PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on November 23, 2021, 06:49:05 AM
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If you have no life and a lot of time to waste, or just want to procrastinate whatever you’re supposed to be doing today, here are two videos about class stratification in blacks and whites respectively.
I have some problems with both of them but nevertheless they are informative. In the white trash video, the presumption that white supremacy is the root of all classism is ludicrous, especially when they’re talking about “My Fair Lady”, set in early 20th century England. Class stratification in Northern Europe had nothing to do with race, there was no “white supremacy”. There was the aristocracy which grew out the Dark and Middle Ages, times of white on white struggle and no blacks in sight.
The black social class video is a great exploration of class stratification among blacks in America. It makes some very good points about the need to learn skills to climb the ladder, and the second part talks about Management Leadership for Tomorrow (MLT), a company that educates minorities (mostly black or only black it seems). Learning how to navigate the corporate world is crucial and they probably do a good job of that, but toward the end he asks how many in the class want to be CEOs, most raise their hand.
In the real world, we can’t have everyone being a CEO. It seems they are making the same mistake our educational system makes, assuming all people can have upper level professional jobs, and a lack of training opportunities for skilled working class jobs. They highlight Mia, a young black female engineer, doing very well as an engineer. She decides she wants to be a corporate fat cat instead and quits her job to take the 18 month MLT course, then IIRC ends up being accepted in grad school for an MBA. I’m not real sure how doing all that will get her further than if she’d stuck with the engineering job and risen through management that way, getting her MBA in the evenings like most other engineers. It seems to me the only person guaranteed to get rich from MLT is it’s founder.
But anyway the point of that part is that to succeed in upper level corporate world you do need knowledge and skills and the premise is that blacks lack other opportunities to get these skills, not sure I agree with that, but it’s a need MLT attempts to fill, and maybe it’s a good thing, all I know about it is what the video presents.
The first part of the video explores the already existing class stratification within the black community. It has always been there and there have always been some blacks who rise in society despite racism.
The lesson from both these videos is that classism exists across all races. When you have an oppressed, impoverished white class, you cannot blame it on white supremacy. But woke philosophy does just that. It says, “well, what we mean is the white supremacists are an exclusive white within white club.” Then the idiocy of this assertion comes out when they claim the English upper class, in an era and geographical location with virtually no blacks whatsoever, are white supremacists. They may have been racist, in the sense of thinking a black person (if they ever came across one) was subhuman, but the inequities of their local society are not due to racism. The only people they are oppressing are other whites. A great manifestation of English bigotry and classism is the history of the English-Scottish border. The Scotts are hardly not white.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owi5guUQb7s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wCEgeztLSE
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not directly on-point for this thead: can anyone think of countries/societies that have a loooooong history of racism/classism?
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not directly on-point for this thead: can anyone think of countries/societies that have a loooooong history of racism/classism?
Are you thinking of China?
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not directly on-point for this thead: can anyone think of countries/societies that have a loooooong history of racism/classism?
India.
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:-Japan, India, China, North Philly......
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:-Japan, India, China, North Philly......
Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Port St Lucie.....
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not directly on-point for this thead: can anyone think of countries/societies that have a loooooong history of racism/classism?
Classism: Ancient Greece, Roman Empire, Chinese dynasties, among others.
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Might be easier to list those countries / societies that have never had racism or classism.
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Might be easier to list those countries / societies that have never had racism or classism.
Naw. That's hard. I can't think of even one.
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The desire to survive and a warped sense of perception explains all of the -isms that pit one against another. If one believes that his/her survival is dependent upon the dearth of another individual or group, then the logical (but incorrect) conclusion is to suppress. The suppression takes many forms but it best accomplished when done stealthily and when self-perpetuating.
Those in power laugh when the misdiagnosis is made, for it gives more time to exercise the rule. I am forced to reflect that racism and white supremacy acts in this sense like a honey pot.
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Blaming fake white supremacy for everything wrong in America is like blaming George Washington for the idiocy of faux president fuckwad.
