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Messages - Jim Logajan

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2731
Spin Zone / Re: Burning the Flag
« on: December 01, 2016, 03:04:12 PM »
you wrote this pearl of wisdom:

 
 That piece of "just cloth" doesn't mean anything to you (to which no one would be surprised) but to many it is a symbol of our great country.

 My family dates back to the early 1700's in this country. I've had members of my family fight, and some die, in every major war this country has fought including the Revolutionary War. I've traveled the world over my life and have seen where that flag flies the respect it's given, even if on foreign soil.  It's an enduring symbol of prosperity and freedom, not just to Americans but many around the globe.

 But to simpletons such as yourself, it's just a piece of cloth.

That certainly is interesting but pretty much misses the entire point of this thread. You should be careful throwing around insults like "simpleton" since you are acting like one yourself.

Your forebears, along with mine, risked (and sometimes lost) their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to protect principles such as "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech..." and "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

We get to own weapons and you get to use a GIF of a firing handgun while using a nom de guerre as a handle on this forum thanks both to the rules of the forum owner and the overlying government laws and constitution. And yet you get all huffy about someone else exercising their right to burn their American flag. That seems pretty disingenuous.

2732
Spin Zone / Re: Burning the Flag
« on: December 01, 2016, 12:39:11 PM »
No surprise there.

Same with women burning their bras - their cloth to burn.
Same with people burning their books - their paper to burn.

If you want to get angry at any of these - great on you. I think you're being played.

But if they mess with other people's stuff or their lives or physical well being, then I agree that's worth getting angry about and passing laws against (fortunately that is already the case.)

People want to outlaw an action that would otherwise be legal - if it weren't for the symbolism involved - precisely because the idea expressed elicits angry emotions. "Unclear on the concept" of the first amendment comes to mind.

2733
Spin Zone / Re: Burning the Flag
« on: December 01, 2016, 10:46:45 AM »
I must be in a tiny minority when it comes to flag burning: it doesn't elicit any emotion from me at all. It is just cloth to me. There are many other actions that move me emotionally, just not any that come to mind that relate to social or political symbols.

With respect to free speech, such that it exists and can be preserved, I think:

The SCOTUS was right when it ruled flag burning was protected by the first amendment.
It was also right in its first amendment ruling in the Citizens United ruling.

P.S. Supposing flag burning was against the law - would or should a moving GIF image showing a flag burning also be against the law? (Such gif images do exist.)

2734
Spin Zone / Re: FULL VIDEO : Fire in Gatlinburg, GUY DRIVES THRU FIRE
« on: December 01, 2016, 01:08:30 AM »
Sounds like they had no choice but to evacuate through the fire.

2735
Pays to read the comments on those videos, first, before spreading them with incorrect info.

One comment had a link to liveleak.com where the video is longer and described as taking place in Egypt - not Sweden. And the liveleak.com video was posted back in January 2016 with the event claimed  to have occurred on January 12. Weeks after Christmas. So either the Muslims were really tardy in getting their mob properly disorganized, or the video isn't at all what it is claimed to be.

Here's a question for those who think there may be some validity to the attack claim: how many Christmas trees do you know of anywhere that can be climbed by half a dozen people and not topple over or quiver in the slightest? The tree appeared to be built to be climbed.

 I'll post a link to Snopes  last cause they're considered lying liberals by some on here, so this is for the rest: http://www.snopes.com/offended-muslims-attack-christmas-tree/

2736
Spin Zone / Re: The Jill Stein Scam
« on: November 26, 2016, 09:53:12 PM »
But you quoted me.  If your reply was meant for gimp, quote him.  ::)

You asked "Which previous presidents have come out and openly criticized their successors?"
I posted an answer.
Acrogimp was the only one to mention a time span, hence my reference to his post when you claimed a different time span.

2737
Spin Zone / Re: The Jill Stein Scam
« on: November 26, 2016, 04:37:25 PM »
I believe the conversation is about recent presidents in fairly recent history.

Acrogimp wrote "The fact that Obama has already stated he plans to ignore the 240 year tradition of EVERY President before him in terms of allowing the newly elected President to enact his own agenda without criticism or interference ..." so I assumed the same historical span.

