida surgeon general, IMHO. He doesn't actually claim it happens, just that no one proved that it doesn't happen so one should act as if it does happen. That reasoning applied to all attempts to advance medicine would cause progress to grind to a halt.
Post by: Lucifer on January 03, 2024, 06:11:18 PM
Scientifically dubious claim by the Florida surgeon general, IMHO. He doesn't actually claim it happens, just that no one proved that it doesn't happen so one should act as if it does happen. That reasoning applied to all attempts to advance medicine would cause progress to grind to a halt.
And what are you using to say the Dr is making a dubious claim?
Post by: Number7 on January 03, 2024, 08:34:52 PM
Scientifically dubious claim by the Florida surgeon general, IMHO. He doesn't actually claim it happens, just that no one proved that it doesn't happen so one should act as if it does happen. That reasoning applied to all attempts to advance medicine would cause progress to grind to a halt.
Bullshit, circular logic like that worked out so well for women who took thalidomide….
But you always show up and pretend superiority while offering nothing but negatives, instead of positive reasoning… so…
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 03, 2024, 09:18:44 PM
Bullshit, circular logic like that worked out so well for women who took thalidomide….Thalidomide wasn't tested on pregnant animals before being given to pregnant women. When it finally was tested on animals the birth defects were immediately noted. By contrast the mRNA vaccines were tested on various animals and then used on hundreds of millions of people. For groups that weren't tested (such as pregnant women) the vaccine was not recommended until further testing could be done.
But you always show up and pretend superiority while offering nothing but negatives, instead of positive reasoning… so…
At this very late date if Ladapo thinks trace DNA somehow gets incorporated into chromosomal DNA then it should be no problem to sequence the DNA of anyone he thinks has had their DNA compromised and look for the sequence of the trace DNA. In other words he can do lab work to show his concerns are valid. Instead he engages in speculation on the improbable.
Feel free to explain how any trace DNA in the vaccine makes it way through the nuclear membrane and thence into chromosomal DNA.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 03, 2024, 10:26:07 PM
And what are you using to say the Dr is making a dubious claim?It is known that plant DNA gets into human blood but nobody has made like a plant and leafed. So playing up fears over trace DNA in nanogram amounts is misguided at best.
...based on the analysis of over 1000 human samples from four independent studies, we report evidence that meal-derived DNA fragments which are large enough to carry complete genes can avoid degradation and through an unknown mechanism enter the human circulation system. In one of the blood samples the relative concentration of plant DNA is higher than the human DNA. Source. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3728338/)
Post by: Rush on January 04, 2024, 04:25:14 AM
It is known that plant DNA gets into human blood but nobody has made like a plant and leafed. So playing up fears over trace DNA in nanogram amounts is misguided at best.
...based on the analysis of over 1000 human samples from four independent studies, we report evidence that meal-derived DNA fragments which are large enough to carry complete genes can avoid degradation and through an unknown mechanism enter the human circulation system. In one of the blood samples the relative concentration of plant DNA is higher than the human DNA. Source. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3728338/)
Hmmmmm we eat animals all the time and their DNA is much more like ours than is plant DNA yet I don’t think it merges with our own cells to give us their features. On the other hand their DNA is not specifically engineered to tell a cell to produce a certain protein. I’m not a microbiologist so wth do I know.
Post by: Number7 on January 04, 2024, 06:50:33 AM
I’m not a microbiologist so wth do I know.
Neither is jim. He just has a need to feel superior and pretend to be above us all.
His bullshit is just bullshit, but he thinks it makes him sound smart.
Improperly tested drugs/vaccines, and suppressed testing results are crimes, not accidents.
Post by: Rush on January 04, 2024, 08:12:18 AM
Scientifically dubious claim by the Florida surgeon general, IMHO. He doesn't actually claim it happens, just that no one proved that it doesn't happen so one should act as if it does happen. That reasoning applied to all attempts to advance medicine would cause progress to grind to a halt.
It’s always a risk benefit trade off. And in general I agree that you cannot halt medical progress based on “possibility it might.” That would be like never going into space because “possibly something might go wrong and kill astronauts”. Anything new and unknown is risky but you must always do the “is it worth it” calculation.
If someone put a gun to my head and forced me, while not being a biologist, to choose an opinion, I would guess that you are right; that vaccine DNA fragments don’t invade our chromosomes and initiate any kind of change that our immune system wouldn’t immediately detect and destroy.
But in the interest of risk/benefit let’s look at the balance:
Benefits:
1. Maybe the vaccine reduces severity of symptoms and thereby possibly saves lives.
2. Maybe it reduces transmission.
Risks:
1. There is a demonstrated risk of myocarditis in certain groups and possible universal associations with cardiac or clotting disorders, but this must be compared to the same complications associated with the disease itself.
