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Messages - Gary

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1
Spin Zone / Re: The Memo
« on: February 04, 2018, 12:53:16 PM »
The memo outlines that Democrats used a political hit piece in order to justify initiating 100% surveillance of a campaign aide.  that means that him and everyone that he talked to not only were listened to, but also became targets of the surveillance.  The FBI and specifically people with extreme bias against Trump and loyalty to the Democrat party used the FBI's power to listen to everything that was happening in the Republican campaign.

If you're ok with that, then you're also ok with Republicans do the same in the midterms?

Why would I (or anyone else) be in favor of political spying by the FBI??  US Government surveillance of any US citizen is pretty serious stuff.  The bar to do so has to be very high.  That is the purpose of the FISA court.  The government prepares the case and the judge then decides if it is warranted.  In this particular case the judge did deem it appropriate.  None of us in the general public really has the facts as to why that happened. Could opposition research by a political party be part of that justification?  That could be the case, it is up to the FISA judge to evaluate the merits.  What the Nunes memo implies is that the only reason the FISA warrant was issued was the Steele documents and was done soley to discredit the President. From what we do know, that doesn't appear to be the case. Other than Mr. Nunes opinion, he gives scant detail to back it up, if Mr. Nunes has true evidence, why didn't he put it in the memo?  The surveillance order was renewed multiple times, most recently by people appointed by the current administration.  If there was some evidence of illegal activity by the FBI, why was it renewed?

Did the FISA order have limits?  Again, that isn't known, we do not know if the surveillance was limited to Page, or included any other contacts he may of had.  There is no information that the FBI had the ability to listen in on everything happening in the Republican campaign.

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Spin Zone / Re: The Memo
« on: February 03, 2018, 03:21:30 PM »
James Comey summed up the Nunes memo the best -  “That’s it!??”

We were warned ahead of time that this would either be the greatest scandal since Watergate (per Steve King) or a collection of cherry picked incoherent facts (per Adam Schiff) which will destroy our national security.  It is neither.  Pretty much political drama.

The Nunes memo neither exonerates nor implicates the President.  It is all about surveillance of Carter Page, a person already on the FBI interest list.

It is rather fun to watch the President and his supporters do cartwheels and all kinds of mental gyrations to make this a huge deal and take the stretch that this nullifies the Mueller investigations.   The President himself has proclaimed that the Nunes memo:

“This memo totally vindicates “Trump” in probe. But the Russian Witch Hunt goes on and on. Their was no Collusion and there was no Obstruction (the word now used because, after one year of looking endlessly and finding NOTHING, collusion is dead). This is an American disgrace!”

The key point of the Nunes memo is that the FBI used the Steele documents without informing the FISA court that they were prepared by a political party and the veracity of the documents was in doubt.  Nunes provides no evidence of this other than his opinion, Nunes did not even look at the underlying data, although Trey Gowdy did and had this to say:

“As I have said repeatedly, I also remain 100 percent confident in Special Counsel Robert Mueller. The contents of this memo do not - in any way - discredit his investigation.”

Without actually seeing the FISA application and the discussions that went into granting it, it is impossible to tell if this claim of “bias” is true or not or whether the surveillance would have been granted in any case.  I have no idea if the rules of a FISA application allows for the use of information that has a political bias or is otherwise un-verified.  It does seem that the Steele documents were not the sole basis for granting the FISA surveillance, but even that is unproven.  Lacking some hard evidence that the FBI did something illegal or woefully un-ethical, the Nunes memo is short on fact and long on speculation.

One thing the Nunes memo does clarify is that the FBI investigation was not the result of the Steele documents, that investigation was already underway courtesy of George Papadopoulos.

So, let’s see it all, the Democratic response, the FISA application (properly redacted) and the full transcripts of the proceedings.

3
Spin Zone / Re: Thoughts on health care in the US.
« on: June 27, 2017, 05:23:29 PM »
You guys are always saying the"rich" don't pay their fair share. Just wondering if you've seen the talking points that have a hard number as to what is "fair."

Who are "you guys"?  You appear to assume that I'm one of those far left progressive kooks.  My opinions are certainly further left than yours, but that leaves a lot of space.

