PILOT SPIN

Pilot Zone => Pilot Zone => Topic started by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 11, 2021, 08:21:21 AM

Title: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 11, 2021, 08:21:21 AM
And since I was on the subject of glider training in the other thread, here is one of my favorite videos to perhaps inspire people to consider getting some - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7MVnaetYcI&t=4s
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Steingar on October 11, 2021, 11:45:34 AM
Those didn't look like VFR cloud clearances to me.  Nothing like doing something illegal and then putting it on Youtube.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 11, 2021, 11:49:47 AM
.  Nothing like doing something illegal and then putting it on Youtube.

but not as bad as putting crap "muzak" in the audio track.  Good grief.  Let's hear the sound of the glider.

Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Rush on October 11, 2021, 11:58:15 AM
but not as bad as putting crap "muzak" in the audio track.  Good grief.  Let's hear the sound of the glider.

Muzak?  That was Pink Floyd.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on October 11, 2021, 12:48:12 PM
Muzak?  That was Pink Floyd.

bfd - don't care how "great" some people that is.  It has nothing to do with aviation/gliding/flying.  No production value.

Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Lucifer on October 11, 2021, 12:51:14 PM
bfd - don't care how "great" some people that is.  It has nothing to do with aviation/gliding/flying.  No production value.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.lpcdn.ca%2F641x427%2F201304%2F04%2F670250-gene-siskel-roger-ebert.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Rush on October 11, 2021, 01:45:37 PM
bfd - don't care how "great" some people that is.  It has nothing to do with aviation/gliding/flying.  No production value.

I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t like Pink Floyd. I see your point about the serenity of just quiet glider noise although I didn’t mind the music in this video.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Lucifer on October 11, 2021, 01:50:35 PM
I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t like Pink Floyd. I see your point about the serenity of just quiet glider noise although I didn’t mind the music in this video.

 That high tech volume control on YT is very difficult to figure out for some obviously.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 11, 2021, 03:31:17 PM
I rather liked the sounds track personally. But then I am a big fan of Pink Floyd. De gustibus non est disputandum .

The sounds of the glider will tend to be fairly boring. Basically a rush of air at varying volumes.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 11, 2021, 03:32:33 PM
Those didn't look like VFR cloud clearances to me.  Nothing like doing something illegal and then putting it on Youtube.

Others have noted that in the past as well. Certainly he was too close per reg, though I don't think there was any great danger of someone bursting out of those clouds on an IFR clearance. Actually, I don't know if he had a clearance -- I suppose he might have.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 11, 2021, 04:25:47 PM
Others have noted that in the past as well. Certainly he was too close per reg, though I don't think there was any great danger of someone bursting out of those clouds on an IFR clearance. Actually, I don't know if he had a clearance -- I suppose he might have.

If he was in Class G he was legal. Back in 2013 there were still areas in the western US that had Class G up to 14,500. I remember flying through one such area in southeastern Oregon. Alas, I believe those areas have gone away. I can’t find any even in Alaska.

That said, the “About” section of the channel owner of that video claims UK location. I have no idea where in the world he was flying, or when.

P.S. According to one of the video comments the owner of that youtube channel is now beyond the reach of any aviation authority:

“Peter Lovett
2 years ago
 @Fails and Truth  He was killed in a glider crash two or three years back. Tow rope broke on launch on a windy day and he crashed trying to get back to the airfield.”
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 11, 2021, 04:42:24 PM
I first saw the following video quite a few years ago - the youtuber used clips from a video titled “Gladiators of the Sky” (https://www.ssa.org/product/gladiators-of-the-sky-dvd/ (https://www.ssa.org/product/gladiators-of-the-sky-dvd/)) about a glider competition in Middle Earth ;) :

Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 11, 2021, 04:47:57 PM
If he was in Class G he was legal. Back in 2013 there were still areas in the western US that had Class G up to 14,500. I remember flying through one such area in southeastern Oregon. Alas, I believe those areas have gone away. I can’t find any even in Alaska.

That said, the “About” section of the channel owner of that video claims UK location. I have no idea where in the world he was flying, or when.

