PILOT SPIN
Pilot Zone => Pilot Zone => Topic started by: PeterNSteinmetz on October 27, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
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A volume of articles originally published in The American Engineer and Railroad Journal by Chanute to review the state of the art in flying machines.
It has been really interesting to see how there were some rather early successes. For example, in 1846 Stringfellow was able to fly a small tethered flapping wing aircraft using a small steam engine.
A lot of patents on various designs during the 19th century.
Early on people were understandably concerned with how much power it would take for a man to be able to fly since on average people can only develop about 1/10 hp over prolonged periods.
Chanute did note the primary problem of control and wrote:
“We shall hereafter see that even if the aeroplanes experimented with had been provided with adequate motors, as they were not, this difficulty in maintaining a proper equilibrium with fixed surfaces is probably sufficient to account for most of the failures of experiments upon a practical scale with that form of apparatus, and for their abandonment by their designers, a brief trial having probably satisfied them that aside from the question of a motive power, which they were confessedly unable to solve, they were not yet masters of such reasonable stability and command over their apparatus, as to warrant them in proceeding further”
This of course was the problem Wilbur Wright solved with wing warping and that Curtiss evolved into ailerons.
Available on Google Play Books.
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From the final chapter and paragraphs -
“Upon the whole , the writer is glad to believe that when man succeeds in flying through the air the ultimate effect will be to diminish greatly the frequency of wars and to substitute some more rational methods of settling international misunderstandings .”
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“So may it be ; let us hope that the advent of a successful flying machine, now only dimly foreseen and nevertheless thought to be possible, will bring nothing but good into the world ; that it shall abridge distance, make all parts of the globe accessible, bring men into closer relation with each other, advance civilization, and hasten the promised era in which there shall be nothing but peace and goodwill among all men”
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From the final chapter and paragraphs -
“Upon the whole , the writer is glad to believe that when man succeeds in flying through the air the ultimate effect will be to diminish greatly the frequency of wars and to substitute some more rational methods of settling international misunderstandings .”
…
“So may it be ; let us hope that the advent of a successful flying machine, now only dimly foreseen and nevertheless thought to be possible, will bring nothing but good into the world ; that it shall abridge distance, make all parts of the globe accessible, bring men into closer relation with each other, advance civilization, and hasten the promised era in which there shall be nothing but peace and goodwill among all men”
Well maybe if we colonize space man will finally live together in peace and brotherhood.
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And then came carpet bombing, aka "daylight precision bombing". ::)
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And then came carpet bombing, aka "daylight precision bombing". ::)
Well, not quite as inaccurate as the night bombing by the British and bomber Harris.
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Well, not quite as inaccurate as the night bombing by the British and bomber Harris.
probably why he had it in quotes
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probably why he had it in quotes
I think Peter and I are saying the same thing. Accuracy sucked all around but day was a little better than night. Then there was the firing bombing of Japanese cities that nobody talks about which was much worse than the two nukes.
Yes. Different times and situation than our world today. Not judging them, mind you.
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I think Peter and I are saying the same thing. Accuracy sucked all around but day was a little better than night. Then there was the firing bombing of Japanese cities that nobody talks about which was much worse than the two nukes.
Yes. Different times and situation than our world today. Not judging them, mind you.
Exactly right. Bombing civilians was horrific by modern standards and bombing civilians with conventional weapons likely did little to help end the war. But hindsight is 20/20 and the fog of war was thick.
I believe the post-war assessments concluded that the daylight precision bombing of oil fields and the aircraft supply chain did materially help though.
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Exactly right. Bombing civilians was horrific by modern standards and bombing civilians with conventional weapons likely did little to help end the war. But hindsight is 20/20 and the fog of war was thick.
I believe the post-war assessments concluded that the daylight precision bombing of oil fields and the aircraft supply chain did materially help though.
The Dresden raid was led by the Brits with over 700 Lancaster bombers. There certainly were industrial targets, but no doubt those planners where thinking of the 60-70,000 civilians killed by German’s bombings of London. Destroying the enemy’s will to continue to wage war sometimes involves civilian deaths.
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The Dresden raid was led by the Brits with over 700 Lancaster bombers. There certainly were industrial targets, but no doubt those planners where thinking of the 60-70,000 civilians killed by German’s bombings of London. Destroying the enemy’s will to continue to wage war sometimes involves civilian deaths.
I suspect you are correct that was the intent. I am not so sure there is much evidence it had the intended effect on morale. My understanding is that both in the UK and Germany bombing of civilians actually increased civilian resolve to keep fighting. But I have not read extensively on that point.
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I suspect you are correct that was the intent. I am not so sure there is much evidence it had the intended effect on morale. My understanding is that both in the UK and Germany bombing of civilians actually increased civilian resolve to keep fighting. But I have not read extensively on that point.
Nagasaki provided pretty good evidence of breaking the will of the enemy.
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Nagasaki provided pretty good evidence of breaking the will of the enemy.
Yes it did. Another example of a Radical faction taking over government that had visions of world domination which took the public down a self destructive horrible road.
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Nagasaki provided pretty good evidence of breaking the will of the enemy.
Certainly the atomic bombs provided the Emperor with the reason needed to surrender. I don’t know what the effect was per se on civilian morale.
Even here there is of course a lot of debate. I just finished reading Alperowitz’s book on this and was surprised by the detailed case he makes that essentially the final decision to use the atomic bomb was made to make the Russians more pliable in negotiations about the post-war world and that the Japanese were ready to surrender prior to their use.
So in the context of this discussion, that might be an example where the constant fire bombing of Japanese cities did enough damage to make them ready to surrender. Though again I don’t know a detailed study of the effect of the fire-bombings on Japanese civilian morale.
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Not only make the Russians more pliable post-war, but to limit their territory gains in the East. They just entered the war against Japan and were moving very fast south and east. The Japanese surrendering limited the Russian expansion as well as giving the Emperor an excuse to call it quits. Lots of hard-core militarists wanted to keep going and enlist the entire population, no matter what the cost.
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Then there was the firing bombing of Japanese cities that nobody talks about which was much worse than the two nukes.
Indeed, Operation Meetinghouse was a gruesome thing, the single most destructive bombing raid in human history.