PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on December 31, 2022, 04:26:50 AM
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For those of you who’ve abandoned Trump, would you like to rethink it? This is a long read but worth it. I disagree with some of it but overall he makes a lot of sense. DeSantis would be a “return to normal”. Meaning, normal establishment Republican.
https://paulingrassia.substack.com/p/ron-desanctimonious-or-the-real-deal?utm_source=twitter&sd=pf
Here is the soul of the difference although there are many more important issues at play:
Even on something as ostensibly anodyne as the left’s war on plastic straws, in which DeSantis yet again sided with liberals in vetoing local prohibitions on paper straw bans, [sic, he means plastic] matters a lot in our day and age when every public act carries political import. At a bare minimum, especially when contrasted with Trump’s totally off-the-cuff (and deeply relatable) anti-plastic straw ban remarks in a political speech, it demonstrates DeSantis’s inability to connect with the American people in a way that only Donald Trump can. The war on plastic straws (and DeSantis’s corresponding failure to take the right stance on this issue), though maybe trivial from the perspective of a DC consultant, means everything to normal Americans.
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This will come as no surprise to you, but I think that was a bunch of bull. His tactic was to throw so muich shit against the wall that it would take anyone with a life too long to rip it apart piece by piece. He has almost no facts, just opinions. And I disagree with almost all of his opinions.
I haven't abandoned Trump's ideals. I just think Trump has crumbled under the left's unremitting assault on everything associated with him. Trying to defend himself from the left is a thousand times worse than rebutting that article you posted, and that article was too much for me to rebut. I think DeSantis has a stronger mental constitution than Trump. See, that's how opinions work. You can opine on anything you want if nobody can prove you wrong.
As for Disney, DeSantis brought Disney's Chapek's woke bullshit to its knees. Trump would have tried the same thing and would have wound up getting almost everyone else on THEIR side.
Even with all of that, I might still vote for Trump if I thought he had a prayer's chance in hell of winning, and if he wasn't so old and showing it. He would be 83 at the end of his term. I don't think he will live that long based on my assumption of how hostile and relentless his opposition is going to be.
If Trump runs again, the Republican party will go down in the biggest thrashing in American political history. And I don't even want to think about what would happen if he runs as a third party candidate.
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If Trump runs again, the Republican party will go down in the biggest thrashing in American political history. And I don't even want to think about what would happen if he runs as a third party candidate.
Whoever runs against the democrats in 2024 presidential election is going to lose, period. The election has already been decided.
The republicans have done nothing to challenge the unconstitutional means that some battleground states have enshrined into voting laws. State legislatures have been usurped by governors, secretaries of state and even state judges to tear apart voting laws and allow mass ballots to be sent out, no chain of custody, no signature validation, etc.
This should have been the republicans number one priority back in 2020 after that election debacle. After 2022 we had republicans saying "Gee, what happened?" Well duh!
We are watching Arizona being stolen right in front of us, and the republicans aren't fighting. The democrat communist now have their pathway to control the executive and the senate. 2024 they will take back the house as well.
Wake up folks.
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This will come as no surprise to you, but I think that was a bunch of bull. His tactic was to throw so muich shit against the wall that it would take anyone with a life too long to rip it apart piece by piece. He has almost no facts, just opinions. And I disagree with almost all of his opinions.
I haven't abandoned Trump's ideals. I just think Trump has crumbled under the left's unremitting assault on everything associated with him. Trying to defend himself from the left is a thousand times worse than rebutting that article you posted, and that article was too much for me to rebut. I think DeSantis has a stronger mental constitution than Trump. See, that's how opinions work. You can opine on anything you want if nobody can prove you wrong.
As for Disney, DeSantis brought Disney's Chapek's woke bullshit to its knees. Trump would have tried the same thing and would have wound up getting almost everyone else on THEIR side.
Even with all of that, I might still vote for Trump if I thought he had a prayer's chance in hell of winning, and if he wasn't so old and showing it. He would be 83 at the end of his term. I don't think he will live that long based on my assumption of how hostile and relentless his opposition is going to be.