It's the cowards way out.
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Blaming fake white supremacy for everything wrong in America is like blaming George Washington for the idiocy of faux president fuckwad.
It's the cowards way out.
Let me stop you there, because I'm not saying that WS doesn't exists, it does. But it's given more credit for the world's problems than it rightfully has earned. However, I don't think it's inappropriate to say that it's a complicating factor.
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Here is an interesting discussion of the history of slavery. It broadens the perspective away from our current focus on just two races and on just America. It probably is indeed rooted in the survival instinct and the human tendency to oppress others in the misguided (or maybe sometimes real) perception that to do so is necessary for one’s (or one’s group’s) survival. It’s a human thing to do, not a white thing.
Can you imagine Homo Sapiens encountering Neanderthals? More than likely one of those groups hunted the other for food, or enslaved them, or both, or at times maybe befriended them for mutual benefit. We are hard wired to prefer our own group and raid all others for resources, from family level, to tribe, to community, to race, the city-state, to nation, but we also evolved to seek different groups with which to trade and different genes with which to mate. The roadmap is there for getting along, but the roadmap for exploitation is also still there, in each of our DNA.
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Sowell knows his history. For more details, there is a eye-opening survey article in the Encyclopedia Britannica that covers slavery around the world and through recorded history:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/slavery-sociology/Historical-survey (https://www.britannica.com/topic/slavery-sociology/Historical-survey)
Suffice to say, it is a sadly universal institution independent of racism.
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But let's be real here.
Slavery ended in the US during the mid 1800's. Over 150+ years ago. No one alive today was a slave no anyone alive today was a slave owner. These are facts.
But yet, in other places around the world, slavery is happening today in 2021. And no one wants to address it or even speak of it. Why should we ignore current human rights violations and focus on something that was in our past and no one alive had anything to do with?
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But let's be real here.
Slavery ended in the US during the mid 1800's. Over 150+ years ago. No one alive today was a slave no anyone alive today was a slave owner. These are facts.
But yet, in other places around the world, slavery is happening today in 2021. And no one wants to address it or even speak of it. Why should we ignore current human rights violations and focus on something that was in our past and no one alive had anything to do with?
Sowell makes the point that it is western European civilization that first recognized slavery was wrong, and endeavored to outlaw it. Yet it is (white) western civilization that is the target of focused attack for all the world’s evils including slavery. Colonialism and capitalism is wrapped up in that, as if slavery was only a result of colonialism when in fact, colonialism resulted from superior technology (ships that could go there, superior weapons, and even horses, which the Americas didn’t have until Europe brought them) and slavery, as the video shows, was just already a background assumption with all humans and always had been.
The chronology was this:
Slavery had always been around.
Northern Europe developed superior technology due to geographical factors (not any particular superiority of white European brains or abilities).
Because of that, Europeans explored, exploited, and exported to other parts of the world.
Slavery continued being part of life, including during the European expansion.
Enlightenment and improvement in conditions due to technological advances led to more liberal (democratic) ideas about freedom, that the common man could be self sufficient in a market economy and that rule by an elite class was outdated and unnecessary, resulting in the birth of the U.S. rule by the People granting government limited power rather than the other way around for the first time ever.
Less than a century later the recognition that slavery was morally wrong and didn’t fit with the spirit of freedom in the U.S.
The West did that. Not Asia. Not Africa.
Unfortunately it looks like we’re coming full circle and arriving back to rule by an elite class.
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I submit that the Trans-African slavery differs from everything else that came before in the history of the world.
“ We have, as far as possible, closed every avenue by which the light may enter the slave’s mind. If we could extinguish the capacity to see the light, our work will be complete. They would then be on the level of the beast of the fields and we then should be safe.”- Henry Berry
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I submit that the Trans-African slavery differs from everything else that came before in the history of the world.
“ We have, as far as possible, closed every avenue by which the light may enter the slave’s mind. If we could extinguish the capacity to see the light, our work will be complete. They would then be on the level of the beast of the fields and we then should be safe.”- Henry Berry
Dwell in the distant past and be doomed to a life of victimhood and unhappiness. I didn't do it. So get an effing clue.