P.S. According to one of the video comments the owner of that youtube channel is now beyond the reach of any aviation authority:

“Peter Lovett
2 years ago
 @Fails and Truth  He was killed in a glider crash two or three years back. Tow rope broke on launch on a windy day and he crashed trying to get back to the airfield.”
Yes, I believe that video was in the Alps. He was killed on a winch launch gone wrong. He attempted it on a very windy day when people told him not to try and launch, but he insisted he wanted to take advantage of the very high winds that day. RIP.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 11, 2021, 04:54:14 PM
I first saw the following video quite a few years ago - the youtuber used clips from a video titled “Gladiators of the Sky” (https://www.ssa.org/product/gladiators-of-the-sky-dvd/ (https://www.ssa.org/product/gladiators-of-the-sky-dvd/)) about a glider competition in Middle Earth ;) :


Very neat. Hopefully I will get a high performance ship once I have accumulated some more time in the 1-26 which I am taking delivery of Wednesday.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Steingar on October 12, 2021, 06:09:13 AM
Yes, I believe that video was in the Alps.

Then perhaps I'm mistaken, I don't know what cloud clearance rules are in Europe.  I can't imagine an IFR legal glider.  Not a lot of power for radio navigation instruments.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 12, 2021, 08:13:21 AM
Then perhaps I'm mistaken, I don't know what cloud clearance rules are in Europe.  I can't imagine an IFR legal glider.  Not a lot of power for radio navigation instruments.

For many years gliders have been flying in Class A and other airspaces under ATC. Here’s a discussion about how some have done that (good to see Usenet aviation forums still alive):
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring/c/fmUHI1m3XLI (https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring/c/fmUHI1m3XLI)

Several places sell appropriate equipment. For example Cumulus Soaring sells low power transponders, hand-held radios, and panel radios suitable for gliders:
https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/categories/transponders (https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/categories/transponders)
https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/categories/radio-panel-mount (https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/categories/radio-panel-mount)
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2021, 08:24:33 AM
I have to confess I just don’t understand gliders. I don’t get how you can go anywhere without power.  I know, I know you ride thermals to gain altitude. What if there’s no thermal around? How do you get over to one if there is? Do you get towed really high and the rest is mostly downhill?  How do you ensure you’re always going to be in the right position to land in the right field when you finally run out of altitude?  What if you screw up the approach? The song “You can always go around” isn’t going to help you, right?
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Mr Pou on October 12, 2021, 08:57:44 AM
I used to fly hang gliders, and yup, no thermals, and you have a short flight. A good rule of thumb was to never be more than 45 degrees away from your intended landing site, and a good final approach is critical for as you say, there is no going around.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Steingar on October 12, 2021, 09:18:26 AM
For many years gliders have been flying in Class A and other airspaces under ATC. Here’s a discussion about how some have done that (good to see Usenet aviation forums still alive):
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring/c/fmUHI1m3XLI (https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring/c/fmUHI1m3XLI)

Several places sell appropriate equipment. For example Cumulus Soaring sells low power transponders, hand-held radios, and panel radios suitable for gliders:
https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/categories/transponders (https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/categories/transponders)
https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/categories/radio-panel-mount (https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/store/categories/radio-panel-mount)

Good luck with all that when you need to do an approach.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Doc Holliday on October 12, 2021, 09:35:35 AM
Good luck with all that when you need to do an approach.

  You ain't that smart are ya?
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 12, 2021, 09:36:27 AM
Then perhaps I'm mistaken, I don't know what cloud clearance rules are in Europe.  I can't imagine an IFR legal glider.  Not a lot of power for radio navigation instruments.

Au contraire!. I suspect you are correct and that he was violating the flight rules in Europe, but we don't know for sure.

There are IFR legal gliders with a turn and bank or AI run off a battery. Or in the old days they were run off a venturi. Horsely in his book "Soaring Flight" actually talks about how people used to fly up into and through a cloud to gain altitude prior to Doolittle's demonstration of IFR flight in 1929.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 12, 2021, 09:46:53 AM
I have to confess I just don’t understand gliders. I don’t get how you can go anywhere without power.  I know, I know you ride thermals to gain altitude. What if there’s no thermal around? How do you get over to one if there is? Do you get towed really high and the rest is mostly downhill?  How do you ensure you’re always going to be in the right position to land in the right field when you finally run out of altitude?  What if you screw up the approach? The song “You can always go around” isn’t going to help you, right?

