PILOT SPIN

Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Username on August 24, 2022, 10:00:58 AM

Title: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Username on August 24, 2022, 10:00:58 AM
Makes me glad that I worked hard and paid back my student loans so now I can pay back someone else's student loans.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/24/politics/student-loans-joe-biden-white-house/index.html


Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 24, 2022, 10:13:44 AM
The WSJ has an article on this and pointed out that WH Chief of Staff Ron Klain had tried to convince Biden to do the debt forgiveness because it would be popular with young college voters. When I saw Username's post I went back to the article to quote that portion, but the WSJ editors had already removed it.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: jb1842 on August 24, 2022, 10:27:59 AM
And to think my dumbass took CLEP tests and tuition assistance while active duty then used my GI Bill while working 50+ hours a week to graduate debt free.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Username on August 24, 2022, 10:38:38 AM
I worked while I did my undergrad program.  Took an extra couple of semesters but I graduated debt free.  Worked for a few years and then decided to go back to school.  Saved a bunch and had enough for the MS.  Decided that the academic life was for me and continued for the PhD.  Didn't save enough for that and work didn't pay enough so took out student loans.  Got married, lived VERY frugally (we agreed to live on only one of our incomes and bank the rest, she makes more than I do) for a couple of years and paid back all of our loans.  Still living on one (of two) incomes and wondering where we should retire and what kind of second airplane to buy.  I guess our mistake was getting degrees in something that pays.  Not gender studies in underwater basketweaving non-white art appreciation.  Where their first job after graduation consists of "Do you want fries with that?"
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: nddons on August 24, 2022, 11:27:44 AM
Biden has no legal authority to incur this cost to the government. Someone should read the Constitution to him every once in a while.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Number7 on August 24, 2022, 11:41:25 AM
When did communist democrats decide that the only parts of the law that matter are the ones they agree with - subject to change without notice?
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Old Crow on August 24, 2022, 12:02:38 PM
Gonna be interesting to see if the rest of the Dims running for reelection back 'Brandon' up on this.  Waiting for our Senator Hassan to make an announcement.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 24, 2022, 01:28:53 PM
a trillion here, a trillion there, pretty soon ....
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 24, 2022, 02:14:10 PM
Biden has no legal authority to incur this cost to the government. Someone should read the Constitution to him every once in a while.
Unless Congress wrote slush fund money into a bill somewhere.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: nddons on August 24, 2022, 02:30:14 PM
Unless Congress wrote slush fund money into a bill somewhere.
Fuck this fucking fucker. Fucking coward can’t answer a simple question.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Chp7UMNA2kc/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Rush on August 24, 2022, 02:38:20 PM
I was an undergrad for 9 years.  Spent six years getting a worthless double major in underwater basket weaving (economics and business management) before I saw the light and got into the engineering department.  I worked two or three part time jobs all along and graduated the second time with only $7000 student loan debt.  Got accepted into grad school but decided not to take on more debt and went out to work instead.  I’m looking forward to my $7000 rebate plus interest the government is going to give me because I paid back my loan.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 24, 2022, 02:55:09 PM
I just listened to a speech by Rand Paul titled “Not Yours to Give.”

Congress does not have the right to give away our money. Not for charity … that is an option for individuals using their personal funds.

Not for political gain … that is seditious perfidy. And not to reward irresponsibility. Not for anything. Even to other countries. They’ve been doing it for a long time but they do not have the right.
 
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: nddons on August 24, 2022, 03:18:19 PM
I just listened to a speech by Rand Paul titled “Not Yours to Give.”

Congress does not have the right to give away our money. Not for charity … that is an option for individuals using their personal funds.

Not for political gain … that is seditious perfidy. And not to reward irresponsibility. Not for anything. Even to other countries. They’ve been doing it for a long time but they do not have the right.
Seditious perfidy!  You are my favorite person of the week for using that term, Becky!    I’m stealing it.

