Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on November 28, 2021, 11:42:40 AM
"Americans are not used to not working"
um....
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on November 28, 2021, 01:16:24 PM
Post by: nddons on November 28, 2021, 02:38:57 PM
op-ed piece in 28 Nov 2021 Boston Herald (Froma Harrop)I’m not so sure about that. These high school and college kids - who don’t get covid stimulus money - sure aren’t finding their way to the fast food joints or restaurants or grocery stores or pretty much anywhere else.
"Americans are not used to not working"
um....
My brother never made his kids get a job in high school, and one got his FIRST job at a restaurant between his freshman and sophomore year in college! Madness. I guess I just needed a LOT more beer money in HS and college than these boys.
Post by: Rush on November 28, 2021, 04:34:01 PM
I’m not so sure about that. These high school and college kids - who don’t get covid stimulus money - sure aren’t finding their way to the fast food joints or restaurants or grocery stores or pretty much anywhere else.
My brother never made his kids get a job in high school, and one got his FIRST job at a restaurant between his freshman and sophomore year in college! Madness. I guess I just needed a LOT more beer money in HS and college than these boys.
How do you get to 18, 19, 20 years old and never worked a day in your life? Mind boggling. I did my first babysitting job at age six! My mother and her neighbor paid me to sit and watch the neighbor’s baby sleep for a few minutes while they ran to the store. I started babysitting regularly at age 12, several nights every week, including school nights, and by age 16 had a job in a movie theater, then worked as a waitress and janitor and even helped cut down trees with a tree service. I had jobs all through high school and college. Our own kids did the cleaning at my husband’s office and both were martial arts instructors all through HS and college. It absolutely blows my mind how kids these days aren’t allowed to learn job responsibilities.
Post by: nddons on November 28, 2021, 04:50:06 PM
How do you get to 18, 19, 20 years old and never worked a day in your life? Mind boggling. I did my first babysitting job at age six! My mother and her neighbor paid me to sit and watch the neighbor’s baby sleep for a few minutes while they ran to the store. I started babysitting regularly at age 12, several nights every week, including school nights, and by age 16 had a job in a movie theater, then worked as a waitress and janitor and even helped cut down trees with a tree service. I had jobs all through high school and college. Our own kids did the cleaning at my husband’s office and both were martial arts instructors all through HS and college. It absolutely blows my mind how kids these days aren’t allowed to learn job responsibilities.We’re on the same page. I mowed lawns and shoveled snow when I was in grade school, was a caddy at a Country Club, was a delivery boy at Countryside Pharmacy when I hit 16, did professional landscaping, and then worked at a Savings and Loan in Chicago between HS and college, and then every summer in college in the accounting Department. I also worked in the food service while in college, and did taxes for a law firm during my Junior and senior years in college.
Post by: Lucifer on November 28, 2021, 04:59:00 PM
Post by: Jim Logajan on November 28, 2021, 06:08:24 PM
Now I'm retired.
Post by: Rush on November 28, 2021, 06:10:35 PM
We’re on the same page. I mowed lawns and shoveled snow when I was in grade school, was a caddy at a Country Club, was a delivery boy at Countryside Pharmacy when I hit 16, did professional landscaping, and then worked at a Savings and Loan in Chicago between HS and college, and then every summer in college in the accounting Department. I also worked in the food service while in college, and did taxes for a law firm during my Junior and senior years in college.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention my summer internships in college in the engineering department at the power company.