2. While short term studies were done prior to its release to the general population, long term studies have not been and we simply don’t know what the long term side effects, if any, there might be. This is especially applicable to children and young adults, as they must live many more decades so are the ones to suffer from long term effects.
In my opinion considering the risk/benefits outlined above, the benefits may outweigh the risk only in the very old or possibly the very obese/sick who are at risk of death from any upper respiratory illness.
The risks greatly outweigh the benefits in children and healthy young adults. The Covid vaccine should never be administered to these groups. In the meantime there needs to be data collection and studies of children who did get the vax over the next several decades to answer the question of whether there are long term effects.
My recommendations will never be followed because one of the benefits, which I failed to list, is drug companies’ profits.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 04, 2024, 08:20:38 AM
Thalidomide wasn't tested on pregnant animals before being given to pregnant women. When it finally was tested on animals the birth defects were immediately noted. By contrast the mRNA vaccines were tested on various animals and then used on hundreds of millions of people. For groups that weren't tested (such as pregnant women) the vaccine was not recommended until further testing could be done.The entire purpose of the mRNA vaccine, as we were told over and over, was to penetrate the cell membrane and be transcribed into protein. Multiple papers have described that the possibility of DNA transfer in that process exists. Alarms were raised and suppressed.
At this very late date if Ladapo thinks trace DNA somehow gets incorporated into chromosomal DNA then it should be no problem to sequence the DNA of anyone he thinks has had their DNA compromised and look for the sequence of the trace DNA. In other words he can do lab work to show his concerns are valid. Instead he engages in speculation on the improbable.
Feel free to explain how any trace DNA in the vaccine makes it way through the nuclear membrane and thence into chromosomal DNA.
It seems to me that officialdom has been startlingly incurious about the continuation of protein transcription (spike) in the human body after these injections. That tells us a lot. The fact that everything we were assured in the beginning was proven untrue (“safe and effective”), should alert us to be wary of what we’re being told now. First it was a xenovirus that jumped from the wild, while now we know it was a leak. A leak, or intentional?
The ENTIRE original narrative is failing completely. This begs the question of believing serial liars now without serious interrogation and free discussion and publishing of results. The whole public justification for doing gain of function research was to get ahead of natural processes. Now we see that these programs should probably be shut down entirely. Do we even know who our adversaries are who may use these things against us? No. What is currently underway, what have we done, and what should we do now?
To add: The potential problems just go on and on. Pseudouridine in vaccines replaces the uridine in the cell coating to allow mRNA entry, creating at least two possibilities. Correct transcription of a harmful substance, and/or mistranscription that creates junk protein instead of a clean copy. More and more vaccine ingredients are coming under scrutiny. A cadre of doctors who have administered them for years are realizing the harmful ingredients can indeed outweigh ANY perceived benefit. What we see as well is an exaggeration of a threat to promote fear and thus raise vaccine uptake. Endle$$ly.
To add again:
https://twitter.com/CommiesOnCampus/status/1742911839636181002?s=20
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 04, 2024, 10:05:50 AM
Post by: Number7 on January 06, 2024, 06:57:05 AM
I can't wait for jim's take on this article. His defense of corporate profits above health, welfare, safety, and personal choice ought to be breathtaking. Since he wasn't present when it happened, we will all be educated by him about why such a warning is inappropriate, i'm sure.
Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo, MD, PhD, has called for a halt to the administration of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines over concerns about what he calls nucleic acid contaminants, the office shared in a Jan. 3 news release. The move contradicts national guidelines from the CDC and FDA.
Dr. Ladapo recommends that instead of using the mRNA vaccines for now, physicians in the state should "prioritize patient access to non-mRNA COVID-19 vaccines and treatment."
"The FDA stands firmly behind the safety, effectiveness and manufacturing quality of the approved and authorized COVID-19 vaccines, and respectfully disagrees with the Florida Surgeon General's opinion…" a spokesperson told Becker's. "The challenge we continue to face is the ongoing proliferation of misinformation and disinformation about these vaccines, which results in vaccine hesitancy that lowers vaccine uptake. Given the dramatic reduction in the risk of death, hospitalization and serious illness afforded by the vaccines, lower vaccine uptake is contributing to the continued death and serious illness toll of COVID-19."
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/florida-surgeon-general-calls-for-halt-of-covid-vaccines-fda-fires-back.html
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 06, 2024, 07:19:29 AM
Post by: Little Joe on January 06, 2024, 01:45:23 PM
Notice how it's never the Government spreading disinformation or misinformation.No. I never noticed that.
I just notice that the press never reports it that way when it's a democrat.