If Trump runs again, the Republican party will go down in the biggest thrashing in American political history. And I don't even want to think about what would happen if he runs as a third party candidate.
I agree with all of this. When he complained about DeSantis’ $300k net worth vs Trump’s billions, I knew this was a shallow sycophant’s article, and not a fact finding article.
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For those of you who’ve abandoned Trump, would you like to rethink it? This is a long read but worth it. I disagree with some of it but overall he makes a lot of sense. DeSantis would be a “return to normal”. Meaning, normal establishment Republican.
https://paulingrassia.substack.com/p/ron-desanctimonious-or-the-real-deal?utm_source=twitter&sd=pf
Here is the soul of the difference although there are many more important issues at play:
I don’t do hero worship. I’m a principled pragmatist.
If by “return to normal” you mean having any chance of winning another presidential election, then yes, I’m guilty of a desire to return to normal. To think Trump could get any more of 1/3 of a general election vote is delusional.
This article is so full of guilt by association it may as well have been written by a democrat. Who is this Paul Degrassia? The Pulitzer-willing Paul Degrassia died in 2019.
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There is no good alternative to Trump except another billionaire conservative who would wish to subject himself and his family and his businesses to the lies and vitriol of the left.
No other seriously patriotic conservative likely would do that. We’re at the point where a true leader to take us out of this downward spiral will have to be outside the swamp, completely.
Plus, we have to stop talking about whether Trump could win or not. Elections mean nothing until we ALL get off our backsides and start spending much of our time investigating our local elections and pressing relentlessly for our states to end mail-in voting.
It’s my belief (hope?) that if what some of you are discussing regarding people waking up actually happens, the biggest reveal will be that the left’s attacks on Trump really are attacks on America and Americans.
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It’s my belief (hope?) that if what some of you are discussing regarding people waking up actually happens, the biggest reveal will be that the left’s attacks on Trump really are attacks on America and Americans.
Precisely.
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There is no good alternative to Trump except another billionaire conservative who would wish to subject himself and his family and his businesses to the lies and vitriol of the left.
No other seriously patriotic conservative likely would do that. We’re at the point where a true leader to take us out of this downward spiral will have to be outside the swamp, completely.
Plus, we have to stop talking about whether Trump could win or not. Elections mean nothing until we ALL get off our backsides and start spending much of our time investigating our local elections and pressing relentlessly for our states to end mail-in voting.
It’s my belief (hope?) that if what some of you are discussing regarding people waking up actually happens, the biggest reveal will be that the left’s attacks on Trump really are attacks on America and Americans.
It’s delusional NOT to question whether Trump could win or not. In fact, that’s the FIRST question we need to ask. We can ride his horse straight to an electoral massacre, or we can focus on someone who can win hearts and minds of most people.
Like it or not, election “season” is here to stay. Republicans can either wish it would go away, or learn to play the same game.
See my redstate article above for our options:
With the red trickle behind us and the 2024 general election less than two years away, Republican voters will be faced with three options, like it, or not. The option a majority of GOP voters choose will be pivotal in both congressional elections and the election of the next president of the United States, as well.
Those options are:
Continue to focus on election day only, which historically determined the outcome of all elections.
Continue to whine about “massive fraud” and “stolen” elections as the reason your candidate(s) lost.
Realize that election day has given way to election season, and a substantial increase in early voting.
The correct option is #3, of course, whether we like that, or not. Republicans can continue to claim voter fraud and rigged elections until the proverbial cows come home. But the reality remains, as we’ve seen countless times, claiming massive fraud and proving massive fraud are entirely different propositions.
And here’s an extra tip, free of charge: If you hate the explosion of early voting — you shouldn’t — and the growing number of mail-in ballots, you must win a majority of seats in a majority of state legislatures before you can change anything about it. Otherwise, you remain stuck with option #2.
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There is no winning seats when the other side controls the ballots.
It’s all about ballots. Period. Until the republicans unite a ground force to go in each state, demand voter rolls be cleaned up and maintained, thus pulling the teeth from the democrat ballot dumps, then and only then can we start seeing the will of the people expressed via voting.