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on November 28, 2021, 06:18:30 PM
Post by: nddons on November 28, 2021, 07:21:01 PM
I was a gigolo from about 12 till I graduated high school. ;)(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3ohhwxmNcPvwyRqYKI/giphy.gif)
Post by: rotorhead1026 on November 28, 2021, 07:50:54 PM
How do you get to 18, 19, 20 years old and never worked a day in your life? Mind boggling. I did my first babysitting job at age six! My mother and her neighbor paid me to sit and watch the neighbor’s baby sleep for a few minutes while they ran to the store. I started babysitting regularly at age 12, several nights every week, including school nights, and by age 16 had a job in a movie theater, then worked as a waitress and janitor and even helped cut down trees with a tree service. I had jobs all through high school and college. Our own kids did the cleaning at my husband’s office and both were martial arts instructors all through HS and college. It absolutely blows my mind how kids these days aren’t allowed to learn job responsibilities.My two oldest were able to find part-time summer work in the 1990’s - early 2000’s. By the time my youngest was old enough, automation and a higher minimum wage had cut out many stock clerk and fast food jobs. She did work part-time during the school year (college) in IT. Until the recent staffing crisis, it was hard for an industrious kid to find suitable work.
Post by: Rush on November 28, 2021, 08:19:43 PM
My two oldest were able to find part-time summer work in the 1990’s - early 2000’s. By the time my youngest was old enough, automation and a higher minimum wage had cut out many stock clerk and fast food jobs. She did work part-time during the school year (college) in IT. Until the recent staffing crisis, it was hard for an industrious kid to find suitable work.
That’s the biggest problem. I don’t blame the kids, it seems the job opportunities for them have dried up.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on November 29, 2021, 07:19:46 AM
That’s the biggest problem. I don’t blame the kids, it seems the job opportunities for them have dried up.
or the kids don't want the hard jobs.
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in farming
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in landscaping and such
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in construction
Post by: nddons on November 29, 2021, 07:53:43 AM
or the kids don't want the hard jobs.Agreed. Claiming that jobs are tough to find - even 2 or 5 or 10 years ago - just means that you weren’t looking hard enough, or early enough. There are tons of employers who hire seasonally.
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in farming
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in landscaping and such
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in construction
Post by: Rush on November 29, 2021, 08:01:49 AM
or the kids don't want the hard jobs.
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in farming
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in landscaping and such
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in construction
That’s true, the kids don’t want blue collar jobs. They’ve been led to believe they can all be white collar professionals. Or that they deserve to be paid for “doing what you love”. That was a lie. The point of a job isn’t to be paid for doing something enjoyable, it’s to trade a piece of your life (because all any of us have is time) for money. If you happen to enjoy it, good for you, but most jobs suck, that’s why they have to PAY you to do them!
I was listening to a car talk radio the other day, they were saying that young people aren’t going to automobile technician school. They’re not becoming truck drivers. Welders. There is an upcoming shortage of labor in all these working class areas. There is talk in some circles that a lot of it is being driven by women, who are rejecting men they see as having “redneck” or blue collar jobs, and it isn’t even related to money. Welders and plumbers are bringing in more than some engineers and IT people yet women don’t want those men because they get their hands dirty. It is the perception of “class”.
Women are signaling that first, they don’t want or need a man, and second, if they deign to get a man, it better be an upper class one. This as opposed to the past where most women wanted a man, so the supply of women was enough to go around so that even men with “lower class” jobs could still get a woman.
So maybe labor shortage is another unintended consequence of women’s economic independence.
Post by: Lucifer on November 29, 2021, 08:05:32 AM
That’s true, the kids don’t want blue collar jobs. They’ve been led to believe they can all be white collar professionals. Or that they deserve to be paid for “doing what you love”. That was a lie. The point of a job isn’t to be paid for doing something enjoyable, it’s to trade a piece of your life (because all any of us have is time) for money. If you happen to enjoy it, good for you, but most jobs suck, that’s why they have to PAY you to do them!
I was listening to a car talk radio the other day, they were saying that young people aren’t going to automobile technician school. They’re not becoming truck drivers. Welders. There is an upcoming shortage of labor in all these working class areas. There is talk in some circles that a lot of it is being driven by women, who are rejecting men they see as having “redneck” or blue collar jobs, and it isn’t even related to money. Welders and plumbers are bringing in more than some engineers and IT people yet women don’t want those men because they get their hands dirty. It is the perception of “class”.
Women are signaling that first, they don’t want or need a man, and second, if they deign to get a man, it better be an upper class one. This as opposed to the past where most women wanted a man, so the supply of women was enough to go around so that even men with “lower class” jobs could still get a woman.
