Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on April 23, 2021, 09:08:40 PM
https://www.ouramericanrepublic.org/post/should-i-take-the-vaccine
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 24, 2021, 04:24:21 AM
hardly.
It will appeal to some because there is an element of truth in at least some of the 20 reasons, but won't be difficult to poke holes in each of the 20 reasons... later when I have some time.
but, I'll say it again: your body, your choice.
Post by: Lucifer on April 24, 2021, 04:26:50 AM
Post by: Rush on April 24, 2021, 06:07:30 AM
To be clear, this part is false, or at least way distorted:
Quote
(For what it’s worth, the company’s vaccine also contains tissues from aborted fetal cells, perhaps a topic for another discussion).
During development, not in the final product, a cell line (not original tissue) was used from a single fetus aborted decades ago. The cells are replicated descendants of what used to be living fetal tissue, but now generations removed. To call those cells aborted fetal tissue is like calling me a slave owner if my great great grandfather owned a slave. The cells of my body are indeed literally descended from my ancestor, but that doesn’t equate me to him.
And anyway those cells were used in the development, not present in the final product. From a morality standpoint, I agree with the Southern Baptist Ethics Commission and the Catholic Church, both of which have stated that the good of community protection outweighs the problem of having used fetal cell lines in the vaccine development and therefore it is morally acceptable to take the vaccine HOWEVER, I qualify that with, “or it would be if the vaccine were actually for the greater good of the community, which in my opinion is NOT yet proven.”
It doesn’t help the cause of right wing media to make technically inaccurate statements like “the vaccine contains aborted fetal cells”. If you have a moral objection to using a vaccine that used these cell lines in development I have no problem with that. I more than understand. But I’m intolerant of oversimplified, incorrect statements designed to play on emotion. That’s what the left does. I expect better from the right.
Post by: nddons on April 26, 2021, 08:49:30 AM
I said I hadn’t been vaccinated, and she asked me what I was worried about. I told her blood clots. We talked about that, and said she respects anyone who doesn’t want to get it, but for me (due to my age and medical history) she strongly recommended that I get the Pfizer vaccine. For my 33-year old daughter, she said she would be fine if she didn’t get it.
She made a compelling point in our discussion.
Then I see articles like this where the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine could trigger ALS or Alzheimer’s - two of the worst possible ways to die.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/04/report-pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccines-trigger-alzheimers-als-neurological-degenerative-diseases/
Fuuuck. I hate this uncertainty I feel.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 26, 2021, 09:09:29 AM
I’ve been on the fence on this. On Friday I saw my doctor for a pinched nerve in my neck. She’s been our doctor for almost 15 years, and is outstanding.
I said I hadn’t been vaccinated, and she asked me what I was worried about. I told her blood clots. We talked about that, and said she respects anyone who doesn’t want to get it, but for me (due to my age and medical history) she strongly recommended that I get the Pfizer vaccine. For my 33-year old daughter, she said she would be fine if she didn’t get it.
She made a compelling point in our discussion.
Then I see articles like this where the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine could trigger ALS or Alzheimer’s - two of the worst possible ways to die.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/04/report-pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccines-trigger-alzheimers-als-neurological-degenerative-diseases/
Fuuuck. I hate this uncertainty I feel.
It is beyond "interesting" for anyone to claim that the vaccine "could" trigger alzheimers... we don't know what causes alzheimers
Post by: Username on April 26, 2021, 09:12:46 AM
Fuuuck. I hate this uncertainty I feel.Hang in there. The best we can do is collect all the information we can, and then make a choice. You can always get a vaccination later. But once you do, it's too late to go back and undo it. But we'll support you whichever choice you make.
Post by: jb1842 on April 26, 2021, 09:12:52 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on April 26, 2021, 09:45:07 AM
Post by: Jim Logajan on April 26, 2021, 09:48:23 AM
I’ve been on the fence on this. On Friday I saw my doctor for a pinched nerve in my neck. She’s been our doctor for almost 15 years, and is outstanding.
I said I hadn’t been vaccinated, and she asked me what I was worried about. I told her blood clots. We talked about that, and said she respects anyone who doesn’t want to get it, but for me (due to my age and medical history) she strongly recommended that I get the Pfizer vaccine. For my 33-year old daughter, she said she would be fine if she didn’t get it.
She made a compelling point in our discussion.
Then I see articles like this where the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine could trigger ALS or Alzheimer’s - two of the worst possible ways to die.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/04/report-pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccines-trigger-alzheimers-als-neurological-degenerative-diseases/
Fuuuck. I hate this uncertainty I feel.
A copy of the original paper can be found here: https://www.hennessysview.com/images/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf (https://www.hennessysview.com/images/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf)
It is all of 3 pages long. The actual argument is contained in only a couple paragraphs. It boils down to extreme speculation based on previously published speculation. According to the theory proposed, ALS or Alzheimer’s could be triggered in hundreds of millions who get the disease, nevermind the vaccine. In other words, you’re screwed either way and the only solution is to self-isolate forever or somehow avoid getting the disease or a vaccine. Good luck with that.
The author of the paper ends with this incredible claim: ”The vaccine could be a bioweapon and even more dangerous than the original infection.”
Post by: nddons on April 26, 2021, 09:59:35 AM
A copy of the original paper can be found here: https://www.hennessysview.com/images/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf (https://www.hennessysview.com/images/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf)Thanks. I didn’t have time to check that link.
It is all of 3 pages long. The actual argument is contained in only a couple paragraphs. It boils down to extreme speculation based on previously published speculation. According to the theory proposed, ALS or Alzheimer’s could be triggered in hundreds of millions who get the disease, nevermind the vaccine. In other words, you’re screwed either way and the only solution is to self-isolate forever or somehow avoid getting the disease or a vaccine. Good luck with that.
The author of the paper ends with this incredible claim: ”The vaccine could be a bioweapon and even more dangerous than the original infection.”
Post by: Little Joe on April 26, 2021, 10:03:48 AM
A FB friend and church member posted the meme on FB about everyone should be forced to get the vaccine. I was a bit surprised and even more surprised at the number of folks that gave it a thumbs up. The thought of freedom seems to have left the country.I am not only against forcing people to get the vaccine; I am equally outraged of talk about PAYING people to get it.
Let people make their own decision and live (or not) with the consequences. Over time, if the vaccines prove themselves, more people will get it. If however, the vaccines prove to be flawed, at least not everyone will be victimized. Personally, I think the advantages in my case far outweigh the overly sensationalized (IMNSHO) side effects. I'll bet that if you forced everyone to eat kale, you would see a percentage of people that suffer some sort of side effect.
Post by: Lucifer on April 26, 2021, 10:53:54 AM
They have created this distrust along with their propaganda machine media.
Wanna get people to cooperate? Tell them the truth and let the individual decide.
Post by: jb1842 on April 26, 2021, 11:06:33 AM
A FB friend and church member posted the meme on FB about everyone should be forced to get the vaccine. I was a bit surprised and even more surprised at the number of folks that gave it a thumbs up. The thought of freedom seems to have left the country.
I had a friend say the same thing. Really hard to keep my mouth shut over that. I could argue, but I would end up wasting oxygen.
Post by: Rush on April 26, 2021, 11:59:23 AM
A FB friend and church member posted the meme on FB about everyone should be forced to get the vaccine. I was a bit surprised and even more surprised at the number of folks that gave it a thumbs up. The thought of freedom seems to have left the country.
The sacrifice of every U.S. soldier who died or was wounded is in vain if that is true. Those people are throwing it away and spitting on them.
Fuck them.
Post by: Number7 on April 26, 2021, 12:38:19 PM
They are using the vaccine bullshit to permanently ban personal liberty and replace it with totalitarian subservience and so many fucking assholes fall in line and spew ignorance at anyone who dares to think other than what they are ordered to think.
Those of you who think everyone should be forced to vaccinate, why don't you move your pathetic asses to china where you'll fit right in?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on April 26, 2021, 07:38:38 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on April 26, 2021, 07:39:23 PM
Post by: Jim Logajan on April 26, 2021, 07:55:15 PM
Correction from earlier, my FB friend taught me to read for comprehension. :-[
When so many people sincerely believe in outrageous attacks on liberty, it is an easy mistake to make. It is easy to misread things.
Anyway, as a libertarian I object to forced vacations on principle.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bd/60/ef/bd60ef22bdeb4f8ac4613f5daeff67d3.jpg)
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on April 26, 2021, 08:00:00 PM
Post by: Steingar on April 27, 2021, 08:21:50 AM
Post by: Rush on April 27, 2021, 08:44:44 AM
The OP's link is utter drivel. Congrats. Without the vaccine you can contract the virus and inadvertently pass it on to someone else and kill them.
Is there evidence that suggests asymptotic transmission is anything other than rare? I thought the great majority of cases were transmitted to people in close contact with overtly sick people.
Post by: nddons on April 27, 2021, 08:45:50 AM
The OP's link is utter drivel. Congrats. Without the vaccine you can contract the virus and inadvertently pass it on to someone else and kill them.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210427/901e701b87d041cd6015166ea854c3d5.jpg)
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 27, 2021, 09:12:12 AM
Is there evidence that suggests asymptotic transmission is anything other than rare? I thought the great majority of cases were transmitted to people in close contact with overtly sick people.
a 2 April version of the page:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html
"Early data show that the vaccines may help keep people from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated."
Post by: Rush on April 27, 2021, 09:19:30 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 27, 2021, 09:23:13 AM
I bought a new iPhone and it came with the covid contact tracing app, but was turned off by default. It still creeps me out.
fyi - contact tracing was added about a year ago.
Post by: Jim Logajan on April 27, 2021, 09:43:46 AM
I bought a new iPhone and it came with the covid contact tracing app, but was turned off by default. It still creeps me out.
What creeps me out is that my new iPhone 12 mini unlocks whenever I look at it.
(Yeah, I know I can shut that feature off.)
Post by: Rush on April 27, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
What creeps me out is that my new iPhone 12 mini unlocks whenever I look at it.
(Yeah, I know I can shut that feature off.)
!!!!!!!!!
I thought it was bad that mine unlocked when I picked it up. Is it using facial recognition and watching where your eyes are looking? That is extremely creepy!
Post by: Username on April 27, 2021, 10:31:39 AM
The OP's link is utter drivel. Congrats. Without the vaccine you can contract the virus and inadvertently pass it on to someone else and kill them.And according to the CDC if you have the vaccine you can contract the virus and inadvertently pass it on to someone else and kill them. And the vaccine can kill you. The CDC doesn't know if the vaccines even work:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html
Quote
We’re still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After you’ve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions—like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, and avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces—in indoor public places until we know more.
Post by: Jim Logajan on April 27, 2021, 10:33:26 AM
!!!!!!!!!
I thought it was bad that mine unlocked when I picked it up. Is it using facial recognition and watching where your eyes are looking? That is extremely creepy!
Yes, if it is a newer model with that feature.
When you first turned your new phone on, and assuming it supports Face ID, it would have had you look at the phone and turn your head so it could learn your facial features (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208109 (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208109)). Under “Settings” is “Face ID and Passcode” where you can turn Face ID on or off (when off you have to key in your passcode each time.) The eye tracking unlock feature can be independently on or off using “Require Attention for Face ID”. Since it is actually considered an extra layer of security probably best to keep it on if Face ID is on. (I recall reading about kids who wanted to use their parent’s phone and could unlock it just by pointing it toward the parents face - but with the attention feature enabled they would somehow have to get the parent to look toward the phone too but somehow not see the kid holding the phone - unlikely.)
If I am going anyplace where I expect my iPhone to be requested or otherwise lose possession, I’ll first turn off Face ID. For better security (where possible) I’d shut off the phone (as best I understand it, iPhones are hardest to hack into during the initial login/boot phase.)
Post by: Rush on April 27, 2021, 11:24:48 AM
And according to the CDC if you have the vaccine you can contract the virus and inadvertently pass it on to someone else and kill them. And the vaccine can kill you. The CDC doesn't know if the vaccines even work:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html
That's all bullshit! Either the vaccine works or it does not. If it works you go about life. If it does not then you remain at risk. If we have to parse it to death and memorize a labyrinthine set of do's and don't's then what's the point? They're essentially telling us it's half assed at best or they have no fricking CLUE.
If I'm vaccinated I don't have to wear a mask OUTSIDE. Are you f'k'ing kidding me? They're just making shit up. Being outside is vastly safer due to sunshine (a natural disinfectant), vitamin D (an immune system booster) and air circulation! On top of that I got vaccinated, what the hell is the point wearing a mask?
Who sits there and makes up all this shit? Again with the 6 feet apart, an arbitrary number they picked out of thin air. CDC has no credibility, we would all have been better off if they didn't exist. We'd have muddled through but our economy would still be intact and we wouldn't have a demented empty head as a leader and a dangerous communist bitch on deck.
Post by: nddons on April 27, 2021, 11:56:18 AM
That's all bullshit! Either the vaccine works or it does not. If it works you go about life. If it does not then you remain at risk. If we have to parse it to death and memorize a labyrinthine set of do's and don't's then what's the point? They're essentially telling us it's half assed at best or they have no fricking CLUE.A businessman like Donald Trump would be marketing in optimism, not marketing more and more fear and tyranny.
If I'm vaccinated I don't have to wear a mask OUTSIDE. Are you f'k'ing kidding me? They're just making shit up. Being outside is vastly safer due to sunshine (a natural disinfectant), vitamin D (an immune system booster) and air circulation! On top of that I got vaccinated, what the hell is the point wearing a mask?
Who sits there and makes up all this shit? Again with the 6 feet apart, an arbitrary number they picked out of thin air. CDC has no credibility, we would all have been better off if they didn't exist. We'd have muddled through but our economy would still be intact and we wouldn't have a demented empty head as a leader and a dangerous communist bitch on deck.
He also would get more people vaccinated with a bully pulpit reward for doing so - vaccinated? No need for a mask, ever. No need to distance. Go out, have fun. Enjoy life.
Instead we have this arbitrary tyranny. Fuck that shit.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on April 27, 2021, 12:02:11 PM
This is an EXPERIMENTAL vaccine. Its long-term consequences are not known. Its effectiveness is dubious. But the government and liberal sheep and a good hunk of conservatives are wagging their fingers and bleating and virtue signalling and accusing those who eschew the vaccine as dangerous conspiracy theorists.
The bald truth is that trying to vaccinate more than, say, a quarter of the population, is IRRESPONSIBLE INSANITY.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 27, 2021, 12:02:18 PM
And according to the CDC if you have the vaccine you can contract the virus and inadvertently pass it on to someone else and kill them. And the vaccine can kill you. The CDC doesn't know if the vaccines even work:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html
did you miss this part?
"Early data show that the vaccines may help keep people from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated."
Post by: Steingar on April 27, 2021, 12:02:35 PM
And according to the CDC if you have the vaccine you can contract the virus and inadvertently pass it on to someone else and kill them. And the vaccine can kill you. The CDC doesn't know if the vaccines even work:
All the current vaccines in circulation, even Sputnik, will keep you out of the hospital nearly 100%. Not so certain about the sinovaccines in this regard, but I don't think they're in circulation in North America. Moreover any viral infection will be short-lived, though you are correct. It is possible to transmit it, though I don't know if it has ever happened. In the meantime if you are unvaccinated like the idiot OP (I'll never forget tomato paste on pizza) you can acquire an infection of one of the most infectious diseases known and pass it onto others during the entirety of your infection, which can last weeks. You get to endanger all those around you so you can persist in your idiot little ideology.
Post by: Number7 on April 27, 2021, 12:37:31 PM
mikey is a Communist FUCKING TROLL.
Don't Feed The FUCKING COMMUNIST, UNINFORMED, PLAGIARIZING, TROLL!!!
It's ok,pathetic, little mikey.
Go ahead and report us to your racist, nazi friends, and the communist democrat party.
We know you have so little integrity and absolutely no sens,e so it won;t come as a surprise.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 27, 2021, 12:50:45 PM
All the current vaccines in circulation, even Sputnik, will keep you out of the hospital nearly 100%. Not so certain about the sinovaccines in this regard, but I don't think they're in circulation in North America. Moreover any viral infection will be short-lived, though you are correct. It is possible to transmit it, though I don't know if it has ever happened. In the meantime if you are unvaccinated like the idiot OP (I'll never forget tomato paste on pizza) you can acquire an infection of one of the most infectious diseases known and pass it onto others during the entirety of your infection, which can last weeks. You get to endanger all those around you so you can persist in your idiot little ideology.
exaggerating the seriousness of COVID-19 does not lend credibility to your claims.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm
"COVID-19 seems to spread more easily than flu ...."
"While COVID-19 and flu viruses are thought to spread in similar ways, COVID-19 is more contagious among certain populations and age groups than flu"
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html
"How easily a virus spreads from person to person can vary. The virus that causes COVID-19 appears to spread more efficiently than influenza but not as efficiently as measles, which is among the most contagious viruses known to affect people."
Post by: Number7 on April 27, 2021, 12:54:19 PM
Is Probably Just Super Ugly
(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/article-8487-1.jpg)
Post by: Steingar on April 28, 2021, 07:26:48 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on April 28, 2021, 07:40:15 AM
Small pox was a virus that killed and hurt all kinds of people. It was a horrible virus. It is now gone because of vaccines. Polio used to kill and maim thousands of children, now it is gone in most parts of the world because of vaccines. Those who argue against vaccines are blithering idiots.
Even experimental vaccines?
Do you condemn people who choose to be in the control group?
Wouldn’t a control group for an experimental vaccine make sense?
Would you force the entire global population to fly in experimental aircraft?
Post by: Little Joe on April 28, 2021, 08:08:09 AM
Small pox was a virus that killed and hurt all kinds of people. It was a horrible virus. It is now gone because of vaccines. Polio used to kill and maim thousands of children, now it is gone in most parts of the world because of vaccines. Those who argue against vaccines are blithering idiots.How did the consequences of contracting Small Pox or Polio compare with COVID? Yeah, I know; PEOPLE DIE FROM COVID! But only a small percentage. How may asymptomatic cases of polio or smallpox were there?
Post by: Steingar on April 28, 2021, 01:29:52 PM
Even experimental vaccines?
Experimental? The mRNA vaccines have only been given to hundreds of millions of people!
Do you condemn people who choose to be in the control group?
Idiot, no one chooses to be in the experimental or placebo group. Try learning how things are done before spouting off.
Wouldn’t a control group for an experimental vaccine make sense?
Blithering idiot, there were control groups. I know some of the folks in them. I would have happily volunteered but the FAA took a dim view of the whole exercise.
I doubt you even know how a vaccine works. Enjoy your puree'
Would you force the entire global population to fly in experimental aircraft?I'd happily fly in most experimental aircraft, since many are proven designs, just like the vaccines.
Post by: Username on April 28, 2021, 02:31:46 PM
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 28, 2021, 02:36:15 PM
The mRNA vaccines have only been given to hundreds of millions of people!
AS AN EXPERIMENT!
Post by: Lucifer on April 28, 2021, 02:42:44 PM
You can always tell that he knows his position is untenable when he resorts to personal insults.
Yep, even his students have commented on that.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on April 28, 2021, 02:44:14 PM
Experimental? The mRNA vaccines have only been given to hundreds of millions of people!
Idiot, no one chooses to be in the experimental or placebo group. Try learning how things are done before spouting off.
Blithering idiot, there were control groups. I know some of the folks in them. I would have happily volunteered but the FAA took a dim view of the whole exercise.
I doubt you even know how a vaccine works. Enjoy your puree'
I'd happily fly in most experimental aircraft, since many are proven designs, just like the vaccines.
Yes, 230 million, from December 2020 to April 26, 2021.
The number of people the vaccine has been given to has zero to do with the fact that it currently is classified as experimental. Never has a vaccine for a coronavirus been successfully developed. A study by Harvard found a significant underreporting of adverse effects. If I have a serious reaction to it, the manufacturer has no liability. Even CDC is, staggeringly, calling EVERY SINGLE POST-VACCINE DEATH “coincidence.”
You are wrong. Because these vaccines are experimental, I am choosing to be in the control group. Let the research begin.
I didn’t ask if YOU would fly in an experimental plane. I asked if you would force the entire global population to do so. Even you should be able to see that the greater the numbers, the greater the risks.
Next time you’re complaining about name calling, recall your post here.
Post by: nddons on April 28, 2021, 03:18:10 PM
Yes, 230 million, from December 2020 to April 26, 2021.(https://media2.giphy.com/media/dIVcWFzAvU49apdTpB/giphy.gif)
The number of people the vaccine has been given to has zero to do with the fact that it currently is classified as experimental. Never has a vaccine for a coronavirus been successfully developed. A study by Harvard found a significant underreporting of adverse effects. If I have a serious reaction to it, the manufacturer has no liability. Even CDC is, staggeringly, calling EVERY SINGLE POST-VACCINE DEATH “coincidence.”
You are wrong. Because these vaccines are experimental, I am choosing to be in the control group. Let the research begin.
I didn’t ask if YOU would fly in an experimental plane. I asked if you would force the entire global population to do so. Even you should be able to see that the greater the numbers, the greater the risks.
Next time you’re complaining about name calling, recall your post here.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 28, 2021, 03:30:38 PM
Post by: nddons on April 28, 2021, 03:33:08 PM
I admit I don't quite get that animated gif...Mic drop?
Here you go. Maybe this will help.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o7qDEq2bMbcbPRQ2c/giphy.gif)
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 28, 2021, 03:51:30 PM
edit: ok - I googled "mic drop"
I guess I just don't get into that kind of nonsense...
Post by: jb1842 on April 28, 2021, 03:58:19 PM
Experimental? The mRNA vaccines have only been given to hundreds of millions of people!
Idiot, no one chooses to be in the experimental or placebo group. Try learning how things are done before spouting off.
Blithering idiot, there were control groups. I know some of the folks in them. I would have happily volunteered but the FAA took a dim view of the whole exercise.
I doubt you even know how a vaccine works. Enjoy your puree'
I'd happily fly in most experimental aircraft, since many are proven designs, just like the vaccines.
If vaccines are so proven, then why does the CDC have a whole section that deals with reporting and dealing with adverse reactions to vaccines?
Post by: bflynn on April 28, 2021, 05:36:36 PM
If vaccines are so proven, then why does the CDC have a whole section that deals with reporting and dealing with adverse reactions to vaccines?
That isn’t specific to COVID vaccines. They cover all vaccines, dating back decades.
Post by: Mase on April 28, 2021, 06:32:57 PM
Post by: Rush on April 29, 2021, 01:58:42 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on April 29, 2021, 02:35:52 AM
I find it hilarious and ironic that Steingar is vigorously defending the vaccine that is here only because of Donald J. Trump and his Operation Warp Speed, and all us Trump supporters are looking askance at it.Conservatives aren’t sheep.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 29, 2021, 04:38:23 AM
I find it hilarious and ironic that Steingar is vigorously defending the vaccine that is here only because of Donald J. Trump and his Operation Warp Speed, and all us Trump supporters are looking askance at it.
not all "Trump supporters" are opposed to being vaccinated.
And there are certainly at lot of liberals and registered democrats that have been reluctant (and not because it's something President Trump brought us). Here in maskachusetts, there are "communities" that have been slow to accept vaccinations... so much so that the State has created outreach programs to get trusted community leaders to get the message out and also have special vaccination sites gears to those "communities". And those "communities" would hardly be suspected of voting for President Trump.
Post by: Steingar on April 29, 2021, 05:06:39 AM
Yes, 230 million, from December 2020 to April 26, 2021.
The number of people the vaccine has been given to has zero to do with the fact that it currently is classified as experimental. Never has a vaccine for a coronavirus been successfully developed. A study by Harvard found a significant underreporting of adverse effects. If I have a serious reaction to it, the manufacturer has no liability. Even CDC is, staggeringly, calling EVERY SINGLE POST-VACCINE DEATH “coincidence.”
You are wrong. Because these vaccines are experimental, I am choosing to be in the control group. Let the research begin.
I didn’t ask if YOU would fly in an experimental plane. I asked if you would force the entire global population to do so. Even you should be able to see that the greater the numbers, the greater the risks.
Next time you’re complaining about name calling, recall your post here.
Again, the government has all sorts of ways to classify things that don't make a lot of sense. Do you really think designs from Vans are poorly worked put and unsafe? Really? Do you really think marijuana and heroin are equally dangerous? Really?
The experimental designation came from the fact that the way vaccines are normally tested takes a long, long time. The tests for the mRNA vaccines abrogated that period because of the urgency the situation. I was a bit worried myself at first, mRNA therapeutics hadn't been as widely deployed as they've been for COVID. But the fact of the matter is these vaccines work with astonishing efficacy. Yes there are side effects, I ought to know. But the side effects of the vaccine are neither long lived nor contagious, things we can't say for the virus. Again they've been distributed to hundreds of millions with few dangerous side effects. We're climbing out of the pandemic because of them.
Do what you want, I don't know you and I don't care to. I just feel really sorry for. those around you. I suppose I shouldn't, if they aren't willing to take a freely available vaccine I suppose I should just let Mr. Darwin sort the whole thing out. I feel really badly for all the medical personnel who are going to have to treat you and those around you.
Post by: Lucifer on April 29, 2021, 05:16:38 AM
Again, the government has all sorts of ways to classify things that don't make a lot of sense. Do you really think designs from Vans are poorly worked put and unsafe? Really? Do you really think marijuana and heroin are equally dangerous? Really?
Not sure where that is coming from. Can you quote directly where Becky made those claims?
But the fact of the matter is these vaccines work with astonishing efficacy. Yes there are side effects, I ought to know.
You should, but you continually prove you know nothing if very little about the subject you attempt to teach.
But the side effects of the vaccine are neither long lived nor contagious, things we can't say for the virus. Again they've been distributed to hundreds of millions with few dangerous side effects.
Those folks who have buried their family members who died from the vaccine, and those who suffered hospitilization, and even those who are now disabled because of the vaccine will take comfort in knowing this. ::)
Do what you want, I don't know you and I don't care to. I just feel really sorry for. those around you. I suppose I shouldn't, if they aren't willing to take a freely available vaccine I suppose I should just let Mr. Darwin sort the whole thing out. I feel really badly for all the medical personnel who are going to have to treat you and those around you.
No you don't. You cling to an ideology that is hell bent on control and has aligned itself with Marxism. You have enjoyed the newfound way your fellow travelers have stomped on individual rights. You are an avid devotee to Pope Tony and the Branch Covidians.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on April 29, 2021, 05:18:09 AM
I find it hilarious and ironic that Steingar is vigorously defending the vaccine that is here only because of Donald J. Trump and his Operation Warp Speed, and all us Trump supporters are looking askance at it.Not looking askance, just not interested. I will keep doing what I have done for the last year. I do not get flu shots either.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on April 29, 2021, 06:04:00 AM
I feel really badly for all the medical personnel who are going to have to treat you and those around you.
If they are vaccinated, they have nothing to worry about, right?
Post by: Rush on April 29, 2021, 06:22:44 AM
Not looking askance, just not interested. I will keep doing what I have done for the last year. I do not get flu shots either.
not all "Trump supporters" are opposed to being vaccinated.
And there are certainly at lot of liberals and registered democrats that have been reluctant (and not because it's something President Trump brought us). Here in maskachusetts, there are "communities" that have been slow to accept vaccinations... so much so that the State has created outreach programs to get trusted community leaders to get the message out and also have special vaccination sites gears to those "communities". And those "communities" would hardly be suspected of voting for President Trump.
I overstated to underprove. Speaking in generalities. Wasn't it the liberals who were all anit-vax back in the day?
Post by: Little Joe on April 29, 2021, 06:29:23 AM
I agree that the panic over COVID is overblown, but I also think the fear of the vaccines is overblown. So today, I'm going to go do something that is completely safe. I'm going to go up in the Bonanza with my wife as pilot. No COVID up there.
Post by: Rush on April 29, 2021, 06:36:30 AM
I find it interesting that people that scoff at the seriousness of COVID by pointing out the low mortality rates are afraid of the vaccine due to blood clots. What is the rate of blood clots to vaccines?
I agree that the panic over COVID is overblown, but I also think the fear of the vaccines is overblown. So today, I'm going to go do something that is completely safe. I'm going to go up in the Bonanza with my wife as pilot. No COVID up there.
Wait wut? Your wife as pilot.......
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on April 29, 2021, 07:01:27 AM
Again, the government has all sorts of ways to classify things that don't make a lot of sense. Do you really think designs from Vans are poorly worked put and unsafe? Really? Do you really think marijuana and heroin are equally dangerous? Really?
The experimental designation came from the fact that the way vaccines are normally tested takes a long, long time. The tests for the mRNA vaccines abrogated that period because of the urgency the situation. I was a bit worried myself at first, mRNA therapeutics hadn't been as widely deployed as they've been for COVID. But the fact of the matter is these vaccines work with astonishing efficacy. Yes there are side effects, I ought to know. But the side effects of the vaccine are neither long lived nor contagious, things we can't say for the virus. Again they've been distributed to hundreds of millions with few dangerous side effects. We're climbing out of the pandemic because of them.
Do what you want, I don't know you and I don't care to. I just feel really sorry for. those around you. I suppose I shouldn't, if they aren't willing to take a freely available vaccine I suppose I should just let Mr. Darwin sort the whole thing out. I feel really badly for all the medical personnel who are going to have to treat you and those around you.
Not sure what wandering path your brain went down there, and why you pluck things out of the air that I never said nor even implied, but whatever.
You claim the vaccines have no long-term side effects, but with what evidence do you support that claim, given that we’re only five months into their use?
We’re not climbing out of this pandemic because of the vaccines. Vaccinated people OFFICIALLY are urged to keep masking and social distancing! The flu disappeared. Viruses mutate. People develop immunity. A puzzlement (but not really, to those of us who question) is why case rates in some countries or areas go up with vaccination rates!
I suppose you feel badly, too, for the medical personnel who may treat me who didn’t get the vaccine themselves. That would be about ONE THIRD of the medical personnel at our local hospital. I did have a procedure in February and both nurses attending me declined the vaccine and strongly expressed their position against it.
Post by: Little Joe on April 29, 2021, 07:46:38 AM
Wait wut? Your wife as pilot.......Yep. One of the reasons I keep her.
She got her PPL at 53 yrs.
She got her IFR rating at 500 hours.
She now has over 1,200 hours.
We are flying Florida to Nevada in two weeks. Stopping and spending the night in Oklahoma, Colorado, and Utah.
Then in Aug/Sep we are flying to New England to pick up the last 6 states we need to fill in our 49 state map. We got Alaska and a half dozen states 2 years ago.
Post by: Rush on April 29, 2021, 07:51:28 AM
Yep. One of the reasons I keep her.
She got her PPL at 53 yrs.
She got her IFR rating at 500 hours.
She now has over 1,200 hours.
We are flying Florida to Nevada in two weeks. Stopping and spending the night in Oklahoma, Colorado, and Utah.
Then in Aug/Sep we are flying to New England to pick up the last 6 states we need to fill in our 49 state map. We got Alaska and a half dozen states 2 years ago.
How come I didn’t already know that about you? (Maybe because all we talk about is politics lol!).
So what you’re saying is you’re leaving out Hawaii. Racist! ;D
Post by: Steingar on April 29, 2021, 08:30:10 AM
Not sure what wandering path your brain went down there, and why you pluck things out of the air that I never said nor even implied, but whatever.You decided that that government's labelling of the current vaccines as "experimental" denigrated their value. I pointed out the government classifies all kinds of things strangely. A vaccine that's proved safe and efficacious in millions is not "experimental" in the book of Steingar. I suspect the Book of Becky hasn't been colored in yet.
You claim the vaccines have no long-term side effects, but with what evidence do you support that claim, given that we’re only five months into their use?First, the mechanism of vaccination. mRNAs, even the strengthened ones use din the vaccines, are ephemeral things. What is going to cause the long term effect? Unless you're a believer in homeopathy there isn't much. And in the whole time of their use no one has reported any late term effects at all. Meanwhile, COVID causes all kinds of devastating long term effects. You logic is unsurprisingly faulty.
We’re not climbing out of this pandemic because of the vaccines. Vaccinated people OFFICIALLY are urged to keep masking and social distancing! The flu disappeared. Viruses mutate. People develop immunity. A puzzlement (but not really, to those of us who question) is why case rates in some countries or areas go up with vaccination rates!The economy is recovering, and vaccinated people are moving about quite a bit more now than when the pandemic was at its height. Hospitalizations are going down too. Viruses mutate, but you don't know enough about virology to know why it doesn't matter in this case and I'm tried of explaining things to you.
I suppose you feel badly, too, for the medical personnel who may treat me who didn’t get the vaccine themselves. That would be about ONE THIRD of the medical personnel at our local hospital. I did have a procedure in February and both nurses attending me declined the vaccine and strongly expressed their position against it.They're far more likely to catch the COVID at home than at work if they're doing things right. Try asking the doctors if they got vaccinated if you really want the skinny. I suspect strongly we're going to h ave another surge before this is done. Thankfully I'll not be part of it. Like I said, do what you want.
Post by: Number7 on April 29, 2021, 11:23:22 AM
mikey is channeling every talking point in the liberal hemisphere....
What a maroon.
Post by: Rush on April 29, 2021, 11:58:42 AM
Post by: Lucifer on April 30, 2021, 04:24:37 AM
Post by: Steingar on April 30, 2021, 05:09:51 AM
Hahahahahahahaha.....And Number 7 lays on an insult. I am SO surprised. I could have a heart attack from the huge surprise. WHoever would have thought he'd do a thing like that?
mikey is channeling every talking point in the liberal hemisphere....
What a maroon.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on April 30, 2021, 05:44:13 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on April 30, 2021, 05:48:27 AM
And Number 7 lays on an insult. I am SO surprised. I could have a heart attack from the huge surprise. WHoever would have thought he'd do a thing like that?Your sarcasm is lost on the rest of us. You and Number 7 are the forum name callers and insult exchangers. It does mar your credibility.
Yours, Becky ... recently labeled by Professor Origami Stones(TM)* as an idiot and a blithering idiot
*An epithet like this one comes only rarely in a lifetime, and was not plagiarized. I stand by it as creative and fitting.
Post by: Rush on April 30, 2021, 05:50:06 AM
I think Becky and Michael are both partly right and partly not and I’m supposed to be working and not goofing off so maybe I’ll explain later. Carry on.
I’ll just address two points, one where Becky is right and one where Michael is right.
Becky is right that it’s essentially a massive experiment. This is the first time this technology has been used on humans, and the initial human trials were greatly reduced in scope for the purpose of getting it out to the people for what are essentially social control, political and profit making reasons. When you account for the fact that there are effective treatments that, if promoted like the vaccine is, would probably result in an equivalent overall survival rate and herd immunity would be reached naturally, it’s hard to justify rushing an unproven technology on millions of people other than it makes certain corporations and political grifters richer.
You can argue about the definition of words, but relative to other new drugs, vaccines or treatments, the vaccine was released to the general public sooner than normal, that’s what emergency authorization is. If you define “experimental” strictly in scientific terms, no, it’s not a designed and controlled trial that happens to have hundreds of millions of subjects so Michael is right, but Becky is right in that neither is it in a category of something vetted for mass distribution like we usually do, so it can loosely be considered to be an experiment “in the wild” as we definitely do not know the long term effects on humans. So this one is given to Becky.
Having said all that, Michael is right that the mRNA technology itself has been around at least two decades, and we know a lot about it, including the fact that it cannot enter the cell nucleus and integrate with the human genome. It does its job and then becomes inert if you will. While there could be unintended consequences, it is unlikely enough to directly cause long term effects that the benefits outweigh the risks. If, for whatever reason, the powers that be refuse to give the public the simple, cheap, effective treatments for covid, or just open the economy and let natural herd immunity proceed, then mass vaccination seems the only pathway to getting us opened back up which is vital to avoid global economic catastrophe.
The damage is done, the Pandora’s box was opened, and the public has been gaslighted to the point that vaccination is now the only answer, the holy grail, is the security blanket they need to feel somewhat safe and normal again or at least they will if the powers that be would only stop undermining the whole thing by telling us we still need masks, not one but two for fucks sake, can still be contagious even after being vaccinated, etc.
The past is past, water under the bridge. We must now proceed based on current reality. Michael is correct that the risk of the vaccine is lower than the risk of the disease, based on the current reality. Other than for those with underlying conditions or who have long term effects from the disease itself, the biggest problem isn’t the disease itself: it is that there are massive and malignant unforeseen consequences of the lockdowns, and the priority now must be to end them completely, and for better or worse, the vaccine has been accepted as the only way we might be able to get back to something resembling normal. So this one goes to Michael.
Post by: Username on April 30, 2021, 05:56:57 AM
The economy is recovering, and vaccinated people are moving about quite a bit more now than when the pandemic was at its height. Hospitalizations are going down too. Viruses mutate, but you don't know enough about virology to know why it doesn't matter in this case and I'm tried of explaining things to you.You do understand that correlation does not demonstrate causality? Perhaps people are moving about quite a bit more now and the economy is recovering not because of the vaccine but because people are finally tired of doing what their government masters demand and are starting to think for themselves. They are realizing that the virus is not as bad as they have been told (a 99.7% recovery rate) and are tired of being locked down and lectured to. They have finally had enough of no job, no friends, no life. This is what a popular revolt against the government looks like. Not with a bang, but many individuals thinking for themselves and moving as a group toward freedom.
Post by: bflynn on April 30, 2021, 07:25:50 AM
And Number 7 lays on an insult. I am SO surprised. I could have a heart attack from the huge surprise. WHoever would have thought he'd do a thing like that?
You know he's going to do it. You know it's going to be childish. He is going to lash out, he can't control himself. I don't even read what he writes anymore, he's a zero in my world.
Why do you pay him any attention?
Post by: Number7 on April 30, 2021, 09:28:54 AM
You know he's going to do it. You know it's going to be childish. He is going to lash out, he can't control himself. I don't even read what he writes anymore, he's a zero in my world.
Why do you pay him any attention?
Ahhh... you poor pussies.
Post by: Steingar on April 30, 2021, 10:57:30 AM
You know he's going to do it. You know it's going to be childish. He is going to lash out, he can't control himself. I don't even read what he writes anymore, he's a zero in my world.Good point, can't seem to help myself. It's so pervasive I've run clean out of joke insults.
Why do you pay him any attention?
Post by: Rush on April 30, 2021, 11:09:40 AM
Good point, can't seem to help myself. It's so pervasive I've run clean out of joke insults.
Maybe you’re like me and have nothing better to do on a workday except minimize the actual work you get done.
Post by: Number7 on April 30, 2021, 04:36:38 PM
Good point, can't seem to help myself. It's so pervasive I've run clean out of joke insults.
And then There is all the pressure lying about shit and claiming other shit you post is yours when you stole it.
Post by: Steingar on April 30, 2021, 06:27:13 PM
Maybe you’re like me and have nothing better to do on a workday except minimize the actual work you get done.I should just quit this site altogether, given the level of discourse.
Post by: nddons on April 30, 2021, 06:31:32 PM
I should just quit this site altogether, given the level of discourse.This is not an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure.
Post by: Rush on April 30, 2021, 06:31:48 PM
I should just quit this site altogether, given the level of discourse.
Noooooooooooooo!!!!!
Post by: Lucifer on April 30, 2021, 06:41:09 PM
I should just quit this site altogether, given the level of discourse.
Playing the victim, again?
Post by: nddons on April 30, 2021, 06:50:22 PM
Noooooooooooooo!!!!!He wants you to say that. Like all false victims.
Post by: Rush on May 01, 2021, 04:00:13 AM
He wants you to say that. Like all false victims.
I don’t care if he wants me to say that or not. I don’t want him to leave. This place gets more boring when he’s gone.
Post by: Little Joe on May 01, 2021, 04:43:38 AM
I should just quit this site altogether, given the level of discourse.No, you should stay. Most of the stuff you say is pure blind partisan drivel, but occasionally you say something that makes sense and the rest of us make ourselves look like fools trying to prove you wrong. That is where the real entertainment here is.
Post by: nddons on May 01, 2021, 07:39:38 AM
Post by: Number7 on May 02, 2021, 07:11:41 AM
Good point, can't seem to help myself. It's so pervasive I've run clean out of joke insults.
I doubt you have the intellectual capacity to understand simple words but I will try.
You are the enemy, mikey.
It’s that simple. You and your fake peer group hate everything good about America, even though your parasitic existence is dependent on us funding you.
When I scathingly point out your unending hypocrisy, lies and plagiarism, I’m responding to the enemy, not someone worthy of respect, courtesy, or tolerance.
When you post your screeds of stupidity, you simply remind those of us unintimidated by th liberal bullshit that is designed to silence any unapproved opinion.
So go fuck your self with a rusty shovel blade, crawl into your pathetic safe space and shrivel up and die for all I care, but don’t expect respect.
I don’t respect cowardice, intolerance and hypocrisy...
In case you didn’t notice, it’s all you bring to the discussion.
I too my oath seriously, to ‘Defend the Constitution from all
ENEMIES foreign and domestic...’
You, steingar, and your pathetic peer group of racist, intolerant, lazy, useless, pigs, are nothing if not a sick cabal of brainwashed, violent, hateful, jealous beyond belief, domestic enemies.
Post by: Lucifer on May 03, 2021, 05:07:42 AM
Post by: Rush on May 03, 2021, 05:31:05 AM
I doubt you have the intellectual capacity to understand simple words but I will try.
You are the enemy, mikey.
It’s that simple. You and your fake peer group hate everything good about America, even though your parasitic existence is dependent on us funding you.
When I scathingly point out your unending hypocrisy, lies and plagiarism, I’m responding to the enemy, not someone worthy of respect, courtesy, or tolerance.
When you post your screeds of stupidity, you simply remind those of us unintimidated by th liberal bullshit that is designed to silence any unapproved opinion.
So go fuck your self with a rusty shovel blade, crawl into your pathetic safe space and shrivel up and die for all I care, but don’t expect respect.
I don’t respect cowardice, intolerance and hypocrisy...
In case you didn’t notice, it’s all you bring to the discussion.
I too my oath seriously, to ‘Defend the Constitution from all
ENEMIES foreign and domestic...’
You, steingar, and your pathetic peer group of racist, intolerant, lazy, useless, pigs, are nothing if not a sick cabal of brainwashed, violent, hateful, jealous beyond belief, domestic enemies.
Amazing how the right is officially labeled the domestic enemy but it’s the right defending rule by Constitution, while the left is engaging in overt insurrection in the cities, end runs around the Constitution in elections, suppression of the first, second and fourth amendment rights, open plans to use the courts to “change society” rather than uphold the Constitution. It is the left that are the domestic enemy.
But the domestic enemy has taken control of the levers of power and now claims the levers of power (with them in control) ARE the legitimate government. Then, like lipstick on a pig, they falsely claim they’re defending the Constitution.
Post by: Lucifer on May 03, 2021, 05:58:42 AM
Amazing how the right is officially labeled the domestic enemy but it’s the right defending rule by Constitution, while the left is engaging in overt insurrection in the cities, end runs around the Constitution in elections, suppression of the first, second and fourth amendment rights, open plans to use the courts to “change society” rather than uphold the Constitution. It is the left that are the domestic enemy.
But the domestic enemy has taken control of the levers of power and now claims the levers of power (with them in control) ARE the legitimate government. Then, like lipstick on a pig, they falsely claim they’re defending the Constitution.
1930's Germany. They used many of the same tactics we are seeing today.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on May 03, 2021, 06:36:42 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-warns-unvaccinated-kill-grandmothers
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 04, 2021, 07:25:56 PM
Rush and Stan, this might help. I think I’m now implacably against this thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz0H5vMJFMc&t=4s
The study to which he is referring.
https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/
Post by: Jim Logajan on May 04, 2021, 09:11:14 PM
Steingar will be along to tell us the Salk Institute is a bunch of rubes.
Rush and Stan, this might help. I think I’m now implacably against this thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz0H5vMJFMc&t=4s
The study to which he is referring.
https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/
(1) No one I know who has gotten the vaccine is exhibiting vascular illness. I know I haven’t. My wife hasn’t. He’s claiming a problem exists that did not exhibit during testing or after wide spread introduction - so wtf??
(2) This may come as a shock to anyone who is unclear on all that happens when any vaccine is administered, but basically all the cells that are infected by the vaccine are sacrificed - that is, the immune system (or the virus itself) effectively kills them. It matters not a wit whether they produce the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein or proteins from a flu virus, or measles, or whatever: they will be killed. That’s the whole idea. He’s basically saying this is bad - well if that is the case, every other vaccine is bad and shouldn’t be taken. And if you don’t and you get the disease, well you are now worse off.
(3) His reasoning is flawed as to benefit/risk analysis: he is basically making the case that it is better to actually remain at risk of getting the disease than to take the vaccine! He even admits there is no replication of the spike protein mRNA because the other proteins in the virus that are needed to accomplish that are missing. There is no such limitation on replication for the real virus - it will spread all over the place until the immune system stops it (by first killing a shit load of cells in the nose and lungs where the infection started, possibly causing permanent or long term damage) or the person dies.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 05, 2021, 04:27:12 AM
Post by: Steingar on May 05, 2021, 08:11:23 AM
Steingar will be along to tell us the Salk Institute is a bunch of rubes.
Steingar is here to tell you that the Salk Institute is full of some of America's best scientists. Worked there for a short time. Neat place, looks like somewhere Mr. Spock would beam down. No one paying attention would be surprised that COVID is a vascular illness, I myself have thought that for some time. Nice to have a mechanism put to it though. Fast too.
The Spike protein that causes all this mischief is the target for all the vaccines for which I have information. It can't do a lot of damage when its surrounded by antibodies. That's the point of the vaccination you are so set on not getting. Good luck with that.
Post by: Lucifer on May 06, 2021, 01:00:49 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 06, 2021, 01:04:52 PM
Of course, if none of them got the vaccine, 3 million people will die.
Big difference between dying because of covid-19 and having covid-19 when dying.
same problem with the vaccine...
Post by: Jim Logajan on May 06, 2021, 04:00:00 PM
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/tucker-carlson-shatters-media-silence-why-are-thousands-of-people-dying-from-covid-vaccine/
I don’t know about the validity of the death stats, but I notice that article mentions tinnitus being reported. Since I recently came down with a mild case of that, I’m inclined to believe it is a possible side effect of the vaccine. However, I have rheumatoid arthritis which is a known cause of the same symptom. Speculating: perhaps those who have (or would eventually exhibit) an autoimmune disease are likely to exhibit tinnitus triggered by the vaccine. It looks like tinnitus is a known symptom of the viral disease too, so presumably a person would get that symptom regardless of what they did - only remaining option is avoid getting sick without taking a vaccine.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on May 06, 2021, 06:07:21 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 06, 2021, 07:15:02 PM
I should just quit this site altogether, given the level of discourse.
Given your level of discourse on POA, why are you complaining about pilotspin?
Post by: nudnik on May 06, 2021, 10:29:35 PM
A FB friend and church member posted the meme on FB about everyone should be forced to get the vaccine. I was a bit surprised and even more surprised at the number of folks that gave it a thumbs up. The thought of freedom seems to have left the country.
We still have freedom. Today I fired all my anti-vaxer employees.
Free enterprise FTW!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 07, 2021, 04:15:57 AM
We still have freedom. Today I fired all my anti-vaxer employees.I’m guessing you just lost some of your best people. I’d at least try to have some respect for people who think critically enough to decline at present “the biggest drug trial” in the history of the world.
Free enterprise FTW!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 07, 2021, 04:25:50 AM
Here, fully vaccinated teachers and nursing home employees are coming down with it, to the “surprise” of administrators, who have to issue facility shutdowns or quarantines and increased safety (again) because of it.
Hence the continued mask wearing and distancing of the vaccinated?
Honestly, this plague is, after all, a CORONAVIRUS. The same type of virus that causes colds. Have we ever developed a successful vaccine for colds? No. Now Fauci is hinting that “herd immunity” for COVID is not possible.
Post by: nudnik on May 07, 2021, 05:10:48 AM
I’m guessing you just lost some of your best people. I’d at least try to have some respect for people who think critically enough to decline at present “the biggest drug trial” in the history of the world.
Each of those employees happen to be against ALL vaccines, not just COVID. Their objections had nothing to do with "biggest drug trial".
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 07, 2021, 05:56:11 AM
Stats coming in from all over the world are just bizarre. Israel, India, Seychelles. Outbreaks of COVID among groups of the vaccinated. Countries using the Chinese vaccine especially.
Here, fully vaccinated teachers and nursing home employees are coming down with it, to the “surprise” of administrators, who have to issue facility shutdowns or quarantines and increased safety (again) because of it.
Hence the continued mask wearing and distancing of the vaccinated?
Honestly, this plague is, after all, a CORONAVIRUS. The same type of virus that causes colds. Have we ever developed a successful vaccine for colds? No. Now Fauci is hinting that “herd immunity” for COVID is not possible.
Data source for claims of "outbreaks" in Israel?
Israel has about the same number of people as maskachusetts and, if world-o-meter is a reliable source, Israel has far fewer cases and deaths than maskachusetts in the past 2 weeks. And argueably, maskachusetts is doing well wrt cases, deaths, etc.
Post by: Rush on May 07, 2021, 05:57:51 AM
Post by: Lucifer on May 07, 2021, 06:36:11 AM
All the social distancing, shutdowns and mask wearing is actually going to result in this virus evolving to be more easily transmitted. We are messing with Mother Nature.
The people behind this insanity don't want it to go away, hence why you are seeing all of the quackery science.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 07, 2021, 07:09:59 AM
We still have freedom. Today I fired all my anti-vaxer employees.
Free enterprise FTW!
I predict we will see a lot more firings. Because what employer is going to take on the responsibilities inherent in requiring employees to get the experimental jab?
Here they are:
https://www.coreysdigs.com/solutions/form-for-employees-whose-employers-are-requiring-covid-19-injections/
I’m sure the Regime won’t condemn nudnik for his firings. But if someone were to make NOT having the vax a requirement for employment, a hue and cry over DISCRIMINATION! instantly would be raised.
Post by: Lucifer on May 07, 2021, 07:20:11 AM
I predict we will see a lot more firings. Because what employer is going to take on the responsibilities inherent in requiring employees to get the experimental jab?
Here they are:
https://www.coreysdigs.com/solutions/form-for-employees-whose-employers-are-requiring-covid-19-injections/
I’m sure the Regime won’t condemn nudnik for his firings. But if someone were to make NOT having the vax a requirement for employment, a hue and cry over DISCRIMINATION! instantly would be raised.
Take anything nudnik post here with a huge grain of salt.
Post by: nudnik on May 07, 2021, 07:24:50 AM
All the social distancing, shutdowns and mask wearing is actually going to result in this virus evolving to be more easily transmitted. We are messing with Mother Nature.
Mother Nature is us living in a cave somewhere in Africa and at most meet 100 other people during our lifetime.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 07, 2021, 07:42:18 AM
Data source for claims of "outbreaks" in Israel?
Israel has about the same number of people as maskachusetts and, if world-o-meter is a reliable source, Israel has far fewer cases and deaths than maskachusetts in the past 2 weeks. And argueably, maskachusetts is doing well wrt cases, deaths, etc.
I’m getting the convoluted data convolutedly and am almost going insane trying to think this all through. Part of the problem is likely that the pattern or intent behind all of this just might be so horrific that my mind is refusing to acknowledge it.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/05/mainstream_media_dont_want_you_to_know_the_difference_between_vaccines_that_work_and_vaccines_that_dont.html
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 07, 2021, 08:59:02 AM
I’m getting the convoluted data convolutedly and am almost going insane trying to think this all through. Part of the problem is likely that the pattern or intent behind all of this just might be so horrific that my mind is refusing to acknowledge it.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/05/mainstream_media_dont_want_you_to_know_the_difference_between_vaccines_that_work_and_vaccines_that_dont.html
I can't quite follow how that article's headline makes any sense wrt the contents of the article.
Is the point that MSM doesn't want to tell people that the Chinese vaccine doesn't work?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 07, 2021, 10:18:54 AM
I can't quite follow how that article's headline makes any sense wrt the contents of the article.
Is the point that MSM doesn't want to tell people that the Chinese vaccine doesn't work?
There does seem to be an emphasis on “just get the vaccine” rather than ever telling you the vast differences between them.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on May 07, 2021, 10:23:11 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 07, 2021, 11:01:35 AM
There does seem to be an emphasis on “just get the vaccine” rather than ever telling you the vast differences between them.
well, in the USA, there are 3 vaccines available, yes?. And in maskachusetts, of the ~7 million does administered, only about 225,000 were J&J doses. So it comes down to the difference(s) between moderna and pfizer.
What are these "vast differences between them" you speak of?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 07, 2021, 11:16:37 AM
well, in the USA, there are 3 vaccines available, yes?. And in maskachusetts, of the ~7 million does administered, only about 225,000 were J&J doses. So it comes down to the difference(s) between moderna and pfizer.
What are these "vast differences between them" you speak of?
Let’s include all vaccines currently being administered around the world. Do you think they’re all the same, despite coming from different manufacturers? Do they all contain the same carriers, preservatives and other ingredients? Are the reactions being reported to “officialdom” separated out by vaccine type so the average person easily can answer these questions for themselves? Are they all “working” equally well or badly?
No.
Just for fun, does every person on the planet actually know every substance that may send them into anaphylactic shock?
No.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 07, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Let’s include all vaccines currently being administered around the world. Do you think they’re all the same, despite coming from different manufacturers? Do they all contain the same carriers, preservatives and other ingredients? Are the reactions being reported to “officialdom” separated out by vaccine type so the average person easily can answer these questions for themselves? Are they all “working” equally well or badly?
No.
Just for fun, does every person on the planet actually know every substance that may send them into anaphylactic shock?
No.
ok, there are a lot of vaccines available in other countries.
I guess I'm being parochial - just caring about the vaccines in the USA.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 07, 2021, 11:47:47 AM
Post by: bflynn on May 08, 2021, 10:11:02 PM
Data source for claims of "outbreaks" in Israel?
Israel current has a total of 1029 active cases, 85 of them critical. They are pretty much back to pre-COVID life.
Any claims of an outbreak are greatly exaggerated.
Post by: Username on May 09, 2021, 06:31:28 AM
Israel current has a total of 1029 active cases, 85 of them critical. They are pretty much back to pre-COVID life.No! We must stay locked down and masked up until there are zero active cases. Only then can we be safe.
Any claims of an outbreak are greatly exaggerated.
Post by: Lucifer on May 09, 2021, 06:54:35 AM
No! We must stay locked down and masked up until there are zero active cases. Only then can we be safe.
Actually we must stay masked up and locked down for at least a year after there are no more active cases, you know, for safety and to be sure. Oh, and continuous testing.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 09, 2021, 07:14:23 AM
Actually we must stay masked up and locked down for at least a year after there are no more active cases, you know, for safety and to be sure. Oh, and continuous testing.
The phase is: "abundance of caution"
and, my goodness, we can't do continuous testing. That would actually provide data. We must continue only doing some targeted testing.
Post by: Rush on May 09, 2021, 10:23:20 AM
Actually we must stay masked up and locked down for at least a year after there are no more active cases, you know, for safety and to be sure. Oh, and continuous testing.
Since there are always false positives with testing, we will never be able to confirm the virus is gone. So we should stay masked and locked down permanently.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 09, 2021, 10:29:21 AM
.... So we should stay masked and locked down permanently.
In an abundance of caution
Post by: Lucifer on May 09, 2021, 10:39:23 AM
Since there are always false positives with testing, we will never be able to confirm the virus is gone. So we should stay masked and locked down permanently.
Endorsed by Pope Tony and the Branch Covidians.
Post by: Number7 on May 09, 2021, 06:13:47 PM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 25, 2021, 11:47:40 AM
To all our concerns and questions, basically this:
Rare.
Unverified.
Conspiracy.
I haven’t heard about that.
VAERS is voluntary so anyone can put anything there.
The vaccines are safe.
Long-term effects ... meh.
Trust doctors.
Trust government.
Trust her.
We’re not allowed to talk politics, so the massive overarching issue of the corrupt imposter government and the corruption of CDC and WHO must not be mentioned. Origin of the virus must not be mentioned. It’s okay to say “South American variant” or “UK variant” but not “China” or “Wuhan” virus.
How the hell are the reactions and side effects and (as time goes on) other effects even STUDIED or COLLECTED if VAERS is useless?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 25, 2021, 12:01:55 PM
So here we are, still not vaxxed and still assiduously trying to get past the serious problems we see in the program. ...
The response I was giving to some people during the height of the panic... if you don't feel comfortable or safe going to Church or to a match or a meeting, then don't go. We had basic covid protocols in place, but some people weren't comfortable enough with those, soooooo, don't go.
Similarly with the vaccines, if you don't feel comfortable enough, don't get the shot(s).
For the new MD in your family: perhaps she can explain:
https://www.wbtv.com/2021/04/09/vaccine-hesitancy-among-health-care-workers-raises-concerns/
in Maskachusetts, healthcare workers were in the first group eligible for vaccines... but there was considerable hesitancy when the vacinnes first arrived. I don't know if the hesitancy has decreased.
But, even with covid protocols ending (masks masks masks, etc), we are seeing significant drop in cases and hospitalizations and deaths. All good news. Perhaps it's just the spring time drop like last year or vaccines have helped or some combination.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 25, 2021, 12:12:01 PM
She brushes away or “explains” everything. Everything.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 25, 2021, 12:51:17 PM
She specifically stated that the “health care workers” refusing the vaccine were “less informed” and “not as educated” as doctors.
oy - then she is going to need to be educated by some nurses who won't put up with her idiotic attitude.
Since your adored family member is so twisted and confused, you might just have to put her on ignore ... even when she is in the room.
oh wait, is her training in virology or epidemiology or has some real world training/experience in how to actually test anything? If not, then her knowledge is no more applicable than any of the nurses.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 25, 2021, 01:55:48 PM
oy - then she is going to need to be educated by some nurses who won't put up with her idiotic attitude.
Since your adored family member is so twisted and confused, you might just have to put her on ignore ... even when she is in the room.
oh wait, is her training in virology or epidemiology or has some real world training/experience in how to actually test anything? If not, then her knowledge is no more applicable than any of the nurses.
Family Medicine.
Post by: Lucifer on May 25, 2021, 02:44:12 PM
Family Medicine.
She’s in for a rude awakening.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on May 27, 2021, 03:22:19 PM
http://82.221.129.208/euthanized.mp4
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on May 27, 2021, 04:22:31 PM
maybe I'll make up for by not getting the shingles vaccination...
Post by: Jim Logajan on May 27, 2021, 05:59:53 PM
“... providers are running out of people who want to be euthani ... er ... immunized.”
http://82.221.129.208/euthanized.mp4
Heh.
Reminds me of a class I took in junior high school - I think it might have been rhetoric or some social studies class. Anyway, a debate subject was selected and one small team of students took one side and another team was assigned the opposing view. They researched their arguments and then debated in front of the whole class.
The rest of the class was not told the subject to be debated until the teams launched into their arguments. About 5 minutes into the debate most of the class was looking confused until one brave soul piped up and asked “I don’t understand why there is an argument for and against youth in Asia.”
Post by: Rush on May 27, 2021, 06:13:04 PM
“... providers are running out of people who want to be euthani ... er ... immunized.”
http://82.221.129.208/euthanized.mp4
Hahaha!!!
It’s true though, when I signed up online early in the morning the schedule was wide open. I could pick any time that same day. In another post I said how they told me I could only get the Moderna then they called back and said I could get the Pfizer after all? That was because when they open a vial of Pfizer they have to use it within six hours or they need to discard it. It contains six doses. They weren’t going to open a new vial for me because they knew they had no more Pfizer appointments that day and they’d have to trash five doses. But when someone needs the second shot, they have to open a vial regardless.
So what had happened was after I left the first time, refusing the Moderna, a man came in for his second Pfizer shot and they had to open a vial for him, so that’s when they called me and wanted me to come back because now they had an open vial they were gonna have to throw out.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on June 06, 2021, 10:55:16 AM
(stolen from POA)
Post by: bflynn on June 06, 2021, 05:12:33 PM
Ran across another place - Dame's Chicken and Waffles in Cary, NC. It's a local place, but they were insisting that we wear a mask while talking to them at the cash register. I looked at her funny and said we would have to spend our money elsewhere. If the virus was that bad in their place that they need everyone in masks, then I just need to be elsewhere.
Post by: Rush on June 06, 2021, 06:01:21 PM
I saw a t-shirt the other day that said "I showed my virtue when I got vaccinated". I think it was custom, I haven't seen it anywhere else.
Ran across another place - Dame's Chicken and Waffles in Cary, NC. It's a local place, but they were insisting that we wear a mask while talking to them at the cash register. I looked at her funny and said we would have to spend our money elsewhere. If the virus was that bad in their place that they need everyone in masks, then I just need to be elsewhere.
Ha! I’m in Cary right now and there’s a mix of attitude here. Most people I see out and about aren’t wearing them but some are. Even outside, some parents and kids at the playground were wearing masks the whole time. The hotel here requires everyone to be masked in the lobby but they’re not enforcing it. I asked the lady at the desk and she said she didn’t care, I don’t have to as far as she’s concerned. All the Uber drivers wear them and you have to sign an agreement to wear them to get in the car but the most recent Uber driver told me she’s sick of it, she’s vaccinated and doesn’t want to anymore. My grandson said the kids at his daycare age 5 and up still have to wear them all day. So cruel and stupid.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on June 10, 2021, 07:04:37 PM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on June 11, 2021, 08:11:40 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9119431/Miami-doctor-58-dies-three-weeks-receiving-Pfizer-Covid-19-vaccine.html
Post by: bflynn on June 11, 2021, 08:55:28 AM
His body suddenly (!) started attacking his own platelets.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9119431/Miami-doctor-58-dies-three-weeks-receiving-Pfizer-Covid-19-vaccine.html
Sad that he died.
I'd say that you can't rule out the vaccine because that's how science works, but unless someone can advance a theory of how the process goes from "mRNA instructing the RNA to make spike proteins" to "suddenly attacking his own platelets" then it's difficult to assign blame here. There's a gap there that needs to be filled in. The fake spike proteins aren't capable of attacking platelets.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on June 11, 2021, 10:12:00 AM
Sad that he died.
I'd say that you can't rule out the vaccine because that's how science works, but unless someone can advance a theory of how the process goes from "mRNA instructing the RNA to make spike proteins" to "suddenly attacking his own platelets" then it's difficult to assign blame here. There's a gap there that needs to be filled in. The fake spike proteins aren't capable of attacking platelets.
It’s astonishing and scary how little really is known about autoimmunity. It’s one of the most frustrating things to research because of the “we don’t know” factor.
It makes perfect sense to me, however, that a trauma to the immune system by a substance to which an individual is reactive, though they don’t know it, could set off an autoimmune disease.
Post by: Steingar on June 11, 2021, 10:22:23 AM
It’s astonishing and scary how little really is known about autoimmunity. It’s one of the most frustrating things to research because of the “we don’t know” factor.
It makes perfect sense to me, however, that a trauma to the immune system by a substance to which an individual is reactive, though they don’t know it, could set off an autoimmune disease.
Lots of things can set off autoimmunity, but viruses are high on the list. Hard to see how making spike proteins for a march of days could do it. Easy to see how a persistent norovirus or rhinovirus could do it though. A pal hads a consistent cold virus once, lasted for a long time. Came down with Guillain Barre. He was out the whole summer.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on June 11, 2021, 10:28:40 AM
Lots of things can set off autoimmunity, but viruses are high on the list. Hard to see how making spike proteins for a march of days could do it. Easy to see how a persistent norovirus or rhinovirus could do it though. A pal has a consistent cold virus once, lasted for a long time. Came down with Guillain Barre. He was out the whole summer.
Guillain-Barre is listed as a potential side effect on the release form you sign for a flu shot.
Post by: Steingar on June 11, 2021, 10:35:22 AM
Guillain-Barre is listed as a potential side effect on the release form you sign for a flu shot.
I honestly think if you aren't getting vaccinated because you're worried about autoimmune disease than perhaps you need to reassess you priorities just a tad. You're far far more likely to have an autoimmune reaction to a viral infection than a vaccine.
Post by: Lucifer on June 11, 2021, 12:46:50 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on June 11, 2021, 01:14:31 PM
Post by: Lucifer on June 11, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
video removed...
Well that didn’t take long.
It was an excellent report on the VAERS system, and discussed how heart problems were becoming prevalent among teens taking the Covid vaccination. Even discussed various countries that have banned teens from taking it.
And strangely enough, he discussed how media was silencing anyone who talks about the side effects of the Covid vaccine.
Post by: Lucifer on June 11, 2021, 01:20:48 PM
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/tucker-carlson-opening-statement-vaccines-causing-heart-damage-for-young-people/
Post by: Lucifer on June 11, 2021, 02:01:29 PM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on June 11, 2021, 03:15:03 PM
Steingar could say I don’t know much about cellular mechanics, and he’d be right. But I do know that to spread these vaccines all over the world in a giant experiment is Mendelian, idiotic and foolhardy.
Iceland has recorded something like 34 Covid deaths, but already has racked up 24 deaths attributed to the vaccines.
You don’t vaccinate your way out of something like this ... and to inflict a “cure” that quickly is on its way to creating more complexity and befuddled science than the disease is irresponsible.
Multiple shots ad infinitum and boosters ad infinitum are not a cure.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on June 11, 2021, 03:21:28 PM
USA, 306,509,795 vaccine doses administered; 142,095,530 fully vaccinated.
How many vaccine-related deaths?
(yes, I know we can quibble over/fiddle with exactly how many cases, how many covid-related deaths...)
Post by: Lucifer on June 11, 2021, 03:46:52 PM
USA, 34 million covid-19 cases, 614,000 covid-related deaths.
USA, 306,509,795 vaccine doses administered; 142,095,530 fully vaccinated.
How many vaccine-related deaths?
(yes, I know we can quibble over/fiddle with exactly how many cases, how many covid-related deaths...)
How many deaths from an experimental vaccine are acceptable?
Post by: Number7 on June 11, 2021, 04:17:54 PM
Mikey can lie and bloviate all he likes but the bullshit numbers he posts are as stupid as his arguments.
Post by: Jim Logajan on June 11, 2021, 04:31:10 PM
How many deaths from an experimental vaccine are acceptable?
42
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on June 11, 2021, 04:34:39 PM
How many vaccine-related deaths?
We may never know.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on June 11, 2021, 04:35:37 PM
42But only if they’re hitchhikers.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on June 11, 2021, 05:54:09 PM
We may never know.
We'll never know how many people died FROM CV either.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on June 11, 2021, 06:14:20 PM
How many deaths from an experimental vaccine are acceptable?
That goes to the core of the dilemma regarding vaccinations.
but, how many deaths from the "experimental" vaccine have there been?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on June 11, 2021, 07:04:50 PM
That goes to the core of the dilemma regarding vaccinations.
but, how many deaths from the "experimental" vaccine have there been?
We never, ever will fucking know. Ever. The data are being manipulated and obscured.
Post by: Jim Logajan on June 11, 2021, 09:50:57 PM
Likewise with respect to knowing people who got the disease.
One could use that sort of info as a personally verified statistical sample as guidance.
Post by: Little Joe on June 12, 2021, 05:00:31 AM
A number of posters here have said they’ve been vaccinated. They also know of family, friends, and co-workers who have been vaccinated.With very few exceptions, almost everyone I know has gotten the vaccine. I don't know anyone that had any serious side effects (yet).
Likewise with respect to knowing people who got the disease.
One could use that sort of info as a personally verified statistical sample as guidance.
I personally know only one person that diagnosed positive for the virus. She was a 28 yr old veterinarian that caught it from her SO. They both felt like they had a bad cold for about 3 days and then took about 2 weeks off work till they tested negative.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on June 12, 2021, 05:25:32 AM
Unfortunately my youngest DIL has been diagnosed with cancer, She has a large mass on her liver (80%) and is hoping to see the Oncologist Monday for a plan. She had been having GI problems for months and an ultrasound caught the mass. She is forty-six. Both of her parents died from cancer.
Post by: Rush on June 12, 2021, 05:29:36 AM
A number of posters here have said they’ve been vaccinated. They also know of family, friends, and co-workers who have been vaccinated.
Likewise with respect to knowing people who got the disease.