Post by: Anthony on January 07, 2024, 02:17:37 AM
Post by: Little Joe on January 07, 2024, 04:48:59 AM
Anyone noticing more idiot mask wearers out there? I am. The vast majority are women. Says a lot. And they vote and bitch a lot.Yep. They vote in higher percentages than men and they vote D more than men.
What could go wrong?
Post by: Rush on January 07, 2024, 05:17:59 AM
Yep. They vote in higher percentages than men and they vote D more than men.
What could go wrong?
I think it was Michael Malice and Count Dankula I was listening to where they said a group of women can't get anything done (in the context of government) because they'll endlessly talk about it, and backbite each other, and can't get along. Men can work as a team, more or less putting aside their differences for the sake of a job, at least are better at doing that than women.
The discussion was in the context of Scottish politics, where a party run by a woman is taking over by less than forthright means, a party that is far left, yet calls itself "nationalist" even though they're for open borders, because they want independence from the UK so they can go back and rejoin the EU. Sound screwed up yet?
So they do stuff like this: Hold a public meeting to get input on proposed legislation, print the date and time for the meeting in the back page of some obscure publication, send out invites to a select group they know agrees with them, hold the meeting where of course most people favor the legislation, and then go before whatever Scotland has for a legislative body and tell them they got input from "the public" which overwhelmingly favors it.
THAT's the sort of shit leftists do. And women, reminds me of high school, women are real good at excluding people they don't like and manipulating everybody to get what they want. I hated them in high school and have never liked your standard pack of hens. I like the kind of woman who isn't like that. Kari Lake maybe, or Becky here.
So the woman that runs this party was the protege of some man before her who was kind of a socialist but not quite as nutty as her, so he had retired and let her take over but thought she was going a bit too far so he said he wanted to come back, and guess what happened next? MeToo allegations. Some woman claimed he touched her knee at a party back in the 1990s. And so now he's canceled. Coincidental timing? I think not.
Anyway that's something like the gist of it and now you don't have to listen to the hour and a half podcast.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 07, 2024, 06:55:38 AM
in the technical world, a person's actual gender is a very poor predictor of performance/value.
Post by: Anthony on January 07, 2024, 08:06:08 AM
Yep. They vote in higher percentages than men and they vote D more than men.
What could go wrong?
Women are easily frightened by propaganda, yet aren't worried about the huge invasion at our southern border. Go figure.
Post by: Rush on January 07, 2024, 09:45:41 AM
otoh - I worked with women who were good leaders, good team members. real assets to the programs/projects.
in the technical world, a person's actual gender is a very poor predictor of performance/value.
Women who go into STEM are much more sane and logical than average.
Post by: Little Joe on January 07, 2024, 10:49:26 AM
Women who go into STEM are much more sane and logical than average.How would you categorize women that go into politics?
(oh, wait. I think you already did that very well above).
Post by: Rush on January 07, 2024, 11:31:52 AM
How would you categorize women that go into politics?
(oh, wait. I think you already did that very well above).
Women who go into politics want to broaden their control, that should only be over one man, to an entire population. ;)
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2024, 11:46:24 AM
Women who go into politics want to broaden their control, that should only be over one man, to an entire population. ;)Hahaha! I’m most surprised when we women restrain ourselves from such an urge. After all, we usually see the problem and have 15 possible solutions before the guys even realize something is wrong. ;)
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 07, 2024, 12:01:22 PM
Hahaha! I’m most surprised when we women restrain ourselves from such an urge. After all, we usually see the problem and have 15 possible solutions before the guys even realize something is wrong. ;)
Well, considering that women cause all the problems, ;-)
Post by: elwood blues on January 07, 2024, 12:41:59 PM
How would you categorize women that go into politics?
Narcissists.
The 19th was a mistake. Politics is not their arena.
Post by: Rush on January 07, 2024, 01:15:36 PM
Narcissists.
The 19th was a mistake. Politics is not their arena.
Yes, narcissists. I was going to say that myself but I’ve been saying that a lot lately and people are going to start thinking I’m Jordan Peterson.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 10, 2024, 09:53:19 AM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1706676593261785178
Post by: Little Joe on January 10, 2024, 10:14:31 AM
Your Government would never spread disinformation.....But they were doing their best with the information they chose to believe at the time!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1706676593261785178
Post by: Anthony on January 10, 2024, 05:28:43 PM
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2024, 07:21:38 AM
Post by: texasag93 on January 19, 2024, 09:35:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VdcqVOm.jpg)
My wife does not let drug/product reps in our office.
She met with a rep one time 16 years ago, used his product in a surgery, and the hospital (who passed it on to the patient) was billed $8k for a mesh product.
She raised holy hell and the patient did not have to pay, but that taught her a lesson.