PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on April 20, 2022, 06:19:05 AM
-
No, not me! I was born 100% female still am and always will be.
But some of you might remember that I said I hung out with a lot of gay/trans in my youth. This was in the 1970s and 80s. ALL the trans were male to female. I never met a female to male until well into the 21st century.
Female to male trans may have always existed, but they were extremely rare as compared to male to female. You had masculine lesbians and they often took on traditional male roles in their relationships (because someone ought to!) but they didn’t actually want to cut part of their arm off to fashion a fake dick. And they were, as far as I could tell, psychologically healthy, as opposed to the male to female trans, who were almost always deeply messed up.
Wow. Look at what’s happening today. Shoving this issue into the spotlight and making it a woke cause has created a slew of what I call “pseudo-trans” with horrific consequences. Thank goodness this girl didn’t do any irreversible surgery but she is typical of thousands of teen girls now being misled into believing they have gender dysphoria.
Not only does this hurt girls who don’t actually have it but think they do, it has resulted in a backlash against true transgenders, who really need to be identified early. It has necessitated things such as legal bans on transgender treatment of minors. As a libertarian I am firmly against the government interfering in medical decisions parents make for their children. Such laws were not necessary in the 70s and 80s but now since the majority of female to male child/teen transgenders don’t actually have the disorder, they should be protected against irreversible mutilation. But swept into that are the genuine male to female TGs who would benefit from early intervention.
The woke publicity has muddied it up to the point that both true and pseudo transgenders are being hurt. It should have remained entirely in the medical realm, a private matter, with ongoing research to help these people. The left don’t actually care about them and they care even less about all the collateral damage being done to people who, if not for the tsunami of media on the subject, it would never occur to they might not be the gender they were born as.
It would never have occurred to this girl if not for the flood of attention, all in one biased direction, on the subject.
-
There is no such thing as a "Trans Sexual". It's a made up phrase that certain people demand the rest of us accept.
-
There is no such thing as a "Trans Sexual". It's a made up phrase that certain people demand the rest of us accept.
Technically there is, but it’s an infinitesimal minority born with abnormal chromosomes resulting in intersex characteristics.
This is not what we’re talking about. The “transgenders” that are chromosomally normal actually have “gender dysphoria” which is medicaleese for “unhappy with my gender”. The very definition of which implies only two genders and that you are actually one of them, but you don’t like that fact.
It’s a real thing and there is science behind it. The brains of trans people are subtly different from cisgendered people shown on scans and autopsy. Therefore I don’t dismiss it as all “psychological” or a voluntary choice. These people deserve help and answers. But the solution is not to turn all human biology upside down and force society to accept a ludicrous fantasy world of ubiquitous gender fluidity.
It’s insane what’s happening and it’s all leftoid lunacy trying to destroy the very foundations upon which society rests. Which is actually a prescient quote from the Rocky Horror Picture Show if memory serves.
-
Technically there is, but it’s an infinitesimal minority born with abnormal chromosomes resulting in intersex characteristics.
This is not what we’re talking about. The “transgenders” that are chromosomally normal actually have “gender dysphoria” which is medicaleese for “unhappy with my gender”. The very definition of which implies only two genders and that you are actually one of them, but you don’t like that fact.
It’s a real thing and there is science behind it. The brains of trans people are subtly different from cisgendered people shown on scans and autopsy. Therefore I don’t dismiss it as all “psychological” or a voluntary choice. These people deserve help and answers. But the solution is not to turn all human biology upside down and force society to accept a ludicrous fantasy world of ubiquitous gender fluidity.
It’s insane what’s happening and it’s all leftoid lunacy trying to destroy the very foundations upon which society rests. Which is actually a prescient quote from the Rocky Horror Picture Show if memory serves.
Nope. We are under constant attack to redifine everything around us to fit a narrative. A narrative the lunatic left controls. We are being forced to accept "the new normal" which is anything but.
Example, the guy that calls himself Rachel Levine. He's a man that dresses up as a woman, and DEMANDS you treat him as such. If he was truly a "trans" he would undergo the knife and remove those male sex organs. Yet he and the other so called "trans" want to hang on to those male sex organs.
I'm not buying into their fucked up fantasy world, and no one should be forced to.