One could use that sort of info as a personally verified statistical sample as guidance.
I know of two people in our neighborhood that died of covid, assuming they died of it and not with it, out of maybe a dozen I know of that got it. And lots of people that got vaccinated with zero deaths or serious side effects.
Unfortunately human nature being what it is, this sort of anecdotal non-scientific assessment plays strongly on our emotions and tends to bias us, so that even as I am intellectually aware of how unreliable it is, I am affected by it.
If only one person close to you dies of covid (or of the vaccine) you tend to believe it is “one hundred percent fatal”.
Post by: Rush on June 12, 2021, 05:31:33 AM
Both of my sons and their families and my wife have been vaccinated. My youngest son and his family (four total) had it back at Christmas time and dealt with it very well. No side affects from either the virus or the vaccine that I know of, yet.
Unfortunately my youngest DIL has been diagnosed with cancer, She has a large mass on her liver (80%) and is hoping to see the Oncologist Monday for a plan. She had been having GI problems for months and an ultrasound caught the mass. She is forty-six. Both of her parents died from cancer.
Wow, ouch! So sorry to hear that!
Post by: nddons on June 12, 2021, 06:06:17 AM
Both of my sons and their families and my wife have been vaccinated. My youngest son and his family (four total) had it back at Christmas time and dealt with it very well. No side affects from either the virus or the vaccine that I know of, yet.Sorry Eppy. Cancer sucks.
Unfortunately my youngest DIL has been diagnosed with cancer, She has a large mass on her liver (80%) and is hoping to see the Oncologist Monday for a plan. She had been having GI problems for months and an ultrasound caught the mass. She is forty-six. Both of her parents died from cancer.
Post by: deeg on June 12, 2021, 12:04:21 PM
A number of posters here have said they’ve been vaccinated. They also know of family, friends, and co-workers who have been vaccinated.
Likewise with respect to knowing people who got the disease.
One could use that sort of info as a personally verified statistical sample as guidance.
Got Covid in November. Unknown where I it from. Grocery store? Target? Costco? who knows. Interesting thing, though. I worked two 12 hour shifts before I got tested. None of us wore masks, and social distancing is impossible at my workplace. No one there caught from me. But my spouse did. Three family members had covid and died. But all three were in their 80s and not doing well to begin with. I got my Moderna shots in Jan/Feb. Spouse is holding off. Since December, two other co workers have gotten Covid. Both did not have the vacc. Several of my co workers have gotten it. I'd guess at 65-75% of my friends/family have gotten vacc'd. The rest are either waiting until traveling requires it or they are in the rabid anti-vacc group.
I honestly don't care one way or the other if you chose to get it or not.
And while my covid experience wasn't all that bad... exhaustion and confusion mostly. Bit of a cough. That's about it. But I am still exhausted. all the time. I don't sleep well any more, either. Taste and smell are off, too. Meat, coffee, cooked veggies and shit all smell the same now. Eggs, milk, fruit, chocolate, meat and wine all taste 'off'.
Don't know what effects the vaccine has had on me. Or will have. I joke that the chip that was imbedded in the vacc isn't working, my 5G is non existent and I'm still waiting for that third arm to grow.
Post by: bflynn on June 12, 2021, 01:02:15 PM
Got Covid in November. ... I got my Moderna shots in Jan/Feb.
???
Why did you take a shot away from someone else?
Post by: Rush on June 12, 2021, 01:20:46 PM
???
Why did you take a shot away from someone else?
Isn’t the CDC saying you need to be vaccinated even if you’ve had covid? You could theoretically get it again and kill grandma.
Post by: deeg on June 12, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
???
Why did you take a shot away from someone else?
Who did I take it away from? My co worker who didn't want it.
Every first responder that wanted it, got it. And there has been a drive through vacc site in town for the last two months. Anyone that cares to get the vacc is free to get one. Plenty of them to go around.
Post by: Steingar on June 12, 2021, 06:55:41 PM
Unfortunately my youngest DIL has been diagnosed with cancer, She has a large mass on her liver (80%) and is hoping to see the Oncologist Monday for a plan. She had been having GI problems for months and an ultrasound caught the mass. She is forty-six. Both of her parents died from cancer.Sounds like there are some tumor suppressor mutations present in the families. Tumor suppressors are proteins that inhibit the cell cycle. Their job is to keep damaged cells from replicating. There are some famous ones, like the P53 protein, and you’ve probably heard of the BRCA proteins. In truth there are many tumor suppressors.
It is of course also possible that there is an increased level of some carcinogen in their environment, but you think someone would have noticed. Sorry you have to deal with this Eppy. I hope your DIL has a favorable prognosis.
Post by: Rush on June 13, 2021, 03:14:46 AM
Who did I take it away from? My co worker who didn't want it.
Every first responder that wanted it, got it. And there has been a drive through vacc site in town for the last two months. Anyone that cares to get the vacc is free to get one. Plenty of them to go around.
Where I am now there’s a big oversupply. Nobody’s coming in to be vaccinated, they’ve got all these doses sitting around. Of course that wasn’t the case back in Jan/Feb. I guess everyone that wanted it scrambled to get it when they first got here.
Post by: Number7 on June 13, 2021, 06:40:54 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on July 27, 2021, 09:05:16 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 12, 2021, 01:52:17 PM
“COVID-19 could be eradicated if we had mass vaccinations across the country and across the world,” O’Farrell said before noting the United States’ history eradicating smallpox and mostly eradicating polio through vaccinations.”
Except this is not polio or smallpox. This is a flu. It never, ever will be eradicated by vaccines because it always, always will mutate. Vaccines are making our situation infinitely worse.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 12, 2021, 05:10:04 PM
The unvaccinated create personal immunity when the virus is fought by their bodies’ immune systems.
Acquiring personal (no vaccine) immunity doesn’t create any virus mutations for the vaccinated or the vaccinated to fight off. Personal (no vaccine) immunity is the only thing that will stop mutations as the virus runs its course.
This push for mass vaccination is insane, or insanely devilish by who/what is behind it. It is making the situation far, far worse.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/immunology-professor-byram-bridle-there-is-no-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-8-5-21/
Post by: Rush on August 12, 2021, 05:29:34 PM
Post by: bflynn on August 12, 2021, 06:01:47 PM
The vaccinated create new variants when the virus mutates to get around around the single protein in the mRNA vaccine.
Ummm...that isn't how it works. Vaccines have no intelligence, they don't plan to do things. They don't force themselves to mutate so they can infect new people.
Vaccines mutate when they replicate and it's an accident when they do. The way to prevent new variants is to eliminate replication. That can be isolation, full medical grade masking or vaccines. Choose any or none of these, but don't blame the people who are already minimizing replication through vaccines. We aren't the problem and we aren't the ones creating new variants.
Post by: Number7 on August 12, 2021, 06:36:07 PM
The fucking communist chinese, facilitated by obama fauci gates and others are.
The saddest thing is people like bflynn preaching his version of nothing happened, imbedding the leftist lies deeper and deeper into the national discourse.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 12, 2021, 06:44:13 PM
Ummm...that isn't how it works. Vaccines have no intelligence, they don't plan to do things. They don't force themselves to mutate so they can infect new people.
Vaccines mutate when they replicate and it's an accident when they do. The way to prevent new variants is to eliminate replication. That can be isolation, full medical grade masking or vaccines. Choose any or none of these, but don't blame the people who are already minimizing replication through vaccines. We aren't the problem and we aren't the ones creating new variants.
These “vaccines” are not sterilizing and do not prevent infection or replication. Try again.
Post by: Rush on August 12, 2021, 06:44:41 PM
Ummm...that isn't how it works.Vaccinesviruses have no intelligence, they don't plan to do things. They don't force themselves to mutate so they can infect new people.Vaccinesviruses mutate when they replicate and it's an accident when they do. The way to prevent new variants is to eliminate replication. That can be isolation, full medical grade masking or vaccines. Choose any or none of these, but don't blame the people who are already minimizing replication through vaccines. We aren't the problem and we aren't the ones creating new variants.
Is this what you meant?
We can’t get rid of Covid19 any more than we can get rid of the common cold, also a coronavirus. It’s here to stay, with endless rapid mutations. Vaccines only encourage the spread because people are less symptomatic when they get the virus after having been vaccinated. It will gradually become less deadly and will be with us forever like colds and flu. There is no eradicating it, it doesn’t behave like smallpox.
Post by: Number7 on August 12, 2021, 06:46:53 PM
You can’t reason with bflynn any more than you can reason with steingar and for the same reason.
They both just know they are the smartest person in the room, even though no one else agrees.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 12, 2021, 06:49:44 PM
Is this what you meant?
We can’t get rid of Covid19 any more than we can get rid of the common cold, also a coronavirus. It’s here to stay, with endless rapid mutations. Vaccines only encourage the spread because people are less symptomatic when they get the virus after having been vaccinated. It will gradually become less deadly and will be with us forever like colds and flu. There is no eradicating it, it doesn’t behave like smallpox.
Exactly, and the idiots on Los Angeles are mandating it now to get into certain public places. They’re even comparing it to polio and smallpox. It’s insanity. This virus will only become less deadly and move into the cold/flu category when the “vaccinations” STOP.
Post by: Rush on August 12, 2021, 06:52:18 PM
Exactly, and the idiots on Los Angeles are mandating it now to get into certain public places. They’re even comparing it to polio and smallpox. It’s insanity. This virus will only become less deadly and move into the cold/flu category when the “vaccinations” STOP.
It is truly madness, I feel like I’ve slipped into an alternate dimension. I can hardly believe what is happening.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 12, 2021, 07:14:13 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Tree_diagram_of_Pango_lineages_of_SARS-CoV-2.svg/800px-Tree_diagram_of_Pango_lineages_of_SARS-CoV-2.svg.png
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 12, 2021, 08:18:22 PM
These “vaccines” are not sterilizing and do not prevent infection or replication. Try again.
Lately I’ve avoided posting on the vaccine subject since, IMHO, the reasonable backlash to authoritarianism has made discussion of the science of vaccines veer off into the weeds. The “authorities” in government and business have made people justifiably angry and helpless.
That said, I’m going to take a stab at presenting what I’ve found on infection and replication in vaccinated people:
(1) The results of the early tests of the mRNA vaccines on monkeys strongly suggested they were sterilizing. I posted links on those studies months ago - let me know if anyone wants me to repost those links.
(2) Most mRNA vaccinated people who are exposed to the virus do appear to reduce further infection and replication. Virus sterilization isn’t an all-or-nothing measure - more of a sliding scale: how much appears to depends on the concentration of antibodies per volume of fluid. I’m going to be lazy and use a post I made to the purpleboard in June that contains supporting sources:
Consider that the “beachhead” for a viral infection is in the same fluids that are also most commonly sampled for infection: mucus or saliva. Only rarely is blood tested. Also consider that antibody proteins are in these fluids[1]. So the antibodies in the fluids will then bind to the spike protein on the virus, making most or all of them inert before they can infect any cells. On the other hand, because of the exposure and the relatively long half life of those inert viruses in mucus or saliva, a test for the virus in those fluids will come back positive. In this case a positive test only proves exposure - not cellular infection. And the person is likely not even a threat to others since the saliva antibodies will have made many or all the viruses inert.
A similar beachhead “persistent” antibody defense appears operative for lungs[2].
Lastly, it appears that in order to keep the salivary immune system from attacking harmless antigens in food, the response in some cases is regulated to avoid inflammatory reaction[3]. So some diseases can be passed on by people who are otherwise immune.
[1] Persistence of serum and saliva antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 spike antigens in COVID-19 patients
https://immunology.sciencemag.org/content/5/52/eabe5511 (https://immunology.sciencemag.org/content/5/52/eabe5511)
[2] Antibody-Secreting Cells in the Lung Can Prevent Respiratory Infections From Becoming Severe
https://scitechdaily.com/antibody-secreting-cells-in-the-lung-can-prevent-respiratory-infections-from-becoming-severe/ (https://scitechdaily.com/antibody-secreting-cells-in-the-lung-can-prevent-respiratory-infections-from-becoming-severe/)
[3] Immunity in the salivary gland
https://www.immunology.org/public-information/bitesized-immunology/organs-and-tissues/immunity-in-the-salivary-gland (https://www.immunology.org/public-information/bitesized-immunology/organs-and-tissues/immunity-in-the-salivary-gland)
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 12, 2021, 08:47:40 PM
Becky,
You can’t reason with bflynn any more than you can reason with steingar and for the same reason.
They both just know they are the smartest person in the room, even though no one else agrees.
I had the pleasure of meeting bflynn at this year’s Oshkosh. I happen to agree with him that vaccinated people are not to blame for any further viral mutations.
Post by: Number7 on August 13, 2021, 01:38:22 AM
I had the pleasure of meeting bflynn at this year’s Oshkosh. I happen to agree with him that vaccinated people are not to blame for any further viral mutations.
I guess that means the science is settled.....
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 13, 2021, 04:22:22 AM
Is this what you meant?
We can’t get rid of Covid19 any more than we can get rid of the common cold, also a coronavirus. It’s here to stay, with endless rapid mutations. Vaccines only encourage the spread because people are less symptomatic when they get the virus after having been vaccinated. It will gradually become less deadly and will be with us forever like colds and flu. There is no eradicating it, it doesn’t behave like smallpox.
Since mutations only occur when the virus replicates, the more virus strands that exist, the more chance for mutations. Does anyone disagree?
When someone is symptomatic, do they have more virus strands in their system than someone who is not symptomatic?
Important to this discussion is the distinction between replication-capable strands and those that are not replication-capable. Yes or no? Some of the vaccines work by inhibiting the virus' replication mechanism. No replication, no mutation.
But, yeah, the vaccines are causing mutations.
Post by: Rush on August 13, 2021, 04:43:56 AM
Since mutations only occur when the virus replicates, the more virus strands that exist, the more chance for mutations. Does anyone disagree?
When someone is symptomatic, do they have more virus strands in their system than someone who is not symptomatic?
Important to this discussion is the distinction between replication-capable strands and those that are not replication-capable. Yes or no? Some of the vaccines work by inhibiting the virus' replication mechanism. No replication, no mutation.
But, yeah, the vaccines are causing mutations.
Mutations happen anyway, vaccine or no. They are random. They can confer different characteristics to the “life form” (if you can call viral DNA life.)
The difference between mutations in a vaccinated person vs an unvaccinated person is that in a vaccinated person, the virus is more easily defeated, so the only mutations that survive are those able to circumvent the vaccine. Therefore the virus evolves to be more difficult to defeat with a vaccine.
Some viruses survive in a vaccinated person, we know this because some vaccinated persons get sick. There may be fewer of them and fewer numbers of mutations but the mutations that do survive are those that strengthen the virus against the vaccine, hence why the vaccine is already becoming less effective against emergent variants.
My understanding about the replication incapable feature of some vaccines refers to the viral vector, not the mechanism by which it protects you. It renders the chimpanzee adenovirus vector incapable of replicating, not the covid virus. It defeats covid like the other vaccines, by notifying your immune system that the spike protein is foreign and to be attacked.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 13, 2021, 05:08:26 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 13, 2021, 05:09:13 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 13, 2021, 05:31:39 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 13, 2021, 05:37:29 AM
The vaccines we've taken in the past are made from what are called attenuated viruses. These are viruses that have been grown in egg yolks (usually) over a period of time. Once harvested, they are "killed" or "weakened" so they can't be infective and are put into vaccines. It takes a long time to grow these viruses in amounts large enough to vaccinate large swaths of the population, which is why everyone thought it was vastly too optimistic to hope for a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine within under a year as Trump promised. There just wasn't enough time to grow the mass of viruses needed to make a vaccine the standard way they've always been made.
But the mRNA vaccines are different. In this method, viruses don't have to be grown. They have to have their genome determined so a template can be made. And it the case of SARS-CoV-2, a template of only the spike protein. Those making the vaccine determined that the spike protein was a harmless component of the virus. (Which it appears perhaps didn't turn out to be the case, but that's a different subject.) An injection of the mRNA of the spike protein would cause the host's cellular machinery to create the spike protein and release it. The immune cells would recognize it as foreign and attack it. And through T-cell memory would remember it, so when the vaccinated person was exposed to the complete intact infectious virus, these memory cells would remember that spike and generate the antibodies to wipe out any cell wearing it.
One of the issues Dr. Robert Malone and others, especially Geert Vanden Bossche (another expert on the subject), have been worried about is the inability of mRNA vaccines to establish herd immunity.
Viruses are tiny agents of infection. But the entire virus is huge compared to just the spike protein component. An entire virus has multiple sites, called epitopes, to which immune cells attach in an effort to destroy the virus. When an attenuated virus is used as a vaccine, the entire panoply of epitopes is presented to the immune cells, which become sensitized to them and remember them. When a vaccinated person then encounters a live, infectious virus, the immune cells attack it six ways from Sunday attaching to every epitope present.
If, over time, the virus mutates a bit, the vaccinated person is still protected because the virus won't mutate into a completely different virus. If one epitope mutates in a way that evades the immune system, there will still be many other epitopes that will not have mutated. The vaccinated individual will still mount an immune response to the many other epitopes on the mutated virus and kill it.
Imagine if a vaccine were made that somehow generated an immune response to one epitope only. What do you think would happen if the component of the virus containing that one epitope mutated? Obviously the vaccine-provided protection would wane. This is precisely the situation we're in with the mRNA spike protein vaccine.
Since the spike protein epitope is the only one the current vaccines generate immunity against, it provides a fertile field for mutation of that epitope. The variants with a mutated epitope are selected for. Since the immune systems of these vaccinated individuals won't be able to attack the mutated epitope, they will begin to lose their immunity. Which is exactly what we've seen in Israel, probably the most vaccinated country in the world. I posted this chart of confirmed cases in Israel a couple of weeks ago, but it's worth posting again.
Confirmed Covid cases in Israel
As you can see, the protection from the vaccine is waning.
Vaccine experts such as Vanden Bossche and Malone worry that the widespread vaccination that has taken place will both decrease the efficacy of the vaccines (which has already happening) and select for more infectious and virulent forms. And worst of all, not help to develop herd immunity.
Here's what Vanen Bossche wrote about herd immunity:
It is, indeed, quite unbelievable that some advising experts pretend that although we won’t achieve herd immunity, we will still be able to exchange the pandemic for an endemic situation. When does that happen? The answer is: never. Neither disappointing vaccine coverage rates nor diminished virus neutralization rates should be blamed for failure of these vaccines to enable herd immunity. From their very first conceptualization, it should have been very clear that these ‘S-based’ Covid-19 vaccines are completely inadequate for generating herd immunity in a population, regardless of the magnitude of Ab titers induced or the rate of vaccine coverage. Why is this? Let’s first have a closer look at the definition of ‘herd immunity’. Herd immunity occurs when most of a population is immune to an infectious disease and thereby provides indirect protection to those who are not immune to the disease. Mechanistically, indirect protection is due to absence or strong reduction of infectious transmission by those who have been immunized (i.e., the majority of the population). So who concluded all of a sudden that herd immunity would only depend on antigen (Ag)-specific (in this case, ‘spike-specific’) humoral (Ab) responses and nonantigen-specific innate immunity (i.e., operated through several different immune stimulatory and modulatory cytokines and chemokines secreted by immunocompetent cells, including noncytotoxic Ag-specific T cells)? If this were the case, a natural pandemic could never irreversibly evolve into an endemic infectious situation. Here is why S-specific Abs and nonAg-specific innate immunity could never force the Sars-CoV-2 pandemic into endemicity, let alone eradicate Sars-CoV-2.
I encourage you to read the article from which I took this excerpt and read this article as well. It gives the reason the mass vaccination experiment drives the rapid evolutionary response of SARS-CoV-2. It's not easy reading, but well worth the time if you're interested.
And while you're at it, give this one a read as well. He predicts we've got a long way to go before the pandemic is over. Right from the outset, Vanden Bossche has said the mRNA vaccines should be used only for those at serious risk, not the whole of the population. And certainly not children, who barely notice when they get Covid--at least from the original virus. The more natural immunity built up from exposure, the faster to herd immunity. We're now experiencing the fruits of the mad dash to immunized everyone.
But the mad dash will continue because there is so much money involved. If the vaccine is approved for every child age 0-12, then that opens up ~65 million people who could get it. And the price of the vaccine just went up, so multiply $25 times 65M times 2 doses per person to see what that new market would be. Mind boggling.
If Vanden Bossche is correct, we will have to be continuously vaccinating people from here till Kingdom Come because new variants will be driven by the leaky mRNA vaccines. Which will be the only vaccines capable of being made on short notice, so the mutations will rapidly take place. Who knows when one will pop out that is extremely deadly. To all groups, not just those who are elderly and have multiple co-morbidities.
There is a new vaccine coming to market. It is made by Novavax and is based on more traditional processes that have been proven by the test of time. You can read about it here and here.
The Novavax vaccine will inject the actual spike proteins instead of simply a template for the cells to produce a portion of the spike protein. I, like everyone else, write "spike protein" when writing about the current mRNA vaccines when what we all mean is a fraction of the spike protein. Above I wrote about the spike protein epitope as if it were a single thing. There are doubtless many epitopes on the real spike protein, not just one. Vaccinating with the total spike protein doubtless doesn't provide the same degree of immunity as a total attenuated viral vaccine (the quickest one of these has been produced was the mumps vaccine which took four years), but provides much more than the current vaccines and without the long wait.
The Novavax is the one I'm waiting for. It keeps looking like it's just around the corner. I don't know if money interests are behind the delay or if there is no pressing need for an EUA since the others are out or if the FDA is dragging its heels for whatever reason. I seem to remember reading somewhere (and now can't remember where) that the Novavax team was skipping the EUA process and going straight for full FDA approval process. I hope it's true. And, whatever the cause, I wish they would approve it.
Dr. Michael Eades
(http://)
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 13, 2021, 05:40:25 AM
https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/why-the-ongoing-mass-vaccination-experiment-drives-a-rapid-evolutionary-response-of-sars-cov-2
https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/51
https://www.sott.net/article/456538-Media-blackout-Renowned-German-pathologists-vaccine-autopsy-data-is-shocking-and-being-censored
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/07/pathologist-dr-ryan-cole-delivers-concerning-message-about-covid-vaccine-and-long-term-impacts/
https://amgreatness.com/2021/08/06/pandemic-policymakers-dancing-the-delta-two-step/
Post by: Rush on August 13, 2021, 05:48:30 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 13, 2021, 07:47:53 AM
Mutations happen anyway, vaccine or no. They are random. They can confer different characteristics to the “life form” (if you can call viral DNA life.)
you seem to be ignoring the number of virus strand - the more replication capable virus strands that exist, the more mutations that will happen because a mutation is just a probability. The *rate* of mutation doesn't change.
Post by: bflynn on August 13, 2021, 08:12:40 AM
One of the issues Dr. Robert Malone and others, especially Geert Vanden Bossche (another expert on the subject), have been worried about is the inability of mRNA vaccines to establish herd immunity.
I know this isn't your quote, but I do have to question this. By all accounts, herd immunity has largely been achieved in the elderly population. They aren't getting sick as much or at least not getting hospitalized like they were before. Unless one wants to say the delta variant isn't targeting the weak, I think we have to conclude that the vaccines are working.
Covid cannot replicate outside of a host, it must invade living cells. To make the statement that a particular vaccine cannot achieve herd immunity would be saying that the vaccine doesn't kill the virus. But we're seeing the exact opposite evidence in the fact that the current hospitalizations from the more transmissible delta variant doesn't include the elderly. I think if we didn't have the vaccines out there already, we'd be seeing extremely high fatality rates from the elderly population right now.
I get that experts have been worried about this topic, but evidence seems to be showing that their worries are misplaced. This is becoming a pandemic solely for the unvaccinated.
Post by: bflynn on August 13, 2021, 08:17:00 AM
you seem to be ignoring the number of virus strand - the more replication capable virus strands that exist, the more mutations that will happen because a mutation is just a probability. The *rate* of mutation doesn't change.
But mutation is still dependent on the rate. If a particular virus is more likely to mutate, it will mutate more quickly the more chances it has.
Simple math, chance of mutation * number of opportunities. In reality the chance is very, very small the and the opportunity is very, very large.
.001 * 1000 = 1
.01 * 1000 = 10
But reduce the number of opportunities to mutate and the number of resulting mutations goes down.
.001 * 10 = .01
.01 * 10 = .1
Since we cannot control the chances of mutation during replication, we have to reduce the chances.
Post by: Rush on August 13, 2021, 08:21:39 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 13, 2021, 09:03:46 AM
This is becoming a pandemic solely for the unvaccinated.
Yes, this is one of the top liberal talking points right now.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/07/26/california-implements-first-in-the-nation-measures-to-encourage-state-employees-and-health-care-workers-to-get-vaccinated/
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/statistics-show-risks-vaccinated-covid-19/story?id=78845627
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/rarely-covid-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-can-be-severe-who-s-n1274164
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/22/health/covid-19-vaccine-approval-when/index.html
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/03/1024345276/the-biden-administration-plans-a-new-eviction-moratorium-after-a-federal-ban-lap
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on August 13, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
Mutations happen anyway, vaccine or no. They are random. They can confer different characteristics to the “life form” (if you can call viral DNA life.)
The difference between mutations in a vaccinated person vs an unvaccinated person is that in a vaccinated person, the virus is more easily defeated, so the only mutations that survive are those able to circumvent the vaccine. Therefore the virus evolves to be more difficult to defeat with a vaccine.
Some viruses survive in a vaccinated person, we know this because some vaccinated persons get sick. There may be fewer of them and fewer numbers of mutations but the mutations that do survive are those that strengthen the virus against the vaccine, hence why the vaccine is already becoming less effective against emergent variants.
My understanding about the replication incapable feature of some vaccines refers to the viral vector, not the mechanism by which it protects you. It renders the chimpanzee adenovirus vector incapable of replicating, not the covid virus. It defeats covid like the other vaccines, by notifying your immune system that the spike protein is foreign and to be attacked.
With this so-called "vaccinate everyone" scheme, we are creating superbugs like the overuse of antibiotics and hand sanitizer caused.
Post by: bflynn on August 13, 2021, 04:11:46 PM
Any mutation that would get away from vaccines would get away from a non vaccinated person too. The virus is much more likely to mutate in a non vaccinated person. Someone who is vaccinated, either because the antibodies were produced as a response to a real virus, an attenuated one, or by mRNA message has the same antibodies produced. If viruses mutated and evaded antibodies to become more deadly, the human race would have died out long, long ago.
Antibodies kill the virus in vaccinated people. Period. While it’s true that everyone can carry the virus around, people who are vaccinated by any means don’t produce mutations, the virus gets killed.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 13, 2021, 04:28:44 PM
Ridiculous.
Any mutation that would get away from vaccines would get away from a non vaccinated person too. The virus is much more likely to mutate in a non vaccinated person. Someone who is vaccinated, either because the antibodies were produced as a response to a real virus, an attenuated one, or by mRNA message has the same antibodies produced. If viruses mutated and evaded antibodies to become more deadly, the human race would have died out long, long ago.
Antibodies kill the virus in vaccinated people. Period. While it’s true that everyone can carry the virus around, people who are vaccinated by any means don’t produce mutations, the virus gets killed.
Wow. So video interviews with and papers written by at least four doctors, posted earlier in this thread, are all bogus and incorrect. And Dr. Robert Malone, who invented the mRNA “vaccine,” doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Got it.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 15, 2021, 02:56:52 PM
They’re dead to me now.
Post by: Lucifer on August 15, 2021, 03:20:16 PM
Post by: Number7 on August 15, 2021, 03:36:49 PM
Wow. So video interviews with and papers written by at least four doctors, posted earlier in this thread, are all bogus and incorrect. And Dr. Robert Malone, who invented the mRNA “vaccine,” doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Got it.
You know.
We've all been marked as violent Democratic terrorists by the DHS because we refuse to believe the bullshit flynn and others keep shoveling.
Post by: Username on August 20, 2021, 09:55:43 AM
Felt like crap for a couple of days, brain fog for a couple more. So far my 5G service still sucks, I haven't grown anything new, and nothing has fallen off. We'll see.
Post by: Rush on August 20, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 20, 2021, 12:47:30 PM
I’m going for my 2nd tomorrow morning. It’s been 12 weeks so according to one study I will have better immunity than if I’d gotten it at the whatever, 2 or 3 week point.
Be sure to wear two mask! And social distance!
Post by: nddons on August 20, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
I’m going for my 2nd tomorrow morning. It’s been 12 weeks so according to one study I will have better immunity than if I’d gotten it at the whatever, 2 or 3 week point.I had stomach discomfort 5 days after my 2nd. Probably nothing related to the second shot. Never got a fever or anything.
I don’t think I will get a booster. When does it end?
Post by: Lucifer on August 20, 2021, 01:06:52 PM
I had stomach discomfort 5 days after my 2nd. Probably nothing related to the second shot. Never got a fever or anything.
I don’t think I will get a booster. When does it end?
Big Pharma says never end. Each round is equal to $5 Billion profit, so each 6 months, so $10 Billion/year.
It ain't gonna end.
Post by: Rush on August 20, 2021, 01:20:46 PM
I had stomach discomfort 5 days after my 2nd. Probably nothing related to the second shot. Never got a fever or anything.
I don’t think I will get a booster. When does it end?
Yeah I’m real sure I’m not going to either. I only just barely convinced myself to get number 2.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 20, 2021, 01:59:14 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 20, 2021, 01:59:57 PM
Post by: nddons on August 20, 2021, 02:21:28 PM
Yeah I’m real sure I’m not going to either. I only just barely convinced myself to get number 2.I saw your struggle. That’s how I felt before my first one. I’m done with it now.
Post by: Rush on August 20, 2021, 04:41:03 PM
I saw your struggle. That’s how I felt before my first one. I’m done with it now.
I concluded I'm high risk, I'm over 60 and have pre-diabetes and autoimmune disease. That makes the risk of the actual covid to me higher than the risk of the vaccine, probably by a significant amount.
And also I still fear we could end up with vaccine mandates to travel and I can't risk not being able to fly commercial on a day's notice. My mother is 94 and I'm her power of attorney and healthcare power of attorney and executor of her estate. I'm the only person who can get into her lockbox and who has direct access to all her accounts. I may need to be there in person to deal with stuff if something happens with her. She lives halfway across the country. Back when she set all that up, I was the one living there and my sister was halfway across the country, now we are reversed, but it's too late to get her to change it, she is too demented, so I'm stuck with it. I have to be ready to go there at a moment's notice.
So for those two big reasons my choice is to get it. But it should still be my choice. Trying to force it on me only made me balk.
This doesn't mean I approve of the country's aggressive push for everyone to get vaccinated or the vitriol against those who choose not to, and the outright discrimination now against the unvaccinated. If I were a young male I probably would not get it. It should be every individual's choice just like the flu shot.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 20, 2021, 07:07:32 PM
I concluded I'm high risk, I'm over 60 and have pre-diabetes and autoimmune disease. That makes the risk of the actual covid to me higher than the risk of the vaccine, probably by a significant amount.You know you don't need to justify anything to us, at least not to me.
And also I still fear we could end up with vaccine mandates to travel and I can't risk not being able to fly commercial on a day's notice. My mother is 94 and I'm her power of attorney and healthcare power of attorney and executor of her estate. I'm the only person who can get into her lockbox and who has direct access to all her accounts. I may need to be there in person to deal with stuff if something happens with her. She lives halfway across the country. Back when she set all that up, I was the one living there and my sister was halfway across the country, now we are reversed, but it's too late to get her to change it, she is too demented, so I'm stuck with it. I have to be ready to go there at a moment's notice.
So for those two big reasons my choice is to get it. But it should still be my choice. Trying to force it on me only made me balk.
This doesn't mean I approve of the country's aggressive push for everyone to get vaccinated or the vitriol against those who choose not to, and the outright discrimination now against the unvaccinated. If I were a young male I probably would not get it. It should be every individual's choice just like the flu shot.
Post by: Rush on August 20, 2021, 07:17:32 PM
You know you don't need to justify anything to us, at least not to me.
I know. I’m just killing time. ;D
Post by: Lucifer on August 21, 2021, 06:06:10 AM
Post by: Number7 on August 21, 2021, 06:29:49 AM
The democrat communists are so deeply corrupt that everything happening in the world seems to show deeper and uglier communist democrat corruption.
https://canadafreepress.com/article/dr-roger-hodkinson-its-all-been-a-pack-of-lies
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 21, 2021, 06:52:12 AM
The U.S. rise probably shows how media-driven sheeple Americans act when the pressure started and their favorite fast food is threatened. But on the whole, it looks like the not-really-vaccines have topped out.
People are starting to know people who had Covid and recovered, used Ivermectin or some other treatment and recovered, or who had a serious adverse reaction to the jab. Hard to suppress that forever.
Post by: bflynn on August 22, 2021, 03:25:05 AM
https://www.freetheanimal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-21-at-9.15.24-AM.jpg
The U.S. rise probably shows how media-driven sheeple Americans act when the pressure started and their favorite fast food is threatened. But on the whole, it looks like the not-really-vaccines have topped out.
People are starting to know people who had Covid and recovered, used Ivermectin or some other treatment and recovered, or who had a serious adverse reaction to the jab. Hard to suppress that forever.
You have heard that the use of Ivermectin is dangerous, right? The cases of poisoning in Mississippi got so bad that the state issued a direct warning against trying it. The concentration of what you can buy is too strong for humans. The advice to use Ivermectin is literally poisoning people.
I agree that many people have decided against the vaccines and that is sad because they work. Ask any HC professional who is dying from COVID right now and the answer is unvaccinated people. Sure, there are some breakthrough cases, but that’s true of any vaccine. Still, you are much, much less likely to get COVID and if you do, it will be a mild case that you can recover from at home. That is a win all around and it’s sad that so many focus on the anecdotal evidence of adverse reactions.
Most people have heard of side effects like myocarditis, but they probably don’t know that there are only 792 confirmed cases out of 183,000,000 vaccinated people. In the 12-15 range, it was 144 cases out of 6,000,000 vaccinations. If you believe the vaccines are not safe, you have been lied to, played by a media that thrives on drama.
Overall, the death rate for an unvaccinated person who gets sick is about 1.4%, but nearly 20% will have a serious case. If we don’t control it, everyone will get sick…and we are nowhere close to controlling it.
My bell weather state right now is still Florida. Despite a very high vaccination level, the delta variant is still running wild there, again mostly among the unvaccinated. Since the most recent surge over the last two months, nearly a million more people in Florida have gotten sick. About 14,000 have died and 200,000 have had serious cases. If there is good news, it appears the delta variant might have peaked, but you can bet there is another one coming next. Keep in mind that is mostly unvaccinated people, so it’s a million out of the roughly 8,000,000 people who aren’t vaccinated yet, around a 12% infection rate.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 22, 2021, 04:35:32 AM
You have heard that the use of Ivermectin is dangerous, right? The cases of poisoning in Mississippi got so bad that the state issued a direct warning against trying it. The concentration of what you can buy is too strong for humans. The advice to use Ivermectin is literally poisoning people.https://www.drugs.com/ivermectin.html
I agree that many people have decided against the vaccines and that is sad because they work. Ask any HC professional who is dying from COVID right now and the answer is unvaccinated people. Sure, there are some breakthrough cases, but that’s true of any vaccine. Still, you are much, much less likely to get COVID and if you do, it will be a mild case that you can recover from at home. That is a win all around and it’s sad that so many focus on the anecdotal evidence of adverse reactions.
Most people have heard of side effects like myocarditis, but they probably don’t know that there are only 792 confirmed cases out of 183,000,000 vaccinated people. In the 12-15 range, it was 144 cases out of 6,000,000 vaccinations. If you believe the vaccines are not safe, you have been lied to, played by a media that thrives on drama.
Overall, the death rate for an unvaccinated person who gets sick is about 1.4%, but nearly 20% will have a serious case. If we don’t control it, everyone will get sick…and we are nowhere close to controlling it.
My bell weather state right now is still Florida. Despite a very high vaccination level, the delta variant is still running wild there, again mostly among the unvaccinated. Since the most recent surge over the last two months, nearly a million more people in Florida have gotten sick. About 14,000 have died and 200,000 have had serious cases. If there is good news, it appears the delta variant might have peaked, but you can bet there is another one coming next. Keep in mind that is mostly unvaccinated people, so it’s a million out of the roughly 8,000,000 people who aren’t vaccinated yet, around a 12% infection rate.
The Front Line docs will do a video call with you and prescribe Ivermectin if indicated. I posted a link to a Tweet by Abby Jonhson and here family's bout with COVID (family of ten) and their use of Ivermectin.
The FDA is trying to scare people with this ad....https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
Why do you come here and try and scare people?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 22, 2021, 05:47:39 AM
You have heard that the use of Ivermectin is dangerous, right?
It would be much more accurate to say that the use of the wrong strength dosage of Ivermectin is dangerous. Which is pretty much true of everything, including dihydrogen monoxide.
Post by: Number7 on August 22, 2021, 05:53:37 AM
You have heard that the use of Ivermectin is dangerous, right?
...in other words.... Orange Man Bad!!!
and
How can big pharma continue to bribe fucking democrat communist lawmakers end civil rights, shut down any disagreement with government without the billions being scammed out of people in the name of the scamdemic?
but
mostly
Orange Man Bad
Post by: Rush on August 22, 2021, 06:21:51 AM
“Second doses should be administered as close to the recommended interval as possible.
If it is not feasible to adhere to the recommended interval, you may schedule the second dose up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose; there is limited efficacy data beyond this window, but a dose after this time does not need to be repeated.”
Help me interpret that. Does that say the second dose doesn’t need to be repeated after 6 weeks? Or between 21 days and 6 weeks?
It sound to me like after 6 weeks which would mean Walgreens lied to me.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 22, 2021, 06:30:00 AM
I tried to get my second shot yesterday. (Pfizer). They were all ready to give it to me and when they saw my first dose was 86 days ago they said it’s too late, now I have to start all over again. This will count as the first and I can’t get Pfizer, I have to get Moderna (same stupid shit as the last time, they won’t open a vial for the “first shot” but will for the second). They told me that was the CDC guideline. I said no. Went home and looked it up on the CDC website:
“Second doses should be administered as close to the recommended interval as possible.
If it is not feasible to adhere to the recommended interval, you may schedule the second dose up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose; there is limited efficacy data beyond this window, but a dose after this time does not need to be repeated.”
Help me interpret that. Does that say the second dose doesn’t need to be repeated after 6 weeks? Or between 21 days and 6 weeks?
It sound to me like after 6 weeks which would mean Walgreens lied to me.
SMH... what a fuster cluck
I would suggest talking to your doctor.... and maybe getting a note telling whoever to just give you the 2nd shot (assuming that your doctor tells you to get it)
Post by: Lucifer on August 22, 2021, 06:45:05 AM
Just imagine for one moment if the government made the effort to treat Covid rather than insist these vaccines are the only way. Ivermectin, as well as HCQ have been used for decades and is very safe, as well as highly effective.
But that would mean big pharma would have profits cut, which means politicians would lose money, and more importantly, power.
Post by: Rush on August 22, 2021, 07:15:24 AM
You have heard that the use of Ivermectin is dangerous, right? The cases of poisoning in Mississippi got so bad that the state issued a direct warning against trying it. The concentration of what you can buy is too strong for humans. The advice to use Ivermectin is literally poisoning people.
I agree that many people have decided against the vaccines and that is sad because they work. Ask any HC professional who is dying from COVID right now and the answer is unvaccinated people. Sure, there are some breakthrough cases, but that’s true of any vaccine. Still, you are much, much less likely to get COVID and if you do, it will be a mild case that you can recover from at home. That is a win all around and it’s sad that so many focus on the anecdotal evidence of adverse reactions.
Most people have heard of side effects like myocarditis, but they probably don’t know that there are only 792 confirmed cases out of 183,000,000 vaccinated people. In the 12-15 range, it was 144 cases out of 6,000,000 vaccinations. If you believe the vaccines are not safe, you have been lied to, played by a media that thrives on drama.
Overall, the death rate for an unvaccinated person who gets sick is about 1.4%, but nearly 20% will have a serious case. If we don’t control it, everyone will get sick…and we are nowhere close to controlling it.
My bell weather state right now is still Florida. Despite a very high vaccination level, the delta variant is still running wild there, again mostly among the unvaccinated. Since the most recent surge over the last two months, nearly a million more people in Florida have gotten sick. About 14,000 have died and 200,000 have had serious cases. If there is good news, it appears the delta variant might have peaked, but you can bet there is another one coming next. Keep in mind that is mostly unvaccinated people, so it’s a million out of the roughly 8,000,000 people who aren’t vaccinated yet, around a 12% infection rate.
People were drinking bleach too and getting poisoned. Want to ban bleach? If you’re an idiot and can’t do math to calculate the right human dose from veterinary paste, sure you’ll overdose. People eat Tide Pods. People are stupid.
Post by: Lucifer on August 22, 2021, 07:30:19 AM
People were drinking bleach too and getting poisoned. Want to ban bleach? If you’re an idiot and can’t do math to calculate the right human dose from veterinary paste, sure you’ll overdose. People eat Tide Pods. People are stupid.
Again, our government health agencies are failing us by not aggressively prescribing and distributing drugs that are highly effective (more effective than these crap vaccines) and unlike the vaccine, won’t kill you or debilitate a person.
All in the name of the almighty dollar. Just like endless wars, it’s all about profit.
Post by: Username on August 22, 2021, 07:32:39 AM
“Second doses should be administered as close to the recommended interval as possible.Second the vote on checking with your doctor. I interpret this to mean that if you're outside the 6 weeks, they really don't know if this new one counts as a second or a new first. But if you get a second shot outside this window you don't have to get another second after that one.
If it is not feasible to adhere to the recommended interval, you may schedule the second dose up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose; there is limited efficacy data beyond this window, but a dose after this time does not need to be repeated.”
Help me interpret that. Does that say the second dose doesn’t need to be repeated after 6 weeks? Or between 21 days and 6 weeks?
It sound to me like after 6 weeks which would mean Walgreens lied to me.
Unless you have to get a booster.
This is a complete disaster. Rolling out vaccines that may or may not work for who knows how long or how many you'll need when. Gee... if only they did some actual testing and GOOD data collection.
Post by: Rush on August 22, 2021, 07:37:03 AM
Again, our government health agencies are failing us by not aggressively prescribing and distributing drugs that are highly effective (more effective than these crap vaccines) and unlike the vaccine, won’t kill you or debilitate a person.
All in the name of the almighty dollar. Just like endless wars, it’s all about profit.
If the government would encourage these treatments instead of censoring information about them and threatening doctors who prescribe them, then people wouldn’t have to go buy OTC horse paste.
Post by: Anthony on August 22, 2021, 07:39:32 AM
Second the vote on checking with your doctor. I interpret this to mean that if you're outside the 6 weeks, they really don't know if this new one counts as a second or a new first. But if you get a second shot outside this window you don't have to get another second after that one.
Unless you have to get a booster.
This is a complete disaster. Rolling out vaccines that may or may not work for who knows how long or how many you'll need when. Gee... if only they did some actual testing and GOOD data collection.
Completely agree.
Post by: Lucifer on August 22, 2021, 07:42:20 AM
If the government would encourage these treatments instead of censoring information about them and threatening doctors who prescribe them, then people wouldn’t have to go buy OTC horse paste.
Bingo.
Other countries have proven the effectiveness of ivermectin and HCQ, and make it readily available to the population, hence why they are not having a problem.
Remember when the msm was celebrating “the delta variant” in India as they predicted mass casualties? Then all of the sudden, the msm dropped all stories? Because the Indians began wide scale ivermectin and stopped the problem.
Post by: Rush on August 22, 2021, 08:17:45 AM
The issue is, I have the card with one dose. Walgreens wants to start me all over, meaning, they'll shred that card and start a new card, requiring me to get the second shot if I want "proof" I'm fully vaccinated. Otherwise I could just let them give me one more Pfizer shot and call it a day. I don't have to go back for the third. But if they won't put that shot on my existing card, will I run into problems if American Airlines starts checking cards when you travel?
I just want one more Pfizer shot and them to write it on my existing card. Then I'm through. Maybe if I ever have to show the card nobody will look at the dates.
I cannot believe I could ever be in a situation where I can't travel or take a job because my shots were 86 days apart instead of 45 days apart. But I wouldn't be surprised.
Post by: bflynn on August 22, 2021, 08:18:48 AM
It would be much more accurate to say that the use of the wrong strength dosage of Ivermectin is dangerous. Which is pretty much true of everything, including dihydrogen monoxide.
Yes, it is. Because that’s what people are doing. Don’t need no gummint people telling me what I can and can’t do, I heard that stuff I give my horse works…
Post by: Lucifer on August 22, 2021, 08:22:53 AM
I'm going go to CVS and talk to their pharmacist. Maybe they'll take my money.
The issue is, I have the card with one dose. Walgreens wants to start me all over, meaning, they'll shred that card and start a new card, requiring me to get the second shot if I want "proof" I'm fully vaccinated. Otherwise I could just let them give me one more Pfizer shot and call it a day. I don't have to go back for the third. But if they won't put that shot on my existing card, will I run into problems if American Airlines starts checking cards when you travel?
I just want one more Pfizer shot and them to write it on my existing card. Then I'm through. Maybe if I ever have to show the card nobody will look at the dates.
I cannot believe I could ever be in a situation where I can't travel or take a job because my shots were 86 days apart instead of 45 days apart. But I wouldn't be surprised.
The goal post will keep moving. Just follow the money. Big Pharma has never received such huge windfalls, and they damn sure are not going to give up that income stream. This is why “boosters” will be mandated.
Post by: bflynn on August 22, 2021, 08:25:09 AM
This is a complete disaster. Rolling out vaccines that may or may not work for who knows how long or how many you'll need when. Gee... if only they did some actual testing and GOOD data collection.
The vaccines do work. It is statements like this that reveal you’re one of the people who got played.
There is data. But there is no data past about a year for obvious reasons. Do you get your science from reading actual data or from some media hack who want to stir things up? Whoever has told you the vaccines don’t work has lied to you. You can decide if it was intentional or accidental.
Post by: Number7 on August 22, 2021, 08:25:46 AM
Failing to see the danger in preemptive medicine for politics is what makes people like POS and flynn useless noise in room full of noisemakers.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 22, 2021, 08:26:13 AM
I'm going go to CVS and talk to their pharmacist. Maybe they'll take my money.
The issue is, I have the card with one dose. Walgreens wants to start me all over, meaning, they'll shred that card and start a new card, requiring me to get the second shot if I want "proof" I'm fully vaccinated. Otherwise I could just let them give me one more Pfizer shot and call it a day. I don't have to go back for the third. But if they won't put that shot on my existing card, will I run into problems if American Airlines starts checking cards when you travel?
I just want one more Pfizer shot and them to write it on my existing card. Then I'm through. Maybe if I ever have to show the card nobody will look at the dates.
I cannot believe I could ever be in a situation where I can't travel or take a job because my shots were 86 days apart instead of 45 days apart. But I wouldn't be surprised.
I think it’s painfully obvious at this point that the goal is going to be boosters and new series ad infinitum. There is a strong resistance in me to that.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 22, 2021, 08:29:46 AM
The vaccines do work. It is statements like this that reveal you’re one of the people who got played.
There is data. But there is no data past about a year for obvious reasons. Do you get your science from reading actual data or from some media hack who want to stir things up? Whoever has told you the vaccines don’t work has lied to you. You can decide if it was intentional or accidental.
Deaths from this not-really-a-vaccine (over 12,000 now on VAERS) quickly outstripped the paltry 50 or so that past vaccines were withdrawn for causing. That is supposed to inspire confidence?
Trust in government is gone. Sadly, the medical community is so entwined with government as to be dubiously trustworthy as well.
Post by: Lucifer on August 22, 2021, 08:34:59 AM
Deaths from this not-really-a-vaccine (over 12,000 now on VAERS) quickly outstripped the paltry 50 or so that past vaccines were withdrawn for causing. That is supposed to inspire confidence?
Trust in government is gone. Sadly, the medical community is so entwined with government as to be dubiously trustworthy as well.
Keep in mind VAERS is vastly underreported.
Post by: Username on August 22, 2021, 09:14:59 AM
The vaccines do work. It is statements like this that reveal you’re one of the people who got played.It depends on how you define "work". They don't keep you from getting COVID. They do have some effectiveness in keeping it from being severe. But even that is being questioned.
There is data. But there is no data past about a year for obvious reasons. Do you get your science from reading actual data or from some media hack who want to stir things up? Whoever has told you the vaccines don’t work has lied to you. You can decide if it was intentional or accidental.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison
Quote
But Israel later reported the vaccine’s effectiveness to be 90% effective against severe disease, but 39% against infection in its population in late June and early July, based on an analysis of the country's national health statistics. This could suggest that it is less effective against Delta or possibly waning over time, which has added to a debate about whether booster shots may be needed and for whom. All of this is still being monitored.But since we don't know what a "case" is and most infections are asymptomatic and most people with no symptoms don't get tested we have no idea who has it, how effective the vaccine really is, how long it lasts, how its effectiveness changes over time, how effective it is on the various varieties, whether its effectiveness changes based on demographics, general health of the person, diet, supplements, other conditions, other vaccines, and on and on.
They do work? How do you know? Yes, I got my two shots and a booster. I'm doing what I believe is the right thing for me and those close to me. But I still have VERY grave doubts about big pharma and government policymakers driving the conversation. Is it effective? I don't know. Will it be effective in the future? I don't know. Does it cause side effects? I don't know. Does it cause SEVERE side effects? I don't know. And neither does anyone else.
Post by: bflynn on August 22, 2021, 10:54:13 AM
Deaths from this not-really-a-vaccine (over 12,000 now on VAERS) quickly outstripped the paltry 50 or so that past vaccines were withdrawn for causing. That is supposed to inspire confidence?
Trust in government is gone. Sadly, the medical community is so entwined with government as to be dubiously trustworthy as well.
When trust in government comes from your own lack of knowledge, who is at fault?
You don't seem to understand that you cannot just pull a number out of VAERS and scream about it, you have to compare it to the expected events in the general population. Bottom line, we expect that roughly 40,000 people who got vaccines should have died within 2 week of getting their shot. That actual number would be lower because you don't give a vaccine to a terminal patient.
Doctors are required to report all deaths to VAERS if they occur within 2 weeks. We've had 200,000,000 people get at least 1 shot. 12,000 deaths is a rational number and does not indicate people are dying because of the vaccine.
There are roughly 328m people in the US and about 2.9m of us die every year. In any given 2 week time period, we expect 111,500 people to die. We're roughly 34 weeks through the year, so every 2 week time period, we've had about 2.1% of the population get vaccinated on average. Of those getting vaccinated, we expect that 2.1% * 111,500 will die - 2341 per 2 week period. 2341 * 17 time periods gives the expected value of 40k.
Post by: Little Joe on August 22, 2021, 10:57:11 AM
Post by: Rush on August 22, 2021, 11:00:09 AM
When trust in government comes from your own lack of knowledge, who is at fault?
You don't seem to understand that you cannot just pull a number out of VAERS and scream about it, you have to compare it to the expected events in the general population. Bottom line, we expect that roughly 40,000 people who got vaccines should have died within 2 week of getting their shot. That actual number would be lower because you don't give a vaccine to a terminal patient.
Doctors are required to report all deaths to VAERS if they occur within 2 weeks. We've had 200,000,000 people get at least 1 shot. 12,000 deaths is a rational number and does not indicate people are dying because of the vaccine.
There are roughly 328m people in the US and about 2.9m of us die every year. In any given 2 week time period, we expect 111,500 people to die. We're roughly 34 weeks through the year, so every 2 week time period, we've had about 2.1% of the population get vaccinated on average. Of those getting vaccinated, we expect that 2.1% * 111,500 will die - 2341 per 2 week period. 2341 * 17 time periods gives the expected value of 40k.
Your logic is right but your first sentence is wrong. I have knowledge of these numbers but that is not the reason I don't trust the government. I don't trust them because they lied, obfuscated, and manipulated information and are getting private Big Tech firms to censor any point of view not in lock step with the approved agenda, which by the way keeps changing. Mask? No mask? Two masks? Mask if you've been vaccinated? No mask if you've been vaccinated? etc.
Post by: Rush on August 22, 2021, 11:00:33 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-is-booed-at-alabama-rally-for-encouraging-covid-19-shots/ss-AANBynp?ocid=msedgntp
I'm sure they still love him anyway.
Post by: bflynn on August 22, 2021, 11:03:27 AM
It depends on how you define "work". They don't keep you from getting COVID. They do have some effectiveness in keeping it from being severe. But even that is being questioned.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison
You're correct. There are ALWAYS breakthrough cases with vaccines. Ever got the flu shot and then got the flu? Lots of people do because the flu shot just isn't that effective, about 40%
But if you do get the vaccine and get covid, you don't get as sick and you'll most likely recover at home.
BTW, I don't think you read your link. It's really just a comparison of the vaccines and it notes that effectiveness is down over time (97% down to 84% against delta). It's disappointing that the effects of the vaccine is fading, but not really unexpected. Many vaccines fade over time.
They do work? How do you know?
To quote the first line of your article - "In the United States, the highly transmissible Delta variant is driving an uptick in COVID-19 cases, primarily among the unvaccinated. " If the vaccines didn't work, we would not be seeing cases primarily limited to the unvaccinated.
Post by: Number7 on August 22, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
When trust in government comes from your own lack of knowledge, who is at fault?
You don't seem to understand that you cannot just pull a number out of VAERS and scream about it, you have to compare it to the expected events in the general population. Bottom line, we expect that roughly 40,000 people who got vaccines should have died within 2 week of getting their shot. That actual number would be lower because you don't give a vaccine to a terminal patient.
Doctors are required to report all deaths to VAERS if they occur within 2 weeks. We've had 200,000,000 people get at least 1 shot. 12,000 deaths is a rational number and does not indicate people are dying because of the vaccine.
There are roughly 328m people in the US and about 2.9m of us die every year. In any given 2 week time period, we expect 111,500 people to die. We're roughly 34 weeks through the year, so every 2 week time period, we've had about 2.1% of the population get vaccinated on average. Of those getting vaccinated, we expect that 2.1% * 111,500 will die - 2341 per 2 week period. 2341 * 17 time periods gives the expected value of 40k.
Ohhh... anointed establishment punk.
Your wisdom is sooooo amusing.
Post by: elwood blues on August 22, 2021, 01:28:34 PM
The goal post will keep moving. Just follow the money. Big Pharma has never received such huge windfalls, and they damn sure are not going to give up that income stream. This is why “boosters” will be mandated.
Surely you meant to say, "political donations from Big Pharma ..."
Post by: texasag93 on August 22, 2021, 04:18:12 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-is-booed-at-alabama-rally-for-encouraging-covid-19-shots/ss-AANBynp?ocid=msedgntp
There is no video of this happening in your link. Just pictures and type.
MSN loves to lie about everything Trump.
Give us a link to it actually happening and I will believe it.
Otherwise it is just MSN lying again and you perpetuating a lie.
Post by: Lucifer on August 22, 2021, 04:29:08 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/update-servants-wear-masks-pelosis-chi-chi-napa-brunch-video/
Just like Obama's birthday party, where the excuse was "they don't need mask, they're sophisticated".
Oh, and the wide open border.
Post by: bflynn on August 22, 2021, 05:19:33 PM
Example: Biden’s handlers are not embarrassed because 15,000 Americans are trapped in Afghanistan. They are embarrassed by the negative political light it casts on them.
Post by: Lucifer on August 23, 2021, 04:28:30 AM
https://nypost.com/2021/08/22/video-shows-hoards-of-maskless-people-at-pelosi-fundraiser/
(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/08/pelosi-no-mask-party-04.jpg?quality=90&strip=all)
(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/08/pelosi-no-mask-party-03.jpg?quality=90&strip=all)
https://twitter.com/GOPLeader/status/1429494364556996614
Post by: Rush on August 23, 2021, 04:38:25 AM
Post by: nddons on August 23, 2021, 04:44:57 AM
To be fair they are eating and outside, but they shouldn’t be gathering at all if they tell us you can spread the virus even if vaccinated and all sitting so close together. Why aren’t they having a remote zoom meeting?Fortunately this virus can’t spread while eating 18” - 24” away from another person.
What a fucking joke. We are being played.
Post by: Lucifer on August 23, 2021, 04:46:53 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 23, 2021, 04:48:29 AM
To be fair they are eating and outside, but they shouldn’t be gathering at all if they tell us you can spread the virus even if vaccinated and all sitting so close together. Why aren’t they having a remote zoom meeting?
That's for the peasants. The elites are too sophisticated to have to abide by the rules they create.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 23, 2021, 04:51:32 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 23, 2021, 04:57:19 AM
Notice the help is masked.
Of course! Filthy peasants!
Oh, and they are mostly minorities, unlike Nancy's guest.
Post by: Rush on August 23, 2021, 10:12:25 AM
I'm going go to CVS and talk to their pharmacist. Maybe they'll take my money.
The issue is, I have the card with one dose. Walgreens wants to start me all over, meaning, they'll shred that card and start a new card, requiring me to get the second shot if I want "proof" I'm fully vaccinated. Otherwise I could just let them give me one more Pfizer shot and call it a day. I don't have to go back for the third. But if they won't put that shot on my existing card, will I run into problems if American Airlines starts checking cards when you travel?
I just want one more Pfizer shot and them to write it on my existing card. Then I'm through. Maybe if I ever have to show the card nobody will look at the dates.
I cannot believe I could ever be in a situation where I can't travel or take a job because my shots were 86 days apart instead of 45 days apart. But I wouldn't be surprised.
I went to CVS and they had Pfizer and didn't bat an eye. They gave me the shot and filled out the card, so now I'm "fully" vaccinated. He seemed totally disinterested when I mentioned it had been 80 some days since the first shot.
So Walgreens LIED to me. Here are the instruction for Pfizer vaccine from the CDC itself. Remember Walgreens said if it had been over 45 days then I had to start all over with the 2 shots.
Bottom of page 2:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/downloads/prep-and-admin-summary.pdf
Quote
Administer the second dose as close to the recommended interval (21 days) as possible. If the second dose is not administered within 42 days of the first dose, the series does not need to be restarted.
Does NOT need to be restarted. Couldn't be more clear.
Post by: nddons on August 23, 2021, 10:46:30 AM
I went to CVS and they had Pfizer and didn't bat an eye. They gave me the shot and filled out the card, so now I'm "fully" vaccinated. He seemed totally disinterested when I mentioned it had been 80 some days since the first shot.To be fair, it may not be Walgreens itself. It could be an elite pharmacist who thinks he’s doing God’s work for him by administering life-saving (sarcasm) vaccines, and stopping rogue doctors for DARING to prescribe medications that are not authorized by the pharmacology book the pharmacist looks at. Soon pharmacists will demand to be called “Doctor.”
So Walgreens LIED to me. Here are the instruction for Pfizer vaccine from the CDC itself. Remember Walgreens said if it had been over 45 days then I had to start all over with the 2 shots.
Bottom of page 2:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/downloads/prep-and-admin-summary.pdf
Does NOT need to be restarted. Couldn't be more clear.
Post by: Rush on August 23, 2021, 10:57:21 AM
To be fair, it may not be Walgreens itself. It could be an elite pharmacist who thinks he’s doing God’s work for him by administering life-saving (sarcasm) vaccines, and stopping rogue doctors for DARING to prescribe medications that are not authorized by the pharmacology book the pharmacist looks at. Soon pharmacists will demand to be called “Doctor.”
Actually I think they pulled it out their ass. The guy took my card and looking confused went in the back and had a long conversation with one of his cohorts. It was obviously a curve ball they hadn’t seen before. I think they just made shit up because they didn’t know.
Post by: Anthony on August 23, 2021, 11:06:00 AM
To be fair they are eating and outside, but they shouldn’t be gathering at all if they tell us you can spread the virus even if vaccinated and all sitting so close together. Why aren’t they having a remote zoom meeting?
Half of them are obese and much more at risk from Diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure and others than freaking Covidscam.
Post by: nddons on August 23, 2021, 11:06:06 AM
Actually I think they pulled it out their ass. The guy took my card and looking confused went in the back and had a long conversation with one of his cohorts. It was obviously a curve ball they hadn’t seen before. I think they just made shit up because they didn’t know.Lots of that going around, that’s for sure.
Post by: Lucifer on August 23, 2021, 01:32:02 PM
Post by: bflynn on August 23, 2021, 01:51:14 PM
Is he dying from covid? No, he's dying from a stroke. But he had a healthy heart until 2 months ago, so I don't really care about the semantics.
He is 25.
Post by: jb1842 on August 23, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Post by: Number7 on August 23, 2021, 02:09:00 PM
My asthmatic brother supposedly had COVID in April.
For four days he complained of having the worst cold in years, if not decades.
The fifth day he was outside cutting the lawn.
Post by: Rush on August 23, 2021, 02:24:55 PM
My nephew just had two strokes, caused by covid. It's very likely he will die if he hasn't already. He had covid about 2 months ago and it weakened his heart. His Ejection Fraction (EF) was down to 25%, which means blood was flowing very poorly through his heart. Blood clots ensued in his heart and brain. He has been in the hospital for 2 days now, but the doctors called for the entire family to come in for a discussion...not a good sign.
Is he dying from covid? No, he's dying from a stroke. But he had a healthy heart until 2 months ago, so I don't really care about the semantics.
He is 25.
I’m so sorry to hear that. Prayers for your family.
Post by: Little Joe on August 23, 2021, 03:01:51 PM
Sob stories aside...And odds are that if he got the vaccine he would have had a sore arm for a few hours instead 4 days of the worst cold in decades. Yeah, good trade.
My asthmatic brother supposedly had COVID in April.
For four days he complained of having the worst cold in years, if not decades.
The fifth day he was outside cutting the lawn.
My 32 yr old unvaccinated nephew got COVID and was bedridden for a week. Now he is fine. But his 9 yr old son got it from him and was in the hospital for 3 days. He is slowly getting better. Now his father (my brother) is home sick and feeling like shit. He did have the vaccine, but got it anyway. He also doesn't have insurance due to issues related to his ongoing divorce problems. And he has used up all of his sick time since so he is home without pay.
If that stupid nephew of mine had gotten the vaccine, I'm guessing none of that would have happened.
Post by: Lucifer on August 23, 2021, 03:04:53 PM
And odds are that if he got the vaccine he would have had a sore arm for a few hours instead 4 days of the worst cold in decades. Yeah, good trade.
My 32 yr old unvaccinated nephew got COVID and was bedridden for a week. Now he is fine. But his 9 yr old son got it from him and was in the hospital for 3 days. He is slowly getting better. Now his father (my brother) is home sick and feeling like shit. He did have the vaccine, but got it anyway. He also doesn't have insurance due to issues related to his ongoing divorce problems. And he has used up all of his sick time since so he is home without pay.
If that stupid nephew of mine had gotten the vaccine, I'm guessing none of that would have happened.
It would be great if the family doctor recognized the benefit of Ivermectin and prescribed it to the family. Then it would have been very mild, if that.
But the mindset is, get covid, then see if it gets worse or bad enough to be hospitalized. Don't do anything that has been proven to reduce or eliminate the symptoms.
Post by: Number7 on August 23, 2021, 03:54:21 PM
And odds are that if he got the vaccine he would have had a sore arm for a few hours instead 4 days of the worst cold in decades. Yeah, good trade.
My 32 yr old unvaccinated nephew got COVID and was bedridden for a week. Now he is fine. But his 9 yr old son got it from him and was in the hospital for 3 days. He is slowly getting better. Now his father (my brother) is home sick and feeling like shit. He did have the vaccine, but got it anyway. He also doesn't have insurance due to issues related to his ongoing divorce problems. And he has used up all of his sick time since so he is home without pay.
If that stupid nephew of mine had gotten the vaccine, I'm guessing none of that would have happened.
Why do you nanny state, fucking pussies seem so obsessed with destroying it personal rights and privacy???
Post by: Rush on August 23, 2021, 04:21:41 PM
And odds are that if he got the vaccine he would have had a sore arm for a few hours instead 4 days of the worst cold in decades. Yeah, good trade.
My 32 yr old unvaccinated nephew got COVID and was bedridden for a week. Now he is fine. But his 9 yr old son got it from him and was in the hospital for 3 days. He is slowly getting better. Now his father (my brother) is home sick and feeling like shit. He did have the vaccine, but got it anyway. He also doesn't have insurance due to issues related to his ongoing divorce problems. And he has used up all of his sick time since so he is home without pay.
If that stupid nephew of mine had gotten the vaccine, I'm guessing none of that would have happened.
Maybe if the 32 year old got the vaccine he would had gotten the myocarditis. Who knows?
Post by: Little Joe on August 23, 2021, 04:22:16 PM
Why do you always put 2 and 2 together and come up with 2?
Why do you nanny state, fucking pussies seem so obsessed with destroying it personal rights and privacy???
If you could keep two thought together in your head at once, you might come up with different insults.
Post by: Little Joe on August 23, 2021, 04:36:59 PM
Maybe if the 32 year old got the vaccine he would had gotten the myocarditis. Who knows?And if I throw dice, maybe I'll come up with snake-eyes 6 times in a row? Who knows?
For the record, I have never said anyone should be forced to get the vaccine. In fact, I have often said the opposite. But that doesn't mean that I don't think getting it is a good decision and not getting it is a bad decision that can cause harm to others, including young children and grand parents.
Post by: Number7 on August 23, 2021, 07:22:45 PM
Why do you always put 2 and 2 together and come up with 2?
If you could keep two thought together in your head at once, you might come up with different insults.
Look...
If you want the vaccine, nobody is stopping you. I don't give a shit either way.
If you want to virtue signal by wearing a face diaper, wear your diaper. I still don't give a shit.
Why is it so hard for you pussies to worry about you and leave others to decide for themselves?
You just can't help yourselves. You must force everyone to respect your bullshit and when we reject it, you lose your fucking narrow minds.
Post by: Anthony on August 24, 2021, 02:30:42 AM
Post by: bflynn on August 24, 2021, 05:28:23 AM
Scared old men can go sit in the tee pee with the women. The rest of us will go out and fight.
What are you fighting? A virus? Democrats? Accepting that you're mortal?
Post by: Rush on August 24, 2021, 05:45:26 AM
Scared old men can go sit in the tee pee with the women. The rest of us will go out and fight.
To be fair the covid really is a threat to old people. Over 50, it becomes a real thing. The threat increases alarmingly the older you get. The whole problem with this disease isn’t that we took it seriously, it’s that we shut everything down everywhere instead of targeting measures only where needed. We knew from almost the start that it was next to no threat to young people. Schools should never have closed at all. Same for all businesses. Senior centers, nursing homes and hospitals only should have closed or implemented strict protective measures. Keep grandma at home. Let everybody else get on with life.
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 05:57:28 AM
To be fair the covid really is a threat to old people. Over 50, it becomes a real thing. The threat increases alarmingly the older you get. The whole problem with this disease isn’t that we took it seriously, it’s that we shut everything down everywhere instead of targeting measures only where needed. We knew from almost the start that it was next to no threat to young people. Schools should never have closed at all. Same for all businesses. Senior centers, nursing homes and hospitals only should have closed or implemented strict protective measures. Keep grandma at home. Let everybody else get on with life.
Covid is deadly to the obese as well. Fat people with various ailments that come with the obesity are in a much higher risk group.
Post by: Number7 on August 24, 2021, 06:00:22 AM
Covid is deadly to the obese as well. Fat people with various ailments that come with the obesity are in a much higher risk group.
Yep... and the flu, a bad cold, cancer, heart disease.....
Post by: Steingar on August 24, 2021, 07:48:57 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 07:55:30 AM
Get the fucking shot! It's safe (the FDA just approved it, for those of you who give a shit) and will keep you out of the hospital and out of the morgue. It will also make it far less likely that you'll pass the disease on to others. Praying won't do it. Ivermectin won't do it (I can't imagine who decided a horse dewormer would do scat on COVID!). The vaccines will.
My doctor is a far more intelligent man than an associate perfesser that barely knows the material he teaches.
He has prescribed me and countless others Ivermectin because it works and has a high level of success. He believes in being proactive in treatment.