2738
Spin Zone / Re: The Jill Stein Scam
« on: November 26, 2016, 04:12:05 PM »
Which previous presidents have come out and openly criticized their successors?

I don't recall LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, GHWB or GWB railing against their successors.  I vaguely recall Clinton making some criticism of Bush, but nothing news worthy.

Lincoln was publicly criticized by some of his predecessors:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/when-lincoln-saved-the-union-and-freed-the-slaves-five-ex-presidents-tried-to-stop-him/2014/06/27/21de5d80-f0ba-11e3-9ebc-2ee6f81ed217_story.html?utm_term=.b690f70d80be

2739
Spin Zone / Re: Happy Thanksgiving!
« on: November 23, 2016, 09:36:35 PM »
Turkeys CAN Fly...

Well some turkeys can't and some can. In the first video we see what happens for those that can't (no doubt couldn't pass their medicals.)  In the second video we see that some turkeys can indeed fly (healthy living, proper flight training.) For the first time we bought a never frozen locally grown Heritage Turkey from a nearby farm this year - we will find out tomorrow how they taste. Definitely more expensive than the mass-produced kind.

Wikipedia entry on heritage turkeys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_turkey






2740
Spin Zone / Happy Thanksgiving!
« on: November 23, 2016, 07:12:50 PM »

2741
Spin Zone / Re: Flow Chart
« on: November 23, 2016, 05:57:30 PM »
So if I vanished, what would the wild speculation about me be?

 :)

Only irritating or outre people who post a lot are noticed missing, so it would take quite a while for you to be missed. Sorry.

Online life seems to emulate real life - when someone dies, the amount of chatter and gossip that occurs afterwords appears to be in proportion to how big a bastard they were. (That assumes the bastard dies first.)

2742
Spin Zone / Re: Flow Chart
« on: November 22, 2016, 12:39:45 PM »
Sure you do - we have a nice house and everything up in DC.

"My car" - it goes in "my garage." I get to use both as I see fit and am held responsible for any use I make of them.
"My house" - I get to live in and use it as I see fit.
"My White House" - I have all the rights and privileges to use it as I would my neighbor's house. Which means in no reasonable sense do I have any personal claims or responsibilities on it. Neither does any other individual U.S. citizen.
"My parent" - Someone who I do NOT get to use as I see fit and am NOT held responsible for their actions.
"My child" - Someone who I do NOT get to use as I see fit (but am allowed some control over,) and AM held responsible for some of their actions.
"My boss/job" - see "My parent".

My first post was meant as a joke on the subtle effects of possessive pronouns  in our perceptions.  I submit that the "Not My President" protesters appear to me to be using "my" in the sense of "my house" or "my car" and NOT in the sense of "my parent" or "my boss/job" because they didn't get the president they chose (as you can your car, house, or boss/job) or because they think the president should do as they see fit (as you can your car, house, or child to some extent.)

2743
Spin Zone / Re: Flow Chart
« on: November 22, 2016, 12:38:05 AM »
I've never owned a president - got no place to put one.

2744
Spin Zone / Re: ACTION!
« on: November 21, 2016, 07:55:22 PM »
TPP is so good Paul Krugman said "there isn't a compelling case for this deal, from either a global or a national point of view."  And it's so good it was negotiated in secrecy. 

 Remember a big piece of legislation that was also developed in secrecy and we were told  "We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It"?

 "Handing China a big win" is pure bullshit.

Are you referring to the same Paul Krugman who wrote, right after the election:

"It really does now look like President Donald J. Trump, and markets are plunging. When might we expect them to recover?

Frankly, I find it hard to care much, even though this is my specialty. The disaster for America and the world has so many aspects that the economic ramifications are way down my list of things to fear.

Still, I guess people want an answer: If the question is when markets will recover, a first-pass answer is never."

2745
Spin Zone / Re: ACTION!
« on: November 21, 2016, 05:46:07 PM »
Trump is with Noam Chomsky and Bernie Sanders in being against the TPP.

The TPP explicitly excluded China and would have reduced China's competitiveness with the co-signers of the agreement.

Trump has already handed China a big win and he hasn't even taken office yet.

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