PILOT SPIN
Pilot Zone => Pilot Zone => Topic started by: Jaybird180 on September 12, 2022, 07:59:22 AM
-
John took some time away from flying, several years in fact. Deciding to rent from the local FBO he did some ground and flight training with one of their instructors. The instructor got John 61.56 legal again and endorsed him to rent from the FBO. The instructor got a new job in a new city.
The rental agreement says John's private insurance is primary and they provided him with minimum coverage amounts. He paid his premium for the year. The rental agreement also says that John must remain 90 days current or must do another checkout flight with them before renting their airplane. John worked out an exception that allows him to fly with ABC, inc that has the same type airplane in their fleet and as long as he does so, he is exempt from their 90 day rule.
John went flying with ABC with their CFI, Jack and did some pattern work, including a night landing to a full stop. John is now day legal according to the FARs.
John wants to improve his confidence but isn't quite ready to fly solo again. He has a friend who is a CFI and is cleared to fly and instruct with ABC. John thinks that 1 or 2 more flights just might get him where he wants to be, but there's an administrative hangup preventing ABC from dispatching any airplanes.
John proposes to his friend that they rent from the FBO and John will be legal PIC and his friend will be a passenger, but by agreement will provide instruction. The CFI friend balks at the arrangement. John wants to preserve the peace but believes the flight is 100% legit, so he finds small print in the FBO rental agreement that says that only approved pilots may operate the controls of their aircraft.
Who is right?
-
In my personal opinion, John should wait for ABC to clear their issue and fly with their plane and CFI. The reasoning is that he's familiar with their aircraft and their CFI. It would be way easier to get back in the saddle with as much familiar as possible. Do some groundschool and/or simulator flying with ABC's CFI to stay in the game. John's feeling that 1 or 2 more flights may be optimistic, but it's better to have an outside observer determine that he's safe and competent and confident.
John is legal to be PIC and he can rent from the FBO and use his friend as CFI. Unless the FBO has a "no instruction other than with our CFIs" restriction he should be good to go.
But going to an unfamiliar plane from an unfamiliar FBO with a CFI who is not comfortable with the flight would be too many strangenesses for me. Best to wait and get back to what's familiar. This may be faster and safer in the long run. Both ways are legal, but in my opinion one is better than the other.
-
John needs to buy his own airplane.
In the meantime, I agree with Username, I would not try to convince the reluctant CFI. It may be legal but it seems the CFI has a gut feel about it that he may not be able to articulate why, but that might nevertheless not be wrong.
-
I wouldn't really argue over who's right. More like the CFI isn't comfortable with that arrangement, and that should be good enough to end the debate for me. We as pilots are ingrained early on that if you don't feel comfortable, for whatever reason, you don't make the flight. And with the finger pointing, litigation happy world we live in, I wouldn't want to be a CFI instructing in an FBO plane you aren't familiar with and don't have a working relationship with. Something goes wrong, the CFI's ass is the one on the line.
-
FBO was stupid to allow an exception for John to maintain currency in another flight school’s aircraft, and John’s an idiot to try to get around their 90 day currency requirement.
Based on the facts as presented, the FBO’s limitation on sole manipulator of the flight controls shouldn’t prohibit instruction. As PIC, John is responsible. A CFI doesn’t need to be using the controls at all except in an emergency.
Thank being said, I don’t understand the controversy. If the CFI doesn’t like the arrangement, he’s free to not participate.
Also, the insurance requirement is standard and is not really relevant to the questions raised.
-
I wouldn't really argue over who's right. More like the CFI isn't comfortable with that arrangement, and that should be good enough to end the debate for me. We as pilots are ingrained early on that if you don't feel comfortable, for whatever reason, you don't make the flight. And with the finger pointing, litigation happy world we live in, I wouldn't want to be a CFI instructing in an FBO plane you aren't familiar with and don't have a working relationship with. Something goes wrong, the CFI's ass is the one on the line.
The FAA would see it that way no matter who you agreed was “PIC”. Or maybe both would be on the line but the CFI has the higher ratings and it is admittedly an instructional flight. He’d be held the more responsible.
-
thread drift:
It's been a long time since I've rented at an FBO. Is the 90 day currency thing common? SMH
-
The FAA would see it that way no matter who you agreed was “PIC”. Or maybe both would be on the line but the CFI has the higher ratings and it is admittedly an instructional flight. He’d be held the more responsible.
In fact, if John goes under the foggles in VMC or they encounter IMC then the CFI automatically becomes legal PIC, even if he never manipulates the controls, and can log it, if I understand my PIC-logging vs PIC-legal correctly. Assuming the CFI is instrument rated and John is not.
John can also log the instrument time because he was on the controls, but lacking an AI rating, he cannot remain legal PIC while under the hood or in IMC.
-
John needs to buy his own airplane.
Let me guess, a Bonanza? ;D
-
thread drift:
It's been a long time since I've rented at an FBO. Is the 90 day currency thing common? SMH
Yes it is. And it makes sense to me. I’m sure it’s an insurance requirement, but there is a practical aspect to it. You don’t want people renting your expensive equipment if they don’t have a minimal level of currency in it. 60 days may be unreasonable. 90 days is not in my opinion.
-
Let me guess, a Bonanza? ;D
Only if he's a Doctor.
-
Only if he's a Doctor.
That’s what I was going to say.