So maybe labor shortage is another unintended consequence of women’s economic independence.
(https://cdnassets.hw.net/dims4/GG/b61c9a6/2147483647/resize/300x%3E/quality/90/?url=https:%2F%2Fcdnassets.hw.net%2F88%2Fef%2F829b8253439dade595c74c6f2655%2Fcollege-trades.jpg)
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on November 29, 2021, 11:14:22 AM
There is talk in some circles that a lot of it is being driven by women, who are rejecting men they see as having “redneck” or blue collar jobs, and it isn’t even related to money. Welders and plumbers are bringing in more than some engineers and IT people yet women don’t want those men because they get their hands dirty. It is the perception of “class”.
Women are signaling that first, they don’t want or need a man, and second, if they deign to get a man, it better be an upper class one. This as opposed to the past where most women wanted a man, so the supply of women was enough to go around so that even men with “lower class” jobs could still get a woman.
And typical of the "high class" woman rejecting the guys with rough hands...
(https://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20190322/hardcore_tattooed_girls_24.jpg)
Post by: Rush on November 29, 2021, 11:59:32 AM
And typical of the "high class" woman rejecting the guys with rough hands...
(https://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20190322/hardcore_tattooed_girls_24.jpg)
That’ll hold up well as she gets old and fat.
Post by: Mase on November 29, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on November 29, 2021, 12:17:11 PM
That’ll hold up well as she gets old and fat.
won't look any worse.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on November 29, 2021, 12:18:16 PM
Post by: Rush on November 29, 2021, 12:30:27 PM
at 16 I already had been working tuning pianos for a couple of years.
Cool. I respect good piano tuners. I miss my piano. :'(
Post by: Lucifer on November 29, 2021, 12:57:52 PM
Cool. I respect good piano tuners. I miss my piano. :'(
I knew a piano tuner named Charles. We just knew him as Charlie the tuner.
Post by: Rush on November 29, 2021, 01:30:26 PM
I knew a piano tuner named Charles. We just knew him as Charlie the tuner.
Ha.
Post by: President in Exile YOLT on November 29, 2021, 02:27:41 PM
Post by: texasag93 on November 29, 2021, 02:32:51 PM
And typical of the "high class" woman rejecting the guys with rough hands...
(https://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20190322/hardcore_tattooed_girls_24.jpg)
My niece has something like those all over her.
She is now having them lasered to remove them. Lots more $$$ to take them off than put them on.
Post by: nddons on November 29, 2021, 03:15:37 PM
That’ll hold up well as she gets old and fat.Attend a few Harley rallies and you’ll see they don’t hold up well. NONE of those women are THAT heavily tattooed, but still…..
Post by: bflynn on November 29, 2021, 04:52:51 PM
Post by: nddons on November 29, 2021, 04:59:57 PM
I'm just picturing when her boobs fall and look like two giant eyelids covering the eye in the triangle.Congratulations sir! You win the internet for today. Here you go.
. 
Post by: Rush on November 29, 2021, 05:27:48 PM
I'm just picturing when her boobs fall and look like two giant eyelids covering the eye in the triangle.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on November 29, 2021, 05:36:57 PM
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on November 29, 2021, 08:28:10 PM
Post by: nddons on November 29, 2021, 09:53:09 PM
Our server tonight at Dave and Busters was covered in ink and had one of those weird haircuts plus piercings. She had a very nice personality and did a good job. I suspect she'll be waiting tables for along time though.That’s always my feeling. Tats can often be hidden, and nose rings can be removed I guess. But the grossest thing are those gauges in the ears.
Neck or face tattoos or ear gauges, and you’ve sentenced yourself to work at a convenience store or a Starbucks. You’ve got nowhere else to fit in except prison.
Post by: Rush on November 30, 2021, 04:00:44 AM
That’s always my feeling. Tats can often be hidden, and nose rings can be removed I guess. But the grossest thing are those gauges in the ears.