The silence of the republicans with regards to Arizona right now is frightening.
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Whoever runs against the democrats in 2024 presidential election is going to lose, period. The election has already been decided.
The republicans have done nothing to challenge the unconstitutional means that some battleground states have enshrined into voting laws. State legislatures have been usurped by governors, secretaries of state and even state judges to tear apart voting laws and allow mass ballots to be sent out, no chain of custody, no signature validation, etc.
This should have been the republicans number one priority back in 2020 after that election debacle. After 2022 we had republicans saying "Gee, what happened?" Well duh!
We are watching Arizona being stolen right in front of us, and the republicans aren't fighting. The democrat communist now have their pathway to control the executive and the senate. 2024 they will take back the house as well.
Wake up folks.
Spot fucking on!
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The author of that piece seems to think DeSantis's reluctance to embrace more government surveillance state on its own citizens via e-verify in search of some way to curb illegal immigration makes him bad:
These recent accomplishments, however, belie a much darker reality about DeSantis’s own record[...]
Starting with e-verify: while Florida has some version of the laws that require mandatory background checks of resident aliens to determine employability, DeSantis has slow-walked meaningful legislation of the kind long ago passed in states like Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi (and others) that would require mandatory e-verification for all or most businesses, not just public contractors. One former Florida state legislator described his state’s toothless e-verify laws as an “embarrassment to the state,” and called on DeSantis to encourage his Republican colleagues in the state legislature to join him in making the “law mandatory for all private and public employers when it was considered by the Legislature in 2020.”
As a libertarian I say there should be no solutions that dictate an infringement of rights (such as privacy) in pursuit of a government duty. There are other ways, but because they are slower the impatient prefer the magic of government dictate. We've already got a mountain of government dictates for the "common good". Any reluctance by DeSantis on this score is good, not bad. The Martha's Vineyard saga unequivocally shows DeSantis position on illegal immigration. If he is indeed reluctant to embrace e-verify it means he isn't keen to grow government as a solution to problem.
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If Trump runs again, the Republican party will go down in the biggest thrashing in American political history. And I don't even want to think about what would happen if he runs as a third party candidate.
If Trump runs as a third party candidate it's 1992 all over again. Just like Perot, he would divide the Republican vote ensuring a Democrat landslide.
As much as I would like a 2nd Trump term, DeSantis is probably our best hope.
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If Trump runs as a third party candidate it's 1992 all over again. Just like Perot, he would divide the Republican vote ensuring a Democrat landslide.
As much as I would like a 2nd Trump term, DeSantis is probably our best hope.
100% correct. And he’ll get the same number of electoral votes as Perot as well.
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The author of that piece seems to think DeSantis's reluctance to embrace more government surveillance state on its own citizens via e-verify in search of some way to curb illegal immigration makes him bad:
As a libertarian I say there should be no solutions that dictate an infringement of rights (such as privacy) in pursuit of a government duty. There are other ways, but because they are slower the impatient prefer the magic of government dictate. We've already got a mountain of government dictates for the "common good". Any reluctance by DeSantis on this score is good, not bad. The Martha's Vineyard saga unequivocally shows DeSantis position on illegal immigration. If he is indeed reluctant to embrace e-verify it means he isn't keen to grow government as a solution to problem.
Yes that was one of the things I took issue with.
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100% correct. And he’ll get the same number of electoral votes as Perot as well.
Absolutely I agree he can't run third party. That would guarantee the Dems win, if it isn't already guaranteed through our screwed up elections caused by ballot tampering and universal mail in caused by covid caused by Fauci who funded the Chinese GoF. That one man kick started the whole election transformation. Although I will say the harvesting and fraud was already happening anyway just on a much smaller scale. And now we know about it.
The most frightening thing of all is that NOW WE KNOW ABOUT IT and the GOP is doing nothing to stop it, and judges are ruling against outright evidence of it. The cheaters are arrogantly thumbing their noses at us while they ramp up the cheating even more. Now, right in the open.