Correct, no go-arounds. Basically in flying gliders one needs to always be mindful of the next place you can make it to in order to land. Altitude is like fuel. So one learns to judge the appropriate glide angle by sight. And you have to be willing to land out sometimes if you make a mistake.

Gliders are rather higher performance than hang-gliders and so the angle from the horizon down to the landing spot does not need to be kept as high. A typical trainer might have a 20-1 glide ratio, so to be conservative, halve that to 10-1. This corresponds to about a 5 degree angle, or about 2-3 finger widths relative to the horizon. I teach students to sit at home and mark that off relative to a chair they like to sit in and just learn how to judge 5 degrees down by sight. Those are the places you can make it to with altitude to spare.

Your hand at arm's length is about 10 degrees. This is a good thing for power pilots to learn how to judge by sight as well. Most small GA aircraft have about a 10-1 glide ratio, so halving that is 5-1 or about 11 degrees. Below that you can probably comfortably glide to if the big fan up front quits.

Article by Knauf on this subject http://www.soargbsc.com/inststud/student/HowFarCanYouSpit.pdf
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 12, 2021, 09:56:17 AM
Good luck with all that when you need to do an approach.

I don't know anyone who tries to fly an IFR approach in a glider. You just don't have the control of altitude required. Most instrument work in gliders is to get you out of a cloud or some weather you got caught in.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: nddons on October 12, 2021, 01:09:41 PM
I have to confess I just don’t understand gliders. I don’t get how you can go anywhere without power.  I know, I know you ride thermals to gain altitude. What if there’s no thermal around? How do you get over to one if there is? Do you get towed really high and the rest is mostly downhill?  How do you ensure you’re always going to be in the right position to land in the right field when you finally run out of altitude?  What if you screw up the approach? The song “You can always go around” isn’t going to help you, right?
I agree. I don’t like turning around in someone’s driveway. I certainly don’t like the idea of landing off airport in someone’s field.  Same with balloon flight. No thanks. I’m too much of a control freak.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2021, 01:47:23 PM
I agree. I don’t like turning around in someone’s driveway. I certainly don’t like the idea of landing off airport in someone’s field.  Same with balloon flight. No thanks. I’m too much of a control freak.

You hit the nail, I’m a control freak. Ha!  At least over my own life and safety.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Jim Logajan on October 12, 2021, 02:30:53 PM
I agree. I don’t like turning around in someone’s driveway. I certainly don’t like the idea of landing off airport in someone’s field.  Same with balloon flight. No thanks. I’m too much of a control freak.

When I was taking glider lessons at Greer airport (OG48) we did a simulated rope break from the tow plane after passing 200 ft AGL. The objective is to learn to turn back and land at the takeoff field in such an event. This isn’t as dangerous as it sounds since a glider has such a low descent rate. In fact in this case we had a decent headwind, which meant we were closer to the field than typical on reaching 200 ft and after turning back we had a good tailwind. It didn’t help that I was tardy in applying spoilers/dive brakes and slipping. The CFIG in the back seat of the SGS 2-33 took over and had me call out the airspeed since she couldn’t see the indicator from back there. I’m not fearless, but wasn’t terribly concerned - my immediate thought was “Well, this should be interesting!” We “landed out” in the neighboring field just to the south of the field. It was mostly stubble from a crop that had been harvested. No harm done to the glider. Biggest issue was making sure passing motorists didn’t think “OMG an airplane crash - report it to the authorities.” So after exiting we just smiled and waved to anyone passing by. The tow pilot/field owner used his riding mower to tow the glider back across the road with the CFIG and I keeping the wings level. Secondary issue was hoping the neighbor didn’t get upset. Fortunately no crops damaged.