On the FDA approved vaccine, it was so comforting that the FDA essentially just tossed out everything and granted approval for political expediency.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/fda-approval-letter-pfizer-vaccine-several-key-future-dates-complete-studies-threw-garbage-approved-yesterday/
And the VAERS data? Guess we should ignore that as well. After all, big pharma is counting on those continuing windfalls.
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 07:58:31 AM
Get the fucking shot!
This is what whacked out empty minded liberals can't understand. ORDERING others to do what they demand is not the way.
I know you embrace marxism and having a society in which rights are granted by the government, but the majority of us are happy with our constitutional republic and limiting the power of government.
Have you ever considered teaching in a communist country?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 24, 2021, 08:32:49 AM
Get the fucking shot! It's safe (the FDA just approved it, for those of you who give a shit) and will keep you out of the hospital and out of the morgue. It will also make it far less likely that you'll pass the disease on to others. Praying won't do it. Ivermectin won't do it (I can't imagine who decided a horse dewormer would do scat on COVID!). The vaccines will.
You’re practicing intellectual racism. Most people who decline being a part of the largest and most corrupt drug trial in human history are smart.
https://ivmmeta.com
https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19
https://www.thedesertreview.com/news/national/ivermectin-obliterates-97-percent-of-delhi-cases/article_6a3be6b2-c31f-11eb-836d-2722d2325a08.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finnish_firm_earns_us_patent_for_covid_drug_containing_ivermectin_and_hydroxychloroquine/11946611
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/double-blind-ivermectin-study-reveals-covid-19-patients-recover-more-quickly-have-reduce
http://www.maximpulse.com/permethrin/ivermectin-calculating-a-dose.html
https://covid19criticalcare.com/guide-for-this-website/how-to-get-ivermectin/
https://gab.com/KanekoaTheGreat/posts/106478418240954410
Post by: Username on August 24, 2021, 08:35:13 AM
Get the fucking shot! It's safe (the FDA just approved it, for those of you who give a shit)Whoop de fucking doo. The FDA never approved something that proved to be harmful, let alone fatal?
Not arguing against getting the shot if you want one. Just that you fell into the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy: Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered.
Post by: Username on August 24, 2021, 08:36:34 AM
Ivermectin won't do it (I can't imagine who decided a horse dewormer would do scat on COVID!).Ivermectin works! Have you ever seen a horse with COVID?
Post by: Rush on August 24, 2021, 08:38:04 AM
Get the fucking shot! It's safe (the FDA just approved it, for those of you who give a shit) and will keep you out of the hospital and out of the morgue. It will also make it far less likely that you'll pass the disease on to others. Praying won't do it. Ivermectin won't do it (I can't imagine who decided a horse dewormer would do scat on COVID!). The vaccines will.
That’s simply not true. There’s plenty of evidence ivermectin works, it’s being used around the world. Here’s just one of many studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8101859/
Quote
A single dose of ivermectin was well-tolerated in symptomatic patients with COVID-19, and important clinical features of COVID-19 were improved with ivermectin use, including dyspnea, cough, and lymphopenia.
Post by: Number7 on August 24, 2021, 08:48:40 AM
When the leftists start demanding everyone obey, you know the result is bad for you, bad for liberty, bad for everyone except the fucking commies like the fda.
Post by: Number7 on August 24, 2021, 08:54:44 AM
Get the fucking shot! It's safe (the FDA just approved it, for those of you who give a shit) and will keep you out of the hospital and out of the morgue.
It will also make it far less likely that you'll pass the disease on to others.
professor POS is frightened.
The communist party (democrat) has told him to be frightened.
Those not frightened are now the enemy...
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 24, 2021, 09:12:53 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 09:19:26 AM
Quote
JERUSALEM—The massive surge of COVID-19 infections in Israel, one of the most vaccinated countries on earth, is pointing to a complicated path ahead for America.
In June, there were several days with zero new COVID infections in Israel. The country launched its national vaccination campaign in December last year and has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, with 80 percent of citizens above the age of 12 fully inoculated. COVID, most Israelis thought, had been defeated. All restrictions were lifted and Israelis went back to crowded partying and praying in mask-free venues.
Fast forward two months later: Israel reported 9,831 new diagnosed cases on Tuesday, a hairbreadth away from the worst daily figure ever recorded in the country—10,000—at the peak of the third wave. More than 350 people have died of the disease in the first three weeks of August. In a Sunday press conference, the directors of seven public hospitals announced that they could no longer admit any coronavirus patients. With 670 COVID-19 patients requiring critical care, their wards are overflowing and staff are at breaking point.
“I don’t want to frighten you,” coronavirus czar Dr. Salman Zarka told the Israeli parliament this week. “But this is the data. Unfortunately, the numbers don’t lie.”
Quote
Israel vaccinated its population almost exclusively with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, which received full FDA approval on Monday and remains the gold standard for the prevention of severe illness due to the coronavirus.
Post by: Steingar on August 24, 2021, 10:09:27 AM
My doctor is a far more intelligent man than an associate perfesser that barely knows the material he teaches.
He has prescribed me and countless others Ivermectin because it works and has a high level of success. He believes in being proactive in treatment.
Your doctor is nearly as stupid as you are. Ivermectin is a veterinary dewormer, it doesn't do jack to COVID and can be dangerous. My hypothesis about your "doctor" is either he got his med degree at some shit Caribbean Med school or he's a jumped up chiropractor. I'm serious, you need a new doctor, preferably someone board certified.
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 10:19:41 AM
Your doctor is nearly as stupid as you are. Ivermectin is a veterinary dewormer, it doesn't do jack to COVID and can be dangerous. My hypothesis about your "doctor" is either he got his med degree at some shit Caribbean Med school or he's a jumped up chiropractor. I'm serious, you need a new doctor, preferably someone board certified.
He is board certified in internal medicine. Graduated University of Texas. He has a whole host of accreditations after his name.
You're attacking this guy without knowing what or who you are talking about.
As for Ivermectin, again, you have no idea what you are talking about (which has become the norm for you).
Are you drinking again?
Post by: Number7 on August 24, 2021, 10:19:48 AM
Your doctor is nearly as stupid as you are. Ivermectin is a veterinary dewormer, it doesn't do jack to COVID and can be dangerous. My hypothesis about your "doctor" is either he got his med degree at some shit Caribbean Med school or he's a jumped up chiropractor. I'm serious, you need a new doctor, preferably someone board certified.
mikey is showing his racism hood and bedsheet again.
Whenever a low information socialist, like mike, loses on the facts the instant racist blather and bullshit begins.
Post by: Rush on August 24, 2021, 10:21:42 AM
Your doctor is nearly as stupid as you are. Ivermectin is a veterinary dewormer, it doesn't do jack to COVID
Then how do you explain all the randomized controlled scientific studies that prove it works against covid?
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 10:26:00 AM
Then how do you explain all the randomized controlled scientific studies that prove it works against covid?
He can't. That would take someone with a little knowledge in science and critical thought. Right now the liquor is talking for the perfesser.
Post by: Steingar on August 24, 2021, 10:42:38 AM
Then how do you explain all the randomized controlled scientific studies that prove it works against covid?
They don't.
https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003501 (https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003501)
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184 (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184)
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 24, 2021, 10:53:31 AM
Post by: Rush on August 24, 2021, 10:54:06 AM
They don't.
https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003501 (https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003501)
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184 (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184)
Did you even read those? They looked at HOSPITALIZED and SEVERE cases. You have to use the hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin VERY EARLY in the course.
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 11:01:35 AM
Did you even read those? They looked at HOSPITALIZED and SEVERE cases. You have to use the hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin VERY EARLY in the course.
Absolutely. Asked my doctor how his practice on covid was working, he said he's prescribed Ivermectin to be used with zinc and vitamin C and D, and after hundreds of cases he hasn't lost one yet.
But it has to be started at the onset.
Post by: Username on August 24, 2021, 12:33:05 PM
Did you even read those? They looked at HOSPITALIZED and SEVERE cases. You have to use the hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin VERY EARLY in the course.They gave the medications to people and they died right away. Of course they would have died right away anyway as they were hospitalized in severe terminal condition. But let's blame it on hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 24, 2021, 12:41:33 PM
They gave the medications to people and they died right away. Of course they would have died right away anyway as they were hospitalized in severe terminal condition. But let's blame it on hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
So, I guess those deaths were counted as hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin deaths, and not covid, right?
Post by: Rush on August 24, 2021, 12:55:54 PM
They gave the medications to people and they died right away. Of course they would have died right away anyway as they were hospitalized in severe terminal condition. But let's blame it on hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
It’s so frustrating. I made a long post about this a year ago on the Pilots Place I think it was, presenting the data about having to use it early and the anti-hydroxychloroquine people, including the venerable Dr. Bruce (who I still respect and admire anyway) just have a total blind spot for some reason, just flat refuse to acknowledge that the studies showing it is INeffective were all done on already hospitalized people! You don’t have to have a medical degree or a PhD to understand the logic here: it must be used very early in the course, that’s hardly an unknown medical concept. Here it is a year later and these people still seem to have never come across this critical detail.
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 01:06:49 PM
Post by: Rush on August 24, 2021, 01:34:50 PM
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/15-treatment-gets-covid-patients-off-ventilators-in-under-a-week-study-677479
Well the FDA needs to get to work unapproving it now.
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 01:44:02 PM
Covid Survival Rate
Age
0 to 14 99.9998%
15 to 44 99.9931%
45 to 64 99.9294%
65 to 85 99.6297%
above 85 98.2499%
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 24, 2021, 01:55:08 PM
Keep these numbers in mind:
Covid Survival Rate
Age
0 to 14 99.9998%
15 to 44 99.9931%
45 to 64 99.9294%
65 to 85 99.6297%
above 85 98.2499%
source please?
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 24, 2021, 02:17:30 PM
They don't.
https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003501 (https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003501)
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184 (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184)
While I never meta-analysis I liked, here are two newer meta-analysis that include additional studies that contradict those earlier analysis:
https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Fulltext/2021/08000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.7.aspx (https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Fulltext/2021/08000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.7.aspx)
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s43440-021-00245-z (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s43440-021-00245-z)
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 24, 2021, 03:27:03 PM
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/faq-covid-19-and-ivermectin-intended-animals
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 03:31:19 PM
Here is what Mikey is reacting to. It has been making the rounds on all the Liberal media sites.
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/faq-covid-19-and-ivermectin-intended-animals
Quote
You should not take any medicine to treat or prevent COVID-19 unless it has been prescribed to you by your health care provider and acquired from a legitimate source.
So my Doctor (MD) prescibed Ivermectin, and is was acquired via a pharmacy (Walgreens). But a moronic perfesser says it doesn't work and my doctor wasn't a real doctor. Got it.
You can always tell when the perfesser has been tipping the bottle a bit too much. Today was more proof.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 24, 2021, 04:20:16 PM
So my Doctor (MD) prescibed Ivermectin, and is was acquired via a pharmacy (Walgreens). But a moronic perfesser says it doesn't work and my doctor wasn't a real doctor. Got it.90 proof? 8)
You can always tell when the perfesser has been tipping the bottle a bit too much. Today was more proof.
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 24, 2021, 04:48:18 PM
Here is what Mikey is reacting to. It has been making the rounds on all the Liberal media sites.
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/faq-covid-19-and-ivermectin-intended-animals
What I found interesting is that page provides a link to an in vitro study published June of last year that lists, among other things, these highlights:
• Ivermectin is an inhibitor of the COVID-19 causative virus (SARS-CoV-2) in vitro.
• A single treatment able to effect ~5000-fold reduction in virus at 48 h in cell culture.
If the contents of that page are being passed around as evidence that Ivermectin isn’t effective then there is a lot of shallow reading going on. Plenty of studies have been done on humans since that in vitro study.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 24, 2021, 05:03:27 PM
The corruption is wide and deep. And I think people are seeing it.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on August 24, 2021, 05:30:01 PM
Then how do you explain all the randomized controlled scientific studies that prove it works against covid?
Funny how we're not hearing about stacks of bodies in India...
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 06:10:15 PM
My pharmacy said they are not going to be selling Ivermectin anymore so will not refill my Rx. Talked to the pharmacist. She said it is not approved by the FDA, which is an untruth. I told her the FDA was corrupt and trying to suppress treatments for Covid. She agreed. I kid you not. We then talked about the corruption of big pharma and even got into the stolen election being allowed to stand.
The corruption is wide and deep. And I think people are seeing it.
Go to an online pharmacy. If you need, pm and I’ll send info.
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 06:13:44 PM
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/interesting-vaccine-comments-from-putin/
Post by: Little Joe on August 24, 2021, 06:32:08 PM
This should make the perfesser happy.Putin's perception of "persuasion" may be different than ours.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/interesting-vaccine-comments-from-putin/
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 06:33:34 PM
Putin's perception of "persuasion" may be different than ours.
Post by: Rush on August 24, 2021, 06:59:45 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 24, 2021, 07:02:14 PM
Post by: Anthony on August 25, 2021, 04:18:37 AM
My pharmacy said they are not going to be selling Ivermectin anymore so will not refill my Rx. Talked to the pharmacist. She said it is not approved by the FDA, which is an untruth. I told her the FDA was corrupt and trying to suppress treatments for Covid. She agreed. I kid you not. We then talked about the corruption of big pharma and even got into the stolen election being allowed to stand.
The corruption is wide and deep. And I think people are seeing it.
Not enough people are seeing it nor believing it because of the constant, and I do mean constant Propaganda from MEDIA, Tech, Government, Education, Entertainment, Corporations, etc. People are being overwhelmed by Misinformation and Disinformation.
This is a coordinated, corrupt campaign of Oppression.
Post by: Steingar on August 25, 2021, 06:04:55 AM
Post by: Rush on August 25, 2021, 06:44:22 AM
Theo there day I went to an Urgent Care facility for trouble with my eye (a bit of a story in itself, but I digress). The MD (first one I ever saw with a big tattoo) put fluorescene in my eye. It was much improved the next day. Lots of MD's would think that fluorescene is curative for my eye problem, just like they think Ivermectin in curative for COVID. Same reasoning.
Correlation isn’t causation, we know. Even those of us without PhDs. But controlled studies account for that and have shown ivermectin to be helpful in reducing symptoms and preventing severe disease, not a cure, nobody ever claimed that. Just a treatment. There are no cures for viruses, your immune system must do it but there are lots of things that help support your immune system.
Post by: Lucifer on August 25, 2021, 06:55:16 AM
Correlation isn’t causation, we know. Even those of us without PhDs. But controlled studies account for that and have shown ivermectin to be helpful in reducing symptoms and preventing severe disease, not a cure, nobody ever claimed that. Just a treatment. There are no cures for viruses, your immune system must do it but there are lots of things that help support your immune system.
Ask yourself why there is so much discourse with the democrat communist over treating Covid? The current group thought is to get the virus, go home and see what happens. If a person gets sick enough to require hospitalization, then and only then start using procedures which depending on other underlying causes may hasten death.
Many doctors are prescribing Ivermectin, HCQ and a few others with great success in treating the virus at the onset. Yet these doctors are disparaged, censored and trampled on by the DC who desperately want to see a death count.
Covid is communism. It's just that simple. If we would have had a functioning public health and would let doctors do their jobs, Covid would have came and went with hardly a notice.
Post by: Username on August 25, 2021, 07:05:19 AM
But once you have COVID, why not do everything possible to keep it from becoming serious? If there is a medication that keeps the infection from becoming serious, why not? If that medication is proven to be safe when used as a doctor directs, why not? Why are people so STRONGLY against doing whatever is necessary to keep someone who is already infected from getting very sick, hospitalized, or dead? It's too late for the vaccine. Too late to protect by wearing a mask. Yet these people say, "Too bad. You got infected. No medicine for you. Now go die." I don't get it.
Post by: Lucifer on August 25, 2021, 07:10:18 AM
Yet these people say, "Too bad. You got infected. No medicine for you. Now go die." I don't get it.
Punishment. Dehumanization. Banish from society.
Communism in action. Conform or be cast out.
Post by: Rush on August 25, 2021, 07:20:30 AM
This is what I don't understand. Yes, get the vaccine if you want and it may keep you from contracting the virus and if you do get the virus it may help keep it from becoming serious. Wear a mask if you want if you think it keeps you healthy, or if you want to appear to be a "good citizen" and keep others from being infected if you are infected and don't know it.
But once you have COVID, why not do everything possible to keep it from becoming serious? If there is a medication that keeps the infection from becoming serious, why not? If that medication is proven to be safe when used as a doctor directs, why not? Why are people so STRONGLY against doing whatever is necessary to keep someone who is already infected from getting very sick, hospitalized, or dead? It's too late for the vaccine. Too late to protect by wearing a mask. Yet these people say, "Too bad. You got infected. No medicine for you. Now go die." I don't get it.
Ordinary people like Steingar? Bought the propaganda. The people that keep information about these treatments from being publicly aired? Big Tech and government kissing each other's ass (and that's putting it cleanly) for money and power. If these treatments were widely promoted, there would be little justification for forced vaccination (money) or continued lockdowns (destruction of the middle class for power).
Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquin and vitamin D are NOT big money makers for the already rich.
Post by: Lucifer on August 25, 2021, 07:23:15 AM
Ordinary people like Steingar? Bought the propaganda. The people that keep information about these treatments from being publicly aired? Big Tech and government kissing each other's ass (and that's putting it cleanly) for money and power. If these treatments were widely promoted, there would be little justification for forced vaccination (money) or continued lockdowns (destruction of the middle class for power).
Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquin and vitamin D are NOT big money makers for the already rich.
https://techstartups.com/2021/04/30/bill-gates-turned-55-million-investment-pfizers-partner-biontech-550-million-just-two-years/
Post by: Steingar on August 25, 2021, 07:40:42 AM
This is what I don't understand. Yes, get the vaccine if you want and it may keep you from contracting the virus and if you do get the virus it may help keep it from becoming serious. Wear a mask if you want if you think it keeps you healthy, or if you want to appear to be a "good citizen" and keep others from being infected if you are infected and don't know it.
That is the rational and intelligent thing to do. Americans doing just this beat Smallpox and Polio.
But once you have COVID, why not do everything possible to keep it from becoming serious? If there is a medication that keeps the infection from becoming serious, why not? If that medication is proven to be safe when used as a doctor directs, why not? Why are people so STRONGLY against doing whatever is necessary to keep someone who is already infected from getting very sick, hospitalized, or dead? It's too late for the vaccine. Too late to protect by wearing a mask. Yet these people say, "Too bad. You got infected. No medicine for you. Now go die." I don't get it.
Because these drugs are dangerous and don't really do much. Steroids work well on severe cases, and I just read about a new drug that inhibits the virus protease which I hope has therapeutic value.
Post by: Username on August 25, 2021, 07:56:34 AM
That is the rational and intelligent thing to do. Americans doing just this beat Smallpox and Polio.They could be dangerous when not used as prescribed. But a person has COVID and has no other option, why would you deny that person a chance to recover? Maybe it works, maybe not. But if safe when used correctly, why not? Even if it's not safe when used correctly, why deny the person a chance of getting through the disease? Having the disease is better than whatever the drug might do?
Because these drugs are dangerous and don't really do much. Steroids work well on severe cases, and I just read about a new drug that inhibits the virus protease which I hope has therapeutic value.
Post by: Rush on August 25, 2021, 08:03:08 AM
That is the rational and intelligent thing to do. Americans doing just this beat Smallpox and Polio.
Because these drugs are dangerous and don't really do much. Steroids work well on severe cases, and I just read about a new drug that inhibits the virus protease which I hope has therapeutic value.
I agree it's rational to get the shot if you're older or obese or living with someone you want to protect. But those drugs aren't dangerous used correctly, and do help if used in phase 1 of the disease (the ambulatory phase). Steroids are appropriate for phase 2 (cytokine storm).
https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/aaps-Guide-to-Home-Based-Covid-Treatment.pdf
Do you think you could maybe read it, please?
Post by: Lucifer on August 25, 2021, 08:06:40 AM
I agree it's rational to get the shot if you're older or obese or living with someone you want to protect. But those drugs aren't dangerous used correctly, and do help if used in phase 1 of the disease (the ambulatory phase). Steroids are appropriate for phase 2 (cytokine storm).
https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/aaps-Guide-to-Home-Based-Covid-Treatment.pdf
Do you think you could maybe read it, please?
He won't. He only follows "the science", which is the state approved doctrine.
Post by: Lucifer on August 25, 2021, 08:08:52 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 25, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 25, 2021, 08:53:29 AM
He won't. He only follows "the science", which is the state approved doctrine.
stolen from POA...
Post by: jb1842 on August 25, 2021, 09:09:34 AM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 25, 2021, 09:14:13 AM
Wife got the first pfizer shot this morning. Already starting to feel like crap. According to our pharmacist friend, that means she already had covid sometime in the past (feeling sick after second shot means you didn't have covid). Seems like we should develop better tests to see if you had covid in the past, so you don't have to risk getting side effects, etc., from getting a shot you don't need.
Two of the people I know that had covid-19, both of them felt like ka-RAP after each shot.
Other people I know that had covid-19 had no meaningful reaction to either shot.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 25, 2021, 09:25:40 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2021, 09:54:19 AM
Wife got the first pfizer shot this morning. Already starting to feel like crap. According to our pharmacist friend, that means she already had covid sometime in the past (feeling sick after second shot means you didn't have covid). Seems like we should develop better tests to see if you had covid in the past, so you don't have to risk getting side effects, etc., from getting a shot you don't need.
Those tests are available. In fact, my good friend told me on our hike last Monday that she had the antibody test this winter when she and her husband were in Arizona and caught Covid. Yep, both of them had antibodies.
But last week she gave platelets and they required another antibody test. Curious, she watched the website to see if she still had them. Kept seeing “Results delayed.” Finally she called.
She was told those results are no longer given out because if positive, it makes people feel like they don’t need to get a vaccine.
THIS IS HER OWN FUCKING MEDICAL INFORMATION THEY WILL NOT GIVE TO HER.
Post by: Rush on August 25, 2021, 09:55:47 AM
Wife got the first pfizer shot this morning. Already starting to feel like crap. According to our pharmacist friend, that means she already had covid sometime in the past (feeling sick after second shot means you didn't have covid).
Maybe. Also in that equation is how robust your immune system is. (Or isn’t.) I had my second Pfizer shot two days ago and all I have so far is a slightly sore arm. Knock on wood. Oh, and I haven’t had covid as far as I know.
Post by: jb1842 on August 25, 2021, 09:56:13 AM
Those tests are available. In fact, my good friend told me on our hike last Monday that she had the antibody test this winter when she and her husband were in Arizona and caught Covid. Yep, both of them had antibodies.
But last week she gave platelets and they required another antibody test. Curious, she watched the website to see if she still had them. Kept seeing “Results delayed.” Finally she called.
She was told those results are no longer given out because if positive, it makes people feel like they don’t need to get a vaccine.
THIS IS HER OWN FUCKING MEDICAL INFORMATION THEY WILL NOT GIVE TO HER.
I thought the current tests only showed if you had it over the past 3 months.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2021, 09:57:41 AM
I thought the current tests only showed if you had it over the past 3 months.
Who knows? If they know, they’re not telling.
Post by: Rush on August 25, 2021, 10:50:51 AM
Those tests are available. In fact, my good friend told me on our hike last Monday that she had the antibody test this winter when she and her husband were in Arizona and caught Covid. Yep, both of them had antibodies.
But last week she gave platelets and they required another antibody test. Curious, she watched the website to see if she still had them. Kept seeing “Results delayed.” Finally she called.
She was told those results are no longer given out because if positive, it makes people feel like they don’t need to get a vaccine.
THIS IS HER OWN FUCKING MEDICAL INFORMATION THEY WILL NOT GIVE TO HER.
That’s illegal. Unless I’m mistaken you have a right to your own information, although HIPPAA applies to “providers” and I don’t know if donating platelets is considered seeing a “provider”.
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/righttoaccessmemo.pdf
In any case they can file a complaint. I wouldn’t be surprised if whoever told her not to give out results just made stuff up, like the guy at Walgreens telling me the CDC said I have to start the series all over if it’s been more than 6 weeks. (I don’t per the CDC guidelines.)
Post by: Little Joe on August 25, 2021, 12:41:11 PM
I agree. Ivermectin is dangerous.
Because these drugs are dangerous and don't really do much. Steroids work well on severe cases, and I just read about a new drug that inhibits the virus protease which I hope has therapeutic value.
If you take a dose meant for a horse, you may have to go see a doctor to be treated for the over dose.
Also, there is, uh, there is, er, I mean it could . . . uh,
Hey Steingar, help me out here. What else is dangerous about Ivermectin other than the risk of stupid people taking a dose meant for a horse? This stuff is also used in cats. Will I die if I take my cat's Ivermectin? Or would I have to take a couple of hundred of them.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2021, 02:01:43 PM
Too large a dose, yes. But one of the safest drugs on the market, and has been approved for human use for decades.
The only danger from ivermectin is not being able to get it because of corrupt people and agencies.
Post by: Lucifer on August 25, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
Post by: jb1842 on August 25, 2021, 02:25:09 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 25, 2021, 02:29:48 PM
Post by: bflynn on August 25, 2021, 03:26:20 PM
It’s such a hoot seeing people say ivermectin is dangerous.
If COVID is nothing to worry about, what do you need ivermectin for?
And too large of a dose is exactly the problem. The horse stuff is far too concentrated.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 25, 2021, 03:26:37 PM
Post by: Rush on August 25, 2021, 04:15:58 PM
If COVID is nothing to worry about, what do you need ivermectin for?
And too large of a dose is exactly the problem. The horse stuff is far too concentrated.
It’s called math.
Post by: Number7 on August 25, 2021, 04:16:17 PM
If COVID is nothing to worry about, what do you need ivermectin for?
And too large of a dose is exactly the problem. The horse stuff is far too concentrated.
Hahahahahahahaha…..
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2021, 07:32:25 PM
If COVID is nothing to worry about, what do you need ivermectin for?
And too large of a dose is exactly the problem. The horse stuff is far too concentrated.
Where or when have I ever said Covid is not a problem? Ivermectin is one weapon in our arsenal for treating it.
And cannot people read labels and calculate a dose based on body weight? My doctor prescribed ivermectin for me based on my weight.
You are beginning to irritate.
Post by: Number7 on August 26, 2021, 12:47:56 AM
If COVID is nothing to worry about, what do you need ivermectin for?
And too large of a dose is exactly the problem. The horse stuff is far too concentrated.
That is NONE of your business.
It's not the government's business and it's not the ducking media's business.
None of you have any business deciding for people what their personal health choices are legal, or necessary.
You fucking liberal twits are so busy obscuring the point you almost have the entire country defending the wrong thing.
Post by: bflynn on August 26, 2021, 05:40:12 AM
It’s called math.
There are people in this country that can't find the US on the map. You want them to do MATH too?
(and they vote)
Post by: Username on August 26, 2021, 05:41:31 AM
Post by: bflynn on August 26, 2021, 05:45:26 AM
Where or when have I ever said Covid is not a problem?
Hmmm...I suppose I implied that because you are anti-vaccine. They work, but you deny it and I implied that meant you didn't consider covid a serious thing. If that is wrong, then I was wrong and I apologize.
Post by: Rush on August 26, 2021, 05:46:51 AM
There are people in this country that can't find the US on the map. You want them to do MATH too?
(and they vote)
Don’t restrict my freedom because other people are stupid.
And you edited your post…. Don’t get me started on voting.
Post by: Lucifer on August 26, 2021, 06:02:33 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 26, 2021, 06:05:13 AM
Post by: Little Joe on August 26, 2021, 06:07:48 AM
And cannot people read labels and calculate a dose based on body weight? My doctor prescribed ivermectin for me based on my weight.As far as I know, overdosage is the only problem reported lately with people using Ivermectin.
Part of the problem is that many people CANNOT read the directions correctly.
And if they do, they can't do the math (especially the part where the dosage is described as mg/kg. How many people can do that conversion to ounces or teaspoons per pound.
Then there is the issue that the dosage described on the horse package will be wrong, even if you do correctly follow the label because horses metabolize the medicine much differently than humans. That is why often times a 15# cat takes the same size dose or more than a human would take.
But if people follow the directions for humans, and can determine the strength of the product they are buying (more math converting that to "human strength product), then the only complaint I have heard goes away.
But i still don't know if it's safe. Ivermectin for Covid in humans has been studied less than COVID vaccinations for children. People (including people on this board) often say that there is not enough data to support the governments recommendations. I agree. But there is even less controlled study data for the use of Ivermectin for COVID in humans. Yes, there is a ton of anecdotal evidence, but no real controlled scientific studies
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 26, 2021, 07:10:03 AM
Hmmm...I suppose I implied that because you are anti-vaccine. They work, but you deny it and I implied that meant you didn't consider covid a serious thing. If that is wrong, then I was wrong and I apologize.
Well, the jabs don’t work. Their effectiveness has declined in less than a year. And there’s even evidence they make matters worse on many levels.
But hark, Pfizer has a new one in the pipeline that will boost you. That is the one just given corrupt FDA approval, not the current one. It’s even less “trial” tested. But sure, line up for it. I believe you are free to do so. I read that around half the people who are double jabbed are declining the idea of boosting.
As far as I know, overdosage is the only problem reported lately with people using Ivermectin.
Part of the problem is that many people CANNOT read the directions correctly.
And if they do, they can't do the math (especially the part where the dosage is described as mg/kg. How many people can do that conversion to ounces or teaspoons per pound.
Then there is the issue that the dosage described on the horse package will be wrong, even if you do correctly follow the label because horses metabolize the medicine much differently than humans. That is why often times a 15# cat takes the same size dose or more than a human would take.
But if people follow the directions for humans, and can determine the strength of the product they are buying (more math converting that to "human strength product), then the only complaint I have heard goes away.
But i still don't know if it's safe. Ivermectin for Covid in humans has been studied less than COVID vaccinations for children. People (including people on this board) often say that there is not enough data to support the governments recommendations. I agree. But there is even less controlled study data for the use of Ivermectin for COVID in humans. Yes, there is a ton of anecdotal evidence, but no real controlled scientific studies
How many times do I have to post the links of controlled studies for use of ivermectin against Covid, both prophylactically and for treatment? Did you read any of them?
I bet you were happy when that woman sued McDonalds and won when they handed her a hot cup of coffee and she burned herself on it. That little incident gave us “Caution: The beverage you are about to drink is very hot” printed on cups.
Choose: Let people be free and live in this world or “Govern me, Daddy, harder!” in a fictionally “safe” world.
Government and all its agencies cannot be trusted.
Post by: nddons on August 26, 2021, 07:53:18 AM
This is what I don't understand. Yes, get the vaccine if you want and it may keep you from contracting the virus and if you do get the virus it may help keep it from becoming serious. Wear a mask if you want if you think it keeps you healthy, or if you want to appear to be a "good citizen" and keep others from being infected if you are infected and don't know it.Because Orange Man Bad. Duh.
But once you have COVID, why not do everything possible to keep it from becoming serious? If there is a medication that keeps the infection from becoming serious, why not? If that medication is proven to be safe when used as a doctor directs, why not? Why are people so STRONGLY against doing whatever is necessary to keep someone who is already infected from getting very sick, hospitalized, or dead? It's too late for the vaccine. Too late to protect by wearing a mask. Yet these people say, "Too bad. You got infected. No medicine for you. Now go die." I don't get it.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 26, 2021, 08:14:33 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 26, 2021, 09:07:53 AM
Post by: Little Joe on August 26, 2021, 10:18:55 AM
Yes I did. They were very convincing, but I am not qualified to make that determination for others. You can read (or write) anything you want and someone will believe it.
How many times do I have to post the links of controlled studies for use of ivermectin against Covid, both prophylactically and for treatment? Did you read any of them?
But the main point of my post was addressing your question about people being able to read directions. I don't think most people can understand the difference between a horse's ability to metabolize meds vs humans ability to metabolize the same meds, nor do I think most people can convert "migs per kig) (mg/kg) to tspoons/pound and then do the simple math to get their dose.
Quote
I bet you were happy when that woman sued McDonalds and won when they handed her a hot cup of coffee and she burned herself on it. That little incident gave us “Caution: The beverage you are about to drink is very hot” printed on cups.Where the fuck did that come from? I don't even know how to address such a stupid conclusion.
Quote
Choose: Let people be free and live in this world or “Govern me, Daddy, harder!” in a fictionally “safe” world.You are sounding more and more like another person on this board that seems to think if I disagree with ANYthing he says then I must disagree with EVERYthing he says.
Government and all its agencies cannot be trusted.
Apparently the only thing you remember about me is that my wife is a liberal. You seem to not recall any of the vast majority of my positions that align with yours.
Post by: Rush on August 26, 2021, 10:28:40 AM
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/gov-abbott-issues-new-order-blocking-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-even-if-approved-by-fda/2727061/
Too bad that doesn’t include large corporate “private” businesses like the power company.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 26, 2021, 11:18:52 AM
Post by: Little Joe on August 26, 2021, 11:25:09 AM
Joe, I did make the leap that you thought ivermectin should be controlled because people were too stupid to figure out how to use it, like they’re too stupid to know that’s coffee is hot.
Apology accepted.
My point was that people in general are too stupid/ignorant to be going to the feed store and buying a product formulated for a horse and doing the conversions and calculations for human use.
They SHOULD be able to get it from their doctor (or a pharmacist) with appropriate human dosing instructions.
Another point I made (a different thread) was that as far as I can tell, inadvertent overdosing (for the reasons I described) have been the only legitimate objection to Ivermectin that I have seen. And the only reason for that objection is bureaucratic, not medical.
Post by: Lucifer on August 26, 2021, 11:37:37 AM
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/aussie-journalist-suffers-intense-vaccine-side-effect/
Post by: bflynn on August 26, 2021, 12:34:39 PM
but, I'll say it again: your body, your choice.
I agree here too, but the Left won't let us. People who don't get the vaccine because they don't trust it are driving the Left into removing my choice. Then it becomes your body, my impact.
Post by: nddons on August 26, 2021, 01:59:07 PM
I agree here too, but the Left won't let us. People who don't get the vaccine because they don't trust it are driving the Left into removing my choice. Then it becomes your body, my impact.I’m not sure I follow. People who don’t want to get the vaccine are forcing the left to make it mandatory, which eliminates your choice not to get the vaccine?
Post by: Number7 on August 26, 2021, 04:04:27 PM
I’m not sure I follow. People who don’t want to get the vaccine are forcing the left to make it mandatory, which eliminates your choice not to get the vaccine?
I think he means that everyone should get the vaccine so he doesn't have to.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 26, 2021, 07:10:50 PM
Post by: Number7 on August 27, 2021, 03:05:17 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9930855/Natural-immunity-Covid-infection-stronger-vaccination-Israeli-study-suggests.html
Post by: bflynn on August 27, 2021, 05:39:04 AM
https://www.technocracy.news/shock-european-union-reports-1-5-million-vaccine-injuries-15472-deaths/
Wow, those are some high numbers.
What do the expected values for those diseases look like for the general population, pre-covid? Every one of those things happened before the vaccine and without a rate comparison, the entire article is scientific navel lint, designed to manipulate you into mistrusting the vaccine. Why? The media thrives on drama and there should be no drama around the vaccines, but they are manufacturing it so they can make money.
I've done this comparison multiple times in the US with VAERS. The numbers are in line with expected values is almost every category except young male heart issues and those are only slightly elevated. The CDC has required a warning about that be added to the vaccine information.
Post by: Lucifer on August 27, 2021, 05:41:43 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 27, 2021, 06:16:59 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html
Quote
(CNN)Vaccine experts are warning the federal government against rushing out a coronavirus vaccine before testing has shown it's both safe and effective. Decades of history show why they're right.
Post by: nddons on August 27, 2021, 06:38:18 AM
My my how the narrative shiftsThat was back when Orange Man Bad. Since then, CNN must have talked with Steingar, so all’s good now. It’s safer than breathing fresh air.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html
Post by: Lucifer on August 27, 2021, 06:52:12 AM
That was back when Orange Man Bad. Since then, CNN must have talked with Steingar, so all’s good now. It’s safer than breathing fresh air.
Yep.
Absolutely amazing how a change of administration does a 180 on the narrative. If Trump was still president the democrat communist would be embracing the VAERS reports and publicizing each and every vaccine death, and running endless sob stories showing those debilitated by the vaccine.
Quote
"The way he (Trump) talks about the vaccine is not particularly rational. He’s talking about it being ready, he’s going to talk about moving it quicker than the scientists think it should be moved … . People don’t believe that he’s telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done."- Joe Biden
Quote
"Look at what’s happened. Enormous pressure put on the CDC not to put out the detailed guidelines. The enormous pressure being put on the FDA to say they’re going, that the following protocol will in fact reduce, it will have a giant impact on COVID. All these things turn out not to be true, and when a president continues to mislead and lie, when we finally do, God willing, get a vaccine, who’s going to take the shot? Who’s going to take the shot? You going to be the first one to say, ‘Put me — sign me up, they now say it’s OK’? I’m not being facetious."- Joe Biden
Quote
"How are you going to distribute the vaccine when it arrives, when it arrives, when it’s there? And the question of whether it’s real, when it’s there, that requires enormous transparency. You’ve got to make all of it available to other experts across the nation, so they can look and see, so there’s consensus this is a safe vaccine. Because already you have, what percent is American people saying if the vaccine were there tomorrow, they wouldn’t take it? And it’s not the usual anti-vaccine crowd. It’s beyond that because people are losing faith in what the president says. Think about it." - Joe Biden
Post by: Anthony on August 27, 2021, 06:56:48 AM
Post by: bflynn on August 27, 2021, 07:06:16 AM
I’m not sure I follow. People who don’t want to get the vaccine are forcing the left to make it mandatory, which eliminates your choice not to get the vaccine?
I didn't use the word forcing because it isn't a direct control. The Left's reaction to people refusing the vaccine has been lockdowns again, mask mandates and now vaccination papers requirements. If you don't have your papers, you can't do things.
So, people won't trust the vaccine are prompting the Left to react in ways that are negative to me. I went 6 months without flying last year because the people running the flying club shut the place down out of fear and they're hinting they're going to do it again until we increase the percentage of vaccinations in the state. Which is just freaking stupid.
Not suggesting this is a reason to get the vaccine, only pointing out that there are impacts to others when a large group doesn't do it.
The right answer is what Florida is doing - open everything up and have zero health requirements. Let those who choose to be vulnerable take the impact of their decision rather than it being passed on to everyone.
Post by: Rush on August 27, 2021, 07:13:44 AM
I didn't use the word forcing because it isn't a direct control. The Left's reaction to people refusing the vaccine has been lockdowns again, mask mandates and now vaccination papers requirements. If you don't have your papers, you can't do things.
So, people won't trust the vaccine are prompting the Left to react in ways that are negative to me. I went 6 months without flying last year because the people running the flying club shut the place down out of fear and they're hinting they're going to do it again until we increase the percentage of vaccinations in the state. Which is just freaking stupid.
Not suggesting this is a reason to get the vaccine, only pointing out that there are impacts to others when a large group doesn't do it.
The right answer is what Florida is doing - open everything up and have zero health requirements. Let those who choose to be vulnerable take the impact of their decision rather than it being passed on to everyone.
Agree.
Post by: nddons on August 27, 2021, 07:24:16 AM
Yep.Spot on. Those VAERS reports would be on poster boards in the House and Senate chambers during never ending speeches and hearings on Trump’s reckless rollout of this dangerous vaccine.
Absolutely amazing how a change of administration does a 180 on the narrative. If Trump was still president the democrat communist would be embracing the VAERS reports and publicizing each and every vaccine death, and running endless sob stories showing those debilitated by the vaccine.
Post by: Rush on August 27, 2021, 07:32:15 AM
Spot on. Those VAERS reports would be on poster boards in the House and Senate chambers during never ending speeches and hearings on Trump’s reckless rollout of this dangerous vaccine.
Yep. And some wonder why don’t trust anything the media/government tells us.
They’ve turned the whole pandemic and everything associated with it into political weapons for their sick authoritarian cause.
Post by: nddons on August 27, 2021, 07:38:03 AM
Yep. And some wonder why don’t trust anything the media/government tells us.And it NEVER had to get political. But the DCP and their lemming followers couldn’t help themselves, solely due to the fact that they were not in power at that moment.
They’ve turned the whole pandemic and everything associated with it into political weapons for their sick authoritarian cause.
Post by: Little Joe on August 27, 2021, 08:33:27 AM
I've done this comparison multiple times in the US with VAERS. The numbers are in line with expected values is almost every category except young male heart issues and those are only slightly elevated. The CDC has required a warning about that be added to the vaccine information.I kind of look at this as being like adding camguard to the oil in a big bore Continental. It doesn't cause the starter adapter to go bad, but if it is already bad it will make it more obvious.
Post by: Lucifer on August 27, 2021, 10:10:33 AM
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/1-6-million-moderna-vaccine-doses-withdrawn-in-japan-over-metallic-contamination/
Post by: jb1842 on August 27, 2021, 10:11:38 AM
And it NEVER had to get political. But the DCP and their lemming followers couldn’t help themselves, solely due to the fact that they were not in power at that moment.
It was an election year. It had to get political for the left to use it as a weapon.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 27, 2021, 11:18:31 AM
Obviously they don't understand and just need to suck it up and get the shot! FDA said it was OK, right?
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/1-6-million-moderna-vaccine-doses-withdrawn-in-japan-over-metallic-contamination/
Steingar and bflynn say so too.
Post by: bflynn on August 27, 2021, 11:22:32 AM
Steingar and bflynn say so too.
Actually, that's the exact opposite of what I say. Get the shot, don't get the shot, it's on you.
My grief is really with government constraint of freedom.
Not suggesting this is a reason to get the vaccine, only pointing out that there are impacts to others when a large group doesn't do it.
The right answer is what Florida is doing - open everything up and have zero health requirements. Let those who choose to be vulnerable take the impact of their decision rather than it being passed on to everyone.
Post by: Steingar on August 27, 2021, 12:12:21 PM
My grief is really with government constraint of freedom.
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 27, 2021, 12:17:04 PM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?
Because they are free to get a “safe and effective” vaccine against it, and boosters ad infinitum.
Post by: Number7 on August 27, 2021, 12:23:07 PM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?
Your lack of cogent thought is no surprise.
That you are THIS DUMB is slightly surprising.
Post by: jb1842 on August 27, 2021, 12:34:53 PM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?
You might crash your plane into my house; you might crash your motorcycle into me while I'm crossing the street. You must stop doing that for my safety. You may be somewhere where someone with a gun is intent on doing harm. You must carry a gun with you to protect others.
Post by: Lucifer on August 27, 2021, 02:05:33 PM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-japanese-medical-association-chairman-tells-doctors-to-prescribe-ivermectin-for-covid/
Quote
Fri Aug 27, 2021 - 2:48 pm EDT
TOKYO (LifeSiteNews) – The chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, Haruo Ozaki, held a press conference this week announcing that the anti-parasite medicine Ivermectin seems to be effective at stopping COVID-19 and publicly recommending that all doctors in Japan immediately begin using Ivermectin to treat COVID.
Ivermectin has been a source of controversy amongst medical professionals regarding the possibility of therapeutic treatments for those diagnosed with COVID-19.
In an article about the suppression of Ivermectin by health authorities, Dr. Joseph Mercola wrote: “While the list of crimes committed by authorities during the COVID-19 pandemic is a long one, perhaps the biggest crime of all is the purposeful suppression of safe and effective treatments.”
Multiple reports and studies have shown evidence that Ivermectin is effective in combatting illness associated with COVID-19, and in some countries, like India, it is recommended for use even though the World Health Organization does not recommend it.
Dr. Ozaki cited evidence from African nations that have utilized Ivermectin during the pandemic. He stated: “In Africa, if we compare countries distributing Ivermectin once a year with countries who do not give Ivermectin… they don’t give Ivermectin to prevent COVID but to prevent parasitic disease… if we look at COVID numbers in countries that give Ivermectin, the number of cases is 134.4/100,000 and the number of deaths is 2.2/100,000.”
In 2019, Japan’s death rate from influenza amounted to 2.9 death cases per 100,000 inhabitants.
The Tokyo Medical Association chairman compared statistics from African countries that did use Ivermectin yearly with those that did not: “Now African countries which do not distribute Ivermectin: 950.6 cases per 100,000 and 29.3 deaths per 100,000.”
In his opinion, he believes that this shows a clear difference between the illness and fatality rates amongst nations that use Ivermectin and those that do not: “I believe the difference is clear. Of course one cannot conclude that Ivermectin is effective only on the basis of these figures, but when we have all of these elements, we cannot say that Ivermectin is absolutely not effective, at least not me.”
He added that, given the situation, other studies can be done to “confirm its efficacy,” insinuating that it is worth using as a treatment, given that in his estimation, Japan is “in a crisis situation.”
He said, “I think we are in a situation where we can afford to give [patients] this treatment.”
Another prominent Japanese physician, Dr. Kazuhiro Nagao, appeared on Japanese television proposing that COVID-19 should be treated as a Class 5 illness as opposed to its current classification as a Class 2. In Japan, illnesses are categorized by a classification system; approaching COVID as a Class 5 illness would mean that it could be treated like a seasonal flu.
Dr. Nagao said he has used Ivermectin as an early treatment for over 500 COVID patients with practically a 100% success rate, and that it should be used nationwide.
About the effectiveness of Ivermectin in treating COVID patients, he said: “It starts being effective the very next day… My patients can reach me by message 24/7 and they tell me they feel better the next day.”
Nagao was asked by the TV anchor when patients should take Ivermectin if diagnosed with COVID-19. He replied: “The same day, I mean if you are infected today, you take it today… It is a medication that should be given for mildly ill patients. If you give it to hospital patients, it’s too late. This is also the case for the majority of drugs… So you have to give Ivermectin. I am asking our Prime Minister Suga to distribute this drug ‘made in Japan’ on a large scale in the country.”
He added that four pills should be distributed to everyone in the country, so that people can take them “as soon as you are infected.”
Ivermectin originates from a single microbe unearthed from soil in Japan, and in recent years has been called a “wonder” drug that continues to surprise and exceed expectations. It has shown “unexpected” potential as an antibacterial, antiviral and anti-cancer agent, according to a 2017 article from The Journal of Antibiotics.
The same article stated: “Ivermectin has also been demonstrated to be a potent broad-spectrum specific inhibitor of importin α/β-mediated nuclear transport and demonstrates antiviral activity against several RNA viruses by blocking the nuclear trafficking of viral proteins.”
Recently, pro-life activist Abby Johnson wrote about her experience with a COVID and her use of Ivermectin as an early treatment. She wrote that under the guidance of America’s Frontline Doctors, she took a combination of Ivermectin, Prednisone and Zithromax, and that she noticed results straight away, and by the fifth day felt fully cured.
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 27, 2021, 02:11:22 PM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?
I hereby presume steingar is a repository of a deadly contagion. By the steingar’s own logic my presumption is valid insofar as disallowing steingar’s free movements that may have any chance of contaminating others. Since he could become a repository at any time there is no pathogen test result that would have lasting validity, ergo his movements would need to be restricted in perpetuity.
Post by: Username on August 27, 2021, 03:29:59 PM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?You'll have a 99.98% chance of missing?
Post by: nddons on August 27, 2021, 04:13:26 PM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?You are a fucking retard. Jesus Christ. So much for having an intelligent conversation with someone who claims to be the smartest person in the room.
Post by: Anthony on August 27, 2021, 05:13:00 PM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?
Sorry to pile on. That is absolutely moronic.
Post by: Lucifer on August 27, 2021, 05:15:54 PM
Post by: Number7 on August 27, 2021, 05:32:09 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 27, 2021, 06:02:15 PM
Post by: bflynn on August 27, 2021, 07:04:26 PM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?
Protect yourself. Get the vaccine and you’re covered. Then quit caring what others do, you might get something like a cold. Meanwhile all the anti-vaxers can keep the doctors and morticians in business.
Or, if you think the vaccines don’t work, isolate yourself because that’s the only way you can be sure. Masks and staying away won’t give you an assurance of not getting the virus.
Take responsibility for yourself. The virus is aerosolized, so don’t walk into it!
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 27, 2021, 07:48:07 PM
Protect yourself. Get the vaccine and you’re covered. Then quit caring what others do, you might get something like a cold. Meanwhile all the anti-vaxers can keep the doctors and morticians in business.
Or, if you think the vaccines don’t work, isolate yourself because that’s the only way you can be sure. Masks and staying away won’t give you an assurance of not getting the virus.
Take responsibility for yourself. The virus is aerosolized, so don’t walk into it!
So you’re okay with boosters every six months? What if you had, say, three beloved teenage sons? Would you be fine with them getting on the vax train, knowing the risks?
Post by: bflynn on August 27, 2021, 08:00:52 PM
As far as 6 month boosters? We do that on an annual basis for the flu. Why would 6 or 12 months matter?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 27, 2021, 08:02:38 PM
Every $ix month$.
Even as the deaths and side effects mount?
Fine for you. Not for me.
Post by: deeg on August 27, 2021, 10:15:10 PM
Wife got the first pfizer shot this morning. Already starting to feel like crap. According to our pharmacist friend, that means she already had covid sometime in the past (feeling sick after second shot means you didn't have covid). Seems like we should develop better tests to see if you had covid in the past, so you don't have to risk getting side effects, etc., from getting a shot you don't need.
Ummm... your pharmacist is an idiot. I had Covid in November. 1st shot in January, no side effects. Second shot in February? Made me sicker than when I had Covid
Post by: Rush on August 28, 2021, 02:18:56 AM
Ummm... your pharmacist is an idiot. I had Covid in November. 1st shot in January, no side effects. Second shot in February? Made me sicker than when I had Covid
Feeling sick is just your immune system’s reaction. Everybody’s immune system is different but overall, it gets weaker with age. This is probably why the pericarditis side effect occurs mainly in young men (it’s the immune system attacking your heart membrane, don’t know why the gender difference.) In general, older people have less side effect from the vaccine than younger people, but at the same time older people get sicker from the actual disease for the same reason (their immune system is weaker so can’t fight the actual virus). This is why an old person can be very seriously ill yet have no or low fever.
Your immune system’s reaction to both the disease and the vaccine is similar. Not identical because with the disease it’s got more than just the spike protein to react to, but similar. So each time you are exposed to the spike protein (whether by vaccine or by disease) your immune system should be that much more reactive.
So by the time you (deeg) got the second shot your immune system had been exposed to the spike protein twice already and was very primed to go.
The pharmacist was sort of right in that theoretically a noticeable reaction to the first shot means you’ve already been exposed before, but in reality I don’t think you can make that blanket statement because there is way too much individual variation. Some people can react very strongly to the first exposure, others might not react until the fourth or fifth, if ever, and everything in between.
Post by: Anthony on August 28, 2021, 02:41:09 AM
I have one son, but he is 21 now. He got vaccinated the first day he could and didn’t even discuss it with us. He took charge of himself rather than depend on others to make him “safe”.
As far as 6 month boosters? We do that on an annual basis for the flu. Why would 6 or 12 months matter?
So, an experimental chemical, made by others, promoted by every outside propaganda wielding Leftist institution on the planet, administered by others, is not "depending on others"? ::)
He was easily swayed by Media, corporations, government, Tech, education, social media, etc. Maybe a little critical thinking skills are in order? Young people are largely NOT AT RISK.
Post by: Little Joe on August 28, 2021, 04:42:53 AM
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-plans-covid-19-booster-shots-six-months-instead-eight-wsj-2021-08-25/Did I miss the part where they said "EVERY" six months? Sounds to me that adding "every" is like adding "man made" to climate change. Or like NOT saying "illegal" before alien (when the alien is here illegally).
Every $ix month$.
Even as the deaths and side effects mount?
Fine for you. Not for me.
But even if it was 6 months, I would prefer to do that than get COVID. I have seen the results up close and personal, and I'd rather have the vaccine.
Post by: Rush on August 28, 2021, 05:11:49 AM
So are we now going to have to start persecuting people who only have 2 shots and won’t get boosters? How about crucifying people that only wear one mask and won’t put on two?
Where does it end? This is a witch hunt, dehumanizing and hating a group of people YOU created by your lying and manipulating and obfuscating. That is why I ever doubted the vaccine in the first place - only because the “experts” and the government and media deliberately were less than forthright. It created the mistrust.
Post by: Number7 on August 28, 2021, 06:31:23 AM
Am I free to go and shoot your family members? Of course not! Why should you be free to transmit a lethal respiratory disease to mine?
POS mikey isn't concerned about the vaccine.
He is furious that all of us he sees as inferior to him have refused to do as we were ordered.
It's about his pathetic ego and even more pathetic intelligence.
Personal privacy and free choice never enters into his quite limited brain, because freedom of choice was always just a slogan he was told to accept, not a real thing when it became inconvenient.
Personal liberty is a concept far too great for POS because he wasn't indoctrinated into it. Like most academics, free thought is a sicknes that needs to be stamped out to insure obedience and control.
In mikey's mind he is entitled to respect and subservience because mommy always told him how he is a special snowflake.
Post by: nddons on August 28, 2021, 07:12:10 AM
I’m damn sure not getting a shot every six months. I got my first two, I’m done. Unless something profound convinces me otherwise.I swear sometimes I think we’re related. Same here on all points.
So are we now going to have to start persecuting people who only have 2 shots and won’t get boosters? How about crucifying people that only wear one mask and won’t put on two?
Where does it end? This is a witch hunt, dehumanizing and hating a group of people YOU created by your lying and manipulating and obfuscating. That is why I ever doubted the vaccine in the first place - only because the “experts” and the government and media deliberately were less than forthright. It created the mistrust.
Post by: Lucifer on August 28, 2021, 07:38:13 AM
I’m damn sure not getting a shot every six months. I got my first two, I’m done. Unless something profound convinces me otherwise.
So are we now going to have to start persecuting people who only have 2 shots and won’t get boosters? How about crucifying people that only wear one mask and won’t put on two?
Where does it end? This is a witch hunt, dehumanizing and hating a group of people YOU created by your lying and manipulating and obfuscating. That is why I ever doubted the vaccine in the first place - only because the “experts” and the government and media deliberately were less than forthright. It created the mistrust.
Instead of thoughtful encouragement, open dialogue and truthfulness, the communist left resort to mandates, orders, shaming and outright public humiliation to achieve a goal they themselves are ignorant of.
They created this mess. People with reasonable thought and actual experts in the field have the right to question it, and to demand accountability.
Post by: Username on August 28, 2021, 07:53:55 AM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 28, 2021, 07:56:45 AM
Did I miss the part where they said "EVERY" six months? Sounds to me that adding "every" is like adding "man made" to climate change. Or like NOT saying "illegal" before alien (when the alien is here illegally).
But even if it was 6 months, I would prefer to do that than get COVID. I have seen the results up close and personal, and I'd rather have the vaccine.
Or every five months. Definitely see “every” in there.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/biden-and-fauci-discuss-covid-19-booster-shots-every-5-months/
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 28, 2021, 07:58:10 AM
The wise and wonderful democrat governor of the great state of Illinois has decreed that I must either have the vaccine or subject myself to weekly testing at my own expense, or testing more often if a new variant shows up. Never mind that I live in another state and all my classes are distance classes. Nope... no exceptions. I have had the vaccine, but wow.
Hope you have blanks on your passport for boosters. Hell, why don’t they just mandate implanted chips?
Post by: Username on August 28, 2021, 08:22:23 AM
Hope you have blanks on your passport for boosters. Hell, why don’t they just mandate implanted chips?That would make things a lot easier. My "passport" has two blank lines labeled "other" under the lines marked Jab1 and Jab2. I don't know what I'll do if I have to get more than two boosters. Separate cards, I guess. An implanted chip that is scanned and updated would make things so much easier. Or just a tattoo bar code that they scan and check the central vaccination database.
Post by: Username on August 28, 2021, 08:23:24 AM
Or every five months. Definitely see “every” in there.Until profits and donations are down. Then every three months.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/biden-and-fauci-discuss-covid-19-booster-shots-every-5-months/
Post by: Little Joe on August 28, 2021, 10:38:23 AM
Or every five months. Definitely see “every” in there.Well, that certainly says "every". So I was wrong.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/27/biden-and-fauci-discuss-covid-19-booster-shots-every-5-months/
But after seeing what my 55 yr old brother is going through, I would prefer monthly Covid shots if that would help.
Post by: Lucifer on August 28, 2021, 11:09:48 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 28, 2021, 11:33:30 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 28, 2021, 11:37:45 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 28, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 28, 2021, 01:45:49 PM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 28, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 28, 2021, 04:45:25 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 29, 2021, 05:54:13 AM
He went through 5 days of hell, ending up in the ER. His heart was racing, he was physically sick. Before the shot he was just fine.
He told me no more. No second shot, no booster. He’s now afraid of what he may have done to his body.
His job? He said they can have it. He’s already lined up another job with an employer who’s not forcing this idiocy on people.
Post by: jb1842 on August 29, 2021, 08:18:58 AM
Had a long conversation with a family member last night, mid thirties. His employer forced him to get the vaccine or else, and he did. First shot of Phizer.
He went through 5 days of hell, ending up in the ER. His heart was racing, he was physically sick. Before the shot he was just fine.
He told me no more. No second shot, no booster. He’s now afraid of what he may have done to his body.
His job? He said they can have it. He’s already lined up another job with an employer who’s not forcing this idiocy on people.
Wonder if he can go for workers comp for this?
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 29, 2021, 08:53:30 PM
I was just looking at the number of national cases reported each day by John Hopkins. Many places that depict their numbers on a histogram often include a 7 day running average line. While that helps see trends, such an average is asymmetrical. If you want to know the average at point P using 7 nearby data points, you’d add up the values at P-3, P-2, P-1, P+0, P+1, P+2, and P+3, then divide by 7. But the usual 7 day average adds up P-6, P-5, … P-1, and P and then divides by 7.
Why does this numerical trivia matter? Because with the asymmetrical 7 day average a peak or trough shows up 3 days later than it really happened. But the symmetric computation shows the peak or trough the first day it occurs. So here is what I came up with for symmetric 7-day totals centered around each day in question (I didn’t bother dividing the totals by 7 since that is a constant division that doesn’t change the location of a minimum or maximum.) The day of the week is followed by the number of cases that day and the last number, where it can be computed, is the total for that day plus 3 days prior and 3 days after.
29 Sunday 39733
28 Saturday 100953
27 Friday 190049
26 Thursday 184274 1093219
25 Wednesday 176426 1096078
24 Tuesday 153296 1093103
23 Monday 248488 1087938
22 Sunday 42592 1053648
21 Saturday 97978
20 Friday 184884
19 Thursday 149984
So a peak for national cases may have occurred on or around Wednesday the 25th. It is possible the case count for Monday the 23 was sufficiently aberrant that it caused a false peak. However, the Sunday to Sunday numbers support a peak has happened or will within days even with an aberrant case count.
Edited to add: That should also mean deaths peak in 2 to 3 weeks.
Post by: bflynn on August 30, 2021, 02:42:51 AM
Many less populated states still have rising numbers and the virus hasn’t spread much beyond the south. Looking at individual states in the south, every one except Florida is still going up.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 30, 2021, 03:56:31 AM
(TL;DR: The number of cases nationally may have peaked and is now declining.)
one reason to use a 7 day average (of any kind) is to account for the significant drop in numbers reported for Saturday and Sunday.
One possible problem with assuming so-called covid deaths will decline with a decline in case counts is that the case counts don't indicate severity. Wouldn't a better predictor of so-called covid deaths be a count of severe cases of covid illness?
Post by: Rush on August 30, 2021, 04:43:28 AM
One possible problem with assuming so-called covid deaths will decline with a decline in case counts is that the case counts don't indicate severity. Wouldn't a better predictor of so-called covid deaths be a count of severe cases of covid illness?
THIS! That’s bothered me all along. They have changed the definition of “case”. Before covid “case” was only a case when it was symptomatic. If you had no symptoms you were not counted. One reason for this is you weren’t tested, influenza for example. During flu season, nobody required negative flu tests to travel or come to work. But with covid people with no symptoms are tested and then called a “case” if the test is positive. This doesn’t account for false positives and even when detecting people actually carrying the virus it inflates the true number of cases as defined like we normally do.
That they are silent on this fact makes me mistrust all the numbers. Asymptomatic cases are meaningless. What I’m interested in are how many people are actually sick. And they are keeping that from us.
Post by: Anthony on August 30, 2021, 04:45:59 AM
one reason to use a 7 day average (of any kind) is to account for the significant drop in numbers reported for Saturday and Sunday.
One possible problem with assuming so-called covid deaths will decline with a decline in case counts is that the case counts don't indicate severity. Wouldn't a better predictor of so-called covid deaths be a count of severe cases of covid illness?
How about a count of non ELDERLY. non already immune compromised, sick deaths. Because I guarantee 99% are.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 30, 2021, 05:13:02 AM
THIS! That’s bothered me all along. They have changed the definition of “case”. Before covid “case” was only a case when it was symptomatic. If you had no symptoms you were not counted. ...
interesting. Here in maskachusetts, a case was always anyone who tested positive, symptomatic or not.
Post by: Little Joe on August 30, 2021, 05:25:10 AM
interesting. Here in maskachusetts, a case was always anyone who tested positive, symptomatic or not.That’s the only definition I have ever heard too.
Post by: Lucifer on August 30, 2021, 05:35:19 AM
Post by: Lucifer on August 30, 2021, 05:41:56 AM
Quote
Foreign substances found in another Moderna lot
Foreign substances have been found in another lot of the Moderna coronavirus vaccine. They were spotted at a large vaccination center in the southern prefecture of Okinawa on Saturday.
A pharmacist spotted black substances in a syringe with the vaccination dose.
Later, another syringe and a vial were found to be containing black substances. And pink substances were found in a different syringe filled with vaccine.
Okinawa Prefecture halted vaccination at the site and it remains suspended on Sunday.
On Thursday, Japan's ministry of health suspended the use of doses from three lots as foreign substances had been found in unopened vials of the Moderna vaccine at multiple vaccination sites.
The three lots were made at the same factory during the same period. Foreign substances were found in one of the lots and none were found in two others.
Takeda Pharmaceutical, which handles distribution in Japan, will analyze the situation and look into the possibility of contamination during the production process.
It will decide on what responses should be taken in coordination with the ministry.
Post by: Rush on August 30, 2021, 05:49:08 AM
interesting. Here in maskachusetts, a case was always anyone who tested positive, symptomatic or not.
That’s what the CDC is using. But it’s totally misleading in the context of what was normal before, for this type of disease (contagious respiratory illness such as colds and flu). It’s a bit different with other diseases such as food borne bacteria or hepatitis. In those cases you test asymptomatic people to try to detect sources of outbreaks. But those are localized with a high rate of possible asymptomatic transmission (think Typhoid Mary). But highly transmissible respiratory illnesses are normally spread by symptomatic people and become ubiquitous (everywhere) so that we don’t typically go testing people who have no symptoms.
Covid behaves much more like cold or flu than like a food borne illness or one spread through contact with feces, yet for some inexplicable reason we are applying the draconian response only appropriate for those types of illnesses to covid.
Post by: Lucifer on August 30, 2021, 05:50:09 AM
Post by: Username on August 30, 2021, 06:19:09 AM
Quote
Foreign substances have been found in another lot of the Moderna coronavirus vaccine. They were spotted at a large vaccination center in the southern prefecture of Okinawa on Saturday.You''re not supposed to see the nanochips.
A pharmacist spotted black substances in a syringe with the vaccination dose.
Later, another syringe and a vial were found to be containing black substances. And pink substances were found in a different syringe filled with vaccine.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 30, 2021, 06:37:04 AM
You''re not supposed to see the nanochips.
The pink stuff must be the nanosalsa.
Post by: nddons on August 30, 2021, 12:12:20 PM
The pink stuff must be the nanosalsa.Post of the day, Becky!
Post by: Lucifer on August 30, 2021, 01:03:25 PM
Post by: Lucifer on August 30, 2021, 01:06:37 PM
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on August 30, 2021, 05:13:47 PM
Case is meaningless in the way it's been used throughout the scamdemic. It's only purpose is to drive fear.
Because the media and their DNC masters fostered the idea that "case" = impending death.
Post by: Anthony on August 31, 2021, 02:48:28 AM
Because the media and their DNC masters fostered the idea that "case" = impending death.
Exactly. The number of cases is meaningless as others here have said repeatedly. The Delta variant is now their new club of submission and tyranny. Can the Echo or Epsilon variant be far behind?
Post by: Lucifer on August 31, 2021, 12:11:01 PM
(https://endpts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Marks-announcement.jpg)
Post by: Lucifer on August 31, 2021, 12:50:08 PM
Post by: nddons on August 31, 2021, 12:53:08 PM
https://endpts.com/breaking-in-a-major-blow-to-vaccine-efforts-senior-fda-leaders-stepping-down-report/Hmmm. Which Pharma hired them?
(https://endpts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Marks-announcement.jpg)
Post by: Number7 on August 31, 2021, 01:17:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5KViMw1.jpg)
Standard communist democrat playbook
ALL Hypocrisy.
All the time.
Post by: Anthony on September 01, 2021, 05:51:55 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 01, 2021, 06:01:14 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 01, 2021, 06:03:07 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 01, 2021, 06:11:11 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 01, 2021, 06:14:36 AM
Post by: Rush on September 01, 2021, 06:17:44 AM
The following are true to the best of our knowledge:
1. If you get the vaccine, you can still get, and transmit, the virus, but you are likely to have a much milder case.
2. If you are unvaccinated and get covid, you are likely to have more severe symptoms.
The above statements are true, no? Anybody dispute them? Hasn’t the CDC told us those things?
So why has my husband’s company said that if you have a family member that gets covid, you must stay home for two weeks if you are unvaccinated but you may come to work if you are vaccinated? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? If you are unvaccinated and get covid you are likely to have symptoms and not feel like working. If you are vaccinated you are more likely to have little or no symptoms, not even know you have it, and therefore give it to people at work.
Therefore if unvaccinated and feel fine, come to work, you’re unlikely to have the virus. If vaccinated and feel fine you could well be spreading the virus, so you should stay home for two weeks even if you don’t feel sick. Seems to me that’s how it should be.
Post by: Anthony on September 01, 2021, 06:23:38 AM
Help me understand the logic here.
The following are true to the best of our knowledge:
1. If you get the vaccine, you can still get, and transmit, the virus, but you are likely to have a much milder case.
2. If you are unvaccinated and get covid, you are likely to have more severe symptoms.
The above statements are true, no? Anybody dispute them? Hasn’t the CDC told us those things?
So why has my husband’s company said that if you have a family member that gets covid, you must stay home for two weeks if you are unvaccinated but you may come to work if you are vaccinated? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? If you are unvaccinated and get covid you are likely to have symptoms and not feel like working. If you are vaccinated you are more likely to have little or no symptoms, not even know you have it, and therefore give it to people at work.
Therefore if unvaccinated and feel fine, come to work, you’re unlikely to have the virus. If vaccinated and feel fine you could well be spreading the virus, so you should stay home for two weeks even if you don’t feel sick. Seems to me that’s how it should be.
You can't apply logic and rational thought to policy purely based on emotion, flawed opinions and OPTICS (public perception).
Post by: Lucifer on September 01, 2021, 06:26:53 AM
Help me understand the logic here.
The following are true to the best of our knowledge:
1. If you get the vaccine, you can still get, and transmit, the virus, but you are likely to have a much milder case.
2. If you are unvaccinated and get covid, you are likely to have more severe symptoms.
The above statements are true, no? Anybody dispute them? Hasn’t the CDC told us those things?
So why has my husband’s company said that if you have a family member that gets covid, you must stay home for two weeks if you are unvaccinated but you may come to work if you are vaccinated? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? If you are unvaccinated and get covid you are likely to have symptoms and not feel like working. If you are vaccinated you are more likely to have little or no symptoms, not even know you have it, and therefore give it to people at work.
Therefore if unvaccinated and feel fine, come to work, you’re unlikely to have the virus. If vaccinated and feel fine you could well be spreading the virus, so you should stay home for two weeks even if you don’t feel sick. Seems to me that’s how it should be.
It's "the science". Just follow the fuckin' science!
Post by: Rush on September 01, 2021, 06:28:22 AM
It's "the science". Just follow the fuckin' science!