Neck or face tattoos or ear gauges, and you’ve sentenced yourself to work at a convenience store or a Starbucks. You’ve got nowhere else to fit in except prison.
Don’t worry. “Inclusivity” is being forced onto the corporate world. I’m sure the Democrats are working on a bill to outlaw discrimination based on body modification. Soon we will have people like this piloting our commercial flights, administering our anesthesia during surgery, teaching our kids, managing our 401(k)s, etc.
Post by: Mr Pou on November 30, 2021, 05:58:32 AM
Don’t worry. “Inclusivity” is being forced onto the corporate world. I’m sure the Democrats are working on a bill to outlaw discrimination based on body modification. Soon we will have people like this piloting our commercial flights, administering our anesthesia during surgery, teaching our kids, managing our 401(k)s, etc.
What. The. Fuck?
Really, though, if that is what is inside someone, does it really matter whether they do it to the outside or not? I mean, someone like that, disfiguration or not, generally is not destine for much more than working at Dollar General.
Post by: nddons on November 30, 2021, 06:01:26 AM
Don’t worry. “Inclusivity” is being forced onto the corporate world. I’m sure the Democrats are working on a bill to outlaw discrimination based on body modification. Soon we will have people like this piloting our commercial flights, administering our anesthesia during surgery, teaching our kids, managing our 401(k)s, etc.Since those professions require significant intelligence, and the people that do this usually don’t have the IQ of a cucumber, I’m not too worried about them administering me anesthesia during my colonoscopy.
It’s a shame that the pretty girl with the tats in the earlier post above did that. To quote the Eagles (substituting pretty for city), “Pretty girls just seem to find out early, how to open doors with just a smile.”
The girls that do that to their face in your post generally seem to start out as less than attractive, yet must say to themselves “fuck it. I may as well look like Satan.” You have to be a complete head case to do that to yourself.
Post by: Number7 on November 30, 2021, 06:02:10 AM
Don’t worry. “Inclusivity” is being forced onto the corporate world. I’m sure the Democrats are working on a bill to outlaw discrimination based on body modification. Soon we will have people like this piloting our commercial flights, administering our anesthesia during surgery, teaching our kids, managing our 401(k)s, etc.
Someone like that would have to have a very overdeveloped obsession with getting attention, which would preclude them from the healing arts, because self love would often overshadow care for anyone else.
...besides being repulsive, of course.
Post by: Mr Pou on November 30, 2021, 06:17:49 AM
or the kids don't want the hard jobs.
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in farming
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in landscaping and such
There are lots and lots and lots of jobs in construction
My girl is now a freshman at college, but the first year she was legal to work, she worked the summer at Krystal. The second summer as a carhop at Sonic (where she learned that being sweet, nice, and always smiling results in good tips, something the other girls there couldn't grasp), and her third summer at Tazikis. In addition to Tazikis, last summer she also cleaned VRBO houses on the side, and worked a handful of days on a communal farm harvesting vegetables.
I provided her a car and paid for the gas, that was a business agreement[1], good grades = car privileges. The rest of her spending money all through highschool and now college came from her own pocket.
[1] those good grades and her good act score (35) resulted in getting nice academic scholarships [2]
[2] which will benefit her more than us. Before she went to school we told her we had a certain pot of gold earmarked for college, and she could spend it all undergrad, or be thrifty and any left over could be applied to her masters should she choose to go on. She chose a school that had a good reputation in her desired field that also offered her a very attractive scholarship.
I'm proud of her, smart kid, she'll do well in life.
Post by: Anthony on November 30, 2021, 06:23:43 AM
Post by: nddons on November 30, 2021, 06:26:31 AM
My girl is now a freshman at college, but the first year she was legal to work, she worked the summer at Krystal. The second summer as a carhop at Sonic (where she learned that being sweet, nice, and always smiling results in good tips, something the other girls there couldn't grasp), and her third summer at Tazikis. In addition to Tazikis, last summer she also cleaned VRBO houses on the side, and worked a handful of days on a communal farm harvesting vegetables.Great post. Your daughter learned well. It’s AMAZING how many servers don’t grasp the kindness and smiling equation. My starting point for those women are 25%. (15% or 20% for dude servers, just because they are dudes.)