Sure, seen the "fair share" talking points.  That's as vague as "living wage" or "market based solutions".  Sounds good, appeals to the base but impossible to quantify.

4
Spin Zone / Re: Thoughts on health care in the US.
« on: June 24, 2017, 03:21:15 PM »
I've spent a fair amount of time struggling with the social, and societal issues surrounding private health care, and public(economic) policy on health care. I'm mostly a radical anarchist when it comes to govt, and I bend some and call myself a Libertarian for the most part. There are a couple of things that govt does moderately well, and many, many, many things that govt does an average job, and still plenty of things that govt does poorly.

A reasonable position to take.

First I can say honestly I don't have an answer. We all know someone who has health challenges that cause misery and grief and hope that they can be taken care of. But - as with anything, it's a matter of priorities. Here's the clause from the constitution that covers these kinds of things: 'provide for the common defense and general welfare'. It is called the 'general welfare clause'. What did it mean when it was written and what does it mean now? Since this is an open ended question and there is no one answer, we have to look to politics to solve it. Politics - is like sausage. People like the finished product, but no one wants to know how it's made. The left wants everything, all the time, for all people with no limits, and no requirement to invest in the sausage making. The money should come from high taxes, and be distributed 'fairly' as needs arise. Well, guess what? Whenever there's a big fat pile of tax money sitting in the bank, everyone suddenly has this great NEED for it. This applies in spades to health care money. No matter how much is piled into medicare, it always runs short. Gee? What a surprise(not). You can never, ever give away enough money to people. No one, on any planet, in any system will stop taking money if offered, or available. This too - applies to health care in spades.

Don't disagree with most of this.  Will quibble with the position that the "left" wants everything, all the time.  From my view the "left" and the "right" are more than willing to feed off the public teat, they just want to spend it on different things.

Want an abortion? Well, did the govt impregnate you? No. So, why do you think it's all right for the govt to pay for your abortion.

Can you provide a verifiable example of government funds going to abortion for convenience?  Might want to start with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment

Now, having said that, this is the ONE exception that I will gladly pay for with one caveat. If the govt is going to pay for your abortion then you MUST also get permanent conception prevention of some kind(tubal ligation, etc).

Are you also in favor of Federal funding of birth control to minimize the rate of abortions?  Personally believe government should neither promote nor prohibit abortion.  It is such an emotional and personal decision that government should play no role.

 
about the OPs situation with CP? Well, I have a relative with moderate CP. He's 71 years old. He has never been given a dime of assistance for his CP. CP has been around since the dawn of mankind, why should the collective now, in this century be responsible for their care? Have we solved world peace? Have we paid ALL the other bills of the govt that are overdue? Is the nation and world other pressing common problems all taken care of that we can now focus on individuals? These are not rhetorical questions. At what time do we set the individual or family problems ahead of issues and problems that affect ALL US citizens? This is what was meant by the 'common defense and general welfare'. Those issues that rise to the national level of interest that it will be beneficial for all citizens, not just a small minority. Roads = common welfare. Schools = common welfare. Fire equipment = common welfare. Air Traffic Control = common welfare. See a theme here? How does one or ten, or 50,000 with CP in a nation of 3.2 million rate or rank? Sorry, I think you see where this is headed.

I do agree with your premise of "common welfare" and the examples you show.  Not so clear as why you believe that the health of our citizens isn't part of that.

The constitution rights question. The constitution lays out specific rights for protection. Does that mean that this is the limit of those rights, and that any other rights are excluded? Are there rights that are not written but should be considered automatic, and presumed applicable? Like - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Note it says 'pursuit of' happiness. Not the 'guarantee of happiness'. If happiness is being treated for CP, and getting the most out of your life with the disability, then fine - go forth and pursue. If you need help from someone, ask family, ask neighbors, ask church, ask the public. But - this is a far, far cry from taking from those more fortunate and giving to those less fortunate by FORCE(don't pay taxes, and go to prison).

Wish I could offer you more money, but if I pay for you, then I pay for them, and then the other guys, and by the time we're all done - the few are paying all the health bills for the many. Won't work.

