Becky, that is real sophistry. You are projecting what you want to be true because he’s a threat to Trump. I see this on pro-Trump sites all the time, with facts not in evidence. Yet you are talking about one of the founders of the House Freedom Caucus.  You are talking about THE MAN who turned Florida from purple to red.  You’re talking about the person who took on the woke mob, took on the Militaristic Education Complex, took on Disney, and took on voter integrity - all things Trump has never even tried to do.

If there are people on the RINO side who like DeSantis, they are doing so because he’s the only viable Republican candidate who would have a chance to defeat Trump. So what?  Don’t play the democrats guilt by association game. Trump rejected it when David Duke endorsed him and the democrats jumped on that, and you should reject it too.

I'm on the fence Stan, but I'm leaning towards Becky's and Lucifers stance. I just don't trust the GOP anymore.  They hated that Trump got the nomination and won.  That's documented.

Becky, that is real sophistry. You are projecting what you want to be true because he’s a threat to Trump. I see this on pro-Trump sites all the time, with facts not in evidence. Yet you are talking about one of the founders of the House Freedom Caucus.  You are talking about THE MAN who turned Florida from purple to red.  You’re talking about the person who took on the woke mob, took on the Militaristic Education Complex, took on Disney, and took on voter integrity - all things Trump has never even tried to do.

If there are people on the RINO side who like DeSantis, they are doing so because he’s the only viable Republican candidate who would have a chance to defeat Trump. So what?  Don’t play the democrats guilt by association game. Trump rejected it when David Duke endorsed him and the democrats jumped on that, and you should reject it too.

Stan, with all due respect, I find no comfort in “what I want to be true.” I’m no Trumpophile, just a realist. In fact, I emphatically want it to be true that “someone out there” will secure our elections. But election fraud is targeted and efficient now, elections are controlled by the Uniparty and their spook puppeteers, and you know it and have said so. An epic landslide was overcome with cheating. No Republican can be elected ever again until it’s fixed.

I don’t dismiss anything useful and patriotic that DeSantis has done. But I continue to believe, as we see with his tepid response to the indictment, that he will not stand up to the regime and expose its corruption, ever. And we need someone who will, in or out of the White House. And we need millions to unite in the cause of restoring fair elections and ousting traitorous players. Really, it’s on all of us, and I see you pinning hopes on DeSantis that never can come to fruition in the way you wish.

"If Trump strokes out".
It is a distinct possibility that this, or something worse, may happen in then next 5 or 6 years.
Alphas, especially older ones,  have more heart attacks and strokes, and Presidents (and Presidential candidates) have a lot of stress.

I’m not going to not vote for him just because he might stroke out while in office. That’s what a VP is for.

It was a blatant message.  Testify about weaponizing the feds and we will openly weaponize the feds against you.  What are you gonna do about it? 

And the Republicans will do nothing.

Do you deny Trump 2023 is different than Trump 2016? 

I don't see how he's different.  Please enlighten me on how he has changed -- not your perspective of him, but how he has actually changed.

I campaigned for Cruz in 2016, and Cruz won Wisconsin.

So did I, but I'm glad he didn't win.

I campaigned for Trump in 2016.

Ditto.

I campaigned for Trump in 2020.

Ditto.

I now think Trump is damaged goods, and while he will lock up the 1/3rd that are GOP faithful, he will not get the middle third, who probably don’t want to back a guy who is living in the past, obsessing with 2020 and ignoring 2024-2028.

I'm obsessed with 2020.  Do you not grasp the significance and impact of having an election stolen?  And it was stolen.


I also want a guy who can give me two back-to-back terms, and who is a successful conservative governor who turned a purple state red.

Trump gave you back-to-back terms, one of which was stolen by the establishment.

But I think if he does get the nomination, it guarantees a D will win.

That's exactly what the talking heads said in 2016.

A "D" will win no matter who the "R's" nominate because the "R's" still refuse to openly acknowledge voter fraud as they're a part of it; because they've found they can benefit from and increase their power from that fraud.

We have been betrayed.

You’re going to play that card?  I thought we were past that. Locker room talk.  And he was talking about adults.  Trump is in his 70s.  His day was back when we didn’t have the lunacy of needing to get verbal permission before making a pass at a woman.  It was normal to do what he said.  (In the context of already making out - not just walking past you on the street.)  I’ve had guys do that back in the day and my reaction was to simply tell them to piss off which they did.  I didn’t see it as sexual assault and get all traumatized.  If they didn’t leave off, then that would have been sexual assault.  Trump’s comment made it clear these women were consenting if not inviting.

Well of course. This is such a tired trope, and it’s where the ridiculous “pussy” hats came from. Probably millions of shocked liberal women learned to knit those just so they could scream about a normal alpha male saying he “can” do something, not that he DID something.

In other conversations, which the media doesn’t show, President Trump has talked about the women who literally trailed around trying to catch his eye. “Gold diggers” is the euphemism but “star fuckers” is the trade name.

Going nuclear with shock over alpha male behavior just leads to gammas, betas, grifters and cheaters taking over the country. As we see happening.

Liz Cheney is definitely worse than any Democrat.  If she were a D then people would just listen to her BS and realize that of course a D will do and say those things about Trump.  But when an R says and does those things, Ds and Is and even many Rs will say "Oh shit!  If an R says it about another R, it must be true".  This is one of the main reasons that Trump is so damaged and cannot/will not ever win another general election and why we must find another candidate that CAN win.

But it's not all Liz's fault.  I know libs that would vote for a Republican that they perceive to be honest over Biden.  That is NOT Trump.  And it's not all Liz Cheney's fault and it not all due to cheating.

Trump didn't just SAY pussy, he said that when you are a star you can grab them by the pussy. 
I doubt even Rush or Becky would agree with that statement, at it stands.
And he sounds an awful lot like Uncle Joe with the kissing remark.

You’re going to play that card?  I thought we were past that. Locker room talk.  And he was talking about adults.  Trump is in his 70s.  His day was back when we didn’t have the lunacy of needing to get verbal permission before making a pass at a woman.  It was normal to do what he said.  (In the context of already making out - not just walking past you on the street.)  I’ve had guys do that back in the day and my reaction was to simply tell them to piss off which they did.  I didn’t see it as sexual assault and get all traumatized.  If they didn’t leave off, then that would have been sexual assault.  Trump’s comment made it clear these women were consenting if not inviting.