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I don’t do hero worship. I’m a principled pragmatist.
If by “return to normal” you mean having any chance of winning another presidential election, then yes, I’m guilty of a desire to return to normal. To think Trump could get any more of 1/3 of a general election vote is delusional.
This article is so full of guilt by association it may as well have been written by a democrat. Who is this Paul Degrassia? The Pulitzer-willing Paul Degrassia died in 2019.
By "return to normal" I mean return to the Uniparty. It's a swamp, dragging us ever closer to totalitarianism RINO rhetorical protestations notwithstanding.
If you think DeSantis has a better chance of winning, maybe it's because he's more likely to become swampy and the Dems know it. Yes his net worth has a LOT to do with it. Trump is un-bribe-able. There is no one else positioned like that who has proven to be on our side. Maybe Elon Musk but he's FAR from what Trump is and not eligible to run anyway.
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The most frightening thing of all is that NOW WE KNOW ABOUT IT and the GOP is doing nothing to stop it, and judges are ruling against outright evidence of it. The cheaters are arrogantly thumbing their noses at us while they ramp up the cheating even more. Now, right in the open.
This is exactly why I'm so pessimistic.
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This is exactly why I'm so pessimistic.
Me too, that they can be so blatant about it and nobody tries to stop them. Well some are trying like Kari Lake but we need many more.
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Me too, that they can be so blatant about it and nobody tries to stop them. Well some are trying like Kari Lake but we need many more.
Kari Lake is receiving no help or support from the GOP or RNC. And in 2020 the RNC fund raised on the election debacle then went silent, and none of the millions raised went to fight for election integrity.
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Kari Lake is receiving no help or support from the GOP or RNC. And in 2020 the RNC fund raised on the election debacle then went silent, and none of the millions raised went to fight for election integrity.
All bought and paid for. A bunch of sell outs that don't care about us nor our country. Rights, Freedom and Liberty for US are meaningless to them. They just want it for themselves plus the wealth they attain through their corruption.
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By "return to normal" I mean return to the Uniparty. It's a swamp, dragging us ever closer to totalitarianism RINO rhetorical protestations notwithstanding.
If you think DeSantis has a better chance of winning, maybe it's because he's more likely to become swampy and the Dems know it. Yes his net worth has a LOT to do with it. Trump is un-bribe-able. There is no one else positioned like that who has proven to be on our side. Maybe Elon Musk but he's FAR from what Trump is and not eligible to run anyway.
But at the end of the day, being able to win a general election means literally everything. Do you really think Trump can win a general election? He’s more damaged now than he was in November 2020. Right or wrong, it is what it is. I wouldn’t put $1 on a bet that Trump can get a fraction of the votes he got in 2020. “Abandoning” (your term) Trump doesn’t mean not appreciating that he was the most conservative president in my lifetime. It means I believe with every bone in my body that he will never get more than the GOP base, or 1/3rd of the electorate. That’s not enough, so I can’t back his candidacy.
DeSantis appears to be the most Trump-like candidate out there. He’s not perfect, but no politician is. But DeSantis has helped turn Florida from purple to red. He got 500,000+ more votes in 2022 than he did in 2018, and won with 60% of the vote. He is appealing to a lot of Floridians, with good reason.
I’m not buying into Lucifer’s pessimism that the GOP will never win another presidency. I think that’s defeatist, and I don’t counter quitters. I’ll quit when I’m dead, but not before.
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But at the end of the day, being able to win a general election means literally everything. Do you really think Trump can win a general election? He’s more damaged now than he was in November 2020. Right or wrong, it is what it is. I wouldn’t put $1 on a bet that Trump can get a fraction of the votes he got in 2020. “Abandoning” (your term) Trump doesn’t mean not appreciating that he was the most conservative president in my lifetime. It means I believe with every bone in my body that he will never get more than the GOP base, or 1/3rd of the electorate. That’s not enough, so I can’t back his candidacy.