-
Technically there is, but it’s an infinitesimal minority born with abnormal chromosomes resulting in intersex characteristics.
This is not what we’re talking about. The “transgenders” that are chromosomally normal actually have “gender dysphoria” which is medicaleese for “unhappy with my gender”. The very definition of which implies only two genders and that you are actually one of them, but you don’t like that fact.
It’s a real thing and there is science behind it. The brains of trans people are subtly different from cisgendered people shown on scans and autopsy. Therefore I don’t dismiss it as all “psychological” or a voluntary choice. These people deserve help and answers. But the solution is not to turn all human biology upside down and force society to accept a ludicrous fantasy world of ubiquitous gender fluidity.
It’s insane what’s happening and it’s all leftoid lunacy trying to destroy the very foundations upon which society rests. Which is actually a prescient quote from the Rocky Horror Picture Show if memory serves.
As always, well said and reasoned. You sure you're a girl? ;D
-
Technically there is, but it’s an infinitesimal minority born with abnormal chromosomes resulting in intersex characteristics.
This is not what we’re talking about. The “transgenders” that are chromosomally normal actually have “gender dysphoria” which is medicaleese for “unhappy with my gender”. The very definition of which implies only two genders and that you are actually one of them, but you don’t like that fact.
It’s a real thing and there is science behind it. The brains of trans people are subtly different from cisgendered people shown on scans and autopsy. Therefore I don’t dismiss it as all “psychological” or a voluntary choice. These people deserve help and answers. But the solution is not to turn all human biology upside down and force society to accept a ludicrous fantasy world of ubiquitous gender fluidity.
It’s insane what’s happening and it’s all leftoid lunacy trying to destroy the very foundations upon which society rests. Which is actually a prescient quote from the Rocky Horror Picture Show if memory serves.
So there are some people out there with a legit mental disorder and others who are mostly just fucked up in their heads by their own design?
-
No, not me! I was born 100% female still am and always will be.
But some of you might remember that I said I hung out with a lot of gay/trans in my youth. This was in the 1970s and 80s. ALL the trans were male to female. I never met a female to male until well into the 21st century.
Female to male trans may have always existed, but they were extremely rare as compared to male to female. You had masculine lesbians and they often took on traditional male roles in their relationships (because someone ought to!) but they didn’t actually want to cut part of their arm off to fashion a fake dick. And they were, as far as I could tell, psychologically healthy, as opposed to the male to female trans, who were almost always deeply messed up.
Wow. Look at what’s happening today. Shoving this issue into the spotlight and making it a woke cause has created a slew of what I call “pseudo-trans” with horrific consequences. Thank goodness this girl didn’t do any irreversible surgery but she is typical of thousands of teen girls now being misled into believing they have gender dysphoria.
Not only does this hurt girls who don’t actually have it but think they do, it has resulted in a backlash against true transgenders, who really need to be identified early. It has necessitated things such as legal bans on transgender treatment of minors. As a libertarian I am firmly against the government interfering in medical decisions parents make for their children. Such laws were not necessary in the 70s and 80s but now since the majority of female to male child/teen transgenders don’t actually have the disorder, they should be protected against irreversible mutilation. But swept into that are the genuine male to female TGs who would benefit from early intervention.
The woke publicity has muddied it up to the point that both true and pseudo transgenders are being hurt. It should have remained entirely in the medical realm, a private matter, with ongoing research to help these people. The left don’t actually care about them and they care even less about all the collateral damage being done to people who, if not for the tsunami of media on the subject, it would never occur to they might not be the gender they were born as.
It would never have occurred to this girl if not for the flood of attention, all in one biased direction, on the subject.
That is super sad, but if I heard her right, she didn’t initiate the gender questioning on her own. It sounded like societal pressures caused her to go there. That’s sick and disgusting that people can make others feel that way.
-
So there are some people out there with a legit mental disorder and others who are mostly just fucked up in their heads by their own design?