I just found a transcript. I’ll have to read it.

https://libertytree.com/randpaul/2537
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Anthony on August 24, 2022, 03:22:00 PM
Seditious perfidy!  You are my favorite person of the week for using that term, Becky!    I’m stealing it.

I just found a transcript. I’ll have to read it.

https://libertytree.com/randpaul/2537

Add me to that list.  Go Becky!

We are seeing Sedition right before our eyes.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 24, 2022, 03:49:45 PM
They should send everyone of these MF'ers a 1099
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 24, 2022, 03:51:41 PM
They should send everyone of these MF'ers a 1099

Why wouldn't they get a 1099?

Doesn't everyone who gets a loan forgiven get a 1099?

Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Username on August 24, 2022, 03:55:06 PM
Why wouldn't they get a 1099?

Doesn't everyone who gets a loan forgiven get a 1099?
Looks like a taxable event: forgiving a loan. And won't that be a kick in the crotch... you have $10,000 of loan that's paid over time forgiven, and now you owe $5000 right now to the IRS to pay for that loan forgiveness.  Now we know what the 87,000 new agents are for.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 24, 2022, 04:25:06 PM
Looks like a taxable event: forgiving a loan. And won't that be a kick in the crotch... you have $10,000 of loan that's paid over time forgiven, and now you owe $5000 right now to the IRS to pay for that loan forgiveness.  Now we know what the 87,000 new agents are for.

owing $5000 on that loan?  only if you are in the really high brackets.

I think a lot of people would get hit for something like $2200 or less (especially those geniuses that majored in basket weaving...)

edit:  wait - what a clever way to generate tax revenue (in the short term)
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 24, 2022, 06:20:09 PM
Why wouldn't they get a 1099?

Doesn't everyone who gets a loan forgiven get a 1099?
I would bet it doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: nddons on August 24, 2022, 07:45:51 PM
Looks like a taxable event: forgiving a loan. And won't that be a kick in the crotch... you have $10,000 of loan that's paid over time forgiven, and now you owe $5000 right now to the IRS to pay for that loan forgiveness.  Now we know what the 87,000 new agents are for.
Any loan forgiveness gives rise to taxable income, unless specifically exempted by Congress. 
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Username on August 25, 2022, 05:10:30 AM
owing $5000 on that loan?  only if you are in the really high brackets.

I think a lot of people would get hit for something like $2200 or less (especially those geniuses that majored in basket weaving...)

edit:  wait - what a clever way to generate tax revenue (in the short term)
You're right.  The marginal tax on incomes of $100,000 is 24%.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2022, 05:51:42 AM
The banks should absorb this loss, not the taxpayers. But politicians and banksters, but I repeat myself, never are going to let that happen.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Anthony on August 25, 2022, 07:15:38 AM
Any loan forgiveness gives rise to taxable income, unless specifically exempted by Congress.

Which if it hasn't already happened it certainly will.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 25, 2022, 07:51:03 AM
The banks should absorb this loss, not the taxpayers. But politicians and banksters, but I repeat myself, never are going to let that happen.

why should the banks absorb the loss?

Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Rush on August 25, 2022, 08:19:08 AM
Depends who made the loan. Federal student loans are direct from the government.  Student loans from a bank are private and covered under different terms.  I assume the debt forgiveness package only applies to Federal loans.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: elwood blues on August 25, 2022, 08:51:39 AM
The banks should absorb this loss, not the taxpayers.


The universities should absorb this loss -- they got insanely rich from it, and if they were on the hook, it would put an immediate end to worthless degrees.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Username on August 25, 2022, 08:54:38 AM

The universities should absorb this loss -- they got insanely rich from it, and if they were on the hook, it would put an immediate end to worthless degrees.
I'd like to think so.  But no.  Universities hate the "professional schools" like engineering, law, business, medicine, and so on.  Those schools where graduates actually get well paying jobs.  They think universities should be for fostering theoretical "right" thinking in the humanities and other crap.  The professional schools will be the first to go.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Number7 on August 25, 2022, 09:44:12 AM
Biden To Forgive $10k In Student Loans

In Unrelated News, Nation’s Colleges Raise Tuition By $10k


President Biden announced plans today to forgive $10,000 in student loan debt for anyone making less than $125k per year. In completely unrelated news, the nation's colleges and universities announced plans to immediately raise tuition by $10,000.

