PILOT SPIN
Spin Zone => Spin Zone => Topic started by: Rush on January 13, 2023, 12:40:58 PM
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How does this sentence make sense?
The ONS also found that there have been more deaths due to COVID-19 than flu in every year since 1929. They noted that 73,766 deaths in 2020 were due to COVID-19, and 67,258 in 2021, while there were 73,212 deaths due to flu in 1929.
You just said there have been more Covid deaths than flu deaths every year since 1929 and in the same sentence you said there were 67,258 Covid deaths in 2021 as opposed to 73,212 flu deaths in 1929.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-deaths-have-outpaced-deaths-from-pneumonia-and-flu#COVID-19,-pneumonia,-and-flu
And another thing:
“Perhaps a better way of comprehending the impact of COVID-19 is to look at total excess deaths,” noted Dr. Cutler, “These are the number of deaths over and above the number anticipated by historical averages. During the past 2 years, the World Health Organization puts this number at 15 million.”
“This is in contrast to the 6 million worldwide deaths currently attributed by individual countries to COVID-19. But even these large numbers do not give a full picture of the impact of COVID-19 and why we need to all take action to reduce the number of infections, serious illnesses as well as deaths,” he added.
So if there are 15 million excess deaths and only 6 million of those are Covid, what caused the other 9 million excess deaths? Might it have been lockdowns? Suicide? Other diseases from a weakened immune system? Riots and rising crime? Fearmongering keeping people from going to the ER when they have chest pain? So why are you saying we need to “take action to reduce the number of infections”? I’m sure you mean more lockdowns, masking and vaccines. But…. Logic implies those are the very things causing the 9 million extra deaths.
Think about it. The number of excess deaths not due to Covid is 33% again greater than the number of deaths caused by Covid itself. Seems pretty clear the cure is worse than the disease.
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How does this sentence make sense?
The ONS also found that there have been more deaths due to COVID-19 than flu in every year since 1929. They noted that 73,766 deaths in 2020 were due to COVID-19, and 67,258 in 2021, while there were 73,212 deaths due to flu in 1929.
You just said there have been more Covid deaths than flu deaths every year since 1929 and in the same sentence you said there were 67,258 Covid deaths in 2021 as opposed to 73,212 flu deaths in 1929.
Maybe they meant after 1929.... as in from 1930 on.
And another thing:
“Perhaps a better way of comprehending the impact of COVID-19 is to look at total excess deaths,” noted Dr. Cutler, “These are the number of deaths over and above the number anticipated by historical averages. During the past 2 years, the World Health Organization puts this number at 15 million.”
“This is in contrast to the 6 million worldwide deaths currently attributed by individual countries to COVID-19. But even these large numbers do not give a full picture of the impact of COVID-19 and why we need to all take action to reduce the number of infections, serious illnesses as well as deaths,” he added.
So if there are 15 million excess deaths and only 6 million of those are Covid, what caused the other 9 million excess deaths? Might it have been lockdowns? Suicide? Other diseases from a weakened immune system? Riots and rising crime? Fearmongering keeping people from going to the ER when they have chest pain? So why are you saying we need to “take action to reduce the number of infections”? I’m sure you mean more lockdowns, masking and vaccines. But…. Logic implies those are the very things causing the 9 million extra deaths.
Think about it. The number of excess deaths not due to Covid is 33% again greater than the number of deaths caused by Covid itself. Seems pretty clear the cure is worse than the disease.
Some will claim that there are deaths that haven't been counted as a covid death because there weren't enough test kits available (especially early in the pandemic). (for now, let's ignore the deliberate over-counting of covid deaths).
So, if one ASSUMES that all excess deaths can be attributed to covid (of course that is an unsubstantiated claim), than all those "excess" deaths are blamed on covid in one way or another.
edit: Some will probably claim that the covid death toll would have been even higher without all the BS. A claim that is hard to backup given some of the early events (like the cruise ship with 3500 passengers and crew, 700 cases, 7 deaths).
and, yeah, I'm kind of playing devil's advocate...
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How does this sentence make sense?
The ONS also found that there have been more deaths due to COVID-19 than flu in every year since 1929. They noted that 73,766 deaths in 2020 were due to COVID-19, and 67,258 in 2021, while there were 73,212 deaths due to flu in 1929.
You just said there have been more Covid deaths than flu deaths every year since 1929 and in the same sentence you said there were 67,258 Covid deaths in 2021 as opposed to 73,212 flu deaths in 1929.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-deaths-have-outpaced-deaths-from-pneumonia-and-flu#COVID-19,-pneumonia,-and-flu
And another thing:
“Perhaps a better way of comprehending the impact of COVID-19 is to look at total excess deaths,” noted Dr. Cutler, “These are the number of deaths over and above the number anticipated by historical averages. During the past 2 years, the World Health Organization puts this number at 15 million.”