Pretty much. You can tell a real transgender by the fact that they’ve had their gender dysphoria from earliest memory. Nobody else gave them the idea and they kept it secret from others throughout childhood. They are solidly certain about it. The fake ones typically get the idea as teens from news and social media like the girl in this interview, and are much more likely to claim they’re on some spectrum in between, or vacillate back and forth, they’re “confused” or there are more than two genders and they’re one of the non binary ones. This is strikingly different from true transgenders who always accepted there are only two genders and they are definitely the one opposite from the one they were physically born with.
What is most alarming is the push to “educate” young children about the subject, because it will result in causing a lot of this fake transgender confusion in very young children. This will be disastrous for many reasons. One is that it will make it that much more difficult to identify true transgenders from the fake ones. Another is the permanent harm done to the fake ones, especially if hormone and surgical therapy is initiated before puberty. Yet another is to cause needless self doubt among kids who conclude they are normal, but never should have had to ask themselves the question in the first place.
True transgenders are a tiny minority of the population. If your mission by “educating” all kindergartners is to make it easy for the true ones to get help, you are sacrificing the health of the vast majority and causing more total harm than good. This isn’t to say nothing should be done to help true transgenders. I advocate educating adults only. There are signs your child is TG even if they try to hide it. Parents can get them the help they need, and I do not support government interfering with that. We could have done it like that without mass media attention pushing it onto children causing a lot of induced pseudo-transgenderism.
But it’s too late. That ship has sailed. The wacko woke leftoids have let the horse out and now we can’t close the barn door. We can try to save children by banning TG procedures but that is anathema to freedom and limited government, will hurt the true TGs, and will also hurt children born with actual birth defects ie, ambiguous genitalia, or hormone abnormalities that legitimately need sexual assignment treatment.
So once again the left has no one to blame but themselves if they don’t like laws banning TG treatment for minors. They caused it by constantly forcing it down the public’s throats. Before that it didn’t occur to politicians to get involved.
-
Nope. We are under constant attack to redifine everything around us to fit a narrative. A narrative the lunatic left controls. We are being forced to accept "the new normal" which is anything but.
True.
Example, the guy that calls himself Rachel Levine. He's a man that dresses up as a woman, and DEMANDS you treat him as such. If he was truly a "trans" he would undergo the knife and remove those male sex organs. Yet he and the other so called "trans" want to hang on to those male sex organs.
Some might not want to undergo the genital surgery because they know it has a high risk of horrific complications. Even if a “success” the result is far from equal to the natural equipment. But actually I think Rachel Levine has had the surgery.
I'm not buying into their fucked up fantasy world, and no one should be forced to.
Agree.
-
Our lib daughter has tried mightily to get us to pretend that preferred pronouns are so necessary that they should be legally required with huge fines for violations.
I keep telling her that I refuse to participate in endorsing mental illness and the trannies the mentally ill are promoting.
It took her some time to realize I was telling her that she was acting like a mental case.
-
Our lib daughter has tried mightily to get us to pretend that preferred pronouns are so necessary that they should be legally required with huge fines for violations.
I keep telling her that I refuse to participate in endorsing mental illness and the trannies the mentally ill are promoting.
It took her some time to realize I was telling her that she was acting like a mental case.
Huge fines for not calling someone their preferred pronoun? Does your daughter realize she’s an authoritarian? That would be the opposite of being pro freedom.
-
As a libertarian I am firmly against the government interfering in medical decisions parents make for their children.
As you know, I am also solidly libertarian. But a I think a case can be made that there are some medical decisions a parent should not be allowed to make for a child.
Classic example is a Jehovah’s Witness parent refusing a life saving blood transfusion for the child.
I am not quite sure where sex change falls on this spectrum. I think that taking permanent measures to alter gender before a person is a full adult is rather serious. And of course teenage brains are overrun with all sorts of hormonal overloads.
OTOH, people seriously suffering for years from puberty through 18 is a lot.
The other thing which concerns me is that my understanding from some years back is that transitioning does not cure the dysphoria in a reliable way.
-
As you know, I am also solidly libertarian. But a I think a case can be made that there are some medical decisions a parent should not be allowed to make for a child.
Classic example is a Jehovah’s Witness parent refusing a life saving blood transfusion for the child.
I am not quite sure where sex change falls on this spectrum. I think that taking permanent measures to alter gender before a person is a full adult is rather serious. And of course teenage brains are overrun with all sorts of hormonal overloads.