"Look, Jack! Here's the deal! No malarkey at all! Not a joke!" said Biden before an aide had to step in and explain he was signing an order to forgive student loan debt.

Dr. Charles Moneybags, director of the National Association for the Advancement Of College Professors (NAACP), said he applauds the president's decision to cancel student debt for so many borrowers. "We're very excited that a college education will be more affordable for the next generation of art history majors," he said.

Moneybags then went on to explain why immediate tuition increases were necessary. "Due to an unfortunate concurrence of high inflation, global warming, and, uh, the upcoming solar eclipse in 2024, we've all had to raise our tuition by $10k," he noted. "Plus, we've had to spend a ton of money building safe spaces and bathrooms for all the new genders."


(https://media.babylonbee.com/articles/630649a3089f8630649a3089f9.jpg)


https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-to-forgive-10k-in-student-loans-in-unrelated-news-nations-colleges-raise-tuition-by-10k (https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-to-forgive-10k-in-student-loans-in-unrelated-news-nations-colleges-raise-tuition-by-10k)

Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: elwood blues on August 25, 2022, 11:05:23 AM
I'd like to think so.  But no.  Universities hate the "professional schools" like engineering, law, business, medicine, and so on.  Those schools where graduates actually get well paying jobs.  They think universities should be for fostering theoretical "right" thinking in the humanities and other crap.  The professional schools will be the first to go.


Not so, for the reasons you stated.  The schools know which degrees would and can pay them back and which ones will not/cannot.  Wymin Studies and BLM Art Appreciation would be the first programs to get cut.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2022, 11:24:42 AM

Not so, for the reasons you stated.  The schools know which degrees would and can pay them back and which ones will not/cannot.  Wymin Studies and BLM Art Appreciation would be the first programs to get cut.

What is this “pay them back” of which you speak? Isn’t that the U.S. President’s responsibility?
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Username on August 25, 2022, 11:39:41 AM

Not so, for the reasons you stated.  The schools know which degrees would and can pay them back and which ones will not/cannot.  Wymin Studies and BLM Art Appreciation would be the first programs to get cut.
I don't see that happening.  The professional schools turn out students who can get a job, but most don't earn enough to donate back to the school.  Those BIG donations tend to come from kids whose parents are rich and are getting a degree just because it's socially fun.  Those are the art appreciation and wymin studies majors.  Of course most of the donations don't go to the schools, but to sports.  Who is the highest paid university employee? Usually the football coach.  And it's because he brings in all the donations.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/education/article/What-rich-kids-like-to-study-in-college-6373470.php
Quote
A study by a Cornell sociologist showed that the children of more affluent parents frequently pick majors in college that might not yield lucrative careers.

Sociologist Kim Weeden looked at data from National Center for Education Statistics and determined that wealthy kids major in English. Or history. Or the visual and performing arts.

Students from lower-income families study more pragmatic subjects like computer science, medicine, nursing and education. The reason for this result might not simply be that rich kids get to be more whimsical with what they study in college.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 25, 2022, 11:42:52 AM
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2022/08/25/legal-basis-for-bidens-loan-debacle-n2612211
Fucking crazy shit.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Old Crow on August 25, 2022, 02:19:56 PM
To be called 'Cash for Flunkers' program
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2022, 03:19:02 PM
why should the banks absorb the loss?

For making loans that, apparently, the borrowers could not pay back. Lenders take the risk and get paid handsomely in interest for doing so.  I don’t care if it’s a fedgov or private loan. Make bad loans, pay the price.