DeSantis appears to be the most Trump-like candidate out there. He’s not perfect, but no politician is. But DeSantis has helped turn Florida from purple to red. He got 500,000+ more votes in 2022 than he did in 2018, and won with 60% of the vote. He is appealing to a lot of Floridians, with good reason.
I’m not buying into Lucifer’s pessimism that the GOP will never win another presidency. I think that’s defeatist, and I don’t counter quitters. I’ll quit when I’m dead, but not before.
I'm 100% with you there Stan.
I still like Trump. I just don't think he stands a chance to win any election any more. That's why Democrats brilliantly voted for Trump backed candidates in the Republican primaries. They knew they wouldn't win the general. If we can't figure that out, then we are as doomed as some here believe.
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Do you guys really think voters will CHOOSE the senile imposter and his whore rather than pull the lever for Trump?
If you do, it's only because you have been managed by the fucking press.
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Do you guys really think voters will CHOOSE the senile imposter and his whore rather than pull the lever for Trump?
If you do, it's only because you have been managed by the fucking press.
Biden won't be the nominee. Newsome will.
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Do you guys really think voters will CHOOSE the senile imposter and his whore rather than pull the lever for Trump?
If you do, it's only because you have been managed by the fucking press.
Do you really think the voters are actually influencing the outcome of elections?
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Biden won't be the nominee. Newsome will.
the fucking press is still manipulating republicans with their Trump Can't Win bullshit.
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Do you guys really think voters will CHOOSE the senile imposter and his whore rather than pull the lever for Trump?
Yes.
If you do, it's only because you have been managed by the fucking press.
No. It is because so many voters have been managed by the FP. I just consider myself the messenger in this instance.
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Biden won't be the nominee.
I agree. Neither will Kamala.
Newsome will.
That's a distinct and frightening possibility. But I don't think it will happen, although I have no idea on who they will run. It could even be AOC, but I think she will self destruct by then.
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Maybe, just maybe we let the election play out and see what happens. I mean we're all such experts.
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I wouldn’t put $1 on a bet that Trump can get a fraction of the votes he got in 2020.
Speaking of betting, here's the latest line on presidential odds (includes odds on some sort of sportsball event):
https://www.electionbettingodds.com/ (https://www.electionbettingodds.com/)
Trump now trails Biden by a fair margin.
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Maybe, just maybe we let the election play out and see what happens. I mean we're all such experts.
I liked and understand that feeling, but if we were to do that, then we might as well close down most forums like this one.
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But at the end of the day, being able to win a general election means literally everything. Do you really think Trump can win a general election? He’s more damaged now than he was in November 2020. Right or wrong, it is what it is. I wouldn’t put $1 on a bet that Trump can get a fraction of the votes he got in 2020. “Abandoning” (your term) Trump doesn’t mean not appreciating that he was the most conservative president in my lifetime. It means I believe with every bone in my body that he will never get more than the GOP base, or 1/3rd of the electorate. That’s not enough, so I can’t back his candidacy.
DeSantis appears to be the most Trump-like candidate out there. He’s not perfect, but no politician is. But DeSantis has helped turn Florida from purple to red. He got 500,000+ more votes in 2022 than he did in 2018, and won with 60% of the vote. He is appealing to a lot of Floridians, with good reason.
I’m not buying into Lucifer’s pessimism that the GOP will never win another presidency. I think that’s defeatist, and I don’t counter quitters. I’ll quit when I’m dead, but not before.
I agree that we can't give up and quit. But I had said before the midterms that I was comparing Styx's optimism to Lucifer's pessimism and would see how the midterms turned out before deciding whether we were still in horrible election trouble. Luci mostly won. We SHOULD by all rights have had a huge red wave. However, election fraud was only a part of the problem, Mitch McConnell's betrayal of MAGA candidates was also big. Styx didn't see that coming, neither did he predict Arizona's insane election cheating. And I believe the RvW reversal had a bigger effect than Styx predicted. I was hoping it wouldn't, but I underestimated the younger generation's interest in keeping abortion legal. Normally young people don't turn out as much but Dobbs PLUS media propaganda about handmaiden nonsense brought them out.