OTOH, people seriously suffering for years from puberty through 18 is a lot.
The other thing which concerns me is that my understanding from some years back is that transitioning does not cure the dysphoria in a reliable way.
Agree, I too can see both sides. I can think of two transgenders I personally knew who were happy with the change and never looked back. However, if they had been able to take puberty blockers when young, they would have looked much better. One in particular was comparable to Rachel Levine in appearance. I can image they must continue to have body dysphoria in a major way.
Another, my childhood friend, would talk to me about secret things from the age of 12, such as, “I shaved my legs. Don’t tell anybody.” This was way back when such things weren’t spoken of publicly. He told me he had always wanted to be a girl. At the age of 16 he was hospitalized with major depression and suicidal thoughts. We were the same age, that was the year I started finding out about the whole gay subculture. In the ensuing years my friend embarked on a self destructive path of sex with strangers (men), several suicide attempts and multiple hospitalizations. He finally succeeded killing himself at age 23.
That person was to me like a girlfriend. It’s hard to articulate exactly how but his personality and how we related were like he was female and it was like that from the start before I really knew what a “transgender” was. This is why I believe the studies that say there are physical differences in the brains of gay and trans people. Not identical to the opposite sex but different from normally oriented people.
That is an individual who might have been saved to live a happy life had they been identified and raised as female from a very early age. That is, if his depression was caused only by the gender issue. But those people are rare, and the consequences of misdiagnosis are so severe, we can’t risk getting it wrong. At this point it seems way too risky to allow children to begin transitioning.
It’s like, we will put 5% of children at risk for less than 1% of true transgenders- that’s my quick guess about the numbers. Not back then, but today, for every true transgender there are at least five fake ones and that is M to F. For F to M the ratio is probably 100 to 1.
So from a libertarian perspective do you take away the freedom of the one to protect the five and the hundred? Public policy is “yes”. After all, they want to force vaccination on all of us to protect the 1% who die of Covid. If the left justifies that, how much more should they support banning children from transitioning? The harm to the majority from gender dysphoria misdiagnosis is way more than the risk of vaccine side effects.
-
... I think that taking permanent measures to alter gender before a person is a full adult is rather serious. ...
correction: the person's gender is not altered. The person's body is mutilated, but until some time in the sci-fi future when you can replace the XY with XX or XX with XY, the gender isn't changed.
-
correction: the person's gender is not altered. The person's body is mutilated, but until some time in the sci-fi future when you can replace the XY with XX or XX with XY, the gender isn't changed.
^^This. It’s yet another reality that we’re being told to pretend is not reality, with various levels of punishment for failing to do so.
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak
-
correction: the person's gender is not altered. The person's body is mutilated, but until some time in the sci-fi future when you can replace the XY with XX or XX with XY, the gender isn't changed.
You're right Bob, perhaps I should have said that I think taking permanent measures to alter someone's apparent gender or sex is a bad idea. It is a form of mutilation. When I first started medical school we were taught that there was no good evidence this actually helped the patient psychologically or psychiatrically. Therefore it was not ethical to perform such procedures.
-
So from a libertarian perspective do you take away the freedom of the one to protect the five and the hundred? Public policy is “yes”. After all, they want to force vaccination on all of us to protect the 1% who die of Covid. If the left justifies that, how much more should they support banning children from transitioning? The harm to the majority from gender dysphoria misdiagnosis is way more than the risk of vaccine side effects.
A very thoughtful and interesting post. I don't think we have a legal right to stop adults from doing what they want to themselves. But prior to 18, in our society, we hold that minors do not have full legal rights. The age can be debated and perhaps a more transitioned approach would be better. But for minors I think of the question as whether we recognize those rights, not whether we take them away.
-
A very thoughtful and interesting post. I don't think we have a legal right to stop adults from doing what they want to themselves. But prior to 18, in our society, we hold that minors do not have full legal rights. The age can be debated and perhaps a more transitioned approach would be better. But for minors I think of the question as whether we recognize those rights, not whether we take them away.