Translate: “Follow the science,” means: “Do what I say without question like an obedient lemming.”
Post by: Lucifer on September 01, 2021, 06:31:39 AM
Translate: “Follow the science,” means: “Do what I say without question like an obedient lemming.”
Yes comrade!
Post by: Lucifer on September 01, 2021, 06:41:33 AM
Post by: Steingar on September 01, 2021, 07:00:30 AM
Help me understand the logic here.
The following are true to the best of our knowledge:
1. If you get the vaccine, you can still get, and transmit, the virus, but you are likely to have a much milder case.
2. If you are unvaccinated and get covid, you are likely to have more severe symptoms.
The above statements are true, no? Anybody dispute them? Hasn’t the CDC told us those things?
So why has my husband’s company said that if you have a family member that gets covid, you must stay home for two weeks if you are unvaccinated but you may come to work if you are vaccinated? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? If you are unvaccinated and get covid you are likely to have symptoms and not feel like working. If you are vaccinated you are more likely to have little or no symptoms, not even know you have it, and therefore give it to people at work.
Therefore if unvaccinated and feel fine, come to work, you’re unlikely to have the virus. If vaccinated and feel fine you could well be spreading the virus, so you should stay home for two weeks even if you don’t feel sick. Seems to me that’s how it should be.
I can't speak for your spouse's employers. They're likely quite intelligent and very good at what they do, but possibly unversed in medical science. If you become knowingly exposed to someone with COVID you should quarantine yourself (anyone know the etymology of the word "quarantine?) until you can be certain you are not infected. It doesn't matter if you've been vaccinated or not, since the virus, especially its highly infectious delta variant, can get past the vaccine. The problem with COVID is you can pass along lots of virus before you ever feel any symptoms. You can likely get a PCR test a few days later to see if you've been infected, I would. A negative result would be enough for me to end my quarantine.
The vaccine makes it harder for you to be infected, but the virus has a propensity for getting around that. The vaccine will keep you out of the hospital and out of the morgue. The vast majority of cases right now are among the unvaccinated.
Post by: Rush on September 01, 2021, 07:09:54 AM
https://uncoverdc.com/2021/08/30/the-mrna-vaccine-clinical-trial-on-humans/
This is the part that pisses me off: “other alternative therapies have been around for just as long as the vaccines but have been heavily censored by government agencies“
I hold them directly responsible for many covid deaths.
Post by: bflynn on September 01, 2021, 07:19:40 AM
Help me understand the logic here.
The following are true to the best of our knowledge:
1. If you get the vaccine, you can still get, and transmit, the virus, but you are likely to have a much milder case.
2. If you are unvaccinated and get covid, you are likely to have more severe symptoms.
The above statements are true, no? Anybody dispute them? Hasn’t the CDC told us those things?
So why has my husband’s company said that if you have a family member that gets covid, you must stay home for two weeks if you are unvaccinated but you may come to work if you are vaccinated? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? If you are unvaccinated and get covid you are likely to have symptoms and not feel like working. If you are vaccinated you are more likely to have little or no symptoms, not even know you have it, and therefore give it to people at work.
Therefore if unvaccinated and feel fine, come to work, you’re unlikely to have the virus. If vaccinated and feel fine you could well be spreading the virus, so you should stay home for two weeks even if you don’t feel sick. Seems to me that’s how it should be.
The transmission window is much smaller for vaccinated people. If they wanted to be scientific about it, they might have said stay home for 3 days instead of 2 weeks. It sounds like their policy has not caught up to the realization that it's possible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus, even though it's less likely,
Company logic has always been "if you're sick, stay home. Don't spread it to everyone here".
Twisting it backwards doesn't work.
Of course, I'm still of the opinion that if you've made the decision to expose yourself to the virus, then your choice is made and everything should be done to support your free movement around, so that you can catch it and get it over with regardless of the outcome.
Post by: Lucifer on September 01, 2021, 07:48:44 AM
Quote
Since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, the American people have been told to “follow the science.” Yet for a year and a half, they’ve heard contradicting messages from self-appointed prophets of “the science” like Dr. Anthony Fauci and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
We learned that politicians who claimed their decisions were science-driven often ignored scientific findings that didn’t fit certain political narratives. We discovered that scientists are fallible human beings, and some would let personal interests and political views cloud their judgment.
Is science itself one of the victims of the COVID-19 pandemic? I asked Dr. Scott Atlas at the 13th annual Freedom Conference hosted by the Steamboat Institute, a Colorado-based nonprofit organization. Formerly a professor and chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center, Atlas is now a senior fellow in health policy at the Hoover Institution.
Atlas has been under constant attacks by the left and the corporate media since he served as a special adviser to former President Trump and a member of the White House coronavirus task force from August to November 2020. The New York Times and the Washington Post ran hit pieces on Atlas, questioning his qualifications despite his distinguished career and scholarship.
Google-owned YouTube also removed a 50-minute video of Atlas’s interview with the Hoover Institute. Twitter took down his tweet that questioned the effectiveness of masks.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 01, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
especially its highly infectious delta variant
"highly infectioius"???
what's the R0 for the delta variant?
Post by: nddons on September 01, 2021, 10:27:27 AM
Help me understand the logic here.Hey Missy, these concepts are thought up by municipal or health directors with a bachelors or masters degree in public policy, with no medical training whatsoever. You shall not question them! Now get back in line.
The following are true to the best of our knowledge:
1. If you get the vaccine, you can still get, and transmit, the virus, but you are likely to have a much milder case.
2. If you are unvaccinated and get covid, you are likely to have more severe symptoms.
The above statements are true, no? Anybody dispute them? Hasn’t the CDC told us those things?
So why has my husband’s company said that if you have a family member that gets covid, you must stay home for two weeks if you are unvaccinated but you may come to work if you are vaccinated? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? If you are unvaccinated and get covid you are likely to have symptoms and not feel like working. If you are vaccinated you are more likely to have little or no symptoms, not even know you have it, and therefore give it to people at work.
Therefore if unvaccinated and feel fine, come to work, you’re unlikely to have the virus. If vaccinated and feel fine you could well be spreading the virus, so you should stay home for two weeks even if you don’t feel sick. Seems to me that’s how it should be.
Post by: Lucifer on September 01, 2021, 12:34:52 PM
Post by: Number7 on September 01, 2021, 12:55:02 PM
https://thefederalist.com/2021/09/01/high-profile-fda-officials-resign-over-bidens-rushed-push-for-booster-shots/
Post by: bflynn on September 01, 2021, 03:58:59 PM
"highly infectioius"???
what's the R0 for the delta variant?
About 2-3, on par with Ebola and Tuberculosis. But if someone is scoffing at science, who cares.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 01, 2021, 04:43:49 PM
About 2-3, on par with Ebola and Tuberculosis. But if someone is scoffing at science, who cares.
anyone want to guess the R0 for the measles?
I would love to see a quantitative definition of "highly infectious" rather than the one designed to incite fear and panic.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 01, 2021, 05:37:38 PM
But what about the infectious diseases for which we currently have vaccines? What is their R0?
Smallpox has an R0 of 3
Polio has an R0 of 4-6
Mumps has an R0 of 10-12
Chickenpox has an R0 of 10-12
Pertussis has an R0 of 15-17
Measles has an R0 of 16-18
Post by: Lucifer on September 02, 2021, 01:56:54 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 02, 2021, 08:33:05 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 03, 2021, 09:08:51 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 04, 2021, 06:50:54 AM
Quote
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (WJHG/WECP) - Florida will start issuing $5,000 fines to businesses, schools, and government agencies that require people to show proof of a COVID-19 vaccination.
Governor Ron DeSantis signed a bill earlier this year that banned vaccine passports.
The fines will start on Sept. 16 if people are asked to show proof of a vaccine.
Violators will have the chance to appeal but, once the fine is finalized, they will have 30 days to pay.
Post by: Rush on September 04, 2021, 08:00:18 AM
https://www.wistv.com/2021/09/02/florida-issue-5000-fines-entities-asking-proof-covid-vaccination/
I just watched a Styxhexenhammer666 video on the 2024 election. He says if Trump doesn’t run then DeSantis looks really good and I agree completely. This sort of thing is one reason why. If neither of them run Styx likes Rand Paul. I could live with him too, any of those three would be great. Meanwhile there’s no one on the dem side that looks good at all. I still think there is still a risk of cheating again.
Post by: Rush on September 04, 2021, 12:39:42 PM
You can go here.......https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/treatments/how-do-i-get-covid-19-medication/ (https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/treatments/how-do-i-get-covid-19-medication/)
Have any of you used this place yet to get anything?
Post by: Lucifer on September 04, 2021, 12:41:19 PM
Have any of you used this place yet to get anything?
I know several who has. I haven’t heard any problems.
Post by: Rush on September 04, 2021, 02:18:09 PM
I know several who has. I haven’t heard any problems.
Here is another place that I think despite the name similarity is different:
https://frontlinemds.com//
My neighbor’s friend successfully got meds from that one and my neighbor consulted and ordered from her but they have not arrived. She contacted them and was told they are overwhelmed. This is the Houston doctor that made a video early on about hydroxychloroquine. I’m sure she is legit but I’m sure she is flooded with business. But I don’t think this site is affiliated with the first one.
Post by: Lucifer on September 04, 2021, 03:51:24 PM
Here is another place that I think despite the name similarity is different:
https://frontlinemds.com//
My neighbor’s friend successfully got meds from that one and my neighbor consulted and ordered from her but they have not arrived. She contacted them and was told they are overwhelmed. This is the Houston doctor that made a video early on about hydroxychloroquine. I’m sure she is legit but I’m sure she is flooded with business. But I don’t think this site is affiliated with the first one.
The majority of doctors that are willing to practice medicine, which includes treating Covid are being overwhelmed right now.
Pick one and get on the list and get your prescriptions.
Post by: Lucifer on September 04, 2021, 03:53:02 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 04, 2021, 03:54:05 PM
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/robert-kennedy-ade-is-why-mrna-injections-have-never-been-approved/
Post by: Lucifer on September 05, 2021, 05:25:02 PM
Post by: Rush on September 05, 2021, 06:29:21 PM
I’m old enough to remember this: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html
So, last September, when Trump was in charge, CNN thought rushing to vaccinate everyone was irresponsible and sure to result in catastrophe. Today, mainstream media censors any doubt about taking the vaccine.
Post by: Anthony on September 06, 2021, 03:56:48 AM
So, last September, when Trump was in charge, CNN thought rushing to vaccinate everyone was irresponsible and sure to result in catastrophe. Today, mainstream media censors any doubt about taking the vaccine.
Not only that but blatant propaganda from government, corporations, education, MEDIA, etc on how absolutely safe and effective the vaccines are. It is irresponsible and wrong.
Post by: Rush on September 06, 2021, 04:50:33 AM
Not only that but blatant propaganda from government, corporations, education, MEDIA, etc on how absolutely safe and effective the vaccines are. It is irresponsible and wrong.
CNN’s total flip flop on the vaccine based solely on who is in the White House is all the evidence you need that covid is completely political.
Fear porn! Where was all this vaccine panic a year ago?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/31/opinions/how-to-convince-people-to-get-vaccinated-drexler/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 06, 2021, 05:22:38 AM
So, last September, when Trump was in charge, CNN thought rushing to vaccinate everyone was irresponsible and sure to result in catastrophe. Today, mainstream media censors any doubt about taking the vaccine.
No one saw that coming...
Post by: Little Joe on September 06, 2021, 11:21:46 AM
No one saw that coming...I certainly didn't. I thought Trump would still be President and CNN would still be bitching.
Post by: Rush on September 06, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Post by: bflynn on September 06, 2021, 01:39:46 PM
Post by: Rush on September 06, 2021, 01:49:27 PM
I’m curious why the leftists are still behind promoting vaccines. After all, Trump recently promoted them, didn’t he? Oh what is a leftist to do?
The cognitive dissonance in a leftist’s mind must be hell to live with.
Post by: Lucifer on September 06, 2021, 02:32:08 PM
The cognitive dissonance in a leftist’s mind must be hell to live with.
You mean, for instance, while Trump was President, how the left kept demanding we get involved in more wars? You know, the party of love and peace?
They sure hated not having any new wars. ::)
Post by: Lucifer on September 06, 2021, 04:51:51 PM
Post by: bflynn on September 06, 2021, 07:56:06 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Az30sAb.jpg)
Not really. I’m annoyed at the government using you as an excuse. If you say the vaccines do nothing (strong evidence that’s wrong), then no big deal in getting the shot, right? Then the government loses their power.
Post by: Anthony on September 07, 2021, 01:47:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Az30sAb.jpg)
The Leftist narrative in the Media and from Democrats is that the plethora of unvaccinated are causing an overwhelming level of the virus for the vaccinated which is IDIOTIC, but the useful idiots are buying it.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 07, 2021, 04:01:12 AM
If you say the vaccines do nothing (strong evidence that’s wrong), then no big deal in getting the shot, right? Then the government loses their power.
1) I believe you are missing the point of the meme
2) I believe you are mischaracterizing claims. I don't believe anyone is claiming that vaccines do nothing.
Post by: Rush on September 07, 2021, 04:07:27 AM
That being said, I’m sure there is a subset, probably a large one, that irrationally fears getting covid even if they are vaccinated. The meme applies to them exactly.
Post by: Lucifer on September 07, 2021, 05:27:40 AM
(https://citizenfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/ivermectin.png)
Post by: Lucifer on September 07, 2021, 05:44:42 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 07, 2021, 10:42:36 AM
Post by: Rush on September 07, 2021, 10:48:03 AM
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/pay-no-attention-to-the-spike-proteins
Dave Watson’s comment is spot on. Neither the disease nor the vaccine is our biggest problem.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 07, 2021, 10:51:31 AM
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/pay-no-attention-to-the-spike-proteins
"the spike protein found on the surface of Covid-19 virus cells causes changes to cells in the small blood vessels of the heart"
Is proofreading a lost art?
Post by: nddons on September 07, 2021, 11:18:09 AM
"the spike protein found on the surface of Covid-19 virus cells causes changes to cells in the small blood vessels of the heart"Yes it is. It’s easier today to change the language than to change someone’s improper use of the language.
Is proofreading a lost art?
Don’t believe me? Tell me in what world could “they” now be deemed singular.
Post by: Rush on September 07, 2021, 12:04:35 PM
"the spike protein found on the surface of Covid-19 virus cells causes changes to cells in the small blood vessels of the heart"
Is proofreading a lost art?
I think they are implying the vaccine can cause the changes but not the spike protein while it’s attached to the rest of the virus.
“The novel coronavirus itself (Sars-Cov-2) cannot attack these CD147s and damage the pericyte cells, potentially leading to clotting and heart attacks.
But free-floating spike protein - like the spike protein the vaccines make our bodies produce - can.“
Post by: Lucifer on September 09, 2021, 11:35:43 AM
(https://i2.wp.com/uncoverdc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/VAERS.jpg?resize=696%2C748&ssl=1)
Post by: Username on September 09, 2021, 12:11:07 PM
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 09, 2021, 01:57:43 PM
Guess they maybe should have tested it a little more?
How many were tested in Phase 3 trials? Would you have said that was too few?
Post by: Username on September 09, 2021, 02:41:08 PM
How many were tested in Phase 3 trials? Would you have said that was too few?43,000 were in the test. YES that was too few. If there were nearly 600,000 adverse reactions and 13,000 hospitalizations due to the COVID vaccine compared to 800,000 adverse reactions and 13,000 hospitalizations for ALL vaccines since 1990, YES there are too many adverse reactions and hospitalizations. All for something that gives 95% protection to something that has a 5% chance of making you sick. YES there should have been more testing to develop something safer.
Post by: jb1842 on September 09, 2021, 03:12:04 PM
Post by: Rush on September 09, 2021, 03:27:02 PM
And if most hospitals are like mine, they will blow off your chest pains 3 days after I got the shot as undetermined causes and it won't get reported to VAERS.
Are you feeling better?
Post by: jb1842 on September 09, 2021, 03:58:56 PM
Are you feeling better?
Yes. Thanks. Still have a small tight spot in chest. Might follow up with my regular dr still.
Post by: Number7 on September 09, 2021, 05:17:14 PM
How many were tested in Phase 3 trials? Would you have said that was too few?
that is a terribly biased question, designed to make believe proof of something that exists only in your head.
WHEN there are THAT MANY adverse reactions and there were THAT FEW test subjects, THEN someone fucked up badly.
And NO. I don't give a shit if that hurts your feelings.
Post by: Steingar on September 10, 2021, 08:00:34 AM
that is a terribly biased question, designed to make believe proof of something that exists only in your head.
WHEN there are THAT MANY adverse reactions and there were THAT FEW test subjects, THEN someone fucked up badly.
And NO. I don't give a shit if that hurts your feelings.
Were adverse vaccine events as common as you infer the hospitals would be full of them. Instead they'e full of COVID patients (at least the ICUs are).
The mRNA vaccines are a medical miracle and are perfectly safe. According to you guys, if someone is vaccinated and then hit by a cement truck, the vaccine causes you to be hit by a cement truck.
Post by: Lucifer on September 10, 2021, 08:04:14 AM
Were adverse vaccine events as common as you infer the hospitals would be full of them. Instead they'e full of COVID patients (at least the ICUs are).
The mRNA vaccines are a medical miracle and are perfectly safe. According to you guys, if someone is vaccinated and then hit by a cement truck, the vaccine causes you to be hit by a cement truck.
How many drinks have you had already this morning?
Post by: nddons on September 10, 2021, 08:36:47 AM
Were adverse vaccine events as common as you infer the hospitals would be full of them. Instead they'e full of COVID patients (at least the ICUs are).For someone who purports to be a scientist, saying ANY medication, vaccine or procedure is “perfectly safe” demonstrates either ignorance or a bias towards politics, not science.
The mRNA vaccines are a medical miracle and are perfectly safe. According to you guys, if someone is vaccinated and then hit by a cement truck, the vaccine causes you to be hit by a cement truck.
Even a measly 81mg low dose aspirin is not “perfectly safe” for everyone.
You sound more like Jim Jones than a scientist.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3o6ZtlhJn6zXifuf7i/giphy.gif)
Post by: Mr Pou on September 10, 2021, 08:42:39 AM
How many drinks have you had already this morning?
He's now teaching night school, so plenty of time to sober up.
Or not...
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 10, 2021, 08:57:17 AM
Were adverse vaccine events as common as you infer the hospitals would be full of them. Instead they'e full of COVID patients (at least the ICUs are).
oh yeah, with about 9000 beds in maskachusetts, there are about 600 covid-19 patients.
For ol' POS, maths is hard
Post by: Steingar on September 10, 2021, 11:40:06 AM
How many drinks have you had already this morning?
I haven't had a drink of alcohol in about 3 weeks. Not trying to do the sober thing, not worried about it. Just trying to lose some weight. Alcohol has calories.
Post by: Lucifer on September 10, 2021, 11:42:21 AM
I haven't had a drink of alcohol in about 3 weeks. Not trying to do the sober thing, not worried about it. Just trying to lose some weight. Alcohol has calories.
Most alcoholics will lie and deny drinking when called out. Your drinking is quite obvious.
Post by: Username on September 10, 2021, 02:31:00 PM
I haven't had a drink of alcohol in about 3 weeks. Not trying to do the sober thing, not worried about it. Just trying to lose some weight. Alcohol has calories.So it's drugs then?
Post by: Number7 on September 10, 2021, 04:35:08 PM
So it's drugs then?
Nope,
He needs psychiatric help.
Post by: Steingar on September 10, 2021, 06:57:46 PM
Most alcoholics will lie and deny drinking when called out. Your drinking is quite obvious.
Tell all the lies you like. I've come to expect nothing less.
Post by: Lucifer on September 10, 2021, 08:25:19 PM
Tell all the lies you like. I've come to expect nothing less.
Spoken like a true drunk.
Post by: Steingar on September 11, 2021, 10:37:28 AM
Spoken like a true drunk.Spoken like a forked tongue Devil. Keep the lies coming, it seems to be what you do best. I doubt you'd know the truth if it slapped you upside the head.
Like I said, haven't had a drink in a few weeks. Not a big pride thing, just a fact.
Post by: Lucifer on September 11, 2021, 12:34:56 PM
Spoken like a forked tongue Devil. Keep the lies coming, it seems to be what you do best. I doubt you'd know the truth if it slapped you upside the head.
Like I said, haven't had a drink in a few weeks. Not a big pride thing, just a fact.
Alcoholics live in denial. Even when shitfaced drunk they’ll deny they have been drinking.
Your defensiveness is giving you away. You’ll probably have to have a drink after reading this. You’ll justify it.
Post by: Steingar on September 11, 2021, 12:46:13 PM
Alcoholics live in denial. Even when shitfaced drunk they’ll deny they have been drinking.
Your defensiveness is giving you away. You’ll probably have to have a drink after reading this. You’ll justify it.
Sorry but no. Got lots of booze in the cupboard, it stays until hit my target weight. I even forgot to deglaze my aromatics this morning, since I usually use borboun.
Post by: Lucifer on September 11, 2021, 01:06:18 PM
Sorry but no. Got lots of booze in the cupboard, it stays until hit my target weight. I even forgot to deglaze my aromatics this morning, since I usually use borboun.
The only thing you’ve been doing is deglazing your liver.
Post by: Number7 on September 11, 2021, 03:34:41 PM
The only thing you’ve been doing is deglazing your liver.
I NEVER thought I'd say this but, you are even worse than ME! 8)
Post by: Lucifer on September 11, 2021, 03:35:31 PM
I NEVER thought I'd say this but, you are even worse than ME! 8)
I take that as a compliment? ;)
Post by: Lucifer on September 13, 2021, 08:45:41 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 16, 2021, 01:41:37 PM
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on September 16, 2021, 02:28:35 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 16, 2021, 02:31:02 PM
I often say that modern politicians are literally just pissing away our legacy of freedom which was so hard won. (pardon the French)
No need my friend. We speak clearly here, and without fear of moderation.
And yes, I agree with you. ;)
Post by: Lucifer on September 16, 2021, 02:39:19 PM
Quote
Arizona sued the federal government on Tuesday over President Joe Biden’s sweeping order to mandate vaccinations for federal employees and contractors as well as fine businesses that don’t enforce strict COVID testing for unvaccinated workers.
Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich’s lawsuit is the first of many lawsuits expected to hit the Biden administration over Biden’s plan to combat COVID-19.
“The federal government cannot force people to get the COVID-19 vaccine. The Biden Administration is once again flouting our laws and precedents to push their radical agenda,” Brnovich said in a statement. “There can be no serious or scientific discussion about containing the spread of COVID-19 that doesn’t begin at our southern border.”
“Under our Constitution, the President is not a king who can exercise this sort of unbridled power unilaterally. And even George III wouldn’t have dreamed that he could enact such sweeping policies by royal decree alone,” Brnovich added.
Brnovich’s lawsuit argues “Biden’s vaccine mandate violates the Equal Protection Clause by favoring migrants that have crossed into the country illegally over legal U.S. citizens. The Biden Administration allows migrants to decline the vaccine, protecting their freedom and bodily autonomy more than American citizens,” according to a press release from the Arizona attorney general’s office.
“Even President Biden’s own Chief of Staff Ronald Klain acknowledged the federal government lacks the legal authority to impose a COVID-19 mandate but is doing so anyway with this ‘ultimate workaround,’” the release continued, referring to Klain’s promotion of a tweet from NBC News anchor Stephanie Ruhle. Ruhle’s tweet said, “OSHA doing this vaxx (sic) mandate as an emergency workplace safety rule is the ultimate workaround for the federal govt to require vaccinations.”
Biden’s plan, announced last week, sparked a swift backlash from GOP governors who promised to fight the mandate and take the Biden administration to court. Over a dozen governors put out statements condemning Biden’s action.
On top of stiff legal challenges, Biden’s plan may also face hurdles from within his own administration. The Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA), tasked with enforcing the order on any business with at least 100 employees, is reportedly understaffed and underfunded to take on such a massive enforcement effort. As The Daily Wire reports:
President Joe Biden recently announced that he has directed the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) to draft a rule requiring that businesses with more than 100 employees compel their workers to receive a COVID-19 vaccine or force them to submit to weekly COVID-19 testing, but reports now indicate that not only employers, but OSHA itself, may have issues implementing Biden’s plan.
“Before the first legal challenges against the mandate roll in, the Biden administration faces the more immediate conundrum of whether the chronically resource-strapped Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is up to the task of enforcing it,” Business Insider noted Tuesday.
“It’s reeling from deep staffing cuts under the Trump administration, and its fines are relatively low and often fought out in long court battles,” experts told the outlet.
Post by: Lucifer on September 16, 2021, 02:55:47 PM
Quote
September 16, 2021
Vax mandate 'work-around' using OSHA not nearly as clever as they thought
By Thomas Lifson
The plan to force Americans into receiving an experimental drug that acts on their RNA faced some big obstacles, including Joe Biden's promise that he wouldn't do it; decades of Democrats' rhetoric over "my body, my choice"; and the CDC's admission that it lacks the power to do so.
But Biden's chief of staff, Ron Klain , seems to think of himself as a pretty smart fellow, a guy who gets things done. Maybe that's why he exulted over the approach the administration is taking to force Americans to inject the experimental gene therapy into their bodies. He retweeted MSNBC's Stephanie Ruehl, saying, "OSHA doing this vaxx mandate as an emergency workplace safety rule is the ultimate work-around for the Federal govt to require vaccinations."
"Work-around" has such a nice bureaucratic insider ring to it. It bespeaks a command of the intricacies of government, the details of rules, regulations, and precedents, and a mastery of the incredibly complex organization.
But it turns out that "working around" by piling responsibilities on OSHA (The Occupational Safety and Health Administration), part of the Department of Labor, overlooked a small problem: OSHA is incapable of handling the responsibility. From Politico:
"I think this redefines 'ideas are simple, execution is hard,'" said attorney Michael Lotito, who represents businesses for law firm Littler Mendelson.
"What we have right now is chaos," Lotito added, "because of the unintended consequences of making such an announcement where there is no clarity with respect to a gargantuan number of questions that have been left open."
The open questions include such issues as who will pay for the weekly COVID tests for people working for private companies with more than 100 employees, who have the testing option if they decline the vaccine. These tests are not cheap, and employees may have to take 50 or more of them every year.
"It's millions of dollars a year to any size company. I've seen companies do it before Biden issued his order and it's incredibly burdensome and time consuming and may not even guarantee health and safety in the way that mandating vaccines would," Schaefer [an employment lawyer at Loeb and Loeb] said.
But even more fundamentally, OSHA is, by the standards of the federal government, a tiny agency. Even worse, when President Trump streamlined the regulatory burden on employers, resulting in the economic boom of his presidency, OSHA's headcount declined, as departing workers were not replaced. There simply aren't enough bureaucrats to go around, given the enormous new tasks. Business Insider, which seems to think this is a tragedy, writes:
efore the first legal challenges against the mandate roll in, the Biden administration faces the more immediate conundrum of whether the chronically resource-strapped Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is up to the task of enforcing it.
The agency's challenge comes at a particularly inopportune time: It's reeling from deep staffing cuts under the Trump administration, and its fines are relatively low and often fought out in long court battles, two experts told Insider.
Bryan Shepardson of Reuters adds:
With more than 80 million workers covered, "OSHA won't be able to police every employer," said A. Scott Hecker, a labor lawyer in Washington at Seyfarth Shaw. OSHA plans to publish an Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) to enact the new requirements, the White House said Friday. That measure, which is used to accelerate urgent rules, has only been used 10 times in OSHA's 50-year history. Courts have invalidated or halted four of those rules and partially blocked one, according to the Congressional Research Service. (snip)
OSHA now has an estimated 800 safety and compliance inspectors to cover the more than 100,000 private-sector companies affected by the new rule. (snip)
In addition, the agency has largely failed to hold employers accountable for unsafe conditions during the pandemic, Reuters reported earlier this year, identifying dozens of workplaces where employees complained of slipshod pandemic safety. Regulators never inspected the facilities or, in some cases, took months to do so.
Two-thirds of employers cited by OSHA for COVID-19 safety violations had not paid fines, and more than half appealed the OSHA citations.
There are many avenues for legal challenges to the mandate, including the question of whether an illness with a 99%+ recovery rate for anyone of working age constitutes an "emergency" sufficient to cancel the "right" to "privacy" that the SCOTUS proclaimed resided in the penumbra of the Constitution.
Find the right federal judge(s), and the mandate can be tied up for years in the courts.
As the lawyer quoted above said, "ideas are simple, execution is hard."
___________________________
Post by: Lucifer on September 16, 2021, 03:30:28 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 17, 2021, 10:25:38 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 18, 2021, 06:14:00 AM
Here’s excerpts from the 8 hour hearing. It would be nice to get either transcripts or a copy of the full hearing.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/bombshell-testimony-from-doctors-at-fda-vaccine-booster-hearing/
Post by: Number7 on September 18, 2021, 07:30:21 AM
All one Needs to do is ask your lyingass, commie, democrat congressman this:
IF COVID is so deadly, AND vaccination is so imperative, THEN WHY are illegal aliens, members of congress, the senate and their staff, as well as the judiciary ALL exempt from the COVID regulations?
The answer tells you everything anyone needs to know.
You. All. Being. Played.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 18, 2021, 08:21:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFph7-6t34M
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 18, 2021, 08:24:32 AM
The FDA has decided against booster shots citing insufficient data.
Here’s excerpts from the 8 hour hearing. It would be nice to get either transcripts or a copy of the full hearing.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/bombshell-testimony-from-doctors-at-fda-vaccine-booster-hearing/
More information. FDA committee did vote to approve boosters for 65+ and "high-risk" cases.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/17/fda-panel-begins-voting-on-pfizers-covid-booster-doses-rejecting-shots-for-general-public.html
Post by: Rush on September 18, 2021, 10:48:49 AM
The FDA has decided against booster shots citing insufficient data.
Here’s excerpts from the 8 hour hearing. It would be nice to get either transcripts or a copy of the full hearing.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/bombshell-testimony-from-doctors-at-fda-vaccine-booster-hearing/
Did they change the cartoon at the top of that? There was one with a guy wearing a mask and a bunch of syringes stuck in him with the title “39 years of boosters” or something. I can’t find it now. I saw it somewhere this morning. Was it in some other link?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 20, 2021, 05:24:13 PM
https://gab.com/ProjectVeritas/posts/106966718884408908
Post by: nddons on September 20, 2021, 05:56:53 PM
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/09/let_me_splain_it_for_you.html
Post by: Lucifer on September 20, 2021, 06:57:59 PM
This is a must read.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/09/let_me_splain_it_for_you.html
He is exactly right. Pope Tony and his Branch Covidians are keeping this mess going.
Gee, wonder why?? ::)
Post by: bflynn on September 21, 2021, 02:47:13 AM
He is exactly right. Pope Tony and his Branch Covidians are keeping this mess going.
Gee, wonder why?? ::)
He is exactly wrong, not that anyone here really cares. Viruses mutate when they replicate. They replicate most strongly in the unvaccinated.
“ Virologist Friedemann Weber from Justus Liebig University in the western German city of Giessen told DW that it was not the vaccinated who gave rise to new escape mutations and variants, but the unvaccinated: "It was infected people who provided a breeding ground for the new variant and immune escape of the virus."
A glance at India, Brazil, and South Africa shows this, he said. According to Weber, this is where the mutations that are now widespread arose and where the percentage of people vaccinated was very low.
…
The claim that vaccines are responsible for mutations is shown to be at least misleading if you look at the countries with high ratios of vaccinated people: If vaccinations massively increased the likelihood of a virus mutating, then new virus mutations would already be appearing in countries like Israel or the UK, where many people have already received their jabs, Peggy Riese says.”
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-did-covid-vaccines-cause-the-delta-variant/a-58242263
Oh, screw it, you want to remain ignorant.
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2021, 04:26:44 AM
Oh, screw it, you want to remain ignorant.
The show of ignorance here is all on you.
Post by: bflynn on September 21, 2021, 04:51:55 AM
The show of ignorance here is all on you.
Oooh, what a burn, LOL. Your suck at this game is legion.
The scientific facts rebut the claims of vaccinated people being the source of mutations. But you ignorantly ignore what is going on.
That's fine, this is the US. You can ignore reality if you wish. But you cannot ignore the impacts of ignoring reality.
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2021, 05:09:53 AM
Oooh, what a burn, LOL. Your suck at this game is legion.
The scientific facts rebut the claims of vaccinated people being the source of mutations. But you ignorantly ignore what is going on.
That's fine, this is the US. You can ignore reality if you wish. But you cannot ignore the impacts of ignoring reality.
I can ignore a moron like you faux intellect boy. You constantly beclown yourself on here and other forums.
Every village has it's idiot. You fit the description.
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2021, 05:26:46 AM
Post by: Rush on September 21, 2021, 05:55:10 AM
He is exactly wrong, not that anyone here really cares. Viruses mutate when they replicate. They replicate most strongly in the unvaccinated.
“ Virologist Friedemann Weber from Justus Liebig University in the western German city of Giessen told DW that it was not the vaccinated who gave rise to new escape mutations and variants, but the unvaccinated: "It was infected people who provided a breeding ground for the new variant and immune escape of the virus."
A glance at India, Brazil, and South Africa shows this, he said. According to Weber, this is where the mutations that are now widespread arose and where the percentage of people vaccinated was very low.
…
The claim that vaccines are responsible for mutations is shown to be at least misleading if you look at the countries with high ratios of vaccinated people: If vaccinations massively increased the likelihood of a virus mutating, then new virus mutations would already be appearing in countries like Israel or the UK, where many people have already received their jabs, Peggy Riese says.”
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-did-covid-vaccines-cause-the-delta-variant/a-58242263
Oh, screw it, you want to remain ignorant.
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to write up all the illogic of that “fact check” article. For one thing, it spends the first half telling you that viruses DO mutate to avoid the immune system, including if you’re immune from the vaccine. Then it attempts to destroy that whole point by saying “but in this case it’s not a real immune escape”. Huh? I was following your sound logic all the way up to that statement.
Then she says, “the immune escape isn’t strong enough to make the vaccines useless”. Okay… how does that disprove that the vaccine encourages the virus to mutate in such a way as to more easily escape? Of course it’s not useless, it still reduces symptoms. But nobody has shown that symptom reduction reduces transmissibility, viral load, or mutation rate.
Then they go on to “prove” their point by talking about all the countries that have a low vaccination rate and a high variant rate. But they ignore the scientific principle of confounding factors. I take that back, they don’t ignore it, they actually state it! But somehow they think their wording is strengthening their argument when in fact it is disproving it:
“But this is not the case at all. The virus mutations occur precisely in those countries where there is not yet a high (vaccination) rate, and a large number of people are meeting together within a confined area," she told DW.”
There you have it: The country also has tons of people gathering close together, thereby giving the virus many times more opportunity to mutate and spread, and totally confounding your assertion that it’s the vaccination rate causing it. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. There are other countries where the reverse is true, a high vaccination rate and a high number of variant cases. At this point in time we simply do not know the whole truth, and it is irresponsible and unscientific to pretend otherwise.
The article is total doublespeak. They disprove their own premise and then claim their illogical opinion is settled science.
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2021, 05:56:22 AM
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to write up all the illogic of that “fact check” article. For one thing, it spends the first half telling you that viruses DO mutate to avoid the immune system, including if you’re immune from the vaccine. Then it attempts to destroy that whole point by saying “but in this case it’s not a real immune escape”. Huh? I was following your sound logic all the way up to that statement.
Then she says, “the immune escape isn’t strong enough to make the vaccines useless”. Okay… how does that disprove that the vaccine encourages the virus to mutate in such a way as to more easily escape? Of course it’s not useless, it still reduces symptoms. But nobody has shown that symptom reduction reduces transmissibility, viral load, or mutation rate.
Then they go on to “prove” their point by talking about all the countries that have a low vaccination rate and a high variant rate. But they ignore the scientific principle of confounding factors. I take that back, they don’t ignore it, they actually state it! But somehow they think their wording is strengthening their argument when in fact it is disproving it:
“But this is not the case at all. The virus mutations occur precisely in those countries where there is not yet a high (vaccination) rate, and a large number of people are meeting together within a confined area," she told DW.”
There you have it: The country also has tons of people gathering close together, thereby giving the virus many times more opportunity to mutate and spread, and totally confounding your assertion that it’s the vaccination rate causing it. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. There are other countries where the reverse is true, a high vaccination rate and a high number of variant cases. At this point in time we simply do not know the whole truth, and it is irresponsible and unscientific to pretend otherwise.
The article is total doublespeak. They disprove their own premise and then claim their illogical opinion is settled science.
Absolutely.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 21, 2021, 06:39:48 AM
https://rumble.com/vmrfv4-the-warning-signs-of-antibody-dependent-enhancement.html
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 21, 2021, 06:58:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfZgq_yqvbE
Post by: bflynn on September 21, 2021, 07:09:37 AM
Addresses ADE and the vaccine, start at 5:00 if you don’t have time for the whole thing.
https://rumble.com/vmrfv4-the-warning-signs-of-antibody-dependent-enhancement.html
unable to watch video right now. Is there a transcript?
Post by: bflynn on September 21, 2021, 07:14:01 AM
The article is total doublespeak. They disprove their own premise and then claim their illogical opinion is settled science.
It's a balanced article. It acknowledges that both sides make valid points.
But addressing the source of mutations, they are coming from countries which have a lot of unvaccinated people, not the ones which are highly vaccinated. That's a pretty strong rebuttal of vaccinated people being the source of mutations.
I don't see contradiction in that article. I would like it if it quoted sources, but that isn't a standard from anyone.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 21, 2021, 07:22:05 AM
Okay… how does that disprove that the vaccine encourages the virus to mutate in such a way as to more easily escape?
The premise of your question is flawed, a virus isn't "encouraged" by anything.
If a virus strand can replicate, a particular instance of a replication results in a mutation or it doesn't.
In the case of the nRNA vaccines, the vaccine reduces (eliminates?) the ability of virus strands to replicate. No replication, no mutation. Lower number of replications, fewer mutations.
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2021, 07:35:20 AM
In the case of the nRNA vaccines, the vaccine reduces (eliminates?) the ability of virus strands to replicate. No replication, no mutation. Lower number of replications, fewer mutations.
Just like in Israel, right?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 21, 2021, 07:54:29 AM
Just like in Israel, right?
question for the reader/student: Is vaccinations that only difference between now and the peak infections a year ago (and earlier this year)?
Post by: nddons on September 21, 2021, 07:59:58 AM
He is exactly wrong, not that anyone here really cares. Viruses mutate when they replicate. They replicate most strongly in the unvaccinated.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210921/638867b6dbd9b9b3383aee3235ed2514.jpg)
“ Virologist Friedemann Weber from Justus Liebig University in the western German city of Giessen told DW that it was not the vaccinated who gave rise to new escape mutations and variants, but the unvaccinated: "It was infected people who provided a breeding ground for the new variant and immune escape of the virus."
A glance at India, Brazil, and South Africa shows this, he said. According to Weber, this is where the mutations that are now widespread arose and where the percentage of people vaccinated was very low.
…
The claim that vaccines are responsible for mutations is shown to be at least misleading if you look at the countries with high ratios of vaccinated people: If vaccinations massively increased the likelihood of a virus mutating, then new virus mutations would already be appearing in countries like Israel or the UK, where many people have already received their jabs, Peggy Riese says.”
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-did-covid-vaccines-cause-the-delta-variant/a-58242263
Oh, screw it, you want to remain ignorant.
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2021, 08:19:53 AM
Absolutely.
Anytime anybody claims that the science is settled, you already know they are lying out their pathetic, little ass.
If it wasn't so perfectly pathetic, it would be criminal.
Post by: bflynn on September 21, 2021, 10:25:05 AM
Anytime anybody claims that the science is settled, you already know they are lying out their pathetic, little ass.
And anytime someone uses this idea to cast doubt on science that they don't want to be true, you can be sure that deep down they're a scared little boy who lashes out at thing they don't like.
Let's see if that's true... :)
Post by: Steingar on September 21, 2021, 10:36:38 AM
Anytime anybody claims that the science is settled, you already know they are lying out their pathetic, little ass.
If it wasn't so perfectly pathetic, it would be criminal.
You guys bitch about anthropogenic climate change, and I get it. The Climate guys are leaning on models and so forth, and that's a very abstract thing easy to argue against, easier when the arguments are fueled by the energy sector. That's fine, it isn't really where I wanted to go with this.
Virology is a really, really different animal. It depends far more on lab science than anything else. The way we learn is less abstract and far more understandable. I can tell you a few facts against which only the most die-hard conspiracy theorist would argue:
COVID19 is a respiratory virus that can cause a really severe disease that can be debilitating or fatal. By the way, COVID doesn't care whether you're Conservative or Liberal, though it does discriminate young from old.
COVID19 is spread from person to person through aerosol droplets
Vaccines against COVID lower the chances that you'll be infected with COVID and virtually eliminate the chance that you'll be disabled or killed.
The vast majority of those now being victimized by COVID19 are unvaccinated.
That's it. I would add that the vaccines are as safe as any vaccines that have ever been used on anyone. The bad thing is vaccines are medicine, and medicines can have side effects. The safest and most efficacious drug I know is aspirin, and my own spouse won't take it.
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2021, 11:07:35 AM
Post by: Rush on September 21, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
The premise of your question is flawed, a virus isn't "encouraged" by anything.
There you go again accusing me of anthropomorphizing the virus. No, I don’t think the virus has conscious awareness. Evolution on the gene level doesn’t work that way, as far as we know.
Quote
If a virus strand can replicate, a particular instance of a replication results in a mutation or it doesn't.
In the case of the nRNA vaccines, the vaccine reduces (eliminates?) the ability of virus strands to replicate. No replication, no mutation. Lower number of replications, fewer mutations.
The vaccine gives you a statistically lower chance of getting the virus and a good chance for milder symptoms if you do get it. It does not stop the virus from replicating or mutating in you. And if it does replicate, mutations can happen and if it does mutate, a mutation that tends to allow it to escape your immune response to the original spike protein will be more likely to prevail.
It seems to make more sense to me that a variant that can escape the original spike protein antibody more likely arose in a case where the person had the antibody initially than in a case where they did not. Because in the cases where they did not have it to begin with, (an unvaccinated sick person) the virus was being opposed by antibodies to more of its parts than just that spike protein.
Post by: Rush on September 21, 2021, 11:16:40 AM
You guys bitch about anthropogenic climate change, and I get it. The Climate guys are leaning on models and so forth, and that's a very abstract thing easy to argue against, easier when the arguments are fueled by the energy sector. That's fine, it isn't really where I wanted to go with this.
Virology is a really, really different animal. It depends far more on lab science than anything else. The way we learn is less abstract and far more understandable. I can tell you a few facts against which only the most die-hard conspiracy theorist would argue:
COVID19 is a respiratory virus that can cause a really severe disease that can be debilitating or fatal. By the way, COVID doesn't care whether you're Conservative or Liberal, though it does discriminate young from old.
COVID19 is spread from person to person through aerosol droplets
Vaccines against COVID lower the chances that you'll be infected with COVID and virtually eliminate the chance that you'll be disabled or killed.
The vast majority of those now being victimized by COVID19 are unvaccinated.
That's it. I would add that the vaccines are as safe as any vaccines that have ever been used on anyone. The bad thing is vaccines are medicine, and medicines can have side effects. The safest and most efficacious drug I know is aspirin, and my own spouse won't take it.
I don’t disagree with any of this. But if the bold part is true, then why are some of the vaccinated people so hysterically and unreasonably terrified of the unvaccinated?
Edit: Added words in red to avoid offending vaccinated people who are not terrified of the unvaccinated.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 21, 2021, 11:20:27 AM
You guys bitch about anthropogenic climate change, and I get it. The Climate guys are leaning on models and so forth, and that's a very abstract thing easy to argue against, easier when the arguments are fueled by the energy sector. That's fine, it isn't really where I wanted to go with this.
Virology is a really, really different animal. It depends far more on lab science than anything else. The way we learn is less abstract and far more understandable. I can tell you a few facts against which only the most die-hard conspiracy theorist would argue:
COVID19 is a respiratory virus that can cause a really severe disease that can be debilitating or fatal. By the way, COVID doesn't care whether you're Conservative or Liberal, though it does discriminate young from old.
COVID19 is spread from person to person through aerosol droplets
Vaccines against COVID lower the chances that you'll be infected with COVID and virtually eliminate the chance that you'll be disabled or killed.
The vast majority of those now being victimized by COVID19 are unvaccinated.
That's it. I would add that the vaccines are as safe as any vaccines that have ever been used on anyone. The bad thing is vaccines are medicine, and medicines can have side effects. The safest and most efficacious drug I know is aspirin, and my own spouse won't take it.
It's NOT A VACCINE. You should send your diploma back to whatever degree mill gave it to you.
Post by: bflynn on September 21, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
It's NOT A VACCINE.
Nothing else, so you argue semantics? A difference that has little importance.
Post by: Steingar on September 21, 2021, 11:46:07 AM
I don’t disagree with any of this. But if the bold part is true, then why are the vaccinated people so terrified of the unvaccinated?
Because the virus is so bloody effective that it can get past the vaccine to set up an infection. No one in their right mind wants a COVID infection.
And there is something I forgot to mention. Some are claiming the vaccine is going to make the virus mutate to a more deadly form. To some small degree there is a grain of truth to this. If the biggest roadblock to the virus' replication is a vaccine, the virus will evolve beyond it. That said, were everyone vaccinated this wouldn't be a worry. But because there's so much propagation, sooner or later the virus will get past the vaccine. We're in a race to get rid of it before it does this, and we're losing.
The good news in all this is whatever the virus' does to evolve, we're pretty smart cookies ourselves and we know more about the virus than when it first showed up. The one good thing about the mRNA vaccines is they can be nearly effortlessly tailored toward a new viral protein or even a different one. Moreover, since the active ingredient in the mRNA vaccine is RNA, my hope is a new vaccine would fit under the rubric of the old one, since its chemical composition is nearly identical. My hope is we can spool up mRNA vaccines quickly indeed.
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
And anytime someone uses this idea to cast doubt on science that they don't want to be true, you can be sure that deep down they're a scared little boy who lashes out at thing they don't like.
Let's see if that's true... :)
You know, you have a gift for being a dick. Maybe you ought to examine your pathetic need to pretend to be middle right, when you worship the left.
The reverse of my statement is not applicable, except as your ego requires you to cast doubt without facts.
steingar can't help himself. He spends his life stealing other people's words and thoughts, then pretending them to be his,
You have the gift of independent thought, but seem to need to push the left narrative constantly.
Now hurry up and get all pathetically angry and butt hurt because your ego is hurt, then start telling me how much smarter you think you are...
Post by: bflynn on September 21, 2021, 11:55:07 AM
Let's see if that's true... :)
You know, you have a gift for being a dick. Maybe you ought to examine your pathetic need to pretend to be middle right, when you worship the left.
The reverse of my statement is not applicable, except as your ego requires you to cast doubt without facts.
steingar can't help himself. He spends his life stealing other people's words and thoughts, then pretending them to be his,
You have the gift of independent thought, but seem to need to push the left narrative constantly.
Now hurry up and get all pathetically angry and butt hurt because your ego is hurt, then start telling me how much smarter you think you are...
and Ipso Facto - it is proven.
It's a bit like striking out the pitcher.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 21, 2021, 12:00:16 PM
There you go again accusing me of anthropomorphizing the virus. No, I don’t think the virus has conscious awareness. Evolution on the gene level doesn’t work that way, as far as we know.
if you don't want to be "accused" of anthropomorphizing the virus, then perhap you shouldn't use phrases that anthropomorphize the virus.
Post by: Rush on September 21, 2021, 01:04:34 PM
Because the virus is so bloody effective that it can get past the vaccine to set up an infection. No one in their right mind wants a COVID infection.
And there is something I forgot to mention. Some are claiming the vaccine is going to make the virus mutate to a more deadly form. To some small degree there is a grain of truth to this. If the biggest roadblock to the virus' replication is a vaccine, the virus will evolve beyond it. That said, were everyone vaccinated this wouldn't be a worry. But because there's so much propagation, sooner or later the virus will get past the vaccine. We're in a race to get rid of it before it does this, and we're losing.
The good news in all this is whatever the virus' does to evolve, we're pretty smart cookies ourselves and we know more about the virus than when it first showed up. The one good thing about the mRNA vaccines is they can be nearly effortlessly tailored toward a new viral protein or even a different one. Moreover, since the active ingredient in the mRNA vaccine is RNA, my hope is a new vaccine would fit under the rubric of the old one, since its chemical composition is nearly identical. My hope is we can spool up mRNA vaccines quickly indeed.
THAT, the bold part, is the whole problem! It is never going away. It’s not smallpox. It’s not polio. It doesn’t behave like them and the vaccine doesn’t do the job those vaccines do. It’s much more like the common cold. It is in fact a coronavirus. Hopefully it will continue to evolve to be less deadly.
Let’s just accept that, quit with all the masks and lockdowns and get back to living. You know what? If the control freaks would stop with the authoritarian mandates maybe most of the anti-vaxers would get vaccinated. You’re not helping at all by shaming them and strong arming them.
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2021, 01:28:37 PM
and Ipso Facto - it is proven.
It's a bit like striking out the pitcher.
Funny thing about you is how truly poor you are at this insult thing.
It is painful to read your weak, angry retorts because someone pointed out that you are not really intelligent.
At least mikey embarrasses himself thinking he's being brilliant.
You're just boring.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 21, 2021, 01:36:20 PM
You’re not helping at all by shaming them ....
if I can pick a nit... they are attempting to shame them. I don't think unvaccinated people digging in their heels are actually feeling any shame (nor should they).
of course, I haven't surveyed anyone to see if they felt shamed into being vaccinated...
Post by: Little Joe on September 21, 2021, 01:46:57 PM
I don’t disagree with any of this. But if the bold part is true, then why are the vaccinated people so terrified of the unvaccinated?Because they are mostly the ones that are spreading the disease and prompting the tyrants in charge to shut down the economy, force us to wear masks and demand that we social creatures "social distance".
It doesn't have to be that way, but it is.
Post by: Little Joe on September 21, 2021, 01:48:53 PM
It's NOT A VACCINE. You should send your diploma back to whatever degree mill gave it to you.I keep hearing that, but I don't hear an explanation of the difference. Yes, the COVID vaccines work differently than traditional vaccines, but that doesn't change the fact that they are still vaccines.
Post by: Little Joe on September 21, 2021, 01:51:01 PM
You know, you have a gift for being a dick.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha,
Now I have to buy a new keyboard.
Post by: Lucifer on September 21, 2021, 02:05:08 PM
Because they are mostly the ones that are spreading the disease and prompting the tyrants in charge to shut down the economy, force us to wear masks and demand that we social creatures "social distance".
It doesn't have to be that way, but it is.
That's such bullshit. And you honestly believe that?
Unreal.
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2021, 02:07:21 PM
Because they are mostly the ones that are spreading the disease and prompting the tyrants in charge to shut down the economy, force us to wear masks and demand that we social creatures "social distance".
It doesn't have to be that way, but it is.
Utter horseshit, spread by intellectually lazy faux liberals, desperate to feel superior because they've never done anything remotely special.
Post by: Username on September 21, 2021, 02:10:01 PM
Because they are mostly the ones that are spreading the disease and prompting the tyrants in charge to shut down the economy, force us to wear masks and demand that we social creatures "social distance".Let's do a thought-experiment. Let's assume that everyone on Earth gets two vaccine shots plus a booster. Do you think that those in charge will allow us to resume our normal lives? That we can restart the economy, stop wearing masks, and stop the social distancing? The science shows that there may be breakthrough infections since those who are vaccinated can still carry and spread the virus. I believe that they will do everything they can to maintain control over us under the name of "but it's for the children!" Until a significant number of us stand up and say ENOUGH!
It doesn't have to be that way, but it is.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 21, 2021, 02:16:11 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/fda-approved-gout-drug-shows-promise-in-fighting-covid-19
This will be derided and squashed
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 21, 2021, 02:25:58 PM
I don’t disagree with any of this. But if the bold part is true, then why are the vaccinated people so terrified of the unvaccinated?
Since you are vaccinated you should be able to tell us why you are terrified of the unvaccinated.
I’m vaccinated and I’m terrified of unvaccinated bugs crawling into my ear and eating my brains while I sleep. Bugs are people too, you know.
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2021, 02:34:05 PM
Since you are vaccinated you should be able to tell us why you are terrified of the unvaccinated.
Are you so desperate for attention that you have to stoop to stupid people questions to get some?
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 21, 2021, 02:41:37 PM
What an utterly idiotic response.
Did you borrow stupid questions from flynn?
She posted a stupid self-incriminating generalization. How does it not deserve my response?
Post by: bflynn on September 21, 2021, 04:15:29 PM
She posted a stupid self-incriminating generalization. How does it not deserve my response?
It does.
N 0.7 is just on tilt because he identified himself as out of control. He’s been spun up since this afternoon. I’ll bet that even with me identifying it, his ego and rashness won’t let him lay off. He is 1/10 of a man.
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2021, 05:07:42 PM
It does.
N 0.7 is just on tilt because he identified himself as out of control. He’s been spun up since this afternoon. I’ll bet that even with me identifying it, his ego and rashness won’t let him lay off. He is 1/10 of a man.
You are so full of shit, and furious every time one of us points out that you are not the smartest person in the room.
Pathetic, really.
Post by: Number7 on September 21, 2021, 05:14:46 PM
She posted a stupid self-incriminating generalization. How does it not deserve my response?
Your drivel never changes and no matter how hard you try to sell yourself as a moderate voice of caution and consideration, your bullshit stupidity always floats to the surface like shit on a toilet.
Rush actually has a point. Your stupid shit was just grandstanding trying to make yourself see,pm bright and hip.
In the end it's just more stupid shit, from a closet progressive, pretending to be a libertarian.
Post by: Rush on September 21, 2021, 05:44:17 PM
She posted a stupid self-incriminating generalization. How does it not deserve my response?
I thought you were kidding. I’m not terrified of the unvaccinated at all. But I know some who are. There’s one guy I work with, remotely of course, who is vaccinated but so freaked out about still getting sick he will barely leave his house. He has no desire for things to get back to normal. He doesn’t care about the economy because he’s still getting his paycheck. He wears a mask on the rare occasions he must go out and thinks everyone else should too. They are reopening the office but he has announced that he will refuse to come in. Even though the desks are spread apart with plexiglass between them and it will be on a rotating 50% capacity with masks and vaccinations required. He still refuses to go in. The boss isn’t going to force anyone.
He doesn’t want things to get back to normal. He is irrationally terrified of the virus itself. I think there are a LOT like him.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 21, 2021, 05:50:52 PM
...
He doesn’t want things to get back to normal. He is irrationally terrified of the virus itself. I think there are a LOT like him.
Germophobes like that should wear full bio level 4 suits, respirators. They should use airlocks at home so that contaminated clothes don't get in the house.
and let the rest of us live.
(I'm sooooo glad I retired in 2017... I got to enjoy retirement for 3 years before this covid crap... and now I don't need to worry about being forced to vaccinate in order to keep my job. I feel sorry for people still working)
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 21, 2021, 07:06:50 PM
I thought you were kidding. I’m not terrified of the unvaccinated at all. But I know some who are. There’s one guy I work with, remotely of course, who is vaccinated but so freaked out about still getting sick he will barely leave his house. He has no desire for things to get back to normal. He doesn’t care about the economy because he’s still getting his paycheck. He wears a mask on the rare occasions he must go out and thinks everyone else should too. They are reopening the office but he has announced that he will refuse to come in. Even though the desks are spread apart with plexiglass between them and it will be on a rotating 50% capacity with masks and vaccinations required. He still refuses to go in. The boss isn’t going to force anyone.
He doesn’t want things to get back to normal. He is irrationally terrified of the virus itself. I think there are a LOT like him.
I never thought you were afraid of the unvaccinated since you were so reluctant to get vaccinated yourself for very legitimate reasons. I’m vaccinated and have no fear of anyone - in fact I had no fear when there was no vaccines. I just thought you used an unreasonable rhetorical generalization that deserved to be mocked. It was uncharacteristic of you.
It does seem there is a subset of vaccinated that aren’t sure the vaccine works, and so remain in fear. Perhaps like people who play lotteries, who believe in the slim chance they’ll be the big winner, that in the case of disease, they’ll be the big loser.
Others don’t seem terribly consistent in their concerns. For example, I just returned from a wedding in Minneapolis where the couple asked guests to get tested before coming and to wear masks at the ceremony. I asked if it was Ok if we could skip the test (due to logistical issues) and just come masked and vaccinated? They said sure. At the ceremony the guests were masked - the bride, groom, and wedding officials were not. Masks came off everyone during the after-ceremony cocktail hour and dinner. I have to wonder what the point was of any of their requests.
(Side note: the father of the groom couldn’t make it to the son’s wedding because he is one of Guinea’s diplomats and the country just suffered a military coup, making it impossible for him to travel.)
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 21, 2021, 07:07:36 PM
Post by: Username on September 21, 2021, 08:08:20 PM
(Side note: the father of the groom couldn’t make it to the son’s wedding because he is one of Guinea’s diplomats and the country just suffered a military coup, making it impossible for him to travel.)Lucky Guineans.
Post by: Rush on September 22, 2021, 04:46:10 AM
I never thought you were afraid of the unvaccinated since you were so reluctant to get vaccinated yourself for very legitimate reasons. I’m vaccinated and have no fear of anyone - in fact I had no fear when there was no vaccines. I just thought you used an unreasonable rhetorical generalization that deserved to be mocked. It was uncharacteristic of you.
It does seem there is a subset of vaccinated that aren’t sure the vaccine works, and so remain in fear. Perhaps like people who play lotteries, who believe in the slim chance they’ll be the big winner, that in the case of disease, they’ll be the big loser.
Others don’t seem terribly consistent in their concerns. For example, I just returned from a wedding in Minneapolis where the couple asked guests to get tested before coming and to wear masks at the ceremony. I asked if it was Ok if we could skip the test (due to logistical issues) and just come masked and vaccinated? They said sure. At the ceremony the guests were masked - the bride, groom, and wedding officials were not. Masks came off everyone during the after-ceremony cocktail hour and dinner. I have to wonder what the point was of any of their requests.
(Side note: the father of the groom couldn’t make it to the son’s wedding because he is one of Guinea’s diplomats and the country just suffered a military coup, making it impossible for him to travel.)
Alright, somewhere in one of these threads Little Joe had to explain that when he used terms such as “always” and “everyone” he wasn’t meaning it literally, but referring to a loud subset. I believe he said he would endeavor not to do that so much in the future. You’re right, I usually try not to, and you caught one of the times I generalized. I have edited the offensive post. I hope it is to your satisfaction.
Post by: Steingar on September 22, 2021, 06:34:19 AM
Another cheap, safe covid treatment:
https://www.foxnews.com/health/fda-approved-gout-drug-shows-promise-in-fighting-covid-19
This will be derided and squashed
If I'm reading the article correctly it's idiocy. It is possible the drug has activity against RSV, but that doesn't mean that it will have any against COVID. That said, a lot of kids suffer from RSV, so if there's a good treatment that's a good thing. I think there are some secondary RSV infections in COVID patients, so perhaps useful there as well. Again, I think. An MD I'm not.
Post by: Anthony on September 22, 2021, 06:36:18 AM
Alright, somewhere in one of these threads Little Joe had to explain that when he used terms such as “always” and “everyone” he wasn’t meaning it literally, but referring to a loud subset. I believe he said he would endeavor not to do that so much in the future. You’re right, I usually try not to, and you caught one of the times I generalized. I have edited the offensive post. I hope it is to your satisfaction.
I have to catch myself and not use extremes also. Sometimes I miss one too. I always fuck up.
Post by: bflynn on September 22, 2021, 08:59:02 AM
I have to catch myself and not use extremes also. Sometimes I miss one too. I always fuck up.
I see what you did there...
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 22, 2021, 09:23:54 AM
Alright, somewhere in one of these threads Little Joe had to explain that when he used terms such as “always” and “everyone” he wasn’t meaning it literally, but referring to a loud subset. I believe he said he would endeavor not to do that so much in the future. You’re right, I usually try not to, and you caught one of the times I generalized. I have edited the offensive post. I hope it is to your satisfaction.
Just see that it doesn’t happen again.
;)
Post by: jb1842 on September 22, 2021, 09:26:10 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2021, 09:34:23 AM
Mother in law had the shot months ago. Today she tests positive for covid. Why are we pushing all these shots when it doesn't work?
We have to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated by requiring the unvaccinated to become vaccinated against their will.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 22, 2021, 09:36:53 AM
Mother in law had the shot months ago. Today she tests positive for covid. Why are we pushing all these shots when it doesn't work?
I got vaccinated several months. I have not tested positive for covid.
sample size of one.
Post by: Steingar on September 22, 2021, 09:38:35 AM
Mother in law had the shot months ago. Today she tests positive for covid. Why are we pushing all these shots when it doesn't work?
It will keep her out of the hospital and out of the morgue, and should lesson the severity of the disease. A vaccine is like a raincoat. If its drizzling the raincoat keeps you dry. Doesn't work as well in a storm. Same with the vaccine. Lot of exposure and you can get it. Again, you get less disease than with a naive immune system.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 22, 2021, 09:51:30 AM
I got vaccinated several months. I have not tested positive for covid.Our house is 50%, both vaccinated, one break thru case.
sample size of one.
Post by: jb1842 on September 22, 2021, 09:52:15 AM
It will keep her out of the hospital and out of the morgue, and should lesson the severity of the disease. A vaccine is like a raincoat. If its drizzling the raincoat keeps you dry. Doesn't work as well in a storm. Same with the vaccine. Lot of exposure and you can get it. Again, you get less disease than with a naive immune system.
I hope so, but she's got some health issues. She was supposed to have surgery tomorrow, which is why she got tested. But more worried about father in law. He's had the shot but has worse health issues. And my wife is there and is now scrambling to get a test and get her 2nd shot. And we were all at a wedding on Saturday. At least it was an outdoor wedding.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 22, 2021, 10:08:37 AM
I got vaccinated several months. I have not tested positive for covid.
sample size of one.
I've not been jabbed with the pre-treatment forever. I have not tested positive for covid.
In fact, I've not been tested at all.
What does this prove?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 22, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
I've not been jabbed with the pre-treatment forever. I have not tested positive for covid.
In fact, I've not been tested at all.
What does this prove?
a question better asked of jb1842
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 22, 2021, 10:10:16 AM
It will keep her out of the hospital and out of the morgue, and should lesson the severity of the disease. A vaccine is like a raincoat. If its drizzling the raincoat keeps you dry. Doesn't work as well in a storm. Same with the vaccine. Lot of exposure and you can get it. Again, you get less disease than with a naive immune system.
What is the fatality rate for those admitted and subsequently died conclusively FROM covid?
And it's not a vaccine.
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2021, 10:13:20 AM
I've not been jabbed with the pre-treatment forever. I have not tested positive for covid.
In fact, I've not been tested at all.
What does this prove?
You’re smarter than most? You clearly have thought out the pros and cons and made a decision based upon your personal beliefs and needs?
Oh, and you are not a sheeple. ;)
Post by: Rush on September 22, 2021, 11:19:58 AM
I hope so, but she's got some health issues. She was supposed to have surgery tomorrow, which is why she got tested. But more worried about father in law. He's had the shot but has worse health issues. And my wife is there and is now scrambling to get a test and get her 2nd shot. And we were all at a wedding on Saturday. At least it was an outdoor wedding.
Oh so she has no symptoms? Just tested because of surgery? In that case it might be a false positive.
Post by: Rush on September 22, 2021, 11:27:25 AM
I've not been jabbed with the pre-treatment forever. I have not tested positive for covid.
In fact, I've not been tested at all.
What does this prove?
I’ve been vaccinated. On a couple of occasions I have imagined I have a slight sore throat and runny nose. Maybe it was covid. I didn’t get tested. I did take some quercetin and zinc, and I’m taking lots of D3.
There is no way to tell how many vaccinated people actually got infected but had no or negligible symptoms. I guess we could mandate everyone get tested daily before you can go grocery shopping.
Post by: nddons on September 22, 2021, 11:46:56 AM
Because the virus is so bloody effective that it can get past the vaccine to set up an infection. No one in their right mind wants a COVID infection.Covid has turned from a pandemic to an endemic. It’s not going to be “defeated.” We will have to learn to live with it.
And there is something I forgot to mention. Some are claiming the vaccine is going to make the virus mutate to a more deadly form. To some small degree there is a grain of truth to this. If the biggest roadblock to the virus' replication is a vaccine, the virus will evolve beyond it. That said, were everyone vaccinated this wouldn't be a worry. But because there's so much propagation, sooner or later the virus will get past the vaccine. We're in a race to get rid of it before it does this, and we're losing.
The good news in all this is whatever the virus' does to evolve, we're pretty smart cookies ourselves and we know more about the virus than when it first showed up. The one good thing about the mRNA vaccines is they can be nearly effortlessly tailored toward a new viral protein or even a different one. Moreover, since the active ingredient in the mRNA vaccine is RNA, my hope is a new vaccine would fit under the rubric of the old one, since its chemical composition is nearly identical. My hope is we can spool up mRNA vaccines quickly indeed.
Aren’t we doing the wrong thing by not allowing the young and healthy to be exposed to the virus, like the flu or chicken pox, so they can build up a far superior natural immunity?
Post by: Steingar on September 22, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
What is the fatality rate for those admitted and subsequently died conclusively FROM covid?
And it's not a vaccine.
First, all I know about those who died in hospital from COVID is the vast majority were unvaccinated. I recall early in the pandemic folks were expiring from COVID induced respiratory failure and the cause of death was just "respiratory failure". If anything I suspect the number of COVID=related deaths is underreported.
I'd love to hear your reasoning as to why the highly effective and very safe COVID vaccine is something other. I'm somewhat down today and could use a good laugh.
Post by: jb1842 on September 22, 2021, 12:04:08 PM
Oh so she has no symptoms? Just tested because of surgery? In that case it might be a false positive.
Just tested for surgery. No symptoms.
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2021, 12:07:25 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 22, 2021, 12:08:10 PM
I'd love to hear your reasoning as to why the highly effective and very safe COVID vaccine is something other. I'm somewhat down today and could use a good laugh.
Back hitting the bottle again?
Post by: nddons on September 22, 2021, 01:50:32 PM
I thought you were kidding. I’m not terrified of the unvaccinated at all. But I know some who are. There’s one guy I work with, remotely of course, who is vaccinated but so freaked out about still getting sick he will barely leave his house. He has no desire for things to get back to normal. He doesn’t care about the economy because he’s still getting his paycheck. He wears a mask on the rare occasions he must go out and thinks everyone else should too. They are reopening the office but he has announced that he will refuse to come in. Even though the desks are spread apart with plexiglass between them and it will be on a rotating 50% capacity with masks and vaccinations required. He still refuses to go in. The boss isn’t going to force anyone.Yep. Saw a fair amount of the brainwashed fear mongers in Florida last week.
He doesn’t want things to get back to normal. He is irrationally terrified of the virus itself. I think there are a LOT like him.
Post by: Rush on September 22, 2021, 02:17:00 PM
I have a love hate thing going on for Brand. He calls out the left for their hypocrisy in this video. Love it.
Post by: Username on September 22, 2021, 04:40:26 PM
I'd love to hear your reasoning as to why the highly effective and very safe COVID vaccine is something other. I'm somewhat down today and could use a good laugh.We really don't know how highly effective the "vaccine" is. We don't know how many of the vaccinated had the disease, were asymptomatic, and got vaccinated on top of that. The vaccine did nothing for them. However knowing how super highly infectious it is, and how rarely it becomes serious, it is likely that the majority of vaccinated people had already been infected.
THERE IS NO DATA on infections, on spread, on deaths. And given that, we'll never know how effective the vaccine is.
Post by: Rush on September 22, 2021, 05:31:42 PM
We really don't know how highly effective the "vaccine" is. We don't know how many of the vaccinated had the disease, were asymptomatic, and got vaccinated on top of that. The vaccine did nothing for them. However knowing how super highly infectious it is, and how rarely it becomes serious, it is likely that the majority of vaccinated people had already been infected.