I provided her a car and paid for the gas, that was a business agreement[1], good grades = car privileges. The rest of her spending money all through highschool and now college came from her own pocket.
[1] those good grades and her good act score (35) resulted in getting nice academic scholarships [2]
[2] which will benefit her more than us. Before she went to school we told her we had a certain pot of gold earmarked for college, and she could spend it all undergrad, or be thrifty and any left over could be applied to her masters should she choose to go on. She chose a school that had a good reputation in her desired field that also offered her a very attrective scholarship.
I'm proud of her, smart kid, she'll do well in life.
Post by: Rush on November 30, 2021, 07:46:38 AM
Great post. Your daughter learned well. It’s AMAZING how many servers don’t grasp the kindness and smiling equation. My starting point for those women are 25%. (15% or 20% for dude servers, just because they are dudes.)
Sexist!
Post by: Rush on November 30, 2021, 08:00:25 AM
My girl is now a freshman at college, but the first year she was legal to work, she worked the summer at Krystal. The second summer as a carhop at Sonic (where she learned that being sweet, nice, and always smiling results in good tips, something the other girls there couldn't grasp), and her third summer at Tazikis. In addition to Tazikis, last summer she also cleaned VRBO houses on the side, and worked a handful of days on a communal farm harvesting vegetables.
I provided her a car and paid for the gas, that was a business agreement[1], good grades = car privileges. The rest of her spending money all through highschool and now college came from her own pocket.
[1] those good grades and her good act score (35) resulted in getting nice academic scholarships [2]
[2] which will benefit her more than us. Before she went to school we told her we had a certain pot of gold earmarked for college, and she could spend it all undergrad, or be thrifty and any left over could be applied to her masters should she choose to go on. She chose a school that had a good reputation in her desired field that also offered her a very attractive scholarship.
I'm proud of her, smart kid, she'll do well in life.
Good job! We did something similar with the kids wrt to the weddings, as parents of the bride we were expected to pay for the weddings but weren’t about to let ourselves be soaked for unlimited extravagance. So we told each daughter that we would give them $10,000 when they got engaged and they could spend it as they saw fit, on the wedding or whatever else. Both of them planned a very frugal small ceremony and spent as little as possible so they could keep the balance for other things.
The only grief we got was when the second daughter complained that her $10k wasn’t worth as much as what her sister got because of inflation. Our response was, well you should have found a man sooner.
Post by: Mr Pou on November 30, 2021, 08:18:37 AM
So we told each daughter that we would give them $10,000 when they got engaged and they could spend it as they saw fit, on the wedding or whatever else.
That's a fabulous way to handle it. Want a semi-fancy wedding? Blow the $10k. Or, do a small wedding and make a down payment on a house. I think giving them the choice with a limited fund opens their minds a bit.
Our daughter buys all of her own clothes, and shops almost exclusively at Goodwill and thrift shops. She finds really nice cute things for not a lot of money, and has even converted some of her friends into being "thrifties".
Post by: Rush on November 30, 2021, 08:31:15 AM
That's a fabulous way to handle it. Want a semi-fancy wedding? Blow the $10k. Or, do a small wedding and make a down payment on a house. I think giving them the choice with a limited fund opens their minds a bit.
Our daughter buys all of her own clothes, and shops almost exclusively at Goodwill and thrift shops. She finds really nice cute things for not a lot of money, and has even converted some of her friends into being "thrifties".
It’s amazing how kids’ attitudes about money changes when you make them responsible for managing their own.
Post by: Dweyant on November 30, 2021, 09:28:17 AM
We sat her down and said we will pay for tuition and fees, everything else is on you. We "helped" her a bit, but she has been able to make up everything else with summer jobs, internships and scholarships.
With her new job they are going to pay for her Masters.
Pretty sure she is quite a bit smarter than me....