Taxes are a necessity of a civilized society, no way around it.  You may believe it is being taken from you by force, but there isn't a way around it.  Funny how the argument usually boils down to dollars - generally follows the line that someone is getting something for free and I'm paying for it, and I don't like it.  Wish we could all pick and choose what our tax dollars go for, most likely the services provided by our government would be quite different.

5
Ok, a lot to discuss here,  I'll try to hit it all. 

Big Snip


Excellent post!  Actually agree with a large measure of what you said.  We may differ on how to solve the problems.  ;)

6
Spin Zone / Re: Texas Woman Gets 8 Years For Illegal Voting
« on: February 11, 2017, 05:08:28 PM »
Don't know of a single  person that has said no voting fraud occurs.  Any system will have fraud, there just isn't a perfect system.  That being said, all the evidence that exists confirms that the rate of voting fraud is so low to be barely measurable.

So.. this tread has identified 3 instances of voting fraud.  Keep those examples coming until we hit the 3 million... I'll wait.  ;)

7
Spin Zone / Re: Are liberals right? No significant voting fraud?
« on: January 27, 2017, 01:38:14 PM »
If the President wants to launch an investigation, I'm all for it.  Set up a neutral team, and have at it.  In the big scheme of things the cost will barely register, and the results useful.

8
Spin Zone / Re: 20000
« on: January 25, 2017, 09:37:31 AM »
Yep.  Trump is continuing Obama's tradition of making the rich, richer.

LOL!  That tradition predates Obama by a wide margin.

The difference is that Trump will also be making the poor less poor and more self reliant.

We shall see....

9
Spin Zone / Re: Inauguration Day
« on: January 20, 2017, 04:17:41 PM »
Congratulations to all of the Trump supporters!  Hope y'all enjoy the celebrations on this Inauguration Day.

Also hope that today is not the high-water mark of President Trumps administration.

10
Spin Zone / Re: Trump won states having 55% of the population.
« on: January 12, 2017, 09:26:07 AM »
With so many on the Left talking about popular vote, I've heard some express the idea that apportioning the EVs according to the popular vote breakdown in each state was a good idea - for example, Hillary won 59% of the vote in New York, so she should get 59% of the 29 votes, rounded to 17 votes.  Trump would get the other 12.  So if that happened, what would the EV count have been?

There is a non-obvious rounding problem due to the small party candidates, sometimes rounding would not apportion all the votes.  And I think it's a silly idea, more denial from Hillary supporters so I haven't really gone forward.

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.270towin.com/news/2016/12/22/2016-alternate-electoral-methods-a-preliminary-look_437.html#.WHetDMv2bcs

The President elect still wins, the margin just gets narrower.

11
Spin Zone / Re: DNC emails exposed
« on: December 21, 2016, 02:38:12 PM »
Gary, this was lifted from the 100 wikileaks link, I should have noted that.  It is copied and pasted.

Ok - Thanks.  Didn't think they were your words (you write much better than that  ;) )

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Spin Zone / Re: No Desire to Date......Because Trump
« on: December 08, 2016, 05:13:03 PM »
That is one weird lady...  Not much else to say.

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Spin Zone / Re: This just in!
« on: November 16, 2016, 10:52:26 AM »
I thought that "breaking news" about DJT going out to dinner was a joke! But no! We really need the ROTFLMAO smiley.

"Trump ditches media - the peoples' eyes and ears - again."


http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/11/trump-goes-out-to-dinner-press-has-hissy-fit.php

Actually, having the President-elect ditching the media for dinner is kinda cool!  More power to him.

14
Spin Zone / Re: Not even inaugurated yet, he makes great deals for USA!
« on: November 10, 2016, 07:08:55 PM »
The Democrats. 8)

LOL!  Perhaps shared with Mexico? :D

15
Spin Zone / Re: Rigged Voting Machines In Texas?
« on: October 25, 2016, 01:32:10 PM »
http://www.snopes.com/texas-vote-switching/

Snopes is a vile, leftist, fact-twisting site - not to be trusted!  ;)

Since voting is handled by the local county/municipality, which in Texas, are likely Republican and all of these "reports" seem to be on social media, I'd like more information before making a judgment.

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