Post by: nddons on November 12, 2022, 11:18:31 PM
Dear members and supporters of the Commemorative Air Force (CAF),
I wanted to share with you the news of a tragic accident that happened earlier today. On Saturday, Nov 12, at approximately 1:20 p.m. CST, two CAF aircraft were involved in a mid-air collision at Dallas Executive Airport during the CAF’s Wings Over Dallas WWII Airshow.
The aircraft involved were our B-17 Flying Fortress Texas Raiders N7227C and our P-63 Kingcobra N6763, both based out of the Houston area.
The B-17 operates with a flight crew of 4-5 individuals, and the P-63 operates with a single crew member. At this time, we are not able to provide the identity or any personal information about the aircrew involved.
The Commemorative Air Force is working closely with local and national authorities who are investigating this accident. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will conduct a thorough investigation into the cause of the accident. Currently, no additional information is available.
We will continue to share information with you as we are able. It is always difficult to share news like this, however you are part of our aviation family. It is important that we support one another in times like this.
Hank Coates
President/CEO
Copyright
*2022 Commemorative Air Force, All rights reserved.Our mailing address is:
CAF HEADQUARTERS
P.O. BOX 764769 Dallas, TX 75376
Want to change how you receive these emails?
You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list.
Post by: nddons on November 12, 2022, 11:22:04 PM
One of my friends flies for Tora Tora Tora. The pilot of the P-63 was also a Tora pilot. My friend also knew the crew of the B-17 “Texas Rangers” from the Gulf Coast wing of the CAF.
Post by: Anthony on November 13, 2022, 02:38:19 AM
Post by: Rush on November 13, 2022, 03:21:22 AM
Post by: Username on November 13, 2022, 10:10:25 AM
Post by: nddons on November 15, 2022, 11:44:11 AM
https://youtu.be/C342dfNPCyg
Post by: nddons on December 02, 2022, 08:54:37 PM
This is a good post-NTSB report analysis:
https://youtu.be/IRVqg-pCb6o
Post by: Rush on December 03, 2022, 04:38:28 AM
The preliminary NTSB report is out. The Air Boss is toast. This was on him, and in turn, the CAF organization.
This is a good post-NTSB report analysis:
https://youtu.be/IRVqg-pCb6o
Yep. I would hate to be him right now.
Post by: nddons on December 05, 2022, 06:47:10 AM
Post by: Username on December 05, 2022, 01:51:37 PM
I've been a member of several local EAA chapters that range from an excuse for old farts to drink to something really real.
Post by: nddons on December 05, 2022, 03:25:46 PM
I'm a member of CAF mostly because I support their mission of restoring and flying warbirds. But I'm not a member of any Wing. I'm not aware of anything strange going on in HQ but I'm also not really looking. Would you be willing to share what you know?Hmmm, let me think about this. I don’t want to publicly air some things.
I've been a member of several local EAA chapters that range from an excuse for old farts to drink to something really real.
I believed in their mission as well. I was Maintenance Officer for 4 years, Wing Leader for 2 years, and Chairman of the Gathering of Warbirds airshow for 3 shows, raising over $90,000 for the wing for support of the CAF aircraft assigned to our wing - a 1943 Fairchild PT-26, and 1943 North American SNJ-4, and a 195? Beechcraft T-34. I’m a pilot sponsor of the PT-26, and a sponsor of the SNJ.
I’m proud to have 108.3 hours in this beautiful PT-26 Cornell. This is a picture from a plane spotter of me landing at OSH in 2017.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221205/63412c3a855c60f0ea62c9a9bcb1773d.jpg)
This plane hasn’t flown in 18 months due to Mx issues screwed up by the current wing leader. Just a symptom of many current leadership and financial problems.
Post by: Rush on December 05, 2022, 03:31:50 PM
Post by: nddons on December 05, 2022, 03:46:36 PM
I had a chance to ride in a warbird and decided to go with Phil Knight in his Extra instead. Not sure if I'm sad or glad. Probably both.At our home airport of Waukesha (KUES) we have a lot of warbirds. Off the top of my head:
-Fairchild PT-26 Cornell
-North American Aviation SNJ-4
-Two North American Aviation T-6G
-North American Aviation South African T-6
-Canadian Car and Foundry Harvard (Canadian T-6)
-North American T-28 Trojan
-Two Beechcraft T-34 Mentor
-Three Stearman (I don’t want to live in a world where Stearman pops up as a misspelling)
-Two deHavilland Chupmunk
-Lockheed T-33 T-Bird
-North American F-86 Sabre
-L-39
-North American P-51 Mustang (bow gone because the owner died of pancreatic cancer)
-Ryan L-17 (Navion) (Mine)
-US Army TH-55A Osage helicopter
I’d ride with almost every one of these guys.
Post by: Rush on December 05, 2022, 05:46:19 PM
At our home airport of Waukesha (KUES) we have a lot of warbirds. Off the top of my head:
-Fairchild PT-26 Cornell
-North American Aviation SNJ-4
-Two North American Aviation T-6G
-North American Aviation South African T-6
-Canadian Car and Foundry Harvard (Canadian T-6)
-North American T-28 Trojan
-Two Beechcraft T-34 Mentor
-Three Stearman (I don’t want to live in a world where Stearman pops up as a misspelling)
-Two deHavilland Chupmunk
-Lockheed T-33 T-Bird
-North American F-86 Sabre
-L-39
-North American P-51 Mustang (bow gone because the owner died of pancreatic cancer)
-Ryan L-17 (Navion) (Mine)
-US Army TH-55A Osage helicopter
I’d ride with almost every one of these guys.