Just in case I was traumatized by the incident (hardly!) they insisted I do another flight right away.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2021, 02:49:23 PM
When I was taking glider lessons at Greer airport (OG48) we did a simulated rope break from the tow plane after passing 200 ft AGL. The objective is to learn to turn back and land at the takeoff field in such an event. This isn’t as dangerous as it sounds since a glider has such a low descent rate. In fact in this case we had a decent headwind, which meant we were closer to the field than typical on reaching 200 ft and after turning back we had a good tailwind. It didn’t help that I was tardy in applying spoilers/dive brakes and slipping. The CFIG in the back seat of the SGS 2-33 took over and had me call out the airspeed since she couldn’t see the indicator from back there. I’m not fearless, but wasn’t terribly concerned - my immediate thought was “Well, this should be interesting!” We “landed out” in the neighboring field just to the south of the field. It was mostly stubble from a crop that had been harvested. No harm done to the glider. Biggest issue was making sure passing motorists didn’t think “OMG an airplane crash - report it to the authorities.” So after exiting we just smiled and waved to anyone passing by. The tow pilot/field owner used his riding mower to tow the glider back across the road with the CFIG and I keeping the wings level. Secondary issue was hoping the neighbor didn’t get upset. Fortunately no crops damaged.

Just in case I was traumatized by the incident (hardly!) they insisted I do another flight right away.

The one time I parachuted I missed the field and landed on some farmer’s soybean crop. Had to pick up my chute and find my way back to the field. I’m not sure anybody even noticed me.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: nddons on October 12, 2021, 04:21:51 PM
When I was taking glider lessons at Greer airport (OG48) we did a simulated rope break from the tow plane after passing 200 ft AGL. The objective is to learn to turn back and land at the takeoff field in such an event. This isn’t as dangerous as it sounds since a glider has such a low descent rate. In fact in this case we had a decent headwind, which meant we were closer to the field than typical on reaching 200 ft and after turning back we had a good tailwind. It didn’t help that I was tardy in applying spoilers/dive brakes and slipping. The CFIG in the back seat of the SGS 2-33 took over and had me call out the airspeed since she couldn’t see the indicator from back there. I’m not fearless, but wasn’t terribly concerned - my immediate thought was “Well, this should be interesting!” We “landed out” in the neighboring field just to the south of the field. It was mostly stubble from a crop that had been harvested. No harm done to the glider. Biggest issue was making sure passing motorists didn’t think “OMG an airplane crash - report it to the authorities.” So after exiting we just smiled and waved to anyone passing by. The tow pilot/field owner used his riding mower to tow the glider back across the road with the CFIG and I keeping the wings level. Secondary issue was hoping the neighbor didn’t get upset. Fortunately no crops damaged.

Just in case I was traumatized by the incident (hardly!) they insisted I do another flight right away.
Cool story!
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Anthony on October 12, 2021, 04:57:35 PM
Very cool.  I'd like to get my glider add on.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Rush on October 12, 2021, 05:14:30 PM
Very cool.  I'd like to get my glider add on.

If Scotty could beam me into that glider over the Alps for a while then beam me out of it, I'd go for that.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 12, 2021, 08:39:41 PM
If Scotty could beam me into that glider over the Alps for a while then beam me out of it, I'd go for that.
If you have not done a glider discovery flight, I would strongly encourage you to do so. Come down to Estrella Sailport this February or March when the weather is much better than most of the country for a few days.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Steingar on October 13, 2021, 07:04:05 AM
I tried once to do that, but to get in a glider took the whole day.  I haven't time like that to waste, so I demurred.  Perhaps in my retirement, should I have one.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: Little Joe on October 13, 2021, 12:56:03 PM
I tried once to do that, but to get in a glider took the whole day.  I haven't time like that to waste, so I demurred.  Perhaps in my retirement, should I have one.
I'm retired and I seem to have less free time than I did when I was working.  Perhaps that's because I am able to do all sorts of things I couldn't do when I was working.
Title: Re: A favorite gliding / soaring video
Post by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 13, 2021, 02:22:11 PM
I tried once to do that, but to get in a glider took the whole day.  I haven't time like that to waste, so I demurred.  Perhaps in my retirement, should I have one.

Clubs have a much slower pace of life, that is for sure.

The commercial operations can usually get you the experience you want more quickly and on your schedule. But you will pay for it.

Thus the suggestion to come out and visit AZ Soaring at the Estrella sailport this winter.