THERE IS NO DATA on infections, on spread, on deaths. And given that, we'll never know how effective the vaccine is.
Wow, that is true. Although the trial should have controlled for that. Did they test the trial subjects for antibodies prior to the vaccine or did they just ask them if they’d had covid?
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 22, 2021, 07:19:41 PM
Wow, that is true. Although the trial should have controlled for that. Did they test the trial subjects for antibodies prior to the vaccine or did they just ask them if they’d had covid?
Not sure what testing is being referenced here, but if it is the phase 3 trials of the mRNA vaccines then the answer is that they did test whether participants had antibodies or active viral RNA. Here is a relevant quote from the Moderna phase 3 results:
Participants were assessed for the presence of SARS-CoV-2–binding antibodies specific to the SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid protein (Roche Elecsys, Roche Diagnostics International) and had a nasopharyngeal swab for SARS-CoV-2 RT-PCR testing (Viracor, Eurofins Clinical Diagnostics) before each injection. SARS-CoV-2–infected volunteers were followed daily, to assess symptom severity, for 14 days or until symptoms resolved, whichever was longer. A nasopharyngeal swab for RT-PCR testing and a blood sample for identifying serologic evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection were collected from participants with symptoms of Covid-19.
From: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389 (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389)
Even if they had not done the pre-injection testing, odds are both the test and control arms would have had similar number of currently or previously infected subjects and so they would cancel out in any comparative analysis. Double blinding helps insure the same criteria is used during evaluation of both control and test subjects.
All the standard precautions against tainted results that have been developed over decades of medical research appear to have been employed.
Post by: nddons on September 22, 2021, 07:35:21 PM
Post by: bflynn on September 22, 2021, 11:16:07 PM
We really don't know how highly effective the "vaccine" is. We don't know how many of the vaccinated had the disease, were asymptomatic, and got vaccinated on top of that. The vaccine did nothing for them. However knowing how super highly infectious it is, and how rarely it becomes serious, it is likely that the majority of vaccinated people had already been infected.
THERE IS NO DATA on infections, on spread, on deaths. And given that, we'll never know how effective the vaccine is.
Sorry, but this is just bullshit. There is plenty of data on the effectiveness of the vaccines and studies conducted in multiple countries and by practically every medical research group that exists. I’m not going to Google it for you, but I suggest you do it for yourself before you make outlandish statements like this.
Post by: Anthony on September 23, 2021, 03:18:46 AM
Sorry, but this is just bullshit. There is plenty of data on the effectiveness of the vaccines and studies conducted in multiple countries and by practically every medical research group that exists. I’m not going to Google it for you, but I suggest you do it for yourself before you make outlandish statements like this.
I trust neither the data they use nor the methodology of the analysis to make a conclusive statement on vaccine effectiveness.
Post by: bflynn on September 23, 2021, 05:30:50 AM
I trust neither the data they use nor the methodology of the analysis to make a conclusive statement on vaccine effectiveness.
So...you don't trust any medical research? Have you even looked at any of it?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 23, 2021, 05:46:41 AM
Post by: Steingar on September 23, 2021, 06:05:28 AM
Had a FB friend tell me he had a family member die after getting the vaccine.
No doubt got hit by a truck.
We really don't know how highly effective the "vaccine" is. We don't know how many of the vaccinated had the disease, were asymptomatic, and got vaccinated on top of that. The vaccine did nothing for them. However knowing how super highly infectious it is, and how rarely it becomes serious, it is likely that the majority of vaccinated people had already been infected.
THERE IS NO DATA on infections, on spread, on deaths. And given that, we'll never know how effective the vaccine is.
I need d a good laugh and you gave me one. Thank you.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 06:16:02 AM
Had a FB friend tell me he had a family member die after getting the vaccine.
As of 09/10/21 the reported number of covid vaccine deaths in the US is 14,925
That's reported, and it is widely know that VAERS is severely underreported https://openvaers.com/images/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-report-20116.pdf
In previous history of the FDA, once the threshold of a vaccine reaches 50 deaths attributed to the vaccine, it is immediately pulled from the market. However, with Covid this has been ignored.
Here's a chart for perspective
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5474.0;attach=2190;image)
Post by: Steingar on September 23, 2021, 06:17:10 AM
Post by: Number7 on September 23, 2021, 06:18:15 AM
No doubt got hit by a truck.
I need d a good laugh and you gave me one. Thank you.
It's pretty early in the morning for you to be already drunk.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 06:20:20 AM
Sadly, VAERS has become political and badly abused. One of the vaccines caused blood clots in six people and its administration was halted for weeks.
Curious, how do you justify the 15,000 deaths so far attributed to the so called vaccine?
Post by: Username on September 23, 2021, 06:31:11 AM
I need d a good laugh and you gave me one. Thank you.Death and disease amuse you? Wow, you're one sick puppy.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 06:55:10 AM
Quote
Sarah Green was a healthy 16-year-old — until she developed neurological problems after getting Pfizer’s COVID vaccine. But doctors said her new tremors, tics and debilitating migraines couldn’t possibly be caused by the vaccine.
In an exclusive interview with The Defender, Sarah and her mother, Marie Green, said they feel helpless because nobody will acknowledge Sarah’s vaccine injury and “nobody can help them.”
Sarah received her second dose of Pfizer on May 4, and immediately experienced a headache at the base of her neck that radiated to her temples. She said it felt like she got “hit by a bus.” She took a nap in hopes she could sleep it off.
The headaches never went away and slowly, over the course of three weeks, Sarah developed small facial twitches.
“The night of May 23, I went to my dad because my neck had started twitching every 15 seconds,” Sarah said.
Green said Sarah would start a word and it was as if her brain would reset. “It wasn’t like she was trying to get a word out — it would just start over.”
After Sarah’s symptoms worsened, her parents took her to Johnston Health in Smithfield, North Carolina. Upon arrival the physicians noticed Sarah had constant tremors. Green said the doctor looked down and noticed Sarah’s right foot also had a tremor, but they didn’t have a pediatric neurologist, so she was transferred to WakeMed in Raleigh once she stabilized.
Sarah’s EEG, MRI with and without contrast and CT scans were normal. After two days the doctor came in and said Sarah had a nervous twitch and needed to see a mental health professional.
During the MRI with contrast, Sarah’s mother said she stopped breathing and had to be pulled out of the machine and intubated. Two hours later the doctor came in and said they were going to send Sarah home.
“They weren’t even going to refer her to a neurologist,” Green said. “They said it was just a nervous tic and she needed to see a therapist.”
Green said the vaccine was not the first thing she thought of when her daughter’s symptoms initially started, but the hospital had her fill out a form of things that might have changed and “when it came down to it, the only thing that changed was the vaccine.”
When Green asked the doctor if the vaccine could have caused her daughter’s condition, he got very defensive and said, “We can’t blame everything on the vaccine.”
Green said the physician’s response was frustrating. “How can you say you don’t know what it is but say the vaccine isn’t the cause?” she asked.
Green said, “As soon as we said it was the vaccine, it was like they couldn’t get us out of there fast enough.”
When Sarah finally got into a neurologist on June 6, Green asked if Sarah’s condition was vaccine-related.
The doctor said Sarah had functional movement disorder and it was not related to the vaccine — although she said she has seen more cases since COVID vaccines were approved because people “stress themselves out over the vaccine and it’s psychosomatic.”
According to the National Organization for Rare Disorders, functional movement disorder is a type of functional neurological disorder that occurs when there is a problem with the functioning of the nervous system and how the brain and body send and/or receive signals — rather than a structural disease process, such as multiple sclerosis or stroke.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 06:58:45 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 07:20:05 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/vanderbilt-researchers-discover-ultra-potent-antibody-against-covid-and-variants/ar-AAOI0tq
Quote
Vanderbilt University Medical Center says technology it developed has led to the discovery of an “ultra-potent” monoclonal antibody against COVID-19 and variants, including delta.
VUMC made the announcement Wednesday, saying the antibody can neutralize against SARS-CoV-2, the virus behind COVID-19. The research was published in "Cell Reports" earlier this month.
Researchers explain the technology behind the discovery is called LIBRA-seq, or Linking B-cell Receptor to Antigen Specificity through sequencing. It helped speed up the discovery.
“This is one way to proactively build a repertoire of potential therapeutics” against future outbreaks, said Ivelin Georgiev, PhD, director of the Vanderbilt Program in Computational Microbiology and Immunology and associate director of the Vanderbilt Institute for Infection, Immunology and Inflammation. “The pathogens keep evolving, and we’re basically playing catch-up."
Georgiev says this antibody has "uncommon genetic and structural characteristics" that are different from other antibodies used to treat COVID-19. The thought is that SARS-CoV-2 will be less likely to mutate to escape an antibody it hasn’t “seen” before.
LIBRA-seq was developed by 2019 by Ian Setliff, PhD, a former graduate student in Georgiev’s lab who now works in the biotechnology industry, and by Andrea Shiakolas, a current Vanderbilt graduate student.
Post by: Steingar on September 23, 2021, 07:24:28 AM
Curious, how do you justify the 15,000 deaths so far attributed to the so called vaccine?
I've asked you like 4 times to document this. All I get for my efforts are insults. I have an antivaxxer student, I asked him the same question. All I got was dubious anecdotes.
I "justify" the deaths as unfortunate occurrences that occurred around the time of vaccination. Given the millions have been vaccinated, it stands to reason that some fraction was already on the way to some sort of adverse outcome.
Post by: Steingar on September 23, 2021, 07:30:46 AM
Man.
Mike.
Lay off the scotch first thing in the morning.
mikey is a poor, deranged, drunk, idiot.
It's pretty early in the morning for you to be already drunk.
mikey is drunk posting again I see..
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 07:32:14 AM
I've asked you like 4 times to document this. All I get for my efforts are insults. I have an antivaxxer student, I asked him the same question. All I got was dubious anecdotes.
I "justify" the deaths as unfortunate occurrences that occurred around the time of vaccination. Given the millions have been vaccinated, it stands to reason that some fraction was already on the way to some sort of adverse outcome.
So VAERS (government run site) is incorrect? And the doctors reporting to VAERS are lying about their data?
Post by: Steingar on September 23, 2021, 07:33:32 AM
So VAERS (government run site) is incorrect? And the doctors reporting to VAERS are lying about their data?
VAERS is unmoderated and free for anyone to dump in anything. And they have.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 07:42:27 AM
VAERS is unmoderated and free for anyone to dump in anything. And they have.
Really? ::)
So for decades this was a valuable tool, but now we must discount it because it doesn't fit the narrative?
BTW, since you like demanding proof, where's your proof that anyone is dumping in anything to VAERS WRT covid? Are you claining medical professionals are not making these reports?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 23, 2021, 07:47:57 AM
Really? ::)
So for decades this was a valuable tool, but now we must discount it because it doesn't fit the narrative?
BTW, since you like demanding proof, where's your proof that anyone is dumping in anything to VAERS WRT covid? Are you claining medical professionals are not making these reports?
A piece of real data from the Project Veritas video linked earlier: Medical professionals are not making a VAERS report for all that they are seeing, because it takes half an hour to make each one. And they don’t have the time. From this I would concur with those who say VAERS data on these vaccines is vastly underreported.
Post by: Rush on September 23, 2021, 08:32:43 AM
I've asked you like 4 times to document this. All I get for my efforts are insults. I have an antivaxxer student, I asked him the same question. All I got was dubious anecdotes.
I "justify" the deaths as unfortunate occurrences that occurred around the time of vaccination. Given the millions have been vaccinated, it stands to reason that some fraction was already on the way to some sort of adverse outcome.
I mostly agree with Michael on this, although I remain open minded to the possibility that the vaccine is causing certain cases. Unfortunately it has become so political that the very rare cases of true vaccine injury might be being dismissed. While at the same time maybe there are a lot of psychosomatic reactions. The truth is all muddied up with the incredibly hysterical polarization going on around the subject.
I’ve never seen anything like this. Not even in the 1980s when the anti vaxers thought childhood disease vaccines were causing autism.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 01:17:02 PM
Yessireee, under mandates Moderna and others are guaranteeing billion dollar income for decades!
Gee, wonder what other drugs they could get the government to pay for under force of power?
https://summit.news/2021/09/23/ceo-of-moderna-says-even-young-will-need-to-take-vaccine-booster-shots-indefinitely/
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 23, 2021, 01:18:49 PM
hmmmm, there is the covid-19 vaccine.
and, then there is....
ummm
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 01:33:37 PM
what vaccinations are required in order to have a job?
hmmmm, there is the covid-19 vaccine.
and, then there is....
ummm
Don’t think that if the administration succeeds in this, that the pharmaceuticals won’t start coming up with other drugs “that must be mandated” for everyone’s safety?
Also, you’re retired. What’s to stop Biden from withholding your SS check until you comply?
Don’t think that’s not been looked at yet?
Post by: Rush on September 23, 2021, 01:41:28 PM
what vaccinations are required in order to have a job?
hmmmm, there is the covid-19 vaccine.
and, then there is....
ummm
To my knowledge outside of the military none. And that’s as it should be. A job is survival, we all have a right to earn a living and retain medical privacy.
People will talk about vaccines being required to attend school. That’s not the same thing. That has its roots in history when those diseases were major killers of children and babies. Whooping cough, diphtheria, polio, tetanus, measles and German measles all targeted children and were major illnesses that were especially deadly to infants. Whether forced vaccination is right or wrong you have to understand the context of when the school mandates were implemented.
School is NOT necessary for survival. A job is. You don’t want your kid vaccinated? You can homeschool. But you need a job to eat.
And covid is NOT a baby killer. There is no justifiable context for forcing covid vaccines on people to work and earn a living.
FAR BETTER public policy would be to tell people to get off their fat asses, lose weight, stop smoking and get some vitamin D. Get grandma vaccinated and let everybody else do what they want.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 23, 2021, 01:45:41 PM
If true, hoo boy.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 01:48:38 PM
No confirmation, but I’ve seen a mention or two that two cases of leprosy have been reported in Bidenville.
If true, hoo boy.
Biden is currently importing several diseases into this country. And he doesn’t care.
This is the cornerstone of why his Covid vaccine mandate is nothing but political.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 01:50:20 PM
Post by: jb1842 on September 23, 2021, 02:13:57 PM
https://summit.news/2021/09/23/biden-pushing-for-dishonourable-discharges-court-martials-for-troops-who-refuse-vaccines/
Biden is retarded. You need to be convicted of a felony at a general court martial to receive a dishonorable discharge. No way that will happen. They may try, but they will get bitch slapped for it.
Post by: Lucifer on September 23, 2021, 02:16:15 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/afghan-children-fort-mccoy-wisconsin-not-forced-wear-masks-school-us-children-state-wear-masks-school/
Post by: Rush on September 23, 2021, 02:39:05 PM
Tell me again how this is about public health?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/afghan-children-fort-mccoy-wisconsin-not-forced-wear-masks-school-us-children-state-wear-masks-school/
All the pictures of my 5 year old grandson at his preschool are him wearing a mask. Sickening. Wrecking memories.
Post by: Anthony on September 23, 2021, 07:06:10 PM
All the pictures of my 5 year old grandson at his preschool are him wearing a mask. Sickening. Wrecking memories.
No!!!!!
Post by: nddons on September 23, 2021, 07:53:28 PM
https://summit.news/2021/09/23/biden-pushing-for-dishonourable-discharges-court-martials-for-troops-who-refuse-vaccines/What a fucking prick. Just goes to show the disdain the left has for the military and American individualism.
Post by: bflynn on September 23, 2021, 08:01:57 PM
In previous history of the FDA, once the threshold of a vaccine reaches 50 deaths attributed to the vaccine, it is immediately pulled from the market. However, with Covid this has been ignored.
I find this difficult to believe. Every year, there are undoubtedly more than 50 deaths after the administration of flu shots. But the FDA does not pull the flu vaccine because VAERS is about statistical analysis and rates, not straight numbers. Making the claim that there is magical threshold being ignored indicates a severe lack of understanding what the VAERS data is about.
Besides, isn't this the difference between dying from the COVID vaccine and dying with the COVID vaccine?
Doctors are legally required to report a death which occurs within 2 weeks after a vaccination, regardless of cause. I’ve done this math here before, but apparently there are some who not only don’t believe in/understand science, they don’t believe in or understand statistics either.
Bottom line, the annual mortality rate in the US in 2019 (the last normal year) was a few points below 870 per 100,000. Divide by 26 gives you a mortality rate for every two weeks. Now multiply that by how many people got a vaccination in a given two week period and that gives you an expected number of deaths unrelated to COVID.
I’m not going to find those number again, but adding up all the two week periods and it will tell you the 15,000 deaths in VAERS is lower than this expected number of people who would have died anyway. Therefore, we do not expect that the vaccine is causing these deaths and any claim to the contrary must present evidence or be treated as unsubstantiated rumor.
The single place there appears to be something indicating a higher risk is myocarditis in young males. That is a naturally occurring event and the occurrence rate after vaccination is slightly higher than the general population. It’s unclear why this would be, but the risk is small, so the FDA makes sure the risk is stated and they leave it to the people to look after their own affairs.
I think this is third or fourth time I’ve explained this. Is it not clear or is it just being rejected because it doesn’t fit someone’s narrative?
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 23, 2021, 08:30:27 PM
Doctors are legally required to report a death which occurs within 2 weeks after a vaccination, regardless of cause.
In case anyone doesn’t believe Flynn’s claim, here’s a CDC web page that supports his assertion:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/hcproviders/reportingadverseevents.html (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/hcproviders/reportingadverseevents.html)
Healthcare providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination [under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)], and other adverse events if later revised by FDA:
o Vaccine administration errors, whether or not associated with an adverse event (AE)
o Serious AEs regardless of causality. Serious AEs per FDA are defined as:
1. Death
2. A life-threatening AE
3. Inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization
4. A persistent or significant incapacity or substantial disruption of the ability to conduct normal life functions
5. A congenital anomaly/birth defect
6. An important medical event that based on appropriate medical judgement may jeopardize the individual and may require medical or surgical intervention to prevent one of the outcomes listed above
o Cases of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome
o Cases of COVID-19 that result in hospitalization or death
Healthcare providers are encouraged to report to VAERS any additional clinically significant AEs following vaccination, even if they are not sure if vaccination caused the event.
There are additional details on that web page regarding reporting requirements. It should be clear that the deliberate exclusion of causality makes using the raw numbers useless for anything other than hints at possible problems with vaccines.
Post by: nddons on September 23, 2021, 09:00:38 PM
I find this difficult to believe. Every year, there are undoubtedly more than 50 deaths after the administration of flu shots. But the FDA does not pull the flu vaccine because VAERS is about statistical analysis and rates, not straight numbers. Making the claim that there is magical threshold being ignored indicates a severe lack of understanding what the VAERS data is about.You aren’t making any sense.
Besides, isn't this the difference between dying from the COVID vaccine and dying with the COVID vaccine?
Doctors are legally required to report a death which occurs within 2 weeks after a vaccination, regardless of cause. I’ve done this math here before, but apparently there are some who not only don’t believe in/understand science, they don’t believe in or understand statistics either.
Bottom line, the annual mortality rate in the US in 2019 (the last normal year) was a few points below 870 per 100,000. Divide by 26 gives you a mortality rate for every two weeks. Now multiply that by how many people got a vaccination in a given two week period and that gives you an expected number of deaths unrelated to COVID.
I’m not going to find those number again, but adding up all the two week periods and it will tell you the 15,000 deaths in VAERS is lower than this expected number of people who would have died anyway. Therefore, we do not expect that the vaccine is causing these deaths and any claim to the contrary must present evidence or be treated as unsubstantiated rumor.
The single place there appears to be something indicating a higher risk is myocarditis in young males. That is a naturally occurring event and the occurrence rate after vaccination is slightly higher than the general population. It’s unclear why this would be, but the risk is small, so the FDA makes sure the risk is stated and they leave it to the people to look after their own affairs.
I think this is third or fourth time I’ve explained this. Is it not clear or is it just being rejected because it doesn’t fit someone’s narrative?
If doctors are legally required to report a death which occurs within 2 weeks after a vaccination, and VAERS is showing 15,000 people died because of the vaccine, then how could those 15,000 deaths be an unsubstantiated rumor? The risks for naturally occurring deaths don’t make it to VAERS, so what is in VAERS is vaccine deaths coming from doctors’ inputs, isn’t it?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 24, 2021, 03:56:32 AM
You aren’t making any sense.
If doctors are legally required to report a death which occurs within 2 weeks after a vaccination, and VAERS is showing 15,000 people died because of the vaccine, then how could those 15,000 deaths be an unsubstantiated rumor? The risks for naturally occurring deaths don’t make it to VAERS, so what is in VAERS is vaccine deaths coming from doctors’ inputs, isn’t it?
Is VAERS reporting the cause of the death or simply that a death occurred?
https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html
"When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. [emphasis mine] Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event."
Post by: Rush on September 24, 2021, 04:49:05 AM
I find this difficult to believe. Every year, there are undoubtedly more than 50 deaths after the administration of flu shots. But the FDA does not pull the flu vaccine because VAERS is about statistical analysis and rates, not straight numbers. Making the claim that there is magical threshold being ignored indicates a severe lack of understanding what the VAERS data is about.
Besides, isn't this the difference between dying from the COVID vaccine and dying with the COVID vaccine?
Doctors are legally required to report a death which occurs within 2 weeks after a vaccination, regardless of cause. I’ve done this math here before, but apparently there are some who not only don’t believe in/understand science, they don’t believe in or understand statistics either.
Bottom line, the annual mortality rate in the US in 2019 (the last normal year) was a few points below 870 per 100,000. Divide by 26 gives you a mortality rate for every two weeks. Now multiply that by how many people got a vaccination in a given two week period and that gives you an expected number of deaths unrelated to COVID.
I’m not going to find those number again, but adding up all the two week periods and it will tell you the 15,000 deaths in VAERS is lower than this expected number of people who would have died anyway. Therefore, we do not expect that the vaccine is causing these deaths and any claim to the contrary must present evidence or be treated as unsubstantiated rumor.
The single place there appears to be something indicating a higher risk is myocarditis in young males. That is a naturally occurring event and the occurrence rate after vaccination is slightly higher than the general population. It’s unclear why this would be, but the risk is small, so the FDA makes sure the risk is stated and they leave it to the people to look after their own affairs.
I think this is third or fourth time I’ve explained this. Is it not clear or is it just being rejected because it doesn’t fit someone’s narrative?
You are right about all of this except the bold part. If there are fewer deaths than a normal year then something is causing fewer deaths and we don’t know what. Whatever it is might be greater than the increase in deaths caused by the vaccine. You might have addressed this in your other post.
Whenever I try to nail down these numbers I run slam up against an incredible difficulty finding facts. I have found information indicating that all cause death rate is lower since covid, or it’s the same but the proportion that are killed by covid is way high while all other causes are low or non-existent, like flu.
But usually all you can find is x number of covid deaths, period, implying that all those people would still be alive if not for covid, even if they were in the terminal stages of cancer, Alzheimer’s, ALS, etc.
Post by: bflynn on September 24, 2021, 04:50:15 AM
VAERS is showing 15,000 people died because of the vaccine
Here's where I think you're missing the distinction...15,000 people died WITH the vaccine.
And highlighting this from Bob's post, which says the same thing - "Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event."
Post by: bflynn on September 24, 2021, 04:53:33 AM
You are right about all of this except the bold part. If there are fewer deaths than a normal year then something is causing fewer deaths and we don’t know what. Whatever it is might be greater than the increase in deaths caused by the vaccine. You might have addressed this in your other post.
Whenever I try to nail down these numbers I run slam up against an incredible difficulty finding facts. I have found information indicating that all cause death rate is lower since covid, or it’s the same but the proportion that are killed by covid is way high while all other causes are low or non-existent, like flu.
But usually all you can find is x number of covid deaths, period, implying that all those people would still be alive if not for covid, even if they were in the terminal stages of cancer, Alzheimer’s, ALS, etc.
Overall, the number of deaths is up. Deaths by "traditional" causes is down and the total has been raised by COVID. Or maybe deaths artificially attributed to covid, someone comes in with a gunshot wound and dies, but the covid test was positive.
Data is a huge problem. The mortality numbers usually are not finalized and published until a full year later, so it will probably be 2023 before better analysis can be done. It's the government, we should expect more, but only if we want to be disappointed.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2021, 05:47:58 AM
I think this is third or fourth time I’ve explained this. Is it not clear or is it just being rejected because it doesn’t fit someone’s narrative?
No, it's because it's your inane explanation can't be backed up. You're just trying to make it fit your narrative.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2021, 07:02:04 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2021, 07:05:15 AM
Post by: Number7 on September 24, 2021, 07:10:40 AM
No, it's because it's your inane explanation can't be backed up. You're just trying to make it fit your narrative.
When the ideology requires total devotion, the responses always fit the narrative.
I mean, the CDC has NEVER changed their descriptions to fit the narrative, have they???
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2021, 08:06:13 AM
Post by: jb1842 on September 24, 2021, 08:31:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/3xdOhKr.jpg)
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2021, 09:31:37 AM
Post by: bflynn on September 24, 2021, 09:42:07 AM
If you can't prove it, then you are just telling lies and nobody should listen to you.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2021, 09:50:16 AM
Source for the assertion on the bottom? If it's true then there has been criminal fraud going on and you have a duty to report it and prove it.
I've provided that info previously. Because you refuse to read you've obviously not seen it.
BTW, Project Veritas has already shown in a federally run hospital staff admitting they were told not to report. I'm sure you will come back with "that's isolated, doesn't prove anything, yada yada yada".
If you can't prove it, then you are just telling lies and nobody should listen to you.
LOL!!! God, you are such a clown! This coming from a you especially.
Post by: bflynn on September 24, 2021, 10:54:33 AM
I don't hang on every word here. If it was important enough to post, then it should be important enough to point out again. I'm sure I'm not the only person who missed it, nor the only one who thinks you're being played. Or maybe you're the player and the reason you get so upset is because there are some who don't fall for your games?
Post by: bflynn on September 24, 2021, 10:57:33 AM
No, it's because it's your inane explanation can't be backed up. You're just trying to make it fit your narrative.
Except...my narrative flows from what VAERS is about, not the other way around.
I can conceive of no intelligent way to start from confirmed facts and arrive at a massive government conspiracy that nobody has leaked. I mean, Trump couldn't keep his phone calls secret, you think there is nobody in the government that wouldn't copy some documents and release them if they could prove something.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2021, 12:32:19 PM
That's an isolated incident, it doesn't prove anything, yada, yada, yada.
I don't hang on every word here. If it was important enough to post, then it should be important enough to point out again. I'm sure I'm not the only person who missed it, nor the only one who thinks you're being played. Or maybe you're the player and the reason you get so upset is because there are some who don't fall for your games?
No anger here pal. I just don't suffer fools, hence my remarks to YOU.
Post by: Lucifer on September 24, 2021, 12:32:52 PM
Except...my narrative flows from what VAERS is about, not the other way around.
I can conceive of no intelligent way to start from confirmed facts and arrive at a massive government conspiracy that nobody has leaked. I mean, Trump couldn't keep his phone calls secret, you think there is nobody in the government that wouldn't copy some documents and release them if they could prove something.
Nice try. Fail, as usual.
Post by: Number7 on September 24, 2021, 12:56:04 PM
That's an isolated incident, it doesn't prove anything, yada, yada, yada.
I don't hang on every word here. If it was important enough to post, then it should be important enough to point out again. I'm sure I'm not the only person who missed it, nor the only one who thinks you're being played.
Nope. Your pretense of superiority is a mile wide and an inch thick.
Sometimes I think you and Logajan are the same guy... full of elitist, bullshit and short on substance and IQ.
Post by: bflynn on September 24, 2021, 06:47:09 PM
You still haven't proven anything. You have a claim that only 10% of the actual issues are being recorded, so by your assertion, 150,000 people have actually died from vaccines. Yet, nobody knows about it.
You don't find that odd?
Post by: Number7 on September 24, 2021, 06:49:12 PM
If you are so smart, why do you constantly run bullshit designed to pretend?
Golly, as Gomer apple would say, you're boring.
Post by: Lucifer on September 25, 2021, 05:29:29 AM
Post by: Rush on September 25, 2021, 06:23:32 AM
https://uncoverdc.com/2021/09/24/vaers-system-broken-few-reporting-adverse-reactions/
I’m very sure both happens. A whole lot of underreporting and also a lot of superfluous overreporting. I went through the raw data myself and saw a lot that went like this: “My 94 year old grandfather in a nursing home got the vaccine and then died a week later.”
Tons of reports that could simply be coincident in time, no evidence whatsoever the vaccine caused the event, but also no evidence that it didn’t. That’s where you’d need to identify a causal mechanism and find it on autopsy, but cardiac arrhythmias are virtually impossible to detect postmortem. We don’t typically autopsy old people in nursing homes anyway. So then you’d need to demonstrate a statistically significant increase in deaths shortly after the vaccine compared to a comparable population which requires expensive, careful and time consuming investigation. Theoretically, these adverse effects should have been detected in trials.
It’s also worth noting that the same coincidence problem exists in covid the disease, with deaths attributed to covid if testing positive, when the death may well have been due to something else, like maybe the cancer they were already in hospice for.
I don’t trust any of these numbers. The data and the opinions are all over the map and unfortunately the opinions of experts are less trustworthy than those of ordinary people in this case, which is the opposite of what it should be, because the political agenda is so strong. I’m not saying the experts are less correct, I’m saying they have squandered trust. Such nonsense as “wear two masks” and “only two weeks” and so on, has torpedoed their credibility.
Possibly the vaccine is very safe and possibly the best course is for everyone to take it (I don’t believe that but it might be true) but at this point there is no way you’re going to get the doubters to go along with you, and it is your own goddamn fault. You’ve been doing nothing but lie and obfuscate and mismanage this pandemic from the start and your mismanagement has caused immeasurable damage. We would have been way better off if the CDC, WHO, Fauci, and self appointed Democrat tyrant Governors didn’t exist and we had just let the virus burn through the population like all other colds and flus.
Post by: Lucifer on September 25, 2021, 06:39:08 AM
I’m very sure both happens. A whole lot of underreporting and also a lot of superfluous overreporting. I went through the raw data myself and saw a lot that went like this: “My 94 year old grandfather in a nursing home got the vaccine and then died a week later.”
Tons of reports that could simply be coincident in time, no evidence whatsoever the vaccine caused the event, but also no evidence that it didn’t. That’s where you’d need to identify a causal mechanism and find it on autopsy, but cardiac arrhythmias are virtually impossible to detect postmortem. We don’t typically autopsy old people in nursing homes anyway. So then you’d need to demonstrate a statistically significant increase in deaths shortly after the vaccine compared to a comparable population which requires expensive, careful and time consuming investigation. Theoretically, these adverse effects should have been detected in trials.
It’s also worth noting that the same coincidence problem exists in covid the disease, with deaths attributed to covid if testing positive, when the death may well have been due to something else, like maybe the cancer they were already in hospice for.
I don’t trust any of these numbers. The data and the opinions are all over the map and unfortunately the opinions of experts are less trustworthy than those of ordinary people in this case, which is the opposite of what it should be, because the political agenda is so strong. I’m not saying the experts are less correct, I’m saying they have squandered trust. Such nonsense as “wear two masks” and “only two weeks” and so on, has torpedoed their credibility.
Possibly the vaccine is very safe and possibly the best course is for everyone to take it (I don’t believe that but it might be true) but at this point there is no way you’re going to get the doubters to go along with you, and it is your own goddamn fault. You’ve been doing nothing but lie and obfuscate and mismanage this pandemic from the start and your mismanagement has caused immeasurable damage. We would have been way better off if the CDC, WHO, Fauci, and self appointed Democrat tyrant Governors didn’t exist and we had just let the virus burn through the population like all other colds and flus.
I personally know several now that had adverse reactions from the clot shot. The Branch Covidians will try to explain it away as just a coincidence or some other inane twisted explanation.
Those deaths that have been reported and covered tell the story. Yes, the numbers are skewed, just as the numbers of people who died with Covid. It’s one huge shit show.
The Biden Admin along with Pope Tony and the Branch Covidians want these draconian mandates because they know Covid is on its way down, and they want to tell the obedient sheeple it’s because of the mandates, and why we should all obey mandates whenever the King tells us.
Post by: Rush on September 25, 2021, 08:33:30 AM
I personally know several now that had adverse reactions from the clot shot. The Branch Covidians will try to explain it away as just a coincidence or some other inane twisted explanation.
Those deaths that have been reported and covered tell the story. Yes, the numbers are skewed, just as the numbers of people who died with Covid. It’s one huge shit show.
The Biden Admin along with Pope Tony and the Branch Covidians want these draconian mandates because they know Covid is on its way down, and they want to tell the obedient sheeple it’s because of the mandates, and why we should all obey mandates whenever the King tells us.
That is absolutely true. We now have an elite ruling class using all a available means to discredit and ruin the middle class, because you can’t have a King when you have a free and self sufficient middle class. You want only serfs and lords. The covid mandates are very effective at turning an autonomous middle class into serfs.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on September 25, 2021, 08:41:37 AM
https://gab.com/threesevens/posts/106992944835283117
Post by: Lucifer on September 25, 2021, 06:00:21 PM
Post by: Number7 on September 25, 2021, 06:29:17 PM
https://www.deepcapture.com/2021/09/affidavit-of-ltc-theresa-long-m-d-in-support-of-a-motion-for-a-preliminary-injunction-order/
Unfortunately the pathetic people need to read and understand this document are total ideologies, too busy calling anyone who dares to offer scientific input that conflicts with the political agenda to actually, you know, investigate actual science, instead of babbling the phony, Dr Quackenheimer, fauci's never ending bullshit.
That includes posters here that simply hug the bullshit and bullshitters, while ignoring anything having to do with scientific objectivity.
Post by: Rush on September 26, 2021, 03:22:56 AM
https://www.deepcapture.com/2021/09/affidavit-of-ltc-theresa-long-m-d-in-support-of-a-motion-for-a-preliminary-injunction-order/
Wait:
Quote
Research shows that most individuals with myocarditis do not have any symptoms. Complications of myocarditis include dilated cardiomyopathy, arrhythmias, sudden cardiac death and carries a mortality rate of 20% at one year and 50% at 5 years. According to the National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, “despite optimal medical management, overall mortality has not changed in the last 30 years”.
Somebody translate that for me. Does symptomless myocarditis carry a 20% death rate at one year? Or does complications of myocarditis carry a 20% death rate?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 26, 2021, 04:22:12 AM
Wait:
Somebody translate that for me. Does symptomless myocarditis carry a 20% death rate at one year? Or does complications of myocarditis carry a 20% death rate?
Well, my technical writing was a while ago, but I’d parse that as the 20% applies to complications.
Post by: Rush on September 26, 2021, 04:37:11 AM
Well, my technical writing was a while ago, but I’d parse that as the 20% applies to complications.
I think so too, but I can see where that could be misinterpreted and then spread as “misinformation”. I think that sort of thing is happening a lot, on all sides. Some of the confusing conflicting information we get might not be deliberate, but due to stuff like that. Although much is deliberate, mostly from the lying media and communist elite.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 26, 2021, 04:46:27 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2021, 06:11:29 AM
The Government should make TV commercials with fat people to expound on the dangers of getting COVID. Tell them they need to mask up because they are most at risk, vaxxed or not vaxxed.
Exactly!
Post by: Anthony on September 26, 2021, 07:18:47 AM
The Government should make TV commercials with fat people to expound on the dangers of getting COVID. Tell them they need to mask up because they are most at risk, vaxxed or not vaxxed.
They can't , because much of American society is made up of fat, obese people that lead a very unhealthy, sedentary lifestyle shoving fast food and snacks into their face while constantly watching TV, surfing the net and playing video games.
Post by: Rush on September 26, 2021, 07:34:17 AM
The Government should make TV commercials with fat people to expound on the dangers of getting COVID. Tell them they need to mask up because they are most at risk, vaxxed or not vaxxed.
You can’t do that because “fat shaming”. Woke doesn’t tolerate it. Obese females are to be considered sexy and never told they are unhealthy. Okay I know there is a subset of kinky people who like obese females, and if that’s your thing more power to you, but it should be a rare exception not half the population. As for obese men, it doesn’t matter because males are expendable.
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2021, 08:07:27 AM
You can’t do that because “fat shaming”. Woke doesn’t tolerate it. Obese females are to be considered sexy and never told they are unhealthy. Okay I know there is a subset of kinky people who like obese females, and if that’s your thing more power to you, but it should be a rare exception not half the population. As for obese men, it doesn’t matter because males are expendable.
It’s amusing to watch an obese (250+) lecture someone who is health conscience on why the clot shot is needed for everyone.
My health is important to me, and I plan on keeping it that way.
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2021, 08:46:01 AM
Post by: texasag93 on September 26, 2021, 11:54:43 AM
The Government should make TV commercials with fat people to expound on the dangers of getting COVID. Tell them they need to mask up because they are most at risk, vaxxed or not vaxxed.
(https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2021/09/full-25466-312456-tppjauzy.png)
Post by: Rush on September 26, 2021, 12:00:43 PM
(https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2021/09/full-25466-312456-tppjauzy.png)
I call BS on the 2021 pic. They aren’t wearing masks.
Post by: texasag93 on September 26, 2021, 01:03:46 PM
;)
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 26, 2021, 01:15:39 PM
Post by: bflynn on September 26, 2021, 02:23:37 PM
Wait:
Somebody translate that for me. Does symptomless myocarditis carry a 20% death rate at one year? Or does complications of myocarditis carry a 20% death rate?
20% of people die within one year of diagnosis.
It appears what occurs with COVID is temporary, so the percentage is significantly below 20%. The number of people who have reported myocarditis is on the order of 1500 and the number of deaths is much, much lower.
Inflammations around the heart have many causes, including a lot of viruses. Myobarditis is 6 times more likely to occur from the virus that the vaccine.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 26, 2021, 03:20:21 PM
You can’t do that because “fat shaming”. Woke doesn’t tolerate it. Obese females are to be considered sexy and never told they are unhealthy. Okay I know there is a subset of kinky people who like obese females, and if that’s your thing more power to you, but it should be a rare exception not half the population. As for obese men, it doesn’t matter because males are expendable.Posted a couple of pictures with a message on FB. Kind of expecting some unfriending to come.
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2021, 03:21:56 PM
Posted a couple of pictures with a message on FB. Kind of expecting some unfriending to come.
Yet these will lecture the unvaccinated about their "unhealthy choice" not to get vaccinated.
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2021, 03:27:59 PM
Follow. The. Money.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10027901/COVID-19-vaccine-boosters-mean-billions-drugmakers.html
Quote
The forecast for Moderna's 2022 revenue has jumped 35 percent since President Joe Biden laid out his booster plan in mid-August, though Moderna booster shots are not yet approved.
Morningstar analyst Karen Andersen expects boosters alone to bring in about $26 billion in global sales next year for Pfizer and BioNTech and around $14 billion for Moderna if they're endorsed for nearly all Americans.
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2021, 03:34:44 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10029367/NYS-workers-fired-not-getting-vaccinated-wont-eligible-unemployment-insurance.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus
Quote
New York state workers who are fired for refusing to get vaccinated are not eligible for unemployment insurance, Gov. Kathy Hochul said on Saturday - just two days before the deadline for workers to get the jab.
New York City teachers and state health care workers in hospitals and nursing homes have to prove that they received at least their first dose of the COVID-19 vaccine by Monday.
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2021, 03:52:53 PM
Post by: Anthony on September 26, 2021, 03:53:25 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 26, 2021, 04:13:09 PM
xOn FB in 3...2...1
Post by: Lucifer on September 26, 2021, 04:36:20 PM
Post by: nddons on September 27, 2021, 04:54:38 AM
You can’t do that because “fat shaming”. Woke doesn’t tolerate it. Obese females are to be considered sexy and never told they are unhealthy. Okay I know there is a subset of kinky people who like obese females, and if that’s your thing more power to you, but it should be a rare exception not half the population. As for obese men, it doesn’t matter because males are expendable.You noticed that too? If you’re looking for an acting job doing commercials, you have unlimited opportunities if you are an obese woman, or a gay or straight black man or woman.
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2021, 05:12:23 AM
Post by: jb1842 on September 27, 2021, 06:07:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Gi9S7V0.png)
Yep. Last years heroes are todays trash.
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2021, 06:23:59 AM
Yep. Last years heroes are todays trash.
Exactly.
This has NOTHING to do with health.
Post by: bflynn on September 27, 2021, 06:49:41 AM
Yep.Last yearsYESTERDAY'S heroes are todays trash.
FTFY.
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
BIDEN: Well, I think, look — I think we get the vast majority. 97, 98 percent.
As he pretends to get a booster shot.
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2021, 01:46:00 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2021, 02:48:24 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2021, 03:16:13 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 27, 2021, 05:59:20 PM
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2021, 09:01:16 AM
Post by: nddons on September 28, 2021, 09:25:23 AM
https://twitter.com/Hoop_District/status/1442603984498401282?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1442603984498401282%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcitizenfreepress.com%2Fbreaking%2Fnba-star-bradley-beal-is-vaccine-woke-brilliantly-played%2FBlack athletes are really fucking up the Democrats’ narrative on the vaccine, aren’t they? How long before they are dragged back to the plantation?
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2021, 09:30:01 AM
Black athletes are really fucking up the Democrats’ narrative on the vaccine, aren’t they? How long before they are dragged back to the plantation?
BLM has come out against the vaccine.
Why isn't the media berating and shaming them? ::)
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2021, 09:43:45 AM
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2021, 04:51:33 PM
Post by: Anthony on September 28, 2021, 05:14:53 PM
BLM has come out against the vaccine.
Why isn't the media berating and shaming them? ::)
I know this is rhetorical, however, as most of us know 95% of the MEDIA is just Democrat/Communist Propaganda which is one of the biggest problems in the U.S. and Internationally today. The SHEEPLE believe them just like Nazi Germany.
Post by: Lucifer on September 28, 2021, 05:17:36 PM
Quote
Truth Being Ignored – Victoria Australia Records 867 New COVID Cases, 375 in Hospital and 95% of Those Hospitalized are Vaccinated
September 28, 2021 | Sundance | 108 Comments
Pay close attention to what Victoria, Australia, Health Minister Martin Foley says at the 2:45 minute mark of his comments.
Health Minister Foley announced 867 new COVID cases recorded yesterday. During the statistical outline Foley identifies 375 people as hospitalized, 81 people in intensive care and 61 people on a ventilator. Then comes the statistic everyone in government and media ignore. Amid the recorded cases “78% of the hospital cases are fully vaccinated, and 17% are partially vaccinated (1 dose)”….
That means 95% of the COVID patients in Victoria hospitals are vaccinated.
356 people out of 375 patients are vaccinated, yet 81 people are still in intensive care with 61 on a ventilator.
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2021, 05:45:29 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 29, 2021, 06:02:43 AM
2 months ago: Breakthroughs happen, but people don't die, so don't worry.
1 month ago: Breakthroughs happen, and some people do die, but most need not worry.
Today: Breakthroughs are bad no matter what. Booster for all
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2021, 06:07:41 AM
3 months ago: Breakthrough infections are rare, don't worry.
2 months ago: Breakthroughs happen, but people don't die, so don't worry.
1 month ago: Breakthroughs happen, and some people do die, but most need not worry.
Today: Breakthroughs are bad no matter what. Booster for all
This has nothing to do with a virus or public health.
Follow. The. Money.
Post by: Steingar on September 29, 2021, 07:14:44 AM
All of the vaccines are safe, far far safer than even a mild case of COVID. Do what you want, I don't even care anymore. I just feel sorry for those you infect. I take it back, I don't even feel sorry for all the unvaccinated folks you infect. I just feel sad.
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2021, 07:25:36 AM
For the umpteenth time. The vaccines to a very good job of keeping you out of the hospital, and do an even better one of keeping you out of the morgue. The vast majority of those hospitalized for COVID are unvaccinated. The vast majority of those dying of COVID are unvaccinated.
All of the vaccines are safe, far far safer than even a mild case of COVID. Do what you want, I don't even care anymore. I just feel sorry for those you infect. I take it back, I don't even feel sorry for all the unvaccinated folks you infect. I just feel sad.
You feel nothing. You are as empty in thought and soul as your fellow travelers.
You blindly repeat talking points in order to be a part of an ideology.
Go kneel down in front of your picture of Pope Tony and pray to him for his Devine guidance. Pledge to him and the Branch Covidians that they are the science, the only science that matters to you. Then put on your divinity face mask, your divinity "I'm vaccinated" lapel sticker and go forth to spread the gospel of the Branch Covidians.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 29, 2021, 08:38:35 AM
For the umpteenth time. The vaccines to a very good job of keeping you out of the hospital, and do an even better one of keeping you out of the morgue. The vast majority of those hospitalized for COVID are unvaccinated. The vast majority of those dying of COVID are unvaccinated.
All of the vaccines are safe, far far safer than even a mild case of COVID. Do what you want, I don't even care anymore. I just feel sorry for those you infect. I take it back, I don't even feel sorry for all the unvaccinated folks you infect. I just feel sad.
It's not a vaccine.
Post by: Number7 on September 29, 2021, 09:04:54 AM
It's not a vaccine.
Between drunk posting, sheer ignorance and an alarming devotion to whatever bullshit he was told he believed, steingar is a borderline public menace.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 29, 2021, 09:17:43 AM
It's not a vaccine.
you keep posting that. But it sure seems like it meets the definition of vaccine.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 29, 2021, 09:24:09 AM
It's not a vaccine.
It’s a dessert topping!
Post by: Username on September 29, 2021, 09:53:25 AM
It's not a vaccine.It's a pterodactyl!
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 29, 2021, 10:49:23 AM
you keep posting that. But it sure seems like it meets the definition of vaccine.
You mean the one that was changed to cover their ass because it doesn't do what the previous one said?
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 29, 2021, 11:02:44 AM
You mean the one that was changed to cover their ass because it doesn't do what the previous one said?
If you want to be anal, the word "vaccine" should only be applied to the cowpox virus. But of course the word has morphed in meaning over the years.
You may object to changing semantics, but damned if I can see what that accomplishes. The mRNA shots are medicines, no? If we call them that will you object, and if so, to what purpose?
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on September 29, 2021, 11:09:38 AM
If you want to be anal, the word "vaccine" should only be applied to the cowpox virus. But of course the word has morphed in meaning over the years.
You may object to changing semantics, but damned if I can see what that accomplishes. The mRNA shots are medicines, no? If we call them that will you object, and if so, to what purpose?
"Medicines" can't be mandated, "vaccines" can be. That's what's behind the evil coercion to be injected with a substance "just in case" you contract one virus (which mutates constantly.)
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2021, 02:57:24 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on September 29, 2021, 03:41:59 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/former-notre-dame-professor-said-damn-unvaccinated-dies-two-weeks-receiving-3rd-covid-shot/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/former-notre-dame-professor-said-damn-unvaccinated-dies-two-weeks-receiving-3rd-covid-shot/)When did Notre Dame move to Florida?
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2021, 03:46:13 PM
When did Notre Dame move to Florida?
"Former" Notre Dame Professor.
Post by: texasag93 on September 29, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/former-notre-dame-professor-said-damn-unvaccinated-dies-two-weeks-receiving-3rd-covid-shot/
Karen?
The late night TV hosts are also lambasting the unvaxxed.
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2021, 04:05:41 PM
Karen?
The late night TV hosts are also lambasting the unvaxxed.
Of course.
They can't lambast the senile pedophile for fucking up everything he touches. They don't have material now Trump is gone.
So, now they have a new enemy, the unvaccinated. Never mind that this defies all science. Never mind they have zero proof to their accusations. They need a new foil to keep the attention away from how bad the democrats are fucking everything up.
"This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated" has got to be one of the most moronic uneducated talking points..............and they've made a lot.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 29, 2021, 05:56:58 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/former-notre-dame-professor-said-damn-unvaccinated-dies-two-weeks-receiving-3rd-covid-shot/
Death appears unrelated to virus or vaccine.
Post by: Lucifer on September 29, 2021, 06:05:43 PM
Death appears unrelated to virus or vaccine.
OK, thanks for that. I didn't know you were the attending physician, or the coroner.
Post by: Jim Logajan on September 29, 2021, 07:50:26 PM
OK, thanks for that. I didn't know you were the attending physician, or the coroner.
The article states “According to Heisler’s obituary, she died of “cancer-related complications” on September 19.” It included a link to the obituary which includes that cause of death (the obituary also ends with a request to donate to cancer.org in lieu of flowers.) Unless you or the author have access to a contrary claim from the attending physician or the coroner, the only info on cause of death is what was provided in the obit. If the author is trying to sell some other cause of death, I’m not buying it without more substantial evidence.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2021, 04:25:03 AM
The article states “According to Heisler’s obituary, she died of “cancer-related complications” on September 19.” It included a link to the obituary which includes that cause of death (the obituary also ends with a request to donate to cancer.org in lieu of flowers.) Unless you or the author have access to a contrary claim from the attending physician or the coroner, the only info on cause of death is what was provided in the obit. If the author is trying to sell some other cause of death, I’m not buying it without more substantial evidence.
So, after months and months of people getting killed in car accidents, then being declared a "covid death", or committing suicide, also to be declared a "covid death", etc, etc, now we have people dying from the clot shots, but, somehow, none of those can be declared a vaccine death.
Saw my doctor yesterday. Right now his days are filled dealing with problems people are having with the vaccines. He told me about the resistance from within the medical community to classify these injuries or complications from the vaccine. In his words, it's become a "cult" situation.
And two weeks ago someone I knew passed away at 51. Average guy, great health, healthy lifestyle, no known medical problems, twice yearly physicals with an EKG once a year. A few days after getting the second clot shot (mandated by his employer) he died of cardiac arrest.
Of course the medical types and his employer are insisting it had nothing to do with the vaccine.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2021, 06:09:59 AM
Post by: Username on September 30, 2021, 06:17:45 AM
Of course.Notice that they try to cast all the unvaccinated as uneducated backwards backwoods Trump supporters. Never mind that the highest percentage of unvaccinated are people of color.
They can't lambast the senile pedophile for fucking up everything he touches. They don't have material now Trump is gone.
So, now they have a new enemy, the unvaccinated. Never mind that this defies all science. Never mind they have zero proof to their accusations. They need a new foil to keep the attention away from how bad the democrats are fucking everything up.
"This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated" has got to be one of the most moronic uneducated talking points..............and they've made a lot.
Post by: Rush on September 30, 2021, 06:31:03 AM
Notice that they try to cast all the unvaccinated as uneducated backwards backwoods Trump supporters. Never mind that the highest percentage of unvaccinated are people of color.
It’s an embarrassment to the left that BLM is coming out against vaccine mandates. Blacks aren’t going along with their authoritarian groupthink and that’s not how they’re supposed to behave.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2021, 06:45:32 AM
Notice that they try to cast all the unvaccinated as uneducated backwards backwoods Trump supporters. Never mind that the highest percentage of unvaccinated are people of color.
Alinsky tactics.
5. “Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
Also
13. "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. "
Post by: Number7 on September 30, 2021, 10:51:14 AM
Alinsky tactics.
5. “Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
Also
13. "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. "
Sounds just like that fuckwad biden
Post by: nddons on September 30, 2021, 11:38:39 AM
It’s an embarrassment to the left that BLM is coming out against vaccine mandates. Blacks aren’t going along with their authoritarian groupthink and that’s not how they’re supposed to behave.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210930/5d190fab0f54b96f453dfa15fe2fbf6a.jpg)
Post by: nddons on September 30, 2021, 11:39:58 AM
Sounds just like that fuckwad bidenActually the entire left. This divide cannot be broached any longer.
Post by: Lucifer on September 30, 2021, 03:10:36 PM
Post by: Rush on September 30, 2021, 05:17:10 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 01, 2021, 05:51:06 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 01, 2021, 05:52:10 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 01, 2021, 05:58:07 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 01, 2021, 06:01:17 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 01, 2021, 12:37:21 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 01, 2021, 01:06:00 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 01, 2021, 01:11:05 PM
Enough with the debates.
Just go out and get it already.
It protects you, your family and everyone in the community.
It’s been scientifically, mathematically and statistically proven to make everyone safer.
The communities that get them are overwhelmingly safer.
The chances of side effects or accidents are so unbelievably small that it’s completely absurd to not get one already.
Quit being selfish,
quit arguing online, and
go purchase a firearm and learn to use it!
Post by: Lucifer on October 01, 2021, 01:41:57 PM
Post by: jb1842 on October 01, 2021, 01:51:09 PM
Follow the science? Absolutely!
Enough with the debates.
Just go out and get it already.
It protects you, your family and everyone in the community.
It’s been scientifically, mathematically and statistically proven to make everyone safer.
The communities that get them are overwhelmingly safer.
The chances of side effects or accidents are so unbelievably small that it’s completely absurd to not get one already.
Quit being selfish,
quit arguing online, and
go purchase a firearm and learn to use it!
Shelves are getting empty by me. And the a-hole store restricted primer sells to only 100 per person/per day.
Post by: Lucifer on October 02, 2021, 07:18:49 AM
Post by: nddons on October 02, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Exactly.
Post by: Rush on October 02, 2021, 07:36:04 AM
Interesting. A German creator. The Germans are a bit alert for creeping fascism.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 05:56:44 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 07:39:58 AM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/pure-evil-twitter-slaps-misleading-label-familys-obituary-young-37-year-old-mother-died-covid-vaccine/
Post by: bflynn on October 03, 2021, 11:15:50 AM
The Branch Covidians will be along shortly to tell us all this is just disinformation.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/pure-evil-twitter-slaps-misleading-label-familys-obituary-young-37-year-old-mother-died-covid-vaccine/
Just curious? Do you realize you made 8 of the 11 posts on this page? It kinda feels like your thread.
I assume the diagnosis and connection was made by a licensed physician. Especially during a time of grief, Twitter has no business allowing their unqualified censor to dispute the medical determination of a case. Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia is a rare but recognized risk of the AstraZeneca vaccine.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 11:28:22 AM
Just curious? Do you realize you made 8 of the 11 posts on this page? It kinda feels like your thread.
So you now don’t like the number of post I’ve made??
Maybe you need to head over to PoA and beg to get on the MC so you can flex that imaginary muscle or wield “the ban hammer”.
What’s with the inferiority complex??
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 03, 2021, 11:45:53 AM
Just curious? Do you realize you made 8 of the 11 posts on this page? It kinda feels like your thread.
I assume the diagnosis and connection was made by a licensed physician. Especially during a time of grief, Twitter has no business allowing their unqualified censor to dispute the medical determination of a case. Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia is a rare but recognized risk of the AstraZeneca vaccine.
I’m not exactly comforted by the apparent going definition of “rare.” Or even “extremely rare.” Thrombotic events have some of the higher numbers on VAERS. Of note as well is that this victim was literally forced to give up her service to her community if she didn’t take the shot. She chose to serve. And now is lost to her family, community and the world.
All to “protect” the vaccinated, who by admission of CDC can still contract and transmit Covid, but will have milder cases.
So this lovely woman died so others could have a milder case.
https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/09/17/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-9-10-2021/
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 11:50:09 AM
I’m not exactly comforted by the apparent going definition of “rare.” Or even “extremely rare.” Thrombotic events have some of the higher numbers on VAERS. Of note as well is that this victim was literally forced to give up her service to her community if she didn’t take the shot. She chose to serve. And now is lost to her family, community and the world.
All to “protect” the vaccinated, who by admission of CDC can still contract and transmit Covid, but will have milder cases.
So this lovely woman died so others could have a milder case.
https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/09/17/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-9-10-2021/
The Branch Covidians have no problem sacrificing others for their beloved vaccine. To them vaccine deaths, and injuries are meaningless. But a morbid obese person with several health issues due to their poor lifestyle choices, and that person dies, then we must all go into national mourning.
These Branch Covidians have departed reality and real science on their crusade.
Post by: nddons on October 03, 2021, 12:31:22 PM
I’m not exactly comforted by the apparent going definition of “rare.” Or even “extremely rare.” Thrombotic events have some of the higher numbers on VAERS. Of note as well is that this victim was literally forced to give up her service to her community if she didn’t take the shot. She chose to serve. And now is lost to her family, community and the world.This is my point exactly. I’m vaxed, but my wife and daughter aren’t. This coercion to get the vax is going to end badly for those in charge. I hope companies who are getting threatened with OSHA fines understand the Pandora’s box that they will be opening up if they choose to follow an unlawful order from federal agency.
All to “protect” the vaccinated, who by admission of CDC can still contract and transmit Covid, but will have milder cases.
So this lovely woman died so others could have a milder case.
https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/09/17/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-9-10-2021/
Post by: Rush on October 03, 2021, 12:54:40 PM
I’m not exactly comforted by the apparent going definition of “rare.” Or even “extremely rare.” Thrombotic events have some of the higher numbers on VAERS. Of note as well is that this victim was literally forced to give up her service to her community if she didn’t take the shot. She chose to serve. And now is lost to her family, community and the world.
All to “protect” the vaccinated, who by admission of CDC can still contract and transmit Covid, but will have milder cases.
So this lovely woman died so others could have a milder case.
https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/09/17/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-9-10-2021/
So from that link I got the risk of death from the vaccine. From the covid calculator linked here I calculated my own risk of death from covid the disease:
https://covid19risktools.com:8443/riskcalculator
The risk of death from the vaccine is 0.003197%
My risk of death from covid is 0.48%
Therefore, FOR ME, if I think these numbers are anywhere in the right ballpark, it makes sense for me to get the vaccine. My risk from the disease itself is significantly higher. However, it is still ridiculously low, I still have a 99.52% chance of surviving the disease. And if I got the disease and survived I would have better immunity against future variants. I should be completely free to decide.
A problem with that comparison is the vaccine risk looks like all ages average, and it may differ for example, is more risky for young males.
I am pretty sure the covid death risk is absolute risk, not case fatality but the site doesn't make that really clear. Absolute risk if I understand correctly means one's total risk over lifetime of dying of covid, not the risk of dying if you get it. That's a big difference and my risk of death if I get covid might be higher than 0.48%
If I am wrong and that is the case fatality rate, then my actual risk would be significantly lower. The calculator won't allow you to do children, which makes me suspicious of it. I plugged in a healthy 18 year old male and got 0.02% which still indicates a vaccine is preferable, but I don't really trust that result. I think they put a floor on that and the risk for children is significantly lower. I would NOT get a child vaccinated.
Whether or not the vaccine deaths are real, there is a very serious constitutional problem, and moral problem, forcing people to get this vaccine.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 01:16:21 PM
So from that link I got the risk of death from the vaccine. From the covid calculator linked here I calculated my own risk of death from covid the disease:
https://covid19risktools.com:8443/riskcalculator
The risk of death from the vaccine is 0.003197%
My risk of death from covid is 0.48%
Therefore, FOR ME, if I think these numbers are anywhere in the right ballpark, it makes sense for me to get the vaccine. My risk from the disease itself is significantly higher. However, it is still ridiculously low, I still have a 99.52% chance of surviving the disease. And if I got the disease and survived I would have better immunity against future variants. I should be completely free to decide.
A problem with that comparison is the vaccine risk looks like all ages average, and it may differ for example, is more risky for young males.
I am pretty sure the covid death risk is absolute risk, not case fatality but the site doesn't make that really clear. Absolute risk if I understand correctly means one's total risk over lifetime of dying of covid, not the risk of dying if you get it. That's a big difference and my risk of death if I get covid might be higher than 0.48%
If I am wrong and that is the case fatality rate, then my actual risk would be significantly lower. The calculator won't allow you to do children, which makes me suspicious of it. I plugged in a healthy 18 year old male and got 0.02% which still indicates a vaccine is preferable, but I don't really trust that result. I think they put a floor on that and the risk for children is significantly lower. I would NOT get a child vaccinated.
Whether or not the vaccine deaths are real, there is a very serious constitutional problem, and moral problem, forcing people to get this vaccine.
Here’s the problem:
We know the vaccine has risk. We know the vaccine can either kill or disable people. This is a known.
We also know that the government lies. Anyone who denies this is delusional. There is such a rabid push to get this vaccine injected into many as possible, our friendly government has no qualms in suppressing data to get what they want.
If you have a bowl of M&M’s in front of you, with one being laced with cyanide and four more being laced with poison that will make you ill and have permanent side effects, would you grab a handful and eat them because government said do it or else? After all, statistically you have a good chance of nothing happening.
The government has totally fucked up this vaccine with their lies, and now with their mandates. This is a slippery slope that will not end with a vaccine mandate.
I’m extremely healthy. I live a healthy lifestyle and want to keep my health. I’m not willing to risk that over a disease that has a 99.9% survival rate.
Post by: bflynn on October 03, 2021, 01:30:39 PM
So you now don’t like the number of post I’ve made??
Idle observation. You are frequently the sole participant/chief shit stirrer of threads.
Post by: Rush on October 03, 2021, 01:41:27 PM
Here’s the problem:
We know the vaccine has risk. We know the vaccine can either kill or disable people. This is a known.
We also know that the government lies. Anyone who denies this is delusional. There is such a rabid push to get this vaccine injected into many as possible, our friendly government has no qualms in suppressing data to get what they want.
If you have a bowl of M&M’s in front of you, with one being laced with cyanide and four more being laced with poison that will make you ill and have permanent side effects, would you grab a handful and eat them because government said do it or else? After all, statistically you have a good chance of nothing happening.
The government has totally fucked up this vaccine with their lies, and now with their mandates. This is a slippery slope that will not end with a vaccine mandate.
I’m extremely healthy. I live a healthy lifestyle and want to keep my health. I’m not willing to risk that over a disease that has a 99.9% survival rate.
I'm very open to the possibility all the numbers I used are lies. If not outright lies, extremely dubious guesses. Nevertheless, from what I perceive from all sources, I still believe I'm at greater risk from the disease than from the vaccine. I'm probably less healthy than you are though.
Post by: bflynn on October 03, 2021, 01:47:58 PM
I’m not exactly comforted by the apparent going definition of “rare.”
Rare in this situation is appropriate because the naturally occurring case rate is something like 3-4 cases per million people and less than 1 fatality. Out of the roughly 185 million people vaccinated, the expectation is fewer than 150 deaths total, including natural causes. To put that in context, 150 people die every year from overdosing on Tylenol.
Does the use of the word rare make better sense now?
BTW, Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia was primarily observed with the Astrazeneca vaccine, which is not approved in the US. The path seems to be a pre-existing condition, which in combination with a ramped up immune system, causes blood to start clotting. At extreme levels, it induces anemia as too many RBCs become part of clots. That's in addition to the stroke risks.
The triggering causes in the vaccine induced form is a vaccine, but it can be triggered by anything that causes a strong immune system reaction. This is a known side effect of many existing vaccines, including MMR, polio, and influenza.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 02:07:37 PM
Idle observation.
Here's my idle observation: You're a fuckin' moron.
You are frequently the sole participant/chief shit stirrer of threads.
Awwww.... Are your wittle feelings hurt big boy???
Post by: Rush on October 03, 2021, 02:10:16 PM
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid
Summary:
Case Fatality Rate: Number of deaths divided by number of CONFIRMED cases.
Infection Fatality Rate: Number of deaths divided by number of ACTUAL TOTAL cases. It includes people who die of the disease but were never tested for it. It is an unknown. It can only be estimated. But this is the true risk of death if you get the disease.
Crude Mortality Rate: Number of deaths divided by the entire population. This is the true overall starting risk of dying of covid because it includes whether you get the disease or not.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 02:13:30 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 03, 2021, 02:16:49 PM
Infection Fatality Rate: Number of deaths divided by number of ACTUAL TOTAL cases. It includes people who die of the disease but were never tested for it. It is an unknown. It can only be estimated. But this is the true risk of death if you get the disease.
Since we don't know the actual number of infections, and apparently we don't know how many died with the disease, and oh by the way, not a lot of autopsies being performed, how much trust do you have in the IFR?
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 02:21:32 PM
Post by: Number7 on October 03, 2021, 02:34:38 PM
Idle observation. You are frequently the sole participant/chief shit stirrer of threads.
The progressive poseur pukes his bullshit once more.
Sorry flynnee you are not the count of all knowledge you pretend to be.
And your bullshit government is god is as dishonest as your self image.
In other words, fuck off.
Post by: Rush on October 03, 2021, 03:10:48 PM
Since we don't know the actual number of infections, and apparently we don't know how many died with the disease, and oh by the way, not a lot of autopsies being performed, how much trust do you have in the IFR?
All the numbers are bogus. If you read the link, the Case Fatality Rate, which is what the media most often claims to be reporting, is a moving target and highly dependent on local conditions, demographics, testing rates and what day it is. Which renders most numbers we see almost meaningless. Only aggregate retrospective analysis well after this is past will give us anything close to truth, and we're nowhere near that yet. It's going to be a long time, if ever, to get there, because anything deviating from the political agenda is squashed.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 03:13:19 PM
All the numbers are bogus. If you read the link, the Case Fatality Rate, which is what the media most often claims to be reporting, is a moving target and highly dependent on local conditions, demographics, testing rates and what day it is. Which renders most numbers we see almost meaningless. Only aggregate retrospective analysis well after this is past will give us anything close to truth, and we're nowhere near that yet. It's going to be a long time, if ever, to get there, because anything deviating from the political agenda is squashed.
Lack of transparency by the government has rendered this a total clusterfuck. And they wonder why the citizens don't trust them.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 03, 2021, 04:59:30 PM
BTW, Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia was primarily observed with the Astrazeneca vaccine, which is not approved in the US. The path seems to be a pre-existing condition, which in combination with a ramped up immune system, causes blood to start clotting. At extreme levels, it induces anemia as too many RBCs become part of clots. That's in addition to the stroke risks.
Yes, the rate of that adverse event was estimated to be about 2-4 per million.
And a preprint by an Oxford group suggests that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may have a similar rate. https://osf.io/a9jdq/
This rate of an adverse side effect is hard to detect and also very hard for the average person to reason accurately about.
Post by: bflynn on October 03, 2021, 07:09:28 PM
Here's my idle observation: You're a fuckin' moron.
Touchy, touchy. You’d probably be more effective if you used logic and data rather than emotion.
Post by: bflynn on October 03, 2021, 07:14:30 PM
Yes, the rate of that adverse event was estimated to be about 2-4 per million.
And a preprint by an Oxford group suggests that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may have a similar rate. https://osf.io/a9jdq/
This rate of an adverse side effect is hard to detect and also very hard for the average person to reason accurately about.
Low rates of occurrence. It’s not a new thing and it would be weird to not see it.
Yet another chicken little story manipulating the emotional.
Post by: Lucifer on October 03, 2021, 07:32:15 PM
Touchy, touchy. You’d probably be more effective if you used logic and data rather than emotion.
You’re nothing more than a bloated fuckwad Flynn. You make yourself look foolish on whatever forum you post on.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 03, 2021, 08:48:41 PM
Low rates of occurrence. It’s not a new thing and it would be weird to not see it.Sadly it has become a political issue and objectivity has been lost.
Yet another chicken little story manipulating the emotional.
Governments attempting to mandate various interventions and treatments has raised the normal level of uncertainty in scientific knowledge into a matter of considerable importance to everyday people. And frankly, experience during this pandemic has taught me that the vast majority of citizens lack the training to be able to understand things like conditional probability, Bayes theorem, or even to get fractions versus percentages correct.
Aside from that, the typical and well documented human cognitive distortions regarding low probability events are at play.
In normal life, none of this should be a big issue because the average person relies on their chosen experts to help them interpret these more esoteric subjects. But once the government starts coercing people with mandates, it now becomes everyone’s problem.
Post by: bflynn on October 04, 2021, 02:02:47 AM
You’re nothing more than a bloated fuckwad Flynn. You make yourself look foolish on whatever forum you post on.
Unoriginal and comes across as being on tilt. Minimal points to you. Temper, temper.
Post by: bflynn on October 04, 2021, 02:09:04 AM
…experience during this pandemic has taught me that the vast majority of citizens lack the training to be able to understand things like conditional probability, Bayes theorem, or even to get fractions versus percentages correct.
It has taught me that many people are more emotional than logical about it and prone to manipulation by the “media.” Dubious sources can say anything and turn facts into lies. Once people buy into the lie, they refuse any other answer. Lots of people being played for clicks.