Agree that minors don't have full legal rights, but I generally recognize the parents as having all rights that would otherwise be their children's, in other words, to be able to make decisions for the child, including healthcare decisions. This doesn't give them the right to abuse their children. But we get into a big grey area when attempting to define "abuse". Some parents have been accused of child abuse for homeschooling their kids. Beating them to the point of broken bones is abuse, all reasonable people would agree. Is spanking? Your example of Jehovah's Witnesses arguably qualifies, because blood transfusion is understood as basic medical care in today's world. What about experimental new procedures? Should parents have the right to refuse new unproven treatments? How about the covid vaccine? I would say gender reassignment is extreme enough for society to intervene, but only because more harm will be done to non-true TGs. Unfortunately this results in more harm to true TGs who will now be denied the opportunity to get early treatment.
The problem with what you were taught in medical school is probably that all the transitioned cases didn't happen until adulthood, when it is too late to block puberty effects. The bad psychological outcomes might simply be the result of inability to ever "pass" as the other gender, physically. There are probably exceptions though. I was a childbirth educator and learned a lot about circumcision of newborns. Sometimes the procedure goes very badly and the entire penis is lost. What they used to do in some of those cases was remove the testicles and raise the child as female. These cases were absolute disasters. Obviously because the child felt themselves male on the inside.
True transgenders are somewhat analogous in that they too feel from the start that they're being raised in the wrong gender. The difference of course is that they possess the right chromosomes and gonads (hormones) for their birth gender, so the cause of their dysphoria is not at all clear.
-
I would say gender reassignment is extreme enough for society to intervene, but only because more harm will be done to non-true TGs. Unfortunately this results in more harm to true TGs who will now be denied the opportunity to get early treatment.
Very nice analysis with which I completely agree. I think the quoted part is a very good libertarian way to look at it for minors.
Adults should be allowed to mutilate themselves if they wish. I'm not sure I would want to belong to a medical society that encouraged or facilitated it though.
-
Adults should be allowed to mutilate themselves if they wish. I'm not sure I would want to belong to a medical society that encouraged or facilitated it though.
Would such surgery be classed as elective? Why, if the “condition” is a real one?
Should health insurance and, say, the military for enlisted people, be required to pay for it?
The trans state is like the gay state … in the mind. Where might codifying and legitimizing and financing states of mind lead in terms of culture and business and on down the line?
-
My problem with shoe scam is the communists (they call themselves democrats) screaming about the ‘right’ of children to change their sex and have abortions without parental permission are the same lying assholes who say those same kids can’t smoke a cigarette or drink a beer, but we are supposed to be ok with them mutilating themselves.
Groomers may come in all shapes and sizes but they are almost only of the left.
-
Would such surgery be classed as elective? Why, if the “condition” is a real one?
Should health insurance and, say, the military for enlisted people, be required to pay for it?
The trans state is like the gay state … in the mind. Where might codifying and legitimizing and financing states of mind lead in terms of culture and business and on down the line?
I was going to say that too, I agree with Peter that adults should be allowed - or rather, not be prevented from exercising their freedoms! - to do anything they want to themselves, but the rest of us should not be required to pay for it. That’s where I have a big problem.
In fact I have a big problem even paying for anyone’s necessary real medical treatment, outside of insurance. Buying private insurance voluntarily is a way to spread cost evenly through subscribers. In a world where it’s a real free market, insurance would be affordable (for example if it weren’t regulated across state lines etc.) but with our hybrid healthcare system it’s not possible for many to afford it.
As usual the government has messed it all up. Medicare drives up cost. The tax law that allowed companies to compensate employees with health insurance has made it so the only way most people can afford insurance is to work for a company with a group policy, and Medicaid is plain socialized entitlement. All of this and more wrecks the free market and forces us to participate in a system that transfers cost to unwilling payers.
And since it is what it is, I do not support paying for any elective surgery and by “elective” I mean on normal healthy tissue, for any psychological reason. (A non-psychological reason might be for example prophylactic double mastectomy in those with extremely high chance of getting breast cancer. Another might be eye lift when the upper eyelid droops so low it starts to interfere with your vision. And I do mean normal, in other words, if you have a very ugly birth defect but the tissue is healthy, you can get it fixed for psychological reasons, because it’s not “normal”.)