“This is in contrast to the 6 million worldwide deaths currently attributed by individual countries to COVID-19. But even these large numbers do not give a full picture of the impact of COVID-19 and why we need to all take action to reduce the number of infections, serious illnesses as well as deaths,” he added.
So if there are 15 million excess deaths and only 6 million of those are Covid, what caused the other 9 million excess deaths? Might it have been lockdowns? Suicide? Other diseases from a weakened immune system? Riots and rising crime? Fearmongering keeping people from going to the ER when they have chest pain? So why are you saying we need to “take action to reduce the number of infections”? I’m sure you mean more lockdowns, masking and vaccines. But…. Logic implies those are the very things causing the 9 million extra deaths.
Think about it. The number of excess deaths not due to Covid is 33% again greater than the number of deaths caused by Covid itself. Seems pretty clear the cure is worse than the disease.
Editing isn’t just a lost art. It’s a lost profession.
I swear people responsible for publications think spell check is good enough. I’ve never seen so many errors in newspapers, magazines, and particularly online articles than I do today.
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Editing isn’t just a lost art. It’s a lost profession.
I swear people responsible for publications think spell check is good enough. I’ve never seen so many errors in newspapers, magazines, and particularly online articles than I do today.
As a professional editor, I agree. I had engineers tell me, when I asked what they meant by a certain passage, “I’m not sure … I was hoping you could tell me.”
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As a professional editor, I agree. I had engineers tell me, when I asked what they meant by a certain passage, “I’m not sure … I was hoping you could tell me.”
If an engineer isn't sure what they meant, they should be fired.
If one my engineers did that, I would have gotten rid of that engineer in a heartbeat.
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As a professional editor, I agree. I had engineers tell me, when I asked what they meant by a certain passage, “I’m not sure … I was hoping you could tell me.”
Cool! What do you edit, if you don’t mind me asking?
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Maybe they meant after 1929.... as in from 1930 on.
Oh. In that case my bad. I thought I might be missing something.
Some will claim that there are deaths that haven't been counted as a covid death because there weren't enough test kits available (especially early in the pandemic). (for now, let's ignore the deliberate over-counting of covid deaths).
So, if one ASSUMES that all excess deaths can be attributed to covid (of course that is an unsubstantiated claim), than all those "excess" deaths are blamed on covid in one way or another.
edit: Some will probably claim that the covid death toll would have been even higher without all the BS. A claim that is hard to backup given some of the early events (like the cruise ship with 3500 passengers and crew, 700 cases, 7 deaths).
and, yeah, I'm kind of playing devil's advocate...
I don’t think we can ever know the truth. The two biggest problems I see are 1) financial incentives for Covid deaths. This has forever corrupted the data. We can never know how many deaths were attributed to Covid for the sake of money.
2) The flu deaths being so low is attributed to masks and lockdowns but I call bullshit. I think there were actually many more flu deaths, but these were counted as Covid deaths because of false positive Covid tests. Why would masks and lockdowns stop flu but not stop covid?
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Oh. In that case my bad. I thought I might be missing something.
I don’t think we can ever know the truth. The two biggest problems I see are 1) financial incentives for Covid deaths. This has forever corrupted the data. We can never know how many deaths were attributed to Covid for the sake of money.
2) The flu deaths being so low is attributed to masks and lockdowns but I call bullshit. I think there were actually many more flu deaths, but these were counted as Covid deaths because of false positive Covid tests. Why would masks and lockdowns stop flu but not stop covid?
My doctor neighbor and doctor stepdaughter told me (with straight faces) that it is because Covid is more transmissible than flu.
I’m not a doctor, but that “official” answer set off my bullshit detectors blinking double red.
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Cool! What do you edit, if you don’t mind me asking?
Nothing, now! I’m retired. I used to edit reports and speeches and procedures relating to management and analysis of the nuclear waste stored in buried tanks at the Hanford Site in southeast Washington.
Plutonium for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs was produced at Hanford. We have five or six mothballed old reactors still there along the Columbia River that were used for that. Now the focus is on cleanup of the site, no mean feat when you’ve got square miles of land used for nuclear material production and storage during a time when containment technology was quite … rustic.
Occasionally I’d get an interesting document, like the one that modeled what would happen to the old reactors and buried waste at the Hanford Site if Grand Coulee Dam were breached.
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If an engineer isn't sure what they meant, they should be fired.
If one my engineers did that, I would have gotten rid of that engineer in a heartbeat.
Oh but Bob, these were engineers working for a federal contractor. Hahaha, I developed my loathing of anything federal during that time. Massive waste, incompetence and mismanagement. And I realize now, probably plenty of grifting through contract awarding shenanigans. Someone showed me a picture of a contractor’s yacht in Puget Sound called “Change Order 1.”
But on the whole I liked my engineers a lot. We appreciated each other.
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My doctor neighbor and doctor stepdaughter told me (with straight faces) that it is because Covid is more transmissible than flu.