I think some of that could be education, some is just a willingness to hate.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 04, 2021, 04:20:45 AM
At my wife's reunion, which was held at "The Hangar" at Abert Whitted Airport, very few of the attendees wore masks. One gal had a mask on and would take it down to take a sip of her coffee and then put it back up. AS the evening wore on she finally left it off.
Post by: Lucifer on October 04, 2021, 05:23:05 AM
Unoriginal and comes across as being on tilt. Minimal points to you. Temper, temper.
OK, now you are resorting to playing childish. Same old same old. Do you ever try anything original?
Every village needs it's idiot, however here you and the perfesser fight over the title. Maybe you and him should alternate weeks?
Now, go back to your corner and play and let the adults have the conversation.
Post by: Lucifer on October 04, 2021, 05:42:31 AM
Post by: nddons on October 04, 2021, 08:40:47 AM
Interesting experience yesterday. Wife and I were in St. Petersburg this weekend for her 50th HS reunion. After leaving the hotel for the trip back yesterday, we stopped at X39 North Tampa Aero Park to get breakfast at the Happy Hangar Cafe. They have fifteen or so tables inside and maybe four picnic tables out front on the the deck. Place was filling up and a young couple with two young children came in. All but the youngest child were wearing masks, only people with masks in the whole place. The were shown to a table, last open one I believe, and given two high chairs for the kids. The mother and father proceeded to get out sanitizing wipes and wipe down the table and every surface on the two high chairs. Once that was complete, the husband went out front, came back in and they moved to an open picnic table outside. I guess the very thought of being in a dining room with the rest of us was too frightening for them. I truly felt sorry for them.To be fair, we wiped that shit down 30 years ago when my daughter was a toddler. I guess we were germaphobes before germaphobes were cool.
At my wife's reunion, which was held at "The Hangar" at Abert Whitted Airport, very few of the attendees wore masks. One gal had a mask on and would take it down to take a sip of her coffee and then put it back up. AS the evening wore on she finally left it off.
But I get it. It’s people of that age who are so brainwashed. Those were the ages when I saw people wearing masks on the beach. Not old people; the age of people with you g kids. You KNOW the parents are vaccinated, yet they must think if their kid gets Covid, it will be like a flesh eating virus or something.
Post by: Rush on October 04, 2021, 08:46:47 AM
To be fair, we wiped that shit down 30 years ago when my daughter was a toddler. I guess we were germaphobes before germaphobes were cool.
But I get it. It’s people of that age who are so brainwashed. Those were the ages when I saw people wearing masks on the beach. Not old people; the age of people with you g kids. You KNOW the parents are vaccinated, yet they must think if their kid gets Covid, it will be like a flesh eating virus or something.
I think the way it works is you’re supposed to obsessively wipe everything down with the first kid, a lot less with the second, and by the third you don’t notice or care if he eats directly off the floor.
Post by: ConfederateGeneral on October 04, 2021, 09:21:13 AM
Sadly it has become a political issue and objectivity has been lost.is this the same peter n steinmetz from poa who constantly complains about public masking policies? i remember you. seems you ‘n your ‘studies’ know more than the next guy. sorry, don’t buy your propaganda .
Governments attempting to mandate various interventions and treatments has raised the normal level of uncertainty in scientific knowledge into a matter of considerable importance to everyday people. And frankly, experience during this pandemic has taught me that the vast majority of citizens lack the training to be able to understand things like conditional probability, Bayes theorem, or even to get fractions versus percentages correct.
Aside from that, the typical and well documented human cognitive distortions regarding low probability events are at play.
In normal life, none of this should be a big issue because the average person relies on their chosen experts to help them interpret these more esoteric subjects. But once the government starts coercing people with mandates, it now becomes everyone’s problem.
-dean
Post by: nddons on October 04, 2021, 09:25:53 AM
I think the way it works is you’re supposed to obsessively wipe everything down with the first kid, a lot less with the second, and by the third you don’t notice or care if he eats directly off the floor.
She was our one and only, so…..And of course she chose the profession where she goes shoulder deep into cow’s poop chute, and has been covered with every bovine bodily fluid possible, so she’s pretty much immune to everything.
Post by: nddons on October 04, 2021, 09:30:57 AM
is this the same peter n steinmetz from poa who constantly complains about public masking policies? i remember you. seems you ‘n your ‘studies’ know more than the next guy. sorry, don’t buy your propaganda .“Propaganda” that masks don’t work? What, you don’t believe Fauci when he said they don’t do anything?
-dean
Post by: texasag93 on October 04, 2021, 09:54:30 AM
I think the way it works is you’re supposed to obsessively wipe everything down with the first kid, a lot less with the second, and by the third you don’t notice or care if he eats directly off the floor.
Am I a bad parent if I skipped to kid three treatment on the first kid?
Post by: Number7 on October 04, 2021, 10:18:56 AM
I think the way it works is you’re supposed to obsessively wipe everything down with the first kid, a lot less with the second, and by the third you don’t notice or care if he eats directly off the floor.
As I recall, we did wipe things down a bit too much but that tended to be because we were cleaning up AFTER our kids spit, drooled, coughed and generally made messes, not because we obsessed about everyone else.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 04, 2021, 10:40:44 AM
is this the same peter n steinmetz from poa who constantly complains about public masking policies? i remember you. seems you ‘n your ‘studies’ know more than the next guy. sorry, don’t buy your propaganda .C’est moi. Yes. That is an area where I have studied the peer reviewed literature in some depth. If you want to civilly discuss those, which I understand you may not be interested in, suggest starting another thread. Cheers, Peter
-dean
Post by: Rush on October 04, 2021, 10:46:46 AM
Am I a bad parent if I skipped to kid three treatment on the first kid?
Haha! No, you just knew from the start that it’s actually healthier for their immune system to let them wallow in dirt.
Post by: Rush on October 04, 2021, 10:47:52 AM
And of course she chose the profession where she goes shoulder deep into cow’s poop chute, and has been covered with every bovine bodily fluid possible, so she’s pretty much immune to everything.
Well there ya go. Kids have a way of undoing the way we try to raise them. I guess she had to get her germ exposure after all.
Post by: ConfederateGeneral on October 04, 2021, 12:06:40 PM
C’est moi. Yes. That is an area where I have studied the peer reviewed literature in some depth. If you want to civilly discuss those, which I understand you may not be interested in, suggest starting another thread. Cheers, Peterhave lurked on poa for awhile n’ seen your pseudo studies, they dont impress me at all. i know many docs from my naval days whod all disagree with you in a heartbeat. i disdain those who attempt to push their propaganda off on others who dont have the knowledge to know better. no need for new thread, ill tell ya the way it is here and now .
-dean
Post by: bflynn on October 04, 2021, 01:13:05 PM
OK, now you are resorting to playing childish. Same old same old. Do you ever try anything original?
I had to be childish to get down to your level. Actually, I have been above your level.
I’ve done plenty original. You didn’t like it.
Don’t hate because you you lost your temper.
Post by: bflynn on October 04, 2021, 01:14:16 PM
Haha! No, you just knew from the start that it’s actually healthier for their immune system to let them wallow in dirt.
Children have an amazing ability to stay healthy despite everything we do.
Post by: Lucifer on October 04, 2021, 01:29:31 PM
I had to be childish to get down to your level. Actually, I have been above your level.
I’ve done plenty original. You didn’t like it.
Don’t hate because you you lost your temper.
No loss of temper here. You're projecting again.
You're above no one's level. You're just the same dipshit you've always been.
Now go drown your sorrows in a couple dozen more Kryspy Kremes.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 04, 2021, 01:43:06 PM
have lurked on poa for awhile n’ seen your pseudo studies, they dont impress me at all. i know many docs from my naval days whod all disagree with you in a heartbeat. i disdain those who attempt to push their propaganda off on others who dont have the knowledge to know better. no need for new thread, ill tell ya the way it is here and now .Well Dean you seem to have some strong beliefs about it. You seem to be interested in relying on authorities and engaging in a bit of name calling about studies and making insinuations.
-dean
I don’t have much time or interest in those sort of things. So likely best if I politely acknowledge those are beliefs and the authorities you prefer.
Cheers,
Peter
Post by: ConfederateGeneral on October 04, 2021, 02:12:33 PM
Well Dean you seem to have some strong beliefs about it. You seem to be interested in relying on authorities and engaging in a bit of name calling about studies and making insinuations.what a load of crock if anyone has strong beliefs its certainly you sir. dont have much time or interest? the regularity of your history with it on poa that ive seen proves otherwise . cant count the # of times i have seen threads of yours banging your fists on the table demanding people give a clown like you some sort of clout for spouting off nonsensical ideas like your an expert. i ve seen plenty of individuals like yourself over the years, dont impress me one bit.
I don’t have much time or interest in those sort of things. So likely best if I politely acknowledge those are beliefs and the authorities you prefer.
Cheers,
Peter
Post by: texasag93 on October 04, 2021, 03:58:18 PM
what a load of crock if anyone has strong beliefs its certainly you sir. dont have much time or interest? the regularity of your history with it on poa that ive seen proves otherwise . cant count the # of times i have seen threads of yours banging your fists on the table demanding people give a clown like you some sort of clout for spouting off nonsensical ideas like your an expert. i ve seen plenty of individuals like yourself over the years, dont impress me one bit.
Where is my popcorn emoji?
Post by: Doc Holliday on October 04, 2021, 04:03:28 PM
Where is my popcorn emoji?
I have to wonder if ConfederateGeneral is Maj. Gen. Gideon Pillow?
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 04, 2021, 04:23:21 PM
I have to wonder if ConfederateGeneral is Maj. Gen. Gideon Pillow?Well there is my first block for name calling on PilotSpin. As always, my policy on unmoderated forums is that if you start name calling in replies to my posts, you are blocked.
Post by: Lucifer on October 04, 2021, 05:13:41 PM
Well there is my first block for name calling on PilotSpin. As always, my policy on unmoderated forums is that if you start name calling in replies to my posts, you are blocked.
Guess I’m a bit confused. Did you block Doc or the General??
Post by: bflynn on October 04, 2021, 05:31:37 PM
what a load of crock if anyone has strong beliefs its certainly you sir. dont have much time or interest? the regularity of your history with it on poa that ive seen proves otherwise . cant count the # of times i have seen threads of yours banging your fists on the table demanding people give a clown like you some sort of clout for spouting off nonsensical ideas like your an expert. i ve seen plenty of individuals like yourself over the years, dont impress me one bit.
What doesn’t impress me is attacking a person rather than what they say. Of course, that is kinda par for the course here, so welcome aboard.
Post by: Number7 on October 04, 2021, 05:35:34 PM
Well there is my first block for name calling on PilotSpin. As always, my policy on unmoderated forums is that if you start name calling in replies to my posts, you are blocked.
Does that make you a Martyr?
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 04, 2021, 05:53:15 PM
Does that make you a Martyr?No, don’t see the connection there. I follow that policy for two reasons. Firstly, I have never found further discussion with such posters to be interesting or informative. Secondly, such attacks are a form of a logical fallacy and normally the need to resort to such attacks indicates the speaker has lost the argument and knows it.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 04, 2021, 05:54:40 PM
Guess I’m a bit confused. Did you block Doc or the General??The person doing the name calling in response to my post was ConfederateGeneral.
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 04, 2021, 05:56:59 PM
I have to wonder if ConfederateGeneral is Maj. Gen. Gideon Pillow?Had to look that one up Doc
Post by: ConfederateGeneral on October 04, 2021, 06:10:35 PM
The person doing the name calling in response to my post was ConfederateGeneral.i presumed this guy was the same old peternsteinmetz from poa proves my point. guy can dish it out but he cant take opinions which do not align with his propaganda. now i see he leaves poa cause its too moderated but now comes here and cant handle it. need too grow some thicker skin if you want to play with men sir.
Post by: nddons on October 04, 2021, 06:54:02 PM
i presumed this guy was the same old peternsteinmetz from poa proves my point. guy can dish it out but he cant take opinions which do not align with his propaganda. now i see he leaves poa cause its too moderated but now comes here and cant handle it. need too grow some thicker skin if you want to play with men sir.Most people who are assholes here are assholes because of their fierce political views, societal views, or aviation views. You show up here like a fucking ankle-biting lap poodle with no known convictions other than being a mother fucking dickless asshole with no convictions at all.
Did you guys have a little circle jerk over at POA deciding on which asshole to send over here to stir up shit for no reason whatsoever? Grow the fuck up.
Post by: bflynn on October 04, 2021, 07:14:22 PM
i presumed this guy was the same old peternsteinmetz from poa proves my point. guy can dish it out but he cant take opinions which do not align with his propaganda. now i see he leaves poa cause its too moderated but now comes here and cant handle it. need too grow some thicker skin if you want to play with men sir.
Your point being that you’re a jerk and an asshole? Yes sir, well played.
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 04, 2021, 08:09:38 PM
Most people who are assholes here are assholes because of their fierce political views, societal views, or aviation views.
I prefer high wing over low wing.
There, I said it and if that makes me an asshole, well, so be it!
Post by: ConfederateGeneral on October 04, 2021, 08:32:44 PM
Most people who are assholes here are assholes because of their fierce political views, societal views, or aviation views. You show up here like a fucking ankle-biting lap poodle with no known convictions other than being a mother fucking dickless asshole with no convictions at all.its quite the charge when folks on the net use belligerent language as this/can tell you it doesnt make you sound convincing or tuffer makes you sound more like a moron on the net trying to act impressive. youd get your block knocked off real quick in the service as would many of you folks here. they wont put up with it . i havent posted on poa in prolly 4,5 yrs but i lurk daily. im wise enough to put 2 n 2 together .
Did you guys have a little circle jerk over at POA deciding on which asshole to send over here to stir up shit for no reason whatsoever? Grow the fuck up.
Post by: nddons on October 04, 2021, 08:50:30 PM
its quite the charge when folks on the net use belligerent language as this/can tell you it doesnt make you sound convincing or tuffer makes you sound more like a moron on the net trying to act impressive. youd get your block knocked off real quick in the service as would many of you folks here. they wont put up with it . i havent posted on poa in prolly 4,5 yrs but i lurk daily. im wise enough to put 2 n 2 together .In aviation I’m surrounded by retired military, of all branches. Not a single one has ever felt the need to be reminding anonymous strangers that they couldn’t cut it in the military, or how tough they think they were.
In addition, I’ve never seen an alleged VN-era vet type without caps and punctuation like a little snot-nosed millennial.
I’m thinking you’re just a poseur. Maybe stolen valor.
Post by: bflynn on October 05, 2021, 04:29:55 AM
its quite the charge when folks on the net use belligerent language as this/can tell you it doesnt make you sound convincing or tuffer makes you sound more like a moron on the net trying to act impressive. youd get your block knocked off real quick in the service as would many of you folks here. they wont put up with it . i havent posted on poa in prolly 4,5 yrs but i lurk daily. im wise enough to put 2 n 2 together .
What service were you in? Foul language was not common place, but it was used, frequently for comedy or entertainment value.
Nobody is getting their block knocked off anywhere in the military.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 05, 2021, 05:08:43 AM
Post by: bflynn on October 05, 2021, 05:11:08 AM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1445187023158009858
Oops. Someone will probably soon be an ex-scientist at Pfizer...
Post by: Rush on October 05, 2021, 05:38:41 AM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1445187023158009858
That’s what I’ve been saying. And that’s why you probably have better immunity against variants than vaccinated people.
It would have been far better if we had kept everything open, never had a vaccine at all, let the virus burn through the population and let it kill off the fat and the very old. The survivors would have better immunity and we wouldn’t have ruined the economy.
Post by: Number7 on October 05, 2021, 05:42:35 AM
I prefer high wing over low wing.
There, I said it and if that makes me an asshole, well, so be it!
Low wing is mostly useful for hot chicks to lay across looking hot.
High wing is for serious aviation.... but your experience may vary.
Post by: Little Joe on October 05, 2021, 05:46:57 AM
its quite the charge when folks on the net use belligerent language as this/can tell you it doesnt make you sound convincing or tuffer makes you sound more like a moron on the net trying to act impressive. youd get your block knocked off real quick in the service as would many of you folks here. they wont put up with it . i havent posted on poa in prolly 4,5 yrs but i lurk daily. im wise enough to put 2 n 2 together .He was replying to you in the manner and with the attitude that you demonstrated you are comfortable with. If you don't like it then . . .
Post by: Lucifer on October 05, 2021, 05:50:31 AM
That’s what I’ve been saying. And that’s why you probably have better immunity against variants than vaccinated people.
It would have been far better if we had kept everything open, never had a vaccine at all, let the virus burn through the population and let it kill off the fat and the very old. The survivors would have better immunity and we wouldn’t have ruined the economy.
Again, follow the money. The pharmaceuticals have made billions, and have now created additional billionaires. No need to pay for development or marketing, and have guaranteed sales. They are not going to give up this massive money tsunami, instead they will continue to push for more and more.
A recent article (I posted elsewhere here) showed the millions upon millions the pharmaceuticals were handing out to government in Australia to push their vaccines by mandate. You can bet our politicians and the "Big Guy" in our country are being handsomely rewarded as well.
Meanwhile, in Sweden:
(https://citizenfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/israel-sweden-covid-chart.jpg)
(https://citizenfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/sweden-covid-vaccine-chart.jpg)
Post by: Lucifer on October 05, 2021, 06:36:47 AM
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 05, 2021, 06:53:56 AM
Low wing is mostly useful for hot chicks to lay across looking hot.
High wing is for serious aviation.... but your experience may vary.
High wing is for looking at the ground.
Low wing is for looking at the sky.
;)
Post by: bflynn on October 05, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
But viewed in context, it looks more like they're going through another wave and not killing people by giving them booster shots as the graph suggests.
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5474.0;attach=2228)
Is it coincidence that the graph stopped a month ago, when it looked like it was still going up? The wave peaked after Sept 5 and is subsiding now, the number of deaths is dropping every day. I'm going to go with coincidence because the alternative is that someone purposefully lied about it to stir up more dissent about the vaccine.
After all, as of today, only about 1/3 of Israel's citizens have gotten the shot and they're still rolling it out. If the shot was the cause of death, the rate should continue going up, not taper off and decline, right?
Post by: bflynn on October 05, 2021, 09:13:04 AM
interesting that with the vaccinations, the number of deaths was so much smaller despite the number of cases being so much higher.
(http://www.pilotspin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5474.0;attach=2230)
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 05, 2021, 09:36:13 AM
High wing is for looking at the ground.High wings are for not seeing the runway when you turn base.
Low wing is for looking at the sky.Low wings are for seeing the runway when you turn base.
;)
;)
Post by: Number7 on October 05, 2021, 09:58:36 AM
High wings are for not seeing the runway when you turn base.
Low wings are for seeing the runway when you turn base.
;)
Don’t worry, the runway will be right where you left it after your turn.😇
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 05, 2021, 01:57:11 PM
interesting that with the vaccinations, the number of deaths was so much smaller despite the number of cases being so much higher.
Yes. I have not looked in detail at the rates themselves, but it seems fairly clear that the vaccine substantially reduces the likelihood of seriously bad outcomes, even if it does not prevent catching the illness, especially variants.
As I have speculated before, it may also be the case that those with serious adverse side-effects may be those whose genetics or underlying conditions would have resulted in a very bad outcome from catching Covid-19 otherwise. Essentially they are getting a mini controlled version of the illness itself.
Post by: Lucifer on October 05, 2021, 02:05:07 PM
As I have speculated before, it may also be the case that those with serious adverse side-effects may be those whose genetics or underlying conditions would have resulted in a very bad outcome from catching Covid-19 otherwise. Essentially they are getting a mini controlled version of the illness itself.
So we have a government that demands get vaccinated, or else. No accounting for the potential adverse reaction that could possibly be fatal, or have a life long disability.
The administration does not want to even discuss that aspect of it. Does it not seem odd that the push to inject everyone with no concern of what it may do to them? Even if the percentage is small, these are still people. When have we as a society decided that sacrificing a human life is worthwhile?
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 05, 2021, 02:21:43 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 05, 2021, 02:24:19 PM
I don’t personally think there is any justification given our current knowledge for vaccine mandates. This should be an individual decision as the risk / benefit analysis is close for many people and there is substantial uncertainty.
Thank you.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 05:30:52 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 05:34:56 AM
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 06:10:14 AM
I don’t personally think there is any justification given our current knowledge for vaccine mandates. This should be an individual decision as the risk / benefit analysis is close for many people and there is substantial uncertainty.
The problem with vaccine mandates is, at least in a nation like ours, they are completely ineffective. The vaccines on the other had appear to be doing what they were designed to do. I'm really impressed with the mRNA vaccines, they've really knocked it out of the park with new technology.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 06:14:13 AM
. I'm really impressed with the mRNA vaccines, they've really knocked it out of the park with new technology.
And those who are now permanently disabled, suffered severe side effects, and the families of the ones who died from the vaccine aren't as impressed as you are.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 06:17:21 AM
And those who are now permanently disabled, suffered severe side effects, and the families of the ones who died from the vaccine aren't as impressed as you are.
Show me the peer reviewed study showing this. Were this the case I promise it would be reported. Of course, I've asked you for this before and gotten naught but insults.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 06:31:40 AM
Show me the peer reviewed study showing this. Were this the case I promise it would be reported. Of course, I've asked you for this before and gotten naught but insults.
Every single time it's presented you do your typical bullshit and declare it not true because your masters tell you to look the other way.
Again, if you didn't have your head planted so far up your ass you could easily see this.
I had an associate die recently after his second vaccine shot. A healthy 51 year old, never a medical problem, two physicals every year and EKG. I had a family member (early 30's) rushed to the ER after his first shot due to an inflamed heart.
I know another gentleman who is now grounded (airline pilot) because the vaccine has screwed him up, and he may or may not get his medical back.
I know another person that now has Bell's Palsy due to the vaccine. He maybe permanently disfigured.
An MD friend of mine had lunch with me recently. His practice has now shifted to treating vaccine complications and injuries. He stated the hospital admissions are vaccine injured and fully vaccinated with covid, but there is heavy censorship going on.
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 06:34:48 AM
Show me the peer reviewed study showing this. Were this the case I promise it would be reported. Of course, I've asked you for this before and gotten naught but insults.
Be gone, Troll.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 07:04:25 AM
Every single time it's presented you do your typical bullshit and declare it not true because your masters tell you to look the other way.
Again, if you didn't have your head planted so far up your ass you could easily see this.
I had an associate die recently after his second vaccine shot. A healthy 51 year old, never a medical problem, two physicals every year and EKG.
First, I am genuinely sorry for your loss. What did he die of, and what makes you convinced it was caused by the vaccine?
I had a family member (early 30's) rushed to the ER after his first shot due to an inflamed heart.
The vaccines are known to cause a mild myocarditis in teenagers, never heard of someone that old getting it. Is he OK?
I know another gentleman who is now grounded (airline pilot) because the vaccine has screwed him up, and he may or may not get his medical back.
Screwed up how? Again, how do you know this is the vaccine at work?
I know another person that now has Bell's Palsy due to the vaccine. He maybe permanently disfigured.
Bell's sucks, but can be caused by lots of things. How do you know it was the vaccine?
An MD friend of mine had lunch with me recently. His practice has now shifted to treating vaccine complications and injuries. He stated the hospital admissions are vaccine injured and fully vaccinated with covid, but there is heavy censorship going on.
If you say so. I know scads of people who were vaccinated and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them at all.
I always ask for something that's gone through the peer-review process because there's lots of anecdotal stuff out there. At one point the J&J vaccine appeared to cause some blood clots in a half dozen women. Inoculation with the J&J vaccine was halted for a matter of weeks.
If complications were arising at the rate you're suggesting this would have hit the scientific literature. Hell, it would have hit the news outside of the right-wing blogs you seem to depend upon. So I ask what I hope are reasonable questions.
I had a student claiming the same as you. I asked of him the exact same question. He told me his grandmother died of a stroke at 71 after being vaccinated. I first offered condolences on the death of his grandmother (a lot of my students used to loose grandparents around exam time, doesn't seem to happen so much anymore). I then pointed out that strokes in folks in septuagenarians are not an entirely uncommon thing.
Like you I asked a couple more times for his basis in believing that vaccines were doing such amazing damage. Everyone I know if vaccinated, as are the majority of the students. Everyone I work with is vaccinated, you can't work at my facility without one. The only incidents I have heard of came form that student and you, and that student only gave me one example. So I ask.
You guys worry about "censorship". You'll never know just how hard that is to do in the US. But if journalists can't back up a story they won't print it. That isn't censorship, it's responsible journalism. The problem with all the blogs is those guys aren't journalists at all, so they don't have to adhere to the same standards.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 07:12:23 AM
First, I am genuinely sorry for your loss. What did he die of, and what makes you convinced it was caused by the vaccine?
The attending MD
The vaccines are known to cause a mild myocarditis in teenagers, never heard of someone that old getting it. Is he OK?
No he is not OK. They are not sure of how much damage has happened.
Screwed up how? Again, how do you know this is the vaccine at work?
Again, he is under medical care, and the MD's have determined this is vaccine related.
Bell's sucks, but can be caused by lots of things. How do you know it was the vaccine?
Again, determined by the attending MD's.
We can keep playing this game of "how do you know" and I can come back with "How do you know it's not?"
If you say so. I know scads of people who were vaccinated and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them at all.
There are. But then again, the vaccine is harming and killing. What's an acceptable number or percentage of disability or death to make the vaccine acceptable?
And with the mandate, how can we as a society mandate something that is possibly life altering or fatal?
I always ask for something that's gone through the peer-review process because there's lots of anecdotal stuff out there. At one point the J&J vaccine appeared to cause some blood clots in a half dozen women. Inoculation with the J&J vaccine was halted for a matter of weeks.
If complications were arising at the rate you're suggesting this would have hit the scientific literature. Hell, it would have hit the news outside of the right-wing blogs you seem to depend upon. So I ask what I hope are reasonable questions.
I had a student claiming the same as you. I asked of him the exact same question. He told me his grandmother died of a stroke at 71 after being vaccinated. I first offered condolences on the death of his grandmother (a lot of my students used to loose grandparents around exam time, doesn't seem to happen so much anymore). I then pointed out that strokes in folks in septuagenarians are not an entirely uncommon thing.
Like you I asked a couple more times for his basis in believing that vaccines were doing such amazing damage. Everyone I know if vaccinated, as are the majority of the students. Everyone I work with is vaccinated, you can't work at my facility without one. The only incidents I have heard of came form that student and you, and that student only gave me one example. So I ask.
You guys worry about "censorship". You'll never know just how hard that is to do in the US. But if journalists can't back up a story they won't print it. That isn't censorship, it's responsible journalism. The problem with all the blogs is those guys aren't journalists at all, so they don't have to adhere to the same standards.
Your head is jammed up your ass if you haven't seen the mass censorship going on in this country for the past 2 years.
Post by: Rush on October 06, 2021, 07:26:44 AM
The problem with vaccine mandates is, at least in a nation like ours, they are completely ineffective. The vaccines on the other had appear to be doing what they were designed to do. I'm really impressed with the mRNA vaccines, they've really knocked it out of the park with new technology.
If they are indeed doing what they were designed to, then they were designed to reduce the severity of disease but not stop it in its tracks nor eradicate it from the planet. And that’s exactly what they are doing.
However policies seem to have been designed as if eradicating it were the goal. Thus we were lied to. The public was led to believe, at first, that if we got vaccinated we wouldn’t have to wear masks. That was reversed when it came out that the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting the disease (it came out publicly: did the designers know from the start that would be the case? If so, Fauci, etc. knowingly lied.)
Likewise we were told if we got vaccinated we could open up the economy and get back to normal. But that didn’t happen, supposedly because the unvaccinated were getting sick. Then variants happened and the vaccinated were also being hospitalized. Did the designers not predict the rise of variants? Did they not know from the start that this virus and its vaccine would behave similarly to the flu? Meaning the vaccine would have to be endlessly tweaked to account for endless mutations?
If they knew this, then policy should have been, from the start, to keep the economy open and treat covid as endemic, with us permanently, and we have to get back to normal and live with it.
My problem isn’t with the vaccine or the intention of the scientists, my problem is with the lies and the political agendas (money and power).
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 07:34:25 AM
The attending MD
No he is not OK. They are not sure of how much damage has happened.
Again, he is under medical care, and the MD's have determined this is vaccine related.
Again, determined by the attending MD's.
We can keep playing this game of "how do you know" and I can come back with "How do you know it's not?"
There are. But then again, the vaccine is harming and killing. What's an acceptable number or percentage of disability or death to make the vaccine acceptable?
And with the mandate, how can we as a society mandate something that is possibly life altering or fatal?
Your head is jammed up your ass if you haven't seen the mass censorship going on in this country for the past 2 years.
mikey is a grand master at lying out his ass, stealing other people's writings and flat out making shit up.
When he claims there is no censorship going on in the USA he is trolling and repeating what he is ordered to repeat, at the risk of cancelation.
Mikey lies to himself as much as he lies to us.
It's pathetic, but it is him.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 07:43:38 AM
The attending MD
Again, he is under medical care, and the MD's have determined this is vaccine related.
Again, determined by the attending MD's.
Given the MDs you describe I am far from convinced. That an MD says something convinces me of little. We have one here who took an assault weapon to a crowded airport to make a point.
There are. But then again, the vaccine is harming and killing. What's an acceptable number or percentage of disability or death to make the vaccine acceptable?
A low number to be certain, and not in the quantities you're describing. Why do you see all that and not me? Again, I interact with and know a LOT of vaccinated people, since that includes everyone I work with over two academic departments. That's a lot of folks, not to mentionable my personal friends and neighbors. Haven't heard even a wisp of this.
And why isn't it on any mainstream news site? I don't see a hint of it on Fox News, which is where I go to check stores like this. The reason is simple, this isn't coming from any credible source, so no journalist can report on it. But those who publish blogs are responsible to no one, and can write whatever they want.
And with the mandate, how can we as a society mandate something that is possibly life altering or fatal?Because the virus is far, far worse.
Your head is jammed up your ass if you haven't seen the mass censorship going on in this country for the past 2 years.
Censorship by who for what using which mechanism?
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 07:47:34 AM
Given the MDs you describe I am far from convinced. That an MD says something convinces me of little. We have one here who took an assault weapon to a crowded airport to make a point.
Ah, back to the "I'm smarter than any MD I've never met" routine.
A low number to be certain, and not in the quantities you're describing. Why do you see all that and not me? Again, I interact with and know a LOT of vaccinated people, since that includes everyone I work with over two academic departments. That's a lot of folks, not to mentionable my personal friends and neighbors. Haven't heard even a wisp of this.
And why isn't it on any mainstream news site? I don't see a hint of it on Fox News, which is where I go to check stores like this. The reason is simple, this isn't coming from any credible source, so no journalist can report on it. But those who publish blogs are responsible to no one, and can write whatever they want.
You will deny anything that doesn't fit your narrative. This is why you are considered a fake scientist as you are ideologically driven, and make your decisions based on political narratives.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 07:50:57 AM
Because the virus is far, far worse.
So what's the acceptable death rate for this to meet your approval? What's the acceptable injury rate?
Real numbers please.
Covid has a 99.9% survivability rate.
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 07:59:52 AM
So what's the acceptable death rate for this to meet your approval? What's the acceptable injury rate?
Real numbers please.
Covid has a 99.9% survivability rate.
Plagiarism boy can't answer that any more than he can tell us the correct temperture for the earth.
It's al about his lies, and never about real hard facts.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 06, 2021, 08:03:55 AM
Show me the peer reviewed study showing this. Were this the case I promise it would be reported. Of course, I've asked you for this before and gotten naught but insults.
What, the ones that are derided by the Narrative writers? What "peer" is going to risk their funding and careers by going against the tide?
I have a large and diverse set of friends and acquaintances. I don't know anyone who had more than a bad cold from "covid", and I can count those on well less than the fingers on one hand.
In fact, if there was no social media, dictator governors, forced unemployment, forced face muzzling, and general media- generated hysteria, I wouldn't even know this "new disease" exists.
I do however, know first hand a few people that died unexpectedly shortly following their injection with the so-called vaccine.
Post by: Rush on October 06, 2021, 08:05:58 AM
First, I am genuinely sorry for your loss. What did he die of, and what makes you convinced it was caused by the vaccine?
The vaccines are known to cause a mild myocarditis in teenagers, never heard of someone that old getting it. Is he OK?
Screwed up how? Again, how do you know this is the vaccine at work?
Bell's sucks, but can be caused by lots of things. How do you know it was the vaccine?
If you say so. I know scads of people who were vaccinated and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them at all.
I always ask for something that's gone through the peer-review process because there's lots of anecdotal stuff out there. At one point the J&J vaccine appeared to cause some blood clots in a half dozen women. Inoculation with the J&J vaccine was halted for a matter of weeks.
If complications were arising at the rate you're suggesting this would have hit the scientific literature. Hell, it would have hit the news outside of the right-wing blogs you seem to depend upon. So I ask what I hope are reasonable questions.
I had a student claiming the same as you. I asked of him the exact same question. He told me his grandmother died of a stroke at 71 after being vaccinated. I first offered condolences on the death of his grandmother (a lot of my students used to loose grandparents around exam time, doesn't seem to happen so much anymore). I then pointed out that strokes in folks in septuagenarians are not an entirely uncommon thing.
Like you I asked a couple more times for his basis in believing that vaccines were doing such amazing damage. Everyone I know if vaccinated, as are the majority of the students. Everyone I work with is vaccinated, you can't work at my facility without one. The only incidents I have heard of came form that student and you, and that student only gave me one example. So I ask.
You guys worry about "censorship". You'll never know just how hard that is to do in the US. But if journalists can't back up a story they won't print it. That isn't censorship, it's responsible journalism. The problem with all the blogs is those guys aren't journalists at all, so they don't have to adhere to the same standards.
I’m with you until the bold part. That’s simply not at all true these days.
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 08:09:35 AM
I’m with you until the bold part. That’s simply not at all true these days.
mikey thinks lame stream journalists NEVER print anything unverified,
just like he believes that the infrastructure bill will not cost a cent, and that
bill clinton never inhaled, Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house,
and that everyone should be vaccinated because it will save you, not because
it's good for bribes paid to shit like his god obama.
He's just full of shit and keeps piling it deeper and stupider.
Post by: elwood blues on October 06, 2021, 09:49:14 AM
You guys worry about "censorship". You'll never know just how hard that is to do in the US. But if journalists can't back up a story they won't print it. That isn't censorship, it's responsible journalism.
You just convinced me that you're a teenaged girl.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 09:59:43 AM
Ah, back to the "I'm smarter than any MD I've never met" routine.
No, just the ones you describe sound less than credible in this regard.
You will deny anything that doesn't fit your narrative. This is why you are considered a fake scientist as you are ideologically driven, and make your decisions based on political narratives.
No, I make my decisions based on the Science. You make yours based on political narrative. If it doesn't conform to your preconceived notions, it gets binned as "fake news". Any questionable source has to be right so long as it conforms to what you think. That's why you mostly link blogs and tweets, you really haven't anything else.
I think Fox News is hysterical. They have Hannity and Carlson on every night dissing the vaccines, but everyone at Fox is vaccinated. Hypocrisy of the highest order. That said, I still believe their news because they may slant things, but they aren't in the habit of putting out complete falsehoods.
I keep asking for sources because you state outlandish things with no backup but "what you've heard". First rule of critical thinking is ask for the source.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 10:04:00 AM
So what's the acceptable death rate for this to meet your approval? What's the acceptable injury rate?
Real numbers please.
Covid has a 99.9% survivability rate.
COVID has had a 1% fatality rate since it first made its appearance, and that hasn't budged since. The rate at which people have "long COVID", that is they have long term symptoms that can be highly debilitating and life altering is somewhere between 10% and 30%, I can't get a read better than that. Of the folks I've known who got COVID two of them had this, neither could work for months.
The rate at which the vaccine causes problems I believe is 0.001%, based on numbers posited on this site.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 10:08:32 AM
No, just the ones you describe sound less than credible in this regard.
You know zero about any of these MD's. Nothing, nada.
No, I make my decisions based on the Science.
You're not a scientist. You're a lazy academic who could never cut it outside of the protective bubble of academia. This is why you are still an "associate professor". Even the university sees your subpar performance.
You make yours based on political narrative. If it doesn't conform to your preconceived notions, it gets binned as "fake news". Any questionable source has to be right so long as it conforms to what you think. That's why you mostly link blogs and tweets, you really haven't anything else.
You're projecting Mr. Plagiarism.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 10:09:25 AM
What, the ones that are derided by the Narrative writers? What "peer" is going to risk their funding and careers by going against the tide?
I did, I was successful, got a grant and a Nature paper. I've even described the findings and why they were important on this site. Scientists are people, they like the NEW. If I could really prove that the vaccines were doing what Lucifer claims I could publish in the top journals.
I have a large and diverse set of friends and acquaintances. I don't know anyone who had more than a bad cold from "covid", and I can count those on well less than the fingers on one hand.
I know a few people who got COVID. All of them were strung out for at least a week, my neighbors for two. All of them said they'd never been as sick. As I've said, two had prolonged symptoms that got in the way of their jobs.
In fact, if there was no social media, dictator governors, forced unemployment, forced face muzzling, and general media- generated hysteria, I wouldn't even know this "new disease" exists.
I don't think you'll believe it exists until you die of it. All of the physicians I know believe in it, and all have seen people die of it.
I do however, know first hand a few people that died unexpectedly shortly following their injection with the so-called vaccine.
Died how? Of what? The vaccines were initially given to the oldest Americans. Not a big surprise when some of them expired, old people do that. Lucifer is claiming the vaccines gained all his friends. What's your story?
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 10:09:51 AM
COVID has had a 1% fatality rate since it first made its appearance, and that hasn't budged since. The rate at which people have "long COVID", that is they have long term symptoms that can be highly debilitating and life altering is somewhere between 10% and 30%, I can't get a read better than that. Of the folks I've known who got COVID two of them had this, neither could work for months.
The rate at which the vaccine causes problems I believe is 0.001%, based on numbers posited on this site.
You didn't answer the question.
Once again, what is the acceptable number of vaccine deaths? What is the acceptable number of vaccine injuries?
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 10:14:09 AM
You didn't answer the question.
Once again, what is the acceptable number of vaccine deaths? What is the acceptable number of vaccine injuries?
Injuries and deaths from the vaccine should be appreciably less than those from the virus the vaccines are protecting against. I don't even have a good read on how much that should be. Again, were vaccine side effects as bad as you claim it would have hit the major news. Hell, Fox'd be all over it, and we scientists would be too. Vioxx turned out to be a bad deal and it got yanked.
So once again I will ask as nicely as I can what is the rate of vaccine injury and what is your source for that rate. I will also ask for a second time who is committing what censorship about using which mechanism. You guys go on and on about it, so I figure you know something.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 10:20:30 AM
Injuries and deaths from the vaccine should be appreciably less than those from the virus the vaccines are protecting against. I don't even have a good read on how much that should be. Again, were vaccine side effects as bad as you claim it would have hit the major news. Hell, Fox'd be all over it, and we scientists would be too. Vioxx turned out to be a bad deal and it got yanked.
OK, you still are unable to answer two very simple questions.
1) What is the acceptable number of vaccine deaths? 2) What is the acceptable number of vaccine injuries?
Post by: elwood blues on October 06, 2021, 10:27:05 AM
No, I make my decisions based on the Science. You make yours based on political narrative.
You got that backwards.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
OK, you still are unable to answer two very simple questions.
1) What is the acceptable number of vaccine deaths? 2) What is the acceptable number of vaccine injuries?
Dunno, above my pay grade. You have yet to tell me:
- What the rate of vaccine deaths actually is
- what the rate of vaccine injury actually is
- what your source is for determining that rate
- what is being censored
- who is doing said censoring (about which you've been going on)
- what mechanism is being used by said censoring agent
- what your source is that has informed you of all these censoring facts
Post by: Rush on October 06, 2021, 10:51:10 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 11:06:48 AM
Dunno, above my pay grade.
Ha! Oh you are such the scientist/expert!
LMAO!
Once again, the true colors emerge.
Post by: nddons on October 06, 2021, 11:09:02 AM
https://twitter.com/T_Ascendent/status/1445481528180412417Apartheid.
Post by: Rush on October 06, 2021, 11:25:05 AM
Apartheid.
Are they denying patients kidneys if they don’t get a flu shot?
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 11:48:07 AM
Dunno, above my pay grade. You have yet to tell me:
- What the rate of vaccine deaths actually is
- what the rate of vaccine injury actually is
- what your source is for determining that rate
- what is being censored
- who is doing said censoring (about which you've been going on)
- what mechanism is being used by said censoring agent
- what your source is that has informed you of all these censoring facts
Let's try a thought experiment, doctor demento,
You demand peer reviewed studies that refute Your claims
Then
You demand that we tell you what you claim your science based knowledge has already proven.
That makes you an idiot.
Congratulations.
Post by: nddons on October 06, 2021, 12:02:18 PM
First, I am genuinely sorry for your loss. What did he die of, and what makes you convinced it was caused by the vaccine?What a cloistered existence you live. I almost feel bad for you, but then I realized that it’s of your choosing.
The vaccines are known to cause a mild myocarditis in teenagers, never heard of someone that old getting it. Is he OK?
Screwed up how? Again, how do you know this is the vaccine at work?
Bell's sucks, but can be caused by lots of things. How do you know it was the vaccine?
If you say so. I know scads of people who were vaccinated and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them at all.
I always ask for something that's gone through the peer-review process because there's lots of anecdotal stuff out there. At one point the J&J vaccine appeared to cause some blood clots in a half dozen women. Inoculation with the J&J vaccine was halted for a matter of weeks.
If complications were arising at the rate you're suggesting this would have hit the scientific literature. Hell, it would have hit the news outside of the right-wing blogs you seem to depend upon. So I ask what I hope are reasonable questions.
I had a student claiming the same as you. I asked of him the exact same question. He told me his grandmother died of a stroke at 71 after being vaccinated. I first offered condolences on the death of his grandmother (a lot of my students used to loose grandparents around exam time, doesn't seem to happen so much anymore). I then pointed out that strokes in folks in septuagenarians are not an entirely uncommon thing.
Like you I asked a couple more times for his basis in believing that vaccines were doing such amazing damage. Everyone I know if vaccinated, as are the majority of the students. Everyone I work with is vaccinated, you can't work at my facility without one. The only incidents I have heard of came form that student and you, and that student only gave me one example. So I ask.
You guys worry about "censorship". You'll never know just how hard that is to do in the US. But if journalists can't back up a story they won't print it. That isn't censorship, it's responsible journalism. The problem with all the blogs is those guys aren't journalists at all, so they don't have to adhere to the same standards.
The university environment (especially one that blackmails their students to require vaccinations or they can’t complete their studies) is about as far from the real work as exists.
Get out. Talk to businesses. Talk to the people that make America work. Walk a machine shop. Take a vacation in Florida. You will see that there’s an entire world out there that is not cowering in fear and self-loathing. People actually getting on with life, worried less about a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate, and more about being able put food on their table, a roof over their heads, and protect their kids from government indoctrination.
Post by: Steingar on October 06, 2021, 12:37:35 PM
What a cloistered existence you live. I almost feel bad for you, but then I realized that it’s of your choosing.
The university environment (especially one that blackmails their students to require vaccinations or they can’t complete their studies) is about as far from the real work as exists.
Get out. Talk to businesses. Talk to the people that make America work. Walk a machine shop. Take a vacation in Florida. You will see that there’s an entire world out there that is not cowering in fear and self-loathing. People actually getting on with life, worried less about a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate, and more about being able put food on their table, a roof over their heads, and protect their kids from government indoctrination.
About 700,000 of them aren't doing that anymore. And I suspect millions are living with long COViD. Those numbers I don't know, and I doubt anyone else does either. But I bet it's big.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 06, 2021, 12:56:33 PM
About 700,000 of them aren't doing that anymore. And I suspect millions are living with long COViD. Those numbers I don't know, and I doubt anyone else does either. But I bet it's big.
Of course no one has died of anything else in the last ear and a half.
Current BS guesstimate out of CDC is around 100 million infections. That's a third of the population. One out of three. I don't know a single person who has lingering symptoms. Not bad enough to mention in daily life, and not bad enough to cause an unprecedented push for 100% mandatory inoculation .
Post by: Number7 on October 06, 2021, 01:01:02 PM
About 700,000 of them aren't doing that anymore. And I suspect millions are living with long COViD. Those numbers I don't know, and I doubt anyone else does either. But I bet it's big.
I see your vagina is hurting again.
Try vinegar. It might help with the crabs you're dealing with.
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 01:15:36 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/merck-charging-us-40-times-what-it-costs-make-govt-financed-covid-pill
Quote
Merck's new 'not Ivermectin' Covid-19 treatment, molnupiravir, costs $17.74 to produce - yet the company is charging the US government $712 for the treatment - a 40x markup, according to The Intercept, citing a report issued last week by the Harvard School of Public Health and King’s College Hospital in London.
The pill, originally developed using US government funds as a possible treatment for Venezuelan equine encephalitis, cut the risk of hospitalization and death in half in a randomized trial of 775 adults with mild/moderate Covid who were considered at high risk for disease due to comorbidities such as obesity, diabetes and heart disease. The trial was stopped early so the company could apply for and emergency use authorization (EUA). The drug did not benefit patients who were already hospitalized with severe disease.
News of the oral 'wonder drug' sent shares of Merck higher last week, as the company says it can deliver 10MM doses by the end of the year.
Clearly, the pill could bring in massive profits to Merck and its partner on the drug, Ridgeback Biotherapeutics - which licensed the drug from Emory University in 2020 and then sold the worldwide rights to the drug to Merck for a sum which has not been disclosed.
Meanwhile, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, a division of the Department of Defense, funded development of the drug by Emory University to the tune of $10 million between 2013 and 2015, according to nonprofit group Knowledge Ecology International discovered.
Post by: lowtimer on October 06, 2021, 03:19:26 PM
Follow. The. Money.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/merck-charging-us-40-times-what-it-costs-make-govt-financed-covid-pill
Another Equine medication, haven't we been told that's ridiculous?
Only $712 for a treatment of an already developed drug (for horses) , sounds reasonable. :o
Post by: Lucifer on October 06, 2021, 03:26:57 PM
Another Equine medication, haven't we been told that's ridiculous?
Only $712 for a treatment of an already developed drug (for horses) , sounds reasonable. :o
Follow. The. Money.
Post by: jb1842 on October 06, 2021, 04:04:08 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 05:41:53 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 09:18:05 AM
Follow. The. Money.
Post by: Steingar on October 07, 2021, 09:48:55 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-biontech-request-covid-vaccine-kids-fda-emergency-authorization
Follow. The. Money.
Yup, better to leave everyone unvaccinated. COVID is only a mild virus, no worse than a cold, and the vaccine maims and kills everyone who takes it.
And all those dead folks died in car accidents.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 09:55:44 AM
Yup, better to leave everyone unvaccinated. COVID is only a mild virus, no worse than a cold, and the vaccine maims and kills everyone who takes it.
And all those dead folks died in car accidents.
Perfesser: "Oh my Odin! Look at how many children have died of Covid!!! Look at how the hospitals are over run with children on ventilators!!! Children are dying in school yards!"
Post by: Number7 on October 07, 2021, 11:18:39 AM
Yup, better to leave everyone unvaccinated. COVID is only a mild virus, no worse than a cold, and the vaccine maims and kills everyone who takes it.
And all those dead folks died in car accidents.
Your attempt at sarcasm is as disingenuous as it is unintelligent.
Just keep babbling your leftist lies.
They make you look so stupid.
Post by: Lucifer on October 07, 2021, 12:58:09 PM
Quote
Medical professionals are facing threats to their careers and livelihoods for challenging COVID-19 orthodoxy, while an oft-censored Harvard Medical School professor is facing his latest Big Tech kerfuffle.
The University of California put psychiatrist and bioethics professor Aaron Kheriaty on "investigatory leave" after he sued the university system for refusing to recognize natural immunity such as his among exemptions to its COVID vaccine mandate.
Writing in the Wall Street Journal, Kheriaty had previously invoked the post-Nazi Nuremberg code in urging universities to abandon their mandates.
In his personal newsletter Wednesday, Kheriaty said he'll lose half his income while on so-called paid leave, because he's banned from "seeing my patients, supervising resident clinics, and engaging in weekend and holiday on-call duties."
His contract also bans him from working as a physician outside the UC system to recoup his revenue loss. "The University may be hoping this pressure will lead me to resign 'voluntarily,' which would remove grounds for my lawsuit," Kheriaty wrote.
UC's action came a day after a court refused to issue a preliminary injunction, functionally declaring a draw between each party's scientific arguments about different forms of immunity and what risk vaccination poses for the recovered.
"[M]erely drawing different conclusions based on consideration of scientific evidence does not render the Vaccine Policy arbitrary and irrational," U.S. District Judge James Selna wrote. Protecting "a campus community of more than half a million students, faculty, and staff from a deadly infectious disease ... far outweighs any harm Kheriaty may face" from choosing between vaccination or his job.
The only remaining defendant now is UC President Michael Drake, after Kheriaty agreed to drop the regents this week.
The professor disclosed he filed another natural immunity federal lawsuit last week, this time against California's vaccine mandate for health professionals. Just the News couldn't find that lawsuit in the docket, and Kheriaty didn't respond to a request to share it or explain how his investigatory leave may affect his UC lawsuit, such as a new retaliation claim.
Canadian physician Charles Hoffe has also lost half his income while under investigation for sharing government data on the COVID recovery rate with patients, who are mostly First Nations members, according to his lawyers at the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms (JCCF).
British Columbia's Interior Health Authority had already warned Hoffe to stop promoting "vaccine hesitancy" after it learned he had been telling colleagues about his patients' adverse reactions to the Moderna vaccine — one death and nine "disabling long-term side-effects."
A dozen European countries had pulled the AstraZeneca vaccine around that time for its association with blood clots, and Hoffe's own investigation found "strong evidence" his patients had the same problems. A provincial health official referred Hoffe to a vaccine safety specialist who dismissed his concerns as "coincidences," according to JCCF.
The government yanked Hoffe's emergency room privileges for the duration of its investigation in tandem with the province's medical regulator, the College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia. That body did not respond to a Just the News query.
'Surgeon General of QAnon'
UC San Francisco medical professor Vinay Prasad is facing accusations of anti-Semitism for sketching a scenario under which "democracy ends" due to COVID policy precedents.
A political progressive and vocal critic of evidence-thin interventions such as masking schoolchildren, Prasad warned that an unusually bad flu season combined with alarmist news coverage could provide the conditions for a right-wing president to enforce lockdowns with the military, take over social media and indefinitely suspend elections.
"When democratically elected systems transform into totalitarian regimes, the transition is subtle, stepwise, and involves a combination of pre-planned as well as serendipitous events," he wrote, citing Adolf Hitler's unexpected rise in Germany.
High-profile doctors on Twitter called the essay anti-Semitic and demanded a response from UCSF Health, where Prasad practices, according to screenshots he shared. A San Francisco OB/GYN and author of "The Vagina Bible" called it "an audition to be the Surgeon General of QAnon."
Tweet URL
"Its not a Holocaust analogy," Prasad tweeted. "They are lying to fuel the mob & tweet at my employer" to get him fired for his heterodoxy, because "this is the culture we have created in 2021."
Among those defending Prasad: former Harvard Medical School dean Jeffrey Flier. He tweeted that anyone arguing the essay showed anti-Semitism "is either profoundly dense or malevolent, seeking to harm" Prasad for their disagreements with him "or just enjoy the sick pile on experience."
Prasad didn't answer a request to share any blowback he had received at UCSF or from other affiliated organizations, and UCSF didn't answer whether Prasad was the subject of any review.
Harvard Med's Martin Kulldorff, a pioneer in vaccine safety and coauthor of the year-old Great Barrington Declaration, had his second tangle with LinkedIn over an article he wrote.
The Microsoft-owned professional social network removed two of his posts this summer as misinformation. He had said mandates feed vaccine hesitancy and noted Iceland's top epidemiologist recommended natural immunity to complement vaccination.
This time LinkedIn removed posts that shared Kulldorff's most recent article on why hospitals should welcome nurses with natural immunity rather than firing them, according to the Brownstone Institute, which published the article. Kulldorff's own posts also disappeared.
After a few hours, the network allegedly shifted to removing the preview image, headline and description of the Oct. 1 article, so that only the URL remained, likely reducing reader engagement.
Just the News confirmed Wednesday the link is still bare when shared on LinkedIn, with the disclaimer: "Cannot display preview. You can post as is, or try another link." LinkedIn didn't respond when asked why it continues throttling Kulldorff's new
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 09:23:56 AM
Post by: bflynn on October 08, 2021, 11:56:01 AM
Ha! Oh you are such the scientist/expert!
LMAO!
Once again, the true colors emerge.
Aren't you one of the guys bitching about scientists making policy? Now you're trying to bust his chops because he said "not my job"?
Post by: bflynn on October 08, 2021, 12:01:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6W2poue.jpg)
The question of whether or not the government can require a vaccine was decided about 100 years ago. At this point, the cow is already out of the barn, has wandered into the neighbor's field and had a couple sets of calves. Trying to slam the barn door is meaningless.
If you want to argue that you shouldn't be forced to have a vaccine, what's your call on MMR and Polio?
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 12:15:17 PM
Aren't you one of the guys bitching about scientists making policy? Now you're trying to bust his chops because he said "not my job"?
Projecting again?
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 12:19:38 PM
The question of whether or not the government can require a vaccine was decided about 100 years ago. At this point, the cow is already out of the barn, has wandered into the neighbor's field and had a couple sets of calves. Trying to slam the barn door is meaningless.
So you are now trying to claim something decided in the past can't be overturned?
If you want to argue that you shouldn't be forced to have a vaccine, what's your call on MMR and Polio?
We aren't discussing that, the subject under discussion is Covid, a virus with a 99.9% survival rate with effective drugs to treat it before it goes severe.
Post by: bflynn on October 08, 2021, 12:32:12 PM
Projecting again?
No, that's why there were question marks on my post. I'm asking because it isn't clear.
You don't complain about Fauci and other scientists setting public policy?
Post by: bflynn on October 08, 2021, 12:39:55 PM
So you are now trying to claim something decided in the past can't be overturned?
No, but public policy should be consistent. We either allow the government to mandate vaccines or we don't. I don't see it being changed. But if we're going to say that the government cannot force THIS vaccine, then are we supposed to make these decisions on a case by case basis?
We aren't discussing that, the subject under discussion is Covid, a virus with a 99.9% survival rate with effective drugs to treat it before it goes severe.
Maybe you didn't intend it, but that isn't what the image you posted said. If the argument is that the government cannot force us to take a medical treatment or vaccine, then I want to know about how all the other vaccines should be handled.
I don't care either way and I lean toward everyone doing what you want on all the vaccines, because that's a liberal stance.
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 12:49:50 PM
No, that's why there were question marks on my post. I'm asking because it isn't clear.
You don't complain about Fauci and other scientists setting public policy?
No, but public policy should be consistent. We either allow the government to mandate vaccines or we don't. I don't see it being changed. But if we're going to say that the government cannot force THIS vaccine, then are we supposed to make these decisions on a case by case basis?
Maybe you didn't intend it, but that isn't what the image you posted said. If the argument is that the government cannot force us to take a medical treatment or vaccine, then I want to know about how all the other vaccines should be handled.
I don't care either way and I lean toward everyone doing what you want on all the vaccines, because that's a liberal stance.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fgifimage.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F06%2Fswing-and-miss-gif-4.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 08, 2021, 02:55:39 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 03:26:31 PM
3 days of a fever and feeling tired. That was it.
He’s not vaccinated as this is his second time having it. He does however have natural immunity.
Post by: elwood blues on October 08, 2021, 05:37:31 PM
If you want to argue that you shouldn't be forced to have a vaccine, what's your call on MMR and Polio?
Also shouldn't be forced. It's risk v reward, so let the individual make that choice.
Polio is a debilitating disease. If one wants to take that risk, let them.
Covid has a 99%+ recovery. Again, let the individual assume the risk.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 08, 2021, 07:32:24 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 08, 2021, 07:45:01 PM
Post by: bflynn on October 08, 2021, 08:07:08 PM
Also shouldn't be forced. It's risk v reward, so let the individual make that choice.
Polio is a debilitating disease. If one wants to take that risk, let them.
Covid has a 99%+ recovery. Again, let the individual assume the risk.
Polio is largely gone from our country.
I lean toward agreeing, but then I recognize that breakthrough cases are possible with polio too. What you do to yourself is your business. I don’t know where we can draw the line on what you do to other people. There is a line somewhere between murder and breathing “their” air, but I have no idea where it is.
Post by: Little Joe on October 09, 2021, 03:50:40 AM
It's not a vaccine.Yes it is.
Post by: Little Joe on October 09, 2021, 03:51:57 AM
My older brother (67) had Covid for the second time last weekend.Didn't he have natural immunity after having Covid the first time? Perhaps natural immunity isn't all it's cracked up to be.
3 days of a fever and feeling tired. That was it.
He’s not vaccinated as this is his second time having it. He does however have natural immunity.
Post by: bflynn on October 09, 2021, 04:01:39 AM
Didn't he have natural immunity after having Covid the first time? Perhaps natural immunity isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Or, having a case isn’t what it’s cracked up to be. Measuring virus in the nose does not equate 1-1 with having an infection.
Post by: Number7 on October 09, 2021, 04:43:20 AM
Yes it is.
In your pathetic dreams it is.
The shot is nothing but a profit taking opportunity for big-pharma, that is then converted to bribes, no matter how much bullshit you sling.
IIRC, The swine flu 'vaccine' was pulled after something like 56 deaths.
The scamdemic 'scam shot is an utter failure,except to sooth the pussies who need both controlled and told what to think.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 09, 2021, 05:44:36 AM
Yes it is.
No it's not. It doesn't stop you from being infected or stop you from spreading.
Post by: Lucifer on October 09, 2021, 06:08:30 AM
Didn't he have natural immunity after having Covid the first time? Perhaps natural immunity isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Another failed attempt a humor?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 09, 2021, 06:16:56 AM
No it's not. It doesn't stop you from being infected or stop you from spreading.
That's not the definition of a vaccine
Post by: Rush on October 09, 2021, 06:20:31 AM
If it is only partially effective you might still get sick but have a milder case. In rare cases your immune system completely fails and you get very sick. Sometimes the reason this happens is the virus mutated to avoid your immune system more effectively. Other times it’s because you have a malfunctioning immune system because of an underlying condition.
Traditionally all vaccines worked this way by using a weakened or killed version of the virus, or part of the virus, or simply tiny amounts of the virus, or a similar virus (such as cowpox). In all cases these were natural. Either part or whole viral genes.
The covid vaccine is synthetic. That’s the big difference. They created a portion of the virus genetics artificially. But it works just like any other vaccine.
Those of you claiming it’s not a vaccine, is that why? Because it’s synthetic? Or is it just because you think it doesn’t work? It does work, although to a very disappointing degree compared to what we were hoping.
Being infected is not the same thing as being a “case”. Being infected means the virus invaded your cells no matter how few. No vaccine prevents infection. Indeed you have to be infected in order for your immune system to notice it’s there and go kill it. What the vaccine does is prevent you from becoming a case (symptomatic).
The government and the media have confused everything by calling all positive test results “cases”. This has rendered it impossible to ever determine the true efficacy of the vaccines let alone ever know the true case count and death rates.
If you’ve been vaccinated and have a positive covid test but have no symptoms then either it was a false positive, or the vaccine worked as intended: you were infected but your immune system defeated it.
Post by: elwood blues on October 09, 2021, 07:38:48 AM
Yes it is.
It's nothing more than a flu shot.
Post by: Lucifer on October 09, 2021, 07:40:22 AM
It's nothing more than a flu shot.
The flu shot is much safer.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 09, 2021, 07:48:20 AM
I’m perfectly comfortable putting it in quotes still. It’s definitely something. But not a vaccine as commonly understood.
https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2021/10/04/pfizer-confirms-covid-vaccinated-people-can-shed-spike-protein-and-can-harm-the-unvaccinated
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 09, 2021, 07:48:26 AM
That's not the definition of a vaccine
If you've taken this "vaccine", you should have no worry about encountering someone who didn't. It is unprecedented to mandate a vaccine for someone who has natural immunity to a disease with less than a 1% fatality rate for certain individuals, and approaching zero % for most people. If they can make you take this drug they can make you take anything. Wake the hell up.
Post by: Lucifer on October 09, 2021, 08:19:22 AM
If you've taken this "vaccine", you should have no worry about encountering someone who didn't. It is unprecedented to mandate a vaccine for someone who has natural immunity to a disease with less than a 1% fatality rate for certain individuals, and approaching zero % for most people. If they can make you take this drug they can make you take anything. Wake the hell up.
Another “fun fact”.
There are no federal laws requiring a vaccine. Many states allow citizens to opt out of vaccines.
The Biden mandates carry no force of law. Even the CDC regulations don’t have any force as they are not backed up with US code.
Biden’s Chief of Staff let the cat out of the bag by tweeting the administrations “work around” to use an EO since there are no laws. The work around is unconstitutional. Biden’s EO is unconstitutional.
The Biden Administration is attempting to use OSHA to draft regulations to enforce his unlawful EO. Once these regulations hit the street, they will be challenged in court.
These mandates are built on lies, misdirection and hoaxes.
Post by: nddons on October 09, 2021, 08:24:05 AM
If you've taken this "vaccine", you should have no worry about encountering someone who didn't. It is unprecedented to mandate a vaccine for someone who has natural immunity to a disease with less than a 1% fatality rate for certain individuals, and approaching zero % for most people. If they can make you take this drug they can make you take anything. Wake the hell up.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211009/84bd140d05761da693c4c61d2713e17a.jpg)
Post by: Lucifer on October 09, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211009/84bd140d05761da693c4c61d2713e17a.jpg)
The Nuremberg Codes spelled all of this out. Up until the stolen election and installation of the fascist Biden, our country has no laws dictating medical procedures against people’s will.
The silence of the republicans in all of this is deafening. The turtle has come out in favor of these EO’s. Tells you all you need to know.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 09, 2021, 09:36:41 AM
If you've taken this "vaccine", you should have no worry about encountering someone who didn't. It is unprecedented to mandate a vaccine for someone who has natural immunity to a disease with less than a 1% fatality rate for certain individuals, and approaching zero % for most people. If they can make you take this drug they can make you take anything. Wake the hell up.
Well, count me as someone who has been vaccinated. And count me as someone who is not afraid on encountering anyone who isn't vaccinated.
I hope people here on PS recognize that I've never supported the notion of being forced to be vaccinated. I've always supported the choice.
We lose credibility by making absurb claims that it isn't a vaccine.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on October 09, 2021, 09:43:40 AM
Well, count me as someone who has been vaccinated. And count me as someone who is not afraid on encountering anyone who isn't vaccinated.
I hope people here on PS recognize that I've never supported the notion of being forced to be vaccinated. I've always supported the choice.
We lose credibility by making absurb claims that it isn't a vaccine.
It's not a vaccine, it is a "pre treatment", like a statin. Do we force people to take a statin whether or or not they would benefit from it?
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 09, 2021, 09:46:34 AM
It's not a vaccine, it is a "pre treatment", like a statin. Do we force people to take a statin whether or or not they would benefit from it?
It meets the definition of a vaccine, but live in denial if you want.
Regardless ... I don't believe we should force people to take any treatment - vaccine, "pre treatment", whatever.
Edit: Let's imagine that you realize that it really is a vaccine, does that change your view of whether of not people can be forced to be vaccinated?
Conversely, if it actually isn't a vaccine, does that change anyone's view on being forced to be jabbed?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 09, 2021, 10:55:39 AM
Post by: Number7 on October 09, 2021, 11:45:18 AM
The Biden Administration is attempting to use OSHA to draft regulations to enforce his unlawful EO. Once these regulations hit the street, they will be challenged in court.
These mandates are built on lies, misdirection and hoaxes.
Isn't that a good explanation for democrats?... Lies, Misdirection and Hoaxes???
Post by: Little Joe on October 09, 2021, 11:55:25 AM
We are just hoping that she won't have a 1 legged, three eyed baby some day. But then again, we are really hoping that she doesn't have ANY babies. After all, we are approaching middle age.
Post by: Lucifer on October 09, 2021, 12:04:27 PM
My wife and I got the Covid booster "vaccine" this morning. So far, so good.
We are just hoping that she won't have a 1 legged, three eyed baby some day. But then again, we are really hoping that she doesn't have ANY babies. After all, we are approaching middle age.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTv17fZ3nslvjPgjUrRjGnmIWyHfAZXMs8AbA&usqp=CAU)
Post by: Little Joe on October 09, 2021, 12:07:11 PM
Why thank you sir.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTv17fZ3nslvjPgjUrRjGnmIWyHfAZXMs8AbA&usqp=CAU)
May I please have another?
Post by: Number7 on October 09, 2021, 12:30:38 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTv17fZ3nslvjPgjUrRjGnmIWyHfAZXMs8AbA&usqp=CAU)
Here you go...
Post by: Lucifer on October 09, 2021, 03:07:03 PM
Post by: texasag93 on October 09, 2021, 04:00:45 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/BillyPrempeh/status/1446114590220165139?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1446114590220165139%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2021%2F10%2Fmust-see-veteran-congressional-candidate-torches-racist-vaccine-mandates-viral-video%2F
I passed this on.
I like to see people think for themselves.
Post by: Number7 on October 10, 2021, 06:50:19 AM
The entire charade is the biggest lie in the history of the USA.
The answer is:
Because everything they've said so far is a LIE designed to strip citizens of our rights and enrich fucking democrats and big pharma, walmart and amazon.
So fuck you all that babble about the fake vaccine and mask bullshit.
And fuck all of you that make up lies trying to rationalize the bullshit scam.
Post by: Rush on October 10, 2021, 06:59:35 AM
So... Why is it that Dr. Anthony Quackenheimer Fauci is discouraging families from gathering for Chrsitmas if the scam vaccine is so effective???
The entire charade is the biggest lie in the history of the USA.
The answer is:
Because everything they've said so far is a LIE designed to strip citizens of our rights and enrich fucking democrats and big pharma, walmart and amazon.
So fuck you all that babble about the fake vaccine and mask bullshit.
And fuck all of you that make up lies trying to rationalize the bullshit scam.
I don’t check FakeBook that often but I did this morning to see one of my ex neighbors post that the state fair WILL be held as usual. You should see the string of comments. “What’s wrong with them?”, “Well I hope everybody wears a mask.” “I’m going to be careful and just not go.” And so on.
I cannot BELIEVE these are Americans. Land of the free home of the brave.
Post by: Old Crow on October 10, 2021, 07:23:14 AM
We are becoming neither.
I cannot BELIEVE these are Americans. Land of the free home of the brave.
Post by: Lucifer on October 10, 2021, 07:42:43 AM
Case in point, some academics are cheering the fascist Biden for his authoritarian regime. Remember, Biden wants “free college” for everyone. And these academics believe that’s great. What they haven’t figured out is free equals severely reduced pay for them. When that hits, then their enthusiasm fades away.
“There’s a huge club in government, and you ain’t invited!”- George Carlin.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 10, 2021, 08:28:42 AM
Post by: Rush on October 10, 2021, 09:53:57 AM
So folks wonder why other may be hesitant to get vaccinated, meanwhile opportunities abound. ::)
Wow! That’s real!
https://www.brproud.com/news/local-news/expungement-event-to-be-held-at-mlk-community-center-on-oct-9/
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 10, 2021, 11:06:10 AM
What are your ideas?
Post by: Lucifer on October 10, 2021, 11:22:30 AM
Let's offer what things might be nice along the vein of mandates. Why not force companies to fire anyone that has a BMI over 30 or how about anyone that smokes?
What are your ideas?
More people die from obesity and cancer than Covid.
Why not?
Post by: Rush on October 10, 2021, 11:54:07 AM
More people die from obesity and cancer than Covid.
Why not?
WAY more people die of obesity alone, yet we do the opposite of what we’re doing to the unvaccinated. They are a protected minority. Fire someone because they’re fat and see just how fast you’re hauled into court and crucified in the media.