However, I am mulling the idea of a debt jubilee for ALL debt. It was a practice in ancient times that seemed to have a healthy effect on lives and prosperity all around. But not fedgov paying anything … forgiveness precludes that.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on August 25, 2022, 03:27:24 PM
For making loans that, apparently, the borrowers could not pay back. Lenders take the risk and get paid handsomely in interest for doing so.  I don’t care if it’s a fedgov or private loan. Make bad loans, pay the price.

However, I am mulling the idea of a debt jubilee for ALL debt. It was a practice in ancient times that seemed to have a healthy effect on lives and prosperity all around. But not fedgov paying anything … forgiveness precludes that.

maybe I'm missing something.

This cash for flunkers program isn't about loan forgiveness just for people having problems paying back the loan, is it?  Do people have to show need?


btw - I agree that lenders should eat the cost if they make loans to people who can't pay back.



Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2022, 03:55:33 PM
maybe I'm missing something.

This cash for flunkers program isn't about loan forgiveness just for people having problems paying back the loan, is it?  Do people have to show need?


btw - I agree that lenders should eat the cost if they make loans to people who can't pay back.
My understanding is that fedgov actually uses taxpayer money to pay off student loans. That’s why this ludicrous act carries a $300 billion (yes, billion) price tag.  I’m not sure of the amount of each loan payoff or if it varies, but to qualify you have to be earning a certain amount of money annually. I’ve seen $75,000 and $125,000.  So you can’t be sitting in Mom’s basement apparently, which is strange … normally the fascist Commie left likes to reward non- and dysfunction.

The legitimate President commented today.

(http://)
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2022, 03:59:05 PM
Like EV manufacturers raising their prices by the amount of the government subsidy.

(http://)
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2022, 04:01:31 PM
And here’s an interesting perspective from Vox Day.

“Dear Gab commenters,

The undeniable fact is that I know considerably more about economics, debt, and credit money than you do. Not only am I an economist by training, but I correctly predicted the 2008 financial crisis and I am the author of the labor mobility refutation of free trade.

Frankly, most of you appear to be functionally retarded where economics are concerned. So, I will type very slowly in order that a few of you might be able to follow along.

Most money is debt and it comes from nowhere. It is not printed by the government, it is literally created from nothing when a loan is taken out. This is inflationary. When a loan is cancelled, forgiven, or written off, the debt literally vanishes. This is deflationary, since it reduces the amount of money in the economy.

If the loan is paid off, either by the debtor or by a third party, then no money leaves or enters the system. It is a neutral action. If interest is paid on the loan, this is mildly inflationary but trivial at current interest rates.

That’s literally how debt money works, and if you don’t understand why L.1 is bigger and more important than the M1 money supply, then please stop sharing your opinion on the subject of student loans because you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

Love,
Vox”
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 25, 2022, 05:15:18 PM
Never heard of Vox Day before. Looked him up. He appears to have studied economics in college, along with history and Japanese. So at best he majored in the subject in college. So he, AoC, Ronald Reagan, and Elon Musk all studied economics in college. Clearly a hit-and-miss with respect to granting insight. I think he and AoC were the misses.

His explanation of loans is internally contradictory. First, it'd make slightly more sense if instead of writing "Most money is debt and it comes from nowhere," he had written "Money from the Federal Reserve is debt and come from nowhere."

And if what he claims is true, paying interest on a loan from the Fed takes money out of the system and would be deflationary, not inflationary.

If the Feds loan out $1000 and the student never pays it back or the interest, that leaves the $1000 circulating and inflationary. If the student pays it back that's deflationary as he says. Paying both the principal and interest would then be deflationary.

I think he further screwed up when he wrote that the Feds writing off a loan cancels the debt (true) but it doesn't cancel the loaned money that is now in the system. That is inflationary, not deflationary.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2022, 05:26:17 PM
Thanks. It’s very hard for me to picture the activity and presence and effect and value at any given time of something that exists but came from nowhere.