It was a T-6 if I recall. I might have a picture of it somewhere unless it got destroyed in the flood.
Post by: nddons on December 05, 2022, 06:05:20 PM
It was a T-6 if I recall. I might have a picture of it somewhere unless it got destroyed in the flood.T-6s are as close as you’ll get (unless you want to pay a few thousand dollars) to flying a fighter. They are big, heavy, and a real man’s airplane. Fully aerobatic, but most pilots do “gentlemen’s aerobatics.” Loops, barrel rolls, etc.
I think you will love it! They are a little tricky getting in the back seat. You have to step from the wing up to a little 2”x3” metal tab sticking out of the fuselage, and then step onto the seat. Best wait until you’re 100% with your hip!
Post by: nddons on September 06, 2023, 09:37:05 AM
It’s tough to get out of my mind a picture of the co-pilot with his arm out the right side, sustaining high negative G’s as his head hit the roof of the B-17 after the collision and before the crash.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12475655/wife-dead-pilot-len-root-sues-texas-airshow-crash.html
I have some doubts about the CAF keeping their insurance company after this.
Post by: jb1842 on September 06, 2023, 10:00:07 AM
Post by: nddons on September 06, 2023, 10:17:05 AM
Will the CAF cease to exist after these lawsuits and they can't get insurance?It’s tough to say. I was the Wisconsin Wing Leader when the Collings Foundation B-17 crash happened in October 2019. At the following spring’s “Wing Staff Conference” in Dallas, we were told that the warbird operator industry is at serious risk for its continued ability to operate and give rides. However, the CAF still kept their insurance.
Post by: Rush on September 06, 2023, 10:25:40 AM
It’s tough to get out of my mind a picture of the co-pilot with his arm out the right side, sustaining high negative G’s as his head hit the roof of the B-17 after the collision and before the crash.
Dang, if you zoom in to that picture that sure is what you see. :(
Post by: jb1842 on September 06, 2023, 10:26:26 AM
It’s tough to say. I was the Wisconsin Wing Leader when the Collings Foundation B-17 crash happened in October 2019. At the following spring’s “Wing Staff Conference” in Dallas, we were told that the warbird operator industry is at serious risk for its continued ability to operate and give rides. However, the CAF still kept their insurance.
Besides people dying, isn't it hard to compare these incidents? One was shit maintenance, the other was straight up the air boss screwed the pooch. Both human error, but not on the same level.
Post by: nddons on September 06, 2023, 11:55:53 AM
Besides people dying, isn't it hard to compare these incidents? One was shit maintenance, the other was straight up the air boss screwed the pooch. Both human error, but not on the same level.The probable cause of the Collings Foundation crash was the pilot’s failure to properly manage the airplane’s configuration and airspeed following a loss of engine power, according to the final report of the NTSB. So Mx was a proximal cause of the failure, but they found pilot error nonetheless.
But the NTSB also critiqued the FAA for failure to properly oversee the “Living History Flight Experience” (LHFE) which is an FAA-approved exemption for the prohibition to sell flights to the general public in limited or experimental category aircraft, including former military or historically-significant aircraft.
So if you’re not a CAF member but you buy a ride for a flight in, say, a T-6 or a B-17, something like $70 or so of the fee goes to a “membership” in the CAF. If you’re a “member,” you’re not just the general public. Get it? /wink/
The Collings Foundation had such an exemption, which was revoked by the FAA.
So the whole LHFE is a workaround, and is causing the FAA to re-examine it.
Now the Dallas crash didn’t involve the carriage of pax, but there could be some pilot blame in there once the NTSB issues their final ruling.
I say that because no pilot raised an objection regarding safety during the briefing with the Air Boss. I asked two of my friends who were career USAF pilots and fly in numerous airshows, and they say no one usually says anything during the briefing with the Air Boss, but AFTER the briefing you have a separate briefing with your element (I.e., T-6s, jet warbirds, etc.) where you sort out potential conflict ions or problems on your own.
Seems like someone should have broken protocol and challenged the Air Boss.
Post by: Anthony on September 07, 2023, 02:21:41 AM
Post by: Rush on September 07, 2023, 03:36:07 AM
I think the days of warbird rides or maybe even them flying at all I'm an organized manner are numbered.
I hope that’s not true but it probably is. You can’t have people having too much fun doing risky stuff.
Post by: Anthony on September 07, 2023, 04:37:56 AM
I hope that’s not true but it probably is. You can’t have people having too much fun doing risky stuff.
As a nation and probably world, we have become so risk adversed and total safety obsessed. And you're right, Rush, it is due to the rise of the power of WOMEN in our society that has made it this way. It is to the detriment of society, progress in general, and death of the adventurous spirt, etc.
Post by: President-Elect Bob Noel on September 07, 2023, 04:53:25 AM
case in point: the fixation some people had with wearing masks, regardless of the efficacy of the masks.
Post by: Rush on September 07, 2023, 05:21:36 AM
As a nation and probably world, we have become so risk adversed and total safety obsessed. And you're right, Rush, it is due to the rise of the power of WOMEN in our society that has made it this way. It is to the detriment of society, progress in general, and death of the adventurous spirt, etc.
Women in positions of power over men such as in insurance company management and FAA bureaucrats.
But also the human tendency to overblow the significance of rare disasters and dismiss the significance of common ones such as car crashes. Another example is the very rare “mass shooter” vs the very common inner city gang shooting which are hundreds of times more deadly. Although in that case they get around it by redefining “mass shooting” so as to include gang warfare thereby falsely jacking up the numbers. This makes the public falsely believe all these shootings are done with “assault rifles” when in reality they’re all (the gang ones) done with handguns.