The Democrats are overt enemies, but the GOP and conservatives contributed as much or more to the red wave being only a trickle. SCOTUS should have sat on that ruling til after the midterms and the establisment RINOs did everything they could to block MAGA backed candidates, even preferring to lose to the Dems. And conservatives are backlashing and over reacting way too much to provocation from the left, shooting themselves in the foot. Proposing legislation to ban abortion at the Federal level for example. Enacting a law that you MUST use the bathroom of your birth gender (making it a crime for me to use the men's room when the lady's is occupied and I'm about to wet my pants.) Not to absolve the left from doing the same thing, requiring you to allow "self identify" to use any bathroom. Neither should be LAW and wasn't until both these sides radicalized themselves in offense of each other.
Bottom line, the country has split into two irreconcilable sides and both are to blame for keeping the corrupt Uniparty in power. I fear it's too late to fix, but agree we cannot give up.
As for winning the general election, I don't agree that DeSantis has a better chance than Trump. The polls today are meaningless, and the Dems have two years to continue contaminating the elections so to make sure the R loses no matter who it is. They already started by adding that election thing in the Omnibus bill which has removed the last obstacle to a stolen election: the option not to certify an illegitimate result.
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Do you guys really think voters will CHOOSE the senile imposter and his whore rather than pull the lever for Trump?
If you do, it's only because you have been managed by the fucking press.
Do you really think independents and moderates will pull the lever for Trump? If so then you’re delusional.
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But at the end of the day, being able to win a general election means literally everything. Do you really think Trump can win a general election? He’s more damaged now than he was in November 2020. Right or wrong, it is what it is. I wouldn’t put $1 on a bet that Trump can get a fraction of the votes he got in 2020. “Abandoning” (your term) Trump doesn’t mean not appreciating that he was the most conservative president in my lifetime. It means I believe with every bone in my body that he will never get more than the GOP base, or 1/3rd of the electorate. That’s not enough, so I can’t back his candidacy.
DeSantis appears to be the most Trump-like candidate out there. He’s not perfect, but no politician is. But DeSantis has helped turn Florida from purple to red. He got 500,000+ more votes in 2022 than he did in 2018, and won with 60% of the vote. He is appealing to a lot of Floridians, with good reason.
I’m not buying into Lucifer’s pessimism that the GOP will never win another presidency. I think that’s defeatist, and I don’t counter quitters. I’ll quit when I’m dead, but not before.
DeSantis won Florida by the margins for one simple fact: He got ahead (as Governor) and got Florida's election process under control. Fact.
Had he done like most of the rest of the GOP (which was nothing) he wouldn’t be governor right now.
So, for sake of argument, how does DeSantis do this in PA, GA, AZ, MI and a few other states? He will need those states to win. How does he in 24 months go in, make the legislatures act responsible, get the Gov’s and SOS and state judges to back down and those legislatures to follow the actual laws?
How does he prevent the tidal wave of ballot dumping?
24 months isn’t enough time. The GOP and RNC needed to fight this battle in 2020. So far, nothing.
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Maybe, just maybe we let the election play out and see what happens. I mean we're all such experts.
I don't think there's anything wrong with speculating and creating discussion. After all this is a discussion forum. ;D
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That's why Democrats brilliantly voted for Trump backed candidates in the Republican primaries. They knew they wouldn't win the general. If we can't figure that out, then we are as doomed as some here believe.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-candidates-endorsed-by-trump-performed-in-the-midterm-elections-11668031281
When it comes to general-election candidates endorsed by Trump, the former president’s win rate is relatively high: at least 68% on the Senate side, with four races yet to be decided, and at least 87% on the House side, with 12 outstanding races.
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the fucking press is still manipulating republicans with their Trump Can't Win bullshit.
And some Republicans are manipulated by one man to think that a severely damaged 78-year old candidate is the only one who can be elected president.
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(https://i.imgur.com/UNLeHLZ.jpg)
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Do you really think independents and moderates will pull the lever for Trump? If so then you’re delusional.
With the treasonous pedophile and whore as alternatives?
I doubt it very much.