I did think that yes, the loaned money is in the college coffers, presumably, to be used by them to provide an education to the borrower, so it is “in the system.” However, I understand that sometimes the loaned money doesn’t make it to the college. In some cases it doesn’t come with the stipulation that it must be used for an education, I believe. In other cases it does.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 25, 2022, 05:34:24 PM
It does seem hauntingly dysfunctional and suspicious to “pay” off the loans yet leave the predatory system in place.

https://gab.com/RepMattGaetz/posts/108885932328056996
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 25, 2022, 05:39:13 PM
Thanks. It’s very hard for me to picture the activity and presence and effect and value at any given time of something that exists but came from nowhere.

I did think that yes, the loaned money is in the college coffers, presumably, to be used by them to provide an education to the borrower, so it is “in the system.” However, I understand that sometimes the loaned money doesn’t make it to the college. In some cases it doesn’t come with the stipulation that it must be used for an education, I believe. In other cases it does.

If the only question is "Is a loan from the Fed that is cancelled inflationary?" then it doesn't seem to matter who has the money now.

If the loan came from the U.S. Treasury (which can't create money itself) then it has to get the money from somewhere else: taxpayers or borrow from the Federal Reserve (which can create money.)

By the way, I never studied economics in college, so don't trust what I say on the subject. I did attempt to take a course in macroeconomics in college but I, along with many in the class, cancelled the course in the first few days because the instructor could not speak comprehensible english. It was an elective, so no big deal. But for some it was important to their major so I think they went the more lengthier and dubious route of trying to get a different instructor.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 26, 2022, 06:51:06 AM
It seems this whole thing might be a big distraction.

It's unconstitutional … only Congress can allocate funds. Of course the RINOs could cuck as is their usual MO, but even then the SCOTUS could nix it.

Massive amount of the expense would be administrative, just determining who is eligible. And what a HUGE INVASION OF PRIVACY to do that!!!  If such a thing as privacy even exists anymore.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Becky (My pronouns are Assigned/By/God) on August 26, 2022, 07:11:18 AM
https://summit.news/2022/08/26/videos-reporters-grill-wh-press-sec-over-total-lack-of-details-on-loan-forgiveness-costs/

https://gab.com/Undefended/posts/108887368769987228

Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: EppyGA - White Christian Domestic Terrorist on August 26, 2022, 08:05:50 AM
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/legality-of-joe-bidens-student-loan-plan-relies-on-coronavirus-pandemic-2003-heroes-law/3837995/?amp=1 (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/legality-of-joe-bidens-student-loan-plan-relies-on-coronavirus-pandemic-2003-heroes-law/3837995/?amp=1)
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: nddons on August 29, 2022, 10:45:47 AM
Depends who made the loan. Federal student loans are direct from the government.  Student loans from a bank are private and covered under different terms.  I assume the debt forgiveness package only applies to Federal loans.
The problem is that in 2010, Obama eliminated the 1965 Federal Family Education Loan Program, or FFELP, which allowed private lenders to make student loans with government guarantees, and required all student loans to be direct loans by the federal government. FedGov literally eliminated competition, and started charging usurious rates.

FedGov CREATED this problem, and now is offering handouts to pick and chose winners and losers.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Anthony on August 29, 2022, 04:06:13 PM
The problem is that in 2010, Obama eliminated the 1965 Federal Family Education Loan Program, or FFELP, which allowed private lenders to make student loans with government guarantees, and required all student loans to be direct loans by the federal government. FedGov literally eliminated competition, and started charging usurious rates.

FedGov CREATED this problem, and now is offering handouts to pick and chose winners and losers.

Totally against all rational economic and financial thought, solely to turn us more into the USSR.
Title: Re: Biden forgives $10,000 in student loans
Post by: Jim Logajan on August 29, 2022, 10:28:23 PM
Makes for easy humor.
Sadly.