PILOT SPIN
Pilot Zone => Pilot Zone => Topic started by: TimRB on October 24, 2020, 01:46:45 PM
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An airplane's annual inspection is due in October. This means that the owner has until the end of the month to get it done. (Yes, I know that most start their annuals at the end of the month so the new annual is signed off at the beginning of the next month, thereby getting 13 months out of their previous annual.)
The work is begun in the middle of the month, and the mechanic finishes the job in a day or two, but is lazy about the logbook writeups and signoffs. Question is, can the owner fly the plane anyway, since the old annual is still valid? Or does starting a new annual somehow start a new clock running that invalidates the old annual?
Tim
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Hmm. This is the kind of question that is going to receive just as many opinions as it does responses.
My feeling is that once he starts taking the airplane apart, it is no longer airworthy. And it will NOT be airworthy again until he signs off on it. So I don't think you can fly it till you get the sig.
And besides that old guy on POA, what mechanic can finish an annual in a day or two? I guess it's possible, but even my easiest and cleanest annuals have taken a week or so.
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Hmm. This is the kind of question that is going to receive just as many opinions as it does responses.
My feeling is that once he starts taking the airplane apart, it is no longer airworthy. And it will NOT be airworthy again until he signs off on it. So I don't think you can fly it till you get the sig.
And besides that old guy on POA, what mechanic can finish an annual in a day or two? I guess it's possible, but even my easiest and cleanest annuals have taken a week or so.
I agree that the aircraft has to be returned to service.
btw - one year, the IA and I managed to complete the annual inspection on my Cherokee 140 in less than 24 hours... from the time I started to remove the panels for him until the time he signed the logs and returned it to service. In other words, a simple aircraft without any repairs needed can be done pretty quickly.
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The mechanic can sign it off any way he chooses. He can simply inspect, close it up and sign it off at the first of the month.
Or, he can inspect, sign it off as a 100 hour inspection, return to service and then sign the annual off at the first of the month.
Or he can sign off the inspection as an annual on the date he returns to service.
If it were me, I would choose door number 2.
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btw - one year, the IA and I managed to complete the annual inspection on my Cherokee 140 in less than 24 hours... from the time I started to remove the panels for him until the time he signed the logs and returned it to service. In other words, a simple aircraft without any repairs needed can be done pretty quickly.
Thanks, everyone, for your replies.
My plane also is a Cherokee 140. I always open everything up so it's ready for inspection, and then put it back together when it's done. This year the mechanic charged me for six hours of labor--not too bad.
Tim
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So the situation is:
The plane's previous annual is still valid since it's not past the end of the month.
There's nothing in the logbooks indicating that a new annual has started.
The aircraft is back together.
What I would do is ask the IA if there's anything that makes the plane un-airworthy. If the answer is no, then go fly until the end of the month. Anyone inspecting the plane or logbooks will see that it is in annual. Then get the IA to sign off on the inspection on the first of the next month. Note that I am not an expert and this is not legal advice. In my opinion, if there's nothing in the logbook, then there's no new inspection.
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Note that I am not an expert and this is not legal advice.
Hey, this is the internet--EVERYBODY'S an expert. Anyway, I agree with your reasoning. Technical legalities notwithstanding, no one would be able to show that the plane was out of annual. In the past I have had situations where everything was done, no problems, but the mechanic said something like "I'm very busy right now so it's going to take me a day or two to get to the books, but you're fine to go fly." I have never done it, being too paranoid to fly the plane without having the signoffs. I have a hunch that our reasoning may not hold as much water as we think.
Tim
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If an accident happens with the airplane in the mean time, how would the insurance company or FAA act if they found work had been done on the plane but not logged prior to resuming flight? You or the mechanic may argue it was “not yet logged” but one or both may dismiss the “yet” as speculation. Unlogged work....
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One thing that might work is to write up a quick paper that says something like "Aircraft Nxxxxx has been inspected and found airworthy. Logbooks will be updated with details as soon as possible" and have the IA just sign it. Minimal paperwork on the IA's side and protects you from issues. Paper is better than a verbal statement if something hits the fan.
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You can annual an airplane every month if you wish. There's nothing that says an annual inspection shall only be every 12 months.
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I have an airplane who's next annual isn't due for months. I deliver it for inspection by a potential buyer, who wants an annual inspection in lieu of a PPI. His mechanic says the aircraft is unairworthy. Is it?
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I have an airplane who's next annual isn't due for months. I deliver it for inspection by a potential buyer, who wants an annual inspection in lieu of a PPI. His mechanic says the aircraft is unairworthy. Is it?
First of all, an IA cannot declare an aircraft as unairworthy. What he can do is perform an inspection, give a list of the discrepancies to the owner and the IA signs off his inspection. The owner is free to use an A&P to clear the discrepancies.
To answer your question, if you allowed an annual inspection to be performed months before it was due, it still counts as an annual and resets the due date.
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I have an airplane who's next annual isn't due for months. I deliver it for inspection by a potential buyer, who wants an annual inspection in lieu of a PPI. His mechanic says the aircraft is unairworthy. Is it?
1.) Anthropomorphize much?
2.) Depends, what counts (IMHO) is what's written in the log book. I would not allow the logbook to be in his hands during the inspection. If he wants to see it for AD compliance, he can peruse it and return it to me before he opens the bird.
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1.) Anthropomorphize much?
Don't understand this. (Well, maybe in a very technically, literary sense).
2.) Depends, what counts (IMHO) is what's written in the log book. I would not allow the logbook to be in his hands during the inspection. If he wants to see it for AD compliance, he can peruse it and return it to me before he opens the bird.
Agree with this.
anthropomorphize
intransitive verb To ascribe human characteristics to.
intransitive verb To ascribe human characteristics to things not human.
To invest with human qualities.
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Steingar said:
You are exactly correct. Didn't think of it in those terms. What do you know, I learn something from this wretched site. Thank you.
I hit the wrong damned button and accidentally removed this message from Steingar but don't know how to reverse my actions. Lucifer? Stan? Can you help put it back?
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Steingar said:
I hit the wrong damned button and accidentally removed this message from Steingar but don't know how to reverse my actions. Lucifer? Stan? Can you help put it back?
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/kcBkJTnSvTyfu/giphy.gif)
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(http://www.imfdb.org/images/c/cf/Hogans_Heroes_-_Kar_5.jpg)
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So if Schultz goes in for an annual, and no one notices he traded his rifle for a Krag, does he still know nothing?
Tim
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So if Schultz goes in for an annual, and no one notices he traded his rifle for a Krag, does he still know nothing?
Tim
Glad you picked up on the Krag Jorgensen. Yeah, that ain't no Mauser K98k. ;D