Post by: Number7 on October 10, 2021, 12:05:21 PM
Now the party of racism, bigotry and hate can just keep stealing our rights and forcing us to comply to things that get the their bribes and young children to fuck on private islands.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 10, 2021, 02:07:59 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 10, 2021, 02:59:25 PM
Quote
This is beyond disturbing. According to Dr Pierre Kory, MD, MPA, and verified by the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), 100 to 200 congressional reps and/or staff and families who contracted COVID-19 were treated with the Front Line Ivermectin protocol. [LINK and LINK]
(https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/congress-and-ivm.jpg)
This successful treatment is happening at the same time many congressional representatives are playing politics in favor of the vaccine; downplaying the effective anti-viral treatment and therapeutic approach with Ivermectin; and taking action to block regular American citizens from seeking similar treatment with Ivermectin.
Congress can seek treatment with a medication they simultaneously deny to others? This is well beyond a “scandal”, and needs to be investigated quickly.
Additionally, as Merck has announced a new and similar anti-viral drug called Molnupiravir, two trial studies in India have requested to exit the trials. Apparently the issue surrounds the new drug providing no benefit once a patient is moderately ill and hospitalized (READ MORE, Reuters Link).
Post by: Lucifer on October 11, 2021, 06:23:46 AM
Post by: Little Joe on October 11, 2021, 09:21:31 AM
(https://resources.arcamax.com/newspics/216/21661/2166183.gif)I have the same philosophy as Mallard. I'm pro-vaccine, but anti-VAX-mandate.
That said, I can't help but chuckle when an outspoken anti-vaxer gets a serious case of the virus. But I was still very sad when my friend, Marc Bernier, an outspoken anti-vaxer died FROM Covid.
As for masks, I don't wear one unless I am forced to, and I am VERY anti-mask-mandate.
Post by: Rush on October 11, 2021, 09:54:37 AM
I have the same philosophy as Mallard. I'm pro-vaccine, but anti-VAX-mandate.
That said, I can't help but chuckle when an outspoken anti-vaxer gets a serious case of the virus. But I was still very sad when my friend, Marc Bernier, an outspoken anti-vaxer died FROM Covid.
As for masks, I don't wear one unless I am forced to, and I am VERY anti-mask-mandate.
I’m the same way. Vehemently anti-mandate. But I’m only pro-vaccine from one perspective, the microcosm perspective. That means I think it works for an individual to reduce the risk of them dying from covid. From an overall macrocosmic perspective I’m against it. I think humanity as a whole would have been much better off if we had no covid vaccine and no lockdowns, etc. The virus would have quickly gone through the population and everybody would have natural immunity which is superior. The weak would have been culled and the virus would evolve down into nothing more than a regular flu which it basically is getting there, just a lot more slowly than if we’d let it have free reign. Most important our economy wouldn’t be in shambles (unless Biden still got in office, he’s managing to screw it all up above what covid is doing, like canceling the oil pipeline, overspending, suggesting high taxes etc.)
Post by: bflynn on October 12, 2021, 05:22:11 AM
And now this...
Breaking news...health care is no longer a basic human right
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2021, 05:36:03 AM
Breaking news...health care is no longer a basic human right unless you are fully obedient to the masters and compliant with all orders including getting vaccinated, and have publicly denounced DJT and, if white, admitted you are a racist, or, if black, submitted proof you haven’t abandoned the Democrat plantation.
FIFY
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 12, 2021, 05:59:40 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/ron-johnson-no-fda-approved-covid-vaccine?fbclid=IwAR1Ixt5SHW_WCc4fuHZrnIqlNXZB7a0m5ZVE1Uus11zPlPNYDp40-Is9c80
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 12, 2021, 06:00:17 AM
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/10/12/go-fund-me-takes-down-fundraising-campaign-for-litigation-over-vaccine-mandate/
Post by: Lucifer on October 12, 2021, 07:47:36 AM
Quote
October 12, 2021
Why Are So Many People Still Dying from COVID?
By Brian C.Joondeph, MD
COVID has been with us for more than a year and a half, along with masks and distancing, since last year, and vaccine mandates, passports, and booster shots have been added. How many of us thought life would be back to normal by now? Or if not back to normal, on an improving trajectory?
President Trump told us numerous times last year that it would soon be over. President Biden, as a candidate, promised an end to COVID. Promises, promises. From Biden’s campaign website: “Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have a seven-point plan to beat COVID-19 and get our country back on track.” Whether Biden had a 7- or 17-point plan, America is not back on track.
Biden promised to fix every ill that he blamed on Trump: “Joe Biden has been laser-focused on the threat that COVID-19 has posed to our nation.”
How is that going? Has Biden vanquished COVID? Or is it just like Afghanistan, the border and illegal immigration, inflation, unemployment, energy dependency, and everything else touched by the Scranton Kid with hairy legs -- quickly turning into a flaming bag of dog excrement?
This news story, barely covered by Democrat propagandists, also known as the media, revealed the harsh reality that Biden has certainly not beaten COVID: “U.S. deaths from virus in 2021 surpass 2020 total.” This is based on Johns Hopkins data.
Why are things getting worse?
Last year was the bad year. Remember death count tickers on Fox News and CNN, excitedly chronicling each additional COVID fatality? There was hysteria about ventilator shortages and hospital ICUs busting at the seams, requiring makeshift hospitals and U.S. Navy hospital ships that Trump provided and that went mostly unused.
The media criticized every Trump word, tweet, and initiative. Each death was blamed on Trump. The scarf queen, Dr. Deborah Birx, famously appearing with Trump and Dr. Anthony Fauci at the daily press briefings last year, told left-wing Rolling Stone that Trump was “responsible for hundreds of thousands dead.” Yet she was advising Trump and takes no responsibility for that.
Yet more are dead under the steady seasoned hand of Joe Biden, and the year is only three quarters over. How can this be?
YouTube screen grab
It is not just COVID deaths that are up but cases are too. Note this CBS News headline, “There were nearly 300% more new COVID cases on average this Labor Day than last year.” No explanation is offered other than to blame the unvaccinated, the new lepers of modern-day society.
More than three out of four American adults are now vaccinated and many of those unvaccinated have natural immunity from previous infection. A year ago, no one was vaccinated and far fewer had natural immunity, yet cases and deaths are up over a year ago. And it’s solely due to the remaining unvaccinated?
Could the vaccines not be working as expected? The CDC said: “COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective.” These are relative terms. VAERS data found 16,310 deaths associated with COVID vaccination. Note I did not say caused, as association is not causation. Unless used in the opposite way as in Colorado where gunshot fatalities were counted as COVID deaths.
Are more people dying now from COVID, the vaccines, or both? It is challenging to separate these out as the CDC does not consider one vaccinated until at least two weeks after the final vaccine dose, which in the case of Pfizer or Moderna is the second dose.
If most vaccine reactions, even the fatal ones, occur within two weeks of the shot, these individuals would be considered unvaccinated and their deaths attributed to natural causes, falsely lowering the vaccine-associated death counts.
Is the COVID PCR test too sensitive, with upwards of 90 percent false positives as explained by the New York Times last year? But this test has not changed from last year to this year and would not explain the increase in fatalities.
The most concerning possibility is that the vaccines are not providing recipients with true immunity, giving us a false sense of security that these vaccines prevent severe illness and death as effectively as advertised. We know from CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky that the vaccines don’t prevent infection or transmission, but we are told they reduce the risk of hospitalization and death. How strong is that reduction? Seat belts and bicycle helmets also reduce the risk of severe injury and death, but they don’t prevent it completely.
On the science side, the vaccines create antibodies to the COVID spike protein but not the other viral proteins including envelope, membrane, and nucleocapsid. This is analogous to having four doors in your home but only locking one of them. That’s great if the burglar tries to enter through the locked door, but what if they choose an unlocked door?
This is the advantage of natural immunity where all doors are locked, not just the spike protein door. If the spike protein mutates, then even the vaccine-induced antibodies may no longer be effective.
The vaccines were developed targeting the original Wuhan coronavirus. If that virus is largely gone, replaced by the delta, lambda, or future variants, will the vaccine-induced antibodies effectively target those variants?
Countries or states with high vaccination rates that are now experiencing a surge in cases, higher than last year, may answer that question. As Newsweek reported, “New England has highest vaccination rates in US yet states seeing COVID cases surge.”
I must add the standard and necessary disclaimer that I am not anti-vaccine, having been personally vaccinated in 2020. Nor am I offering medical advice. Instead, I’ll emphasize that the current vaccines reportedly reduce the risk of severe COVID illness – hospitalization and death – and for those at highest risk, make good sense, in conjunction with consultation with one’s own physician. Sorry, but this is a necessary paragraph.
Regardless of which factors are causing the uptick in COVID deaths, something clearly is not working, whether masks, distancing, vaccines, or other measures. Instead of doubling down on what appears not to be working, where is the thoughtful questioning and analysis by the medical establishment, public health agencies, and the media?
This pandemic is new territory, and the public would be quite understanding of “I don’t know” from the medical community rather than insisting it is their way or the highway, even in the face of seemingly contradictory information.
Science is always evolving with new ideas and hypotheses, casting out discredited ideas and bringing in fresh ones as new data emerges. It seems with COVID we are riding a one-speed bicycle, unable to adapt to an uphill or downhill grade. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
Just look at therapeutics. Japan and India introduced ivermectin as an early outpatient treatment option and their COVID cases promptly plummeted. Members of Congress and their staffs have reportedly been taking hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin for COVID while trashing the drugs publicly as dangerous or horse paste. Is this following the science?
Meanwhile, people are still dying of COVID, and the death counts are increasing rather than decreasing as we approach two years of the pandemic. Instead of getting answers we are shamed or canceled for asking what seem to be obvious questions.
History will be the ultimate judge and may not view the world’s medical response to COVID in a favorable light.
Brian C. Joondeph, M.D., is a physician and writer. On Twitter and FreeAtlantis as @retdoc.
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2021, 08:16:00 AM
Quote
the public would be quite understanding of “I don’t know” from the medical community rather than insisting it is their way or the highway, even in the face of seemingly contradictory information.
THIS. I have never been more disappointed in the medical community.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 12, 2021, 08:16:13 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 12, 2021, 08:25:20 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 12, 2021, 08:26:26 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 12, 2021, 08:30:38 AM
The next "Build Back Better" deal will be starving people. "Be compliant and we will let you eat".
Has everyone had enough yet?
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2021, 08:31:38 AM
Out running errands this morning and heard a commercial from one of the Government alphabet soup organizations. The essences was, get vaccinated because cases are out of control amongst out kids. It was pure scare. Came home and went to the CDC site.....
I’ll tell you exactly what’s going on. See the huge spike in ages 18 to 29? Those are college students who are required to be tested for covid every two weeks. Those “cases” include all positive results including false positives plus those who might be infected but show no symptoms. That is NOT a “case” but media and the CDC obfuscate this fact.
All the other age groups would have similar “cases” if they were all tested every two weeks.
Post by: Lucifer on October 12, 2021, 08:35:27 AM
I’ll tell you exactly what’s going on. See the huge spike in ages 18 to 29? Those are college students who are required to be tested for covid every two weeks. Those “cases” include all positive results including false positives plus those who might be infected but show no symptoms. That is NOT a “case” but media and the CDC obfuscate this fact.
All the other age groups would have similar “cases” if they were all tested every two weeks.
Yep.
"Figures lie and Liars figure".
Truth is covid is dying down, so the communist and their media arm are desperate to keep their virus and mandates going. Big Pharma has enjoyed massive profits and are now panicking the big payday will be slowing down as well.
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2021, 08:37:18 AM
Post by: Little Joe on October 12, 2021, 02:13:13 PM
Out running errands this morning and heard a commercial from one of the Government alphabet soup organizations. The essences was, get vaccinated because cases are out of control amongst out kids. It was pure scare. Came home and went to the CDC site.....I remembered reading an NYT article that talked about some huge numbers of kids getting Covid.
Then this:
https://news.yahoo.com/york-times-retracts-massive-exaggeration-163906675.html
Quote
Isaac Schorr
Fri, October 8, 2021, 12:39 PM·
In an article published by New York Times reporter Apoorva Mandavilli on Wednesday, Times readers were told that “nearly 900,000 children have been hospitalized with COVID-19 since the pandemic began.”
A correction issued on Thursday notes that the correct number is 63,000 between August 2020 and October 2021, which means Mandavilli exaggerated the number of child hospitalizations by 837,000 cases.
Post by: Steingar on October 13, 2021, 07:05:25 AM
More Aldi pictures...Nice to know Aldi's sucks in Georgia as much as it does here. Regular grocers aren't having so many problems.
Post by: Little Joe on October 13, 2021, 07:54:50 AM
Nice to know Aldi's sucks in Georgia as much as it does here. Regular grocers aren't having so many problems.Aldi's niche isn't having all things for all people all the time. Aldi's niche is having decent quality stuff, cheap. Even regular grocers have amazingly thin profit margins considering their prices are higher than Aldis. I don't shop Aldis because they don't have the selection I want. I have friends that go there regularly to buy what they can and save money, then resent having to go to Publix and pay Publix prices for everything else.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 13, 2021, 08:29:04 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 13, 2021, 08:29:32 AM
Post by: nddons on October 13, 2021, 08:31:22 AM
Aldi's niche isn't having all things for all people all the time. Aldi's niche is having decent quality stuff, cheap. Even regular grocers have amazingly thin profit margins considering their prices are higher than Aldis. I don't shop Aldis because they don't have the selection I want. I have friends that go there regularly to buy what they can and save money, then resent having to go to Publix and pay Publix prices for everything else.Aldi’s has 10,000 stores and is headquartered in Germany.
Publix is employee owned and has 1,281 stores. I’ll shop at the little guy US owned store, even if it isn’t so little like Publix.
Everyone is shocked when a Walmart comes to town and destroys Main Street companies, and local grocery store chains. Yet they continue to buy their shit because they can save $0.50 on a can of deodorant.
Americans are our own worst enemy.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 13, 2021, 08:33:18 AM
Currently waiting to see if they rework to SS formula so we don't get an increase commensurate with the inflation we're seeing.
Post by: Lucifer on October 14, 2021, 06:45:57 AM
Quote
The Worst Is Yet To Come From Biden’s Vaccine Coercion
The vaccines do not preclude infection or transmission. As a result, we are forcing people to choose between their livelihoods and a freedom-robbing vaccination mandate with no rationale.
By Ron Johnson
OCTOBER 14, 2021
Like President Biden, who said in December 2020, “I don’t think it should be mandatory, I wouldn’t demand it be mandatory,” I was opposed to COVID-19 vaccine mandates from the start. Unlike President Biden, I haven’t flip-flopped.
In fact, my opposition to mandates is growing stronger with each new anecdote and piece of information that shows not only how futile they are but how devastating these self-inflicted harms will be. President Biden, his administration, corporate media, and social media are denying three realities:
1. The effectiveness of natural immunity and how medically unnecessary it is for the previously infected to get vaccinated.
2. The fact that fully vaccinated individuals are getting infected and transmitting COVID-19. Unfortunately, some are also becoming seriously ill, being hospitalized, and dying. This is not, as President Biden repeatedly insists, a pandemic solely of the unvaccinated.
3. Vaccine injuries, including death, are occurring at far higher numbers than health authorities want to admit.
“Established in 1990, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a national early warning system to detect possible safety problems in U.S.-licensed vaccines,” says its government website. As of October 1, 2021, VAERS has reported 16,310 deaths after COVID shots so far — with 5,326 (33 percent) occurring on Day 0, 1, or 2 after vaccination — and 778,685 total adverse events.
The two main criticisms of discussing this data from VAERS are that it does not prove the COVID injections caused these injuries (although these numbers should still alarm) and that VAERS significantly underreports vaccine injuries (which should increase alarm).
Those of us who attempt to inform the public of these three realities are not only the targets of vilification, we are also magnets for people who desperately want their stories to be told so others can avoid harm. Over the last few weeks, the stories have become more numerous and more alarming.
Three areas of particular urgency involve health care, the military, and aviation. Some of the stories have already been reported publicly, some have not. Here are but a few examples.
As we have seen in New York state, many doctors and nurses who refuse to be vaccinated now must leave health care, either voluntarily or involuntarily, due to vaccine coercion. Their decades of medical skill and knowledge will be lost to the mandates.
I have been inundated with testimonials from doctors, nurses, and other health-care workers asking for relief from the mandates and indicating they will not succumb to the pressure. New York’s experience will be replicated throughout America, and the negative impact on health care will be profound.
I have been in contact with Lt. Col. Theresa Long, an Army flight surgeon. Her affidavit, which was part of an amended filing in a lawsuit against the military regarding vaccine mandates and injuries in the military, was made public in late September and describes only a small portion of the alarming story she has to tell.
As a result of her efforts to alert her superiors, she is now a pariah to her senior command, and her medical license is being attacked merely for speaking out. The day before her superiors canceled all her appointments with patients, two out of five aviators she saw had developed pericarditis shortly after vaccination, only reporting their symptoms because they read an affidavit online. She has much more to tell but is under a gag order imposed by the military.
The recent flight delays involving Southwest Airlines are another harbinger of mandate harm. Although Southwest’s CEO and pilot union officially deny that delays are being caused by a worker slowdown in reaction to vaccine mandates, individuals are confirming what most of us view as obvious.
Last week, I received a letter from a Wisconsin constituent who is a pilot for a U.S.-based airline. His testimonial raises serious concerns regarding airline safety and demonstrates why we can add a growing pilot shortage to the self-inflicted harms of the vaccine mandate.
The most alarming anecdote in this letter involved a recently vaccinated pilot who “sustained, over a two-day period, partial blindness in one eye and then severe migraine headaches.” His doctor told him he had suffered “micro strokes.” The pilot did not report his medical condition to his Federal Aviation Administration medical examiner because he feared “he would lose his pilot certifications, and hence his livelihood.”
Long submitted her affidavit because her primary responsibility involves keeping military pilots healthy and flight-ready. Part of that responsibility involves grounding pilots when she judges them unready. She is highly concerned that for little to no benefit — these young healthy pilots have a very low probability of severe COVID-19 — we are putting their health and our military readiness at risk.
Unfortunately, we now know the vaccines do not preclude infection or transmission. As a result, we are forcing people to choose between their livelihoods and a freedom-robbing vaccination mandate with no rationale. We are only beginning to see the dire consequences of these ill-advised mandates.
Post by: Rush on October 14, 2021, 06:58:54 AM
https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/14/the-worst-is-yet-to-come-from-bidens-vaccine-coercion/
Quote
His doctor told him he had suffered “micro strokes.” The pilot did not report his medical condition to his Federal Aviation Administration medical examiner because he feared “he would lose his pilot certifications, and hence his livelihood.”
:o :o :o!!!!!!!
Post by: Lucifer on October 14, 2021, 07:06:16 AM
:o :o :o!!!!!!!
It's even worse than that. The CMS tracks vaccine injuries and deaths, and is more reliable than VAERS (mandatory reporting). Of course it only covers 62 and up. I'm trying to find the data that was leaked out, but it keeps disappearing where ever posted.
Post by: Lucifer on October 14, 2021, 07:06:46 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 14, 2021, 07:07:50 AM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 14, 2021, 07:41:00 AM
https://twitter.com/angrybklynmom/status/1448648276039790596
The thread has interesting responses.
Post by: Rush on October 14, 2021, 08:13:51 AM
Thought I'd post this here, maybe it's not the appropriate thread but WTH. This mother has been fun to watch in Twitter
https://twitter.com/angrybklynmom/status/1448648276039790596
The thread has interesting responses.
Yes, fascinating responses. As an example:
Quote
And the BLM riots and the straight-up lies and total hypocrisy around COVID really cemented it for me. That was the point where I was like "fuck these people I'm voting for Trump". I voted for Hillary in 2016.
So many people like that, there’s no way Trump lost in 2020.
Post by: Lucifer on October 14, 2021, 09:05:15 AM
Post by: Rush on October 14, 2021, 09:52:19 AM
Post by: Lucifer on October 14, 2021, 09:55:35 AM
Here’s the thing: it doesn’t matter if the vaccine is unsafe or not. A huge number of people believe it is, or just don’t want it. To try to force them by threatening their livelihoods is counterproductive. It only makes them that much more suspicious of you and that much less willing to comply.
Exactly.
"Why, it's so good, we must mandate and force you to take it against your will."
Post by: Number7 on October 14, 2021, 10:33:11 AM
Exactly.
"Why, it's so good, we must mandate and force you to take it against your will."
How else will nancy the pig and upchuck, not to mention the senile corrupt , imposter get their hundreds of millions in bribes?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on October 26, 2021, 11:11:31 AM
https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/more-on-original-antigenic-sin-and
“It is a near certainty that this immunity will attenuate antibody responses to the spike protein of current and future variants, forever. Mutant spike proteins will increasingly escape vaccine-conferred immunity, and breakthrough infections will elicit only partial response to the new epitopes. Insofar as the data also suggest that our vaccines will attenuate immunity to other virus proteins beyond spike, mass vaccination will lead to ever more volatile waves of infection – in exchange for limited and fading protection against severe outcomes.
The most dangerous thing to do, at this point, would be to vaccinate children. The virus is not a threat to them, and if they are infected by the new forms of SARS-2 that are sure to emerge every winter, we will begin to establish – through them and the as yet unvaccinated – the layered immunity that is the only way of coming to terms with SARS-2 in the longer term. As long as the vaccinators are permitted to continue their radical and increasingly insane campaign, though, nothing will improve. Indeed, their policies threaten to bring about a semi-permanent pandemic state for generations to come.”
Post by: Steingar on October 26, 2021, 12:55:25 PM
“It is a near certainty that this immunity will attenuate antibody responses to the spike protein of current and future variants, forever. Mutant spike proteins will increasingly escape vaccine-conferred immunity, and breakthrough infections will elicit only partial response to the new epitopes. Insofar as the data also suggest that our vaccines will attenuate immunity to other virus proteins beyond spike, mass vaccination will lead to ever more volatile waves of infection – in exchange for limited and fading protection against severe outcomes.
Actually not very likely. The affinity of the COVID Spike protein for the human ACE2 protein is very high. Human antibodies are polyclonal in nature, and respond to numerous different epitopes. Even if the virus can change one, it can't change all without losing its affinity to the ACE2 protein, which is the one trait that has enabled it to so successfully colonize the human ecosystem.
The most dangerous thing to do, at this point, would be to vaccinate children. The virus is not a threat to them, and if they are infected by the new forms of SARS-2 that are sure to emerge every winter, we will begin to establish – through them and the as yet unvaccinated – the layered immunity that is the only way of coming to terms with SARS-2 in the longer term. As long as the vaccinators are permitted to continue their radical and increasingly insane campaign, though, nothing will improve. Indeed, their policies threaten to bring about a semi-permanent pandemic state for generations to come.”
If we don't immunize children they will become vectors for the virus and initiate rounds of infection forever. COVID can no more mutate than Measles, Mumps, or Whooping cough, which are all caused by viruses with RNA genomes just like Coronavirus and are all routinely immunized against in children expect for those of mouth-breathing idiots.
Post by: Lucifer on October 26, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
FDA Panel Votes Unanimously to Approve 5 to 11-year-old Vaccinations: “We’re Never Going to Learn About How Safe This Vaccine Is Unless We Start Giving It, That’s Just The Way It Goes”…
Quote
October 26, 2021 | Sundance
The FDA panel has voted 17 to 0 to approve the Pfizer vaccine for 5 to 11-year-olds. One of the FDA Panelists, Dr. Ruben, outlined his support by saying “We’re never gonna learn about how safe the vaccine is until we start giving it. That’s the way it goes.”
Another panelist noted that 700 young people under the age of 18 have died ‘with‘ COVID, or COVID related symptoms in the past two years. With the full support of the FDA panel, the large scale rollout of the vaccine in young children will now head to the CDC for final approvals.
Post by: Number7 on October 26, 2021, 05:13:26 PM
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/10/26/fda-panel-votes-unanimously-to-approve-5-to-11-year-old-vaccinations-were-never-going-to-learn-about-how-safe-this-vaccine-is-unless-we-start-giving-it-thats-just-the-way-it-goes/
FDA Panel Votes Unanimously to Approve 5 to 11-year-old Vaccinations: “We’re Never Going to Learn About How Safe This Vaccine Is Unless We Start Giving It, That’s Just The Way It Goes”…
Ahhhh.... the steingar approach.
Fuck you America. The ego of those fucking twats is far more important than safety.
Post by: Rush on October 26, 2021, 05:33:58 PM
Post by: Lucifer on October 26, 2021, 05:41:17 PM
That sounds familiar. We have to pass it to find out what’s in it.
Health care run by politicians. Surprised?
Post by: Rush on October 26, 2021, 05:46:31 PM
Health care run by politicians. Surprised?
Why aren’t they running a limited trial of 5 to 11 year olds?
Post by: Lucifer on October 26, 2021, 05:49:34 PM
Why aren’t they running a limited trial of 5 to 11 year olds?
Profits.
Follow. The. Money.
Post by: nddons on October 26, 2021, 06:09:56 PM
So natural immunity doesn’t exist, and herd immunity is impossible to achieve? Have to authored a paper to that effect?
If we don't immunize children they will become vectors for the virus and initiate rounds of infection forever. COVID can no more mutate than Measles, Mumps, or Whooping cough, which are all caused by viruses with RNA genomes just like Coronavirus and are all routinely immunized against in children expect for those of mouth-breathing idiots.
Post by: nddons on October 26, 2021, 06:11:45 PM
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/10/26/fda-panel-votes-unanimously-to-approve-5-to-11-year-old-vaccinations-were-never-going-to-learn-about-how-safe-this-vaccine-is-unless-we-start-giving-it-thats-just-the-way-it-goes/Yet these fuckers want these kid shots to be included under emergency authorization instead of the normal process.
FDA Panel Votes Unanimously to Approve 5 to 11-year-old Vaccinations: “We’re Never Going to Learn About How Safe This Vaccine Is Unless We Start Giving It, That’s Just The Way It Goes”…
So what is the fucking emergency? Are kids dying off and we haven’t heard about it?
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 26, 2021, 06:13:50 PM
Post by: Little Joe on October 26, 2021, 06:25:40 PM
Yet these fuckers want these kid shots to be included under emergency authorization instead of the normal process.YES. KIDS ARE DYING OF COVID!
So what is the fucking emergency? Are kids dying off and we haven’t heard about it?
(94 of them between 5 and 11 since Jan 2020). Its a blood bath I tell ya.
Post by: Number7 on October 26, 2021, 06:28:51 PM
YES. KIDS ARE DYING OF COVID!
(94 of them between 5 and 11 since Jan 2020). Its a blood bath I tell ya.
How many children have those same mother fucking assholes condemned to death in abortion clinics?
If the fucking commie democrats are suddenly so concerned about children's lives, why do they proclaim their undying loyalty to protecting the right to kill kids?
Because they're fucking lying, hypocrites.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on October 26, 2021, 06:56:46 PM
YES. KIDS ARE DYING OF COVID!CDC says 166, still a very small number
(94 of them between 5 and 11 since Jan 2020). Its a blood bath I tell ya.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics
Post by: elwood blues on October 26, 2021, 08:00:20 PM
CDC says 166, still a very small number
Do you trust the CDC to tell you the truth? I'll bet they had to stretch to get the number that high.
Post by: nddons on October 26, 2021, 09:43:08 PM
CDC says 166, still a very small numberI wonder what the child suicide rate is for that same period.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 27, 2021, 05:23:56 AM
I wonder what the child suicide rate is for that same period.
or the number of children killed by drunk drivers.
Post by: Lucifer on October 27, 2021, 06:03:48 AM
Quote
An independent group of Israeli lawyers, researchers, scientists, and physicians have sent an urgent letter to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in advance of the Tuesday, Oct. 26, 2021, Advisory Committee Meeting to discuss Pfizer-BioNTech’s request to amend the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for its COVID-19 mRNA “vaccine” to include children 5 through 11 years of age. Called “Professional Ethics Front,” the nonprofit organization is deeply concerned with the integrity, quality, reliability, and legality of all Israel data associated with COVID-19 vaccination that is being used regarding the safety and efficacy of Pfizer’s “vaccine.”
Post by: Lucifer on October 27, 2021, 09:14:15 AM
Post by: Number7 on October 28, 2021, 04:52:13 AM
The large fount is what separates their bullshit from their bullshit.
Any liberal will be easily convinced now, that pfizer jabbing children is the only possible way to save humanity, and that thinking otherwise should be a hanging offense.
Post by: Lucifer on October 28, 2021, 05:51:16 AM
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on November 12, 2021, 07:20:38 AM
Post by: Rush on November 12, 2021, 07:44:20 AM
Excellent discussion of critical thinking. I was surprised at the death rate being the same. Don’t have time to dig into it now but I would like to know the hospitalization rate. The study he referenced looked like it was too small to draw certain conclusions. But his point about being open to all the facts is spot on. And that so many “experts” are being anti-science themselves while engaging in psy-ops against anyone disagreeing with the approved groupthink.
Post by: Lucifer on November 19, 2021, 08:22:02 AM
Post by: bflynn on November 19, 2021, 11:49:25 AM
Post by: Lucifer on November 19, 2021, 01:41:59 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10220205/Hero-NHS-surgeon-dies-Covid-spending-months-away-family.html
Quote
A hero surgeon who died of Covid while saving patients on the frontline was double-vaccinated but caught the virus just days before boosters became available, his devastated family has revealed.
Grieving widow Saila Halim said Dr Irfan Halim, 45, passed away at Royal Brompton Hospital in West London on November 14 following a nine-week battle with the virus.
The doctor, who had no known health conditions, received his second vaccine in January but was struck down by the disease on September 10, six days before Britain's booster programme was given the green-light.
As a frontline NHS worker who was vaccinated nine months ago, he would have been at the front of the queue for the crucial third shot when they were rolled out on September 16.
Speaking exclusively to MailOnline, Mrs Halim said today: 'My husband worked away from London and I'm not sure which vaccine he received but he was double vaccinated and always wore full PPE when he was on the wards.'
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on November 19, 2021, 08:23:55 PM
Now the third "booster" is "crucial", lest ye die.
Post by: Lucifer on November 19, 2021, 09:46:08 PM
Good timing.
Now the third "booster" is "crucial", lest ye die.
Followed by the fourth booster, then the fifth booster, then the sixth booster............
Post by: Anthony on November 20, 2021, 03:58:11 AM
Followed by the fourth booster, then the fifth booster, then the sixth booster............
The MEDIA and powers behind them sicken me. They want to drag this out forever where we never go back to normal and live in constant fear looking to them and Government for comfort.
We need a real reset. The opposite way they're going.
Post by: Lucifer on November 20, 2021, 07:31:46 AM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/european-medicines-agency-data-shows-1163356-adverse-drug-reactions-30551-fatalities-covid-19-vaccinations/
Quote
The official European Union database of suspected drug reaction website is now reporting 30,551 fatalities and 1,163,356 adverse drug reactions from COVID vaccines Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, and AztraZeneca through November 13, 2021 based on the data submitted to its system.
According to European Medicines Agency, an official website of the European Union, the data of adverse reaction from COVID-19 vaccines were posted in ADRreports.eu portal that “allows users to view the total number of individual suspected side effect reports (also known as Individual Case Safety Reports, or ICSRs).”
All the data shown in the website and individual case report forms were taken from EudraVigilance, “a system designed for collecting reports of suspected side effects, used for evaluating the benefits and risks of medicines during their development and monitoring their safety following their authorization in the European Economic Area (EEA).”
The information were submitted electronically to EudraVigilance by “national medicines regulatory authorities and by pharmaceutical companies that hold marketing authorisations (licences) for the medicines.”
Post by: Number7 on November 20, 2021, 07:45:21 AM
It might interrupt the free flow of bribes to dishonest congress-shitters.
Post by: bflynn on November 24, 2021, 03:05:42 AM
Karen-you should be wearing a mask
Me-Me? Why? Who do you think I’d be protecting?
Karen-well, me!
Me-are you vaccinated?
Karen-yes (proudly and confidently)
Me-you should look up the stats on that. A vaccinated person is .02% likely to die from a breakthrough case. That’s .0002. You’re more likely to die from terrorism.
Karen-(confused look in her eyes) but what about the people who aren’t vaccinated?
Me-well, they’ve kinda made their choice haven’t they?
Karen looked confused and angry at this point, like I had suggesting eating babies or something. She was struggling to find her next argument.
Me-(concerned) Do you vote?
At this point Karen stormed off, I presume to go find a manager or something.
Post by: Rush on November 24, 2021, 03:29:13 AM
Actual conversation yesterday in a store:
Karen-you should be wearing a mask
Me-Me? Why? Who do you think I’d be protecting?
Karen-well, me!
Me-are you vaccinated?
Karen-yes (proudly and confidently)
Me-you should look up the stats on that. A vaccinated person is .02% likely to die from a breakthrough case. That’s .0002. You’re more likely to die from terrorism.
Karen-(confused look in her eyes) but what about the people who aren’t vaccinated?
Me-well, they’ve kinda made their choice haven’t they?
Karen looked confused and angry at this point, like I had suggesting eating babies or something. She was struggling to find her next argument.
Me-(concerned) Do you vote?
At this point Karen stormed off, I presume to go find a manager or something.
Seriously, that was you? Well played!
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on November 24, 2021, 04:27:59 AM
Post by: nddons on November 24, 2021, 06:33:02 AM
Actual conversation yesterday in a store:I can see this happening in November 2020, but November 2021? Those people are a special kind of stupid.
Karen-you should be wearing a mask
Me-Me? Why? Who do you think I’d be protecting?
Karen-well, me!
Me-are you vaccinated?
Karen-yes (proudly and confidently)
Me-you should look up the stats on that. A vaccinated person is .02% likely to die from a breakthrough case. That’s .0002. You’re more likely to die from terrorism.
Karen-(confused look in her eyes) but what about the people who aren’t vaccinated?
Me-well, they’ve kinda made their choice haven’t they?
Karen looked confused and angry at this point, like I had suggesting eating babies or something. She was struggling to find her next argument.
Me-(concerned) Do you vote?
At this point Karen stormed off, I presume to go find a manager or something.
Masktards still abound.
Post by: Lucifer on November 24, 2021, 04:01:36 PM
Quote
November 22, 2021
If the Vaccines Work, Why Aren't They Working?
By Brian C. Joondeph, M.D.
In the movie Moneyball, Oakland Athletics general manager Billy Beane queries his team of scouts when discussing a prospective player, “If he's a good hitter, why doesn't he hit good?” The scouts all have solid explanations, at least in their minds, of why a prospect might be a good hitter, from the sound of the crack of the bat when they hit the ball to the player’s good looks.
These explain why the player should be a good hitter, but what if the numbers, from batting average to on-base percentage, tell a different story? The question Billy poses is obvious in its simplicity, good hitters should hit good. And if they don’t, then perhaps they are not really good hitters.
What if we ask the same question about COVID vaccines, rephrased as “If the vaccines work, why aren’t they working?”
This is the time when I must add the necessary disclaimer that I am not anti-vaccine, having been personally fully vaccinated almost a year ago. Nor am I offering medical advice, only an analysis of current news of COVID cases rising in many highly vaccinated locales, seemingly against common sense.
Some readers have asked why such a disclaimer is necessary. I am a practicing physician, although I don’t treat COVID patients, administer vaccines, or offer medical advice regarding COVID to my retina patients. But today, just having an opinion can be hazardous to one’s livelihood.
The American Federation of Medical Specialists makes it clear, “Physicians who generate and spread COVID-19 vaccine misinformation or disinformation are risking disciplinary action by state medical boards, including the suspension or revocation of their medical license.”
Hopefully asking thoughtful questions and observing how the medical authorities like Dr. Anthony Fauci have changed their own positions on vaccines is not considered “misinformation.” Or that citing the CDC and major news organizations won’t be considered “disinformation.” In the 1950s, x-raying pregnant women was standard practice, and questioning that harmful procedure, were such a thing to be done in the 1950s with today’s climate now might be considered mis- or disinformation.
If you think such medical censorship is all conspiracy theory, ask Dr. Mary Bowden, a Houston ear, nose, and throat specialist suspended from her Houston hospital for tweeting about vaccine mandates and ivermectin.
Back to COVID vaccines. The CDC website states, “COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and free.” Those three words are all relative. Let’s quickly unpack them.
VAERS is the “Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.” From their website, one can compare adverse events from COVID vaccines from the past 11 months they have been available to adverse events from all vaccines for the past 30 years, 1990 and onward.
Note this is 11 months versus 30 years of side effects and in most categories, the cumulative cases are similar between the two groups, despite a 30-fold time difference of data recording. Of note, hospitalizations, deaths, permanent disabilities, and birth defects were greater for 11 months of COVID vaccines than they were for 30 years of all other types of vaccines – such as shingles, influenza, measles, mumps, hepatitis, and so on.
VAERS is voluntary reporting. For a variety of reasons, all cases do not make it to the VAERS database. How much is this underreporting? VAERS did their own analysis about ten years ago and found, “Fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported.” Their words, not mine.
This means adverse events could be happening far more frequently than what we are being told by the corporate media who don’t even report VAERS's current data. What if these adverse events are 10 or even 100 times more common than VAERS reports? To paraphrase Billy Beane, “If the vaccines are safe, why aren’t they safe?”
(https://www.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2021-11/233969_5_.jpg)
Are they effective? The CDC answers an emphatic yes,
COVID-19 study shows mRNA vaccines reduce risk of infection by 91 percent for fully vaccinated people. Vaccination makes illness milder, shorter for the few vaccinated people who do get COVID-19.
Does the real world agree and support the CDC’s optimism? Gibraltar is more than fully vaccinated, they are 118 percent vaccinated, meaning that many fully vaccinated have had booster injections too. Yet this headline doesn’t jive with CDC assertions, “Most vaccinated place on Earth told to cancel holiday plans amid an exponential rise in COVID cases.”
Pick another country: “93% vaccinated Ireland has gone into partial lockdown, including midnight curfew.” This recent headline too, “COVID surge in Singapore despite 80 percent vaccination.” Or from the U.K. where the Spectator reported, “The rates of Covid infection per 100,000 are now higher among the vaxxed than the unvaxxed.”
Closer to home it’s much the same, “Vermont has the highest vaccination rate in the country. So why are cases surging?” My home state of Colorado is singing from the same hymnal, “Colorado’s COVID hospitalizations jump again as virus’ statewide death toll surpasses 9,000.” Colorado’s 12 and up population is over 80 percent partially or fully vaccinated.
If these numbers are misinformation, tell that to big media. I am quoting their headlines. Will their licenses be threatened?
The CDC on its website claims, “Research provides evidence that COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing COVID-19.” Yet cases in highly vaccinated locations are surging, now almost two years into the COVID pandemic. As Billy Beane might say, “If the vaccines work, why aren’t they working?”
Last is the “free” claim. Nothing from the government is “free.” Recipients may not be charged but that is not the same as “free.” The government produces nothing and therefore is not able to offer anything for free. They confiscate money from those they lord over and redistribute it back to those from whom they took it.
The Pfizer vaccine costs the government about $20 per dose, with the other COVID vaccines in the same ballpark. Some 445 million doses of vaccine have been administered in the U.S. to date. That’s $9 billion right there. Spending on research and development has been estimated at $40 billion, pushing the total north of $50 billion, and likely much higher given the many hidden or non-transparent costs.
If these numbers seem off, major vaccine maker Pfizer expects $36 billion in COVID vaccine revenues in 2021, in the same range as the above numbers. While the vaccine may be free to the person getting jabbed, someone is paying the tab for the vaccine, syringe, and time of the person administering the shot. It always works that way – nothing is really “free.” As Billy Beane might say, “If the vaccines are free, why do they cost so much?”
There is nothing wrong with the medical establishment saying, “we don’t know” or “we’re not sure” about COVID prognostications, rather than being cocksure about everything until reality turns their pronouncements upside down. Gaslighting the public, being wrong more than right, doesn’t engender confidence.
Those who preach “follow the science” seem to neither understand nor desire to actually follow the science, instead letting politics replace science with our COVID policies often not following the science.
Dr. Anthony Fauci acknowledged the new vaccine reality in a New York Times podcast last Nov. 12,
They are seeing a waning of immunity not only against infection but against hospitalization and to some extent death, which is starting to now involve all age groups. It isn’t just the elderly.
When others observe and acknowledge this reality, they are ostracized and shamed. How long has Dr. Fauci known this? Last May, the CDC said that once vaccinated, you can return to a normal life. How is that working out?
Instead of transparency, we see this, “FDA wants 55 years to process FOIA request over vaccine data.” Is this, “part of the FDA’s commitment to transparency” as the FDA itself claims? This is the same FDA that took only 108 days to review Pfizer’s clinical trial data, deeming it safe and effective enough for FDA approval. But for the public, the FDA needs 20,000 days to “review” the same data before public release.
The published concept of “imperfect vaccinations enhancing the transmission of highly virulent pathogens,” meaning that vaccinating during a pandemic can create new vaccine-resistant virus strains, is never discussed. Neither are off-label therapeutics that while not a panacea, may save lives. Instead, the government and medical establishment balkanized the world, vaccinated versus unvaccinated, us versus them, the worthy versus the lepers, creating further division in an already divided society.
Despite the shaming and ridicule, here we are, almost two years into the COVID pandemic, with a mostly vaccinated population, and hospitals and ICUs are overrun with COVID cases. This pandemic should be in the rearview mirror, yet in some respects, it is bad as it was last year. Leaving Billy Beane to ask, “If the vaccines work, why aren’t they working?”
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2021, 07:36:57 AM
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/120-children-hospitalized-province-suspends-pfizer-vaccine-batch-4397748.html
Quote
Thanh Hoa has suspended the use of a Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine batch after over 120 students were hospitalized following their inoculation.
Since November 30, the central province has been vaccinating children aged 15-17 with the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. However, over 120 of the children were admitted to hospitals after exhibiting symptoms like nausea, high fever or breathing difficulties, the provincial Center for Disease Control (CDC) said Thursday.
Of these, 17 had severe reactions, but their health has stabilized and they continue to be monitored at the hospital, the center said. The cause of their symptoms has yet to be confirmed by Thanh Hoa authorities.
Thanh Hoa CDC director Luong Ngoc Truong said the province has stopped using the current vaccine batch. "We still have other batches, also Pfizer vaccines, so we will continue vaccinating the children," he said.
The suspended batch would be put into storage and could be used later for other groups like adults, Truong added.
Vu Van Chinh, director of the Ha Trung District General Hospital, said side-effects following vaccination was normal, but are more likely to happen in children than adults.
"Those who have reactions or faint need to be separated so no chain reaction occurs," said Chinh.
The Thanh Hoa CDC has distributed around 117,000 Covid-19 vaccine doses to 27 districts and towns. Over 56,700 doses have been administered.
Over the past week, three children have died following their vaccination with the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in Bac Giang, Hanoi and Binh Phuoc. The cause of death has been determined as "overreaction to the vaccine."
Last week, four workers in Thanh Hoa's Kim Viet Shoe factory died following their Vero Cell Covid-19 vaccination, also due to "overreaction."
Post by: Rush on December 05, 2021, 07:44:50 AM
Nothing to see here...........move along.........
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/120-children-hospitalized-province-suspends-pfizer-vaccine-batch-4397748.html
The suspended batch would be put into storage and could be used later for other groups like adults, Truong added.
What???? Sounds like a lot contaminated with something. Why aren't they trashing it?
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2021, 07:53:59 AM
The suspended batch would be put into storage and could be used later for other groups like adults, Truong added.
What???? Sounds like a lot contaminated with something. Why aren't they trashing it?
Because the Branch Covidians understand that the magic elixir will kill some of the non believers, and hey, it's for the better good, ya know?
Post by: Little Joe on December 05, 2021, 07:57:52 AM
Nothing to see here...........move along.........Lets see:
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/120-children-hospitalized-province-suspends-pfizer-vaccine-batch-4397748.html
56,700 doses
120 hospitalized = .0021
17 severe reactions = .00029
0 deaths = 0.0...
I can see why they would suspend the vac program pending further research, but I don't think it is sufficient to condemn the vaccine program as a whole.
And is this representative of the vaccine as a whole, or are there local/batch issues as well. Was the vaccine properly refrigerated and administered?
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2021, 08:39:45 AM
Lets see:
56,700 doses
120 hospitalized = .0021
17 severe reactions = .00029
0 deaths = 0.0...
I can see why they would suspend the vac program pending further research, but I don't think it is sufficient to condemn the vaccine program as a whole.
And is this representative of the vaccine as a whole, or are there local/batch issues as well. Was the vaccine properly refrigerated and administered?
And you skipped right over this part
Quote
Last week, four workers in Thanh Hoa's Kim Viet Shoe factory died following their Vero Cell Covid-19 vaccination, also due to "overreaction."
Just four right? What the hell, it was for the better good, right? Or is it "Well, they probably died of something else?"
And let's just skip over this
Quote
Of these, 17 had severe reactions, but their health has stabilized and they continue to be monitored at the hospital, the center said. The cause of their symptoms has yet to be confirmed by Thanh Hoa authorities.
Severe reactions. From a vaccine that's supposedly "safe and effective". Oh, but they stabilized, so let's end the story there, let's not look at or even consider what will happen to them long term. Outta sight, outta mind.
The magic elixir the Branch Covidians are pushing injures and kills, this has been established. It does not stop transmission of the virus, nor does it prevent the inoculated from becoming sick with the virus. Even with the recent released Pfizer information it showed during trials 1200 deaths and thousands of injuries, but we shouldn't be concerned because we are so panicked over a disease that the majority have a 99.95% of surviving.
Post by: Little Joe on December 05, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
And you skipped right over this partI didn't skip that part. They were extraneous bits thrown in to make it look scarier. The article was about the 120 reactions in Thanh Hoa. Those deaths were not in Thanh Hoa.
If you want to include all reactions and deaths in other parts of the world, you need to know the number of doses given everywhere.
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2021, 09:59:17 AM
I didn't skip that part. They were extraneous bits thrown in to make it look scarier. The article was about the 120 reactions in Thanh Hoa. Those deaths were not in Thanh Hoa.
If you want to include all reactions and deaths in other parts of the world, you need to know the number of doses given everywhere.
So how many deaths are acceptable percentage wise? How many severe injuries are acceptable?
Post by: Little Joe on December 05, 2021, 10:43:25 AM
So how many deaths are acceptable percentage wise? How many severe injuries are acceptable?Why don't you ask those questions when deaths and severe reactions are reported from COVID? Instead, you show that COVID has low mortality rates and high survivability rates. What's the difference?
You sound like a liberal; If it just saves ONE LIFE, it is worth it. Ban vaccines to save one life from reaction yet ignore the thousands that die from the disease.
Just about everyone on both sides of the vaccine debate are just a bunch of political hypocrites with an agenda and are out to prove a point without regard to facts.
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
Why don't you ask those questions when deaths and severe reactions are reported from COVID? Instead, you show that COVID has low mortality rates and high survivability rates. What's the difference?
I have. I've questioned the validity of supposed claims of death by covid when in fact it was died with covid.
You sound like a liberal; If it just saves ONE LIFE, it is worth it.
You just lost the argument by making such an absurd statement.
Ban vaccines to save one life from reaction yet ignore the thousands that die from the disease.
If we had actual reliable numbers and data of covid injuries and deaths, we could make better decisions. We don't because we have groups such as government, pharmaceuticals and ideologues that are using this virus as a means to achieve an end, that has nothing to do with healthcare.
We do know that the survivability (with present numbers) are overall in the range of 99.95%. If the numbers were more accurate that percentage would increase.
Just about everyone on both sides of the vaccine debate are just a bunch of political hypocrites with an agenda and are out to prove a point without regard to facts.
You've yet to provide any facts, and you are engaging in the same as what you are accusing me of.
I asked a simple question, in which you won't answer. What is the acceptable death rate of the vaccine?? Numbers or percentage?
Let's look at it this way: You and your wife live in a community of 100 people. One person in that community died of covid.
So your community is ordered to be vaccinated. 1 person dies out of the 99 left. Are you OK with that? How about is that person was your wife? Was it worth it?
Post by: Number7 on December 05, 2021, 12:06:22 PM
That is a fact. No amount of bullshit, stupid people, whining and rationalizing it away will work.
Why?
Why are liberals obsessed with forced compliance.
There has to be some reasonable explanation, other than the fucking communist party says so, but I can't find it.
I expect an asshole like steingar to obsess with following orders from his commie masters, but what about the rest?
Post by: Little Joe on December 05, 2021, 12:42:40 PM
I have. I've questioned the validity of supposed claims of death by covid when in fact it was died with covid.What you do is refer to the low mortality rate and say that is acceptable risk. But you wont' say that about vaccine reactions.
You just lost the argument by making such an absurd statement.Obviously it would be absurd to paint you as a liberal. I didn't do that. I said you sound like one when you use the same tactic.
...
We do know that the survivability (with present numbers) are overall in the range of 99.95%. If the numbers were more accurate that percentage would increase.See! You claim the survivability (with present numbers) are ~99.95%. From the Thahn Hoa statistics, the survival rate of the vaccine is 100%.
You've yet to provide any facts, and you are engaging in the same as what you are accusing me of. I asked a simple question, in which you won't answer. What is the acceptable death rate of the vaccine?? Numbers or percentage?That's because there is NO right answer. Just like there is NO right number for airplane fatalities or car crashes.
But I do agree with you whole heartedly regarding vaccine mandates. Getting the vaccine (or not) should be a personal choice. I deemed that the slight chance of getting COVID at my age, and with my medical history, getting the vaccine was the right choice. I can't make that decision for you.
You've yet to provide any facts, and you are engaging in the same as what you are accusing me of. Let's look at it this way: You and your wife live in a community of 100 people. One person in that community died of covid.In that scenario, I would be even more incentivized to get the vaccine.
So your community is ordered to be vaccinated. 1 person dies out of the 99 left. Are you OK with that?
I'm still thinking about that one.
How about is that person was your wife? Was it worth it?
Post by: Lucifer on December 05, 2021, 02:14:30 PM
What you do is refer to the low mortality rate and say that is acceptable risk. But you wont' say that about vaccine reactions.
When did I say that? Playing projection again?
I deal in risk and reality. A disease with a 99.95% survivability rate in an ultra low risk, and as far as we know that number is more than likely even higher.
People have comorbidities, that's a fact. If someone is already dying from another problem, tying the death to covid serves only to inflate the covid number while ignoring why they are dying in the first place.
So in my instance, I'm in excellent health. I've had covid, so I have natural immunity. The vaccines offer me nothing except for a chance to develop a debilitating illness that may shorten my life, if not end it.
The vaccines have been injuring people, and killing some. That's a fact.
Obviously it would be absurd to paint you as a liberal. I didn't do that. I said you sound like one when you use the same tactic.
...
I didn't say your were a pansy, I only said you act like one. ::)
See! You claim the survivability (with present numbers) are ~99.95%. From the Thahn Hoa statistics, the survival rate of the vaccine is 100%.
The article cited 4 deaths. Yo keep ignoring that.
That's because there is NO right answer. Just like there is NO right number for airplane fatalities or car crashes.
Not even close.
But I do agree with you whole heartedly regarding vaccine mandates. Getting the vaccine (or not) should be a personal choice. I deemed that the slight chance of getting COVID at my age, and with my medical history, getting the vaccine was the right choice. I can't make that decision for you.
Thank you.
In that scenario, I would be even more incentivized to get the vaccine.I'm still thinking about that one.
Your choice.
Post by: Rush on December 05, 2021, 02:45:34 PM
Post by: Little Joe on December 05, 2021, 02:49:53 PM
The article cited 4 deaths. Yo keep ignoring that.I didn't ignore that. I explicitly answered that.
The story was about Thahn Hoa. Those 4 deaths were not in Thahn Hoa.
That's like saying the US has 330 million people and there have been 5,270,000 deaths.
Both statements are true. But that doesn't mean the US has has a 1.6% death rate.
If you know the number of people vaccinated IN THE REGION that had 4 vaccine related deaths, THEN you can calculate the vaccine mortality rate for THAT region.
And to me, when you are talking about hundreds of thousands of people being vaccinated for a disease like COVID and you only have 4 deaths, that is an acceptable number.
Post by: Lucifer on December 07, 2021, 06:48:32 AM
Post by: Number7 on December 07, 2021, 09:15:22 AM
Post by: Old Crow on December 07, 2021, 10:34:22 AM
Post by: bflynn on December 07, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
As one lady told Phyllis why did I bother getting the shot that made me sick for a couple of days when it didn't do any good? However, none of us have any other real health problems.
Because it may have prevented a much more serious case. This shot isn't a vaccine the way you think of them for something like polio. It's more like for the flu. You aren't assured of not getting it, but if you do, it should be mitigated.
But look on the bright side, you have the real antibodies now and you beat the 0.02% odds of dying. Congratulations.
Post by: Steingar on December 07, 2021, 02:26:55 PM
The gene pool could use the help.
Post by: texasag93 on December 07, 2021, 02:39:39 PM
Hey, don't get the vaccine. Ignore the social distancing and masks. Go out and do your normal thing.
The gene pool could use the help.
How do you feel about kids (under 18) getting vaccinated?
Post by: Number7 on December 07, 2021, 02:48:59 PM
Hey, don't get the vaccine. Ignore the social distancing and masks. Go out and do your normal thing.
The gene pool could use the help.
Your ignorance is only exceeded by your ego.
Post by: Little Joe on December 07, 2021, 03:06:38 PM
Hey, don't get the vaccine. Ignore the social distancing and masks. Go out and do your normal thing.That is how I feel about it too. If we all did that, you would see the economy skyrocket back to Trump levels.
The gene pool could use the help.
I don't know how much it would help the gene pool, but it might help thin the herd of many of those people eating up our insurance dollars from all of those so-called "comorbidities".
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 07, 2021, 03:13:49 PM
That is how I feel about it too. If we all did that, you would see the economy skyrocket back to Trump levels.
back to "Trump levels"? doubtful. We still have that clown occupying the white house and all that brings with it...
Post by: Little Joe on December 07, 2021, 04:38:45 PM
back to "Trump levels"? doubtful. We still have that clown occupying the white house and all that brings with it...True, but I was referring to the bounce that I would expect. Of course, until we get rid of the clown, things will continue to degrade.
EXCEPT for the stock market. Liberal policies tend to make the stock market (which is NOT the economy) go up, thus making the rich even richer. Once again the libs create policies that defeat their stated intentions. (They make the economy go up, until it bursts and comes crashing down again).
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 07, 2021, 07:00:05 PM
True, but I was referring to the bounce that I would expect. Of course, until we get rid of the clown, things will continue to degrade.Not really a lot of alternatives to the market.
EXCEPT for the stock market. Liberal policies tend to make the stock market (which is NOT the economy) go up, thus making the rich even richer. Once again the libs create policies that defeat their stated intentions. (They make the economy go up, until it bursts and comes crashing down again).
Post by: Little Joe on December 07, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Not really a lot of alternatives to the market.You could own a small business or invest in real estate, or even just work for wages. Liberal policies clobbers those people. But if you are invested in the stock market, you usually do well under liberal administrations. I didn't believe it at first, but it's a fact.
What happens to a companies stock when they announce they are going to lay off 5,000 workers? Stock price generally goes up.
Liberals raise corporate taxes so corporations move off shore for reduced costs. Stock goes up.
Liberals spend trillions of dollars causing inflation to ravage people with higher prices. Higher prices makes stock prices go up.
If all I cared about was stock profits rather than the real economy, I would vote for liberals all the time.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on December 07, 2021, 08:51:50 PM
You could own a small business or invest in real estate, or even just work for wages. Liberal policies clobbers those people. But if you are invested in the stock market, you usually do well under liberal administrations. I didn't believe it at first, but it's a fact.
What happens to a companies stock when they announce they are going to lay off 5,000 workers? Stock price generally goes up.
Liberals raise corporate taxes so corporations move off shore for reduced costs. Stock goes up.
Liberals spend trillions of dollars causing inflation to ravage people with higher prices. Higher prices makes stock prices go up.
If all I cared about was stock profits rather than the real economy, I would vote for liberals all the time.
I never understood that. Don't the libs thrive on telling their voting blocks that rich Republicans are their enemy, and all rich people are Republican?
The market really runs on stability. It dragged under Obama because business folks were afraid of what the libs were going to do for an encore after O'scare.
Post by: Anthony on December 08, 2021, 03:44:40 AM
I never understood that. Don't the libs thrive on telling their voting blocks that rich Republicans are their enemy, and all rich people are Republican?
The market really runs on stability. It dragged under Obama because business folks were afraid of what the libs were going to do for an encore after O'scare.
They're not "Liberals". The useful idiots are brainwashed, Progressive Marxists and the elite that have them indoctrinated are Feudal style Royals using their wealth gained through Capitalism to subjugate us.
Post by: Number7 on December 08, 2021, 04:09:16 AM
They're not "Liberals". The useful idiots are brainwashed, Progressive Marxists and the elite that have them indoctrinated are Feudal style Royals using their wealth gained through Capitalism to subjugate us.
The current iteration of liberal is a myopic, follower, incapable of thinking for themselves, willing to accept any lie, no matter how blatantly ignorant.
If you have trouble processing that, think about these government - progressive, democrat, communist lies:
The BEST jobs program is a welfare check!
If you print more money, there will always be enough!
Abortion is HEALTHCARE!
Attending rallies protesting the stolen election is too dangerous because of the fake pandemic, but rioting, looting, abusing people and burning down your neighborhood in support of black lives matter is 'safe.'
Hospitals should only count un-vaccinated covid cases, ignoring breakthrough ones.
Shopping at walmart - safe! Shopping at any small business - Un-Safe! Obviously liberal idiots believe the virus can't get you if you shop at walmart, but if you shop at your local hardware store, it will kill you. Yep that takes a special kind of stupid.
Closing churches for safety! Rioting and burning down the cities... perfectly safe AND it's all mostly peaceful.
The deeply demented mind of the modern progressive defies reason, logic, or intelligence.
Post by: Little Joe on December 08, 2021, 04:33:09 AM
I never understood that. Don't the libs thrive on telling their voting blocks that rich Republicans are their enemy, and all rich people are Republican?Do you remember Quantitative Easing?
The market really runs on stability. It dragged under Obama because business folks were afraid of what the libs were going to do for an encore after O'scare.
I was heavily invested, so I made a ton of money. The problem was that most of my younger siblings lost their jobs, or had their jobs downgraded, and I had to basically support them for several years.
Post by: Mr Pou on December 08, 2021, 05:30:53 AM
Hey, don't get the vaccine. Ignore the social distancing and masks. Go out and do your normal thing.
The gene pool could use the help.
I've been doing my normal thing for two years now, including lots of bargain trips the summer of 2020, some were practically giving away VRBO and AirBnB weeks just to get people in their places. Not a one of my small posse (six of us plus our families) have had a lick of trouble. We continued to do many trips together in '21, and have no plans to abate.
Living and enjoying life I am, not living under a rock.
Post by: Rush on December 08, 2021, 05:31:37 AM
The current iteration of liberal is a myopic, follower, incapable of thinking for themselves, willing to accept any lie, no matter how blatantly ignorant.
If you have trouble processing that, think about these government - progressive, democrat, communist lies:
The BEST jobs program is a welfare check!
If you print more money, there will always be enough!
Abortion is HEALTHCARE!
Attending rallies protesting the stolen election is too dangerous because of the fake pandemic, but rioting, looting, abusing people and burning down your neighborhood in support of black lives matter is 'safe.'
Hospitals should only count un-vaccinated covid cases, ignoring breakthrough ones.
Shopping at walmart - safe! Shopping at any small business - Un-Safe! Obviously liberal idiots believe the virus can't get you if you shop at walmart, but if you shop at your local hardware store, it will kill you. Yep that takes a special kind of stupid.
Closing churches for safety! Rioting and burning down the cities... perfectly safe AND it's all mostly peaceful.
The deeply demented mind of the modern progressive defies reason, logic, or intelligence.
The current liberal is a traitor to the very ideals of liberalism and has now become the evil it once opposed. “Liberal” began as a reaction against the status quo. “Conservative” means you want to keep the status quo. Liberalism began as the common man rising against the rich, ruling aristocracy in Europe, which was the status quo. Today’s “liberal” is now the ruling elite, hoarding wealth and power to itself through capitalism while outwardly denouncing capitalism when it benefits the common man.
This is the fundamental hypocrisy of the liberal: Preaching communist ideals of equality while practicing an authoritarian form of capitalism which functions as reverse Robin Hood, funneling wealth upwards into the pockets of those who are self appointed leaders of the “left”. In the U.S. their main vehicle is the Democrat Party.
They aren’t actually liberals at all, not leftists in the sense of enacting equal distribution of wealth nor conservatives in the sense of promoting free market capitalism. They are in fact simply greedy bullies, getting and keeping more and more money and power to themselves. They don’t actually have ideals other than personal greed.
They have become the ruling class just like the aristocracy in 17th century Europe, totally disconnected from the common man, full of self righteous entitlement, and contempt for those they view as beneath them.
Post by: Mr Pou on December 08, 2021, 05:31:49 AM
that clown occupying the white house
The Resident?
Post by: Mr Pou on December 08, 2021, 05:35:21 AM
Not really a lot of alternatives to the market.
As long as the Fed gives away money for nothing, then yes, the market is really the only place to match or outpace inflation.
Post by: Steingar on December 08, 2021, 07:27:42 AM
How do you feel about kids (under 18) getting vaccinated?
If the FDA says it's safe it's good by me. Kids make good disease vectors.
Post by: Rush on December 08, 2021, 07:44:41 AM
If the FDA says it's safe it's good by me. Kids make good disease vectors.
Only when they're actually sick. I haven't seen any evidence that asymptomatic kids are the ones spreading covid everywhere. And most kids are asymptomatic or have very mild short lived symptoms. If memory serves, you yourself have said, defending the vaccine for adults, that viral shedding is related to how symptomatic you are. If that is true, there isn't much point in vaccinating kids if the goal is to slow or stop the spread.
Post by: Mr Pou on December 08, 2021, 07:57:39 AM
Shopping at walmart - safe! Shopping at any small business - Un-Safe! Obviously liberal idiots believe the virus can't get you if you shop at walmart, but if you shop at your local hardware store, it will kill you. Yep that takes a special kind of stupid.
Follow the money, small businesses have no real lobby, OTOH, the monsters (Walmart, Amazon, Apple, etc) have influence.
EDIT: Also, destroying small business creates more reliance on the monsters, making centralized control an easier thing to achieve.
Post by: Anthony on December 08, 2021, 07:59:56 AM
Follow the money, small businesses have no real lobby, OTOH, the monsters (Walmart, Amazon, Apple, etc) have influence.
EDIT: Also, destroying small business creates more reliance on the monsters, making centralized control an easier thing to achieve.
You win the internet today. Another spot on post.
Post by: Number7 on December 08, 2021, 08:24:13 AM
Follow the money, small businesses have no real lobby, OTOH, the monsters (Walmart, Amazon, Apple, etc) have influence.
EDIT: Also, destroying small business creates more reliance on the monsters, making centralized control an easier thing to achieve.
Yep, and the lemmings, stupid people and other kinds of democrats fell for the lie like the parasitic, idiots they are.
Post by: nddons on December 08, 2021, 09:28:43 AM
The Resident?The Rezidentura.
Post by: nddons on December 08, 2021, 09:31:33 AM
Follow the money, small businesses have no real lobby, OTOH, the monsters (Walmart, Amazon, Apple, etc) have influence.This is completely correct. The US Chamber of Commerce is driving open borders, trade with China and other despotic regimes, and turns its eyes to cheep and sometimes slave labor.
EDIT: Also, destroying small business creates more reliance on the monsters, making centralized control an easier thing to achieve.
They are in the pocket of the CCP.
Post by: Anthony on December 09, 2021, 03:56:13 AM
This is completely correct. The US Chamber of Commerce is driving open borders, trade with China and other despotic regimes, and turns its eyes to cheep and sometimes slave labor.
They are in the pocket of the CCP.
As are all the Republican and Democrat politicians they own.
Post by: Lucifer on December 09, 2021, 06:19:36 AM
He had a interview with UAL upcoming. That’s over with now.
Post by: Rush on December 09, 2021, 08:41:32 AM
Another individual I’m acquainted with, mid thirties, excellent health. He got the jab, had a mild stroke as a result. He’s recovering.
He had a interview with UAL upcoming. That’s over with now.
That’s terrible.
Here’s the thing though. A story from my own life. A few months ago at a routine eye exam my ophthalmologist told me I’m getting a secondary cataract which is cloudiness of the posterior capsule after cataract surgery. It’s easily fixable by simply burning a small hole through the membrane with a laser.
So the doctor says, I can do it right now, it won’t take 5 minutes. I asked what are the risks? He said there is a small risk of detached retina.
I asked what are the risks of putting off the procedure? He said no big risk but your vision will continue to get cloudy.
I’ve had a detached retina before so I totally balked, plus it was late afternoon and I’d already had a bad day, was facing rush hour traffic, and just wanted to get out of there, so I told him no thank you. Let’s do it if and when the cloudiness starts to bother me.
Less than a month later I had a detached retina. Come to find out that one month is the high risk timeframe for detachment after that particular procedure. If I’d had it done that day, I, and my doctor, would have been convinced the procedure had caused it.
The tendency to associate cause and effect is strong, really almost impossible not to believe. Our brains are wired that way. This is exactly why you need objective scientific studies to figure out if there is a true cause and effect or if it is just chronological coincidence.
Is there proof the jab cause his stroke? No. But you will never convince certain people otherwise. There is also no proof it WASN’T. If I had had that laser procedure there is absolutely nothing anyone could have done to prove it wasn’t the cause of my subsequent detachment. Yet the truth would have been that it wasn’t. Only God would have known.
The tragedy is that objective study and even simple discussion of the topic is not happening. Open discussion is being censored and who knows if any valid research is being done. There seems to be a strong opposition from the pharmaceutical companies and politicians to do a deep dive into the claims of cardiovascular events after the vaccine. But only an objective complete analysis of a very large dataset can tell us the statistical likelihood of whether the vaccine might have caused his stroke. Strokes do happen to young people spontaneously for no apparent reason. Edwyn Collins is a sad example.
The absolute wrong thing to do is force people to take the vaccine. We don’t know whether it is dangerous and there are plenty of anecdotal cases as well as some studies indicating it is. We can’t know for sure it caused your acquaintance’s stroke but he should have had the choice about the jab. Even if he took it voluntarily there is strong social and employment pressure to do so, not to mention the outright lying and obfuscation we are subject to about it, so that even voluntarily getting the vaccine is NOT true informed consent.
I hope he recovers well and maybe eventually can jump through FAA hoops and get certified, but if that’s even possible I imagine it will be years. Very sad.
Post by: Little Joe on December 09, 2021, 08:48:31 AM
Post by: bflynn on December 09, 2021, 08:49:48 AM
Maybe it's related to stress? Lockdowns? Eating poorly?
Post by: Lucifer on December 09, 2021, 08:49:53 AM
This is a healthy guy that undergoes a physical every 6 months.
His UAL job chance is shot. And probably any other major airline.
There’s just way, way too many “coincidences” happening right now WRT the vaccine and people developing health issues, or dying.
Post by: bflynn on December 09, 2021, 08:51:06 AM
His doctor attributed the stroke to the vaccine.
That isn't proof of causality. Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Post by: Lucifer on December 09, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
That isn't proof of causality. Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Whatever. Since you are assuming to be the attending physician of an individual you never met, please give us your medical opinion.
Post by: Rush on December 09, 2021, 11:36:11 AM
His doctor attributed the stroke to the vaccine.
This is a healthy guy that undergoes a physical every 6 months.
His UAL job chance is shot. And probably any other major airline.
There’s just way, way too many “coincidences” happening right now WRT the vaccine and people developing health issues, or dying.
Just as my doctor would have attributed my detached retina to the laser procedure (even if he wouldn’t have admitted it out loud for fear of lawsuit). But in that case, it is because there IS a known statistical increase in detached retina associated with the procedure. Yet in my individual case, it was NOT associated, despite the fact that overall, it is!