I’m not a doctor, but that “official” answer set off my bullshit detectors blinking double red.
My Doc told me the same thing but he couldn't look me in the eye. Found out later from a nurse that is the 'official' answer medical people will give according to management.
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Nothing, now! I’m retired. I used to edit reports and speeches and procedures relating to management and analysis of the nuclear waste stored in buried tanks at the Hanford Site in southeast Washington.
Plutonium for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs was produced at Hanford. We have five or six mothballed old reactors still there along the Columbia River that were used for that. Now the focus is on cleanup of the site, no mean feat when you’ve got square miles of land used for nuclear material production and storage during a time when containment technology was quite … rustic.
Occasionally I’d get an interesting document, like the one that modeled what would happen to the old reactors and buried waste at the Hanford Site if Grand Coulee Dam were breached.
Very cool!
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2) The flu deaths being so low is attributed to masks and lockdowns but I call bullshit. I think there were actually many more flu deaths, but these were counted as Covid deaths because of false positive Covid tests. Why would masks and lockdowns stop flu but not stop covid?
Perhaps it wasn't the masks, rather the distancing that reduced the transmission of the flu. A of people forget the implications of the "and" when employing methods simultaneously. If you aren't physically close to someone, it's very hard to catch a cold from them, right? doesn't matter if someone is correctly using a good mask or not... Not being in proximity with other people reduces the opportunity to spread the cold and flu.
Another factor is the "reproductive number", written as R0 (r naught). a measure of infection spread. The higher the R0, the more infectious and the more the bug spreads. R0 values less than 1 will burn out. The CDC website had a page (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html) that provided estimates of R0 specifically for planning purposes, with estimates ranging from 2.0 to 4.0 for covid. Elsewhere I've found (I think on cdc.gov) that the flu has an R0 of around 1.1. If I understand correctly, the most infection bug known to Man is the measles with an R0 of around 18 to 19.
With a low R0, it's easier for small improvements in intervention methods to get a lower effective R0, getting it below 1. It's easier to get the flu's effective R0 below 1 than to get covid's effective R0 below 1.
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https://twitter.com/BuckSexton/status/1613992922646515720
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Perhaps it wasn't the masks, rather the distancing that reduced the transmission of the flu. A of people forget the implications of the "and" when employing methods simultaneously. If you aren't physically close to someone, it's very hard to catch a cold from them, right? doesn't matter if someone is correctly using a good mask or not... Not being in proximity with other people reduces the opportunity to spread the cold and flu.
Another factor is the "reproductive number", written as R0 (r naught). a measure of infection spread. The higher the R0, the more infectious and the more the bug spreads. R0 values less than 1 will burn out. The CDC website had a page (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html) that provided estimates of R0 specifically for planning purposes, with estimates ranging from 2.0 to 4.0 for covid. Elsewhere I've found (I think on cdc.gov) that the flu has an R0 of around 1.1. If I understand correctly, the most infection bug known to Man is the measles with an R0 of around 18 to 19.
With a low R0, it's easier for small improvements in intervention methods to get a lower effective R0, getting it below 1. It's easier to get the flu's effective R0 below 1 than to get covid's effective R0 below 1.
Still skeptical. Remember when they quietly retired the PCR test and started using a different kind because they’d been caught out using 40 cycles on the PCR? At that rate they could detect virus fragments from past cases of flu or any other virus a person had had. AND they admitted the PCR could not distinguish between flu and covid.
Color me unconvinced.
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Perhaps it wasn't the masks, rather the distancing that reduced the transmission of the flu. A of people forget the implications of the "and" when employing methods simultaneously. If you aren't physically close to someone, it's very hard to catch a cold from them, right? doesn't matter if someone is correctly using a good mask or not... Not being in proximity with other people reduces the opportunity to spread the cold and flu.
Another factor is the "reproductive number", written as R0 (r naught). a measure of infection spread. The higher the R0, the more infectious and the more the bug spreads. R0 values less than 1 will burn out. The CDC website had a page (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html) that provided estimates of R0 specifically for planning purposes, with estimates ranging from 2.0 to 4.0 for covid. Elsewhere I've found (I think on cdc.gov) that the flu has an R0 of around 1.1. If I understand correctly, the most infection bug known to Man is the measles with an R0 of around 18 to 19.
With a low R0, it's easier for small improvements in intervention methods to get a lower effective R0, getting it below 1. It's easier to get the flu's effective R0 below 1 than to get covid's effective R0 below 1.
Okay that makes sense. I forgot about that R0 stuff.
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Still skeptical. Remember when they quietly retired the PCR test and started using a different kind because they’d been caught out using 40 cycles on the PCR? At that rate they could detect virus fragments from past cases of flu or any other virus a person had had. AND they admitted the PCR could not distinguish between flu and covid.
Color me unconvinced.
That’s true too.