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I submit that the Trans-African slavery differs from everything else that came before in the history of the world.
“ We have, as far as possible, closed every avenue by which the light may enter the slave’s mind. If we could extinguish the capacity to see the light, our work will be complete. They would then be on the level of the beast of the fields and we then should be safe.”- Henry Berry
You can do both. You can admit that it differs from all others while at the same time see the universal context. Slavery as an institution was not the sole invention of white Europeans but woke propaganda never makes that clear. It’s as if the goal were to foster racial hatred and division rather than a broad understanding of history. I prefer Sowell’s approach.
In fact, if memory serves, Sowell talks about the differences in his book “Race and Culture” which I have lying around here somewhere. It’s been several years since I read it. Maybe I can find it, it’s probably the same place “The Naked Pilot” is, which I’m still trying to locate to look up something flying related for Peter. The last time we moved all my books got put in boxes. My husband is promising to build me some book shelves after he retires in the spring.
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I submit that the Trans-African slavery differs from everything else that came before in the history of the world.
true in one sense: The western societies that bought (and owned) the slaves in this "Trans-African slavery" ended the practice.
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I notice jaybird NEVER mentions muslim slave owning, slave taking and human trafficking in the current age....
It's always about whitey and his make believe grievances.
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And when you distill it down, the Nazis were using the healthy Jews, Poles, and well, pretty much whoever was not a part of the master race as slaves.
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I notice jaybird NEVER mentions muslim slave owning, slave taking and human trafficking in the current age....
It's always about whitey and his make believe grievances.
I’m not sure what’s more interesting - seeing where slavery exists, or seeing where it doesn’t exist, yet keeps getting blamed for the world’s problems.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211127/5662c32201c1f2b87407f72e1c8c8daa.jpg)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
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I’m not sure what’s more interesting - seeing where slavery exists, or seeing where it doesn’t exist, yet keeps getting blamed for the world’s problems.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211127/5662c32201c1f2b87407f72e1c8c8daa.jpg)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
Why is Greenland gray in that figure? Does it mean they don’t have data there?
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I submit that the Trans-African slavery differs from everything else that came before in the history of the world.
I submit that your knowledge of the full history of slavery is incomplete. The only thing that made slavery from Africa to the rest of the world unique was the transportation technology to move them across an ocean, but that wasn’t even to the US when it started.
Did you know that the word slave shares its origin (Greek) with the word Slavic, because the enslavement of the Slavic people was so widespread thousands of years ago? Laws regulating slavery can be found in the Code of Hammurabi. The Jewish people were famously enslaved multiple times in history and some Muslims may still believe in slavery. Even slavery in Africa traces its roots to rival African kingdoms fighting each other with the victor making slaves of the vanquished. The only new spin was in the mid 15th century, 50 years before Columbus, those victorious kingdoms began exporting the slaves and Europe established a slave market specifically for those slaves being sold out of Africa. It was ongoing before the first colonists arranged in the Us.
If there is a miraculous thing, it’s that the United States seems to be one of the first nations…the first modern nation to recognize the rights of all mankind and to destroy slavery.
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Why is Greenland gray in that figure? Does it mean they don’t have data there?
It means they’re frucking frozen. ;D
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It means they’re frucking frozen. ;D
It’s just a big ice cube, whereas Iceland is somewhat green.
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Shouldn't China be darker than black?
....or if the government owns people, it does not count?
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Shouldn't China be darker than black?
....or if the government owns people, it does not count?
Although neither are free, there is a difference between a slave and a subject. If you want to go that route, half of the US needs to get colored in too.
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Although neither are free, there is a difference between a slave and a subject. If you want to go that route, half of the US needs to get colored in too.
When you have 1.4 billion people, it’s tough to move the needle a whole lot. If I’m reading the color correctly, 0.1% is still 1,400,000 Chinese in slavery.