So while I give the doctor’s opinion a lot of weight, it isn’t gospel. You cannot make a certain determination in any one individual case, you can only draw statistical likelihood (absent a clearly defined known mechanism, such as, the bullet blasted through his skull, we recovered it on autopsy and examined his mushed up brain, so we can say for certain that was the cause of the patient’s demise.) To my knowledge there is no known way to show exactly why a particular clot that lodged in a cerebral artery was formed in a previously healthy person (or bleed, whichever type stroke it was), only theory and associations with risk factors.
This doctor may well be seeing a lot of increased “idiopathic” events in his practice after the jab, and might be keeping a tally himself of percent cases in the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated. But has he identified the exact mechanism that’s causing it?
The very definition of idiopathic means without known cause, in other words, in a healthy individual. There can be risk factors such as if you smoke which increase your likelihood of stroke, but even then you cannot say with 100% certainty that smoking is what definitively caused your stroke.
There absolutely is a proven association between clot formation and one of the vaccines, I think it’s the J&J, do we know if your acquaintance got that one? If so, the likelihood the doctor is right rises greatly. Even if not, I’m inclined to believe it’s a greater than even odds so I’m not trying to be ornery with you; my opposition is because of my great frustration over how these reported “side effects” are NOT being taken seriously by the branch covidians and studied as they should be: they need to be either ruled out or the cause, if it exists, found.
But instead they are telling us these events don’t exist, they’re all coincidence, and just shut up and believe them. I’m NOT saying your acquaintance’s stroke is just a coincidence. I’m saying it might be, but it also might not be and we need to get to the bottom of it, but the PTB and their useful idiots don’t want to address it.
Post by: bflynn on December 09, 2021, 12:39:12 PM
Whatever. Since you are assuming to be the attending physician of an individual you never met, please give us your medical opinion.
How about my scientific opinion? There is no statistical evidence that vaccines can cause strokes. The occurrence of strokes in those who receive the vaccine is not statistically higher than the occurrence of those who do not. Knowing this, we also know that no doctor is capable of knowing that a vaccine caused a stroke.
If you want agreement, then Socratic method says you must prove your positive, not demand proof of a negative. Unfortunately, I just explained that the data you need to prove your positive doesn't exist and in fact, the evidence indicates the exact opposite. Not that I expect you to acknowledge science, if for no other reason than your ego is going to lead you to lash out.
Post by: Rush on December 09, 2021, 03:50:36 PM
How about my scientific opinion? There is no statistical evidence that vaccines can cause strokes. The occurrence of strokes in those who receive the vaccine is not statistically higher than the occurrence of those who do not. Knowing this, we also know that no doctor is capable of knowing that a vaccine caused a stroke.
If you want agreement, then Socratic method says you must prove your positive, not demand proof of a negative. Unfortunately, I just explained that the data you need to prove your positive doesn't exist and in fact, the evidence indicates the exact opposite. Not that I expect you to acknowledge science, if for no other reason than your ego is going to lead you to lash out.
Pretty sure it is higher for the J&J vaccine if memory serves. Don’t have time to look it up right now.
Post by: Lucifer on December 09, 2021, 03:52:38 PM
How about my scientific opinion? There is no statistical evidence that vaccines can cause strokes. The occurrence of strokes in those who receive the vaccine is not statistically higher than the occurrence of those who do not. Knowing this, we also know that no doctor is capable of knowing that a vaccine caused a stroke.
If you want agreement, then Socratic method says you must prove your positive, not demand proof of a negative. Unfortunately, I just explained that the data you need to prove your positive doesn't exist and in fact, the evidence indicates the exact opposite. Not that I expect you to acknowledge science, if for no other reason than your ego is going to lead you to lash out.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Still the same one trick pony. ::)
Post by: Jim Logajan on December 09, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Still the same one trick pony. ::)
Your counterarguments are excellent!
Post by: Lucifer on December 09, 2021, 05:15:43 PM
Your counterarguments are excellent!
Shouldn't you be on the joke thread fact checking it?
Post by: bflynn on December 09, 2021, 07:57:24 PM
Pretty sure it is higher for the J&J vaccine if memory serves. Don’t have time to look it up right now.
Yes, the estimate is 0.6 excess cases per 100,000 population. The age adjusted for the general population is 37.1 per 100,000. But we should keep in mind that the 0.6 is weighted toward the elderly, who have a much higher incident.
In the US, someone has a stroke every 40 seconds. The vaccine MIGHT make that every 39.99 seconds.
The difference is so small that it is impossible to assign the vaccine as the cause.
I could stop being a one trick pony if certain people would stop making the same mistake over and over.
Post by: nddons on December 10, 2021, 08:00:45 AM
That’s terrible.At my physical this week my physician conveyed a similar lack of cause and effect situation.
Here’s the thing though. A story from my own life. A few months ago at a routine eye exam my ophthalmologist told me I’m getting a secondary cataract which is cloudiness of the posterior capsule after cataract surgery. It’s easily fixable by simply burning a small hole through the membrane with a laser.
So the doctor says, I can do it right now, it won’t take 5 minutes. I asked what are the risks? He said there is a small risk of detached retina.
I asked what are the risks of putting off the procedure? He said no big risk but your vision will continue to get cloudy.
I’ve had a detached retina before so I totally balked, plus it was late afternoon and I’d already had a bad day, was facing rush hour traffic, and just wanted to get out of there, so I told him no thank you. Let’s do it if and when the cloudiness starts to bother me.
Less than a month later I had a detached retina. Come to find out that one month is the high risk timeframe for detachment after that particular procedure. If I’d had it done that day, I, and my doctor, would have been convinced the procedure had caused it.
The tendency to associate cause and effect is strong, really almost impossible not to believe. Our brains are wired that way. This is exactly why you need objective scientific studies to figure out if there is a true cause and effect or if it is just chronological coincidence.
Is there proof the jab cause his stroke? No. But you will never convince certain people otherwise. There is also no proof it WASN’T. If I had had that laser procedure there is absolutely nothing anyone could have done to prove it wasn’t the cause of my subsequent detachment. Yet the truth would have been that it wasn’t. Only God would have known.
The tragedy is that objective study and even simple discussion of the topic is not happening. Open discussion is being censored and who knows if any valid research is being done. There seems to be a strong opposition from the pharmaceutical companies and politicians to do a deep dive into the claims of cardiovascular events after the vaccine. But only an objective complete analysis of a very large dataset can tell us the statistical likelihood of whether the vaccine might have caused his stroke. Strokes do happen to young people spontaneously for no apparent reason. Edwyn Collins is a sad example.
The absolute wrong thing to do is force people to take the vaccine. We don’t know whether it is dangerous and there are plenty of anecdotal cases as well as some studies indicating it is. We can’t know for sure it caused your acquaintance’s stroke but he should have had the choice about the jab. Even if he took it voluntarily there is strong social and employment pressure to do so, not to mention the outright lying and obfuscation we are subject to about it, so that even voluntarily getting the vaccine is NOT true informed consent.
I hope he recovers well and maybe eventually can jump through FAA hoops and get certified, but if that’s even possible I imagine it will be years. Very sad.
She had a new patient who came in and told my doctor “Just so you know, I’m not getting the vaccine. My husband had a massive stroke and now can’t walk and wears a diaper.” This was the conversation:
Doc: That’s terrible. How long ago did he get the vaccine?
Patient: Three weeks ago.
Doc: That’s quite a long time for such a reaction to happen. Did anything else change?
Patient: He was off his blood thinners.
Doc: Why was he on blood thinners?
Patient: He has a heart issue.
Doc: Why was he off his blood thinners?
Patient: He was having surgery.
Doc: What kind of surgery?
Patient: Cancer surgery.
So there were four issues that can cause your body to throw off blood clots, which can cause a stroke:
1. Cancer
2. Surgery
3. Heart issues
4. Going off blood thinners
Could it have been the vaccine? Possibly. But Occam’s Razor says it is more likely one of the other major clot risks could have caused it.
Post by: Lucifer on December 10, 2021, 09:35:27 AM
At my physical this week my physician conveyed a similar lack of cause and effect situation.
She had a new patient who came in and told my doctor “Just so you know, I’m not getting the vaccine. My husband had a massive stroke and now can’t walk and wears a diaper.” This was the conversation:
Doc: That’s terrible. How long ago did he get the vaccine?
Patient: Three weeks ago.
Doc: That’s quite a long time for such a reaction to happen. Did anything else change?
Patient: He was off his blood thinners.
Doc: Why was he on blood thinners?
Patient: He has a heart issue.
Doc: Why was he off his blood thinners?
Patient: He was having surgery.
Doc: What kind of surgery?
Patient: Cancer surgery.
So there were four issues that can cause your body to throw off blood clots, which can cause a stroke:
1. Cancer
2. Surgery
3. Heart issues
4. Going off blood thinners
Could it have been the vaccine? Possibly. But Occam’s Razor says it is more likely one of the other major clot risks could have caused it.
In that scenario, you are correct.
But how do explain a mid thirties male, in excellent health, on no medications, that gets a regular physical every six months, has no family history of anything detrimental, suddenly having a stroke after taking a vaccine that has been admitted to cause clotting problems in young men?
Post by: nddons on December 10, 2021, 10:28:29 AM
In that scenario, you are correct.How do you explain Jim Fixx, marathon runner and author of the Complete Book of Running, dying of a heart attack while running at age 52? Wikipedia says “his genetic predisposition for heart problems and other previous lifestyle factors may have caused his heart attack.”
But how do explain a mid thirties male, in excellent health, on no medications, that gets a regular physical every six months, has no family history of anything detrimental, suddenly having a stroke after taking a vaccine that has been admitted to cause clotting problems in young men?
I’m not debating your claim. It’s very possible the vaccine caused it based on what I know. That’s why I don’t think I’ll get a booster. But it could also be other factors that won’t pop up even on a Class I medical exam, like the possible causes of Jim Fixx’s heart attack.
Post by: Lucifer on December 10, 2021, 10:37:16 AM
How do you explain Jim Fixx, marathon runner and author of the Complete Book of Running, dying of a heart attack while running at age 52? Wikipedia says “his genetic predisposition for heart problems and other previous lifestyle factors may have caused his heart attack.”
I’m not debating your claim. It’s very possible the vaccine caused it based on what I know. That’s why I don’t think I’ll get a booster. But it could also be other factors that won’t pop up even on a Class I medical exam, like the possible causes of Jim Fixx’s heart attack.
My point being I'm not the young man's physician. And his physician is attributing the stroke to the vaccine due to the other known factors.
The Branch Covidians can't have any negative comments towards their magic elixir, strictly forbidden. They will throw out nonsensical statistics and become triggered, then claim any injuries or deaths from the magic elixir are purely coincidental.
My MD is dealing with more and more vaccine injury cases. And he admits that there is a big effort from Big Pharma and government to not disclose what's going on. He also stated more and more medical professionals are beginning to realize the consequences, but yet the devout Branch Covidian medical folks still want dissenters quieted or shut down, if not put out of business.
Post by: nddons on December 10, 2021, 03:03:40 PM
My point being I'm not the young man's physician. And his physician is attributing the stroke to the vaccine due to the other known factors.There’s no doubt that’s happening. There are a ton of benefits for being part of a large medical system with a medical college here in Milwaukee. The downside is as with any large organization - groupthink and selected flow of information.
The Branch Covidians can't have any negative comments towards their magic elixir, strictly forbidden. They will throw out nonsensical statistics and become triggered, then claim any injuries or deaths from the magic elixir are purely coincidental.
My MD is dealing with more and more vaccine injury cases. And he admits that there is a big effort from Big Pharma and government to not disclose what's going on. He also stated more and more medical professionals are beginning to realize the consequences, but yet the devout Branch Covidian medical folks still want dissenters quieted or shut down, if not put out of business.
Post by: Rush on December 10, 2021, 03:40:33 PM
My point being I'm not the young man's physician. And his physician is attributing the stroke to the vaccine due to the other known factors.
The Branch Covidians can't have any negative comments towards their magic elixir, strictly forbidden. They will throw out nonsensical statistics and become triggered, then claim any injuries or deaths from the magic elixir are purely coincidental.
My MD is dealing with more and more vaccine injury cases. And he admits that there is a big effort from Big Pharma and government to not disclose what's going on. He also stated more and more medical professionals are beginning to realize the consequences, but yet the devout Branch Covidian medical folks still want dissenters quieted or shut down, if not put out of business.
I asked my cardiologist today about clots and heart issues caused by the vaccine. He said he is seeing it only in people with covid the disease, not in people from the vaccine. It’s the first time I’ve been to that practice and the first time I’ve met him so I have no idea if he is a devout branch covidian or an objective thinker, like my other doctor who has accepted hydroxychloroquine.
Post by: Lucifer on December 15, 2021, 06:54:51 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2021, 07:25:17 AM
These DC's are busy redefining words such as "vaccine" to fit their agenda. Pope Tony will probably institute daily prayers to Pfizer and Moderna as well.
Post by: Number7 on December 18, 2021, 07:51:25 AM
Someone needs to demand transparency on how many millions dr quackenheimer has collected from his partnering with big pharma and bill fucking gates on the faux vaccines. Then we need total disclosure on how many bribes and how much has been doled out to congress and people at scum bags at the cdc and w.h.ho.ho.ho...
Post by: Anthony on December 18, 2021, 08:32:19 AM
So Pope Tony wants to drop the word "mandate" and replace it with "requirement" when mentioning his magic elixir.
These DC's are busy redefining words such as "vaccine" to fit their agenda. Pope Tony will probably institute daily prayers to Pfizer and Moderna as well.
Well I didn't expect some type of Spanish Inquisition.
Post by: Number7 on December 18, 2021, 08:37:16 AM
That is malpractice taken to the highest level possible, except maybe attacking physicians for prescribing ivermectin, because the real President suggested it.
Liberals are stupid and those are two exceptional examples.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 18, 2021, 09:12:41 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2021, 09:28:35 AM
You really should listen to the Joe Rogan podcast with Dr. McCoullough
I have, that and others as well. Dr McCoullough has been demonized by the Branch Covidians as a heretic.
The Branch Covidian cult worships Pope Tony and only believes the magic elixir is the way to salvation. Any talk of treating the dreaded most deadly virus humanity has ever know will get those cast out of society.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 18, 2021, 10:55:15 AM
The worst was Dr. Sanjay Gupta going on Sesame Street to exhort kids to get their vaccine without covering the possible side effects. That is morally wrong and you know it.
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2021, 11:29:00 AM
When you hear commercials for drugs it always includes the warnings that go with the drug? Have you ever heard your Government or media delver those warnings for the COVID vaccines? They exist, go check them out.
The worst was Dr. Sanjay Gupta going on Sesame Street to exhort kids to get their vaccine without covering the possible side effects. That is morally wrong and you know it.
Absolutely it's wrong. But the Branch Covidians are a cult. The magic elixir can do no harm.
Big Pharma is 2021's version of Big Tech. The money is coming in fast and furious, and they only have to produce the product while having governments demanding citizens to take it. Big Pharma is not going to let this cash cow go away. Never.
Pfizer paid out the biggest settlement in history for their bullshit. Moderna has never had a FDA product. Yet now their CEO's are billionaires overnight and the companies are worth billions. And they know how to buy off politicians.
Post by: Lucifer on December 18, 2021, 11:32:54 AM
Post by: Anthony on December 18, 2021, 12:16:26 PM
Absolutely it's wrong. But the Branch Covidians are a cult. The magic elixir can do no harm.
Big Pharma is 2021's version of Big Tech. The money is coming in fast and furious, and they only have to produce the product while having governments demanding citizens to take it. Big Pharma is not going to let this cash cow go away. Never.
Pfizer paid out the biggest settlement in history for their bullshit. Moderna has never had a FDA product. Yet now their CEO's are billionaires overnight and the companies are worth billions. And they know how to buy off politicians.
Big auto also. Watch the de facto mandates to buy only Electric Vehicles through the banning of fossil fuel run cars and other back door deals and measures. What thinking person would want that crap unless forced or have no other option?
Post by: Rush on December 18, 2021, 01:39:30 PM
Absolutely it's wrong. But the Branch Covidians are a cult. The magic elixir can do no harm.
Big Pharma is 2021's version of Big Tech. The money is coming in fast and furious, and they only have to produce the product while having governments demanding citizens to take it. Big Pharma is not going to let this cash cow go away. Never.
Pfizer paid out the biggest settlement in history for their bullshit. Moderna has never had a FDA product. Yet now their CEO's are billionaires overnight and the companies are worth billions. And they know how to buy off politicians.
Trump had good intentions pushing for a fast vaccine. At first we thought the disease was deadlier than it is turning out to be now. In hindsight, we should have done nothing. No vaccine, just let the thing sweep the country, kill the weak and evolve to be nothing but sniffles like most other coronaviruses.
I bet the ONE politician these companies don’t funnel money to is Trump. In early 2020 Trump’s motive was to save lives. Today, the motive is continuing an indefinite cash stream.
Post by: Anthony on December 19, 2021, 01:53:14 AM
Trump had good intentions pushing for a fast vaccine. At first we thought the disease was deadlier than it is turning out to be now. In hindsight, we should have done nothing. No vaccine, just let the thing sweep the country, kill the weak and evolve to be nothing but sniffles like most other coronaviruses.
I bet the ONE politician these companies don’t funnel money to is Trump. In early 2020 Trump’s motive was to save lives. Today, the motive is continuing an indefinite cash stream.
^^^^^^This!!!
Post by: Lucifer on December 20, 2021, 06:21:09 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2021, 06:01:03 AM
Post by: Rush on December 23, 2021, 06:27:01 AM
Post by: Username on December 23, 2021, 06:52:42 AM
Post by: Number7 on December 23, 2021, 07:03:47 AM
I wonder what "most" means. 51%? Only 49% harmful?I'm sure POS Weinstein will be along to explain the lies - I mean messaging.
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2021, 07:19:38 AM
Whoa! I thought they were safe, period! Isn’t that what they’ve been telling us for over a year?No.
They are safer than catching the disease, but not 100% safe for everyone. Just like nobody said vaccines are 100% effective. Heck, MILK isn't 100% safe for everyone.
Post by: Number7 on December 23, 2021, 07:25:12 AM
No.
They are safer than catching the disease, but not 100% safe for everyone. Just like nobody said vaccines are 100% effective. Heck, MILK isn't 100% safe for everyone.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Oh, Joe. You're killing me.
They're so safe the vaccine maker needed federal exemption from liability and SEVENTY-FIVE years secrecy as to their testing data.
What a crock of shit you're selling.
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2021, 07:34:07 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!I didn't say they are safe.
Oh, Joe. You're killing me.
They're so safe the vaccine maker needed federal exemption from liability and SEVENTY-FIVE years secrecy as to their testing data.
What a crock of shit you're selling.
Rush said we are being told they are safe. I said "NO".
Perhaps you need a little remedial reading refresher course.
Post by: Number7 on December 23, 2021, 07:38:36 AM
I didn't say they are safe.
Rush said we are being told they are safe. I said "NO".
Perhaps you need a little remedial reading refresher course.
Perhaps you need another paper pacifier...
You could also use a refresher in reading comprehension. Instead of projecting your pussy - ness, you might read my comment closer.
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2021, 07:43:39 AM
No.
They are safer than catching the disease, but not 100% safe for everyone. Just like nobody said vaccines are 100% effective. Heck, MILK isn't 100% safe for everyone.
What's your proof they are safer than catching Covid?
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2021, 07:57:24 AM
What's your proof they are safer than catching Covid?I have three local relatives that are doctors (MDs), not counting my wife who is a veterinarian.
I also have about 20 friends that are MDs.
They all work at the local hospital, or at least have privileges there. They all confirm to me that almost all the serious cases are unvaccinated. The serious cases of people that are vaccinated are almost always old people with co-morbidities.
Post by: Anthony on December 23, 2021, 08:08:27 AM
And that sample size is larger than someone's friends and relatives.
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2021, 08:19:10 AM
The VAST MAJORITY of ALL Covid cases that are serious and/or fatal are with people that are very old and have co-morbidities. ::)https://medicalpartnership.usg.edu/covid-19-staggering-statistic-98-to-99-of-americans-dying-are-unvaccinated/
And that sample size is larger than someone's friends and relatives.
Quote
Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated
This jives perfectly what my friends and relatives are seeing.
Post by: Lucifer on December 23, 2021, 08:21:24 AM
I have three local relatives that are doctors (MDs), not counting my wife who is a veterinarian.
I also have about 20 friends that are MDs.
They all work at the local hospital, or at least have privileges there. They all confirm to me that almost all the serious cases are unvaccinated. The serious cases of people that are vaccinated are almost always old people with co-morbidities.
My personal physician is now handling several vaccine injury cases. He has told me that the number of hospitalizations are vaccine injury related, and not covid related. He's also acknowledged that what covid hospitalizations he's dealt with, the majority are vaccinated.
Several professionals I know have vaccine injuries which have them grounded from flying, and they are uncertain of getting a medical back (ending their careers). And these people are middle aged, extremely healthy people with no comorbidities, and their physician have identified the injuries due to the vaccine.
I've not known anyone to die from Covid, or get seriously ill. I've had it which resulted in a very mild illness. My family members have had covid (older than me) and didn't have anything above a mild cold like symptom.
Another family member in his early 30's ended up in the ER after his first vaccination, and now has heart issues that wasn't present before.
Of course, in my examples I will be told it's all coincidental. But if a 300 pound male with diabetes ends up in the hospital and test positive for covid, we will be told he's there because of covid, and not for being overweight or the diabetes.
And we will be told those vaccinated that are dying are dying from something else, and definitely not covid.
Post by: Rush on December 23, 2021, 08:43:30 AM
I didn't say they are safe.
Rush said we are being told they are safe. I said "NO".
Perhaps you need a little remedial reading refresher course.
You need to turn up the volume on your sarcasm detector. Or maybe I should have used green font. :)
Post by: Number7 on December 23, 2021, 10:23:27 AM
If the shoe fits, you are going to be wearing it, like it , or not.
Post by: nddons on December 23, 2021, 10:45:31 AM
No.Joe Biden LITERALLY keeps telling us the vaccine is safe. So what are people to do? Not trust our president?
They are safer than catching the disease, but not 100% safe for everyone. Just like nobody said vaccines are 100% effective. Heck, MILK isn't 100% safe for everyone.
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2021, 10:53:43 AM
Joe Biden LITERALLY keeps telling us the vaccine is safe. So what are people to do? Not trust our president?Depends.
First, I don't trust much of what Biden says. And that is being generous.
And I don't believe you trust him either, regardless what he says about vaccines.
But it also depends on how you define the word "safe". Do you interpret that to mean 100% safe, for everyone, all the time?
I don't.
Ask your daughter if she considers animal vaccines safe. Then ask her how many animals have severe reactions, including death from those safe vaccines. Then be sure to ask her about feline Vaccine Associated Carsinoma from so-called "safe" vaccines.
Post by: Little Joe on December 23, 2021, 10:56:35 AM
You need to turn up the volume on your sarcasm detector. Or maybe I should have used green font. :)I guess I should have detected your sarcasm because I usually agree with you.
But on this site, where your sarcasm is considered gospel to most of the others, it is very difficult to tell. Just look at the reaction I got from challenging you.
The funny thing is, I agree with most of what those others are saying. Even the ones that are calling me a liberal pussy. I'm not a liberal puss damnit. I'm a conservative pussy.
Post by: Rush on December 23, 2021, 11:23:02 AM
I guess I should have detected your sarcasm because I usually agree with you.
But on this site, where your sarcasm is considered gospel to most of the others, it is very difficult to tell. Just look at the reaction I got from challenging you.
The funny thing is, I agree with most of what those others are saying. Even the ones that are calling me a liberal pussy. I'm not a liberal puss damnit. I'm a conservative pussy.
LOL! I know you’re not a liberal. And I know you agree with most about the vaccines when it comes to mandates, authoritarian overreach and so on. In fact I’m a little fuzzy on what the argument is, unless they are taking issue with you simply claiming they are safer than getting covid itself.
That part, I’m nuanced about. Safer in one way yes. For the most part, and for most people, especially older adults, your odds of dying or having serious heart or lung complications are greater from the disease than from the vaccine.
However, that is still only a minority of people. Most people, even the oldest, get over covid. You could have a death rate as high as 20% in a demographic and that still means 80% recover. And having had the actual disease, you have more robust immunity and so are much better off in the long run than if you’d gotten the vaccine. So from that standpoint, the vaccine is less safe than the disease. The vaccine leaves you more vulnerable to variants.
But does that mean I would refuse the vaccine if I were in the age group that has a 1 in 5 chance of dying if I get covid? Because I would have 4 out of 5 odds of ending up with better immunity? That’s a decision we should all be free to make. And there are complicating factors such as the evidence that very old people don’t build immune response well at all, to either the disease or the vaccine. Or maybe they do better to the disease IF they survive it. I doubt we are being told the truth if they’ve even sorted out this kind of stuff.
Post by: nddons on December 23, 2021, 12:00:23 PM
Depends.I’m not talking about me. I’m talking about the other 300+ million that Biden is talking to. Are they supposed to deny what Biden says, and do their own research? What about Pope Fauci? Literally half the country thinks he walks on water. Are we not supposed to believe him either? What the fuck?
First, I don't trust much of what Biden says. And that is being generous.
And I don't believe you trust him either, regardless what he says about vaccines.
But it also depends on how you define the word "safe". Do you interpret that to mean 100% safe, for everyone, all the time?
I don't.
Ask your daughter if she considers animal vaccines safe. Then ask her how many animals have severe reactions, including death from those safe vaccines. Then be sure to ask her about feline Vaccine Associated Carsinoma from so-called "safe" vaccines.
Post by: Anthony on December 23, 2021, 12:04:50 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 23, 2021, 12:07:15 PM
Post by: Anthony on December 23, 2021, 12:11:53 PM
Is flying small planes safe?
No. Neither is driving on public roads, playing football, hunting, fishing, eating fatty foods, marriage.............
What's your point?
Post by: Number7 on December 23, 2021, 12:21:30 PM
Is flying small planes safe?
Depends on the operator and how they are maintained, as well as any other operators out there.
So what?
Post by: Rush on December 23, 2021, 12:42:53 PM
Generally, flying is safe. Especially the major airlines. Statistically your chance of being killed on a part 121 flight are extremely tiny, like 1 in several million, so we call it “safe”. But the FAA thinks a pilot who got one DUI twenty years ago makes the flight “unsafe”. See how malleable the word is?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on December 23, 2021, 01:17:40 PM
Depends.
First, I don't trust much of what Biden says. And that is being generous.
And I don't believe you trust him either, regardless what he says about vaccines.
But it also depends on how you define the word "safe". Do you interpret that to mean 100% safe, for everyone, all the time?
I don't.
Ask your daughter if she considers animal vaccines safe. Then ask her how many animals have severe reactions, including death from those safe vaccines. Then be sure to ask her about feline Vaccine Associated Carsinoma from so-called "safe" vaccines.
Post by: jb1842 on December 23, 2021, 01:33:54 PM
Nothing is 100% safe. We use the word loosely and the definition is highly variable and changes over time.
Generally, flying is safe. Especially the major airlines. Statistically your chance of being killed on a part 121 flight are extremely tiny, like 1 in several million, so we call it “safe”. But the FAA thinks a pilot who got one DUI twenty years ago makes the flight “unsafe”. See how malleable the word is?
And the same FAA says that you can have no arms and fly with your feet as being safe, too. The FAA is so fucked up.
Post by: nddons on December 23, 2021, 06:26:42 PM
No. Neither is driving on public roads, playing football, hunting, fishing, eating fatty foods, marriage.............Neither is sitting on the couch and never leaving your home. That will kill you faster than flying a small aircraft.
What's your point?
Post by: nddons on December 23, 2021, 06:28:52 PM
And the same FAA says that you can have no arms and fly with your feet as being safe, too. The FAA is so fucked up.That chick bugs the shit out of me. The FAA made her a circus sideshow. There can be little that is safe with flying with your friggin feet.
Post by: Anthony on December 24, 2021, 03:59:36 AM
Neither is sitting on the couch and never leaving your home. That will kill you faster than flying a small aircraft.
That's kind of my point. LIFE isn't safe. If it were it wouldn't be fun nor rewarding as there'd be no challenges to overcome. Our skills keep us reasonably safe flying small planes and otherwise. This maniacal quest for complete safety has to fucking stop.
Post by: Rush on December 24, 2021, 04:38:41 AM
That's kind of my point. LIFE isn't safe. If it were it wouldn't be fun nor rewarding as there'd be no challenges to overcome. Our skills keep us reasonably safe flying small planes and otherwise. This maniacal quest for complete safety has to fucking stop.
Yes. It has turned us into a bunch of spineless pussies.
Post by: Mr Pou on December 24, 2021, 06:52:30 AM
Yes. It has turned us into a bunch of spineless pussies.
No, it's turned the young (especially young males) into spineless pussies. Which is of course part of the plan.
Post by: Lucifer on December 24, 2021, 07:01:58 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 24, 2021, 07:03:41 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 24, 2021, 07:06:03 AM
Post by: Anthony on December 24, 2021, 08:30:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mGTwrtF.jpg)
Best one I've seen yet.
Post by: Rush on December 24, 2021, 08:46:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mGTwrtF.jpg)
This will completely fly over the heads of most young people.
Post by: nddons on December 24, 2021, 08:57:06 AM
This will completely fly over the heads of most young people.True. How sad is that. I wasn’t alive then, but my dad fought the Nazis, and in grade school history classes I couldn’t square in my head how such evil existed when my dad was in his late teens and early twenties, and he had to go thousands of miles from Chicago to fight it.
Post by: Lucifer on December 24, 2021, 09:54:53 AM
Quote
Big Pharma’s Five Major Minions that Everyone, Vaxxed or Unvaxxed, Must Oppose
This is not an "anti-vaxxer" article, per se. It's a call for everyone to wake up to the nefarious motives behind vaccine mandates, booster shots, and condemnation of freedom.
by JD Rucker
September 26, 2021
The worst kept secret in world history SHOULD be that the unquenchable push for universal vaccinations against Covid-19 has little if anything to do with healthcare and everything to do with Big Pharma’s influence over the narrative. Unfortunately, that secret has stayed firmly hidden from the vast majority of people because of the five major minions working on behalf of Big Pharma.
What’s even worse is the fact that Big Pharma’s greed is merely a smokescreen to hide an even darker secret. We’ll tackle that later. First, let’s look at the public-facing ringleaders behind the vaccine push, namely Big Pharma. But before we get into their five major minions, it’s important to understand one thing. This is NOT just an article that speaks to the unvaccinated. Even those who believe in the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines must be made aware of agenda that’s at play.
Let’s start with some facts. The unvaccinated do NOT spread Covid-19 more rampantly than the vaccinated. Even Anthony Fauci acknowledged the viral load present in vaccinated people is just as high as in the unvaccinated. This fact alone should demolish the vaccine mandates as it demonstrates they have absolutely no effect on the spread of the disease. But wait! There’s definitely more.
This unhinged push to vaccinate everyone defies science. Those with natural immunity may actually have their stronger defenses against Covid-19 hampered by the introduction of the injections which fool the body into creating less-effective antibodies. Moreover, the push to vaccinate young people is completely bonkers. The recovery rate for those under the age of 20 is astronomical. Children neither contract, spread, nor succumb to Covid-19 in a statistically meaningful way. What they DO succumb to more often than Covid-19 are the adverse reactions to the vaccines, particularly boys.
All of this is known and accepted by the medical community, yet most Americans are still following the vaccinate-everybody script. It requires pure cognitive dissonance and an overabundant need for confirmation bias to make doctors and scientists willingly go along with the program. Yet, here we are and that should tell you something.
Who does Big Pharma control? It starts with the obvious people, the ones who most Americans believe are actually behind this push.
Our governments at all levels as well as governments around the world are not working with Big Pharma. They are working for Big Pharma. Some are proactive as direct recipients of cash. Others may oppose Big Pharma in spirit but would never speak out because they know anyone who does has no future in DC.
This may come as a shock to some, but it’s Big Pharma that drives the narrative and sets the agenda for the “experts” at the CDC, FDA, WHO, NIH, NIAID, and even non-medical government organizations.
Most believe it’s the other way around. They think that Big Pharma is beholden to the FDA for approval, but that’s not exactly the case. They need approval for a majority of their projects, but when it comes to the important ones such as the Covid injections, Big Pharma is calling the shots. They have the right people in the right places to push their machinations forward.
That’s not to say that everyone at the FDA is in on it. Big Pharma only needs a handful of friendlies planted in leadership in order to have their big wishes met. We have seen people quitting the FDA in recent weeks for this very reason. The same can be said about the other three- and five-letter agencies. Too many people in leadership have been bribed, bullied, or blackmailed into becoming occasional shills for the various Big Pharma corporations. Some have even been directly planted by Big Pharma. That’s the politics of healthcare and science that drives such things as Covid-19 “vaccines.”
Mainstream media and Big Tech are the next two on the list of Big Pharma minions. We’ll cover them together since both have the role of being “arbiters of truth,” amplifying what supports the narrative du jour and suppressing anything that opposes it. It’s blatantly obvious based upon their actions, including an unwillingness to cover adverse reactions. They’ve been ordered to push the agenda and to censor anything that goes against it. That means quashing anyone who openly talks about the inefficacy of the drugs. It means absolute censorship of those who discuss the unambiguous risks associated with the injections.
This is why it’s a very sad thing that many if not most in conservative media have self-censored discussions about the vaccines. They know their Google Adsense accounts will be banned, cutting them off from the biggest revenue teat for their websites. They know Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and others will blacklist their content, cutting off their biggest suppliers of traffic. They might carefully report news about the vaccines from time to time, but they dare not speak out directly against them.
The blacklist must be avoided at all costs for these conservative sites. This is why we are extremely proud to have no obligations nor dependency on Big Tech. Yes, we could double our revenue if we just kept our mouths shut about vaccines, voter fraud, and the like, but doing so would require abandoning our conscience… and the truth. This is why we are so dependent on donations, probably much more so than other publications who also ask for help. Please donate here or through PayPal if you appreciate our stance.
Academia is the fourth minion of Big Pharma. The indoctrination factories they call public schools, colleges, and universities have been rapidly opening up to the agendas sent to them from the architects of The Great Reset for decades, long before The Great Reset even had a name. Their vision of a Neo-Marxist future requires complete compliance, dependence, and acceptance of government power. No mandate is severe enough for academics. No law goes far enough. They are the people who have manufactured the obedience we’re seeing in America today, an obedience that would never have been possible just a generation ago.
Some may wonder what their role is in helping Big Pharma. They set the standards for how society will be in the future by brainwashing young people into the authoritarian mindset. Their creeping Neo-Marxist push has fomented into a full-blown revolution, one that does not require or even want guns. They train children to defer to authority in all forms.
As mentioned above, there is no reason to vaccinate young people. There is also no reason for children to wear face masks. They are physically and psychologically damaging today, but the generation of compliant adults that they’re breeding as a result will operate like terrified drones, assuming we even survive as a nation for that future to come to be.
The final major minion of Big Pharma requires no incentive. They are willing and active participants in the conspiracy, and in their minds they’re simply “doing their part” because “we’re all in this together” and “we can get life back to normal if we all comply.” You may already know the group to which I’m referring. It’s the vaxx-nannies. The useful idiots. The average, everyday Americans who have been exposed to enough propaganda and fearmongering to make them willing to do anything if it will get America near 100% vaxxed.
That’s not to say that anyone who has taken the jabs falls into this category. Most do not. They got their shots for whatever reason and they’re going about their business.
The useful idiots are the people who remain as uneducated about the vaccines as possible. If you are a vaccine skeptic, you may come across some of these people. They go after you if they see you in public without a mask. They don’t want to hear anything you have to say about the science. Any time you say anything about the vaccines, they’ll ask you if you’re a doctor. These are the Faucists, the feeble-minded folks who are often the most challenging to break free from their cult.
By “feeble-minded,” I’m not saying they’re necessarily stupid. There are many otherwise intelligent people who push the vaccines as if society will collapse any minute because YOU’RE not vaccinated. Their minds were either feeble and susceptible to suggestion before Pandemic Panic Theater began or they’ve been rendered so by the incessant nagging from the aforementioned four other major minions.
All five of these groups work directly or indirectly for Big Pharma. That should be where the story ends, but there’s a bigger question that needs to be asked even if I can’t supply a full answer. I mentioned in the beginning that Big Pharma’s greed is merely a smokescreen to hide an even darker secret. I also mentioned The Great Reset, which is an open declaration of the goals of the powers-that-be.
The question that needs to be answered is who is pulling Big Pharma’s strings? If this were simply about greed and control, I believe we could defeat it easily with the constant drumbeat of the truth. But if 2020 and 2021 have taught us anything, it’s that the truth does not necessarily rise above the fray the way it used to in the recent past.
The truth coming from Israel and the United Kingdom should have demolished vaccine mandates before they even began. The truth coming from Sweden should be opening up schools and places of business without restrictions. The truth in the data here in the United States should have made us reverse course long ago on the vaccines altogether. Instead, we’re seeing everything pushing forward despite these truths.
That cannot be driven by Big Pharma’s greed alone. What proponents of The Great Reset and adherents to Neo-Marxism rarely say out loud is that to achieve their goals requires the complete implosion of the systems that make America strong and keep our nation operating. Capitalism, freedom, personal responsibility, innovation, incentive, and exceptionalism have served this nation and western society in general exceedingly well over the decades.
The architects of The Great Reset and their Neo-Marxist partners do not feel that way about these tenets. They believe a brighter future requires fundamental changes in the entirety of the world. Those changes must start with the United States if they have hopes of accomplishing their goals.
In short, they must destroy the foundations of America completely in order to attempt to build it back up to match their visions. If they get their way, there will be the need for Modern Monetary Theory to reign. We’re already seeing it today with the massive spending bills being pushed on Capitol Hill. They’re only going to get bigger if we don’t put a stop to it.
This brings us back to Big Pharma. The vaccines may be killers in both the short term and far worse in the long term. They may be variant magnets, attracting whatever Greek letter is next on the list. I don’t want to dismiss any theories that I cannot debunk, but I do want to focus on the less-conspiratorial use of the vaccines and how they would fit into the nefarious machinations of the powers-that-be.
With mandates and passports already in play, a future is being built in which perpetual boosters will be requirements for access to society. If one wants to live in the “new normal” they’re building, they’ll need to show their papers. Today, it’s quickly becoming “no jab, no job.” Tomorrow, it will be “no jab, no food or housing.”
Those who have been “fully vaccinated” today will no longer be considered so in the near future. If they want to continue to enjoy the privileges given to members of the vaxxed club, they’ll need to get their booster. Then, they’ll need to get their next boosters. And as the frequency of boosters increases, society’s collapse will be in full-swing.
Big Pharma is greedy, but that’s just capitalism. They’re also corrupt, as are the government officials and bureaucrats beholden to them. But the fact that our best efforts have barely been able to slow the mandate train tells us the greater agenda is driving it all. So, if Big Pharma is calling the shots, who’s pulling their strings? That’s the question that needs to be answered, and at this point anything I offer is mere speculation.
This is not all doom and gloom, though I can understand if it seems that way. Those with a Biblical worldview knows how the story ends, and for that we should rejoice even if we are, indeed, in the end times. Those who do not hold such a view still know that we have a hard fight against very powerful foes, and it’s a fight that we might even lose. Either way, our mission remains the same. We need to spread the truth, counteract their plans in any legal we can, and unite to put forth the strongest possible opposition.
However bad you think it is, it’s probably worse. However good you think it can be if we can defeat the powers-that-be, it’s almost certainly better than that. We fight the good fight because doing otherwise is certain defeat.
Post by: Lucifer on December 24, 2021, 11:37:25 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 25, 2021, 06:33:43 AM
Post by: bflynn on December 25, 2021, 12:38:29 PM
So please, would all of you non vaccinated people go ahead and get it over with it so we can take the power away from Biden?
Post by: Anthony on December 26, 2021, 03:56:45 AM
The sacrifice of every U.S. soldier who died or was wounded is in vain if that is true. Those people are throwing it away and spitting on them.
Fuck them.
That's what I think. I have NO PROBLEM with people getting vaccinated and/or boostered. Why do they want to force me? It doesn't prevent spreading. It only has potential benefits to the INDIVIDUAL. Fucking, brainwashed, indoctrinated Fascist Control Freaks.
Post by: Rush on December 26, 2021, 04:07:26 AM
That's what I think. I have NO PROBLEM with people getting vaccinated and/or boostered. Why do they want to force me? It doesn't prevent spreading. It only has potential benefits to the INDIVIDUAL. Fucking, brainwashed, indoctrinated Fascist Control Freaks.
You necroed something I said way back in April? What was I talking about? Not that I don’t agree with you.
Post by: Anthony on December 26, 2021, 05:56:20 AM
You necroed something I said way back in April? What was I talking about? Not that I don’t agree with you.
Watch it lady. I'm a Moderator.
Post by: Rush on December 26, 2021, 06:18:04 AM
Watch it lady. I'm a Moderator.
Yeah but you’re not like PoA. They delete posts for no apparent reason, as happened to me yesterday.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 26, 2021, 06:46:57 AM
Yeah but you’re not like PoA. They delete posts for no apparent reason, as happened to me yesterday.
otoh - Anthony has admitted to occassionaly hitting the wrong button and inadvertently deleting a post.
btw - what post of yours got canned?
Post by: Rush on December 26, 2021, 07:19:00 AM
otoh - Anthony has admitted to occassionaly hitting the wrong button and inadvertently deleting a post.
btw - what post of yours got canned?
In medical matters, the thread where somebody got covid. Somebody else asked something about testing. Can’t remember exactly what they said. It may have been along the lines of why are we testing so much. I quoted that post and said I have allergies and a runny nose 365 days a year and I’m vaccinated so if I got a very mild case of covid where the only symptom is a runny nose, how would I know? Should I test myself every day? If I did that, the rate of false positives would ensure I’d come up positive sooner or later whether or not I actually had covid. So suppose that happened but I never was sick enough to go to the doctor. Would I need to report that at my next medical?
That was a serious question. Both that post and the one I quoted were deleted. I asked the mods and they said they deleted the first one and they have to delete posts that quote a deleted one so that’s why mine was deleted.
I can’t remember exactly what that post said but it was benign. It wasn’t political or argumentative. It didn’t insult anybody or use obscene language or violate any of the RoC. At very worst it was questioning whether we are testing too much for covid.
Pretty sure that’s the only possible thing they deleted it for… they questioned how much we are testing for covid. They didn’t even say anything about why that might be a bad thing. Unless the person edited the post and added something else I didn’t see.
So, I have to conclude that the mods aren’t merely enforcing the RoC, they are actively censoring any thought not strictly conforming to proper groupthink - we are not allowed to question anything related to what the government is doing related to covid, even something as seemingly innocent as asking when it is and is not appropriate to test for the disease.
Post by: Lucifer on December 26, 2021, 07:30:53 AM
Why do they want to force me?
Because Pfizer and Moderna are counting on another year of record profits.
Post by: Number7 on December 26, 2021, 07:33:33 AM
Their fear of free thought is so pervasive that they actually believe there is nothing wrong with censoring anything bu the communist party line.
Those pussies are so delusional that they believe they are being good citizens shutting down discussion that swerves off the communist platform.
Their hair must spontaneously combust when they lurk here and read honest thoughts not censored by their communist brethren. No doubt they really hate the thought of people anywhere thinking for themselves.
Post by: Rush on December 26, 2021, 08:00:22 AM
The modern liberal is nothing but a robotic communist, walking in lockstep with whatever bullshit the communist party is pushing.
Their fear of free thought is so pervasive that they actually believe there is nothing wrong with censoring anything bu the communist party line.
Those pussies are so delusional that they believe they are being good citizens shutting down discussion that swerves off the communist platform.
Their hair must spontaneously combust when they lurk here and read honest thoughts not censored by their communist brethren. No doubt they really hate the thought of people anywhere thinking for themselves.
Yes, and it’s interesting to see the evolution of “liberal”. It began in Europe where to be liberal meant being against authoritarian rule (the feudal system) and for common men being involved in government (ie “democracy”).
When the U.S. was born “liberal” was what today looks more like a conservative. Break away from the ruling aristocracy and set up a Constitutional Republic with safeguards against a centralized authority growing too strong.
In the 1960s a “liberal” was someone who rebelled against social conservatism (sexual Puritanism, laws against drugs, etc.) but also rebelled against the MIC and were again for the common man against the ruling class. Some promoted “pure” communism and socialism, that is, something closer to individualist anarchy. (I am speaking of the bean sprout flower children not the political class, who instituted actual socialist programs.)
Now, the liberal is sold out to real communism, the one that has an elite ruling class that hoards all power and wealth to itself, and we have come full circle except now the liberal is on the wrong side. The modern liberal sees himself as a noble living within the castle grounds (cities) and holds contempt for the common serfs out in the country, even as they are the ones producing all the food and energy supporting the castle.
The modern liberal is the exact reverse of the original idea. He is against freedom of the common man. He is for exploiting the common man, and if he himself is not one of the elite, but also a common man, he is mindlessly subservient to leftist dogma like a sick religious cult.
Post by: nddons on December 26, 2021, 08:08:47 AM
In medical matters, the thread where somebody got covid. Somebody else asked something about testing. Can’t remember exactly what they said. It may have been along the lines of why are we testing so much. I quoted that post and said I have allergies and a runny nose 365 days a year and I’m vaccinated so if I got a very mild case of covid where the only symptom is a runny nose, how would I know? Should I test myself every day? If I did that, the rate of false positives would ensure I’d come up positive sooner or later whether or not I actually had covid. So suppose that happened but I never was sick enough to go to the doctor. Would I need to report that at my next medical?What kind of tyrannical freak has the time or energy to spend their free time moderating a forum, for no pay?
That was a serious question. Both that post and the one I quoted were deleted. I asked the mods and they said they deleted the first one and they have to delete posts that quote a deleted one so that’s why mine was deleted.
I can’t remember exactly what that post said but it was benign. It wasn’t political or argumentative. It didn’t insult anybody or use obscene language or violate any of the RoC. At very worst it was questioning whether we are testing too much for covid.
Pretty sure that’s the only possible thing they deleted it for… they questioned how much we are testing for covid. They didn’t even say anything about why that might be a bad thing. Unless the person edited the post and added something else I didn’t see.
So, I have to conclude that the mods aren’t merely enforcing the RoC, they are actively censoring any thought not strictly conforming to proper groupthink - we are not allowed to question anything related to what the government is doing related to covid, even something as seemingly innocent as asking when it is and is not appropriate to test for the disease.
Post by: Lucifer on December 26, 2021, 08:12:29 AM
What kind of tyrannical freak has the time or energy to spend their free time moderating a forum, for no pay?
One that has no life..
Post by: Lucifer on December 26, 2021, 08:13:25 AM
100% vaccinated crew, ship has a Covid outbreak. ::) :o
Post by: Rush on December 26, 2021, 08:46:17 AM
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/24/navy-warship-milwaukee-covid-526138
100% vaccinated crew, ship has a Covid outbreak. ::) :o
If 98% of sailors have been vaccinated then covid should be eradicated among them. It’s not, many are still getting sick. That is proof enough that we CANNOT eradicate this disease. We need to accept it as with us permanently, evolving to become more contagious and less deadly just like any minor cold, stop with all the fear mongering and social distancing, open everything up and get back to normal.
But the branch covidians are going to hang on to this nightmare for dear life, just like an abused spouse, pathologically dependent on the tyrant controlling her.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 26, 2021, 08:55:04 AM
Post by: Lucifer on December 26, 2021, 09:03:08 AM
Post by: Anthony on December 26, 2021, 09:45:21 AM
Yeah but you’re not like PoA. They delete posts for no apparent reason, as happened to me yesterday.
I was kidding. This entire site needs to lighten up and just have some fun! Of course nobody deletes post on purpose here.
I do quote and give Likes to myself though.
Post by: Anthony on December 26, 2021, 09:46:04 AM
Do sailors on a ship have to wear masks?
Only when they get kinky with each other.
Post by: Rush on December 26, 2021, 09:58:32 AM
I was kidding. This entire site needs to lighten up and just have some fun! Of course nobody deletes post on purpose here.
I do quote and give Likes to myself though.
Hahaha!
I know you were kidding.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on December 26, 2021, 10:35:07 AM
...
That was a serious question. Both that post and the one I quoted were deleted. I asked the mods and they said they deleted the first one and they have to delete posts that quote a deleted one so that’s why mine was deleted.
I can’t remember exactly what that post said but it was benign. ...
I remember your post, but, don't quite remember the post you quoted. Certainly nothing that seemed a violation.
And, definitely, the POA mods tend to delete any post that quotes a so-called "offensive" post. However, last I knew, it was a manual process.
and, absolutely, you had a perfectly valid question.
Post by: Old Crow on December 26, 2021, 10:52:39 AM
Post by: Anthony on December 26, 2021, 11:56:03 AM
I had a friend say the same thing. Really hard to keep my mouth shut over that. I could argue, but I would end up wasting oxygen.
These people are just Fascists.
Post by: Anthony on December 26, 2021, 11:57:43 AM
Hahaha!
I know you were kidding.
I know. I wasn't referring to you specifically. ;D
Post by: bflynn on December 27, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Why do they want to force me?
Reaching back for this one - because they are afraid and they are operating in fear, trying to save themselves from any risk You can't be permitted to not wear a mask, even if your risk of spreading it is .001% because you have been freshly boosted and isolated for 2 weeks. That .001% is too high for them.
Post by: Lucifer on December 28, 2021, 06:52:25 AM
Post by: Number7 on December 28, 2021, 07:21:49 AM
Only an idiot would fail to question the outright fraud in how the medical profession has been corrupted over the scamdemic and fraudulent vaccines.
Post by: Lucifer on December 28, 2021, 01:09:00 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on December 28, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 07, 2022, 07:46:17 AM
An ICU doctor confirms what really we’ve all known or suspected.
And now I see that the World Council for Health is calling for an immediate halt to mass vaccination.
Post by: Rush on January 07, 2022, 08:32:55 AM
https://gab.com/briangpowellms/posts/107580272128052169
An ICU doctor confirms what really we’ve all known or suspected.
And now I see that the World Council for Health is calling for an immediate halt to mass vaccination.
Thank God my own doctor has seen the light and now treats immediately.
Post by: bflynn on January 08, 2022, 06:45:01 AM
Anytime people are coerced into taking a drug the way Americans are being coerced, you already know it has nothing to do with medicine.
Ah, so true. Those MMR and polio vaccines are also complete scams, it’s all about the control! Smallpox? Diphtheria? Hepatitis? Tetanus? Shingles? Pfffft, let everyone else take those things, keep your body pure. Far better to take your chances with the real they, they almost never kill you.
Post by: Number7 on January 08, 2022, 07:58:22 AM
Ah, so true. Those MMR and polio vaccines are also complete scams, it’s all about the control! Smallpox? Diphtheria? Hepatitis? Tetanus? Shingles? Pfffft, let everyone else take those things, keep your body pure. Far better to take your chances with the real they, they almost never kill you.
Congratulations.
You've proven my hypothesis that you are nothing more than a liberal, uninformed, mouthpiece for stupidity.
(helpless, pathetic, morons should not vote)
By the way, did POS michael weinstein steal your log-in? You sure post like him.
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2022, 09:01:48 AM
Ah, so true. Those MMR and polio vaccines are also complete scams, it’s all about the control! Smallpox? Diphtheria? Hepatitis? Tetanus? Shingles? Pfffft, let everyone else take those things, keep your body pure. Far better to take your chances with the real they, they almost never kill you.
Capitalism and the big drug companies have brought us wonderful things. Thank God for the innovation of intelligent men and the “evil rich” who fund them.
But unfettered capitalism can lead to greed, especially when it’s no longer private investors funding development but taxpayers through government. There is no risk. Capitalism only works when you have risk and a profit motive enticing people to take that risk. With no risk and only profit motive, greed becomes malignant. There are no brakes on the covid vaccine cash cow. That is the difference between it and other beneficial drugs, although I don’t know who funded all the vaccines. Polio Salk was funded by March of Dimes. Smallpox actually had been known for centuries before formally patented. Nevertheless the level of greed with covid vastly exceeds any of the previous vaccines. There is no push for mandatory boosters to fly or eat at restaurants for any of the vaccines other than covid.
We are seeing a unique corruption of power and money that has little to do with the real risk of covid, which is far less than those other diseases.
Post by: Lucifer on January 08, 2022, 09:34:48 AM
Post by: Anthony on January 08, 2022, 11:20:42 AM
Capitalism and the big drug companies have brought us wonderful things. Thank God for the innovation of intelligent men and the “evil rich” who fund them.
But unfettered capitalism can lead to greed, especially when it’s no longer private investors funding development but taxpayers through government. There is no risk. Capitalism only works when you have risk and a profit motive enticing people to take that risk. With no risk and only profit motive, greed becomes malignant. There are no brakes on the covid vaccine cash cow. That is the difference between it and other beneficial drugs, although I don’t know who funded all the vaccines. Polio Salk was funded by March of Dimes. Smallpox actually had been known for centuries before formally patented. Nevertheless the level of greed with covid vastly exceeds any of the previous vaccines. There is no push for mandatory boosters to fly or eat at restaurants for any of the vaccines other than covid.
We are seeing a unique corruption of power and money that has little to do with the real risk of covid, which is far less than those other diseases.
It's not just the Covid faux vaccines. It's Electric Vehicles globally and forcing people to buy them through limitations and banning of ICE Vehicles. Elite vs everyone else.
Post by: bflynn on January 08, 2022, 06:40:39 PM
Capitalism and the big drug companies ...
Sorry, forgot the green text. I guess I figured the sarcasm was obvious.
Post by: Rush on January 08, 2022, 07:43:26 PM
Sorry, forgot the green text. I guess I figured the sarcasm was obvious.
I got the sarcasm. I was just saying.
Post by: Lucifer on January 15, 2022, 07:58:11 AM
Post by: Lucifer on January 18, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
https://palexander.substack.com/p/453-athlete-cardiac-arrests-serious
Post by: nddons on January 18, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
Nothing to see here...........just all coincidences..........nothing more. (standing by for the statisticians and fact checkers to chime in)Anecdotal. No peer review. Not blessed by Fauci. What are you, a conspiracy theorist sir?
https://palexander.substack.com/p/453-athlete-cardiac-arrests-serious
(No green font in Tapatalk)
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 18, 2022, 10:10:22 AM
Nothing to see here...........just all coincidences..........nothing more. (standing by for the statisticians and fact checkers to chime in)
https://palexander.substack.com/p/453-athlete-cardiac-arrests-serious
The CDC has been aware of that danger for months - they just don't give a shit:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html)
Post by: bflynn on January 18, 2022, 03:30:33 PM
The CDC has been aware of that danger for months - they just don't give a shit:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html)
I wouldn't say they didn't care. They started seeing things in April and put a warning on the product 2 months later. As of October of last year, there's been 136 cases in the United States and only a few deaths. Obviously we'd like to have zero deaths, but it isn't like they were hiding it. The CDC is working on risk management. They are seeing higher rates of myocarditis, but not nearly as deadly as covid itself. Therefore, they provide a warning that this could happen.
The break down comes when oppressive governments want to force people to take the vaccine despite their reluctance. That goes beyond bad government, it is evil.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 18, 2022, 07:52:01 PM
Quote
Almost all of these can be accounted for due accidentally injecting it into a blood vessel. It usually follows a bad taste within seconds of the injection. There is a simple step when giving the shot... aspirate before injection. Basically pull back on the plunger, if it pulls blood stop, remove and start again with a clean shot because if it's in the muscle it will not pull blood.
The who/CDC says do not inject it into a blood vessel, but then says you do not need to aspirate before injection... You can't verify it's not in a blood vessel without that step and thus the CDC and WHO policy is the primary cause of the heart infections after a vaccine.
Post by: Number7 on January 18, 2022, 07:54:59 PM
It's what they do.
And stupid people will always show up and repeat the latest bullshit lies.
We have some here, pretending to be logical and serious, while bullshitting just like the assclown in the White House.
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 18, 2022, 08:25:47 PM
Honestly, stop the shots. Just stop.
Post by: Jim Logajan on January 18, 2022, 08:31:58 PM
Posted as a response to a FB post I did today about a young tennis player that got myocarditus after getting a boost.
I think it was months ago when I first saw the theory that the cause might be accidental injection into a vein instead of muscle tissue. If that were the case the theory would also need to account for why (if I recall correctly) the cases don't appear in similar rates across all age groups.
Post by: Rush on January 18, 2022, 08:58:49 PM
Posted as a response to a FB post I did today about a young tennis player that got myocarditus after getting a boost.
Interesting!
Post by: Lucifer on January 29, 2022, 06:33:47 AM
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-whistleblowers-share-dod-medical-data-that-blows-vaccine-safety-debate-wide-open
Quote
Data, transparency, and surveillance. That is what has been missing from the greatest experiment on humans of all time throughout this pandemic. Now, military medical whistleblowers have come forward with what they claim is perhaps the most accurate and revealing data set on vaccine safety one could possibly find.
The pro-pharma politicians and media claim the CDC’s pharmacosurveillance tool “VAERS” is not good enough to trigger investigations into the shots because anyone can supposedly submit a vaccine adverse event entry. Thus, all the concerning safety signals from VAERS are being ignored, even though that system was put in place as a consolation to the public for absolving vaccine manufacturers of liability. Well, now some military whistleblowers are coming forward to present data that, if verified, would signal extremely disturbing safety concerns about the vaccine that make the VAERS data look like child’s play.
On Monday, during Sen. Ron Johnson’s five-hour hearing on a “COVID-19: Second Opinion,” Ohio attorney Thomas Renz, who has been representing clients suing the vaccine mandates, presented DOD medical billing data from the Defense Medical Epidemiology Database (DMED) that paints a shockingly disturbing picture of the health of our service members in 2021.
According to the military, DMED is the Armed Forces Health Surveillance Branch’s (AFHSB) “web-based tool to remotely query de-identified active component personnel and medical event data contained within the Defense Medical Surveillance System (DMSS).” In other words, it contains every ICD medical billing code for any medical diagnosis in the military submitted for medical insurance billing during any given period of time. Three military doctors have presented queried data to Renz that shows a shocking and sudden spike in nearly every ICD code for common vaccine injuries in 2021.
In a declaration under penalty of perjury that Renz plans to use in federal court, Drs. Samuel Sigoloff, Peter Chambers, and Theresa Long — three military doctors — revealed that there has been a 300% increase in DMED codes registered for miscarriages in the military in 2021 over the five-year average. The five-year average was 1,499 codes for miscarriages per year. During the first 10 months of 2021, it was 4,182. As Renz explained to me in an interview with TheBlaze, these doctors queried the numbers for hundreds of codes from 2016 through 2020 to establish a baseline five-year average. These codes were generally for ailments and injuries that medical literature has established as being potential adverse effects of the vaccines.
Renz told me the numbers tended to be remarkably similar in all those preceding years, including in 2020, which was the first year of the pandemic but before the vaccines were distributed. But then in 2021, the numbers skyrocketed, and the 2021 data doesn’t even include the months of November and December. For example, some public health officials speculate that COVID itself places women at higher risk for miscarriages. But the number of miscarriage codes recorded in 2020 was actually slightly below the five-year average (1,477). However, they were not drastically below the average on any one category in a way that one can suggest it reflects lockdown-related decreases in doctor’s visits, which somehow led to an increase in 2021 diagnoses.
The database has all the ICD codes for both military hospital visits and ambulatory visits. The data presented by Renz so far is all from the query of ambulatory diagnosis data.
Aside from the spike in miscarriage diagnoses (ICD code O03 for spontaneous abortions), there was an almost 300% increase in cancer diagnoses (from a five-year average of 38,700 per year to 114,645 in the first 11 months of 2021). There was also a 1,000% increase in diagnosis codes for neurological issues, which increased from a baseline average of 82,000 to 863,000!
Some other numbers he did not mention at the hearing but gave to me in the interview are the following:
myocardial infarction –269% increase
Bell’s palsy – 291% increase
congenital malformations (for children of military personnel) – 156% increase
female infertility – 471% increase
pulmonary embolisms – 467% increase
All these numbers are among the ambulatory visits because those are where the vast number of diagnoses in the military occur. However, Renz did say the increases were indicated in the hospitalized patients as well. I have seen one of the sworn declarations from one of the military doctors, and it states as follows, “It is my professional opinion that the major increases incidences of the above discussed instances of miscarriages, cancers, and disease were due to COVID-19 ‘vaccinations.'"
According to Renz, it was the actual clinical experience of the three named doctors and several unnamed doctors that led them to investigate DMED, and their discoveries reflected their experience treating patients with ailments extremely unusual to healthy, young soldiers since the rollout of the vaccines.
I have spoken to one of the whistleblowers who attests to being gravely concerned with seeing young soldiers with sudden metastatic cancers, auto-immune diseases, and heart and circulatory disorders that have caused many soldiers to drop out of various training programs. “These doctors were motivated to explore DMED data due to the numbers of case increases they were seeing empirically,” said the whistleblower, who served in the military for many years. “Some physicians throughout the force (all branches) have been intimidated by commands not to perform the full spectrum of testing and adhere to the regulations, which implicitly direct full workups for EUA vaccination adverse reactions. It will require other military physicians to step forward and share experiences to fully ascertain the enormity of these allegations and engender an investigation to the fullest extent.”
Renz claims he has a video with two witnesses showing the entire process of downloading this data from the database and is prepared to present it in court. He also told me that this is just “the tip of the iceberg,” as the codes have increased exponentially in numerous other diagnosis categories. Renz said his spreadsheet, which includes over 100 medical diagnosis categories, was shared with Senator Johnson and his staff before the Monday hearing.
It’s important to note that these numbers do not represent the number of individual people diagnosed with various ailments, but number of diagnoses codes used in totality at a given time. For example, someone who has a stroke is obviously going to rack up numerous neurological ICD codes over the course of a year with multiple ambulatory and hospital visits. However, the apples-to-apples comparison from the previous five years clearly shows an unmistakable spike in ailments.
If these numbers are verified in the upcoming court cases, then absent some massive military insurance fraud or bizarre glitch in the system, it potentially paints a shocking picture of vaccine safety concerns that would indicate that not only were the VAERS safety signals something that should immediately have been followed up on, but they are plagued by woeful underreporting. The military is a defined, finite, and closely controlled and monitored population. They are also overwhelmingly young and healthy. If allegations of neurological, cardio, and cancer concerns surrounding the vaccines are indeed true, the military would be the most revealing place to discover it, and their data is the most reliable and undisputable.
DMED is quite literally an epidemiological surveillance program designed for the express purpose of detecting surges in illness and injury to make sure the military is combat-ready. It’s about national security even more than public health. Why would the military not have blown the whistle and warned the CDC right away about this data? On the military health system website, the Armed Forces Health Surveillance Division (AFHSD) is described as “the central epidemiologic resource for the U.S. Armed Forces, conducting medical surveillance to protect those who serve our nation in uniform and allies who are critical to our national security interests.”
How could the blaring and glaring surveillance signals of a lifetime be ignored by the Defense Health Agency (DHA), and how was this not conveyed to the general public? The question is why the military public health analysts have not been communicating with military doctors about the shocking spikes in diagnoses this year and why they have not put out any analysis explaining it.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on January 29, 2022, 07:10:01 AM
Post by: bflynn on January 29, 2022, 08:33:36 AM
Some more triggering for the Branch Covidians:
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-whistleblowers-share-dod-medical-data-that-blows-vaccine-safety-debate-wide-open
I thought he was just a media whore?
Post by: Lucifer on January 29, 2022, 08:39:59 AM
I thought he was just a media whore?
Daniel Horowitz wrote the article. You obviously didn't bother to read it.
And BTW, Blaze Media is not owned by Glenn Beck. He sold out when he ran it into the ground, and CRTV acquired it.
Post by: Little Joe on January 29, 2022, 10:36:43 AM
The Good news is that 13 out of 22 employees got COVID, but none of them had to admitted to the hospital. Of course though, they are all relatively young and healthy. Several of them did get so sick they couldn't come back to work for a week or two after testing negative, but it was no worse than the flu. Although a few times I got the flu, and I thought I was going to die, so no worse than the flu can still be pretty bad.
The interesting part though is that of the 22 employees:
Only 8 were vaccinated and none of them got the virus.
Of the 14 that did NOT get the vaccine, 13 got sick (but recovered).
Now, theoretically all of them have some immunity. So even if nobody got the shot, they would probably all have survived without the trillions of dollars spent on vaccines.
Post by: nddons on January 29, 2022, 12:37:03 PM
I visited the business today that I sold 6 years ago. They had an interesting COVID story.The same thing happened in my daughter’s vet clinic. Many people got it, vaxed and unvaxed. My daughter got it and was really sick, but no breathing problems. Nobody required hospitalization.
The Good news is that 13 out of 22 employees got COVID, but none of them had to admitted to the hospital. Of course though, they are all relatively young and healthy. Several of them did get so sick they couldn't come back to work for a week or two after testing negative, but it was no worse than the flu. Although a few times I got the flu, and I thought I was going to die, so no worse than the flu can still be pretty bad.
The interesting part though is that of the 22 employees:
Only 8 were vaccinated and none of them got the virus.
Of the 14 that did NOT get the vaccine, 13 got sick (but recovered).
Now, theoretically all of them have some immunity. So even if nobody got the shot, they would probably all have survived without the trillions of dollars spent on vaccines.
There’s nothing theoretical about having natural immunity. That’s the gold standard of immunity. Because veterinarians are trained in public health matters as good or more than MDs (particularly if you were trained as a food animal vet), vets understand herd immunity. She’s currently dating an MD, and he coined the term “Gold standard” for natural immunity.
Post by: Little Joe on January 29, 2022, 01:13:21 PM
The theoretical part was talking about the people that got their vaccination about a year ago. i'm sure they still have some immunity, but I don't know how much or how effective it is against the variants.
There’s nothing theoretical about having natural immunity.
Post by: Rush on January 29, 2022, 01:22:40 PM
The theoretical part was talking about the people that got their vaccination about a year ago. i'm sure they still have some immunity, but I don't know how much or how effective it is against the variants.
The last I heard was ten percent. Who the hell knows. I know someone who was vaxxed and boosted and got it a couple weeks ago and was real sick like the flu. But then, maybe it saved her from being hospitalized or dying. Who knows.
Post by: nddons on January 29, 2022, 01:27:03 PM
The theoretical part was talking about the people that got their vaccination about a year ago. i'm sure they still have some immunity, but I don't know how much or how effective it is against the variants.Ah, understood. Yes, I suspect the immunity benefits of the main vax wane over time.
Post by: Little Joe on January 29, 2022, 02:26:30 PM
The last I heard was ten percent. Who the hell knows. I know someone who was vaxxed and boosted and got it a couple weeks ago and was real sick like the flu. But then, maybe it saved her from being hospitalized or dying. Who knows.Liberals know. Just ask them.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on January 29, 2022, 02:50:47 PM
The last I heard was ten percent. Who the hell knows. I know someone who was vaxxed and boosted and got it a couple weeks ago and was real sick like the flu. But then, maybe it saved her from being hospitalized or dying. Who knows.Maybe it was the flu.
Post by: Rush on January 29, 2022, 03:15:49 PM
Maybe it was the flu.
The covid test was positive and it was the supposedly more accurate one.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 29, 2022, 03:29:00 PM
The covid test was positive and it was the supposedly more accurate one.
even so, we know that it is not at all uncommon for someone to have covid without any symptoms. So, how does one know that the FLU-like symptoms aren't cause by, oh I don't know, the FLU?
Post by: Lucifer on January 29, 2022, 03:34:23 PM
What's the CDC guidance on that?
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on January 29, 2022, 03:51:11 PM
With common sense as always, we stayed away from others, especially my 94-year-old Mom.
At no point did we wish we’d been vaccinated. It struck me quite clearly that these shills for the vax claiming their cases “would have been worse” if they hadn’t been vaxxed are peddling the worst kind of snake oil … claiming to have knowledge about something that didn’t happen.
Post by: Lucifer on January 29, 2022, 04:08:39 PM
… claiming to have knowledge about something that didn’t happen.
Isn't this the premise behind most religions? ???
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on January 29, 2022, 05:06:31 PM
claiming to have knowledge about something that didn’t happen.
Why did the President Trump impeachment hearings come to mind when I your statement...
(sorry, I neglected to add that I'm glad you are feeling better)