The truth is that gender reassignment “bottom” surgery, as it’s known, is fraught with serious complications. You start with normal, healthy, functional genitalia and you completely disrupt and rearrange everything. The result is not even close to a normal functioning set of genitals of the opposite sex, but rather at best a good approximation in appearance anyway. The new “vagina” doesn’t function exactly like a woman’s. It doesn’t lubricate naturally for example. There’s no uterus so you can’t have children. A fabricated penis cannot get naturally erect, and of course the “balls” are prosthetic, there’s no sperm so you can’t father children.
For that you risk loss of feeling or greatly reduced feeling, loss of ability to orgasm, blood flow complications, infections, urinary complications, fistulas, etc. Not all get these complications and some are happy with the transformation. Good for them. But the high rate of ongoing cost to address complications means even more money from unwilling payers in the form of insurance premiums and taxes.
Even then! … I might let it slide, if I knew the only people undergoing the procedure were true transgenders. But because the lunatic woke crowd has made such a circus out of this - a cult really - we have brainwashed tranny wannabes jumping on the bandwagon and massively increasing the numbers - hence cost! - involved here.
I can’t help but think that the medical community involved sees a huge cash cow and I wonder if the criteria they use to approve surgery is not nearly strict enough. They require you to live openly as the opposite sex for one year. And you’re an adult at 18? Are you fucking kidding me? Who among us had ourselves all figured out at age 19! You should be required to live as the other sex for 5 years in my opinion and be at least 28 years old, until they do the research needed to identify true transgenders very early - which they haven’t done, and now all the harder because of putting the idea into little kids heads.
This is a wreck, caused by the left. Not caused by true transgenders who have always been with us, but caused by the left using it for political and social power. It’s disgusting.
-
This is a wreck, caused by the left. Not caused by true transgenders who have always been with us, but caused by the left using it for political and social power. It’s disgusting.
Good viewpoints all, Rush.
The left always reminds me of Tonya Harding hiring a thug to bash Nancy Kerrigan on the knee.
They’re happy to call everyone who thinks through an issue in terms of fairness and reason and nuance a “hater,” while hoping no one notices the hate they seethe with and spew endlessly.
-
My problem with shoe scam is the communists (they call themselves democrats) screaming about the ‘right’ of children to change their sex and have abortions without parental permission are the same lying assholes who say those same kids can’t smoke a cigarette or drink a beer, but we are supposed to be ok with them mutilating themselves.
Groomers may come in all shapes and sizes but they are almost only of the left.
And those “children” [once thoroughly groomed and hypnotized], should be able to VOTE, according to the left.
-
Good viewpoints all, Rush.
The left always reminds me of Tonya Harding hiring a thug to bash Nancy Kerrigan on the knee.
They’re happy to call everyone who thinks through an issue in terms of fairness and reason and nuance a “hater,” while hoping no one notices the hate they seethe with and spew endlessly.
Interesting point. I would be called “transphobic” for expressing my views above. But in reality right there in my views you can see that I have concern and compassion for true transgenders. I’m pointing out that their cause is actually being set back and hurt by woke madness on the subject. They don’t like to hear that truth so they’d have to cancel me.
For example, bathroom laws. Nobody made laws forbidding use of the other bathroom, nor requiring you allow the use of the wrong bathroom, before the left came along screeching about transgenders. Society managed somehow. If a male tranny used the ladies room most of the time it was unnoticed. When in a public restroom do you make a point of looking others in the face? Do you make a point of thinking about whether they seem a bit too masculine or feminine to be there with you? I know I don’t. I hope most people mind their own business in rest rooms. Or at least we did before this was all thrown up on the public wall 24/7. But now suddenly we are all supposed to be hyper aware of the genitals of our co-public restroom users.
Furthermore, using the wrong one or forbidding the use of the wrong one are criminalized! That kind of authoritarian control over society didn’t happen before the left made this such an issue. Authoritarianism on both sides has increased. That’s a typical result of leftism because despite their rhetoric about “rights”, they’re actually authoritarian control freaks, nothing more.
They’re using a real but very rare disorder to destroy natural social behavior, erode peaceful coexistence, for the ultimate purpose of creating the need to impose total top down control. It’s just one direction of attack, mask mandates are another, and on and on. They’re priming us to accept tyranny.