-Dan
Post by: Mr Pou on November 30, 2021, 09:31:57 AM
My daughter is a Senior in college (Engineering). She graduates in May and has already accepted a leadership fast track position with a large defense contractor.
Congrats to you and your great kid! If you haven't, one thing I always tell graduating college kids as they get their 1st job is to immediately sign up for the company 401k, and put in 10% to start. Then, every raise, split that raise with you and your 401k. Get a 4% raise? Up the 401k to 12%, and enjoy the other 2%. Do this every raise, and you will retire well (or even early) without too much pain.
Post by: nddons on November 30, 2021, 09:56:58 AM
Sexist!(https://media0.giphy.com/media/NEvPzZ8bd1V4Y/giphy.gif)
Post by: Rush on November 30, 2021, 11:08:38 AM
Congrats to you and your great kid! If you haven't, one thing I always tell graduating college kids as they get their 1st job is to immediately sign up for the company 401k, and put in 10% to start. Then, every raise, split that raise with you and your 401k. Get a 4% raise? Up the 401k to 12%, and enjoy the other 2%. Do this every raise, and you will retire well (or even early) without too much pain.
Excellent advice.
Post by: Rush on November 30, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
My daughter is a Senior in college (Engineering). She graduates in May and has already accepted a leadership fast track position with a large defense contractor.
We sat her down and said we will pay for tuition and fees, everything else is on you. We "helped" her a bit, but she has been able to make up everything else with summer jobs, internships and scholarships.
With her new job they are going to pay for her Masters.
Pretty sure she is quite a bit smarter than me....
-Dan
That is awesome. STEM is the way to go, with all the boomers retiring they should have no trouble remaining employed.
Post by: texasag93 on November 30, 2021, 12:38:29 PM
Great post. Your daughter learned well. It’s AMAZING how many servers don’t grasp the kindness and smiling equation. My starting point for those women are 25%. (15% or 20% for dude servers, just because they are dudes.)
Boobs will have that affect on men.
Post by: nddons on November 30, 2021, 12:46:58 PM
Boobs will have that affect on men.We are easy to please.
Post by: Dweyant on November 30, 2021, 12:58:10 PM
Congrats to you and your great kid! If you haven't, one thing I always tell graduating college kids as they get their 1st job is to immediately sign up for the company 401k, and put in 10% to start. Then, every raise, split that raise with you and your 401k. Get a 4% raise? Up the 401k to 12%, and enjoy the other 2%. Do this every raise, and you will retire well (or even early) without too much pain.
Absolutely. We have already had that conversation. Actually we might have done too good of a job. When she was a freshman in college she was struggling a bit with the adjustment. She called me at 5:00 am one morning in a panic because she didn't have a 401K setup yet..... :)
Post by: Dweyant on November 30, 2021, 01:00:19 PM
That is awesome. STEM is the way to go, with all the boomers retiring they should have no trouble remaining employed.
She tried to resist the dark side, but with both parents being engineers she finally had to admit that was just the way her brain was wired.
Now she is having a ball running hoards of geeky engineering boys.
Post by: Rush on November 30, 2021, 01:46:54 PM
She tried to resist the dark side, but with both parents being engineers she finally had to admit that was just the way her brain was wired.
Now she is having a ball running hoards of geeky engineering boys.
Our daughters did the reverse. They started out towards engineering because both of us are engineers and they figured it was wired as you say, but both discovered it wasn't for them. The oldest got her BS in nursing and is now going for her PhD at Duke. She is the only one of the family that is an extrovert and had to figure out that she didn't want to sit in an engineer's cubicle, but wanted to work with people.
The youngest, after deciding she can't stand math, got a "worthless BA" in psychology but she's an introvert like both her parents, so doesn't want to actually talk to people, but rather study them from a distance, and, despite the worthless BA, she has been steadily employed, doing marketing research for a famous show host that shall remain unnamed, then working for an affirmative action consulting firm, and now switching to a job doing real estate market surveys.
But both of them married.... wait for it.... engineers! You cannot escape nerd DNA, it will get you one way or another.